Reported corporal punishments on US schools.

It seems to happen to around 250.000 children at US schools every year.
"Human Rights Watch" and the "American Civil Liberties Union" say that this mainly happens in the Southern States (C.P. is allowed in 21 States).

In Europe and in some 100 other countries worldwide corporal punishment is a no-no.
And worse for the USA : there also seems to be a relation with race : black children are punished much more often than white children.
Although parents can sign a form indicating that they do not approve corporal punishment, this does not seem to have much effect...

Isn't it time to send development workers to the Southern States to educate there, and raise the levels of ethical and moral thinking??

:rolleyes:

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I do not see the benefit of allowing corporal punishment in schools. If done publiclly it is an attempt at humiliation. Allowing it just feeds into this crazy notion that teaching is a substitute for parenting . I do not think anything that enables the nanny-state is a good thing.

I do not see the benefit of allowing corporal punishment in schools.
I was not referring to benefits. I was referring to harming children.
But I agree with you on this : teaching is not a substitute for parenting!!

:rolleyes:

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Lack of discipline in school is 'epidemic'; I can recall a sixth grade teacher taking an offending student in the hall for 'instant' redress; there was no question about who was in control. Albert Einstein couldn't teach in American schools today because he isn't 'certified', which means, he hasn't taken an 'education' curriculum that trains him to place education within the skull of a disinterested student who is unaware of what is going on. If you haven't seen it, watch the HBO documentary, Hard Times at Douglass High. Are you willing to step into a classroom like those?

For once I agree with George. Call me hypocrite but although I'm against the heinous death penalty enforced in some states in your country, I'm not necessarily against harsher punishments / discipline at school. Whether that means corporal punishment or not I simply don't know. But the lack of respect for teachers is absolutely disgusting. Teachers need to have the power to teach these children respect. And how the teaching manual says it should be done simply doesn't work!

... But the lack of respect for teachers is absolutely disgusting ...
Tell me about it ! I lived as an expatriate for over 30 years in various countries. Always had my children on International schools. When we lived in Guatemala, there was only an American International School. What a total mess was that in relation to what we were used to with British International Schools.
We were used to discipline being normal at schools, but not there. A total mess it was. And I am talking here about the 1980's ! So it seems nothing new.

But does that not show something is wrong with the US society at large, as on all other (British) International Schools this lack-of-discipline problem never occurred at all?
Isn't the real question than : What causes that total lack of discipline and respect in the US?

And also - for this topic - do you really think that corporal punishment at schools can solve that problem, or is the real cause not the children, but the US society in general?
If I see an American movie I see almost every time lot's of different sorts of violence, drugs consumption, and sex. And that "ad nauseum"...

Just see one single US police series : mainly car chases, shooting, explosions, misbehaving, and violence. Than see a Bristish police series (like Frost) : a good exciting plot, even sometimes humor, but no or hardly any violence.

Children behave like they see others behave. Around them, and on TV or in movies.
So why is general child behavior in the US and Europe so spectacular different?

:rolleyes:

More likely time to start spanking kids in more schools, who cares what Europe does, they have their own messes and are not a role model for anything I want our country to become.

It is a shame anyone ever stopped using spanking

Personally, I will allow NO ONE to spank my child except for myself of my husband.

In the first place I am not an advocate of physical abuse. Out of 4 children I have only spanked one. I guess I am the exception to the rule. I AM the parent. I make the rules and my children follow them. Now, don't get me wrong, I am also my children's best friend. I know how to separate friendship from parenthood and my children know their boundaries.

If my child misbehaves at school to the point of a "paddling" I require that I be present at such "paddling." In 23 years, it's never happened.

It's such a shame that our society has digressed to the point of the educators being the disciplinarians.

Tell that to a teacher who is spit on, or pushed in the hall, today, The inner city schools are one of the most scariest places I have ever walked, and I have worked the wost prisons in the US. Several of the inner city schools had me more scared than any of them ever did. There is no respect, no disipline what so ever.

And of course spankingis not phscial abuse in my opinion, all my kids had a strict rule, you get spanked at school, you get another one when you get home.

It has to happen because parents don't do their jobs at home any longer

And of course spankingis not phscial abuse in my opinion, all my kids had a strict rule, you get spanked at school, you get another one when you get home.



