In Texas, can both parties of a fight be found guilty of assult family violence if one was defending himself in his own home? The one that instigated the fight has already plead guilty but the one who defended himself has a reset court date on oct 1st.. can both be found guilty? Is there no victim in this case? Both are guilty of the same thing? :confused:

In Texas, can both parties of a fight be found guilty of assult family violence if one was defending himself in his own home? the one that instigated the fight has already plead guilty but the one who defended himself has a reset court date on oct 1st.. can both be found guilty? is there no victim in this case? both are guilty of the same thing? :confused:


If it's a criminal case the Plaintiff is the State of Texas so, yes, both parties could possibly be found guilty of assault.

can both be found guilty? Hello eric:

In Texas, not only can both of you be found guilty, they'll grab some stranger off the street and find him guilty too.

That doesn't mean both of you ARE guilty. Therefore, if you're innocent, they'll have to PROVE your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt at a trial. If you're, in fact, NOT guilty, they won't be able to do that.

You DO have a lawyer, don't you? Don't do anything without a lawyer.

excon

But wait... if the other person was already found guilty then how am I supposed to be guilty too? Why won't the DA understand that one of us is a victim and that one of us was attacked in our own home and acted in selfdefense and that the person that did the attacking was alread found guilty.. why won't they drop my charges? They just want my money huh? This is why people develop mistrust for the law.

Hello again, eric:

I don't know why prosecutors in Texas are so contrary. Maybe they don't care about your guilt or innocence. Maybe they're just keeping score Maybe you're just a notch on their belt. Maybe it's because that's how they get promoted. They certainly don't get ahead by being nice. This is Texas, after all.

excon

Ex - have you been to Texas lately to find this out first hand? I, for one will never set foot in Texas ever again. Back in 1999 while waiting for my son to get off a public pay phone at a convenience store, the store clerk had called the cops and reported us for loitering. I drove away from the store and was stopped about a mile down the road and questioned why was I loitering(?) at the convenience store. Unbelieveable. You can't even wait in your car while someone finishes a phone call. Have to get your stuff and git or explain to the gestapo a/k/a The Dept of Public Safety. Safety what, who knows? P.S. there is no loitering allowed in the whole state, anywhere, believe it or not, since before 1999.

The poster is just going to have to go through the motions of his trial to prove his innocence. I hope he has an attorney to help prove his innocence.

When I went to the 1st court appearance I went without an attorney and had a date reset.. while there I spoke to the DA's assistant and tried to tell my side of the story.. he didn't care.. all he wanted was for me to plea guilty and take a class c misdemeanor and pay 250 court cost. I declined the offer... now to fight this mess a lawyer quoted me 1000. So if I hire a lawyer and win- I still lose cause the system beat me out of 1000. I almost want to take the class c misdemeanor

Hello again, eric:

Wow, Dude!! First you're all righteous about how you can be found guilty when the OTHER guy was ALREADY found guilty... And, NOW, you want to lay down for them.

Whatever.

excon

I lose either way... my hard earned money is being robbed from me... the lesser of the two evils is hard to tell. What would you rather do? Pay 1000 to fight and maybe win? Or pay 250 and have a class c misdemeanor on your record and be done with it? If I win I still have to pay the court cost any way right? So there's no away around the court cost regardless. The class c misdemeanor is the catch. The system has me by the balls... "whatever"?

Hello again, eric:

The FIRST question to answer, is ARE YOU GUILTY? I know you don't understand HOW you can be guilty too, but just because one guy assaulted another, it DOESN'T mean that the other guy DIDN'T assault the first guy too. By the way, did you READ the law??

I don't know what happened. YOU know what happened. YOU know what the cops know. YOU know whether it's the TRUTH or not. YOU know whether you can PROVE it or not. YOU know how credible the other person is. YOU know how credible YOU are. YOU know the history behind these events.

If you're GUILTY, and you DID what the criminal law says you CAN'T do, then lay down because you'll be found guilty. But, if you DIDN'T break the law, don't lay down because if you didn't do it, they can't PROVE you did. And, PROVE it, they must. Therefore, if it was me, THOSE are the criteria I would base MY decision on.

excon

Eric,

Excon is right about not laying down. What do you have to lose in trying to fight it - even if you have to try it yourself?

