Stanley Kurtz ,who finally got permission to mine through the records of the Annenberg Challenge has written a report at WSJ that destroys the notion that Ayers was just a casual acquaintance on Barack Obama.

Obama and Ayers Pushed Radicalism On Schools - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122212856075765367.html#printMode)

Obama has said that Ayers is someone in the past, who he hasn't "seen" in a year and a half (the last time was during his OReilly interview this month). Obama has never been asked to speak in detail of his work with Ayers on the challenge , nor of the decisions the two made to promote Ayer's strange ideas, such as arguing that teacher education programs are "sites of resistance" that "teach against oppression."
They spent millions of someone else's money promoting radical education initiatives that netted no perceivable gain in performance by the students of Chicago.

Once again I sit and watch as a significant revelation you've posted is ignored. I'm sure it won't be long after I respond before you know who jumps in with their "who cares" mantra. The hypocrisy is mind numbingly obvious - this same crowd who's main argument has been "a third Bush term" and of late, McCain's association with Phil Gramm, will no doubt again claim that Obama's associations are irrelevant.

This is telling, it shows what we can expect from an Obama presidency. The same guy that tells his supporters to "argue" with your friends and neighbors and "get in their face (http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/09/its-war-obama-tells-supporters-argue.html)" promoted an educational philosophy which "called for infusing students and their parents with a radical political commitment, and which downplayed achievement tests in favor of activism" as Kurtz points out.

This is a major problem in this country, in spite of what those in denial about the leftist indoctrination in our schools think. I've posted on this subject numerous times, and one only need visit the FIRE's website (http://www.thefire.org/) to see the battles taking place on this nation's campuses over freedom of speech, freedom of thought and bias in higher education. Obama wants our children in public schools to be activists as opposed to learning math and science and that just pisses me off. That's how we end up with unhinged fear mongers like Naomi Wolf , who thinks Sarah Palin is "the designated muse of the coming American police state (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/the-battle-plan-ii-sarah_b_128393.html)" and tells the world on our behalf to "Please Confront America (http://www.thedailynewsegypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=15446)."

These are Obama's people and Kurtz reveals Obama's philosophy and it's beyond disturbing.

Otis Kurtz has been hitting the bottle again. In the late 1960's in his ripe old age, Barack Obama was what 10, maybe 11 years old? Yes. Go gettem Deputy Fife!

"Obama wants our children in public schools to be activists as opposed to learning math and science and that just pisses me off."

Is your earth really this flat, Steve? Wetting your britches and making ignorant false accusations probably tips the vote in the back hills of Arkansas, but very few other places.

Bobby no one is saying that Obama was complicit in setting off the bombs . That Obama line about his age is an irrelevant dodge to the issue. Everywhere I look I find Obama was himself indoctrinated in radicalism ;and has continued to practive what he was taught. Steve's point about BO telling his supporters to "get in their face " is indicative of Obama's Alinsky style activism ;combined with Chi-town politics at it's worse .It is disturbing that the press white washes this aspect of the candidate .

Is your earth really this flat, Steve? Wetting your britches and making ignorant false accusations probably tips the vote in the back hills of Arkansas, but very few other places.

LOL, I might ask the same question of you Bobby. Have you missed every report, poll, study and lawsuit that leave no doubt about the leftist nature of our schools? Did you miss the one about the University of Delaware's ideological reeducation (http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/8555.html) program or the unconstitutional speech codes (http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/9653.html) on campuses across the nation? Kurtz points out Obama's working relationship with a man who believes "teacher education programs should serve as "sites of resistance" to an oppressive system", your candidate tells people not to discuss, not to persuade, not to debate, not to reason but to "get in their face" and you think these are "ignorant" accusations? Tell that to the student charged with harassment for reading a book (http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/9507.html).

Hello:

Well, if you think his radicalism is going to scare ME away, you're wrong. I think this country NEEDS some radical change. The old fart sure ain't going to do it.

excon

Hello:

Well, if you think his radicalism is gonna scare ME away, you're wrong. I think this country NEEDS some radical change. The old fart sure ain't gonna do it.

excon

That's no surprise :)

I'm all for some radical change, I just don't think a country full of "in your face" leftists is in our best interest.

