Is it really true that the Catholic churches are now being instructed to ommit the divine name from all forms of service? If so, why? Does this also mean that any glass mossaics etc featuring YAHWEH will be replaced? Call me curious...

Where are you getting that information from ?

Never heard that.

Really? Maybe Chuck knows. My friend got an email about it. Apparently all the bishops etc are receiving or have received notice of it. Hope I didn't let the cat out of the bag.:confused:

Sounds like one of those urban legends emails.

Nor me, haven't heard that. But if that was so... why only catholic? Perhaps one of these misleading forwarded mails...

Pure bull, I will be rude for a moment, do you really believe this stuff or are you merely posting hate filled comments about the catholic church merely to make some people consider it as real?

The early church, even Jesus would have not wrote the name of God, so it is actually bibical to do so if they did. Jesus hisself would have never written out God's name, it was considered to sacred to do so, that is why the vowels of God's name was not written in the Old Testment writings in the original texts.

Pure bull, I will be rude for a moment, do you really beleive this stuff or are you merely posting hate filled comments about the catholic church merely to make some people consider it as real ??

The early church, even Jesus would have not wrote the name of God, so it is actually bibical to do so if they did. Jesus hisself would have never written out God's name, it was considered to sacred to do so, that is why the vowels of God's name was not written in the Old Testment writings in the orginal texts.

Excuse me but since when was I making hate comments?? I was asking a fair question - or so I thought. I don't personally know any Catholic bigwigs so I thought I would bring my question to a place where I know there are some who know a lot about Catholic teachings. All you need to do is say true or false! Obviously it's false so thank you. I don't take fw'd emails as hearsay but I did find something on the net about it so thought I'd enquire a bit further... ok? Peace man!

BTW it is evident that Jesus did use God's name openly, just one example Luke 4:16-21. If he made God's name known to men then he would have not have expected it to be excluded from writings, or would he?
In the mid-20th century some old fragments of the Greek Septuagint existing in Jesus day were discovered containing the divine name, written in Hebrew form. This tells me that the first century christians were quite comfortable using God's name.

the vowels of God's name was not written in the Old Testment writings in the original texts.

Oh and I forgot to add - God's name appears at least 7,000 times in the original OT manuscripts.

Can you post the email here?

It was actually my friend who received the email, but they printed it out and read it to me. It sounded very "official" you might say, certainly not slanderous. If I can get a copy of it I will post it up... then again, I don't want to push the issue any more as most seem to think it's probably a bogus email anyway. Might start up an interesting thread topic though... what do you reckon? ;)

Bogus emails are not worth the time. Delete and move on.

Oh and I forgot to add - God's name appears at least 7,000 times in the original OT manuscripts.

It was said that they left out the vowels? So does that mean God is referred to as GD ?
I haven't seen that.

Heehee, that's quite amusing Cozyk. Ok, are you ready?.

The divine name in Hebrew was YHWH (also referred to as the tetragrammaton-meaning 'having four letters') which nowadays is generally pronounced either Yahweh or Jehovah.

The exact pronunciation used by the Hebrews is unknown today, but the name Yahweh is a transliteration while Jehovah is a translation.

At some stage in history the Jews substituted the tetragrammaton for Adhonai (Sovereign Lord) or Elohim (God) most likely because of superstition but no one knows for sure.

Later copies of the Greek Septuagint also followed this trend of substituting God's name for Kyrios (Lord) and Theos (God) but earlier copies of the Septuagint did have the tetragrammaton in them.

So it appears that Israelites, early Jews and the like knew and used God's name regularly. Things appear a lot different today in that most religions try and steer away from using the divine name regularly, so I guess you could say, it is more likely to hear someone these days call him GD rather than YHWH. ;)

I know you didn't ask for an essay but hey!. I've got some time on my hands tonight. :)

God's name appears at least 7,000 times in the original OT manuscripts.

Sorry this should say, nearly 7,000 times.

Is it really true that the Catholic churches are now being instructed to ommit the divine name from all forms of service?
No, it is not true.