Listen, if you're anywhere near Dallas or another city with a law school you can go to the law library - and check your local court house too for a law library. I don't blame you for not wanting to get an attorney - so go look up the West legal forms, Dorsaneo's, O'Connors... Vernons, etc. Look up your situation in all of these books and it gives you all the forms you need and how to argue what you're being charged with - especially O'Connors is good at telling you how to defend yourself. These are the same books the lawyers use - so you will gain lots of useful knowledge from them. They even tell you how to handle the trail too - how to admit evidence, etc. In these books you can find the forms that ask the DA to provide you with all the evidence they have against you etc. From what I've seen in TX a lot of times just you asking them for all this stuff will cause them to drop the action - because - after all - they just want you to plea and they get the conviction on their score card.

You can load them up with paper work through these books. And in the case of SMU in Dallas they also have clinics where you can learn what to do in court. Request them to have a court reporter present too - if this is being heard in JP court. If they won't you can hire your own court reporter - this keeps record of the kangaroo courts so you can appeal if you want.

Excon is right - why do you want to lay down for them? If you don't see value in the attorney then try it yourself - if you fail you still get the same thing they're offering now. The other thing you need to consider is that this conviction will go on your record and that isn't good. If you get nailed a few times with assault - it could eventually be bumped up to a felony in the case of domestic violence. So there's more at stake than a few hundred dollars - plus some employers won't hire you with an assault conviction.

Another trick my former co-worker uses when he has traffic fines he can't afford to pay is he goes to the jail about 11:20 PM on a Friday or Saturday night. As long as he's there before midnight - this time counts as one day towards your fine payment (you get so much money a day for sitting in jail). Then, because it's a weekend night - they have lots of drunks that need locking up. Well for some reason you can't put drunks in with other people in Texas so they let you leave and they have to consider this your time served. Now, I don't know if this still works in Texas or not, you'd have to check into it - but I thought it was funny nonetheless. Also, this probably only works in the smaller towns where they don't have a lot of jail cells. Of course it would be my luck the cops would be eating donuts and not picking up drunks the night I tried this - ha.

Best of luck.

OK... I appreciate your comments/effort... but if defending yourself/in your own home/after the person threw and hit you with a bottle/after you told the person to leave/after they swung at you first instead of leaving- is against the law then I guess I'm guilty. And that would mean that its against the law to defend yourself in your own home.on top of all this keep in mind the other person has already been found guilty. Here's the other catch... like you say- they have to prove I'm guilty. (that I defended myself/not assulted someone) what if I don't get a lawyer... am I automatically guilty? What happens if I go to court on the 1st without a lawyer again? Your answer is what?---get a lawyer, pay the 1000? I'm screwed either way by THE system when its already been proven that I was a victim. So we are both victims? I guess the system is the one assulting both of us? Or screwing us?

Hello eric:

Yes, the system is screwing with you... However, if you look real deep, you'll find that you're responsible for the events that occur in your life.

You say, you guess you're guilty... But, that ain't the way the law reads... I'm telling you, READ IT. You either ARE, or you're NOT guilty. There ain't no in between.

You also use words like "defending yourself", but you have no idea what those words mean in a legal context. It used to mean that you had to be cornered, with NO WAY OUT, and you had NO CHOICE but to defend yourself. COULD you have gotten away?? Or did you chase him, and call that defending yourself?

I say USED TO, because the standards of self defense have recently changed, especially in TEXAS. Now, you don't have to be threatened at all. You don't even have to be the victim. All you need to do is see a guy robbing your neighbor. Then you can shoot him in the back while he's running away, and claim self defense.

So, since the law on self defense is much deeper that you can imagine, you cannot possibly make it through this WITHOUT legal representation. It would be foolish to try.

excon

Several things, one Texas over all is a good state for self defense, in many states it is not so. What is looked at is your ability to run away from the fight, even if in your own home. If there was the ability to run away, they look at the fighting back differently often.

But yes, they can charge both people with starting the fight, and it will depend on what he plead to. Also you need a transcript of his statement, normally if they plead guility they have to read a statement of what they did. If they in this statement in court claim they attacked you first, that will be your defense.

