Why are we all so obsessed w/ the way OTHER people look? If she's obese, can you be friends w/ her anyway and just get to know her FOR HER? If she's a stone fox can you go beyond her surface and get to know HER for her? Why is so difficult to be friends w/ people who are a little different?

Do all over weight people have to be ONLY friends w/ one another? Do all hotties have to? Can they not intermingle?

I'm suggesting that a hottie be best friends w/ a big girl, (:eek:). I am also suggesting that people imagine that beyond the surface there lives a personality that has feelings and emotions, opinions, intelligence, plus plus...

Why do we judge people by their exterior? I know it's insecurity... but why can't we all take the opportunity to get to know one another with out the fear and insecurity.

For that matter, while we're at it: Can the working class have friends who are wealthy and living in manshions, driving Bentley's? And visa verse?

I'm curious how you all might answer...

I think it's how society has trained people how to act towards others SweetDee.

Men have their girlie mags, women have their fashion mags. The guys think they have to have a hottie on their arm, so their loser friends don't make fun of them, and the girls need to have the hot guy, and one up their gf's on what kind of purse or pair of shoes they have.

I personally think it's a little crazy, because even the hottest girl in the world can be the biggest B*tch, and have a hollow inside, and the same go for the guys.

I have known some pretty hot guys that have asked me out, but I usually fall for the ones that seem to have more on the inside, than on the outside. (although that hasn't always worked for me either, lol) A pretty person can get ugly really quick if they have a nasty outlook, and attitude.

I'm 5'7"/140lbs, but I've been up to 180 before. I got treated differently. But, regardless of anyone's weight, I judged them by their inside. However, I did have a friend that was extremely over weight. I always liked her, and hung out with her. She decided to get gastric bypass surgery, and now she snubs me, even though I stuck around when everyone else made fun of her.

So my conclusion, is that it is totally about the character you have, and how willing you are to look past the outer shell.

I agree.. it really is about the inside and not the outside.

I have a lot of beautiful friends that are so confident and easy to be around, including myself... I just wish people could see further than the skin.

I have stories to tell about those who snub those whom are "physically advantaged".. lol. It's as difficult to be accepted as a beautiful woman than it is to be accepted as an unattractive one. The comparables are equivalent. It's all just too ridiculous!

I think it may be a throw back to our cave man days where your overall health and perhaps even intelligence was determined by how you look. Shiny hair, clear eyes, good teeth, not too thin, not too fat, etc. That instinct has been warped by our own insecurities and vanity. I once had a "friend" in college that actually said to my face that she liked to go to parties with me because I made her look skinnier.

Funnily enough, I think barriers like that start disappearing with age.

Really.

I think people are less concerned about looks and money as you get older--because by the time you're 40, NO ONE looks like they did at 15. Money--well, depending on attitude and interests, people of all incomes can certainly be great friends. ESPECIALLY now that we're becoming more and more electronic in some of our friendships. For all I know, some of the people on this site are millionaires.

In any case, I'm friends with people that have the same interests as I do, not people the same size as me or in the same income bracket.

I think aging is a saving grace really for some women whom have had a difficult time negotiating friendships in their life time. At least for me.

I had never really be comfortable HAVING to participate w/ women whom gravitate toward me due to my looks. A lot of attractive women like to befriend other's of their sameness. For me I've always been attracted to females that are intelligent or humorous and have many commonalities.

The school that I volunteer at is very segregational. It's bizarre, really. They oddly discount you if you don't drive a certain class of car or wear a large enough diamond on your left hand, (for those that are single, you're "stones" must have some monetary significance), aside from your attractiveness, however if you're a "stone fox" that transcends it ALL... (lol!! )

Maybe it's just this crazy little town I live in... but imagine how silly this all is! And imagine this EXISTS, (I'm living this:eek:!! ).

Believe me SweetDee, it is not exclusive to where you live at all! I sorrily understood everything you said!

The one with the most toys wins right?! It doesn't seem to matter if you have brains, and you are a great person with humility. If you look good and have good "stuff" that is what the shallow people gravitate towards. The girls as well as the guys.

I was always told by men, that because I was pretty and had a nice body, that I was unaproachable, until they found out that I was just as nervous as they were in the awkward situations. I found I got more attention with my sense of humour, and the fact that I didn't judge people on their looks.

I'm so glad to hear someone say something similar to what I have/am going through. I had a couple of friends in college that were very beautiful and did very well using humor. I wasn't so good with humor back then, but now I'm pretty awesome, (age is a lovely gift... it sometimes comes with maturity and the confidence to use my God given humor.. lol!). I struggle still w/ people gravitating toward me for the wrong reason... and then I befriend them.. and then I end up regretting it. My closest friend always tells me to stick to my old group and not bother w/ anyone one else. So far she's right. I don't want her to be right, though.

It does make me feel better to know that it's not JUST my retarded town! LMAO...

Why are we all so obsessed w/ the way OTHER people look? If she's obese, can you be friends w/ her anyway and just get to know her FOR HER? If she's a stone fox can you go beyond her surface and get to know HER for her? Why is so difficult to be friends w/ people who are a little different?

Do all over weight people have to be ONLY friends w/ one another? Do all hotties have to? Can they not intermingle?

I'm suggesting that a hottie be best friends w/ a big girl, (:eek:). I am also suggesting that people imagine that beyond the surface there lives a personality that has feelings and emotions, opinions, intelligence, plus plus...

Why do we judge people by their exterior? I know it's insecurity... but why can't we all take the opportunity to get to know one another with out the fear and insecurity.

For that matter, while we're at it: Can the working class have friends who are wealthy and living in manshions, driving Bentley's? And visa verse?

I'm curious how you all might answer...
Always dress for the job or occasion. You can always reinvent yourself.

Always dress for the job or occasion. You can always reinvent yourself.

I don't understand what any of that had to do with the way you dress. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: :p lollllllllll, me neither

:rolleyes: :p lollllllllll, me neither

Well I thought I might get some hot pants on today, and off to the supermarket I go! Oops... forgot to shave my legs! Do I have to shave my legs for this? :eek: :p

Lol!!

I don't think their called "hot pants" anymore. LMAO! It's called "short shorts", no?

starbuck8, you make me LAUGH...

Xoxoxoxo

I don't think their called "hot pants" anymore. LMAO! It's called "short shorts", no?

starbuck8, you make me LAUGH...

xoxoxoxo

Well I decided I wouldn't shave my legs for that, went the supermarket, and no guys even noticed my unshaven legs when I was squeezing the big ripe tomatoes, and checking them for firmness! LOL! ;) :p

[QUOTE=Comments on this post
SweetDee agrees: I'm in a retarded town in Montreal, Quebec. Doesn't get any worse, TRUST ME...[/QUOTE]



I have posted this before and will probably post this again - this whole "retarded" business, the flippant use of the word, is disrespectful and disheartening to anyone with a special needs person in the family.

Please don't use it.

[QUOTE=Comments on this post - starbuck8 agrees: You're right Judy. I certainly didn't mean that to be offensive when I replied. I could have chosen a better word to describe what I meant. No offense was intended..[/QUOTE]



Thanks for the apology but you're not the one who posted it and I know you well enough to know you aren't going to use it in the future (I've never seen you use the word, in fact) so it's not even an apology in advance! :)

But I appreciate your comment.

Starbuck, I'll be leaving my house to go food shopping and I have no intention of shaving eitherrrrr!! You gave me "the power"!! And the confidence!

POWER TO THE UNSHAVEN LEG!

:( My luck everyone will noticeee... LMAO! Xo

I would like to proclaim the week starting Sept 8th world wide unshaven legs week! Do I hear a second motion ladies? :p

Gee thanks.

I shaved mine last night.

Gee thanks.

I shaved mine last night.

Well you live in a different country than me, so let me see! Time difference... uhmmm... 12 minus 4... carry the 2... divide by 8... okay... I think you're good to go. Your week will start on Friday! :p

Psssst...


I don't shave my legs until they itch. Period. I just don't care enough, and wear pants most of the time anyway.

Why bother? LOL!

YouTube - Did I Shave My Legs For This - Deana Carter - Subtitled (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nicq9gLhfYY)

In the uk it's not cool to be hanging out with a person who doesn't wear the latest gear or have an up to date haircut or drive the hottests car etc...

It seems to be who your seen with, if your out on the town and you're a cool dude but your mate is overweight and a bit of an anorack, it means should you pull a couple of girls, then they won't hang around for long because one of them has to have the anorack, consequently you don't pull that night, if your both cool then the girls each have a dude they want to be with... sad but true.

As we get older it doesn't matter so much, it's more about personality.

My stepkids are all in the UK now. My boy is the worst for needing everything that is the latest rage. Even my little (step) Grandbabe, knows the latest gear! He just turned 3 for crying out loud! I sent over an outfit, and he told mommy it didn't have the right tag! It's crazy! But if the kids don't wear the designer crap, they are teased and bullied. Actually makes me angry!

My God... my mom used to send us to school when it was raining, (and she had forgotten to buy raincoats) in Glad garbage bags over our clothes. She didn't drive us there either! Our friends still liked us, and actually learned that in a pinch, you could wear a garbage bag with a hole cut out for your head, to keep you dry! LOL! I'm not even all that old you guys... but that's how much it's changed. Maybe someone working for GLAD, should start making designer labels for their bags, and sell them in boxes of 40, like they do! LOL!

People can get ugly really quick, if they don't have the personality to match their looks.

You know how MY parents handled the "is it cool enough" thing?

Once we turned 12, and could get a paper route, or babysit--earn our own money--they bought us our gym clothes, 1 pair of jeans, one pair of dress pants, a sweater, a set of pajamas, our underwear and socks, and 2 t-shirts.

Everything else, we had to buy ourselves.

Once I had to choose between "cool" and "affordable"---I made my OWN cool.

Style and fashion are two different things, and too many kids fall for marketing of fashion rather than making their own style.

What I used to do with my stepkids, and neice/nephew, is go to thrift shops, buy something... whatever it was, with a designer label. I would sew the label into their clothes that I bought, and use a little creativity, and make the clothes unique, and different. I would even do it with their shoes! I used paint, and other things, and made cool designs. All of their friends asked what store they bought them at, so they could get some. They told them what I said to say. My Mom/Auntie, bought them some expensive store the last time she was on a trip! LOL! It was a trip all right... a trip to Walmart, or the nearest thrift shop!

Wow starbuck8 that's really creative!!

... and a helluva lot cheaper! Instead of buying those expensive little juice boxes they take to school, I bought a bunch of cheapie plastic containers at the dollar store, and then rocked them out too! LOL! I did a lot of things like that. I'm not a cheap person, but I just hate paying the big companies for their labels... and the kids sure got better B'day and C'mas presents with the money I would have spent on something they would have grown out of, or chucked in the garbage in 30 seconds.

(Call me Starby... everyone else does ;) )

I'm with you Starby, I can't see paying more simply because someone's name is on it and I also do not like my kids being used as billboards for some designer.

Once upon a time paying more for a garment meant you were getting quality. Now it just proves how silly some people are.

My daughter just turned 7 and I am doing my best to develop a positive body image. That fit, not size is important and just because somebody says you must have this "fill in the blank" doesn't mean you have to be a lemming and do what everyone else does.

I love my neighborhood thrift store (just next door to work) and I am the clearance rack queen. I never stop at the front of the store and buy next summer's clothes now.

I'm not cheap - I'm financially aware.

Emland, the kids used to come over to the house and beg me to rock out their clothes! Even the ones that had the designer crap! I may not have a lot of book smarts, but give me a crafty thing anyday, and I'll have a blast! I've always bought my clothes, shoes and purses etc at Thrift stores, yard and garage sales (there's a lot of good stuff there!) or Walmart, K-Mart, Winners, and just like that show "pimp my ride"... well I pimped my clothes... LOL!

I was constantly asked where I got them, and got compliments all of the time. Do you think I ever told anyone that I got my jacket for a buck fifty at a yard sale?. I think not! LOL! ;)

Just popping back to the original question here... ;)

I'd be lying if I said I didn't judge people on how they look, sure I do! I'm with Emland, I think it harks back to natural selection, where your best bet of passing on your DNA and having it survive would be by picking the healthiest mate.

The snag with the rich mingling with the poor is that it makes both sides feel bad. The rich feel bad for having the money, the poor feel bad for not having it! If they don't feel bad, then they probably won't end up being friends anyway! Ha ha! :p

Back in the day, I used to babysit for a very well to do woman. She still liked to hit garage sales and would bring home stuff that people had put out to trash and transform it into garden art, etc.

She only went to garage sales in neighborhoods she considered more upscale that her own. She told me to never go to yard sales in my own neighborhood - you would only find the same stuff you have at home.

Just popping back to the original question here ... ;)

I'd be lying if I said I didn't judge people on how they look, sure I do! I'm with Emland, I think it harks back to natural selection, where your best bet of passing on your DNA and having it survive would be by picking the healthiest mate.

