I want to know if I could be facing charges for fraud. I own the bank 100K and I plan on filing for bankruptcy. Right now I there are no charges against me but if I file for bankruptcy can the bank then decide to charge me. It is a case that I took to the police and I told them what happened. There were 3 bad cheques deposited into my account and I withdrew the money. 30 days later I find out the cheques didn’t clear and I’m down 100K. All this happened about 2 years ago and nothing has changed beside my credit report being real bad.

Did you know that the three checks were bad when you deposited them? I am assuming that you were the one that deposited them?

Did you know that the three checks were bad when you deposited them? I am assuming that you were the one that deposited them?


No I did not deposit the check myself. I asumed the checks were good because the bank release the funds.

Hello again, help me:

Of course you could be facing criminal charges. I don't think you're guilty of a crime, but that never stopped the DA from filing charges.

excon

Did you fall for a nigerian scam? Where did these checks originate from?

Hello again, help me:

Of course you could be facing criminal charges. I don't think you're guilty of a crime, but that never stopped the DA from filing charges.

excon


If I could be facing criminal charges why haven’t I been charged yet it has been more than two years since it happened. If they are planning on charging me what are they waiting for?

Hello again, helpme:

I don't know. The key word is "could".

excon

Most likely you have not been charged because the bank was hoping you would still pay, once any civil way of collecting the money is closed, ( they can no longer sue you or garnish your wages) they may look at criminal charges if they are still within the Statue of Limitation for the crimnal case.

So what happens, someone promised you 10 percent or @ that to cash checks for them, and then take the money and send it western union to them, ** OK this is one of the oldest scams out there, and yes, you are guility of fraud, since you put into your bank account most likely frauded checks or stolen checks. And the bank clearing the money does not mean the checks cleared, they do not clear till they actually go to the other bank and are accepted.
The issue is, if they were stolen checks or fraud checks, it may take 4 to 8 weeks for them to be found by the real bank account and reported.

And yes people are arrested and go to jail every month for this same thing when they don't pay this money back.

Most likely you have not been charged because the bank was hoping you would still pay, once any civil way of collecting the money is closed, ( they can no longer sue you or garnish your wages) they may look at criminal charges if they are still within the Statue of Limitation for the crimnal case.

So what happens, someone promised you 10 percent or @ that to cash checks for them, and then take the money and send it western union to them, ** ok this is one of the oldest scams out there, and yes, you are guility of fraud, since you put into your bank account most likely frauded checks or stolen checks. And the bank clearing the money does not mean the checks cleared, they do not clear till they actually go to the other bank and are accepted.
The issue is, if they were stolen checks or fraud checks, it may take 4 to 8 weeks for them to be found by the real bank account and reported.

And yes people are arrested and go to jail every month for this exact same thing when they don't pay this money back.


Your answer is good but you are wrong about one thing I did not deposit the checks into my account. When I ask the bank who deposited the checks they did not have an answer for me. I have been holding this debt for more than 2years. I also have other accounts with the same bank that are in debt
I received many letters from the bank saying what I own and I have paid a dime since. So at my question is at what point do they we are going to charge you?

I spoke to many different people at the bank and they acknowledge this as fraud and they also said that I’m responsible for the debt.

So funds were deposited in your accoun and you were not aware of the source, yet you withdrew the money anyway? That makes it worse.

There are a few unanswered questions here:

Was this a business or personal account?
Who were the checks initially made payable to?
What kind of check fraud was this (forged endorsement, counterfeit checks, etc.)?

I think you need to be a little more specific in your question before getting a more concrete answer.

However, the other members and the bank are correct in implying that you are liable for this money since you have utilized the funds without proper entitlement.

If the bank has taken a loss, they most likely have filed a police report and a SAR against you already; you just don't know it and its working its way through the system (i.e. waiting for the civil collection efforts to fail among other things).

Another scenario is that the bank could be pursuing recourse through your other accounts.

Or the bank just dropped the ball on this.

An incorrect post has been removed along with orphans caused by that removal.

Just to state the facts, I don't believe bankruptcy can remove a debt that is the result of criminal action. Even if it could, it would not affect the criminal case against the person.

