How many of us feel bad about the reputation that the Pittbull now has? Not to mention all of the other harder to handle breeds who become a danger to people... Don't you think it would be a better idea if we were MORE SELECTIVE over who gets to acquire and raise harder to handle dogs? It would be so much more safe knowing that one had to work to acquire a licence to raise that Rotty you see walking toward you... because you know that the owner/handler has an education... you know you don't have to worry for the safety of your child next to you... The luxury of knowing that it's been "taken care of" would make for such a calmer society around people who have dogs that have a reputation.

I'm not talking about the poorly trained Poodle or misbehaving Maltese who's under trained out of control and/or nippy... this too is an issue of sorts, but cannot compare to the mass fear and destruction that an aggressive Pitt or riled up Rotty can accomplish.

We need to remember that not all people love/like dogs. We live in this world and share space w/ people who don't share the love. Every one of us that has a dog are setting an example for the next. We have the capasity to ruin it... if we don't set a proper example, (for even something like picking up after a dog eliminates... ). For every dog owner that "blows it" you are setting up the next dog owner to suffer your irresponsibility.

Right now, in Alberta, there are many restrictions for the so called "dangerous breeds". You have to register a pitbull with the RCMP, pay a hefty licensing fee and many other things in order to own a dog of this breed.

I myself am not a pitbull person, I have nothing against the breed itself, it simply doesn't fit into my lifestyle.

Yes there are a lot of pitbull attacks, mainly because of poor training on the owners part, or poor housing (not locking them into a secure fenced yard). But the reason we hear about the pit attacks is because, when they do attack, they do a lot of damage. They have powerful jaws, a powerful damaging bite.

I'm sure that there are just as many attacks by other breeds, but let's face it, if a teacup poodle attacks, it isn't going to do as much damage as a larger dog would.

I have two big dogs, lab crosses. One is a rescue, he was an abused dog when we got him. I trust him with my kids and family, he's never given me a reason not to, but I still keep an eye out. I know that he is capable of biting, all dogs are, to turn my back and think that everything will always be okay, well that's negligent. I've also trained my kids, yes, my kids, on how to behave with dogs, the does and don'ts, the things that will provoke an attack. They do not approach strange dogs, they know better.

Bottom line, pitbulls have gotten a bad rap, and I agree with SweetDee, there should be restrictions, tests, a special license that needs to be obtained before you are allowed to own a pitbull.

I fully agree w/ you Altenweg. We agree then...

It's not enough to have to pay a hefty fee for licencing w/ the RCMP, right? The whole point is to get licencing BECAUSE you've succeeded a training course... :(

How many of us feel bad about the reputation that the Pittbull now has? Not to mention all of the other harder to handle breeds who become a danger to people... Don't you think it would be a better idea if we were MORE SELECTIVE over who gets to aquire and raise harder to handle dogs? It would be so much more safe knowing that one had to work to aquire a licence to raise that Rotty you see walking toward you...because you know that the owner/handler has an education...you know you don't have to worry for the safety of your child next to you... The luxury of knowing that it's been "taken care of" would make for such a calmer society around people who have dogs that have a reputation.

I'm not talking about the poorly trained Poodle or misbehaving Maltese who's under trained out of control and/or nippy...this too is an issue of sorts, but cannot compare to the mass fear and distruction that an aggressive Pitt or riled up Rotty can accomplish.

I disagree with this in part. There is no reason to not extend those requirements to all would-be dog owners. Labs can kill. A baby was killed by a chihuahua. And, even if the small dogs don't generally kill people, they do bite... a lot. And I do not enjoy taking my dog on a walk and having to fend off attacks from poorly trained pugs and other small dogs.

Plus it gets rid of that entire problem of classifying "dangerous breeds". Sure, most people will agree on pits, rotties, and dobies. What about GSDs, huskies, mastiffs, bulldogs, akitas, rhodesian ridgebacks, and chows? Or a pit/lab mix? Does that one get included because of the pit part, or excluded because of the lab part? Or the collies, which are dogs that bite a lot of kids because of their herding instincts? And what happens when someone moves in with a dog that is not on the list because no one ever had one before in the area? Making it apply to all dogs makes life a lot easier, and prevents some of the legal challenges you will get otherwise.

That's a good step SweetDee.

My only concern, is the dogs. There are already so many restrictions that a lot of these dogs are being put to sleep because no one wants to go through the extra costs and licensing in order to get one.

If we add yet another restriction, another cost, what will happen to these dogs?

I do think it's necessary, I do think it's a very good idea, I just hope that if something like this were put into place, that the dogs wouldn't be the ones to suffer because of it.

Personally, I think all potential dog owners should take a course, regardless of the breed. Too many people get dogs on impulse. The cute little puppy at the pet store that later pees all over your house and rips up all your furniture, then ends up at the shelter at 1 year of age, with a troubled past and many restrictions.

I am a big advocate of rescuiing dogs from the shelter, but even that has become too restricting. In order for me to get an older dog, I have to meet their specific criteria. Most times it's "no kids under 16 years of age, no other animals in the home". My kids are 10 and 6, but they aren't the typical pull the dogs ears, jump on them kids. They've both been raised with dogs and many other animals, they know how to behave around dogs. I don't think it is fair to judge an entire age group.

I am an experienced dog owner, I do not make impulse decisions when it comes to adopting a pet. If I do adopt a pet, then it's for life. I am willing to go the extra mile and pay the extra expense in order to meld that pet into our family.