The snag with the rich mingling with the poor is that it makes both sides feel bad. The rich feel bad for having the money, the poor feel bad for not having it! If they don't feel bad, then they probably won't end up being friends anyway! Ha ha! :p

Hmmm... I'm not too sure about that one now that I think of it in that context. I grew up around money. We always had pretty much whatever we wanted, although we did have to work for what we got, and definitely our allowance when we were young. My family still lives the "charmed" life, but I've always treated, and judged people by the way they treat other people, and not what they have in their bank account. I don't feel bad for them, because I know how to put myself in their shoes. It all comes down to character and morals, in my opinion.

I can see where you're coming from Starby. I was looking at it this way though; most of my friends earn roughly the same amount of money as I do, this means when we want to get together, we can organise something we know we can all afford.

Now if I earned a considerable amount more than they did, I'd be worried that if I suggested something, it would either be too expensive for them to do, or that it would seem I was being cheap. This would obviously affect our relationship.

Conversly, if they earned a lot more than me, aside from the jealousy I'd feel, I'd worry again that anything my friends decided to do would be either too expensive for me, or aimed 'down' at my price range.

I guess this is where the social 'class' system came from. Being around people on your level! :D

That's very true Hunter! It really does become a bit of a problem at that point. I would feel like if I invited my friends somewhere that is not within their price range, I would almost feel obligated to make it my job to make it less expensive for them, one way or another. Keeping in mind, I don't have an awful lot of money myself, but people think I do, because of my family. Haha! I know both sides of the fence! ;)

My parents are snowbirds in Florida, and they expect that I can just jump a plane at the drop of a hat, and I can just jet off down there!

Ah, you're one of the lucky few then!

It's like when I hear lottery winners say "It's not going to change me!", whilst they clutch their cheque for umpteen million pounds!

Yeah, it wouldn't change me either... honest! :rolleyes:

Well, we all want our "toys" and "stuff". I can't say for sure what I would do if I won a lot of money in a lottery. I would love to say I would donate a lot to 'causes', but would I really? Guess you can't say for sure until you've got that cheque in your clenched fists! ;)

A Ferrari is sounding really nice! LOL

There's a Flaming Lips song (http://www.stlyrics.com/songs/t/theflaminglips1530/theyeahyeahyeahsongwithallyourpower1170437.html) that alludes to the same thing, with the lyrics;


It's a very dangerous thing to do exactly what you want,
Because you cannot know yourself or what you'd really do,
With all your power.

Which I think is very true. As much as people like to think they're kind hearted, when you're actually in that situation, I think most people would look after themselves first!

And hell yeah I'd have a Ferrari too! Woop!

I come from a well to do family too and everyone thinks that because of that we have money in the bank, which we do not... Appearances are tricky too, it almost gives people the same illusion and confirms it.

I'm the kind of person that saves and saves for things that are very beautiful and once I have enough money I make the purchase. I use upscale home magazines to help me w/ my decorating choices. They're my "bible" for keeping me on task. I find a mag. That has a few pics of the look I am trying to achieve and then I copy it, (I don't have any natural talent for decorating.. ). I live in a house that looks like it came straight out of Architectural Digest, thanks to my knack for copying... lol!

I would rather have an empty room than fill it w/ things that are not "the look" I'm going for. A lot of times I have found my nick-knacks at a second hand store or garage sale as well. I'm very specific on the look for this house and it's "antique/elegant/rustic/cozy". I have pulled off the look amazingly.

We want to down size now... and look for a smaller home. To me that means that it's a new project to undertake. It's going to be a blast deciding what style to label the next home! (I wonder which magazines will become my guidelines.. )

Oh yes, also I wanted to add.. when my daughter was in elementary she only wore clothes from second hand stores. They WERE already labels, it's that they were already used. All she wanted was the "look"... and at that age it was easy. Now that she's 16 it really IS about labels and it's impossible to trick her in any way...

I don't believe that all people do this. My group of besties include Danielle (super-fit beautiful tattooed girl), Ashley (wheel-chair bound free spirit super feminist), and Rudy (8th grade best friend, he used to be overweight and now he's a chick magnet), I'm the token chubby chick. I love all my friends and everyone else for who they are.

I see people's reactions to physical differences in people on a daily basis. I work with developmentally disabled adults. When we go to the doctor or on a daily outting, people stare.

I suppose the problem with staring at 'different' people is whether the people being started at want to be or not!

Obviously people with an illness or birth defect may not want to be seen as different and so won't, whereas a punk, with multiple piercings and a pink mohawk blatantly wants to stand out from the crowd!

I look at 'different' people all the time, I suppose I'm just curious and intrigued by them... then again, it doesn't take a lot to be 'different' in my books!

I have 9 holes total in my ears. I have a tattoo---discreet, and not publicly viewable. My navel is pierced. And--when I was in college--I've had every hair color that is imaginable.

I most DEFINITELY did not do ANY of the above for shock value. I did it for the fun of it, and because it was a way of expressing myself. Believe me, if I didn't have to look "professional" for work, I would STILL be doing wacky things with my hair, including multiple colors at once.

Dying your hair purple is no more (and no less!) a bid for attention than wearing designer clothing or buying a Prada bag.

I hope this isn't starting to stray from the topic...

I know what you're saying Synnen, but when you were doing all these things did you think "Ah, no-one will pay any attention to this!"?

I meant, to be more specific, people that get many piercings and tatoos. Like piercings all the way across their eyebrows, or all over their face, and get large tatoos on their faces, neck, or somewhere that will always be visible. The hair color is a minor thing, that can be easily corrected, as yes it's usually a fun thing, and I used to do it too. I basically meant the people who do all of these things at a time, and how they really are seen. It's too bad that people are judged this way, but they are.

But even something as simple as multi-colored hair, you really can't get too upset when people stare. It's not the norm, and people will look and judge, which isn't a good thing, but it's to be expected. But if you are looking for a respectable job, most times unless you are looking for that job in the creative arts field, it will be looked down upon in the professional sense. I'm not saying I agree with that, but that's the way society is.

Nope. Not at all what I was thinking.

But--What's the point of the designer clothing if not to get attention? Where's the difference between blue hair and $400 blue jeans?

Style is style is style---and we each have our own. It's just that the people with a more traditional view of style have issues with those of us that would LOVE to change our hair color weekly, just for the fun of it. How is changing my hair color to something unusual every season different from the girls that HAVE to have clothing from the new fashion season--regardless how ridiculous THOSE fashions are? (I mean, come on! Who the HELL thought that wedges should come back? What idiot was THAT?)

Very true! A plunging neckline will get my attention just as much as a head of blue hair!

I don't like the fact people look and judge by appearances, but it's just the way society is!
There is a 'norm' that (the majority of) society sticks to and sees as 'acceptable' in everyday situations. If you don't conform, then you are an outsider, regardless of what sort of person you are on the inside, and you will get stared at, and comments will be made.

But as you say, each person has their own views on style. But if you chose a 'different' style, you should be ready for the repercussions.

Now if you're different through no choice of your own... a physical / mental defect or the such, you are, unfortunately, still as vunerable to the stares and comments, but through no fault of your own. That's just the way people are I'm afraid.

I agree w/ so many of you it's not even funny. I agree that if you are out of the "norm" people will judge you in a negative fashion if you're applying for a conservative type job... It pisses me off so much because the most awesome people I have ever met were those that wore their personalities in their hair design and in their piercings/tattoos.

The type of staring when it's done to a person whom suffers an outward physical disability is a WHOLE other type of stare... not what this tread is about even a little...

As far as being prepared for the repercussions, I feel that the times are changing a little. I know a few people who are very funky and interesting to enjoy and they are in computers and "profiling".

Times are changing...

Whether you need to be conventional in your job completely depends on your job.

I know a guy that makes 6 figures, no joke, who has a blue mohawk, lots of earrings, pierced eyebrows, a nose ring, a tattoo on his neck, wears ratty jeans and flannels and combat boots. He's a software designer.

I, on the other hand, have the "respectable" position of assistant registrar. People EXPECT me to look like a fuddy duddy.

Bah.

Synnen, you will never be a fuddy duddy.

I have a tattoo, it is visible, but I didn't do it to get noticed, I did it in remembrance of my parents, and it's visible because to me that was important, I wanted to share my grief, and my healing. :)

I have colored my hair, but never a really outrageous color, red is probably the most "risky" color I've had.

I have four piercings, all in my ears. :) I'd love to get a belly piercing, but I've had two kids, the belly is not going to be seen by the public! ;)

Last year I was shopping with my son, and this young man, dressed head to toe in black, wearing army boots a trench jacket, all black, multi colored mohawk, piercings everywhere (he would have set of the metal detectors in the airport) and a tattoo, came up and asked me what time it was. I told him, and he was about to walk away when my son said "I love your mohawk!" The young guy turned to him, put out his hand and said "high five little dude!" Jared was thrilled and asked the guy if he'd like to go to the food court with us, we were getting ice cream. The guys said "I don't think your mom would like that". I asked him why he'd think that. He looked at me, puzzled, and said "Most moms don't like the way I look". My response, "I'm not most moms". He declined our invite because he was late for something, but we see him once in a while, and we always wave to him, and he waves back. He's a nice guy, the outside is just that, and you can't judge a book by it's cover.

Hi Sweetdee... an anorak, is a padded jacket with a hood that pulls in around the face if it's cold and wet... mostley worn in the late 60's, although today people do still wear them.

Usually kids who don't have the latest gear or kids who are made to wear them by their parents are now known as anoraks... a bit of a divey.

These days you don't even have to be wearing one, if the persons a bit slow on the uptake of something... a bit dry so to speak then their automtically referred to as... "he's a right anorak".. the sort of person that might go train spotting.

I hope you understand what I mean, it's very difficult to put into words.



No disrespect intended to any one that wears an anorak.

I think it's terrible you are all saying that someone without tattoos and piercings is 'the norm', this is what feels normal to some people! I could understand even ten years ago why people would be shocked to see coloured hair, piercings and tattoos but now we see it all the time walking down the street! I think if you are going to start that you have to answer what is 'normal'?

Synnen I cannot agree more that people don't do it for attention, it is as natural to them as buying designer jeans is to others!

Back to topic...
I think sometimes a 'hotty' will be friends with a 'big girl' but I think, depending on the personalities, it has the same effect as discussed about money - they both end up feeling bad! Sometimes the 'hotty' will feel bad when she gets all the male attention and the 'big girl' will feel bad because she sees her friend the 'hotty' is only wanted for her body and doesn't make real male friends!

But they're (or should that be "we're") not normal! I don't think society has a definition of 'normal'... but it's very easy to pick out things that are 'abnormal'.

Tattoos, outlandish hair syles, crazy fashion... they're all breaking away from what society sees as conventional. Surely the people doing this know this fact?

You've got to admit that tattoos have a whole ream of negative connotations attached to them. In some cultures they're linked to gang warfare. In some religions they're banned. Sometimes they are marks of time served in prison. I know the number of people having tattoos may be on the rise, but I bet the majority of people would be horrified at the thought of having one done!

Let's face it, save the few odd careers, if you've got a wacky haircut, facial piercings or tattoos that can't easily be covered up, you're not going to get the job over that 'normal' person! I know it's a terrible indictment of the way society views things, but it's just the way it is!

Just a fun fact, as of 2004 24% of Americans between 24-50 are tattooed.

Just a fun fact, as of 2004 24% of Americans between 24-50 are tattooed.

Yep, and;

The highest incidence of tattoos was found among the gay, lesbian and bisexual population (25%)...

:D

That makes sense since 2.5 to 3% of the American population is Gay, Lesbian or Bisexual.

Also, another statistic. 83% of people that have tattoos do not regret the decision.

Ok iAm! I think that is kind of the point we don't have a definition for 'normal' but why should anyone who has tattoos or peircings be singled out more than someone who treats Topshop as a religious pillar?

I also consider your point about tattoos in certain cultures being a negative thing, however in some cultures they are used to celebrate rite of passage and are not a negative thing at all! I am personally a lot more scared of other so called 'conventional' people in society than someone with a bit of flare to them!

(By the way, a friend of mine showed me a book in which there was a section dedicated to women in the 1950's being covered in tattoos, they also still wore the 'Better Homes' dresses and I think they looked awesome! Haha!)

Also, another statistic. 83% of people that have tattoos do not regret the decision.

Or 17% of people that have tattoos regret the decision! Ha ha! :D

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

(By the way, a friend of mine showed me a book in which there was a section dedicated to women in the 1950's being covered in tattoos, they also still wore the 'Better Homes' dresses and I think they looked awesome! Haha!)

And that style is definitely coming back!

... why should anyone who has tattoos or peircings be singled out more than someone who treats Topshop as a religious pillar?

Because you can very easily change your clothes for various situations, it's much more difficult to change hair / remove tattoos / cover up piercing holes. Topshop is a highstreet store, so is part of current fashion trends. Topshop do some very nice stuff actually! Ha ha!

