So I was at a superstore loblaws me and my sister, were looking around she got some cream and makeup while I was looking at razor blades. She came to the razor section where I was and she put her stuff in her bag then I tosses her my razor and she put in into her bag and we walked out, and approached by a guy outside, took us back, called cop, etc etc. he told us we'd been charged with theft under 5000, made us sign a paper to have fingerprints and court date etc. the store said it will send a cheque for like 200 for us to pay back. Total of items was 112 or something like that. First of all, I duno why I was charged, they said I put the razor in her purse which I didn't, and they said it looked planned which it also wasn't. Ive been so freaked out since then, I duno what to expect. Both of us are clean, no record, no run-ins with the law, I'm 2nd yr uni, she's 3rd yr uni. Im so lost right now, I duno what to expect, we can't hire a lawyer its too much, it's a first offence as well. We have a court date at same time, together. I'm thinking they will just give us community service and such, since its our first offence, but I'm so scared, since there is possible jail time and could be on record. I was wondering how the judge looks over case? For these minor cases does he actually look at video and evidence and stuff, like is it presented to him? Or do we go in front of a judge , the two of us and tell him what happened and he tells us the consequences. Could someone explain what happens, I can't even sleep. By the way I'm 18 turning 19 in sept, and my sis is 20. I duno if this matters but we weren't taken to police station when it happened, given the ticket for the court date and let to go home. Thanks

Also, I was wondering if the court sends things to us in the mail like reminders of the court date because I don't want my parents to find out, and another question I forgot was, how will this record affect me traveling, for example I want to go to cube over the winter break. Will that be possible or no?

So, joker, while you were throwing the razors in her bag, along with the makeup and cream; were you smiling, like you thought you were putting something over on the store. They have cameras all over Loblaws, love, no one misses anything. You were caught (and you said another, had you done this before?). You were both stealing and thinking it was a real lark. You will regret this ever happened down the line when you have a really good job lined up and wonder about a previous police record. Way to go.

The Judge. Well that is a different story. With all the theft going on at all different stores, he is quite cognizant of first time offenders and I don't think he likes the idea of all this happening.

How could you steal, being university students, getting ahead, working hard, maybe bored. Can't you g et jobs to pay for what you want.

Go to court. You make me sick. Other people have to pay for your mistakes and rising costs the stores have to cover for this kind of activity.

And no, they don't send reminders. They expect you to still be responsible enough to attend the first hearing.

No I have not done it before, this is my first time. It was a stupid mistake, and I'm scared as to what will happen. Its my first offence

OK, yes, expect several papers to be mailed, so you had better talk to parents, and personlly I would be asking to borrow the money for an attorney, with an attorney you may get it under a diversion program where there will be no record, if not, you will have a criminal record for the rest of your life, lose out on many job chances when it shows up, even 20 years from now.

But I thought they are pretty easy with a first offense. And it wasn't even that bad, reading around the forums I hear that a lot of people don't go into court with an attorney, as the judge just sentences them to community service or video watching or whatnot because he doesn't want to waste time with little things like this. I've ever read about a guy who was sentenced to a class where there were 2nd and 3rd time offenders for theft under 5000 so how serious can this be. Look I'm not saying what I did was right, I want to kill myself for it, I feel like such a lowlife and am so embarrassed, but I do have a clean record and am in university, etc etc same with my sister, it was a one time thing and I'm sure the judge will see that I'm sympathetic and will order community service or whatnot. And what papers will be mailed? The person above said no papers will come

but i thought they are pretty easy with a first offense. and it wasn't even that bad, reading around the forums i hear that alot of people dont go into court with an attorney, as the judge just sentences them to community service or video watching or whatnot because he doesnt wanna waste time with little things like this. ive ever read about a guy who was sentenced to a class where there were 2nd and 3rd time offenders for theft under 5000 so how serious can this be. look im not saying wat i did was right, i wanna kill myself for it, i feel like such a lowlife and am so embarrassed, but I do have a clean record and am in university, etc etc same with my sister, it was jus a one time thing and im sure the judge will see that im sympathetic and will order community service or whatnot. and what papers will be mailed? the person above said no papers will come



How do you think they're going to notify you if they don't send papers to your residence?

If you are "sure" the Judge will see you are sympathetic and order community service and "what not," then take your chances.

Im not 'sure' of anything, I'm just saying that is what I think should be the turnout judging from what I've read around the forums, people have stolen more than I have and got nothing more than a class etc. another question is does the judge know details or just theft under 5000, whether 5$ or 500$? Also the cop that came to the store at to give us the court date and stuff even said its just going to be a slap on the wrist. Its got me so worried and distressed I can't go about my normal day anymore I'm so scared. And also I was just wondering if the papers will be sent, because he already gave us a ticket and all that, only thing I know is that the store will send me a bill to pay through the mail

Ok, first, You were aware that your sister had put items, including the razors you picked in her purse. You then walked out of the store without paying for the items and you don't understand why you were charged? Give me a break!