Froggy7, you make some AWESOME points as usual... hence the reasoning behind this debate.

Perhaps getting a licence to own a dog is in order, PERIOD! Forget only having certain breeds be a reason behind getting schooled and licenced... I say YES to that conclusively!

Altenweg, if everyone could be as responsible a family and you and yours are toward your canine companion... I believe that shelters would be out of business. What a dream..

The way I see it is all dogs have a breaking point or limits, I believe to respect a dog is to know those limitations.
When I see people in town with dogs that are wearing muzzles, I don'T think oh well they must be aggressive they should be put down, I think good on the owners for protecting others as well as there dogs.

I disagree with this in part. There is no reason to not extend those requirements to all would-be dog owners. Labs can kill. A baby was killed by a chihuahua. And, even if the small dogs don't generally kill people, they do bite... a lot. And I do not enjoy taking my dog on a walk and having to fend off attacks from poorly trained pugs and other small dogs.
Making it apply to all dogs makes life a lot easier, and prevents some of the legal challenges you will get otherwise.



I completely agree. I have a rescue dog that is a pitmix. She has to be the sweetest girl yet the biggest wuss I have ever seen.

My mother in law has three dachsunds (sp?). She and her three dogs (she insisted they HAD to come) stayed at our house for Christmas last year. Well I also hada cat. Well the day before Christmas Eve I get home from Christmas shopping and I get the news that HER small wiennie dogs KILLED my cat. They slaughtered her. This woman has zero control over her dogs, she does not know how to handle them. People think it is cute when they bark or show teeth because they are so small. They think "oh how cute they are, they think they're big and tough" well they are far more viscious then my pitmix. My pitmix loved my cat and was so depressed when she realized my cat was gone.

When it comes down to it, it is the owner and how they raise and control their dogs. My pitmix has been loved, socialized, disciplined the way she should, trained the way she should, knows her boundaries, I don't put her in situations that can get her into trouble, yet look at my mother in laws dogs. Three small little dachsunds are way more dangerous then my pit. I have seen her dachsunds snip, growl, bite, attack, constantly. To her it is funny and "cute" because they are small. I love my mother in law dearly, but she is nowhere near a responsible pet owner and I do not think she should have any until she can learn to control them and handle them. I get so worried leaving my son with her because of her dogs. My mother in law was so shocked when I told her I trust my pitmix with my son way more then I trust her dogs. She tells me "what can my little dogs do to him?"

So it should not only be done with those owners of "dangerous" breeds, but with ALL owners.

I've never understood why it was the DOG that had to have a license and not the OWNER.

I agree with everyone.

As for the dachshund breed, they were originally bred to hunt. Their short stature and long body made them perfect for getting into tight places. They were also kept as rat killers for a very long time. You cannot get rid of instinct. Many people think that because they are a small breed that they are not dangerous. Dachshunds are one of the most vicious breeds, we just don't hear about it because they don't do a lot of damage when they attack a human, but the do kill other animals and are not a good breed to have with kids.

All owners should have a license, it would cut down on impulse buying and then the shelters wouldn't be as full. I also think that owners should have to sign a contract stating that they promise to keep and care for the pet for its entire lifespan, unless unforseen circumstances arise (allergies, losing a job and no longer able to afford to care for pet etc.) Even then, I think that the pet owner should do everything in their power to find the pet a home before relinquishing it to the shelter.

My oldest dog is now 13 years old, he's at the stage in his life when his vet bills are outlandish, meds for arthritis, epilepsy, you name it. He's almost completely blind, and deaf. He's my first baby, my big suck, and I will do everything I can to make his remaining time comfortable. My pets are forever, I've never given up a pet and I never will. It's training and care, love and understanding the nature of the animal you bring into your home.

A licence requirement is all it would take to change the world for these animals.

Of course, the problem with solutions like this is the details. Who do you test, what do you test for, and how do you test?

Do you make the requirement retroactive? What about someone who moves into the town? If you do that, are you prepared to handle the people who flunk the test? What will happen to their dogs?

Next.. we're talking living creatures here, not machines. It's one thing to learn that "red light means stop" and "steer into a spin". But if you have a dog that is snapping, you have to determine whether it's dominance issues, fear aggression, resource guarding, dog aggression, or a herding breed that is trying to deal with an unruly flock of children. Because how you handle that issue is going to depend on the cause of it. And even then, if you ask three trainers how to handle the situation, you will get four answers. Any one of which may be right for that particular dog.

And finally... how would you do the test? You may ask them to pass a written test (which is going to have to be very general, even on the basics, since something as simple as "how much should you feed your dog" is going to depend on breed). But that doesn't really tell you how the person is going to react under real-life conditions. You would probably want some sort of "road test"... but where do you get the dogs to do that? And does it really tell you anything to give someone a friendly dog and see how they handle it? On the other hand, I doubt that giving someone a strongly dog-aggressive dog and asking them to handle the dog around other dogs is going to be a good idea. (Much the same way that we don't ask drivers to slam on their brakes on an icy course to see how they handle extreme driving conditions.)

So... good in theory. And exactly the kind of things that people who breed dogs should be asking the people who buy their puppies. But I wouldn't hold my breath on seeing this ever get enacted as a law.

Froggy7... ALL very good points made. Especially your last comment.

It's a pipe dream to require people to take responsibility for their pets and have them required to be tested and registered as a licenced dog owner.

Labs can kill.