I honestly don't know how anyone can think having a tattoo is a conventional thing... I'm dumbfounded! :confused:

I have two tattoos planned. Every single one of my friends has at least one, my Dad had 17, and was a tattoo artist. 90% of the people at both of my jobs have tattoos. So FOR ME it IS the norm. I think it really depends on the environment that you are in.

Yep, it's the same for me ChihauhauMomma, I've got two, my Dad has two... my girlfriend has LOADS! Ha ha! A lot of people at my work have them, because it doesn't matter to our employers or to the job we do...

BUT, it's still not normal! At least not to 76% of Americans between 24-50 according to your stats! Ha ha!

I know it's sad to say, but there's certain people that I wouldn't want to see tattooed, or with any other 'modifications'... my bank manager, doctors and nurses, teachers, newscasters, police officers... I could go on, but I think you get the idea!

I honestly don't know how anyone can think having a tattoo is a conventional thing ... I'm dumbfounded! :confused:

I think the point is that people who have tattoos and piercings shouldn't be looked at like freaks! I think it's disgusting people who are perfectly capable of doing a job would be turned away due to a tattoo!

Wasn't there a case not too long ago of someone being turned away from the military for having a tat?

Oh and by the way iAM, piercing holes don't offend people! In fact people usually hardly notice unless someone points them out!

Just because those people don't have tattoos doesn't mean that they deem them "abnormal".

Tattoos, piercings, and other modifications are a external representation of who we are internally. Self expression.

Just thought I'd add--My doctor that I work with is 45, has five degrees, and is a very successful doctor has three tattoos and five piercings. You can still have them and be "normal" and be discreet.

I think the point is that people who have tattoos and piercings shouldn't be looked at like freaks! I think it's disgusting people who are perfectly capable of doing a job would be turned away due to a tattoo!

Wasn't there a case not too long ago of someone being turned away from the military for

I agree with you, but it doesn't change anything I'm afraid!

I've not read anything about that story, but yeah, if you have offensive tattoos, or tattoo that are conspicious (on your hands, face, neck) you'll be turned away. Also, whilst in the UK military, you should request authority from your chain of command before you get a tattoo!


Just because those people don't have tattoos doesn't mean that they deem them "abnormal".

Yep, but because we can't ask them all, they may do! :D


Tattoos, piercings, and other modifications are a external representation of who we are internally. Self expression.

Indeed they are, but a lot of people will judge you because of them and, to bring this thread back to it's point, they will be judging your book, wrongly or rightly, by it's cover!

Don't get me wrong here people I LOVE tattoo, piercings and coloured hair. Suicidegirls is one of my favourite websites. But I love it BECAUSE it's alternative!

Ooooh, 'alternative'... maybe I should have used that word from the outset! :)

I know it's sad to say, but there's certain people that I wouldn't want to see tattooed, or with any other 'modifications' ... my bank manager, doctors and nurses, teachers, newscasters, police officers ... I could go on, but I think you get the idea![/QUOTE]


Why would you find tatoos on bank managers, doctors, nurses, teachers, etc. offensive? In your eyes would it make these people less qualified to do their jobs?

Not that I think newscasters necessarily know what they are talking about, tattoos or not.

I wouldn't find them offensive... I just think they're in positions of resposibility and as such should portray that in their appearance, bearing and deportment.

I don't think it would make them any less qualified either, as, I suppose, this photo is supposed to show;
http://neatorama.cachefly.net/images/2007-09/tattooed-doctor.jpg

I'm saying that people will, without a shadow of a doubt, without a second thought, instantly judge you if: you have a tattoo, an unusual piercing, an unusual dress sense, an unusual haircut, a physical disability, a mental disability, if you're too fat, too thin, wear glasses, have strange teeth (which, if you're American, is the whole of England apparently! He he!), have ginger hair, have NO hair... (should I go on?)

I wouldn't find them offensive ... I just think they're in positions of resposibility and as such should portray that in their appearence, bearing and deportment.

I don't think it would make them any less qualified either, as, I suppose, this photo is supposed to show;
http://neatorama.cachefly.net/images/2007-09/tattooed-doctor.jpg

I'm saying that people will, without a shadow of a doubt, without a second thought, instantly judge you if: you have a tattoo, an unusual piercing, an unusual dress sense, an unusual haircut, a physical disability, a mental disability, if you're too fat, too thin, wear glasses, have strange teeth (which, if you're American, is the whole of England apparently! He he!), have ginger hair, have NO hair ... (should I go on?)



I don't think there's that instant judging without a second thought or shadow of a doubt any longer. People were afraid of HD motorcycle riders at one time - now HDs are owned by Doctors, Lawyers, police officers. Things have changed.

I interview thousands of people a year and find there is no longer a preconceived notion on the part of witnesses about how a professional is supposed to look or dress.

Attorneys, during jury selection, no longer pay much attention to appearance, assuming it indicates a mindset or "class" (for lack of a better word) or level of education.

May very well be different in the UK.

Wowee, America - a land free from discrimination then?

I'm off out to buy my airplane ticket now! Ha ha!

Wowee, America - a land free from discrimination then?

I'm off out to buy my airplane ticket now! Ha ha!



Ha ha! Probably a good idea.

I didn't say there's no discrimination - I said I don't think it rises to the level you've described.

I'm not sure which side of the fence I'm on here. I think it depends on exactly where you live. I live in a relatively small town, and I know that here, if you have visible tats, unusual piercings, a weird hair color, that you will not get that bank job, that PR job, that pulic figure, or most other high opportunity jobs, if you have these visible things.

I believe it's quite a bit different in larger area's, where it has started to become more acceptable, but the small cities?. it just isn't accepted the same way. A lot of people where I live, definitely do judge because of the way an individual appears on the outside. I don't think it's because they are meaning to be ignorant, I think it's because they really don't see it too much, and their immediate reaction is to be suspicious, or afraid.

Starbuck, as usual you are right on the money!

It's not the standard to see people w/ any kind of internal flare flashing it on their exterior and being well respected in a lousy small town... which is why the second my daughter is out of high school we're moving out of this tiny close minded town!

Times are changing and big cities and larger towns have people of all different ethnicities and external visible "bells and whistles". It's awesome to see!

I struggle here in this close minded town. I may not adorn any kind of outward decorative display of inner f.y.I. but I do feel very connected and identify w/ people who are open minded and easy going about the external "view".

It's very oppressive to be judged. I think that I have been judged my whole life. I used to have a virtual nervous tick about it... lol, (jks!), but by now I've made peace w/ it. It just still angers me when I have to listen to some people go on and on about those they don't even know... and have a negative reaction toward.

Exactly Sweet Dee. Something else just came to mind. My sister lives Charlotte, NC. which of course is a very large city. She is an employment recruiter in the medical field, for a large company. It is written right into their contract, that they are to be no visible tatoos, piercings, (other than ears) and no outlandish hair styles or colors. They also of course have a strict dress code.

My sister has 3 tatoos, none of which you can see if she dresses right. One is the Canadian Flag on her back, then a cartoon character on her ankle, and a chinese symbol on her hip. I do remember her telling me that one of her colleagues got fired, for getting a visible tattoo. So it really isn't as acceptable in the workplace, as some might think. A lot of these places do have contract to sign in order to be employed with a specific company, or like Hunter said, the police force and so on.

Just one more quick example. My niece had an eyebrow piercing, and she had pink and blue hair at the time. She applied for a job at Quisnos (sub shop) and they told her that they would not hire her unless she dyed her hair back to a 'normal' color, and took out the piercing when she came to work. She didn't do that, but ended up with a job as a delivery driver, which paid much less.

I work for a small company and my boss won't hire anyone for the counter that has visible piercings anywhere other than the ears. So far, we have never had anyone with a tattoo apply (mostly women).

The company also runs an answering service and the looks go from normal to the extreme, but the employees don't interact personally with the customer, so the boss doesn't care.

My husband is retired US Navy and nearly every sailor has a tattoo, but it can't be visible. If a sailor decides he wants a sleeve tattoo then he has also decided he wants to wear the long sleeve version of his uniform year round, no matter the climate. Many choose to do just that.

My sister works for the public school system and she also has a dress code, hair code and no tatts clause in her contract. Since she is Miss Coldwater Creek, that isn't a problem for her.

I'm a jeans and sneaker girl and love that my workplace does't require office attire. I would die. My sister, the novelist, makes up for all our normalcy and has 5 tattoos - but it too chicken to get anything pierced. Go figure.

Never judge people, never judge.. :)

It sure is nice to see that there are people whom exist that do not subscribe to the judging side. It heartens me to see this you guys!

So, am I to understand that these wonderful non judgers would just assume not judge a very beautiful friend for being such a man magnet as much as they'd refrain from judging a tatoo'd laden piercing lover? IF SO...

Then there is HOPE.

It sure is nice to see that there are people whom exist that do not subscribe to the judging side. It heartens me to see this you guys!

So, am I to understand that these wonderful non judgers would just assume not judge a very beautiful friend for being such a man magnet as much as they'd refrain from judging a tatoo'd laden piercing lover? IF SO...

Then there is HOPE.



Okay, now you've got me intrigued. You've posted several times that you are a man magnet and very beautiful. Why don't you post your photo?

I think people does judge people sometime in their life one way or another one wayl- whether it is giving that girl in the too-tight outfit a crappy glance - it is still judging or criticizing.

So why do we judge other people? Is it because of jealousy? Dislike? Disappointment? Or is it just a human nature - I mean, is it natural or normal to judge people because we are only human? But when is the judgement taken too far?

Sometimes when I am out with my daughter, who is 7, we see teenagers and sometimes grown men walking down the street with their pants to their knees and you see their underwears I want to say "pull out your pants". Then my daughter ask why is that guys underwear showing and this is in the daytime. Or today I saw this pregnant lady that had to at least be 8 months chain smoking and I wanted to snatch the cigarettes from her hand because who smokes when they are pregnant putting their baby at risk. Also, I dislike when my friend was knowing dating a married man and it took 2 years for me and my friends to talk sense into her. I was judging the people actions not the people itself.

At my job there is also a dress code of do's and dont's. Ladies can't wear minshirts and no visible tattoos. Guys must be clean shaven or if they have facial hair it must be maintain. Also, they are against romantic work relationships. Some jobs that I had in the past none of these things matter but when I sign out for this job you was handed a code of ethics and the do's and don't's and it was very straight forward and clearly written. I guess it basically depends on what type of job you have.

Sometimes when I am out with my daughter, who is 7, we see teenagers and sometimes grown men walking down the street with their pants to their knees and you see their underwears I want to say "pull out your pants". Then my daughter ask why is that guys underwear showing and this is in the daytime. Or today I saw this pregnant lady that had to at least be 8 months chain smoking and I wanted to snatch the cigarettes from her hand because who smokes when they are pregnant putting their baby at risk. Also, I dislike when my friend was knowing dating a married man and it took 2 years for me and my friends to talk sense into her. I was judging the people actions not the people itself.



The big thing right now where I am - and I thought the craze had passed - is pants so low that they are actually UNDER the guy's rear end. I have no idea how people walk.

I see it mostly when I'm working. Maybe it's a gang thing.

I know what you mean about pregnant women smoking - can't believe women who know better take that chance.

And how DO you explain how kids dress to a 7 year old? I took a neighbor's foster child school clothes shopping just for a treat and couldn't BELIEVE the clothes "they" are showing for 7 year olds! I see the middle school kids and the boys look like unplucked chickens and the girls look 20.

Sometimes I'm glad I have dogs and they wear what I tell them to wear - :)

LOL! Hi Judy! Do you know that they are now selling thong underwear for little girls? I mean pre-school!! Now how much more insane can you get than that? And parents are buying them! What the hell is wrong with this picture?

I can't even go shopping for my daughter because everything is cut short. Skirts are micro-mini, pants are low rise, and buying shoes is even a challenge. If I do buy stuff I have to add to it but most of the time I make my daughter own clothes because it is a shame what they make for kids. One time when I was on the train I saw this girl around the same age as my daughter with a micro-miniskirts, tan top, and her shoes had to at least be 4 inches. Everyone on the train was looking at the daughter like what the hell and looking at the mom saying "you should be ashamed to have your daughter dress that way", with their eyes. It ashamed even in kids shoes everything has a heel.

Well I don't know if this is getting a little bit off topic here, but has anyone heard about these "Purity Balls" that the parents are now throwing for their kids? It used to be a simple sweet sixteen party, but now they are planning these purity balls like they are weddings! The parents are spending thousands of dollars, just because their daughter OR son, has signed a piece of paper saying they will remain "pure". Until marriage.

Now does anyone think that will work? Doubt it! The kids want a big party that's all! What happened to just teaching your kids to understand consequences! Has anyone here ever felt like rewarding their child with a huge party for merely respecting herself... or himself?

