:confused: Why do so called "atheists" devote countless hours and energy to attempting to disprove and demean religion on "religious" forums? What is their motive behind vehemently deconstructing the Christian faith in particular and propagating their own lack of faith?
Could it be that they are doing the very thing they claim to hate in religious zealots by persuading others to their viewpoint? Also, why do many of them come across as arrogant and angry with the rest of us who don't share their views?

The interesting thing is that most atheists here would and have likened theism to believing in the "Bogeyman". So I can't help but wonder why one would spend so much time and energy on something they find as ridiculous as a belief in the bogeyman.
So if religion to atheists is a good as belief in Unicorns and fairy tales, then why spend so much of your free time on it...
I do not believe in the existence of unicorns, and I don't spend a lot of time trying to deny their existence or even thinking about them because it would counter-productive.
I got to wondering: just why do atheists spend so much time thinking about God, even if it is in the form of denial?

Could it be that they are hoping someone will engage them in discussion and make a good enough argument that would dissuade them from their atheism, because deep down, they know on a subconscious level that what they are espousing is not truth.
I don’t know.. that’s just my theory anyway.. But I find it quite perplexing... and ironic.
What’s really ironic is when an atheists tells me I am trying to shove my beliefs down their throats... wait a minute here….. I am on a religious forum and you came on this forum voluntarily so how am I shoving my beliefs on you? If anyone is "evangelizing" it you the atheist. :cool:

So please any atheists out there please let me know why you have dedicated time and energy to something you deem non -existent.

Just interested to know...

Yeah I wonder just how popular the flying unicorn toaster religion board would go over?

Christianity in America has become a political party engaged in such nasty organized behavior that has to be opposed openly and forcefully by decent Americans.

So please any atheists out there please let me know why you have dedicated time and energy to something you deem non -existent.

Religion is not non-existent...

Personally - I'm interested in defending science and evidential inquiry when it is attacked, which often happens in these discussions - hence I keep an eye on it.

I'm also very interested in religion - it's a very intriguing human condition, don't you think? It's something that I don't understand and am eager to learn more about.

I hope this helps.

Not all Christians are into the political mess or even the organized mess that religions have made of it. But it gets bashed openly and forcefully even at the decent Christians.

Christianity in America has become a political party engaged in such nasty organized behavior that has to be opposed openly and forcefully by decent Americans.

So you think by coming on a religious forum to harass Christians you are doing some kind of service to society?
Lol... how is that working for you?


[QUOTE=Capuchin]Religion is not non-existent...

Niether are people who believe in unicorns and aliens etc, but I don't see anyone dedicating their life's free time to disproving them on online forums.


Personally - I'm interested in defending science and evidential inquiry when it is attacked, which often happens in these discussions - hence I keep an eye on it.


I'm also very interested in religion - it's a very intriguing human condition, don't you think? It's something that I don't understand and am eager to learn more about.

I hope this helps.

If it was a case where athiests come on these forums to learn about religion as a general interest that would be different, however most athiests, it seems, are here to demean religion in an effort to propagate and promote their own beliefs. So are they not as guilty as the "religious zealots" they claim to hate for pushing their beliefs on others? I see it as a for of evangelism.

This isn't a Christian forum, Einstein. :D

I consider it my *duty and pleasure* to talk rationality and hope against the misled Christians who engage in all manner of political agendas and use lying as a political tactic... activities that are harmful to the citizens of America and to America itself.

It is my *job* while retired.

Have a great weekend,

[QUOTE=Choux]This isn't a Christian forum, Einstein.

I never said it was.. you are the one who made a comment about Christians in particular.. so I addressed that. It is a religious forum and you claim to be an atheist yet you are here day in day out promoting your atheistic beliefs.


I consider it my *duty and pleasure* to talk rationality and hope against the misled Christians who engage in all manner of political agendas and use lying as a political tactic... activities that are harmful to the citizens of America and to America itself.

These are your opnions, not facts. Almost 80% of Americans are Christians and the Nation was founded by Christians so I think you might be living in the wrong country if you have that much hatred for Christians.
You are obviously on the wrong forum too because I doubt any of the Christians on this site are actuall politians so your message is not going to be heard by the people you want to hear it. So you are pretty much wasting your time.


It is my *job* while retired.

I think you should find more enjoyable ways to spend your retirement years than harassing people about their beliefs and trying to promote your own.

P.S. what is with retirees these days..? What happened to sailing around the world, living on tropical islands, playing golf, spending time with grandchildren etc. You know, retirement! It just seems all people like you (and Cred.. retirees) do now is harass people online about one thing or another. If I had a short time left to live I would be on a sail boat somewhere seeing the world and living life to the fullest. :confused:

I'll be honest... One reason I participate in these forums, is the same reason I sometimes read the paranormal forums where people talk about ghosts and shadow people. Morbid curiosity, I guess.

I suspect it's why people tune into Jerry Springer, or can't take their eyes off a train wreck. But for me, there is also another reason...

I really want to help people who are on the fence. I feel strongly about education in our schools and if someone honestly doesn't understand how Noah's Ark could have happened or whether evolution (MACRO!) is true, I want to help answer these questions with legitimate information. I do this despite the efforts of certain moderators to shut down a thread any time too much sense is being made.