However, fortunately for you, shoplifting is a petty crime and dealt with fairly leniently, especially for a first offense.

So Loblaws said they would send you a 'cheque', you probably mean a bill to pay for the items stolen. That is a real stretch of the imagination. Seeing as you stole them, how would Loblaws expect you to pay through the mail or otherwise. I think you will have to cough up the money when you get to court.

So Loblaws said they would send you a 'cheque', you probably mean a bill to pay for the items stolen. That is a real stretch of the imagination. Seeing as you stole them, how would Loblaws expect you to pay through the mail or otherwise. I think you will have to cough up the money when you get to court.

This is probably a fine. If they were apprehended leaving the store, then the items were probably recovered. But Canadian case law allows the store to impose a fine as discouragement (file://\\discouragement) for future crimes.

It is a fine,they told me that they'll send me a bill in the mail I don't see how it's a stretch of imagination. The officer did not even take us back to the police station he gave us a ticket saying a court date. He said it'll prob be a slap on the wrist because we're first timers and clean records, etc. we are going in without a lawyer, how will this work? Will it be me and my sis in front of a judge in a room, no one else, and we will discuss what happened? I'm so rattled, I don't know what to think anymore.

This is probably a fine. If they were apprehended leaving the store, then the items were probably recovered. But Canadian case law allows the store to impose a fine as discouragement (file://\\discouragement) for future crimes.
And yes the items were recovered, unopened, undamaged, and to scottgem the reason I ask why I got charged is because he charged me as if I stole 110 $ or whatever it was, even though I did not put the other items into the purse, I gaev her the razor and she put it in, so technically I didn't steal 110, only like 20 or whatnot, I duno if you can even technically say I did because she physically put it in. I duno this is all so messed up, I regret it everyday it's the only thing on my mind right now, I hope your right though scottgem, that its treated leniently to first timers, because I know I WILL NEVER EVER DO IT AGAIN, under any circumstance, right now I'm scared to even go shopping lol

and yes the items were recovered, unopened, undamaged, and to scottgem the reason i ask y i got charged is because he charged me as if i stole 110 $ or whatever it was, even tho i did not put the other items into the purse, i jus gaev her the razor and she put it in, so technically i didnt steal 110, only like 20 or whatnot, i duno if u can even technically say i did cus she physically put it in. i duno this is all so messed up, i regret it everyday its the only thing on my mind right now, i hope your right tho scottgem, that its treated leniently to first timers, cus i know i WILL NEVER EVER DO IT AGAIN, under any circumstance, right now im scared to even go shopping lol


You're a University student - please speak English, not text speak.

I don't think I'd raise the "technicality" issue in Court.

You're a University student - please speak English, not text speak.

I don't think I'd raise the "technicality" issue in Court.

Ok, my apologies, I was not aware that there is correct etiquette for online forum posts. I do not think that it really matters how I type on here, I'm obviously not interested in my grammar or spelling and am obviously just quickly replying to these posts.

Relax man this isn't something to lose sleep over. If its just a misdemeanor then the most they can possibly give you is 11 months and 29 days which I'm almost positive they won't give you. Don't worry about getting a paid lawyer because I don't think this is worthy of taking to trial. You will be appointed a public defender, and even though they may look a little rough, they have all of the same resources as a paid attorney. Don't pay any attention to what these other guys on here are telling you. Something this petty is not going to bar you from employment anywhere. Just keep in touch with your lawyer or public defender and things will turn out fine. I'm sure the judge will give you 11/29 probation and no jail time. Trust me I've been through this.

It really doesn't matter whether you stole items worth $10, $100, or $1000. Under your laws, as long as its under $5K its lumped together. Nor does it matter, under the law, whether what you stole was a fraction of the total or an equal part. You were both equally guilty of theft.

Relax man this isnt something to lose sleep over. If its just a misdemeanor then the most they can possibly give you is 11 months and 29 days which I'm almost positive they wont give you. Don't worry about getting a paid lawyer because I don't think this is worthy of taking to trial. You will be appointed a public defender, and even though they may look a little rough, they have all of the same resources as a paid attorney. Don't pay any attention to what these other guys on here are telling you. Something this petty is not going to bar you from employment anywhere. Just keep in touch with your lawyer or public defender and things will turn out fine. I'm sure the judge will give you 11/29 probation and no jail time. Trust me I've been through this.


Are you aware OP is in Canada? With all respect unless you are in Canada you haven't gone through this.

Relax man this isnt something to lose sleep over.

While I don't disagree that this is a minor thing to get resolved and put behind him. I think you are trivializing it too much. Its still theft and its still an illegal act. While the penalities for a first time offender will be very minor and may not result in an criminal record, its still a cause for concern.

Well I was unaware that this whole thing originated out of Canada so I apologize. Just be thankful that this didn't happen in Saudi Arabia because you would be typing this post with your toes. Ultimately, I still think this won't turn out too bad so like I said just take it easy.