(just a disclaimer... I was no Angel when I was younger, and I still am probably not in some peoples eyes... I derserve it now though... lol)

My local newspaper wrote an article about "sagging" just last week. Bans on a popular fashion say what sags must come up | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com (http://hamptonroads.com/2008/09/bans-popular-fashion-say-what-sags-must-come)

Here's the photo they used

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i72/emland/167531.jpg

What's really funny is under the photo is a hyperlink that says "click for full view." Uh, thanks, but no thanks.

I can't talk about a fashion trend being stupid - I graduated in 1985 and subjected myself to all sorts of fashion faux pas, but what I don't get is how uncomfortable this must be. I can't stand it if the crotch hangs so much as a half inch. How do they put up with cinching it below their butt?

Fun fact: Sagging was invented by prisoners to let others know they were AVAILABLE for fun, if you know what I'm saying. Now, why that became a trend, I don't know.

One good thing about this trend, it insures that they'll always wear clean underwear. :)

If my son ever decided to leave the house looking like that, I'd lock him in his room until he got some good taste. Underwear is just that, under the things you wear. I just want to yank on the back of this kids pants, give him a wedgie he won't soon forget.

I thought you guys on this thread would find these two articles interesting... I certainly did!

BBC NEWS | Magazine | Making the world understand my face (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7607905.stm)

BBC NEWS | Magazine | How should you react to disfigurement? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7611284.stm)

Hey there! Wow you guys certainly keep things interesting!

Sagging, honestly does not offend me. Trends don't make me feel judgemental. No matter what. I just understand that kids/teens are very highly sensitized to what they look upon as fashion or self propelled expression. It's just that deep, (I think) for them.

I'm surrounded by teens day in and day out... as a mom. I see all kinds of style walk thru' my door. You can't believe what comes into my house! When I get to know these kids, they're all so AWESOME.

I'm not sure who brought up me posting a pic of myself... but I honestly don't know HOW, (I'm computer challenged:( sorry! I'll ask my hubby how one day and then I'll have some.. ). I don't mean to come across like I think I'm "beautiful". That sounds so conceited. I know I am blessed, if I really think about it, but it's been the bane of my existence just the same... as it's hindered me in so many respects, (that TOO sounds conceited. This just can't come across as humble! I can't expect anyone to understand what I mean without it sounding so self absorbed. I just hope you don't think the worst of me for being honest and responding to the comment about my being beautiful... ). The good news is that it is true that with age comes change. It's becoming easier as I age.

Purity Balls sound similar to Sweet 16's in that a big party is set up very extravagantly. I'm not sure how I feel about Purity Balls. On the one hand teens thrive on reward... but on the other it almost feels like an expensive bribe, no? (Couldn't they celebrate absinance on a smaller scale and it be as big a reward? The same could be said for Sweets... )

I thought you guys on this thread would find these two articles interesting ... I certainly did!

BBC NEWS | Magazine | Making the world understand my face (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7607905.stm)
[/url]

Great article. The descriptions of the way people treat her and things that have been said to her made me angry. What a bunch of inconsiderate idiots.

My son has special needs, but his disability is "invisible." It isn't until he opens his mouth that you can tell he is developmentally delayed, i.e. pronounced stutter and juvenile subject matter. He has gone to school and played baseball with kids that have moderate to severe appearance issues - his classmate last year suffere a stroke and is dealing with the resultant paralysis; two of his buddies on the baseball team have cerebral palsy, etc.

The moms tell me that the stares are the worst, but the people that won't make eye contact are almost as bad. I have kept that in mind over the years and remember to look whomever in the eye and smile and say a simple "Hello."

I suppose the homeless feel the same too in some ways... never having anyone look at them in the eye and say hello.

We're all so focused on the wrong things in this life, aren't we? It's what is on the INSIDE that make us who we are!

How can anyone conceive to know what we're like till we're given the time of day...

Jumping in here late.

I don't think anyone should be guilty of having certain preferences in a mate... obviously for a long lasting relationship there needs to be balance... both a physical attraction and a mental connection. My cousin, a rather fit 40 something, is married to and has always been attracted to "bigger girls", as his wife says. Its how he is wired. To each their own.

One of my wife's fav birthday cards had a bare chested, hunk of a man on the front cover and it read "no matter how good he looks"... then on the inside it said "somewhere, someone is TIRED of putting up with his crap"...

So... I like certain physical traits in mates. Doesn't make me a bad guy even if that means it excludes other possible mates who are good mental matches but not physically what pushes the primal buttons. Likewise, I'm very attracted to strong women, and one of the sexiest girls I know isn't hardly a "match" for me physically, but id chase her in a heartbeat if I weren't married.

So there needs to be some balance. Let yourself have your fetishes, connect mentally. Poof. Happiness.

Or something like that.

As for money... we're friends with a couple whose yearly xmas letter reads like a year of national geographic mags... their guest house in malibu is twice the size as our home. So what? We still connect. Likewise, I have a friend who is likely to die penniless. He's a screw up, irresponsible, but a good guy in some ways... if he could only get his head out of his... well, you know.

no... we shouldn't judge just by appearance. And we shouldn't be ashamed to admit we have preferences, fetishes, etc.

Balance in most things goes a long way.

likewise, I'm very attracted to strong women, and one of the sexiest girls I know isn't hardly a "match" for me physically, but id chase her in a heartbeat if I weren't married.

Aw, KP, me too. Wait, were you talking about me? ;)

Or maybe talkin' about meeee?? ;)

No I really think he was talking about me! :p :D LOL!

Oh great, we're going to give the guy a swelled head, three women fighting for him. ;)

But really, I was here first! :D

...

Well, I was going to say "I'd chase you too, KP!", but obviously, you already HAVE too many women chasing you.

So... you can just chase me and I'll let you.

Synnen, I think KP is running from the bulls, or coyotes, or something. Poor guy, he's too smooth for his own good. ;)

I'll fight for him though, put up your dukes girl, bring it on! :)

You ladies own me and you know it.

Smilin' ear to ear.

you ladies own me and you know it.

smilin' ear to ear.

You better believe it baby. :D

Can I put that quote in my sig? ;)

Last year I donated my time as a volunteer to the school that my daughter goes to. My friend and I would car pool, as we both had basically the same hours. The reception I got was very warm and inviting on our first day... not so much for my friend. As we, the volunteer faculty were all standing around the staff's quarters adjusting our schedules for the following month... the ladies were all accommodating and super polite and humorous w/ me. For Cindy they barely made eye contact... gave her the dates to volunteer that suited the group rather than herself. I later found out it was because she does not drive a "nice" car and isn't considered attractive... so therefore unacceptable, in their standards, (lol!) CAN YOU GET OVER THAT?

The way I found out about this was that one of the women in the "group" were working so hard to be my friend... (which usually never happens to me... ), she actually said this to me: "Cindy just isn't our type of people, if you know what I mean"!! I said, "No, I don't really know what you mean". She said, "Well, *with a giggle* we like to look good and be a class above the rest"... I WAS SHOCKED! I just couldn't believe it. I also couldn't believe she said that OUT LOUD, even if her sick mind was thinking it!

I became so quickly accepted and Cindy was totally out of the loop. She's ask me all the time, "Do you get the feeling that these ladies don't like me?" I told her that they all seem to be mentally challenged anyhow so it doesn't matter. Cindy tried so hard to fit in... I couldn't bear to tell her why her attempts fell on deaf ears. It was simply too stupid!

I stopped volunteering for a while... and now I'm back. Sure "the ladies" are still there and ever as eager to have me back... but now I just pay little or no attention to the crazy that lives within the minds of those status seekers.

Can you believe people like that exist? And it's not just in Soap Opera's. Don't you just find that the most odd way to think and live? Well, I do...

See... I'm just not a nice person.

My response to her after her comment about Cindy not being "their type of people", I would have said something along the lines of "Oh! Is THAT what you're trying to be like? I would never have guessed!" and walked away.

I would have smiled at this "lady" and said... Oh I completely understand what you mean. Don't you just have to laugh at those people who are mentally challenged, and their main reason for getting their limited education was so they would be able to add up their mountain of bills at the end of the month, that their husbands spent on their secretaries... because they also want a piece of that action... while their poor wives are out doing such wonderful volunteer work? I pity Cindy. She never has any money left over at the end of the month, because for some reason she likes to donate her time and money to take care of her family and other people, and charities. ;)

It doesn't matter who dies with the most toys... they're still dead!

I don't pity Cindy. She's a very charitable person with a big big heart. She's HIGHLY intelligent. Luckily she's a bit clueless when it comes to innuendo and cattiness. It didn't affect her as much as it could have had I clued her in... which in retrospect was a fab idea that I did not.

These women/"ladies" simply do not have enough going on in their own lives... AND they are very mean spirited..

Oh NO! That is not what I meant at all! I know you don't pity Cindy. That was my sarcasm coming out, trying to get across to the "lady" how pathetic and petty she was being. I guess it would have been in the way I delivered it, and the sarcastic tone of my voice! ;) The "lady" would certainly know I was mocking her!

The way I found out about this was that one of the women in the "group" were working so hard to be my friend...(which usually never happens to me...), she actually said this to me: "Cindy just isn't our type of people, if you know what I mean"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I said, "No, I don't really know what you mean". She said, "Well, *with a giggle* we like to look good and be a class above the rest"...I WAS SHOCKED! I just couldn't believe it. I also couldn't believe she said that OUT LOUD, even if her sick mind was thinking it!.


I find a level stare and the phrase, "Exactly why are you telling me this?" to be most effective in situations such as this.

We belonged to a country club for business/entertaining purposes and during an event the wife of someone who wanted to do business with my husband told me that 20 years ago "those people" (referring to Jews) would not have been allowed to join.

We have a French last name - my husband was Jewish and one of "those people."

I would venture a guess that she'll either never make a comment like that again or will size up her audience more carefully the next time.

Everyone makes mistakes; stupidity is a whole different situation.

Yes, anyone that snubs their noses at anyone because of their stature, ethnicity, skin color, diability, body shape or size, etc. without getting to know the person inside, is missing out on the great person and friend they could have met, that might have enriched their lives and taught them something valuable.

I hope they can have a great conversation and get a lot of love from that bright shiny new Mercedes!. maybe the girl from OnStar will talk to them! LOL!

My response to people like that; Beauty fades, stupid lasts forever. :)

I was laughing actually when I read judykaytee's post. "Exactly why are you telling me this" is OFFICIALLY going into my rolodex of expressions I'm going to draw from for the rest of my life... it's AWESOMEEEE!! And PERFECT...

I wish I could have been at the country club and a fly on the wall... just lapping up the reaction she had to you're response... hahahahlololoolhahahha!! You have b*lls, woman! You have class too...

racism is EXACTLY what it feels like to be discriminated for anything that is externally prejudicial... Even if you are a person who is a little different.. personality wise, as well. Judging people without really giving their uniqueness a chance makes me MAD.

Everyone judges other people. I'm guilty of it, you're guilty of it--face it, everyone is guilty of it.

It's when you're RUDE about your judgements that there is a problem.

Well, I don't judge in a mean spirited way tho'... because I appreciate differences. I've been pressumed to be so many types of people w/out the benefit of them getting to know me, so NO I don't really judge people... at all.

[QUOTE=Comments on this post
SweetDee agrees: Haha, funny! But can't stupid be educated too? Is it a lost cause?? :(QUOTE]


I think ignorant is not educated; stupid is, well... stupid.

Well, you're right again, judykaytee... stupid is stupid, but I hate to believe that... :(

I have been around mentally challenged children and adults since the birth of my son. He turns 18 in December. I have never met a person with special needs that is a snob. Most are friendly and accept any new person into the group. The exception are the kids with emotional disorders.

The insufferable snots I have come across over the years are almost 100% well educated, high-maintenance women. I'm sure there are snotty men, but I haven't met any, yet. I really believe these people are incredibly insecure and snottiness their shield.

Judy's experience is almost the same as the one I had with one of the Wive's groups I encountered with while DH was in the Navy. I found a different organization to join. I don't play well with people like that.

To change this up just a bit. I have gone to social events, and because I was dressed well, good looking, not the least bit snotty by any means, but more on the shy end really, the men (married or not) would always come and approach me. I didn't initiate it, or make the first move. I would talk and probably flirt a little with some, if I knew it was appropriate, and that I wasn't upsetting anyone's wife or girlfriend. I constantly got called a "slut"... or "tramp" just for having conversation. There was no innapropriate touching, and no exchanging of phone numbers, or anything like that, ESPECIALLY if I knew they were involved with someone else.

I know what it feels like to be judged by someone that doesn't know you. I have been cheated on more than once (way more) and I would never do that to another woman. But yet, because they saw me as a threat, I was labeled a "whore" without anyone getting to know that I have my moral standards, and I got judged for just dressing and looking the way I did, and having innocent fun and conversation, with a member of the opposite sex.