That's no surprise :)

I'm all for some radical change, I just don't think a country full of "in your face" leftists is in our best interest.Hello Steve:

Why not? We've had "in your face" rightists for a while. How's that turned out for you?

excon

Hello Steve:

Why not? We've had "in your face" rightists for a while. How's that turned out for ya?

excon

How about a lot less "in your face" from both sides? Wouldn't that be radically different?

LOL, I might ask the same question of you Bobby. Have you missed every report, poll, study and lawsuit that leave no doubt about the leftist nature of our schools? Did you miss the one about the University of Delaware's ideological reeducation (http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/8555.html) program or the unconstitutional speech codes (http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/9653.html) on campuses across the nation? Kurtz points out Obama's working relationship with a man who believes "teacher education programs should serve as "sites of resistance" to an oppressive system", your candidate tells people not to discuss, not to persuade, not to debate, not to reason but to "get in their face" and you think these are "ignorant" accusations?! Tell that to the student charged with harassment for reading a book (http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/9507.html).


Steve, everybody on this board knows that I can slice up those moronic articles of propaganda until the sun is at it's furthest point from the Earth this winter. I really don't want to spend my life correcting every web link (or email) that is championed as some sort of Republican winged out truth, however you're remarks are silly and desperate (and you're not alone). Here you've claimed "Obama wants our children in public schools to be activists as opposed to learning math and science." How much farther for the truth can you get? Obama even sponsored a bill on improving the education of US students toward Math and Science.


Campaign K-12: Obama's New Math-Science Education Bill (http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/campaign-k-12/2008/05/obamas_new_stem_bill.html)

Honda / Obama "Enhancing Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics Education (STEM) Act of 2008" (http://honda.house.gov/legislation/2008/stem.shtml)

Barack Obama and Joe Biden: The Change We Need | Education (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/)

Hello Steve:

Why not? We've had "in your face" rightists for a while. How's that turned out for ya?

excon


BINGO! We have a winner! And I'll add that they are most resistant and fearful of smart people with darker skin tones.

Now who's injecting race into this?

I can't speak for all here but Steve is not racist. Both of us would gladly support candidates like Colin Powell ;Condi Rice ,Michael Steele and many other candidates of "dark skin tone ".
It 's the political philosophy ,the experience ,and character of the candidate I oppose.

Perhaps if he were upfront about the lingering questions about him some of our issues would be resolved .

Earth to Tom. Earth to Tom. Come in please! Every major news network in the continental US has reported that there is elements of society that will not vote for Barack Obama because he's not White enough. They even admit he's a better candidate, but are voting for McCain. Oh looky! Tom found three Black people associated with Republican party and two of the three want nothing to do with being part of a McCain staff. Now of any reason I can think of to vote for John McCain, his "character" wouldn't even make the list. The "maverick" left his wife and re-married the trophy wife for money. What kind of crap is that, Tom? He came back from Nam and desired accolades from the public. BS! Not in my book! And you forget that I live in Las Vegas and I know whom frequents Sin City. BTW I haven't forgotten that McCain represents twenty percent of the infamous Keating Five. His political philosophy? What to rub elbows with the wealthier class in the country! He's married to wealth and that why his tax plan is lenient on the wealthier upper class, as opposed to Barack's. Perhaps if you weren't hoping that fairy tales would come true, your candidate wouldn't have surrogates injecting lies.

Are you demonstating the "in your face " style that Obama preaches ?

Just keep on bringing up the Keating 5 . It is a loser argument that the Dems will not serously touch. 80% of the Keating 5 were Dems and McCain was completely exonerated by the Dem investigator Robert Bennett (who you will recall also served as Clintoon's laywer during the impeachment ).
You can keep on bleating Keating 5 throughout the election... in fact I hope the Dems do .

As to your comments about these objective news organizations that have identified racist voters; have they clearlyt established that they were "in your face" rightists ?
According to the Obots it was the Clintoons that were the racists ;at least until the primaries concluded .Then Obama began phoney accusations about things that no one has said but him about his opponents saying he doesn't look like all those other Presidents on the currency ..oh by the way ..he's black.

This is typical ;right out of the Alinsky playbook . Thanks for proving my point.