Relax man this isnt something to lose sleep over. If its just a misdemeanor then the most they can possibly give you is 11 months and 29 days which I'm almost positive they wont give you. Don't worry about getting a paid lawyer because I don't think this is worthy of taking to trial. You will be appointed a public defender, and even though they may look a little rough, they have all of the same resources as a paid attorney. Don't pay any attention to what these other guys on here are telling you. Something this petty is not going to bar you from employment anywhere. Just keep in touch with your lawyer or public defender and things will turn out fine. I'm sure the judge will give you 11/29 probation and no jail time. Trust me I've been through this.

I know its not THAT bad, I'm just really worried, but thanks for telling me this it helped. What does 11/29 probation mean? I plan on going to cuba this winter, will that affect my travel plans, and can I even go out on probation? My birthday is right after court and I want to have a huge party. :S

Yeah just don't miss any court dates or appointments with your probation officer and it shouldn't matter where you go. Tell your probation officer ahead of time that your leaving. 11/29 probation means 11 months and 29 days of meeting with your probation officer typically about once a month. You could be eligible for early termination of probation provided that you have complied with all of the terms of your probation after about like 6 months. But I don't know dude, if your in Canada then they might just hang you in the town square. I'm not familiar with criminal laws and minimum mandatories there.

Your probation will probably not be monitored. But if you get caught doing something wrong during the period, then the probation will be revoked. Having a birthday party shouldn't be a problem. Nor should the traveling.

Yeah scotty boy is right. There is a good chance that they should put you on what is called unsupervised probation. Then you wouldn't have to report to any probation officer.

More than likely, that was the store's LP that caught you two on camera and a lot of stores have signs everywhere that says they will prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, so I'm thinking there will either be jail time and/or fines. If you get a nice judge, you two may just get a fine since this is your first offense. However, that's not a guarantee. This is just an opinion of mine so do with it what you will...

More than likely, that was the store's LP that caught you two on camera and a lot of stores have signs everywhere that says they will prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, so I'm thinking there will either be jail time and/or fines. If you get a nice judge, you two may just get a fine since this is your first offense. However, that's not a guarantee. This is just an opinion of mine so do with it what you will...


He's in Canada - he's got a real good chance at diversion. This may be true in US but not in Canada.

We seem to be attracting some immature people to this topic and if I could up a disagree to patt24K's disagree I would. Of course on JKT's post.

Loblaws's Superstore is in Canada, they are all over Ontario, and quite large, however, very well maintained and probably have some really good inobstrusive surrveillance equipment in all their departments. I don't think very much escapes their 'eyes' and one can even locate their 'spotters' .

I don't know if the courts can keep up with this sort of activity any longer, surely something will have to be done. There are a lot of people stealing just food items, which makes this one instance so more alarming.

Two university students stealing and then worrying what their parents will think bothers me a lot. With the cost of this continuing education in Canada escalating at an alarming rate (and no doubt in the US) there probably is a lot of trust involved that kids will just buckle down and not be sideetracked by activities such as stealing. Although, I see it as a diversion, boredom, which is really bad. I would like to know if these two have all the amentities of living at home with food on the table. I know for sure there are students out there who really care what they are working towards and not taking money for education for granted living in residences where they don't have access to their parents, good meals and a friendly atmosphere.

When my son was born my husband saw the need for an investment called 'University Scholarship Fund' and started paying $60. A month from the time he was born, by the time he enrolled in college, that money had already been invested and was there for his tuition, books, possible accommodation if he needed it (he didnt) and lots of continuing education.

Off my soapbox

Hey, you guys are too fast. I already disagreed with a balancer on JKY's post and its already gone. Give me a break here!

Sorry JKT I hope you knew what I meant !

More than likely, that was the store's LP that caught you two on camera and a lot of stores have signs everywhere that says they will prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, so I'm thinking there will either be jail time and/or fines. If you get a nice judge, you two may just get a fine since this is your first offense. However, that's not a guarantee. This is just an opinion of mine so do with it what you will...

Jail time? Are you serious? How could I get jail time for this, surely they won't do anything like that, we are bot university students, it was a mistake I admit a very bad one, and it's a First offense, absolutely CLEAN record, have not even got a speeding ticket, NOTHING, I've never even spoken to a police officer in my life, so how could I possibly get jail time? Also I've read many many posts on here about theft under 5000, not one single person got jail time, most either get class, or get put into diversion. I am so freaked out that you even mentioned jail time, I really don't think that's a possibility, right? I mean even the cop said its just a slap on the wrist, he told me not to go in with shorts, to dress nice. What I envision is me and my sis standing in front of the judge, we tell our story, and she gives us either a class to attend and a fine or community service or something. I mean come on, jail time? Can't be.

Relax man this isnt something to lose sleep over. If its just a misdemeanor then the most they can possibly give you is 11 months and 29 days which I'm almost positive they wont give you. Don't worry about getting a paid lawyer because I don't think this is worthy of taking to trial. You will be appointed a public defender, and even though they may look a little rough, they have all of the same resources as a paid attorney. Don't pay any attention to what these other guys on here are telling you. Something this petty is not going to bar you from employment anywhere. Just keep in touch with your lawyer or public defender and things will turn out fine. I'm sure the judge will give you 11/29 probation and no jail time. Trust me I've been through this.