Starbuck8, I'm sorry that you got labelled and mistreated (you seem like such a lovely lady.. and I already like you), however you did play into the insecurities of some of the women there. Unless you know the women well, to assume that innocent flirting is OK is... well, presumptuous. Especially in lieu of the fact that you have been cheated on... you know the insecurity that befalls a scorned woman, right? Maybe the men that you casually and innocently flirted w/ were not innocent kinds of men, (especially according to the experiences their spouses/girlfriends might have had). You don't know what goes on behind closed doors.

As innocent as you were... looks are deceiving. We all have had some experiences in our lives where someone is thinking you mean something that you clearly do not. People make mistakes. I'm sure you were just having fun... however the fun was one sided. The women who were on the other side of your fun seem to have been worried and panicked... if they were labelling you something so cruel. Why would you want to create that kind of threat/drama?

I understand looking good and dressing well... and being judged without flirtatious behavior (as an ever threatening guillotine ready to chop off all the hard work one puts into their relationship). I just think it's sabotaging for yourself to, on top of what comes easy for you, (looking good and dressing well... ) making the women in the room resent you. I mean, it doesn't make you across as very nice. Too bad they didn't get to see how awesome you are. (Lol.. that's the best revenge, being hot and super duper nice!)

I have had enough judgement bestowed upon me for just looking as I do... I had to learn the hard way when I was a fledgling... "Do not flirt with other woman's men"... Not only did I learn it I respect it...

I think insecure women need more "stroking" than a hottie like you, no?

I look upon situations like those as a lesson to learn...

You made some good points there SweetDee. I might not have explained what I said as well as I should have once again though. I would only flirt with the single guys, or the men who's wives knew me well, and knew that I was no threat to them.

The problem was, it was the husbands whose wives didn't know me, would see the other guys in the "group" having fun, and they would come over and join the rest. I was very careful not to flirt, and in fact try and avoid these men. Most times I would see the stares from the wives when this happened, and would politely excuse myself from the conversation, because it made me feel uncomfortable. I would even try and go and get to know the wives, and spend time with them, but because their husbands approched me, most often in a group of males and females, they wouldn't have anything to do with me.

I believe since they saw me flirting and laughing with the single men, their husbands wanted in on the "fun", and the wives were angry at their husbands, so they took it out on me, instead of their husbands.

I'll give you just one example. There was one man, that had a girlfriend who I knew was a part of the group that would call me these names. Her boyfriend was in fact a very annoying man, and I couldn't stand him. Every time I would see him anywhere, I would say to whoever I was with... "Oh God, please don't let him come over here." Sure enough, over he'd come. I would just politely say hi, and pretend I was involved in an in-depth conversation, or get up and go to the bathroom, or whatever I could do at the time.

Well, one time he was drunk (as he normally was) and he was standing behind me and tried to grab me. I stood up and said Ray, if you do that again you'll regret it. Go back and sit with your girfriend and leave me the hell alone! Well his girlfriend saw him grab me, but couldn't hear what went on, and she came charging over and threw her drink in my face, and said, "leave my 'husband' alone you slut" in front of a room full of people.

After the initial shock, I tried to explain to her that her 'husband'... as she called him', approached me and I had told him to go away. She made a big scene, and told me that it was me and not him that had started this. Of course the whole crowd saw this, and hadn't seen what had initially happened, so then of course all of the girls were hanging onto their guys, and since I had been there with a girlfriend, she was guilty by association also.

I just left... which I shouldn't have had to do, but to make everyone else happy, I did. So these were her insecurities, and nothing that I did, to provoke him in any way. The guy was a creep! Ewwwww! LOL! But it got to the point where I would no longer go to any of these places where I knew some of these people would be. Some people can be very cruel when they judge someone because of the way they dress or look, and I think that this is a good example of how people's own insecurities cause them to make these judgements.

I believe since they saw me flirting and laughing with the single men, their husbands wanted in on the "fun", and the wives were angry at their husbands, so they took it out on me, instead of their husbands.



Two things I have learned from this thead:

(1) There is clearly something wrong with me - I have never had another woman accuse me of moving in on her man.

(2) My mother will not throw a purity ball for me - she says the time for that has passsed. So forget the get together I was planning for all of us.

Two things I have learned from this thead:

(1) There is clearly something wrong with me - I have never had another woman accuse me of moving in on her man.

(2) My mother will not throw a purity ball for me - she says the time for that has passsed. So forget the get together I was planning for all of us.

Hahahahaha! Judy that made my day! You mean we can't still have our purity ball? Bummer! I had so many plans! :p :D

As for #!-- I think again we are going back to the small town mentallity. Everyone seems to think they know everyone here. I know for a fact, even if I haven't left my home, that I will hear something from someone about someone else. It's ridiculous!

Hahahahaha!! Judy that made my day! You mean we can't still have our purity ball? Bummer!! I had so many plans! :p :D

As for #!-- I think again we are going back to the small town mentallity. Everyone seems to think they know everyone here. I know for a fact, even if I haven't left my home, that I will hear something from someone about someone else. It's ridiculous!


And what am I going to do with all these purity rings?

And what am I going to do with all these purity rings?

Well my jewellery box is full, so maybe we could combine them all and sell them, and start over and buy ourselves diamonds instead! Then we could have a new party! Hmmmm... any idea's what we might call it? ;)

Maybe we could have a girlz party called our BTDT Party! (Been there... done that!) ;) :D

And what am I going to do with all these purity rings?

Goldkit.com

goldkit.com

Oh you just reminded me of something I've been meaning to do! I went to my ex's one night, to get the rest of the small things I had left, and to talk to my stepson. I went into the bathroom, and there was his ring, and all of the other gold jewellery I had given him over the yrs, just sitting out in the open.

He happened to be having a party at the time. I scooped them up and took them with me. I know it was probably wrong, but he had owed me a lot of money, and besides that, he had a house full of shady people that would have probably taken them anyway. I never heard a word from him about them, so he obviously didn't notice or didn't care anyway. I could probably have a damn good party just with the money I would get from the gold from those things! :D

Party? We're having a party?

Judy, I'll throw you a purity ball, purity of thought, purity because you're clean, purity because... I'll think of something. ;)

Bring the purity rings, we can pass them out at my kids school, it goes up to grade 6.

Let's see, the theme of the party, I like Starby's suggestions, "been there, done that" can we add "wrote the book"? ;)

Nice thing about our party, we're old enough to serve alcohol! :)

Judykaytee makes an interesting statement when she says that she's never been accused of stealing another woman's man. I can say the same as an adult... I think all the drama over Starbucks story is something I can relate to but ONLY when I was in high school... (no offence).

I do think that flirting w/ anyone's hubby when they are married or have a "significant other" is just bad carma.

PLUS, Imagine this case scenario: some woman who happened to be drop dead georgeous, (and say you were not so attractive.. ), came to your gatherings and began flirting around... how would that make you feel?

It's comparible to being at a gathering w/ intellectuals and not being able to understand what they were all talking about.

The FEELING of not measuring up breeds insecurity. It's not nice spirited to to actively make anyone feel like the lesser, even if it's unintentional.

You don't know what goes on in the minds of people you don't know...

When I was a teen I had enough experiences that taught me how to treat women of my peers... I struggled too, but I have respect for people. ESPECIALLY women! I AM one of them... and I want to be accepted.

Lessons are life experiences that tell a tale... you just have see it from someone else's point of view.

I am a shameless flirt. It's a big part of who I am.

I flirt with EVERYONE. Young, old, single, married, male, female---doesn't matter. Flirting is FUN, and I do it without even thinking about it.

I am not going to change who *I* am because of someone else's insecurities.

Heck, I wear a size 14. I feel larger than most women a lot of the time, and it makes me feel a little insecure about my looks, but I try very hard not to dislike someone just because they are a size 7 and I am not--I think it's only fair that they should try very hard not to dislike me because I'm great at meeting people and putting them at ease and making them smile--and Little Miss Size 7 can't do it as easily.

Judging someone based on your own insecurities is WORSE than judging someone by how they look, in my opinion. At least most of the time when people judge a person on their looks, they're going by stereotypes, and some of those stereotypes are GOOD. When they're judging based on their own insecurities, the judgement will ALWAYS be bad.

It just doesn't work for me and what I believe in FOR MYSELF and those I care to be friends w/ or surround myself with.

If you're an insatible flirt perhaps it does speak volumes about your insecurities.

Size makes no difference, it's about appropriatness.

I would not appreciate a size 100 flirting w/ my husband... and it's not about my insecurities. Believe me I have no reason to feel insecure physically, mentally or emotionally. I simply don't find that respectful toward other people.

I'm a european background... I wasn't born in North America. I was raised to respect people and not to be so absorbed about what makes ME feel good ONLY.

You live in a world with other people...

Who said that I judge people by their insecurities... isn't that just a good excuse to have a "it doesn't matter" kind of attitude? I feel that I'd like to respect people and their relationships... why do I need to flirt w/ their men? How insecure is THAT?

Perhaps if we CARED more about our neighbors and strangers and treated people w/ respect there would be less anger and war...

It just doesn't work for me and what I believe in FOR MYSELF and those I care to be friends w/ or surround myself with.

If you're an insatible flirt perhaps it does speak volumes about your insecurities.

Size makes no difference, it's about appropriatness.

I would not appreciate a size 100 flirting w/ my husband...and it's not about my insecurities. Believe me I have no reason to feel insecure physically, mentally or emotionally. I simply don't find that respectful toward other people.

I'm a european background...I wasn't born in North America. I was raised to respect people and not to be so absorbed about what makes ME feel good ONLY.

You live in a world with other people...

Who said that I judge people by their insecurities...isn't that just a good excuse to go ahead and have a "it doesn't matter" kind of attitude? I feel that I'd like to respect people and their relationships...why do I need to flirt w/ their men? How insecure is THAT?

Perhaps if we CARED more about our neighbors and strangers and treated people w/ respect there would be less anger and war...


I think it depends on what you mean by flirting - I had an attractive husband. It didn't bother me if other women noticed. If someone had put her hands on him, he would have taken care of the situation long before I got there.

I find, as a widow, that people don't know what to say to me because I am their worse nightmare. If it happened to me, it could happen to them. That's an insecurity on their part. It has very little to do with the fact that I am suddenly "single," which I don't feel that I am. I'm sure at some point that changes but right now I still feel very married so I'm not making moves on anyone's man.

And it's not about whether people have a REASON to feel " insecure physically, mentally or emotionally." It's if they DO feel insecure...

I have drop dead gorgeous friends who are full of insecurities about their looks; I have average looking friends who are very secure within themselves. I have friends who yammer on about their looks and possessions; I have friends who are very well off and attractive who never say a word. One of my friends never refers to her husband - which she does frequently - without saying, "My husband, Brian, the Doctor ..." as if she has two husbands and wants us to know which one she's talking about!

She is obviously insecure in her relationship with him but otherwise I enjoy her company.

... this is me sort of trailing off.

Didn't you read it entirely?

I flirt with EVERYONE. Male, female, androgynous, I don't care. I don't care if you're old enough to be my grampa, or young enough to be my daughter.

Telling me not to do so would be like telling YOU not to smile at a certain group of people because it might make someone else feel badly. Flirting is a HUGE portion of my personality.

I have a feeling you and I are defining "flirting" differently. To me, it's harmless banter with ANYONE, male or female, that sometimes borders on innuendo, but is ALWAYS about making the other person feel attractive. It's not about making "moves", it's not about touching, it's not about being insecure, it's not about feeding anyone else's insecurities. It's about wit and banter and fun and well, flirting. Unless someone is hurting and needs a hug, I am not a very TOUCHY person--I don't like people invading MY space, so I don't invade theirs--but I DO like someone that can walk the edge of being naughty without actually crossing it with me.

I'm very happily married to a guy who is probably the best man on earth. There's no way I'd do anything to jeopardize that relationship, but I warned him early on that I was a flirt. He gets it, and we get on very well together. He also makes me feel very confident about myself--usually the only time I feel bad about being a size 14 instead of a size 2 is when I go shopping with some of my thinner friends that can fit in anything on the rack and look good in it. Having to be VERY selective about your clothes when others don't have to tends to make most larger women feel self-conscious. But--my husband thinks I'm the sexiest woman on earth, and apparently other people think I'm sexy too, or at least think I'm witty, because I never lack for someone to flirt with.

Funny thing, though--you say you don't judge ANYONE, Sweetdee, but yet you judge flirts as people who are disrespectful of someone else's relationship. Most flirts actually have the UTMOST respect for a relationship, and when asked nicely to back off, usually do.

But--I'm not changing my outgoing personality because some people aren't sure they can hang on to their mate. That's THEIR problem, not mine. I'm not TRYING to take their mate, I don't WANT their mate. I have my own, thanks, and no one else could measure up to him.

Synnen, had to spread the rep, but I agree 100%.

I too am a flirt, but I only flirt with people I know, people who know that I'm not seriously trying anything. I love to flirt, but it's not to get someone else's man.