I'm not saying they can't but when I read that I just imagined my old black lab, Mollie, trying to pull her head back when my brother and I would play with her because she didn't want our hands or arms anywhere near her mouth where she could accidentally bite. I know we were the owners but she would never bite anyone. We took her through a lot of training though and I couldn't have asked for a better companion.

I have a neighbor not too far from us whom has a golden lab and they keep that dog fenced in the HIGHEST fence money can buy... due to how dangerous she is. But get this... their two Dobermans are enclosed in another area on their land where there is hardly a fence at all, I mean they could easily crawl below to get out... and ANYONE can touch them over the fence. These dogs aren't safe either, but the lab is a DANGER... lol!!

In my option
We can ever fully trust a Dog we educate and love them like they are humans but the truth is they are dogs and we do not know what they are thinking all the time
Some of the grass roots truth about dogs
We are ever fully in contol unless the dog is on a leach if then?
Ever leave any young child alone with a animal -- any animal
There is always the first Time that anything can happen
I agree we are at fault mostly the breeders or so called breeders
In general - I find interest that mankind is always setting new limits or controls , learning new ways and standards - pitting one against the other .
Life should not be so difficult

I saw a documentary the other day about how white tigers are bred in captivity SPECIFICALLY to create animal movie stars... so the "industry" can have these cool cats make their movie's more life like...

EVEN then the "handlers" have to work within the guidelines of the actual cat and it's instincts rather than reorganize and restructure the animal to suit our own personal needs. It's simply IMPOSSIBLE.

Now these cats are WILD animals. With domesticated dogs it's a little different, however we still need to work within the guidelines of their insticts and animal needs in order to make US pack leader.

Life is only difficult because we humans control it, as beings that are on top of the food chain.

You know how people have been saying about children just running up and petting or hugging dogs, well today in town a woman came over and just started petting rex I couldn't believe it.

I will admit that I am guilty of that. If the owner is around I try and ask first. But if they aren't, then I will study a dog and try and gauge its body language. If it seems friendly, I will approach and see if the dog wants to be petted (put out a hand, see if the dog comes over or just ignores it, etc.) But I am an adult, and thus know the risks that I am running. A lot of the time I just talk to them a little... especially if they are in a truck bed. Don't care how friendly they seem then... I don't want to run into a dog that is territorial.

I don't mind people petting my dog, and often I will ask them if they would like to, however the reason I was untrusting of this lady was because when my mom parked the car(in a handicapped space because of her disability) the car parked next to it had an american eskimo dog in it and it barked at us non stop, and even when the owner came out she never disciplinned it she only laughed and said it was cute, and then came over and said to my dog oh you're the reason she's been barking I clearly did not find it cute, as it looked like it was hungry. How can owners of dogs sit there and watch as their dog barks at someone?

And would we require high fees for dog owners to test and register? Does plenty of expendable income make for a good dog owner? Or does someone who skimps on groceries for a year to afford a vet account and the testing fee a "better" owner? Is requiring the owner to be more responsible a bent towards socialism?

I agree with everyone, especially Synnen. A human who becomes the caregiver for an animal should be the one who is licensed. I have birds, dogs and cats. Domesticity upon contact with others is something to test for. If an animal or their human fails the test do we charge them a fine? Do we require them to take a class?

You know how people have been saying about children just running up and petting or hugging dogs, well today in town a woman came over and just started petting rex I couldn't believe it.

Parents should know better. You know that rex is an angel, but they don't. And you never know how a dog could react if it's being spooked or lunged on by a kid who's squealing with delight.

We have a neighbor with a 4 year old who's a terror. She squeals and squeals and squeals at my puppy, trying to run around him and pat his head and so on while her mother just stands there. I want to tell her to calm her kid down, but I don't know how to do that without being rude about it. For now, I just avoid them as much as I can.

My pup is as sweet as honey with everybody, and he is especially sweet with children. But I can't get over how many people I don't know have come up to us and in a split second literally picked him up. Even worse, two different people have tried picking him up by grabbing his two front legs. My puppy let out a cry, and I just wanted to slap them. I cannot possibly express how protective I feel of my little puppy. He's a baby! I don't want people I don't know handling him like that, period.

I want to tell him that he bites. I want to tell them not to touch him. Who are these people? I live in a neighborhood in a city where everyone knows someone who knows someone who knows you. So I can't be overly rude because it would come back to haunt me. But I'm not going up to someone else's dog without asking them the right questions first. If it's a puppy, it's likely in training, too. I'm trying to teach my puppy to pee in the right place, and people are literally putting their hands in his mouth. I want him to learn to pee at the right time, and I don't want him to learn that putting his teeth on people is okay.

I know what you mean when you say''I wanted to tell them he bites'' Actuall I've tried this a few times before once with a girl running by on the road, and she seemed so hyper so when she asked to pet him I said no he might bite and my cousin said, oh yeah he'll rip your arm off, and do you know what the girl(who was I'd guess 18) said well I got three rotties at home I'm used to it and patted him anyway, I couldn't believe it.

It truly amazes me how some people act. And I do have to watch some people, who want to pet him, because all the dogs we've had growing up were put down(because of aggression issues) I am very protective of what energy gets to approach him. I know the odds of him biting someone are pretty low but , some people are really freaky and even freak me out and he picks up on the fact that I am afraid and goes into protective mode, this has never happened with a person accept for when my father is drinking, or if people are fighting around me.