I live in Ontario, there's no 11/29 is there? And I doubt they will give me jail time. And about this public defender where can I contact one? Are they appointed in the court or what? Can I speak with one before the court date?

Jail time? are u serious? how could i get jail time for this, surely they wont do anything like that,

If you read the previous responses and the many other threads from young people who made the same foolish mistake, you can put your mind at ease. Canada has a diversion program like we told you. Just ask the court or your attorney about it.

If you read the previous responses and the many other threads from young people who made the same foolish mistake, you can put your mind at ease. Canada has a diversion program like we told you. Just ask the court or your attorney about it.
So would it be appropriate that I ask the judge this question in court? As I will not have an attorney. I have never been in court before and do not know how this will work, I can't picture everything that will happen. Can someone give me a brief playbyplay of what will happen that day of the court. And also does anyone who has had this happen to them know how long it took the store to mail them the fine letter?

No, you want to pursue a diversion BEFORE you go before a judge. As I said there are a large number of similar threads here. BEFORE your hearing visit the court and ask about a diversion, they will explain what you need to do.

so would it be appropriate that I ask the judge this question in court? as i will not have an attorney. I have never been in court before and do not know how this will work,. i can't picture everything that will happen. can someone give me a brief playbyplay of what will happen that day of the court. and also does anyone who has had this happen to them know how long it took the store to mail them the fine letter?


I'm quoting myself here:

"Each courthouse in Ontario has a different diversion program and eligibility requirements differ from region to region. Eligibility for the diversion program is always determined by the Crown Attorney's office. If they deem a theft offence to be of a minor nature (usually a small quantity of merchandise was taken and the property was recovered), the Crown may pre-approve eligibility into the diversion program. A person will not generally be eligible for diversion if they have had prior dealings with the police (even if it did not result in a criminal charge being laid). Once in the diversion program, the eligible candidate may be asked to complete one of a number of different tasks. In some jurisdictions, a person charged with theft may be required to watch a video on shoplifting. In other jurisdictions they may be required to make a donation to charity or complete a minimum number of community service hours - or both. Regardless of the requirements, the end result is usually the same. Once the diversion program has been completed to the satisfaction of the Crown Attorney, the Crown will recommend to the court that the criminal charge of theft be withdrawn against the accused person. This will result in the accused person maintaining a clean record (assuming they didn't have a prior criminal record).

If a person is not pre-screened as eligible for the diversion program, a lawyer may be able to convince a Crown Attorney to reconsider their decision. "

I'm quoting myself here:

"Each courthouse in Ontario has a different diversion program and eligibility requirements differ from region to region. Eligibility for the diversion program is always determined by the Crown Attorney's office. If they deem a theft offence to be of a minor nature (usually a small quantity of merchandise was taken and the property was recovered), the Crown may pre-approve eligibility into the diversion program. A person will not generally be eligible for diversion if they have had prior dealings with the police (even if it did not result in a criminal charge being laid). Once in the diversion program, the eligible candidate may be asked to complete one of a number of different tasks. In some jurisdictions, a person charged with theft may be required to watch a video on shoplifting. In other jurisdictions they may be required to make a donation to charity or complete a minimum number of community service hours - or both. Regardless of the requirements, the end result is usually the same. Once the diversion program has been completed to the satisfaction of the Crown Attorney, the Crown will recommend to the court that the criminal charge of theft be withdrawn against the accused person. This will result in the accused person maintaining a clean record (assuming they didn't have a prior criminal record).

If a person is not pre-screened as eligible for the diversion program, a lawyer may be able to convince a Crown Attorney to reconsider their decision. "

So then I have to visit the courthouse before the court appearance, and they can enter me into the diversion program before I ev go to court? Or they can just tell me if I am eligible etc?

So then I have to visit the courthouse before the court appearance, and they can enter me into the diversion program before i ev go to court? or they can just tell me if I am eligible etc?



Read it again and do what it says.

OK, so its been 3 weeks since the day this happened, and still I have not got anything in the mail from the store regarding a fine? They said they would send me a fine in the mail for about 200-300 dollars and still nothing and my court date is in 2 weeks. Is it going to come? Or were they just scaring me?

ok, so its been 3 weeks since the day this happened, and still I have not got anything in the mail from the store regarding a fine? They said they would send me a fine in the mail for about 200-300 dollars and still nothing and my court date is in 2 weeks. Is it going to come? or were they just scaring me?


You must have misunderstood - the STORE cannot fine you. Only the Court can fine you.

Did the Court say they would tell you how much you owe THEM (not a fine) - restitution - ?

You must have misunderstood - the STORE cannot fine you. Only the Court can fine you.

Did the Court say they would tell you how much you owe THEM (not a fine) - restitution - ?