I have had a few "friends" who didn't like me flirting, so I didn't. If they are insecure about their relationship then I'm not going to feed into that insecurity.

People flirt with me all the time, strangers, people I know, men, women, you name it. I'm a confident person, and that aspect of my personality is very apparent. When I walk into a room, I am "there" and everyone knows it. I'm not gorgeous, I'm not ugly, I'm average. But, because I'm confident, people are drawn to me.

SweetDee, I think that you have a different idea of flirting then we do. I'm not talking about touching, kissing, grabbing, or any of that. It's innocent innuendo and flirtful fun, that's it.

And fyi, I am German, born, raised, and still a citizen. I live in Canada. Being of European decent has nothing to do with flirting.

My husband is obese-
He told me the first time he saw me
That he thought he could never date a girl
Like me. He thinks I'm hot but I love him
He is so funny and sweet and we have a lot in common, music, movies, art, we like the same kind of people. His friends and my friends are best friends now. We are just compatible. But I understand that a lot of people don't filter out the 'mask' that someone wears. I like to think that I'm someone who sees inner beauty, almost like shallow hal (the movie). I know the majority is like that, but there are people who don't- and those are the people who are friends worth having. He knows I am a flirt too-but he knows it's all about the fun- I get almost giddy sometimes, both of us are mature enough to realize that we can find someone attractive and flirt with people without hurting anybody. And like Synnen, it's just part of my personality. People who know me know that I'm flirtatious. They don't mind if I flirt with them or their spouses-sig. other. I flirt with my best friend and I have known her for years!

I have to say that I agree with Synnen 100% also. It's all about how you define flirting. As long as it's not mean spirited, and done with the intentions of making someone, male or female, feel good about themselves, well I don't see the problem.

If you see that it's hurting someone, then that is the time to take a step back and respect that other person. Innocent flirting makes both the giver and the receiver feel good.

It's only when it's done in spite, or in a careless way, that it can become a problem. I've been out to dinner with my (now ex) husband, and the waitress had shamelessly flirted while I was sitting right there. That is unacceptable to me. She found out in short form just how unacceptable it was... trust me she did.

With that said, it is once again, how you are defining flirting. Also, if your man (woman) doesn't have the b*lls to say something to someone who is "breaking the rules", as 'should' have been already established in your relationship, then a long conversation about your relationship is in order.

My hubby knows I'm a flirt, and he laughs at it all the time. Half the time I don't even realize that I'm flirting, sad. ;)

I agree Starby, and I can honestly say that my flirting is all innocent, not spiteful and not mean spirited. I flirt because it feels good, and to make someone else feel good. I also never flirt with someone who I know will take it the wrong way.

I won't flirt with someone that I know is interested in me, I don't want to lead anyone on, because I'm quite happy with my marriage.

It's all done in good taste, and if someone has a problem with it then I stop, or explain.

I find that the people who are upset by my flirting are usually the ones that are very insecure about their relationship.

Of course there is the overt, I want you, How you doing flirting, the uninnocent, spiteful flirting, and that is not okay, no matter what.

Judykaytee, I do agree w/ a lot of what you said. Sometimes the one that might be accused of flirting doesn't even know they are doing it, (whether they be male or female). Also, I was referring SPECIFICALLY about myself when I made the statement that I do not have any insecurites, "physically mentally or emotionally". I'm a very confident female, which contributes to the insecurity I could spread sometimes. It's not MY issue if someone is threatened by my confidence... but then I won't begin flirting w/ anyone's partner, daughter, husband, grandfather... (lol Synnen!! ).

Let me clear something up real quick... I don't not flirt because it would make someone feel bad... I choose not to do it as I believe it would show DISRESPECT... (that's a little different). I just believe in my heart and head that EVERYONE deserves respect. Unless you are one of those people who murder, rape, molest... etc, I treat ALL PEOPLE w/ RESPECT. It should not be so hard to understand what I mean...

(Synnen, I think we both define flirtation the same way. You sound like a very "friendly" gal and if you just removed the whole innuendo part of it and the need to make people feel attractive you'd be just as interesting and as much fun).

As I said before, I choose to treat people w/ RESPECT. It's a personal choice. I don't judge those that are flirtatious... I thought I could just talk about MY personal choice here... I didn't know that if I reveal my opinion I would then be JUDGED as a JUDGER... lol! I'm just sharing... and I just disagree... I still like you all even if we disagree.

Everyone's different. We all have to learn to see that w/out judgment. Flirting is something I choose to save for my husband, (and before him it was saved for someone I was interested in. I don't need to flirt to get attention or confirm my hottness... that's just not what it does for me PERSONALLY). I don't like to make other people see me as a flirt... I would much rather be thought of as "there goes that funny lady" or "she's so savvy" or "she's just a nice person", (as challenged as THAT may sound... ).

Flirting FOR MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE is not my cup of tea...

Altenweg, being of a european descent DOES play a big role in how I feel about who I am... FOR ME. Can I not speak for myself? My point of view is personal.. it's not GLOBAL...

One of my best friends is a huge flirt... and we're still "best friends". She flirts w/ my husband all the time, (she creates drama everwhere she goes! It's a blast to watch actually)... I don't flirt w/ hers. It's just THAT simple! No deeper...

I may be a minority here, but I am a voice...

Oh, and YES I agree w/ when Altenweg says, "People who are upset w/ my flirting are usually the one's who are very insecure about their relationship", (I would have given you a rep. but it wouldn't let me... ).

I don't get "upset", I just don't like the drama in it when I'M involved doing it... I hope everyone gets that...

I may be a minority here, but I am a voice...


I think you missed my point - first, you certainly have a voice here. I hope you don't think people are ganging up on you. Everyone is coming from a different place.

I was addressessing your statement ("Believe me I have no reason to feel insecure physically, mentally or emotionally") in a general way.

I feel that: " ... it's not about whether people have a REASON to feel 'insecure physically, mentally or emotionally.' It's if they DO feel insecure ..."

I have very attractive, insecure friends; I have average looking secure friends. One of my best friends went to Mexico for plastic surgery and died on the table for absolutely no reason other than her own insecurities.

That's all -

Why are we all so obsessed w/ the way OTHER people look? If she's obese, can you be friends w/ her anyway and just get to know her FOR HER? If she's a stone fox can you go beyond her surface and get to know HER for her? Why is so difficult to be friends w/ people who are a little different?

Do all over weight people have to be ONLY friends w/ one another? Do all hotties have to? Can they not intermingle?

I'm suggesting that a hottie be best friends w/ a big girl, (:eek:). I am also suggesting that people imagine that beyond the surface there lives a personality that has feelings and emotions, opinions, intelligence, plus plus...

Why do we judge people by their exterior? I know it's insecurity... but why can't we all take the opportunity to get to know one another with out the fear and insecurity.

For that matter, while we're at it: Can the working class have friends who are wealthy and living in manshions, driving Bentley's? And visa verse?

I'm curious how you all might answer...
OK - last night I went out to dinner with my cousin (who is quite attractive) and we got into the flirting conversation. I said I never flirted and she fell over laughing, said - her words - my husband "never had a chance." She said she used to watch us together and found me "amusing, but in a nice way."

So apparently my "never flirted" comments were incorrect and I buzzed around my own husband!

Sweet Dee, you certainly have a right to your own opinion, that's what this site is all about, different people, different opinions. That's also what makes this site work. :)

I understand you position, I just don't agree. It is hard to convey exactly what I mean by writing it down, so much is lost when writing, tone of voice, facial expression etc.

So, let's agree to disagree. :)

Thank you.

I think that judykaytee makes good points, as usual...

I also agree (Altenweg) that so much gets lost in translation...

I also think I may be coming across as a little staunch.

I really am not as uptight as this thread reads...

Thank you girls for not disliking me just because I'm opinionated and mouthy, sometimes.

I never gave so much thought about flirting in my life till I began blabbering on and then reading responses, (who even KNEW that I HAD so much to say about it)... I love my flirty friends... they probably have more personality than I do!

I really do believe in "live and let live"... so I'm shutting up now.

I believe in the whole, "judge not lest you be judged" thingy. ;)

I'm mouthy and opinionated too (no comments everyone, I know you're dying to ;)). I think it's the German in me. ;)

Anyway, no worries, we all have a right to our opinion, and we all have the right to voice that opinion. Once again, that's what I love about AMHD, many different people, different backgrounds, different experiences and opinions. It's what makes AMHD work, and I wouldn't change a thing. :)

I believe in the whole, "judge not lest you be judged" thingy. ;)

I'm mouthy and opinionated too (no comments everyone, I know you're dying to ;)). I think it's the German in me. ;)

Anyway, no worries, we all have a right to our opinion, and we all have the right to voice that opinion. Once again, that's what I love about AMHD, many different people, different backgrounds, different experiences and opinions. It's what makes AMHD work, and I wouldn't change a thing. :)



Alty - I thought of you last night. Was watching the Emmies (which were boring beyond belief or at least I thought so and about 8 hours long or so it seemed) when out came Heidi Klum - German accent and all and I thought of you.

That's it. Nothing terribly exciting.

Judy, if only I had Heidi's body. ;)

I actually don't have an accent, lost that years ago. I came to Canada when I was almost 4 years old. My parents used to tape me all the time, in the beginning it was all German, then english with a German accent and then just english.

Funny thing is, I'm told that I don't have a Canadian accent. I didn't realize that Canadians really had an accent. ;)

Judy, if only I had Heidi's body. ;)

I actually don't have an accent, lost that years ago. I came to Canada when I was almost 4 years old. My parents used to tape me all the time, in the beginning it was all German, then english with a German accent and then just english.

Funny thing is, I'm told that I don't have a Canadian accent. I didn't realize that Canadians really had an accent. ;)

I don't think we have an accent either. But if you're from certain parts of Eastern Canada, then yes. Especially Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, or New Brunswick, and well of course the French speaking people from Quebec, or Ontario.

True Starby.

We should make up an accent. The Albertan accent. We need to distinguish ourselves from other Canadians. :)

I do have to say, my friend Brent who now lives in California, was surprised that everyone could tell that he was Canadian because of the way he talks. Instead of saying Grade 1, the Americans apparently say, first grade. That alone clued everyone in. Funny, the small things we notice.

Some people think it's funny the way we say "towel" too! I've heard that many times. Also that we say "snuck"... as in"I snuck up on him" Oh, and the way we say Mom. There are lots of words that Americans think sound funny the way we say them, but I dumbfounded. I can't tell the difference!

Ya, you betcha, doncha know.

The best word to hear from Canadians is "Aboot".

True story.

Aboot? Isn't that footwear? ;)

Aboot? Isn't that footwear? ;)



Eh? So you're going on holiday?

I'm going on a holiday to the boonies eh? Yep that's where I's be! I's going to bee gun fer aboot a weak er so eh! Can sum one come an watch over my's polar bears while's I's gon? LRH... oh that there means laugh reel hard!

I would laugh just as hard as you guys if I heard a Canadian say 'Aboot" I wear a size 8 and a half thanks! :D

Some Virginians say "aboot", too.

As far as I know, in Canada, the only ones that say 'aboot' are in Newfoundland, on the eastern coast. I'm way on the other end of Canada. One province away from the western coast. Alty too! :)

Emland, maybe they are immigrants from Newfoundland... LOL!

Also, a lot of people think we all speak French here! Hmmmm! I think I might be able to count to ten... haha! OH OH I can say voilà, caviar and escargot! :p

... and the line from Sister Marmalade! ;)

That line has gotten me into a lot of trouble in the past Starby. ;)

Yup, the aboot is mainly in Newfoundland, I've never heard anyone utter that word here. Starby and I are in Alberta, I live close to Edmonton, you know, the home of the Oilers, the City of Champions, which isn't very accurate anymore, we haven't won anything in a while. ;) Maybe it's the City of Mushrooms now. ;)

I took one year of french, I can ask what time it is, but if you answer me, I won't know what the heck you said. I know lots of dirty words though. Surprised? ;)

Unfortunately I HAD to learn French and become as bilingual as possible in order to survive here in Quebec... wish the government would expect the same from the French people here. Most Quebecoise cannot speak ENGLISH!! And Quebec is IN Canada...

I may sound a little bitter, I apologize. It's a very lovely and cultured place to live. Feels a lot like little Europe here. It's just that we have too much politics here... The English really are tired of the French for all the language police that goes on.

What state/province (government) ACTUALLY puts money into a "language police"? They are FUNDED! Their job is to make sure that there are no signs found in English... So, if you have a business and you want to call it "Sam's coffee shop", the language police will fine you and then ask you to remove the English words and make them French. You are allowed to have the English underneath the French PROVIDING the words are very small, so the French is prevailent. That goes for menu's and anything and everything that is written for the public...

I would LOVE to leave here, but my husband's career is here. So, is mine, but I can be a "dog trainer" ANYWHERE...