An incorrect post has been removed along with orphans caused by that removal.

Just to state the facts, I don't believe bankruptcy can remove a debt that is the result of criminal action. Even if it could, it would not affect the criminal case against the person.


That’s my main concern with this. But I have been doing some research and I know I’m responsible for debt but In Canada there are procedures that banks follow before releasing funds.

1. Is there enough funds in the account to cover the cheque being deposited? (in my case no)
2. The bank should also call the other institution to verify the cheque being deposited before deciding to release the funds.
3.
I have I feeling that there is something else going on that possible someone in the bank involved in this. I talked to lawyers and the first thing they want to know is why the bank didn’t hold the funds?

That’s my main concern with this. But I have been doing some research and I know I’m responsible for debt but In Canada there are procedures that banks follow before releasing funds.

1. Is there enough funds in the account to cover the cheque being deposited? (in my case no)
2. The bank should also call the other institution to verify the cheque being deposited before deciding to release the funds.
3.
I have I feeling that there is something else going on that possible someone in the bank involved in this. I talked to lawyers and the first thing they want to know is why the bank didn’t hold the funds?



My feeling is - in the US at least - if you withdraw money that you know is in your account by mistake, not your funds, you have committed fraud (minimally) or theft and you can and will be charged. Bankruptcy in the US (at least) does not discharge debts resulting from criminal activity.

I'd worry less about the bank's liability/responsibility here and more about what can happen to you. The "I'm bad but they're worse" defense is not going to work.

[QUOTE=JudyKayTee]My feeling is - in the US at least - if you withdraw money that you know is in your account by mistake, not your funds, you have committed fraud (minimally) or theft and you can and will be charged. Bankruptcy in the US (at least) does not discharge debts resulting from criminal activity.
QUOTE]

Absolutely correct. Utilizing funds that were placed in your account even by mistake is referred to as unjust enrichment.

Take steps to try and repay it.

A bank is under no obligation to check to see if the funds are "good" from the other bank. Banks usually do this, but for some unknown reason your bank did not do this. They are not to be held at fault. You are at fault for not waiting long enough to see if the funds cleared. Or you could have gone to the bank that the funds were drawn on and withdraw the funds directly from that bank and then deposited them in your bank account. Either way, you are ultimately responsible, not your bank. Bankruptcy discharges debts and this is not a debt.

A bank is under no obligation to check to see if the funds are "good" from the other bank. Banks usually do this, but for some unknown reason your bank did not do this. They are not to be held at fault. You are at fault for not waiting long enough to see if the funds cleared. Or you could have gone to the bank that the funds were drawn on and withdraw the funds directly from that bank and then deposited them in your bank account. Either way, you are ultimately responsible, not your bank. Bankruptcy discharges debts and this is not a debt.


IF it's not a debt it's a crime. If it's crime why have I not been charged yet? Told the bank I don't have the money.

Hello again, help:

No, it can be a crime AND a debt. If you have the money, give it back.

However, at this point, I have no idea what's going on with you. If they haven't charged you yet, then go on with your life and sop worrying.

excon

<-------- NOT JUDGING

But I fail to see how you could "accidently" draw 100K out of a bank if you didn't know it was deposited to begin with.

The bank taking their time, etc. is probably just them building a tight case against you...

(BTW... I found out today that I had a 3 year old speeding ticket which was dismissed, yet never closed... and 3 years later I got sued by our city for $170... )

Imagine what they will do for a hundred grand...

There are a few unanswered questions here:

Was this a business or personal account?
Who were the checks initially made payable to?
What kind of check fraud was this (forged endorsement, counterfeit checks, etc.)?

I think you need to be a little more specific in your question before getting a more concrete answer.

However, the other members and the bank are correct in implying that you are liable for this money since you have utilized the funds without proper entitlement.

If the bank has taken a loss, they most likely have filed a police report and a SAR against you already; you just don't know it and its working its way through the system (i.e. waiting for the civil collection efforts to fail among other things).

Another scenario is that the bank could be pursuing recourse through your other accounts.

Or the bank just dropped the ball on this.