And one time when I was walking I was litterly chased by a 100 pound german shepherd. And its not that rex doesn't like dogs, but he prefers human company and before he used to bark at other dogs but with a bit of work he got over that, he can now walk by other dogs with little reaction. And so the next day when I went for a walk I see this guy coming with his dog and sure enough it was the shepherd that had chased me on the previous day, he crosses the road and asks if I want our dogs to '' meet '' and all I can think is ''are you crazy'' so I just say no thanks, my dogs a bit protective and keep walking. He looks almost hurt as we keep going.

Quite frankly... and no one be upset that I'm putting this out there, please...

We as dog owners ALL have the responsibility to make the dog we have human friendly. We are responsible to our neighbors and their safetly FIRST. We may not like them.. or we may not like people even, but we are all human and we have no choice but to stand side by each as a united "thing"... the government will even inforce that by making dog owner accountable for their misbehaved dogs. I, personally prefer dogs to people. It's not an option tho', in the land that we live.

No matter whether an adult or child approaches our pets and pats them w/out notice or preparation... we have to make sure our dogs are "proofed" and safe around humans. I don't agree w/ some kids picking up our pups... but in the case that it DOES happen we need to know that our dog won't bite, no matter WHAT!

I am NOT trying to be difficult, I agree w/ Rex123 and Linnealand about everything they FEEL, but we have to make sure that our dogs are safely never going to be taken away from us because they're a danger OR that they pose a risk of hurting any child or adult just because we don't want to hurt people even by mistake.

We OWE it to our OWN KIND to make sure they are safe... and also to the dog we've grown to love. We don't want to risk losing them...

Quite frankly...and no one be upset that I'm putting this out there, please...

We as dog owners ALL have the responsibility to make the dog we have human friendly. We are responsible to our neighbors and their safetly FIRST. We may not like them..or we may not like people even, but we are all human and we have no choice but to stand side by each as a united "thing"...the government will even inforce that by making dog owner accountable for their misbehaved dogs. I, personally prefer dogs to people. It's not an option tho', in the land that we live.

No matter whether an adult or child approaches our pets and pats them w/out notice or preparation...we have to make sure our dogs are "proofed" and safe around humans. I don't agree w/ some kids going ahead and picking up our pups...but in the case that it DOES happen we need to know that our dog won't bite, no matter WHAT!

This is impossible. You cannot ever be 100% sure that a dog will never bite anyone. In fact, to be safe you should be 100% sure that they will, if the situation is right, bite. They are living beings, and they have quirks. Think of it this way... I am generally a very calm, reasonable person, able to keep my head under most situations. But there are those days when enough things have gone wrong that I will just snap at someone for something that I can normally shrug off and walk away from. Our dogs are the same way. Why should I expect more from my dog than I know that I, a rational, sentient being, am able of? For example, lets say you have a doxie that is starting to get back problems, and some kid comes running over and picks him up before you can stop him, causing the dog excruciating pain. Do you really expect the dog not to bite the kid in response? Or a dog that has been giving every "leave me alone" signal that it can (turning its back, walking away, drawing up tall and stiff) to not escalate to a nip if the kid doesn't respect those previous signals? Our job as owners is to prevent the situation getting out of hand, but that can mean telling people "no, you can't pet the dog... and please keep your children from harassing him."

If there's anyone who understands the seriousness of dog violence, I'm at the top of that list. As many people on this site know, I was in a very violent attack by a family friend's akita, used as a pet and a guard dog, when I was 6. I will keep posting this story because, as a victim, I want my experience to be known, and I don't want dog violence to be underestimated. I remember every horrible detail, and I became very afraid of most dogs for a very, very long time. Out of nowhere, we assume because of loud barking and gunshots heard on the TV, this dog whipped around and bit me repeatedly in the face. I suffered three serious wounds: the largest opened up my cheek to expose the underlying bone, one went through the top of my nose, and one ran under my eye. I was literally one millimeter away from being blinded. I was given 60 stitches, and I am extraordinarily lucky that I wasn't killed and that I don't need a series of reconstructive surgeries to save my face. Believe it or not, this dog was never put down. She lived a full life in their home with two children. I don't know if the laws in ny have changed since then.

People see my dog and want to touch him because he's a little puppy with a very sweet face. But my primary concern is balancing his happy, healthy and thorough socialization with positive experiences that do their best to ensure a well balanced adult dog with humans, other dogs and other animals. All of them.

How anyone thinks it's okay to grasp someone's animal on the fly is beyond my comprehension. I don't go up to other people's children I don't know and pick them up because I want to. I don't know if this is a cultural thing or what.

While we're on the subject, I would love to hear your opinion on something that's really been bothering me. There's a large park close to where we live where people bring their dogs. Well behaved dogs are allowed off leash. I recently started taking my 5 month old there, and after getting to know the dogs and the people, I let him off the leash to play. He is a very, very sweet and good little dog, and he has gotten along incredibly well with all of the dogs that go there. I want him to learn to be balanced with adults while he's still young enough to know that other dogs are nice to be around. He hasn't shown a crumb of aggression. There are some other happy puppies of different ages there, too.