Steve, everybody on this board knows that I can slice up those moronic articles of propaganda until the sun is at it's furthest point from the Earth this winter. I really don't want to spend my life correcting every web link (or email) that is championed as some sort of Republican winged out truth, however you're remarks are silly and desperate (and you're not alone). Here you've claimed "Obama wants our children in public schools to be activists as opposed to learning math and science." How much farther for the truth can you get?! Obama even sponsored a bill on improving the education of US students toward Math and Science.


Campaign K-12: Obama's New Math-Science Education Bill (http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/campaign-k-12/2008/05/obamas_new_stem_bill.html)

Honda / Obama "Enhancing Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics Education (STEM) Act of 2008" (http://honda.house.gov/legislation/2008/stem.shtml)

Barack Obama and Joe Biden: The Change We Need | Education (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/)

Bobby, come on man, it's propaganda to post links to actual cases... which have proven to have merit and resulted in changed policies? Supposedly intelligent people have gone ballistic over a rumor that Sarah Palin tried to ban books, but actual examples are propaganda? I don't think it's one bit silly to fight for freedom of speech, the right to read a book without harassment and the right to an education without radical bias - from either side - in taxpayer funded schools.

BINGO! We have a winner! And I'll add that they are most resistant and fearful of smart people with darker skin tones.

Sorry buddy but that's about the biggest load of BS I've ever read. Injecting racism where there is none is pathetic and I'd like to think you're still above that.

Sorry buddy but that's about the biggest load of BS I've ever read. Injecting racism where there is none is pathetic and I'd like to think you're still above that.



You and Tom make the perfect mushrooms, cultivated in the dark and like being fed crap. And now this fantasy you propose in denying racism doesn't play a part in our society and in the voting booths this November is the biggest bwa ha ha ha yet. After a 200 year run on the White House, the streak could come to an end by an educated well spoken Black guy from Chicago with a surname of Arab extraction. This is great! I love it! I never thought I'd live to see so many people sweating an election!

Bobby, come on man, it's propaganda to post links to actual cases ... which have proven to have merit and resulted in changed policies? Supposedly intelligent people have gone ballistic over a rumor that Sarah Palin tried to ban books, but actual examples are propaganda? I don't think it's one bit silly to fight for freedom of speech, the right to read a book without harassment and the right to an education without radical bias - from either side - in taxpayer funded schools.

Your claim that Obama is against our children learning math and science was a farce. BTW I don't know anything about Sarah Palin banning books, but I do know the she is the governor of Alaska and that State has one of the highest student drop-out rates, if not the highest in the whole US. You've resorted to making excuses and pointing fingers at the Dems, yet I'm the one that proved you wrongful for your accusation.

Campaign K-12: Obama's New Math-Science Education Bill (http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/campaign-k-12/2008/05/obamas_new_stem_bill.html)

Honda / Obama "Enhancing Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics Education (STEM) Act of 2008" (http://honda.house.gov/legislation/2008/stem.shtml)

Barack Obama and Joe Biden: The Change We Need | Education (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/)

As to your comments about these objective news organizations that have identified racist voters; have they clearlyt established that they were [I]"in your face" rightists ?
This is typical ;right out of the Alinsky playbook . Thanks for proving my point.


Wow! I thought you liked Fox news. You're even against them now. Maybe you should switch to CNN, it was on their broadcast also. Besides CNN was voted the most trust-able name in news. You didn't get the memo? And what's this about you having a point? You must of glossed over it without the facts... again. Stick to those wild email chain rumors, Tom. That's your strength.

You and Tom make the perfect mushrooms, cultivated in the dark and like being fed crap. And now this fantasy you propose in denying racism doesn't play a part in our society and in the voting booths this November is the biggest bwa ha ha ha yet. After a 200 year run on the White House, the streak could come to an end by an educated well spoken Black guy from Chicago with a surname of Arab extraction. This is great! I love it! I never thought I'd live to see so many people sweating an election!

You do a really fine job of putting words in my mouth as I never said racism plays no role, I called your remarks "about the biggest load of BS I've ever read." Fact is, the right welcomes and embraces "smart people with darker skin tones" as tom noted. We don't derail any chance they have as the left did to Michael Steele and Miguel Estrada. It's the other side that excludes them, labels them as traitors to their race and draws racist cartoons when they don't fit into their ideological mold. Fact is, what should alarm you is the report this week from the racist AP-Yahoo News poll that showed "More than a third of all white Democrats and independents (http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/260078) — voters Obama can't win the White House without — agreed with at least one negative adjective about blacks, according to the survey, and they are significantly less likely to vote for Obama than those who don't have such views."