It was a personal account

The checks were made payable to me

When I asked the bank what happened they said the check were deposited by error therefore returned

Btw the follow is the last paragraph of a letter I received from a law firm representing the bank




The aforesaid sums total $98,173.81 exclusive of interest. Unless same, together with interest is paid within ten (10) days of this letter, legal proceeding will be instituted against you without further notice


The letter is dated Nov 8 2006

My point exactly! IT'S WAY MORE THAN $175!!

But thank you kindly for the little red mark against me ;)

That was sweet

My point exactly! IT'S WAY MORE THAN $175!!!

But thank you kindly for the little red mark against me ;)

That was sweet

Hello ConfusedInAK

It seems like you're saying if a person commits a bigger crime they'll wait a longer time to go after the person. I think it's the total opposite. You had a ticket that was under $200 the only reason it probably took so long is there are people owning much more than you. I mean it makes a lot more sense to me to collect from the people owning more first. I appreciate your response I just disagree because your situation is totally different than mine.

That's not what I am saying... but maybe things happen different in Canada than they would in the US...

With larger amounts of money (especially money that is no longer in your possession), they have to build a case. And after building a case against you, if they win, then they can seize your assets, etc.

Example: in 2001 my boyfriend found out his accountant never paid his taxes for 1998, 1999 or 2000 and took off with the money. Of course the IRS was aware of this but they had to build a case, check documentation, etc.

In 2003, they levied his bank account and took everything in it as well as garnish his pay check.

He only owed them $15,000...

What I am trying to express to you, is that at least here... cases have to be built against the person charged with fraud/owing money. They must go to court, notify you that you are being taken to court, etc. All of this takes time. It is not typically an instantaneous thing that a bank can collect $100K back from the person who accidentally took it out of the account.

You told them you don't have it, they know it's not in the account that you have with them.

If it had of been left in the account and not withdrawn, then I can almost guarantee you they would have just yanked it back out of your account and given you a letter of explanation.

But it's gone... and now it probably doesn't look like an accident.

Btw the follow is the last paragraph of a letter I received from a law firm representing the bank

The aforesaid sums total $98,173.81 exclusive of interest. Unless same, together with interest is paid within ten (10) days of this letter, legal proceeding will be instituted against you without further notice

The letter is dated Nov 8 2006

I would suggest you check the Statute of Limitations for your area. I can't explain why they have not pursued you. There may be extenuating circumstances we are not aware of. But if they don't charge you within a certain amount of time, they may lose the ability to do so.

I am surprised that they haven't. It appears you essentially stole this money. You knew it wasn't yours yet you withdrew it anyway. Because of that, I don't feel good about helping you, but the SOL may be your salvation here.

I would suggest you check the Statute of Limitations for your area. I can't explain why they have not pursued you. There may be extenuating circumstances we are not aware of. But if they don't charge you within a certain amount of time, they may lose the ability to do so.

I am surprised that they haven't. It appears you essentially stole this money. You knew it wasn't yours yet you withdrew it anyway. Because of that, I don't feel good about helping you, but the SOL may be your salvation here.


No I did not steal the money if that was the case I would still have it. The Bank knows I was duped and I actually know person that had my account information. The problem is she gave it to someone else, that I don’t know, they made the deposit. I been trying since the time it happened to find anyone of these people with no luck. The checks that were deposited into my account were not counterfeit there was just a stop payment on after they were deposited. IF you were helping you would be giving advice how to find the people that duped me. It’s very simple if I had the money I would just give it back. The people that played me for a fool have it.

Bank and police don't reallly care, sad truth, they have you, and will send you to jail. So you go get an attorney, and they see if they can work out a deal.

The truth of the matter, so you were cheated by others, that is your problem, ( don't mean to sound rude but you don't seem to accept the plain facts) the bank does not care about the other person, the bank does not care about the stop payments, and the bank does not care who or where the money went. They have you, and it went though YOUR bank account, and they want you to get their money or pay them back. So you had better be getting an attorney and sueing the other people if you know where the money went.

If you want advice on how to find the other people, that is antoher question, the question here is what can happen, and basically you can most likely get a civil judgement against you, and maybe go to jail, So you need an attorney and need one fast.

Bank and police dont reallly care, sad truth, they have you, and will send you to jail. So you go get an attorney, and they see if they can work out a deal.