Except there's one that is causing me distress. Here's the story. He is also 5 months old. I know how puppies play. Healthy puppies can take turns dominating each other, even mouthing a bit, and they can turn into a big happy ball of fur. But this other puppy, named Libo, gets on my puppy 100% of the time. He just happens to be a pit bull mix, too. My puppy lies on his back, belly fully exposed, and this other puppy stands on top of him biting his ears, cheeks, back, legs. He will even give out little yelps of pain. The owner of the other dog is *not* concerned, like she doesn't think it's a problem. But this has happened 100% of the time all 4 times they have been in the same place. It's very hard to get her dog off him. So I have been the one to take my puppy to another part of the park where there are no dogs. This seems totally, totally wrong to me. Her puppy is the one in dominant mode, risking injury to my puppy, and I have to leave? Another woman who was there said to leave them be, saying "that's what puppies do. see this scar on my dog? that's from when he was a puppy." well, I'm not interested in letting this dog make my puppy get a bloody injury. I have tried making my position known to the owner, but she doesn't seem to care at all. Libo is there 95% of the time, and my puppy is the only one Lido is attacking. So what should I do? What would you do if you were me?


I don't want to stop exposing my pup to the other healthy dogs there, and it's the only place in the area where they can all run free.

My advice to you... stop it before it starts. My Trink is a very easy going dog, and there are some dominant, pushy dogs at the dog park I go to. Most of the time Trink's fine, but there are some dogs that will just not stop sniffing her. If I see that one is really pestering her, I will go and body block. I just calmly and firmly put my body between Trink and the other dog. This can take some work, as the other dog will generally try to circle around a few times. But they give up eventually and go off to bother some other dog.

In your case, if Libo starts targeting your pup, call your dog to you, and when Libo follows interpose yourself and say "ah ah", "no", "enough"... whatever command you think will work. Libo may be dominant over your pup, but he's not dominant over you, and as a senior pack member you can break up play between puppies at any time that you want.

And, I would talk to the other dog's owner, and point out that she is starting a very bad precedence by allowing her dog to act that way. It may not matter now, but if Libo meets another dominant dog, she's likely to wind up with a dog fight, and that's not going to be good for her dog or for her.

Which brings me to another thought... I think that it would benefit all dog owners, and parents, to take a/several courses on dog body language. Can you tell the difference between play fighting and the real thing? What warning signs do dogs give that they are feeling stressed, and do they want to escape or are they going to bite? If a dog's hackles are raised, is it always a sign of aggression? Being able to answer those kinds of questions would do a lot to reduce dog bites. For example, if you look at pictures of kids hugging dogs, about 70% of the time the dog's body language is "please get me out of this situation." If the person taking the pictures understood that, they could rescue the dog before the situation gets out of hand.

Froggy, thanks so much for providing your sound advice.

This dog is so aggressive with my puppy that he is completely on top of him the second he hits the park. He is on my dog 100% of the time. I have tried pulling my dog out from under him, and it's very, very difficult to do by myself. I have to call over to the owner several times before she lazily steps in. it's totally unacceptable. I've even gotten to the point of yelling at the dog to get off. It hasn't done anything, and I cannot get over how irresponsible this dog owner really is.

I just read that it's illegal to walk a pitbull in italy without a muzzle and a leash. Her dog has neither.

He's 5 months old, and I don't know if this law applies to puppies as well.

Does anyone live in or know of an area with similar laws and have any idea if they apply to puppies as well?

Ok... you do NOT want to pull your dog out from under him. If Lido is aggressive, that's just exposing your dog to potential danger. If Lido has a collar, you grab him by the collar, say "No" firmly, and pull UP (not back). If the owner complains, explain politely but firmly that you are protecting your dog from over-aggressive play, and that if she does not want you to discipline her dog, then she will need to be sure that the two dogs are kept apart.

And, worst comes to worst, you may need to find a different time to go to the park. Right now your pup is learning that the park and other dogs are very scary, and you may wind up with a fear aggressive dog.

Well, we need to make sure that no animal ever harms anyone, PERIOD.

Keeping him on leash in tight reigns should do the trick if the dog is not "easy peasy", short of that the dog needs to not socialize w/ people if he's not safe.

Don't think for one second that I prefer humans to dogs. I do love dogs so much I cannot express it enough in words... I just believe down to the core of my existence that no one deserve to be threatened by any domesticated dog... I mean it's not a wild animal! If the dog cannot be proofed around the situation that he's in he needs to be sure NOT TO BE in that situation. You know? It's that simple, quite frankly.

Anyone who gets attacked by a dog that is domestic and not wild and outside FREE... the responsibility falls on the lack of training the dog's people didn't do. This should be a consequence for the dog owners/handlers.

I HATE IT when a dog who wasn't "proofed", (and YES a dog can be proofed!), and he ends up attacking a human... and then gets taken away from the family and put to death. Instead the human family needs to be "tagged" as people who don't fulfill their end of the doggy deal responsibility so they should either pay a HUGE fine (to the attackee) and/or not be permitted to own another dog for a considered amount of years. I don't know, but SOMETHING should happen to the dog ownersssssss!

SweetDee, we are just going to have to disagree on this one. There are times when biting is the proper and only response that a dog can do, and a lot of times the bite happens because a human pushed the dog past its limits. I can't control everything that happens around my dog, and at some point other people have to take responsibility for their actions as well. A lot of bites occur because people ignore what both the dog and the owner is saying, and do what they want to. And no, I am not going to proof my dog against that. If I tell someone to leave my dog alone, and they choose to ignore me, they can bear the consequences of their actions.

... except for kids? Although in a perfect world everyone would be an expert in reading dogs, it's just not the case. We're lucky if other dog owners know anything about dog behavior. Most people don't know enough to make safe decisions all the time. As dog owners, it's entirely our job to make sure that nothing bad happens to other people or animals, at least as much as we can. If that means putting a muzzle on any dog with a predisposition to biting or unpredictable behavior while in the presence of others, then that's what has to be done.