Thanks Fr_Chuck... I have a statement that I typed up that summarizes what happened and got my wife and friend to sign it as my witnesses. They were present when it happened. The statement says that I was hit with a bottle and then told the person to leave my house.. instead of leaving the person attacked me and tried to hit me.. I swung back once in self defense and the other person fell and then called the cops. We both got arrested. I'm going to try to present this to the judge when I go to court on the 1st. I don't know what else to do except spend money on a lawyer. If this type of self defense is illegal then I guess I should have let the person beat me up in my own home. I don't know? This sucks

thanks Fr_Chuck....i have a statement that i typed up that summarizes what happend and got my wife and friend to sign it as my witnesses. they were present when it happend. the statement says that i was hit with a bottle and then told the person to leave my house..instead of leaving the person attacked me and tried to hit me..i swung back once in self defense and the other person fell and then called the cops. we both got arrested. im gonna try to present this to the judge when i go to court on the 1st. idk what else to do except spend money on a lawyer. if this type of self defense is illegal then i guess i should have let the person beat me up in my own home. idk? this sucks


Can't speak for where you are but in NYS EVERYBODY gets arrested. The Police don't have the time or inclination to sort out the details - the Court takes care of that.

I am seeing more and more accidents where BOTH parties are given tickets and then the Court sorts that part out, too. Same situation, different subject.

what else to do except spend money on a lawyer.Hello again, eric:

Spend money on a lawyer or take their deal. There AIN'T no other choice! You NEED a lawyer. Statements are NOT acceptable in court. Look, if you HAVE evidence, but don't know how to get it IN, then you might as well not have it. No, court is NOT about fair. Court is about WINNING!

YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THIS STUFF! Can I say it any plainer?? You don't need THEM to convict you. You'll convict YOURSELF.

I'm not going to say this again.

excon

Maybe your right excon... with my luck you ARE right. That's what sucks so much about this whole thing. They won't listen to me unless I have a lawyer- I shouldn't need one but I guess I do. The system is forcing me to get one.. maybe hoping that I will plea guilty instead.. idk. They don't seem very concerned about the truth/justice. I've called twice to the DA's office.. they won't talk to me. I guess they don't have to. Sucks.

they wont talk to me. i guess they dont have to. sucks.Hello again, eric:

Good! The more you talk to THEM, the more you hang yourself. THEY'RE the enemy. You're right. They're NOT interested in justice. They don't want to help you. They want to SCREW you! They're interested in WINNING. That should be YOUR goal too.

excon

Eric,

Lawyer or not, you really need to get yourself familiar with the laws as excon said. You can read a limited version of the laws at Penal Code (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/pe.toc.htm) If you look at the post I made previously there are all kinds of resources for you to learn how to represent yourself and even if you have a lawyer, you need to be familiar with all of this so you can get the best defense possible. With all these books out there with the laws, the forms to turn into the court, the rules of evidence, the proceedures and all of that clearly laid out for you it is silly for you to act so helpless.

Agreed having a lawyer is really the best way to deal with this - if you are however against the wall you can help yourself with O'Connors, West, Vernons, Desareo - and do a pretty decent job of it.

What you fail to understand is an assault conviction on your record can screw your life up in certain areas - so with a lawyer or on your own you owe it to yourself to fight this and you are absolutely not helpless in Texas - they have lots of resources for Pro Se litigants. Criminal court however would lead me to spend the $1,000 - and don't let the lawyer take the $1,000 and then get you to plea out - geesh - seen that many a times.

It's your life and you need to invest in yourself by spending some time at the library or law library with the above referenced books. This way you can make sure you get your monies worth with the layer or if you don't have the $1,000 you have a chance.

Best of luck

When I go back to court on the 1st I'm going to ask for a court appointed lawyer... im not spending my money on some B.S. that I shouldn't have to. And I'm not laying down just yet. Anybody disagree with that? " IF " they appoint one to me and IF the lawyer is the worst possible one I could be appointed with, this should be a easy case for him to win. Right? Any opinions on this?