Wow, look at the results of that survey as it relates to republicans:

http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/nws/elections/ap_poll_race_obama.jpg

Your claim that Obama is against our children learning math and science was a farce. BTW I don't know anything about Sarah Palin banning books, but I do know the she is the governor of Alaska and that State has one of the highest student drop-out rates, if not the highest in the whole US. You've resorted to making excuses and pointing fingers at the Dems, yet I'm the one that proved you wrongful for your accusation.

I'd like to see the data on this claim about Alaska's dropout rate because all I've seen are rumors and rhetoric. I have seen where California posted a 24 percent dropout rate (http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_9908513?IADID=Search-www.mercurynews.com-www.mercurynews.com) and only 71% of students graduate high school (http://www.edvoice.org/Default.aspx?tabid=65). The official report to the feds shows 8% for Alaska (http://www.ed.gov/admins/lead/account/consolidated/sy06-07part1/ak.pdf) (pdf).

As for my "farce," it's a part of Obama's campaign (http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/NationalServicePlanFactSheet.pdf) (pdf):


Barack Obama calls his years working as a community organizer in Chicago’s South Side the best education he ever had. He believes that all students should serve their communities. Studies show that students who participate in service-learning programs do better in school, are more likely to graduate high school and go to
College, and are more likely to become active, engaged citizens. Schools that require service as part of the educational experience create improved learning environments and serve as resources for their communities. The Obama-Biden plan sets a goal for all students to engage in service, with middle and high school students performing 50 hours of service each year, and college students performing 100 hours of service each year.
Under this plan, students would graduate college with as many as 17 weeks of public service experience under their belts.

Expand Service-Learning in Our Nation’s Schools: In November, Barack Obama laid out a comprehensive plan to provide all Americans with a world-class education and give our schools a substantial infusion of funds to support teachers and principals and improve student learning. That plan conditions that assistance on school districts developing programs to engage students in service opportunities. Obama and Biden believe that middle and high school students should be expected to engage in community service for 50 hours annually during the school year or summer months. They will develop national guidelines for service-learning and community service programs, and will give schools better tools both to develop successful programs and to document the experience of students at all levels. They will encourage programs that engage with community partners to expand opportunities for community service and service-learning opportunities, so that students can apply what they learn in the classroom to authentic situations that help the community. These programs will also involve citizens from the community engaging students in service opportunities through the Classroom Corps.

Sounds nice doesn't it? It's exactly what I said, develop a bunch of little activists.

Wow, look at the results of that survey as it relates to republicans:

What would be more telling is to ask the pollers the same type of questions about white evangelical Republicans. Or just how about you? Which of these would you use to describe them?

Kind
Compassionate
Generous
Hard working
Intelligent
Overbearing
Intolerant
Bigoted
Dumb as a rock
Knuckle dragging neanderthals
Should all be in a prison camp

Hello strawman, how are you?

Hello strawman, how are you?

I'm just fine thank you. Why is it a strawman? I think the answers would be much more revealing than the other stupid poll.

Oh, it's a stupid poll now? The one you used to illustrate your point earlier?

Here's the definition of strawman argument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man):

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man," one describes a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view, yet is easier to refute, then attributes that position to the opponent. For example, someone might deliberately overstate the opponent's position. While a straw man argument may work as a rhetorical technique—and succeed in persuading people—it carries little or no real evidential weight, since the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.

Oh, it's a stupid poll now? The one you used to illustrate your point earlier?

Details, NK. Remember? I first called it a racist poll - and that's about as stupid as it gets. The "fact" I suggested to Bobby that should be a concern remains, the left's own stupid, racist poll showed a significant number of bigots in the party of tolerance and diversity. What is says about Republicans is no surprise, everyone knows we're racists - because the left says so.

And thanks for the definition - as if I needed help. The problem with your claim is I didn't "attribute that position to the opponent." I asked you to answer for yourself.