Regarding libo, there's no way in hell I'm going to let my dog become his chew toy. In a way he enjoys the "play," but it's way too rough and unbalanced for my taste. I don't want him learning to be aggressive and I don't want him injured. It bothers me that a couple of other dog owners have told me to leave them to do whatever. It's not their dog, and they aren't taking the risk seriously. Basic puppy rough housing is one thing, but this is not balanced play.

What really, really upsets me is that the owner doesn't care, and she has no interest in taking responsibility. She's also at the park with him pretty much whenever I get the chance to go. She knows that I'm upset, but that hasn't done anything to change her. I've been wary of getting really serious with her because I'm new to the park and since all the dog owners there know each other, I don't want their first impression of me to be seriously hard-core.

But the truth is that I want to tell her that when my dog is there, I want her to leave, muzzle or leash her dog. Can I do that? I have been the one to take my dog away from the area, but HE's not the one doing anything wrong, and this defeats the purpose of going to the park specifically to play with the other great dogs. In all seriousness, do you think my suggestion is unreasonable? She doesn't see it as a problem. I do.

It's not really a question of reasonable or unreasonable. You can ask, but if she doesn't think it's a problem, she's not going to do it. You might want to see if there are mutually agreeable times that you can work out, so that the dogs don't need to be there at the same time. Failing that, you will probably have to find a different park. You can always go back later when both dogs are older and see if the behavior changes any.

No, absolutely NO. It is never OK for a dog to bite a human.. (no matter how much love we have for our pet), in everyday occurrences a dog should never be a threat to a person or child. Then you just don't get it.

I'm not talking about the worst cases like animal abuse... in any respect. I think you might be tho'..

I'm talking about when you are walking your dog on leash... and someone comes up to your dog and wants to pet it. In this case, which is not an unreasonable situation there needs to be trust that your dog is able to respond appropriately. At the least it needs to be assumed that you are in total control of your animal and that between the TWO OF YOU the person who wants to engage your dog is assumed "safe". This is my point... (maybe I should have clarified earlier.. ) ;)

Regarding the sweetdee's comment, I have to totally agree. It is inevitable that some people are going to come up to your dog. You can't expect everyone to know proper dog etiquette. A warning from you is one thing, but it can't replace proper training and control of your dog. Any dog that can't handle the occasional person coming close to it should not be walked in public without additional protection (such as a muzzle). Children are especially vulnerable, and they don't always know what might excite a dog or follow the rules given to them. Froggy, perhaps I'm reading your post incorrectly, but it appears that you're saying it's not your problem. It looks you own a powerful looking dog; that makes this even more important.


It's not really a question of reasonable or unreasonable. You can ask, but if she doesn't think it's a problem, she's not going to do it. You might want to see if there are mutually agreeable times that you can work out, so that the dogs don't need to be there at the same time. Failing that, you will probably have to find a different park. You can always go back later when both dogs are older and see if the behavior changes any.

If it's illegal here to have a pit bull without a muzzle and a leash, and her 5 month old has neither, and he's constantly being rather overly aggressive with my non-aggressive puppy, and this is the only dog park within walking distance in my area, and I can only go when I'm not working, and this woman doesn't appear to have a job as she's always going there, why should I have to be the one to leave?

I'm going to protect my dog, no question. But this response is pretty odd. It's also what bothered me about the reactions of a couple of other people at the dog park. Waiting for this woman's dog to draw blood or seriously injure my puppy before she takes her dog's mouth and behavior seriously is not absolutely not an option. In the meantime, I've stopped taking my puppy to the park, but this is not an acceptable solution. He needs to continue to play with other dogs, and safely. I think it's *all* a question of what's reasonable or unreasonable.

I would really like to know what other dog owners with a lot more dog park experience would say to this woman if they were in my situation.

regarding the sweetdee's comment, i have to totally agree. it is inevitable that some people are going to come up to your dog. you can't expect everyone to know proper dog etiquette. a warning from you is one thing, but it can't replace proper training and control of your dog. any dog that can't handle the occasional person coming close to it should not be walked in public without additional protection (such as a muzzle). children are especially vulnerable, and they don't always know what might excite a dog or follow the rules given to them.

I ran across a good example of what I meant, and now, of course, can't find it again. Let me do some more googling and see if I can post it again later. It may be that we have a different definition of "biting". I'm not talking about dogs ripping out people's throats. I also feel that cats have a right to scratch people. And, for that matter, that people have a right to defend themselves.


if it's illegal here to have a pit bull without a muzzle and a leash, and her 5 month old has neither, and he's constantly being rather overly aggressive with my non-aggressive puppy, and this is the only dog park within walking distance in my area, and i can only go when i'm not working, and this woman doesn't appear to have a job as she's always going there, why should i have to be the one to leave?

i'm going to protect my dog, no question. but this response is pretty odd. it's also what bothered me about the reactions of a couple of other people at the dog park. waiting for this woman's dog to draw blood or seriously injure my puppy before she takes her dog's mouth and behavior seriously is not absolutely not an option. in the meantime, i've stopped taking my puppy to the park, but this is not an acceptable solution. he needs to continue to play with other dogs, and safely. i think it's *all* a question of what's reasonable or unreasonable.

i would really like to know what other dog owners with a lot more dog park experience would say to this woman if they were in my situation.