I'm not saying they CAN fine you but they try to by sending you it in the mail but they haven't yet so I'm confused as to why not since they even said I will.

im not saying they CAN fine you but they try to by sending you it in the mail but they havent yet so im confused as to why not since they even said I will.



Once again - they CANNOT fine you. There would be no reason to send you what they claim is a notice to pay a fine. That's against the Law on their part.

There would be no reason to tell you they CAN fine you. They CAN ask you to pay restitution. That is something different than a fine - basically it's payment to them for their time/trouble/lost merchandise.

They CANNOT legally send you a "fine" in the mail and "try" to fine you.

You misunderstood.

I have no idea why they said they would send you some sort of bill and have not - I'm sure you will find out when you go to Court.

Maybe they dropped the whole thing. No one knows but the store and perhaps the Court.

I initially had the same reaction as Judy, but I found some case law (can't find it right now) where the courts gave the right to "fine" a shoplifter. The idea was to provide a deterrant. The case was bought against the Hudson's Bay Co. and the court's affirmed their ability to charge the offender an amount for such a crime. I believe the idea is reimbursement for the time of the security guard in processing.

I initially had the same reaction as Judy, but I found some case law (can't find it right now) where the courts gave the right to "fine" a shoplifter. The idea was to provide a deterrant. The case was bought against the Hudson's Bay Co. and the court's affirmed their ability to charge the offender an amount for such a crime. I beleive the idea is reimbursement for the time of the security guard in processing.,



I find this bizarre because my understanding is that a fine is the option of the Court to "punish." However, if Scott says so I believe him!

I'm not questioning the right of the store to "charge" the person for the store's time and trouble - I am just surprised by the word "fine."

But again - I believe Scottgem and stand corrected.

Hi there, I',m from Canada and you will probably not get a fine from the store, you will probably get diversion program and have to pay restitution to Loblaws. When is your first court date, that is when you will find out if they will agree to diversion, which they most likely will however if for any reason they do not you still have time to get a lawyer before the next court date. Let us know what happens please.

This post is for all Canadian, ontario living first time offenders. Many "experts" on this help desk are far from knowledgeable in Canadian Law. I have been in this situation before and have a little bit of experience. I know I not only speak for myself when I say anyone who comes here, scared less of what they just did and feel terribly stupid and sorry and just want to find out what they can do and how the system works. {untrue shot removed-<>} Good, honest people mess up sometimes.
Here is some advice that is hopefully helpful as apposed to demeaning.
Having spoken with several lawyers, they will all tell you that they can defend you for $2500 dollars. This cost will get you a lawyer who goes to the court for you (you never have to appear) and they ask the judge for a diversion which is 90% of the time granted if you have no previous record. Along with the diversion and included in the lawyer fee (sometimes) Is a charitable donation made by "you" that doubles the amount of what you stole. The Lawyer should also submit a request to have your finger prints expunged. So if you have the money the lawyer is a good option. There are also student and less experienced lawyers available between $500 - $1200(not including charitable donation) . They can all do the same thing, but will usually need more participation on your part. Ie: letters of recommendation for schools, jobs, things that make you look like a good citizen. Now, there is also the option of representing yourself and only coming up with the charitable donation money, just show up to your court date early, get a public defender to explain you the ropes. This is more risky and more involved, but works. I hope this helps you all. This only works once though guys. Whatever reasons we have for our actions, PLEASE just learn from them and NEVER do it again!!

PS if you represent yourself DO NOT forget to send the request to have your finger prints taken off record, you can do this yourself and you do not want them to come back and haunt you.

This post is for all Canadian, ontario living first time offenders. Many "experts" on this help desk are far from knowledgeable in Canadian Law.

While I don't dispute that, I wonder about the need for saying it. Basically your advice tells people in this situation to seek a diversion. Either with or without benefit of counsel. But that's the same advice that serveral us, including non-Canadians, have given in this and similar situations. You added some good advice on the different types of representation. But other than that you repeated advice already given.

Here is some advice that is hopefully helpful as apposed to demeaning........ PLEASE just learn from them and NEVER do it again!!!!Hello squirm:

Uhhhh, I think THAT'S a little demeaning, no? People who come here want advice - not lectures.

excon

Joker123, Once you get to court, if you do not have a lawyer, go to the duty counsel office (show up early, dress nice). It is there that they will tell you whether or not you qualify for diversion. You likely will. If you do the diversion "people" will take you aside and ask you a few questions and ask you to tell them your story. They will decide how much the donation or community service will be. Likely as a first time offender you will be asked to give a charitable donation of double the amount you stole (as I mentioned before) THen you will have to wait until you are called before the judge (may take all day) if you pay the donation that day, this will be your only appearance in court and your charges will be dismissed. I wish you all the best. I am confident you and your sister will be fine.

Duty counsel and other officials will do most of the talking you just say thank you at the end

Comments on this post

squirm (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/members/squirm.html) disagrees: No its more supportive then demeaning.