The truth of the matter, so you were cheated by others, that is your problem, ( don't mean to sound rude but you don't seem to accept the plain facts) the bank does not care about the other person, the bank does not care about the stop payments, and the bank does not care who or where the money went. They have you, and it went though YOUR bank account, and they want you to get thier money or pay them back. So you had better be getting an attorney and sueing the other people if you know where the money went.

If you want advice on how to find the other people, that is antoher question, the question here is what can happen, and basicly you can most likely get a civil judgement against you, and maybe go to jail, So you need an attorney and need one fast.


There is a civil judgment against me last year the following is an example of what is on my credit report

Public Records
Legal Item #******
Reported: 02/08/2007
Revised 06/05/2007
Satisfied:
Type: Judgment
Original: 100K
Balance: -$1
Plaintiff Bank
Third Party:
Status
Remarks: Balance not available from credit grantor

Yes, so if they have not already started a garnishment of your pay, they can, The judgement held you liable, legally, with that, did you use or try any defense at that trial.

Yes, so if they have not already started a garnishment of your pay, they can, The judgement held you liable, legally, with that, did you use or try any defense at that trial.



I appreciate all the feed back I've been getting, even though I don't agree with it all. The one thing I know for sure is I have a major debt. Whether the bank wants to sue me for fraud is my main concern. But I doubt they will because they would have to prove that I knew the checks would be returned or they would have to prove that I have the money. I have all the documents showing where the money went. And the bank is only concerned with getting the money back so by them suing for fraud won't do that. All the money I had before those checks were deposited were in the same bank, that was the only bank I dealt with so I have absolutely nothing, I feel like I've been rapped.
I'm not the smartest guy, as you can see by the situation I'm in. But many of you don't seem to understand the meaning of fraud

No I did not steal the money if that was the case I would still have it. The Bank knows I was duped and I actually know person that had my account information. The problem is she gave it to someone else, that I don't know, they made the deposit. I been trying since the time it happened to find anyone of these people with no luck. The checks that were deposited into my account were not counterfeit there was just a stop payment on after they were deposited. IF you were helping you would be giving advice how to find the people that duped me. It's very simple if I had the money I would just give it back. The people that played me for a fool have it.


I think you should be talking to an Attorney about this - as this has played out the situation has changed.

I see you being charged with fraud as well as conspiracy.

And it's not all that simple - you were a party in this. You are responsible. I find it difficult to believe that you gave these funds to "people" you don't know or can't find.

Yes, it's Attorney time.

I appreciate all the feed back I’ve been getting, even though I don’t agree with it all. The one thing I know for sure is I have a major debt. Whether the bank wants to sue me for fraud is my main concern. But I doubt they will because they would have to prove that I knew the checks would be returned or they would have to prove that I have the money. I have all the documents showing where the money went. And the bank is only concerned with getting the money back so by them suing for fraud won’t do that. All the money I had before those checks were deposited were in the same bank, that was the only bank I dealt with so I have absolutely nothing, I feel like I’ve been rapped.
I'm not the smartest guy, as you can see by the situation I’m in. But many of you don’t seem to understand the meaning of fraud



I think we do agree with you on the meaning of fraud.

What we don't agree with you on is who committed the fraud.

Whether the bank wants to sue me for fraud is my main concern. But I doubt they will because they would have to prove that I knew the checks would be returned or they would have to prove that I have the money. I have all the documents showing where the money went. And the bank is only concerned with getting the money back so by them suing for fraud won’t do that. All the money I had before those checks were deposited were in the same bank, that was the only bank I dealt with so I have absolutely nothing, I feel like I’ve been rapped.
I'm not the smartest guy, as you can see by the situation I’m in. But many of you don’t seem to understand the meaning of fraud

I'm getting very confused here as your story seems to be a moving target. At one point you say you asked the bank who deposited the checks. But you say you gave the money to someone else who has now disappeared.

Either you are a thief or incredibly foolish.

But the bottomline here is what you did with the money is your own business. The bank only knows and cares you you withdrew the money. They do NOT need to prove that you have the money only that you withdrew it. I don't think they need to prove that you knew the checks would bounce.