Eric, I sure wish you'd attempt to educate yourself some on the laws as I've given you all the resources you need. Even going to your local JP court most of them have sheets of procedures with a little legal help on them. You can't go to the judge and ask for a lawyer unless you know how to do that and secondly, you have to prove that you have no money of your own to hire one. IF you would do some reseach you could probably find grounds to have the case dismissed on your own - you have a trial on the 1st and you don't even know what their evidence against you is? You could have it dismissed on lack of evidence if you tried to help yourself even a little with the references I gave you. Is the 1st a trial or hearing? If it's the trial you may lose just because you don't have time to ask for their evidence - you need to get a continuance. Looks as though you've backed yourself into a corner and you have to have an attorney to get you out.

You absolutely must take responsibility for your own wellfare and lift a few fingers to help yourself or take the charge, pay your fee and have it on your record. That's what the DA wants so he has another conviction on his score card.

Call the Texas State Bar Association and get a lawyer referral for $20 for a half an hour. I am probably wasting my time offering that too - but I do understand your upset and would like to see you succeed.

From the looks of it you just want to pitch a fit and have this go away - I hope that I am wrong because this is not going away - it's going on your record.

I spoke to John Roades... he is running for DA.. I asked him what happens when I go on the 1st without a lawyer. He said they will just reset it again. When I went the first time there were a lot of people there that requested court appointed attorneys... they fill out a form and then the court tells you yes or no. maybe I should have did that the 1st time around. But ill do it this time and see what happens. This is a small town I live in. there's only the local library. They mite have the books you recommended. I guess ill have to just go look.

Okay, just post on here what happens and if you don't get an attorney I will try to find a form for you from one of the books next time I go to the library. It wouldn't hurt though to spend $20 bucks to talk to a local criminal defense attorney through the bar referral program. Just Google Texas State Bar Association and call the referral number.

i spoke to John Roades...he is running for DA..i asked him what happens when i go on the 1st without a lawyer. he said they will just reset it again. when i went the first time there were alot of people there that requested court appointed attorneys...they fill out a form and then the court tells you yes or no. maybe i shoulda did that the 1st time around. but ill do it this time and see what happens. this is a small town i live in. theres only the local library. they mite have the books you recommended. i guess ill have to just go look.


Straight from the Texas site - some Courts want a formal financial affidavit (form), others do not. This says it all. You can (apparently) walk into Court during business hours and ask for the financial form/request for a Court-appointed Attorney. You do not have to wait until the Court date.

How to Request a Court-Appointed Lawyer
1. The following information is designed to help you through the process of requesting an appointed lawyer in Texas courts. This material is not a substitute for the advice of a lawyer — it‘s just a roadmap to help you ask for a court-appointed lawyer if you are accused of a crime and can‘t afford to hire a lawyer on your own.
Ask For a Lawyer EARLY in the process
The court system is complex and having a lawyer by your side is important. Even if you feel like you just need someone to explain what‘s going on, ask for a defense lawyer as soon as you get a chance.
After an arrest, you will be brought before a magistrate, who will read you your rights and determine your eligibility for bail. Tell the magistrate you want to request a court-appointed lawyer, and ask to fill out a written application for appointment of counsel. If the magistrate tells you that you cannot ask for a lawyer, or that you don‘t need a lawyer, politely insist on your right to request a court-appointed lawyer.
If you do not request a lawyer from the magistrate, you still may request an application for appointment of counsel — ask the jailer or court administrator for the proper forms. If you are brought to court and either have not submitted a written application for appointment of counsel by that time or have not received a response to a previous request for a court-appointed lawyer, you should inform the judge that you want a court-appointed lawyer.
Ask to Complete a Written Request for Court-Appointed Counsel
Whether you are speaking with a magistrate, court administrator, or to the judge, you should ask to make a written request for a court-appointed lawyer. The name of the form for submitting a written request for counsel varies by county, and might be called “Application for Appointment of Counsel” or “Appointment Request Form.” Ask for this form when you ask the magistrate, jailer, court administrator, or judge for a court-appointed lawyer or for help in requesting a court-appointed lawyer.
Ask to Complete a Financial Questionnaire
Most counties will require you to submit a form providing financial information that demonstrates that you cannot afford to hire a lawyer before they will approve your request for a court-appointed lawyer. The requested financial information will include information on your income and expenses. The county may ask for your financial information on the application for counsel or on a separate form often called a financial affidavit or financial questionnaire. When you ask for an application for counsel, ask if there is a separate financial form that you need to fill out in order to complete your written request for a court-appointed lawyer.
Document Your Finances
If you go to court without a lawyer and want to ask the court to appoint you a lawyer, it is useful to bring pay stubs, bank statements, and copies of your monthly bills with you to court, particularly if you have been released on bond. These documents will help the court determine whether you qualify to receive a court-appointed lawyer.
Be Persistent
Sometimes judges and other officials will put off your request for a court-appointed lawyer, usually by telling you to try to hire a lawyer. If the judge asks or tells you to try to hire a lawyer, try to speak to at least two lawyers before your next court date. If possible, have these lawyers give you a written estimate of what it would cost to hire them in your case. Be certain that the price the lawyers give you reflects the reality of your case — for example, if you believe you are innocent and want to go to trial, the cost of a lawyer likely will be significantly higher than if you want a lawyer to help you understand your plea options and plea bargain with a prosecutor. If you cannot afford the prices the lawyers quote you, you should return to court and again ask the court to appoint you a lawyer. Be prepared to tell the court about your efforts to hire a lawyer on your own.
Always Show Up for Court
Never skip court because you can‘t afford to hire a lawyer, even if the judge said that you had to hire a lawyer before your next court date and you don‘t have enough money to do that. Just keep asking for a lawyer and filling out written requests for appointment of counsel every time you go to court. Skipping court will lead to a warrant being issued for your arrest.
If you have additional questions about how to ask for a lawyer, call TFDP at 1-866-207-6532. If you have requested a court-appointed lawyer and feel that your request was wrongly denied, submit a complaint.