If this were true, common sense would dictate that the Holy Father would lead by example... and this has not been the case:


Papal Summer Residence, Castel Gandolfo
Sunday, 24 August 2008

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

This Sunday's liturgy addresses to us Christians but also at the same time to every man and every woman the double question that one day Jesus put to his disciples. He first asked them: "Who do men say that the Son of man is?". They answered him saying that some of the people said John the Baptist restored to life, others Elijah, Jeremiah or one of the prophets. The Lord then directly questioned the Twelve: "But who do you say that I am?". Peter spoke enthusiastically and authoritatively on behalf of them all: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God". This solemn profession of faith the Church continues to repeat since then. Today too, we long to proclaim with an innermost conviction: "Yes, Jesus, you are the Christ, the Son of the living God!". Let us do so in the awareness that Christ is the true "treasure" for whom it is worth sacrificing everything; he is the friend who never abandons us for he knows the most intimate expectations of our hearts. Jesus is the "Son of the living God", the promised Messiah who came down to earth to offer humanity salvation and to satisfy the thirst for life and love that dwells in every human being. What an advantage humanity would have in welcoming this proclamation which brings with it joy and peace!

Full Text (http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/angelus/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_ang_20080824_en.html)

Is it really true that the Catholic churches are now being instructed to ommit the divine name from all forms of service? If so, why? Does this also mean that any glass mossaics etc featuring YAHWEH will be replaced? Call me curious...

Yes, it does appear to be true. Here is a news release from a Roman Catholic source regarding this decree by the pope.

Holy See Stops Use of 'Yahweh' in Catholic Worship - Catholic Online (http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=28949)

The news comes from Catholic On-Line who got it from the Catholic Information Service for Africa. Here is an excerpt:

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"By directive of the Holy Father, in accord with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, this congregation ... deems it convenient to communicate to the bishops' conferences ... as regards the translation and the pronunciation, in a liturgical setting, of the divine name signified in the sacred Tetragrammaton," said the letter signed by Cardinal Francis Arinze and Archbishop Malcolm Ranjith, congregation prefect and secretary, respectively.
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The article goes on to say:

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"As an expression of the infinite greatness and majesty of God, it was held to be unpronounceable and hence was replaced during the reading of sacred Scripture by means of the use of an alternate name: 'Adonai,' which means 'Lord,'" the Vatican letter said. Similarly, Greek translations of the Bible used the word "Kyrios" and Latin scholars translated it to "Dominus"; both also mean Lord.

"Avoiding pronouncing the Tetragrammaton of the name of God on the part of the church has therefore its own grounds," the letter said. "Apart from a motive of a purely philological order, there is also that of remaining faithful to the church's tradition, from the beginning, that the sacred Tetragrammaton was never pronounced in the Christian context nor translated into any of the languages into which the Bible was translated."
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This does not appear to affect the name in print, therefore I would not anticipate it affecting Bibles issued by the Roman Catholic church or glass mosaics.

It was said that they left out the vowels? So does that mean God is referred to as GD ?
I haven't seen that.

If you see documents written by Jews or Messianic Jews, God is often written as G_d. Some folk in the hyper-charismatic movement are also adopting this approach. When Jews are speaking and sometimes in writing they will refer to God as "HaShem" which means "the name".

Exactly Jews use Y_H_W_H or G_D
I usually do that when I am talking to Jews on the internet for respect.

I see nothing wrong with going to that other than the expense it would be to change everything over.

exactly Jews use Y_H_W_H or G_D
I usually do that when I am talking to Jews on the internet for respect.

I see nothing wrong with going to that other than the expense it would be to change everything over.

Agreed. There is no requirement to do it, but if we are witnessing to Jews or speaking with Messianic Jews, then it is appropriate to do so out of respect.

Excuse me but since when was I making hate comments???? I was asking a fair question - or so I thought. I don't personally know any Catholic bigwigs so I thought I would bring my question to a place where I know there are some who know a lot about Catholic teachings. All you need to do is say true or false! Obviously it's false so thankyou. I don't take fw'd emails as hearsay but I did find something on the net about it so thought I'd enquire a bit further....ok? Peace man!