The English stream school system is what needs to be funded here. They have these beautiful new French schools going up all the time... and they fully equip those schools. The English schools look like ghetto's! They're falling apart inside and they have no materials...

If you move to this province you are not allowed to put your child into an English school unless you can prove that you went to an English one here in Quebec, as a young child. If you're from the states or other parts of Canada and you don't know French you still HAVE to put your kids in the French stream. You have to have physical proof of having been educated in the province of Quebec in ENGLISH as a child in order to have permission to educate your kids in English... lol.

The French want you all to learn their language. I love their language, it's just that I don't like it SHOVED down my throat!

... Just some info about the government here and the people... fun ay?

SweetDee, is English offered as a second language or is it completely left out?

Amazingly... those of using the US feel that if you emigrate here, you should know how to speak ENGLISH, and most of us are sick of funding schools that teach solely in SPANISH. If you come here from Mexico, we want you to learn ENGLISH. I want English shoved down peoples' throats.

So... have to admit I side with the Quebeqoise here.

Amazingly....those of usin the US feel that if you emigrate here, you should know how to speak ENGLISH, and most of us are sick of funding schools that teach solely in SPANISH. If you come here from Mexico, we want you to learn ENGLISH. I want English shoved down peoples' throats.

So...have to admit I side with the Quebeqoise here.


This is becoming a hot issue in NYS because of the large Puerto Rican population. One of my process servers is Puerto Rican and I very often have to call him and he translates over a cell phone when I'm investigating, usually an accident.

Amazing to me!

Wow. Here in Alberta we can choose.

For instance, my kids are in the German biligual school, they offer both German and English programs. Because my son was in speech therapy I opted to put him in the English class, as a result he is learning French this year, but it's still up to us if we want that as his second language.

My daughter is in the German class, and she will continue until grade 6, after that she can take German by correspondence or go to a German school after her regular classes.

English is still the primary language taught, even in the bilingual class. We also have french immersion as an option.

Synnen, what irks me is that people who don't have a good grasp of the english language usually get jobs in telecommunications. Really? Now I have to speak 10 languages in order to understand someone who is calling me in order to sell something? I don't think so. :(

Amazingly....those of usin the US feel that if you emigrate here, you should know how to speak ENGLISH, and most of us are sick of funding schools that teach solely in SPANISH. If you come here from Mexico, we want you to learn ENGLISH. I want English shoved down peoples' throats.

So...have to admit I side with the Quebeqoise here.

But Synnen, you need to understand that Quebec is ONE province in Canada. Every single other province in Canada speaks English. (except for the immigrants also) There has been a war of separatism going on for years. They wanted to be in Canada, but they want to separate from it. It's like they want to build a wall around the province, and have their own country, inside a country.

It would be like if all of the Mexicans moved to Montana, and the mexican politicians decided that Montana was now a Spanish State, and everything had to be in Spanish, and the people that already lived there were forced to conform, and learn Spanish. I'm sure the other States would be in an uproar over something like that.

If they want to be in our Country, they should speak the language that the rest of us speak, and it should not be forced upon the rest of us, because 1 province and it's politicians, have decided they would like to speak French. We are under British rule here, and of course the official language of Britain is English.

Starby, had to spread the rep but of course I agree. :)

Even here in Alberta, were english is the main language, we still have to have french on all our products. Of cours english is prominent, but the french is there.

Alty, take a guess where my CANADIAN phone company is located! Go ahead... guess! Can we all spell PAKISTAN? Try getting service when you call THEM! It's an all day job!

Eeek! Good luck Starby. :)

Starby, had to spread the rep but of course I agree. :)

Even here in Alberta, were english is the main language, we still have to have french on all our products. Of cours english is prominent, but the french is there.

Exactly!. and because of ONE province! But where are most of Canada's Politicians? ;)

It's sad, isn't it? But really, we're still very lucky. All in all, we live in a pretty wonderful country, it could be worse, a lot worse.

Everyone can find something they don't like about where they live, but for us, french on our products isn't really that bad. Except when the bottle is turned the wrong way and you accidentally wash your hair with conditioner instead of shampoo, been there, done that. ;)

It's sad, isn't it? But really, we're still very lucky. All in all, we live in a pretty wonderful country, it could be worse, alot worse.

Everyone can find something they don't like about where they live, but for us, french on our products isn't really that bad. Except when the bottle is turned the wrong way and you accidentally wash your hair with conditioner instead of shampoo, been there, done that. ;)

Did that yesterday... yep conditioner before shampoo... LOL!

That's not the worst thing I've done Starby. I once used mousse instead of shaving cream to shave my legs. I also used hair spray instead of deodorant once. Wiggy used Nair instead of shampoo (my fault, shouldn't have left it in the tub). ;)

Yup, it's sad, I really have to learn to read before I use something. :)

I once knew someone who used Preparation H, instead of toothpaste! DUH! Gives a whole new meaning to "it feels like someone sh*t in my mouth" LOL!

I once knew someone who used Preperation H, instead of toothpaste! DUH! Gives a whole new meaning to "it feels like someone sh*t in my mouth" LOL!!



Oh, too funny - my ex-husband (one of the many reasons he's my ex-husband) once used Brylcream, thinking it was toothpaste. (A) Who owns Brylcream? (B) Who confuses it with toothpaste?

This same man - who shall remain anonymous because I have no wish to be sued - once got up during the night, I heard him rummaging around in the refrigerator, he came back to bed some time later. In the AM he said he LOVED the soup but didn't bother making noodles so he just heated and drank it.

I hadn't made soup. It was pork gravy from the pork roast the night before.

BLECH!~

Mmmmmm, gravy. :)

Hee, hee, I've done all sorts of weird things, used all sorts of products that weren't for that specific use. I'm lucky to be alive! ;)

Mmmmmm, gravy. :)

Hee, hee, I've done all sorts of wierd things, used all sorts of products that weren't for that specific use. I'm lucky to be alive! ;)


Do you think that says something bad about my cooking if my own family can't tell my soup and gravy apart?

I think it means that you make really yummy gravy, maybe a bit watered down, but yummy! :)

You know what Sweetdee, this past weekend I went to my friend baby shower. She is from the upper class but is the most friendly, kind person you can ever meet. She never throws in nobody face about how much money she has, and she got plenty. Her other friends are different. When we got there we got all sorts of looks and I basically wanted to leave but I didn't. Fast forward me and my friend went half on a gift and brought her a stroller that cost $800 but got it for $550 on eBay because that's what she wanted, I was a little leary about spending that much money on a stroller but we felt she deserved it.When we presented our gift her friends gave us dirty looks because we split a gift. I continue with the night ignoring them and later my friend apolgize for her friend behavior.

I know you can't win them all but when I was there I felt out of place and I never felt that way. I am glad my friend isn't like that.

You know what Sweetdee, this past weekend I went to my friend baby shower. She is from the upper class but is the most friendly, kind person you can ever meet. She never throws in nobody face about how much money she has, and she got plenty. Her other friends are different. When we got there we got all sorts of looks and I basically wanted to leave but I didn't. Fast forward me and my friend went half on a gift and brought her a stroller that cost $800 but got it for $550 on ebay because that's what she wanted, I was a little leary about spending that much money on a stroller but we felt she deserved it.When we presented our gift her friends gave us dirty looks because we split a gift. I continue with the night ignoring them and later my friend apolgize for her friend behavior.

I know you can't win them all but when I was there I felt out of place and I never felt that way. I am glad my friend isn't like that.


After your rant about avoiding me, I find it, well, odd, that you show up here.

Liz, too many people focus on monetary things, outward appearances, clothes, pedigree, it's sad.

You are lucky to have such a good friend, too bad her other friends aren't as good as her.

After your rant about avoiding me, I find it, well, odd, that you show up here.

I was unaware of that.

Perhaps you're being stalked Judy. :eek:

Here we go again with Judy. If you read through the pages you would see I been answer this post. It has nothing to do with you. Can you stop bothering me and move on to someone else. I posted some before and now. Stop holding gruging from other threads and move on, enough is enough.

After your rant about avoiding me, I find it, well, odd, that you show up here.

What does this have to do with the original post?

Hey you guys,

English is NOT offered as a second language. They have "language police" here to confirm that no english be applied ESPECIALLY in the workplace.

When you go for a job application, they never ask you if you speak English. English is a language they prefer to abolish. If you speak a little English it's fine, but not necessary... IN AN ENGLISH COUNTRYYYY!! IN CANADA... (can you imagine?? ).

Starbuck, you really get it sweety. It's so nice to hear that SOMEONE out in English Canada knows some of the politics, I do not expect any Americans to have an info really.

I suppose it would take an American and their American experiences w/ Mexicans to THINK there is some kind of possible commonality. Do you have language police saying that you must ONLY speak in Spanish? Do you have a whole government that was created WITHIN YOUR AMERICAN STATE, (a Mexican one, no less.. ), making sure the English have no schools or funding and catering only to the all mighty Mexicans? Can you imagine not being able to make a living because you cannot speak Spanish? How would you pay your bills if you are not bilingual?

The Quebecers want to Separate from Canada... like starby says, we're under the British rule... The French want to be a country within a country. Who does that? How do they expect the rest of English Canada to continue to like and respect them... because they do not! (Consequences!! ).

I speak French all day... you'd think I was a French person. I LOVE love love speaking it... I love languages in general. It would be great tho' if it were not demanded of me as A LAW.

You cannot imagine how it feels for people who live in an English country, (and moved here KNOWING it was English.. ) to be forced to have to speak French. Of all languages... I mean, the French are KNOWN for being rude even in Europe!

Then there is the other side of things... The grateful appreciation of the working class, (not all, but sometimes this happens.. ) when they see an Anglo trying to conform... and showing effort. They appreciate it, but by then it falls on deaf ears as the government is too hard and fast at work keeping the French and English from bonding in any way.

The government always rears it's "Seperatist" head and rallies the people into confirming their hatred. The English for feeling raped... the French for feeling hated in their own province. Their logo is, "If you don't like it...LEAVE!"

I wish I could. My husband works for an international company. He speaks in English all day only, thank goodness the man is not able to learn French, no matter how's he's tried. This company is owned by the Germans... Anyhow, until he retires he and I are here to stay... I wish the company would move to Ottawa at least! It's not THAT far from Montreal, only 2 hours or so... (Ottawa is the capital of Canada). I know they boast bilingualism, but they don't FORCE you to speak French there, it's just an asset...

Why are the French so mean?:confused::mad::eek::(

No, it's not that they FORCE Spanish on anyone here.

I have, however, lived in a southern state (Texas). Try to find a low skills/no degree job down there without being bilingual. It's next to impossible.

We're an English speaking country that is, for the most part, trying to STOP what happened in Quebec from happening here. There are schools in CA where you MUST speak Spanish all day. There are a lot of companies all across the southwest that will hire you if you only speak Spanish, but will NOT hire you if you only speak English.

So maybe you're right, and it's NOT the same thing. But I kind of see it as the same thing, only we still have a chance to STOP it here.

No, it's not that they FORCE Spanish on anyone here.

I have, however, lived in a southern state (Texas). Try to find a low skills/no degree job down there without being bilingual. It's next to impossible.

We're an English speaking country that is, for the most part, trying to STOP what happened in Quebec from happening here. There are schools in CA where you MUST speak Spanish all day. There are a lot of companies all across the southwest that will hire you if you only speak Spanish, but will NOT hire you if you only speak English.

So maybe you're right, and it's NOT the same thing. But I kind of see it as the same thing, only we still have a chance to STOP it here.



I had to smile - my husband was a Doctor of Pharmacy, owned his own stores, previously was District Manager of "big box" Pharmacy. He decided - when he first got sick - that Texas would be a good climate and we were considering moving. Flew down, aced the interview, all was going very well. Second interview they asked him if he spoke Spanish, and he did not.

He was told he needed to be bilingual and so that was the end of that. The interviewer said they didn't put that in the head hunters info because it would sound like discrimination.

(And the person they hired WAS bilingual so it wasn't an excuse.)

Well in Quebec Judy, not only can you not get a job if you don't speak French, if you are an English speaking/reading citizen, you can't even do simple things like drive, if you can't read the road signs, or call 911 in an emergency, to get assistance.

Not to mention, that since Quebec and Ontario are neighbouring provinces, and the capital building is in Ontario, the political powers that be are most often from Quebec or Ontario. That is who hires the "language police", and who makes these discriminatory laws.

Starby, call me, miss you. Hi everyone! :)

If, God forbid, you get pulled over by a cop for speeding... he'll deal w/ you in French because they're all French. He won't switch to English... they hate the Anglo's. He'll keep talking his talk in French, be cold as hell and give you the biggest ticket he legally can.

Luckily I can switch to French, but I have friends that cannot. For a speeding ticket a good girl friend of mine got upwards of $420.00 whereas my husband and I got pulled over once and we got $140.00, big difference no? (Of course I did all the talking... lol).