I mean no disrespect but I do not see that doing your own legal research will help you - most people do not know how to do legal research (which is taught in law school), don't know how to cite cases and, more importantly, don't know how to read the law and/or cases. People post what they think is case law all the time - recently two "authorities" were posted. One was in the wrong country and also on the wrong subject; the other was an appeals case and the decision concerned the right to appeal, not what the OP asked.

Anyway, this is what the Texas Law site says.

I went to court this morning and requested a court appointed attorney.. luckily I was appointed one. The attorney is suggesting that I attend some kind of classes and by my next court date my case will be dissmissed. My next date is on dec. 3, the classes are like 25.00 a week. So id end up spending about 200 hundred on these classes.. any comments or opinions on this?

Hmmmmm... sounds like a good way for him not to have to do anything. Do you feel like these classes would be a benefit to you? Could be a really great thing - unless you're like me - then it's a really boring waste of money thing.

I guess it's worth considering - what are your other options?

From taking care of my dad's case pleading his defense and counterclaims - doing the legal stuff on your own is a real witch - of course your case is so less involved than what I've got going on. On the other hand - I used to live in a city with a really horrible - outrageous kanagroo court. They had gobs of complaints against them from lawyers and nothing changed. The only lawyers that would even take a case in that town was the new ones that didn't know better. This court was so bad, when the prosecutor could see they would lose the case as charged they would literally ask the judge after all arguments were heard to change the charge and instructions to the jury so it would stick! It happened all of the time - but not being a court of record I guess they never got in trouble. On the other hand, other Texas cities are so lax that for example the judge hearing a case on public intoxication leans over and asks the defendant - have you been drinking this morning already? The defendant says - yes sir - and the judge just carried on as if he wasn't talking to a drunk. My point is - you never know what you'll get in muny court.

So basically - you just need to ponder this whole notion and see what you come up with - and really call the state bar and get a $20 consultation. I'll tell you a secret - most of the lawyers don't want you bugging them by coming into their office for 30 min. and $20 because they know it's hard to quit at 30 min. and you're only paying $20 bucks - so - lucky for you - they will talk to you on the phone for free.

Since you don't have the time and resources and probably not the aptitude either for fighting your own case - and like I said - even with a lawyer - if you get in these kangaroo courts - lawyer or not you lose - you may want to do the classes. Call a bunch of lawyers and talk to people on the street to find out if the court you're in is a good or bad one and make your decision from there.

Take care!

i went to court this morning and requested a court appointed attorney..luckily i was appointed one. the attorney is suggesting that i attend some kind of classes and by my next court date my case will be dissmissed. my next date is on dec. 3, the classes are like 25.00 a week. so id end up spending about 200 hundred on these classes.. any comments or opinions on this?