BTW it is evident that Jesus did use God's name openly, just one example Luke 4:16-21. If he made God's name known to men then he would have not have expected it to be excluded from writings, or would he?
In the mid-20th century some old fragments of the Greek Septuagint existing in Jesus day were discovered containing the divine name, written in Hebrew form. This tells me that the first century christians were quite comfortable using God's name.Actually Mopar, what you heard is true. I searched for the info and found this: CNS STORY: No 'Yahweh' in songs, prayers at Catholic Masses, Vatican rules (http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0804119.htm)

Actually Mopar, what you heard is true. I searched for the info and found this: CNS STORY: No 'Yahweh' in songs, prayers at Catholic Masses, Vatican rules (http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0804119.htm)

Which means what to you?

I find that hard to accept.
The bible even instructs priest to "bless the people in My Name"
As far as I can tell very early Christians used God's name.
When I pray I sometimes use God's name when calling upon Him.
If God did not want us to use His Name why did He provide it for us and tell us to use it?
This is a very mysterious ruling for me.
I find it troubling.
Fred

I find that hard to accept.
The bible even instructs priest to "bless the people in My Name"
As far as I can tell very early Christians used God's name.
When I pray I sometimes use God's name when calling upon Him.
If God did not want us to use His Name why did He provide it for us and tell us to use it?
This is a very mysterious ruling for me.
I find it troubling.
Fred

Fred:

Well it is true. But, it’s a lot less than most non-Catholics would make of it.
The Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments issued a letter on June 29, 2008 in which it stated that certain rules should be followed with regard to the use of the tetragrammaton (YHWH)


In the light of what has been expounded, the following directives are to be observed:


1) In liturgical celebrations, in songs and prayers the name of God in the form of the tetragrammaton YHWH is neither to be used or pronounced.
2) For the translation of the Biblical text in modern languages, destined for the liturgical usage of the Church, what is already prescribed by n. 41 of the Instruction Uturgiam authenticam is to be followed; that is, the divine tetragrammaton is to be rendered by the equivalent of AdonatI Kyrios. "Lord", "Signore", "Seigneur", "Herr", "Señor", etc.
3) In translating, in the liturgical context, texts in which are present, one after the other, either the Hebrew term Adonai or the tetragrammaton YHWH, Adonai is to be translated "Lord" and the form "God" is to be used for the tetragrammaton YHWH, similar to what happens in the Greek translation of the Septuaglnt and in the Latin translation of the Vulgate. Volume XLIV August 2008 (http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:xomOJB6HK0kJ:www.usccb.org/liturgy/innews/August2008.pdf+tetragrammaton+site:usccb.org/&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

If you’ll notice the directive is very limited and only affects current missal translations and some liturgical music. So, where's the big deal? Not only that but it's nearly two years old!


JoeT

JoeT,
Good Point!
Thanks,
Fred

The name of YHWH (Yahuwah) is pronounceable. Saying the name of YHWH was banned by Rabbi's sometime before the Jewish exiles returned back to their land after the Babylonian exile. (Isaiah 42:8) "I am the Lord, that is my name"! ??? The Lord is his name?? IT should read I am YHWH, That is MY Name".
Lord is a pagan title and can be translated baal. There is not 1 scripture forbidding the use of YHWH's name, only approx. 7000 places where it has been removed by men and replaced with confusing titles like God and Lord. Put YHWH back into the place of Lord and you will find that your scriptures come alive with meaning.
YHWH stood in the tent door in the heat of the day and visited with Abraham. That was YHWH the Son or (messenger of YHWH - Angel of the Lord) but still very much YHWH who is ONE = (echad) echad means one with compound unity.
Anybody removing the true name of YHWH from usage is breaking the 3rd commandment if done intentionally. All of the false gods are named in scripture, only the true God or Elohim who is YHWH, his name is hidden behind a title. Hear O' Yisrael, YHWH is our Elohim, YHWH is echad (ONE). Here is just one of many short studies about the name being banned. It has been one of the greatest blessings for me to have learned this after 35 years and I not only know His name now but I use it. http://scripturaltruth101.blogspot.com/2011/02/ban-on-name-of-yhwh.html

@mayeeden. This is an old thread from 2008.

Hello everybody,

YHWH is a tetragrammaton. When I studied this subject a few years ago (about 10) I found a tetragrammaton is a four letter word taking the place of God's name, not the name of God. There are many names of our God that men have given God, a lot of the names have vowels around the tetragrammaton (YHWH) so it can be pronounced. A lot of the names describe what our God is. His real name also is what He is.