You shouldn't have to leave. But it gets down to the fact that you can't control other people's behavior, you can only change yours. You go up to this woman, and ask her to muzzle Lido when your dog is there. Given what you have said about her responses up to now, she's most likely going to say no, it's your problem, you deal with it. Then what? You can go to the police, and they may give her a ticket, but then again they may say that they have other more important things to deal with. She may agree to muzzle the dog, but that's not going to stop it attacking yours and pinning yours down, it just won't be able to bite yours (and will probably still be able to get ears, because they can poke through the muzzle).

The practical problem is that you can ask the woman to do whatever you think is reasonable. And, if she is a reasonable person, she would do it. But, if she were a reasonable person, you wouldn't be in this situation because she would have done something when you first approached her about controlling her dog. And unreasonable people don't respond to reasonable requests. Therefore, the unfortunate reality is that you are the person who is probably going to have to change your behavior, because she won't change hers.

Ah hah! I found the page I was looking for. From News -Canine Body Language 101 Animal News, Dog News, Cat News, Pet News, Animal News Article, Pet News Article, Animals In The News (http://mypetside.mobi/news/canine-body-language-101.html)

A woman is walking her dog, and a stranger approaches and tries to pet the dog, while explaining that “all dogs like him.”

The dog retreats to the far end of his leash, away from the man. The man keeps on toward him.

The dog crouches down and turns his head to the side. “Nice doggy!” says the man.
The dog licks his lips. “Hungry, boy?”
The dog bares his teeth. But he's wagging his tail, even if it is tucked under him.

The man reaches out to pet him, and the dog snaps at him! With no warning whatsoever, right?
====================

Now, I can point out a whole lot of things that went wrong in this scenario, but I am not going to say that the dog was wrong in biting. (I know it says "snaps at him", but that snap can quite easily wind up biting a hand that is stretched out to pet the dog if you aren't fast enough to pull it away.) We know that the man didn't mean any harm, but the dog doesn't, and is reacting to a perceived threat.

If you stick to your "owners need to be 100% sure that the dog isn't going to bite, ever"... what do you propose should be done with dogs like this? (Which are probably the majority of the types of situations where bites occur.) No matter how much socialization and obedience the owner does, they can never be 100% sure that the dog isn't going to bite again. And, in fact, they can probably be 100% sure that the dog WILL bite again if the situation is right. They can work on decreasing the likelihood that the dog is in that situation, but unless they are psychic, they can't be sure.

To me, this is an attack provoked by the humans, and the humans need to take responsibility for it. (Of course, I doubt that the nice man in the example is ever going to admit that he was wrong.) I'll cut kids some slack in this situation, but only because I'm going to transfer the responsibility to their parents. If the kid can't make reasoned judgements, then it's up to the parents to protect them. And, in the example given, the dog's owner has some responsibility to protect her dog from situations that it can't handle, so some of the blame is hers, as well.

Linnealand, I'm not sure I have enough information to offer an opinion.

Is this park one that you leash the dog and walk on a path or is it an open area where the dogs are allowed to go off leash and all you doggy moms stand around watching the dogs play?

Perhaps a little more of a visual might be helpful.. Thanks xo

Linnealand, I'm not sure I have enough information to offer an opinion.

Is this park one that you leash the dog and walk on a path or is it an open area where the dogs are allowed to go off leash and all you doggy moms stand around watching the dogs play?

Perhaps a little more of a visual might be helpful...? Thanks xo

Okay, that's a good question. :) it's the kind with a big open field with benches at the end where all the dogs are let off leash and the doggy moms and dads sit around and chat. There's also another long, wide tree-lined walk that leads up to the field, as well as a small fenced in area used for smaller dogs (and dogs that don't get along well with others), and a children's playground nearby.

Froggy, I think your last post made your point much better. I can appreciate what you're trying to say.

I thought we might be having a different definition of biting.

Oh, and just to explain what I meant about you probably having to change your actions, instead of Lido's owner... there was a People's Court case a few days ago (I admit, it's a guilty pleasure of mine!). A 12-year-old girl was walking her dog home from the park, when a dog came out of its yard, attacked her dog, and wound up doing some serious damage. The girl didn't let go of the leash, and wound up with some cuts from it getting wrapped around her. The dog owner's attitude, even after being ordered to pay nearly 4000 dollars, was that it was 100% the girl's fault. After all, she had been told that their dog was "very territorial", and she should have known better than to walk her dog down the public street in that area. This, after admitting that their "very territorial" dog had gotten out of their yard on multiple occasions, and that there was a kid in the neighborhood that would tease the dog and open the gate. And you know what... I probably would avoid taking my dog down that street if I could. Because I doubt that that judgement changed her mind any, and I wouldn't put it past the owner to let the dog out deliberately to attack mine if she saw me out there. And if she did do better at confining the dog, it's only because she doesn't want to pay more money, not because she thinks that she was wrong.

That's really awful. Someone should stick her in jail.

At the very least, she also should have been required to put up additional fencing.

So, it's a social thing really, not a place where one WALKS their dogs and happens upon other dogs and their owners... k, I understand.

In this case, I think you should probably go to the area where the smaller dogs are so you can still socialize your baby but w/ a calmer scenario. This way your dog won't have the kind of rough play that you don't like or want.

Sounds to me like you are really concerned about that Pitbull... maybe you should post your concerns so we all can address it and help you out...

Thanks sweetdee. I should have mentioned that there are only 2 dogs that use the smaller fenced in area, and they're there because they're not good with other dogs.