The 911 operator is not always bilingual. All your documents for a house sale, bills ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING is in French... you sometimes do not know what you are signing.

Imagine??

It's almost surreal...

I don't have any friends who are French because I really don't respect their cultures politics so it's hard to have anything in common.

All's I know is that I speak it for THEIR convenience... out of respect.

Maybe one day I'll get what I give...

Good luck! I hope an English speaking person comes to your rescue, after you've turned purple from holding your breath that long... LOL!

I can't believe the second largest country in the whole world, has ONE province that tries to take over and rule the rest. I can only speak about the "French Canadians" that I know, but they are very arrogant people, and think they own this entire country.

Ou si je le parler dans le français! LOL!

So, I'm guessing the people in Quebec hate Americans because most of us can't manage English correctly, much less two languages!

We get a lot of Canadian tourists here in Virginia Beach (all the ones I have met are English speaking) and they are so much fun. They love our warm Indian Summers.

Well my parents live in Florida, and my sis in N. Carolina. They do say that a lot of the American's judge all Canadians, because of the ones from Quebec and Ontario, because they are rude.

I always make it a point when down in the States, to tell people I am from WESTERN Canada. If I mention that I'm close to Calgary, Banff, and Vancouver, they are fine with me.

I don't have a problem with Canadians. As a general rule, I judge people by WHO they are, not WHAT they are.

But... if the rest of Canada has such an issue with the whole Quebec thing, then why didn't you let them become their own country when they wanted to a few years back? Maybe I'm just not remembering the situation right, though.

It was, and is, a political thing. They didn't want to give up the other benefits they get for being "Canadian" I guess the only way to explain it simply, is they wanted to have their cake and eat it too! They didn't want to be part of our Country, but they still didn't want to give up the perks.

I can't speak for all of us, but most people I've talked to would be just fine with them being their own little country inside a country. But then they would have to make it on their own as a province, and wouldn't get the same funding and such, as other provinces, so they didn't want that of course, but they still want the power to shove their rules and beliefs down our throats.

I don't judge as a whole either. I like to get to know the person for who they are, and make up my own mind on the individual themselves.

Starbuck I guess holding my breath is kind of stupid and I guess I never have really thought that I'd ever get the same in return... it's just that it would be nice.. Whatever. (Oh and NO please don't speak French! I love your English <3 ).

Emland, for some reason the French do hate the American's they call them "stupid" and "des classay", (I don't know how to get my keyboard to add the accents and make it French, so I spelled it phonetically), but they are such hypocrites! I mean, if they hate the Americans so much why do I see them standing in line for the next box office hit or renting all the American movies? Not to mention adopting all the styles... like the hip hop, gansta, scene, emo, etc... styles and these DID come from the U.S. and not from Milan or Paris...

They are "wanna-be's" just like the rest of us. (Meaning that we all seem to have adopted a similar style) It just odd that they are behaving like "haters" at the same time.. That's just plain CONFUSED. I don't wear a specific "fashion" or "style" and then talk trash about the people who created it. How weird is that? (Do you guys understand what I mean? I'm not sure I'm expressing myself properly.. ).

There are soooooooooo many French people in Florida... and so many of them not only cannot speak English, but they REFUSE. They segregate themselves into large communities, much like the Hong Kong-onians in Vancouver or the Chinese in Toronto. If you walk into certain convenience stores in Toronto in neighborhoods entrenched w/ Asians sometimes you come across owners who only speak in Chinese. (But at least they are not a people who are trying to Separate FROM THE REST OF THE COUNTRY and shove their politics down our throats!! ) Imagine the French vacationing in Fla. And having the audasity to refuse to speak English EVEN in the U.S.of A!! This is the type of people we are talking about... I'm embarrassed for them!

Synnen, I don't judge people by what they are either... If you are disrespectful, arrogant, rude, hateful, ill-mannered, judgemental, etc... then I simply become aware of it AND FAST, then I steer CLEAR!!

The problem with the Quebecoise is that they come from a long line of under educated. They breed kids and raise them to be haters. These kids have kids and then it multiplies... Instead of teaching their people to become a PART of Canada they teach them to become "Seperatists", (people who want to separate and become a nation in and of their own... ). As Starbuck says, they want their cake and eat it too, but the truth is that their province cannot support their theory of hate and separation. They cannot afford to break free and become a country of their own. Believe ME the rest of Canada has just as much told them, "Do it then", but clearly they haven't, have they? BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY CANNOT... so they walk around like angry losers of a war THEY CREATED!!

They continue to try and dominate the country. Their political leadership, (the NDP) keeps them angry and forever fighting... keeping them the people Canada loves to hate.

It's politics babyyyyyy... lol.

SweetDee, I had to spread the rep. but very well put! By the way, I cheated and used my online translator to write that in French. Otherwise, I wouldn't have had a clue how to say what I said, and believe me, I have no intention of learning to speak French! ;) Proper English gives me trouble sometimes! LOL!

Well, misery loves company. I'm glad the US isn't the only nation that has "issues."

Emland, misery sure DOES enjoy it's company... lol. The rest of Canada doesn't really live the reality of disrespect that the Anglo's out here live... LUCKY FOR THEM! And quite frankly I'm glad it's only us. I would hate for the Seperatists to be able to spread their hate any further than it's already been spread. Let it "rest" here... eventually we'll move as retirement come closer and closer.

If Canada could just grow a b*ll or two they could resolve the issue in the future by obliterating the NDP... and putting them in their place for once and for all! Lol...

(Starbuck I just learned what you mean about spreading some rep around, yesterday. I tried to give some to you as well but was told that I could not till I spead some around... let's see if I can now... xoxo). Even tho' I am bilingual I'm still not able to have very good "written" grammar in French, so I too have to get help from an online translator. It's BY FAR easier to speak French than it is to write it...

Nope, I am not able to spread any rep to either Starbuck or Emland right now... :( I wonder WHEN I can..

My sister is a middle school teacher and although she is qualified to teach French, her class is a "cultural appreciation class" that focuses on the influences the French and Hispanic cultures have had around the world. Her first week this year she served crêpes and usually ends the school year with a Fiesta. It's a weird combination of language, art appreciation and history with her culinary skills tossed in to keep their attention.

She has signed up for a week long immersion class in French and I think it is going to be held in Quebec. I'll double check and give her a heads up on what she might find.

Nope, I am not able to spread any rep to either Starbuck or Emland right now...:( I wonder WHEN I can...?

You have to give a few more greenies to someone else before you can give them to us again. Go off and find someone, somewhere, that you agree with, and then high tail it back here! LOL! ;)

Yes Emland, give your sis a heads up! People that don't know, unfortunately tend to judge all Canadians on the rudeness and arrogance of 'some' people in Quebec and Ontario. We're not all like that, and I hate it that someone who comes to Canada for a vacation, and happen to go to Quebec or Ontario, and have a bad experience, thinks that is what all Canadians are like. Most of us are the most easy going, fun loving people that you would ever meet! :)

Actually, the way this thread has kind of meanandered away from its original subject, it should probably be moved to member discussions where you can't GIVE reputation.

Well, it's "meanandering" back, because I have a response to the last person who's kept on subject.. (Emland), lol...

Em, just for you to know... the French don't always treat people whom are guests to this province w/ little or no respect, however I'm not saying that it's not often the case. It's a strange situation to explain really. It's like the French are appalled w/ the Anglo's and their audacity to not be French spoken on their turf... so it's like if they dislike and disrespect anyone on the planet it would be the Anglo's that live in their province first and foremost. They are very THREATENED by us... We remind them EVERY DAY that they live in Canada, which happens to be a bilingual country that only really honors their mother tongue, which is English. It's frustrating for them obviously, but when they learn that they're a minority and that you have to give TO GET it might make the chip, that they carry on their shoulders, a little smaller.

(Sorry if I have any spelling errors, but my spell check is still not working... how about yours?)

Oh and no... Synnen, I don't believe it should be moved... it's not about giving reps.. it's about the subject matter... k? Thanks...

If it's not about reps, then moving it to "Member's Discussion" wouldn't hurt a bit--it's a place where there ARE no reps!

And this thread has moved completely off topic in so many ways--it's no longer about the way people look if you're discussing Canadian politics.

I can't move it--I don't moderate here. I'm just suggesting it SHOULD be moved if the topics are going to range into general discussion rather than staying on topic.

I don't think that Sweet Dee understands what you are saying Synn.

Sweet Dee, the member discussion forum is a better place for this thread to go. We are going way off topic, and that's okay in member discussion, but here, it's not.

It would give us the freedom to discuss whatever we want and not have to stick so diligently to the topic.

I think that moving it is a good idea, otherwise we run the risk of it being closed because we got off topic.

I understand now. Thanks for explaining it to me Altenweg. Xo

I do have something to add to this thread and it's keeping it on topic, of all accidental things... lol.

Last night I went out to dinner w/ my sister in law and her sister in law. This woman, Gerta, never usually gives me the time of day. I mean, I could be talking to her about something (to make small talk and be polite) and she'll switch gears and begin talking to someone else MID Conversation... Well last night she did it again!

The history between us is simple. She doesn't like me, but she has some good skills when it comes to hiding it and manipulating... She's the type of person who is actually quite enteraining... she likes to be the one who gets all the attention... which is perfectly fine w/ me. She's has certain opinions about me... which I don't know what they are, but I know that they are not good. She spends as much time as she can trying to find ways to put me down. Like last night... She's transparent... and unfortunately I have to see her again tonight... (but I really want to see all the kids because they're from out of town... and MOSTLY have my daughter see all her cousins... I'll suck it up gladly for my child).

She is a typical example of the type of person who will decide negative things about me w/out knowing me... She gives the illusion of trying to get to know me but between US we know it's not real. She's too busy pointing out certain things to try and make me look bad all in the name of trying to get to know me!

I'm going to have to put up w/ more of that bull tonight...

I may not be her "cup of tea", but HEY she's not mine either. I would never try and make her feel uncomfortable... What's the point of that?

There are certain people that you will just never get along with, no matter what.

It could be she's jealous of something, or just a naturally vindictive person. People who are unhappy in their own lives often try to make others as miserable as them.

My way to deal with people like that, smile, big smile, like you mean it, and be a bundle of sunshine. Pour it on thick, never stop smiling. If she interrupts you just say "Oops, sorry I didn't realize that you had something to say, go ahead, I'm all ears". :)

If negativity comes out just brush it off or laugh.

I think people like that, do it because of their own insecurities. They need to bring you down below their level, just in order to feel good about themselves. She is likely the type that doesn't have any real friends, because she feels inadequate.

My sister has a friend just like this, and she is as phony as a $3 bill. Everyone I know has her "number". Both in the litteral and figurative sense. She is a pretty girl, but she becomes really ugly when you get to know her. She struts her 'stuff' around, and likes to critique everyone else in the room, when in reality, she can't keep any friends, and she has never been able to hold on to any man, and she is in her mid 40's.

So, the way I see her, is that she can't stand to see average looking people (or below/above average) having close friends, or seeing them happily married, because she hasn't been able to achieve that because of her holier than thou attitude.

I think people like that, do it because of their own insecurities. They need to bring you down below their level, just in order to feel good about themselves. She is likely the type that doesn't have any real friends, because she feels inadequate.

My sister has a friend just like this, and she is as phony as a $3 bill. Everyone I know has her "number". Both in the litteral and figurative sense. She is a pretty girl, but she becomes really ugly when you get to know her. She struts her 'stuff' around, and likes to critique everyone else in the room, when in reality, she can't keep any friends, and she has never been able to hold on to any man, and she is in her mid 40's.

So, the way I see her, is that she can't stand to see average looking people (or below/above average) having close friends, or seeing them happily married, because she hasn't been able to achieve that because of her holier than thou attitude.



I always think these people are terribly insecure - they seem to have some need to impress themselves because pretty much nobody else is paying any attention.

I hear you guys... but it doesn't erase the fact that I was put in an awkward position and it was no fun for me... I did act overly polite and "sunny"... It would be nice if people just gave everyone an equal opportunity.

How would she have felt if I walked up to her and gave her an up and down look, then started giving her attitude. Every time I tried to contribute to a conversation she'd interrupt me w/ a counter point! Like it was a debate!! For goodness sakes...

I get very tired of trying to be nice to jelouse people. My mother always used to tell me when I was a young girl that when you're beautiful it's very similar to being very unattractive... socially. It's equally hard to find your niche, even if it is for opposite reasons. She said that I have to prove my worth... show people how funny I am, how smart, how loyal, how trustworthy I am... the list goes on. I have found some very good friends in my life... None of them think a lick about "looks"...

Luckily we age as humans. It works for me...

Thing is, as hard as it is for me to believe... I still have to deal w/ this woman in my life and it brings me back to the crappy days where I used to worry about my social standing... (like high school). We're ADULTS now... why do I let myself get drawn in? I'm so stupid sometimes!