First, may I call your attention to the guidelines for using the comments feature found here:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/feedback/using-comments-feature-24951.html
You've given some good advice, but you've only been here a month. Not quite enough time to try putting us down.

OK so I'm going tomorrow for fingerprints, I'm so nervous and scared about everything. squirm, should I bring cash on the court date for the fine if they give me one, to pay it right away so I don't have to reappear in court right? What do you think they will do? I'm sooo scared, does it matter that it was 2 of us, and what do I tell the duty counsel when they ask me my story? Do I just say it was a stupid mistake ? Im so scared, but I have never been in trouble with police before, I'm in university, I'm a good kid same with my sister. Do they take stuff like that into account?

We have already answered all these questions. I suggest you read back through the thread.

There is really no need to be scared. As a first offender you can get a diversion and your record will be clean.

OK so for anyone who wants to know what happened if they are in a similar situation. I got there at 930 and it was packed, I put our names on the duty counsel sheet to see the lawyer there for advice and this took all up till 12 and I still didn't get called, so I went into court. As I was sitting there, a lawyer called me to an interview room and said he noticed I had one of those small slips for shoplifting and he said he felt 'bad' for me and he went on to offer me a deal for him to represent me for like $500, and he asked about me an dmy sisters backgrounds what happened, and such. I told him I was in Uni, I work, I have never done this before, and he said it's a shame for us to be punished, and to worry during school and stuff. He then went over what he can do but in the end we declined his services. I went back into the courtroom where I waited and waited, and then out of nowhere the same lawyer went to the women with the papers and asked them to put us up the line because he was going to do his clients now and he added us in at the end, very nice of him to help us out like that, and the judge gave us the Elizabeth Fry Program. Which we then had to proceed outside to the duty counsel and talk to that lawyer. He then told us we will have to donate or do something, we have to call the diversion program place and book an appointment, he mentioned that this will inevitably be our only court visit. He then filled some papers out, and told us he may have time to go back in and finish it before lunch but then lunch came so we had to wait another 1.5 hours or so. Finally at 230 we got back into the courtroom, where we waited some more. We then got called up and the crown signed the diversion program and told us to come back in 2 months again, which confused me since the duty counsel said this will be our only time at court. So I went back to duty counsel and asked him, and he said to just go with the crown. So now me and my sis are going to call the diversion place, set up an appointment, and see what we have to do. The duty counsel lawyer said we won't get community hours, we will most likely weite a letter of apology or donate to charity a sum of $200 for both of us, and he basically said our record will be wiped. The crown didn't take too serious of us, just brushed us aside compared to to others when called up, and the duty counsel guy was very helpful in that he said its not that big a deal. Im just not happy about coming back again in 2 months since the duty counsel convinced me this would be the only court date, but what can you do, it turned out all right, I'm just glad its almost all over, pretty much is. Also the lawyer said to not pay the stores fine, he said in his years of practice he always advised people in my poisition not to pay it, it's a scam, and not one person has reported back to him saying the store sued him for it. So that's my story, very hectic and STRESSFUL day, I had to bus for 2 hrs there and back and wait in line 2 hrs not to mention the courtroom wait, but its what I got do and I did, so I believe everything will be fine now. Hope this helps people who are looking for info on this site, I know I was looking for a story like this when I got caught just to see what exactly happens, anyway, hope this helps, cheers

So everything went pretty much as we said it would. The probable reason for the return to court is for the crown to dismiss the charges assuming you have fulfilled the terms of the diversion.

I will say, if someone reads your experience to not take it as exactly what will happen to them. Each province and court is a bit different. You got stuck with a date where there was a crowded calendar.

But your point that the crown didn't take you too seriously is what we were trying to tell you. A minor shoplifting charge with a first time offense is not going to get the attention of the court. They will brush it aside for more important crimes.

Thanks for letting everyone know what happened. I think it is really helpful when people actually let others know the outcome as well as it helps others learn from the experience.

Hi There, I had a few questions for you as I am in the same situation with Loablaws. Have you gotten anything in mail from them since the lady said that she will will sending me something to sue me. Also what is the diversion program? Are you on probation... for how long? Can you travel during this time? What did you have to do to get out of this?Community hrs? Can you please help me?I am to go to court in Nov. What happens to your record - does it go clean and also your fingerprints?
Thanks for any HELP!! Please respond in the thread I started here:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/criminal-law/theft-under-5000-73-devestated-ashamed-266295.html

{Mod Note: Please don't piggyback your question on someone else's thread. Anyone wishing to repond to S1976 should follow the link to thethread he started. <>}

Hi There, I had a few questions for you as I am in the same situation with Loablaws. Have you gotten anything in mail from them since the lady said that she will will sending me something to sue me. Also what is the diversion program ?? Are you on probation ...for how long? Can you travel during this time? What did you have to do to get out of this?Community hrs? Can you please help me?I am to goto court in Nov. What happens to your record - does it go clean and also your fingerprints??
Thanks for any HELP!!!


This should be combined with the 2 other posts - same questions, different threads.