What is says about Republicans is no surprise, everyone knows we're racists - because the left says so. Actually those responses are from republicans pollees. It has nothing to do with views of "the left".

Actually those responses are from republicans pollees. It has nothing to do with views of "the left".

LOL, you still don't get it. The poll was designed to get the answers they wanted, and the answer the left always wants is that white Republicans are bigots. To their surprise I'm sure, it showed a significant number of Democrats are bigots. Obama could get derailed by the bigots in his own party and independents.

Who injects race ? The left

Ky. poll suggests race a factor - State - Kentucky.com (http://www.kentucky.com/news/state/story/530297.html)




The telephone survey conducted for the left-leaning political blog Daily Kos ...

The telephone survey was conducted by Research 2000, a polling firm in Olney, Md. that routinely conducts polls for the Lexington Herald-Leader.

In the presidential race, McCain leads Obama by 18 points, 55 percent to 37 percent.

Del Ali, president of Research 2000, said he thinks much of Obama's problem in Kentucky is related to his skin color.

"In polls in other states, Obama usually gets at least 40 percent of the white votes, but not in Kentucky," Ali said.

Sixty-two percent of white respondents said they would vote for McCain and 31 percent for Obama. Among black respondents, 4 percent favored McCain and 87 percent Obama.


"I would not say I believe that Obama would be leading in the state if he were white, but the figures show that most Kentuckians aren't ready to vote for a black for president," said Joe Gershtenson, director of Eastern Kentucky University's Center for Kentucky History and Politics,




The numbers speak to the fact that whites are more likely to vote for a black president, 31% Obama, than blacks are to vote for a white president, McCain 4%.

Now which side is more "racist?":confused:

Now which side is more "racist?":confused:Blacks?

Who injects race ? the left

Ky. poll suggests race a factor - State - Kentucky.com (http://www.kentucky.com/news/state/story/530297.html)

The numbers speak to the fact that whites are more likely to vote for a black president, 31% Obama, than blacks are to vote for a white president, McCain 4%.

Now which side is more "racist?":confused:


Blacks that voted in every previous presidential elections voted for the White candidate 100% of the time. How about that stat? Albeit, however small or large, "race" is part of this election and I refuse to wear rose colored glasses no matter how many posts end up being removed. I think it's good to acknowledge that fact. You can't inject something that's already there. There is an element of our society, a small percentage of Whites, that will not vote for Barack Obama because he is of a darker skin tone than their own forefathers. We've had a 200 year run on Caucasians being elected President in the US and for the first time EVER, Blacks have had a person of their own heritage in the party of their choice, that being Democratic party, in which African Americans have been registered in higher percentages for fifty years. My only advise to the Black community, is to vote for Barack Obama not because he's bi-racially part Black, but they accept him as the better candidate on issues important to our country on the whole. And I do think most Blacks are voting for Obama on the issues (there's plenty of good valid reasons not to vote for John McCain). BTW Catholics back in 1960 voted in droves for John Kennedy. And this time I fully expect the majority of multimillionaires to vote John McCain. That's just the reality of it.

There is an element of our society, a small percentage of Whites, that will not vote for Barack Obama because he is of a darker skin tone than their own forefathers.

And there are at least and equal amt. of whites that would vote for him because of his color.
You want to take off your rose colored glasses ? How's this dose of reality ? If Obama had been a "white " backbencher with less than a term's experience and little accomplishment in his public career he would not have been seriously considered in the primaries ;in fact it is doubtful he would've been allowed on stage in the debates.

If Obama had been a "white " backbencher with less than a term's experience and little acomplishment in his public career he would not have been seriously considered in the primaries ;in fact it is doubtful he would've been allowed on stage in the debates.


Tom D. Errr... Well what a surprise! We disagree! I find your remark hypocritical and with a racist undertone. For the record, Obama's just as qualified and educated than most candidates, white or otherwise. In fact John McCain has less education and has exactly the same record of presidential experience as Barack Obama---zero! And had John McCain been a Black man spewing off his Republican view on the issues, he wouldn't had the near the support of Barack Obama.



And there are at least and equal amt. of whites that would vote for him because of his color.
You want to take off your rose colored glasses ? How's this dose of reality ?

I let you borrow my pair. Your glasses are held together by a band-aid with one lens so warped that you stumble in broad daylight. ;)