But if they have sued you and obtained a judgement then its unlikley they will now pursue criminal charges.

I'm getting very confused here as your story seems to be a moving target. At one point you say you asked the bank who deposited the checks. But you say you gave the money to someone else who has now disappeared.

Either you are a thief or incredibly foolish.

But the bottomline here is what you did with the money is your own business. The bank only knows and cares you you withdrew the money. They do NOT need to prove that you have the money only that you withdrew it. I don't think they need to prove that you knew the checks would bounce.

But if they have sued you and obtained a judgement then its unlikley they will now pursue criminal charges.

Like said before I didn't steal the money and yes in this situation I was incredibly foolish. But what I’m telling you is only the reader digest version I think it took the people that duped me a more than 18 months for this to happen.

And remember another users comment about banking procedure was completely wrong at least in Canada. I’d like to see anyone with a balance of $2000 dollars and an average credit have their bank release a $35000 check into their account two days after was deposited.

I said before I believe there was also someone within the bank working against. The bank has cameras and it’s very easy to match the time on the camera and the time of the deposit to at least get a picture of the person that made the deposit. But yet they refuse to release this information to me, I wonder why?

Another thing that is very strange is every time I do any type of transaction at the bank they always require me to swipe my bank card and enter my PIN and a few times I didn't have my bank card they asked me for ID; I wonder how this person was able deposit the checks at my branch with either?

Hello again, helpme:

The Nigerian check scam works because they can't ever find the guy who wrote the checks...

However, YOUR check scam had some REAL person deposit the checks, and then a REAL person got the money from you. Has that person been arrested?

You keep on blaming the bank, but I don't know why. They have NO responsibility to insure the checks that are deposited are good. That's NONE, as in IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT that you got taken. IF there IS somebody in the bank whose a crook, the guy who you gave the money to should be able to tell them exactly who it is. But HE doesn't need an accomplice - he's got YOU.

However, this has NOTHING to do with YOU and YOUR liability to the bank. You want to know if YOU can be charged?? Ask the cop who you told who got the money. I'm sure he investigated. If the cop thinks YOU did something, I'm sure he'll tell you. Nobody wants to keep secrets here - except maybe YOU. Why don't you want to tell us who HAS the money??

Filing bankruptcy has NOTHING to do with whether you'll be charged. NOTHING!!

excon

I said before I believe there was also someone within the bank working against. The bank has cameras and it’s very easy to match the time on the camera and the time of the deposit to at least get a picture of the person that made the deposit. But yet they refuse to release this information to me, I wonder why?

Another thing that is very strange is every time I do any type of transaction at the bank they always require me to swipe my bank card and enter my pin number and a few times I didn't have my bank card they asked me for ID; I wonder how this person was able deposit the checks at my branch with either?

I'm still confused. According to you, someone deposited checks in your account totally unbeknownst to you. You then withdrew this money and handed it over to someone stranger. This goes beyond foolish.

As to the banks handing over the tapes, that would only be done by subpeona in a criminal case.

As to allowing for a depost without your pin or card, why would someone deposit money in someone else's account?

Like said before I didn't steal the money and yes in this situation I was incredibly foolish. But what I’m telling you is only the reader digest version I think it took the people that duped me a more than 18 months for this to happen.

And remember another users comment about banking procedure was completely wrong at least in Canada. I’d like to see anyone with a balance of $2000 dollars and an average credit have their bank release a $35000 check into their account two days after was deposited.

I said before I believe there was also someone within the bank working against. The bank has cameras and it’s very easy to match the time on the camera and the time of the deposit to at least get a picture of the person that made the deposit. But yet they refuse to release this information to me, I wonder why?

Another thing that is very strange is every time I do any type of transaction at the bank they always require me to swipe my bank card and enter my pin number and a few times I didn't have my bank card they asked me for ID; I wonder how this person was able deposit the checks at my branch with either?

Let me see if I have this straight. You go to the bank one day and find out that $100K has mysteriously appeared in your account. You have no idea where the money came from. So, instead of asking to talk to someone at the bank about where this large sum of money came from, you withdraw it. And then you give the 100K to some stranger that you now can't find? If that's the actual situation, the minute you withdrew the 100K, knowing that it shouldn't have been there, is when you committed theft.