K so now my dumb sister threw out all the papers we got from court, because she didn't want my parents to find them. She said the lady at diversion told her to bring papers to the appointment for diversion, but she said she has our files. Is this going to be a problem?

Don't know, but it could be.

k so now my dumb sister threw out all the papers we got from court, because she didnt want my parents to find them. she said the lady at diversion told her to bring papers to the appointment for diversion, but she said she has our files. Is this going to be a problem?



Your arrest papers are on file with the Court. The diversion program does not have them. I would say, yes, this will be a problem.

Your arrest papers are on file with the Court. The diversion program does not have them. I would say, yes, this will be a problem.
So what should I do? Call court or div and ask, but when my sis called the div the woman said she has our file but to bring our papers anyway.

so what should i do? call court or div and ask, but when my sis called the div the woman said she has our file but to bring our papers anyways.


If she already has a copy, then I'd just go and explain your copies are destroyed. I don't see that you have any other choice.

Other people have posted that the div office didn't have the papers so apparently this person is on her toes.

If she already has a copy, then I'd just go and explain your copies are destroyed. I don't see that you have any other choice.

Other people have posted that the div office didn't have the papers so apparently this person is on her toes.

Everything is fine with the fact that I don't have the papers, I called the woman she said its OK.

Update: Today was my appointment with the lady for diversion. Me and my sis went in together. It took us 1.5 hrs to get there and 1.5 back it was brutal. Anyway, we got there waite a bit, were called into the office with the woman for diversion. She explained everything to us, the rules of the alternative measures program. She said that she will go over what we did in the report and she will ask us questions, like why we did it, what would we do differently, etc etc but before that she explained what happens if we complete the program. She said that it will be granted a stay, which means that if we complete what she says and go back to court they will have it removed, as in completely whip our record. It may take up to 1 yr max for it to be whiped, but could be 3 months, 6 months, etc but 1 yr MAX. she said that this is so that if someone does do it again in that time, they know ,etc etc. she said that the peel region police will have it on file saying we were charged always, but once we did the program, no one else will see it. No employer and such. She said we could leave the country as of now because we have not been convicted. She also mentioned to go have our finger prints removed, fill out the app right after our last court date because the cops will keep it because they don't have to destroy it. All in all she was very nice, and down to earth, she understood what we had to say. She gave us an option of either community service or 15 hrs or $100 donation + a letter of apology since we were students she wanted it to accommodate us as we may not have enough money we can choose service or if we don't have time just pay the donation. She also mentioned that the letter the store sends DO NOT PAY because they just do this to scare you and never go into it in depth as it does cost them money to hire lawyers to write the letters, etc etc and if you don't pay it 99% they won't take you to court and if they do its just to sue you, no criminal charge or anything. All in all, it was very accommodating so bottom line is we do the letter and donation, report back to her in like 2 weeks show her we did it, she sends it to court, we return to court once more, and its all done. It was not bad at all, I'm just lucky we don't live in the US which she explained to us is MUCH stricter. Anyway that's my story, I just wanted to keep updating for people who are in this situation, I know how stressful it was for me. Cheers

Thanks for the update, but that is pretty much what we told you would happen from the very beginning. The info about not paying the fine that the store imposes is interesting though.

Thank God you and your sis made it. I am so stressed out. So how long did it take for you to go to the Diverion lady after your court date i.e. . I am just trying to calculate the whole time line?So you have to go to court in 2 weeks time now after you have done your diversion program? Thanks for all your help & input.

Thank God you and your sis made it. I am so stressed out. So how long did it take for you to goto the Diverion lady after your court date ie . I am just trying to calculate the whole time line?So you have to goto court in 2 weeks time now after you have done your diversion program? Thanks for all your help & input.

I know how you feel man, it killed me all the waiting and stuff, and I know people say it'll be all right and tonnes of peiople have gone through it and say its nothing, but still, the worry kills. But you, after your first court date, they tell you to call the woman and schedule the appointment when you can, she is very very flexible, at least mine was and she said its cool if you can't make it last second to just call her to rebook it, even when I went some guy was late and she said she'll rechedule for him. So you do that, then go to diversion, 30 min interview then she asks you when you can come back, again you totally choose when to come back, flexible. Then you complete it by that date, come back, she sees that you did your duties, you go back to court and its all done. And my court date was first week October, div was yesterday, I have to come back 4th November, court 8th. That's it

Thanks for the update, but that is pretty much what we told you would happen from the very beginning. The info about not paying the fine that the store imposes is interesting though.

Well, yea it is pretty much what you said, but some people were more pessimistic, and stressed to the max how I need to get a lawyer even thought most people said no, so there was a lot of stress, but its all done now so whatever.

Also I have another question, the woman said my court date is on the 8th of November at 9 which is a Saturday. Re courts open on Saturday, I can't find the hours for this courthouse anywhere :S

Call her back and ask.

Hi Again, So your whole ordeal took 2 months I guess. You are in Peel area- Mississauga area i.e.. How long did it take for you to book an appt with the Diversion lady?After your court date i.e. when you called her. So are you on probation till the whole charge gets dropped? What happens after your next court date?
Thanks for all your help.