If you don't take this "deal" and by some chance are found guilty, what is the sentence?

And then which would you rather face, that possible sentence or paying $200 and some time on classes - ?

A friend of mine doesn't like the idea of the classes... he says that taking the classes makes it look like I am admitting I have a problem(family violence) and that I will be among people that I am not really in the same "class" with(people that beat up their wife and kids). I was defending myself. Now that I have a lawyer(court appointed) I find it hard to believe that a jury would convict me if they tried to put themselves in my position. What will the jury think when they are told that the other person was already found guilty of assaulting me. It was already established that I was "the" victim of family violence. If they were in my shoes would they really think it fair to find us both guilty of the same thing? If I AM the victim doesn't it make more sense that I WAS trying to defend myself? I find it hard to believe that the DA is taking it this far and really thinks I can be found guilty. On the 1st I spoke to the DA assistant. We went back and forth- I told him " if i am found guilty then that means that i could go to your house start a fight and when you swing back and hit me then your guitly too" he said "yup thats the law" I don't think so.. he's fulla . Plus I have a clean record. No priors. And I have witnesses. I feel like taking this all the way to court but with all the crookedness who knows what will happen.

a friend of mine doesnt like the idea of the classes...he says that taking the classes makes it look like i am admitting i have a problem(family violence) and that i will be among people that i am not really in the same "class" with(people that beat up their wife and kids). i was defending myself. now that i have a lawyer(court appointed) i find it hard to believe that a jury would convict me if they tried to put themselves in my position. what will the jury think when they are told that the other person was already found guilty of assaulting me. it was already established that i was "the" victim of family violence. if they were in my shoes would they really think it fair to find us both guilty of the same thing? if i AM the victim doesnt it make more sense that i WAS trying to defend myself? i find it hard to believe that the DA is taking it this far and really thinks i can be found guilty. on the 1st i spoke to the DA assistant. we went back and forth- i told him " if i am found guilty then that means that i could go to your house start a fight and when you swing back and hit me then your guitly too" he said "yup thats the law" i dont think so ..he's fulla . plus i have a clean record. no priors. and i have witnesses. i feel like taking this all the way to court but with all the crookedness who knows what will happen.



Somehow I suspect a fair number of the other people taking classes have the same concern - they don't want to be in a room with alleged criminals, like you.

You obviously don't believe the advice that has been given to you so go with a jury trial, see what jurors do or don't believe, see if the DA is kidding and come back and let us know what happened.

I think this has turned into a message board and should be closed.

This is what's bad about taking the classes- lets say they don't dismiss the charge after I take these classes--they will have the opportunity to say --" so you admit you have a problem..you have been taking classes for it" then I'm screwed even more than before. People on this "message board" have been telling me not to lay down. Taking the classes would be a way of laying down. The system/DA is trying to screw me and get this win. Its wrong that their win is more important then screwing up someone's life with a criminal record.. someone that only tried to defend himself in his own home AGAINST SOMEONE THAT WAS FOUND GUILTY OF ASSULTING HIM.

Hello again, eric:

If you take the deal, you are going to plead GUILTY!! That means you are admitting that you assaulted somebody. That means you ARE a criminal and you'll be in class with OTHER criminals, just like you.

So, don't get hung up on the class. You're only doing it because it's part of your deal. You don't have to pass. You don't have to agree with anything they say.

But, let me say again, one last time, because you want the law to be the way YOU want it to be - and it AIN'T.

You say, that if you swing back, you're NOT guilty of anything. In fact, you are. It would be MY thoughts, that if you go to trial, you'll be found guilty, and you'll spend some time in the gray bar hotel.

But, I like people who don't lay down. I like people who fight the good fight... I DON'T like people who put their heads inside the noose for their executioners, and I think that's what you're doing.

excon

EXCON: what would you do?? Take the classes or fight in court? Because I'm not understanding your post. Its conflicting with it self.

Self defense law says you can use force against another if unlawful force is being used against you. So I think I can swing back and not be guilty in this case. I was hit with a bottle before I swung back. Before I swung back I told the person to leave my house.. instead of leaving this person attacked me.. thats when I swung back once and then it ended.