I'm still confused. According to you, someone deposited checks in your account totally unbeknownst to you. You then withdrew this money and handed it over to someone stranger. This goes beyond foolish.

As to the banks handing over the tapes, that would only be done by subpeona in a criminal case.

As to allowing for a depost without your pin or card, why would someone deposit money in someone else's account?


That’s correct someone I didn't know deposited the money. Basically I was told the funds would be wired to my account from someone I did know (fraudster#1) she then gives my account info to the person I don’t know (fraudster#2) who makes the deposit. I know it goes beyond foolish but it happened and not only to me. And to answer your last question

“As to allowing for a deposit without your pin or card, why would someone deposit money in someone else's account?”

Like I said my bank always asked me for my bankcard or ID when making a transaction

And now I know why someone would put money in someone else’s account.

Hello again, helpme:

The Nigerian check scam works because they can't ever find the guy who wrote the checks........

However, YOUR check scam had some REAL person deposit the checks, and then a REAL person got the money from you. Has that person been arrested?

You keep on blaming the bank, but I dunno why. They have NO responsibility to insure the checks that are deposited are good. That's NONE, as in IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT that you got taken. IF there IS somebody in the bank whose a crook, the guy who you gave the money to should be able to tell them exactly who it is. But HE doesn't need an accomplice - he's got YOU.

However, this has NOTHING to do with YOU and YOUR liability to the bank. You wanna know if YOU can be charged???? Ask the cop who you told who got the money. I'm sure he investigated. If the cop thinks YOU did something, I"m sure he'll tell you. Nobody wants to keep secrets here - except maybe YOU. Why don't you want to tell us who HAS the money????



Filing bankruptcy has NOTHING to do with whether or not you'll be charged. NOTHING!!!!!

excon



Ask the police who have the money they have all the copies of receipts of where it was sent. Believe me I'm not keeping any secrets and I not blaming the Bank I know it's my debt I just don't think they are willing to help me in anyway. Like who made the deposit.
One strange thing that one of the ladies at the Bank said to when I asked for the name of the person that made the deposit so I can go after them, was be very careful these people are very dangerous.

That’s correct someone I didn't know deposited the money. Basically I was told the funds would be wired to my account from someone I did know (fraudster#1) she then gives my account info to the person I don’t know (fraudster#2) who makes the deposit. I know it goes beyond foolish but it happened and not only to me. And to answer your last question


Now we are back to describing the Nigerian scam. You gave fraudster #1 your account info. That account info was used to wire the funds into your account. No one walked up to a teller to make a deposit.

This also means that you knew the funds were going to be deposited, its not like they mysteriously appeared one day.

No, this hasn't happened only to you. Greedy people have been falling for this scam for years because it promises them a quick return for apparently little effort. That's probably why the bank has not pursued criminal charges, because this is such a common scam.

Hello again, help:

So, you're just not going to tell us who you gave the money too, huh?

If you're this evasive with the cops, I'll bet they DO arrest you.

excon

Hello again, help:

So, you're just not gonna tell us who you gave the money too, huh?

If you're this evasive with the cops, I'll bet they DO arrest you.

excon


No gave the names to the cops already me giving you names would help. Unless you know how to track people down,

Hello again, help:

I don't want to know their names. I want to know their relationship. And, now I don't want to know that either. Trying to get a straight story out of you is like pulling teeth. Have a nice life.

excon

Hello again, help:

I don't wanna know their names. I wanna know their relationship. And, now I don't wanna know that either. Trying to get a straight story out of you is like pulling teeth. Have a nice life.

excon



If the DA wanted "them," the DA could track "them" down for fraud. Also a Licensed Private Investigator who may or may not only work through an Attorney.

If the DA wanted "them," the DA could track "them" down for fraud. Also a Licensed Private Investigator who may or may not only work through an Attorney.

If I have a copy of a persons passport would there be away for me to track them down myself?

If I have a copy of a persons passport would there be away for me to track them down myself?



What's their Country of origin?

This is sounding more and more like the Nigerian scam. I recently read an article that these people are never caught.

What's their Country of origin?

Canada