Hi Again, So your whole ordeal took 2 months i guess. You are in Peel area- Mississauga area ie. How long did it take for you to book an appt with the Diversion lady?After your court date ie when you called her. So are you on probation till the whole charge gets dropped?? What happens after your next court date?
Thanks for all your help.

I called her like a week and a half after my court date, you can call whenever but the sooner the better. And no, no probation, nothing like that, I can do whatever I want, no restrictions, I have not been convicted, nothing, no need for probation for a minor offense like this. Its just a matter of completing a letter, and doing a donation. That is all. Honestly man I know you've probably heard this a million times, but don't worry, and I know I could not stop worrying even after hearing people say not to, but take my word on it, if its your first offense, with clean record, you have absolutely nothing to worry about, I regret worrying so much now, my worrying ruined my 2 months. And you I'm in the peel area

OK, so a letter came in the mail today, surprisingly only one for me none for my sister which is weird, and my dad saw it, and is so devastated as am I it just kills me. I don't know what to do, to pay or not, the lady from diversion said no and lawyers said no, but its for 315 dollars not 512 I don't know what to do. Help

Listen to the advice you got.

So I was granted a 'stay' as I completed the e.fry program. I have one question, if I do a criminal records search for a job or whatnot, will anything come up? No right? Only police in depth search? I'm asking this because I'm getting a job at a bank and I'm assuming they get you to do a crim check. Anyone ? And I've read the past tread about a 'stay' but didn't have much info. Thanks

I know it takes 1 year for them to destroy the fingerprinting but that's not totally destroyed. The employer can't see that but the police always will. Also did you pay the money to loblaws for there civil settlement? How much did they send you ? Thanks again and all the best with your job.

I believe this has been answered before. No conviction, no criminal record.

I know it takes 1 year for them to destroy the fingerprinting but thats not totally destroyed. The employer can't see that but the police always will. Also did you pay the money to loblaws for there civil settlement? How much did they send you ? Thanks again and all the best with your job.

Oh OK, makes sense, and you they sent me $315 about 3 weeks ago this Monday and it said if I don't may within 15 days sblah blah, never did anything, nothings happened yet, andmy sis didn't get a fine which is weird, I only got one :S, but all in all, I'm through with this stuff and I'm happy

Learn any lesson from this?

Learn any lesson from this?

Have u not read my posts on this thread?

have u not read my posts on this thread?


Yes, that's why the question was asked.

Yes, that's why the question was asked.

Obviously I have learned a lot, if you READ my past posts on this thread you will see that I have stated several times that I've learned my lesson and will never do it again. I am still unsure of the fact that its been 'stayed' or 'expunged', as I have a job interview soon they may ask for a crim record check if I was to do one now, what will show up? Nothing? Or will it say its stayed? If it says its been stayed it might as well say I was convicted

Hi There,So your court date is done right - what did they say this time? Did the Duty Council give you the date or was the diversion lady who gave it? Did the Crown say anything else on your court date?With regards to the Fee for $300 , shd one pay or not?I don't want to get dragged into more suits/courts & all. :(!!

First of all the date was given on my first visit to court, which I was given a diversion date, here a diversion was set up, I completed it, reported back to diversion, and then my final court date was the one appointed on the first court date and the crown said you completed diversion, thank you, bye that's it. I haven't paid the fee, don't plan to, nothing else has been sent. Now anyone have an answer to my crim record search question? What exactly can I expect for to be written on that document when I get it in the mail for criminal search?

Hi, JKT , what do you disagree about in my statement above? I've noticed that your posts are primarily negative, there is no need for that. Lighten up, I have indeed shown remorse and will never do anything like this before, ever. Its taught me to value things in life more and I have learned a lot

Hi, JKT , what do you disagree about in my statement above?? i've noticed that your posts are primarily negative, there is no need for that. Lighten up, i have indeed shown remorse and will never do anything like this before, ever. Its taught me to value things in life more and i have learned alot


"I havent paid the fee, dont plan to"

"I havent paid the fee, dont plan to"

Um, yes , I have not paid the fee sent to me by the store, the very same fee I believe you along with everyone on this forum, along with the lawyers I spoke to told me not to pay. That's the fee I'm talking about, and yes I don't plan on paying it. I think you may be mixed up with the fee given to me by diversion, the donation, because I don't understand why you are labelling me as wrong unless you thought I didn't donate, which if you actually read my posts, I did.

Um, yes , i have not paid the fee sent to me by the store, the very same fee i believe you along with everyone on this forum, along with the lawyers i spoke to told me not to pay. Thats the fee im talking about, and yes i dont plan on paying it. I think you may be mixed up with the fee given to me by diversion, the donation, because I dont understand why you are labelling me as wrong unless you thought i didnt donate, which if you actually read my posts, i did.


I never said not to pay the bill from the store. I OWN a store so, believe me, that's the LAST thing I would have said.