I had the same rule applied to me. And it worked. I played up at times but generally I had the same respect for my teachers as I did my parents. Some of the other kids though were a different story. And generally they were the kids whose parents lacked discipline at home. I'm with you on this one chuck. I'm not a parent but I can tell you right now I will spank my child whether his mother likes it or not!

And also - for this topic - do you really think that corporal punishment at schools can solve that problem, or is the real cause not the children, but the US society in general?
If I see an American movie I see almost every time lot's of different sorts of violence, drugs consumption, and sex. And that "ad nauseum" ...

Just see one single US police series : mainly car chases, shooting, explosions, misbehaving, and violence. Than see a Bristish police series (like Frost) : a good exciting plot, even sometimes humor, but no or hardly any violence.

Children behave like they see others behave. Around them, and on TV or in movies.
So why is general child behavior in the US and Europe so spectacular different?

:rolleyes:

You make a very valid point. Although Europe certainly isn't the answer to the worlds problems I will agree that US television programs in general are getting more violent and graphic every day.

I can't really comment on the difference in behaviour between the US and Europe (im from down under). Ill agree Europe does seem slightly less violent however its certainly not a model society (see gang violence in Eastern Europe in particular).

Although the gun culture in the US in my opinion is one of its more disgraceful failures. But I have had that debate before. It's a different culture to the one I have grown up in and as I have learnt via the attitude of the Americans here it will not be changing anytime soon.

P.S. I love British television (series like Frost, The Bill [older episodes] etc. are quality shows in comparison to what the States generally throws up. Just my opinion.)

Skell- Occasionally on the BBC ( LV Cox cable) I'll watch reruns of Gordon Ramsey old cooking shows. They are classic. The guy is not only a great chef, but has a great business mind. His technique can be applied to any start up business adventure. He has a show now in the US called "Hell's Kitchen" but it lost a lot of it's zip. Anybody wondering who Gordon is, here's a link... Gordon Ramsay Home Page - Fine Dining in London (http://www.gordonramsay.com/)

PS. In the US, I'm a strong proponent of home schooling over the average large city public school systems.

I can't really comment on the difference in behaviour between the US and Europe (im from down under).
Well, I didn't mean to suggest there is no violence or misbehaving here. We have soccer holigans. But that type of misbehaving is not spread through and through the entire spectrum of society.

Remains my question if the solution to children's misbehavior at schools is corporal punishment, or that it has to some from change deep within the structure of society.

:)

In the US, I'm a strong proponent of home schooling over the average large city public school systems.
The reality of the US society in general seems one parent families where the parent has to work all day and/or both parents who both have to work all day, leaving the control and education of children to others.
Parents who have no time to control their children have even less time to teach/school them.
And the increasing credit debt forces more and more people into longer working.
So -although you may be able to do so - what is the realistic solution to the problem of misbehaving children?
What is the real cause of this all? Overconsumption? A system gone round the twist morally or financially?
In view of the reality "a nation of the free" can't exactly be the proper description for the US society.

:)

Alternatives are home schooling, private schools, and students that qualified for magnet schools. My view concerning US American society is that there are way too many distractions and the children are not focused. Of course, in addition, as you mentioned, there are multiple factors that start with the home environment that can prime children for failure before they attend any school, but especially the public school systems here in the states.

I agree with Bobby. Seems like in the US everyone is in agreement that government is the problem ,but too many think the remedy is more ;and bigger of the same is the solution.

The reason that there is discipline problems is not with the teachers and if they can administer corporal punishment or not . It is that making babies is not just a physical exercise ;it is a real responsibility that parents should be held to . Also there is this PC cr*p that is enabled by the government that says that parents should not use physical discipline as a tool . But a teacher?? keep your hands off my kid .

The reality of the US society in general seems one parent families where the parent has to work all day and/or both parents who both have to work all day, leaving the control and education of children to others.
Parents who have no time to control their children have even less time to teach/school them.
And the increasing credit debt forces more and more people into longer working.
So -although you may be able to do so - what is the realistic solution to the problem of misbehaving children?
What is the real cause of this all? Overconsumption? A system gone round the twist morally or financially?
In view of the reality "a nation of the free" can't exactly be the proper description for the US society.