Post guilty or innocent

Hello again, eric:

Don't be mislead by the CLASSES. They're going to be over SOON. A conviction on your record, however, will last FOREVER, and will cause you MUCH more trouble than a few lousy classes. So, I would start thinking a little longer term.

Look. I don't know what happened. I don't know ANYTHING other than what you've said. I wouldn't and couldn't tell you how to plead given the limited information that I have.

That's WHY you have a lawyer. HE knows what happened. More importantly, HE knows what THEY know. HE knows the laws. HE knows the prosecutor. HE knows the judge. HE'S the one who you should listen to. If you don't trust him, get one that you do.

I know that's not going to happen... I'm sorry you're choices aren't good. But, they're YOUR choices.

This ISN'T rocket science. The law they're charging you with is VERY specific, and contains certain elements. If you DID what the law says you CAN'T do, then you're guilty. If you DIDN'T do what the law says you can't do, then you're not guilty. There's no in between. You COULD read the law all by yourself, you know.

excon

excon you say my choices aren't good but I haven't really made any chioces yet. The only thing I've done so far was managed to get myself a court appointed lawyer. (that saved me a lot of money) that wasn't a good choice? I'm trying to decide what to do. You make it sound like the class is the way to go but that seems like laying down to me. And you don't like people who lay down. You sound more confused than me.

Hello again, eric:

There's no confusion over here. I LOVE people who make the RIGHT decisions. If you're NOT guilty, and can beat the charges in court - YOU'RE da man.

If you're GUILTY, and take the deal - YOU'RE da man.

If you're GUILTY, and you manage to beat them in court - YOU'RE REALLY da man.

But, if you're GUILTY, and you're offered a good deal, and you turn it down, and they CONVICT you, and you go to the slam - you AIN'T da man.

If I was there, I could tell you what to do. But I wasn't - and I won't.

excon

Eric, you cannot change the law, it is what it is no matter how you feel about it.

You are either innocent or guilty according to the law. You have a lawyer who knows the law and is recommending that you take this course. If you decide not to and want to fight this in court then you may be found guilty according to the law.

It doesn't matter whether you think you're guilty, it's whether you are guilty according to the law.

You don't want to lay down, would you rather be pushed down?

You have a lawyer, you either trust that he knows the law and is giving you good advice, or you find one that you do trust.

Good luck.

Now my lawyer is saying if I will take an anger management class (1 class for 75.00) my case will be dissmissed. This might be my best bet. Its still messed up though... I guess a man's home isn't his castle after all... and I'm not saying that a man should have a right to beat up whoever in his home.. thats not what happened. That one man got away with shooting a man in the back for robbing his neighbor but I'm not supposed to hit someone in self defense when I'm being assulted in my own home. (one swing is what happened and it was over)what does anger management have to do with that? Go figure.

what does anger management have to do with that? go figure.Hello again, eric:

You may very well have gotten this deal because you DIDN'T lay down right away... And, THAT is the point of THIS post.

You're all hung up on right and wrong, and justice, and fair, and all sorts of esoteric things...

But, it's about WINNING, and NEGOTIATION, and getting the best deal you can get. Not that other stuff.

These classes have nothing to do with whacking that guy. They have to do with satisfying the court. Look. Do you think peeing in a cup for a few years stopped me from doing what I want?? Nope, it didn't, but it made THEM happy.

Now, if you want to talk about that esoteric stuff, OK.

Justice happens! Not, because of YOUR case, or because of ANY individual case, and it may not have even happened in your case. But, justice, with a capital J, happens in the aggregate. It happens that way, because our system calls for two lawyers fighting out on an even playing field, thousands and thousands of times a day.

excon

Yes, I will agree with excon, the American legal system is not justice, it is not right or wrong, it is legal or not legal, and it is what can be proved or not proved.

The majority of all court actions in criminal cases are plead out in some agreement.

And can both people be found guilty yes they can

I took the anger management class... one Saturday 9-5 for 75.00... I went to court yesterday and they dissmissed my case. Yes, I'm glad its over..

i took the anger management class...one saturday 9-5 for 75.00....i went to court yesterday and they dissmissed my case. yes, im glad its over..



Sounds like a good result and one you can live with.

Honestly glad it worked out for you. Maybe someone else can learn something from the thread. I hope you stick around.