My concerns about libo are these (just as a reminder, he's about a week or two older than my puppy, about 5 1/2 months old):

He is on top of my dog 100% of the time they're in the same place. My pup lies on his back, totally belly up, while libo stands on top of him, pulling his furry cheeks, ears, legs, everything, with his teeth. Every now and then he will give a yelp because he's being bit too hard. If my dog manages to get out from under him, he runs away at full speed, and libo chases him straight down and starts his domination all over again. In the meantime, my very furry puppy is also getting filthy with dirt and covered in burrs. This is what happens every single time, the whole time.

I let it go for a bit to see if it would play itself out, but in the 4 times they've "played" together, it hasn't gotten any better. The owner knows what's going on, and she knows that I'm not at all happy with it, and frankly that I'm concerned about this, but she just carries on with her conversations with other people like it's nothing. So when it has been enough "playing," I intervene, trying to separate the dogs, and she doesn't do anything unless I'm repeatedly yelling "signora, signora."

My pup is *not* going to have another chance encounter with libo, period. One thing that stumps me (well, he likes to play), is that if they are being separated, he still wants to go back to "playing."

So, that's basically it. Do tell, sweetdee, what does your trainerly doggy experience tell you about this?

IF your puppy wants to go back... that is a pretty good indication that they are playing. This gets to be a difficult situation, because, given that information, you may be over-reacting. Let me ask you... if it were a lab puppy doing this to yours, would you still feel the same way about the situation? In other words, think long and hard about whether it's the actual situation that is bothering you, or is it the fact that the other dog is a pitbull? If you wouldn't stop the lab puppy, then you really should just step back and keep a watchful eye on the situation.

I'm positive that I would feel the same way about a lab. It's intense. Other owners have told me that it's over the line play. That's where I am. Others have told me to let them do whatever they want. One woman proudly showed me a scar left on her dog from when he was a puppy and another dog "played rough" with him. I don't need scars on my dog or a bloody trip to the vet. Libo is a mixed breed dog; he looks like part pit bull, part boxer. In any case, my gut is telling me that it's too much. I gave it a chance on 4 different occasions. Didn't get any better. My pup rough and tumbles with other friendly puppies, and it's a totally different vibe. That kind of play is good for them. In any case, I see libo's kind of "play" as an unnecessary risk I'm not comfortable with.

Do any of the other owners have small dogs? You might ask them if they would be willing to let your pups play together in the small pen away from the bigger dogs.

Linnealand, my trainerly doggy experience (lmaoooooo!) tells me to tell you to listen to your gut.

Your dog is having fun but it's a little out of control. Pups need NOT have any bad experiences, like a bloody visit to a vet when they are babies. It's not necessary...

I feel that the Pitt pup's owner is not acting responsibly in this situation. She needed to start the training on her dog the second the dog was in her possession. This dog needs to learn not to bite other dogs or people from a very very early age. Pitts need to be raised chewing and playing w/ toys... not other pups, at least not as rough as it is. Where's the control and input of the dog owner while he's rough housing as hard as he is w/ your puppy? The way the canine baby plays is directly related to the way they learn to socialize...

Honestly, I wish I could be there WITH you while we bring our dogs for a day in the park so I can politely say, "As adorable as your dog is and as much as my friends pup is enjoying the play...would you mind watching how rough your Pit is playing? After all...don't they learn doggy ettiquet by playing?"... IT WOULD BE MY PLEASURE to open my mouth.

Having said that, I do enjoy a good confrontation when it comes to this sort of thing... most people do not, (I wish I didn't like to be so forthcoming!). I understand if you'd rather just avoid the whole situation and just not go to this park anymore.

How about keeping your dog on a leash while you are there... all the while letting your pup play in a controlled space, (due to the bounderies of the leash). When her Pitt comes barreling toward your dog to play you can say to her, "I'm training my dog to play gently today on this lead, would you mind keeping your dog in a calmer state so things don't get as rough?"... Would that be considered too much of a confrontation? (I really am not sure.. lol!).

Most people would tell you to just move on to another dog park... I suppose. I just don't feel like YOU should be the one to have to go, quite frankly.

Just a word or two might do the trick, after all I am SURE that if you were not there w/ your baby to be played w/ by this Pitt pup, wouldn't the same thing be happening to another person's dog? Maybe a few days away from the park is the answer... let this Pitt chew on another dog for a while... then when you return you can say something polite about keeping her pup calmer in a "play"... no? LOL!

What was the question?

I do not think getting a license to own a dog would solve anything.
If the person has a criminal record then maybe they should have to go through extra hoops to get one though.
I do think that if your dog is in question about his temperament then it should be required to have your dog evaluated. Also vets should be able to tell if you have a potentially vicious dog.
Banning dangerous breeds is definitely not the answer.
My pit bulls are the most lovable dogs in the world and do not have a mean bone in their body. I think they would lick a burglar to death at worst.

This is the list of most dangerous breeds communities and states are trying to ban. Which one will be #11, #12, #13,.


Top Ten (10) Most Dangerous Dog Breeds | Pets Do (http://www.petsdo.com/blog/top-ten-10-most-dangerous-dog-breeds)

I really don't understand how they put huskies at number 4, yet they are contridicting themselves when they say, they are not good guard dogs because of their gentle temperament, they are so contridicting themselves. A dog is what their owner makes them, I've said it before and I'll say it again, there are no bad dogs only bad owners.

A dog is what their owner makes them, I've said it before and I'll say it again, there are no bad dogs only bad owners.

I agree 200% that is why my pits are nicknamed lovable!