:)

Cred, if women just knew their place in society (he says while ducking) moms might be at home raising their children. :) Seriously though, isn't it true that with the rise of feminism, secularism and consumerism also came the rise of two-earner and single parent families? This push, the demise of the family and traditional values, and this is a big one - the drive to empower children (think Planned Parenthood) and erode parental rights - all contribute to the problem. Add a bunch of pantywaist liberal 'educators' afraid to damage a child's psyche by using red pencils, giving grades or keeping score and you get public schools in America. But this is the path to an enlightened society don't you know?

If you ask me, this is exactly what the left in this country has fought for all these years and it's an absolute failure. But that's just my biased opinion ;)

... isn't it true that with the rise of feminism, secularism and consumerism also came the rise of two-earner and single parent families?
I don't think so. There is much more to it. I guess it is commercialization, marketing, and credit cards that hoked people into depth and into the need for both partners having to work and often that in double jobs to pay the monthly bills.

:)

Skell- Occasionally on the BBC ( LV Cox cable) I'll watch reruns of Gordon Ramsey old cooking shows. They are classic. The guy is not only a great chef, but has a great business mind. His technique can be applied to any start up business adventure. He has a show now in the US called "Hell's Kitchen" but it lost a lot of it's zip. Anybody wondering who Gordon is, here's a link... Gordon Ramsay Home Page - Fine Dining in London (http://www.gordonramsay.com/)

PS. In the US, I'm a strong proponent of home schooling over the average large city public school systems.

Gordan Ramsey is huge in Australia. I'm talking on every night of the week with each of his different series. A good business man indeed.

When you remove the moral foundation from society, the result is what you see, in the breakup of the family, no discipline in the school, no respect for authority of any kind. Moral anarchy, if you please. There must be some inner value directing the human life, or man becomes a mis-guided missile for his own destruction.
You will go a long way before you find a basis for that foundation that equals the one found in the Bible, but the Church has become saltless, and is therefore walked on, and society is without chart or compass. (I'll sure hear about this comment!)

When you remove the moral foundation from society, the result is what you see, in the breakup of the family,Doesn't the family model precede civilization and religion? I agree with the others that the problem is consumerism and the drive to appear wealthy. We have have much less of that here in Canada. My kids have never heard of the bible yet they are great respectful children - it's about the parents not the book.

...it's about the parents not the book.
Of course that is so. Even the reason or cause for increased financial income is related to the habits, behavior, and even responsibility of parents.
But it is the capitalistic system that turned them into mental zombies on their way to the next shopping mall...

:)

Of course that is so. Even the reason or cause for increased financial income is related to the habits, behavior, and even responsibility of parents.
But it is the capitalistic system that turned them into mental zombies on their way to the next shopping mall ...

:)
Are you showing your true colors? It is soooo easy to bash capitalism and the profit motive when you have a fat bank account and a good position, but you digress from your own op.

Of course that is so. Even the reason or cause for increased financial income is related to the habits, behavior, and even responsibility of parents.
But it is the capitalistic system that turned them into mental zombies on their way to the next shopping mall ...

:)


Or maybe it is this mentality that education is a government right provided for "free" [ via taxpayors].

There is a different mentality when you/parent[s] want an education and pay for it versus going to public school, where a greater percentage of the student body is not as serious about education.

No, I do not agree with teachers doleing out corporal punishment, writing a dictionary page and a phone call to an involved parent[s] should be enough.

Are you showing your true colors? It is soooo easy to bash capitalism and the profit motive when you have a fat bank account and a good position, but you digress from your own op.
All I possess is the result of my own hard work and actions. All legal. I have always wondered about capitalism. Capitalism is the best present system to incite people to work for their daily bread. No problem at all with that. But it is also a system that is the hardest for the poor, the sick, and the needy. Give me the West European social democracy and guided capitalistic system of sharing and protecting the poor above the US version of "grabbing-whatever-you-can" any time.

:rolleyes:

Or maybe it is this mentality that education is a government right provided for "free"
What has "who pays for what" to do with corporal punishment?


No, I do not agree with teachers doleing out corporal punishment, writing a dictionary page and a phone call to an involved parent[s] should be enough.
At least we agree on that ! But what if that note or that call is not enough? What than? What other options are open but corporal punishment?

:)

...
No, I do not agree with teachers doleing out corporal punishment, writing a dictionary page and a phone call to an involved parent[s] should be enough.
Public schools aren't Sunday schools; what is the teacher to do when the 'student' looks back and says, "I'm not doing that." Oh yeah, go back for re-certification.