If i had a short time left to live i would be on a sail boat somewhere seeing the world and living life to the fullest. :confused:

How do you know how much time you have left? Get to sailing NOW Sass! Seriously, don't wait to do what you want in life. Cred might outlive all of us. You never know...

Hello Sassy:

Aren't you the one who keeps on saying that secular humanism is a religion?? I think you are. So, which way is it?

excon

Why do so called "atheists" devote countless hours and energy to attempting to disprove and demean religion on "religious" forums?
I do not see any "atheists devote countless hours and energy to attempting to disprove and demean religion on religious forums"!
All I see are (some) Secular Humanists respectfully pointing out that theists only "BELIEVE" what they claim to be "true".


What is their motive behind vehemently deconstructing the Christian faith in particular and propagating their own lack of faith?
I do not see anyone "vehemently deconstructing the Christian faith in particular".
All I see are (some) Secular Humanists respectfully pointing out that theists only "BELIEVE" what they claim to be "true".

I do neither see any Secular Humanist propagating their own lack of faith, as all that Secular Humanists do here is respectfully pointing out that theists only "BELIEVE" what they claim to be "truth", and participate in discussions on religious subjects.

And consider this also : isn't that precisely the idea of this board ? COMMUNICATION ? ? ?


Could it be that they are doing the very thing they claim to hate in religious zealots by persuading others to their viewpoint?
That only would be possible if that would be their object. But I do not see any reason to suggest that...


Also, why do many of them come across as arrogant and angry with the rest of us who don't share their views?
You may not share that... May be it is the mirror effect, because some theists here are extremely arrogant, angry, intolerant, bigoted, and hypocrite ! And if the shoe fits...


The interesting thing is that most atheists here would and have likened theism to believing in the "Bogeyman".
Not at all true ! Some religions are somewhat like that. Christianity is one of the worst ones of these. But there are also several rather positive religions in the world, like for instance Buddhism and Shinto.


So i can't help but wonder why one would spend so much time and energy on something they find as ridiculous as a belief in the bogeyman.
Perhaps to show that there are still ways to behave as a sane person, even if you believe in Christianity? The average Christian is as good a person as anyone else. But some creationists do not shy away from lying, cheating, sidestepping, twisting words, being hypocrite, etc... I'm sure you know one or more of these... Any mirrors around?


So if religion to atheists is a good as belief in Unicorns and fairy tales, then why spend so much of your free time on it....
Why not ask yourself the same? That is up to each individual, is it not? Why don't you ask yourself why you in your pursuit of your Christian Mission to "spread the word" are doing everything in your power to do just the reverse ? I mean you do not spread "the word", but you spread a lot of hatred, despite, bigotry, and hypocrisy, don't you agree?


I do not believe in the existence of unicorns, and I don't spend a lot of time trying to deny their existence or even thinking about them because it would counter-productive.
Personally I do not deny the existence of Unicorns or flying spaghetti Monsters. But I do not see any objective supported evidence for their existence.
Neither do I deny the existence of god(s) or devil(s). But also again here : I do not see any objective supported evidence for their existence.


I got to wondering: just why do atheists spend so much time thinking about God, even if it is in the form of denial?
It is not in the format of denial. And you should be very glad with their interest. Isn't that part of your Christian Mission?


Could it be that they are hoping someone will engage them in discussion and make a good enough argument that would dissuade them from their atheism, because deep down, they know on a subconscious level that what they are espousing is not truth.
I really do not think that. I would more suggest that they are just sick and tired of...
- all that steer waste that some fanatic "christians" post on the Internet.
- all the pressure that some fanatic "christians" try to introduce in social and political fields.
- all the religious hatred, the religious despite, the religious bigotry, and religious hypocrisy some fanatic "christians" try to post here daily...


I don’t know.. that’s just my theory anyway.. But i find it quite perplexing .... and ironic.
Funny : that was also my first impression of this post. When I read it again, I felt that pure frustration that seems to tear you apart, resulting in a bitter and often disrespectful liar and cheater, just because there are some people here who prefer to use their own brain in the process of thinking , unlike those who prefer to based their mental sanity on only a 2000 year old book full with subjective claims!


What’s really ironic is when an atheists tells me i am trying to shove my beliefs down their throats...
Well : actually he/she would be correct to tell you ! All your "christian" mission demands from you is to "spread the word". Not to force it upon others against their will ! And you do that all the time !


... wait a minute here….. I am on a religious forum and you came on this forum voluntarily so how am I shoving my beliefs on you? If anyone is "evangelizing" it you the atheist.
Extremely poor grammar, but I see what you mean...
I do not see any Secular Humanists doing that. All I see are (some) Secular Humanists respectfully pointing out that theists only "BELIEVE" what they claim to be "true".


So please any atheists out there please let me know why you have dedicated time and energy to something you deem non-existent.
You still seem to use the incorrect description of the word ATHEIST : with pleasure I will oncer more explain to you what an ATHEIST is, and what the word really means !

Atheist

ATHEISM

A THEISM

A = no (or without)

Theism = belief in deities

Atheism = No (or without) belief in deities.

Atheist : one who has no (or is without) belief in a deity or deities.

I really wonder why you seem incapable of understanding that...
Don't you pay attention when this is explained to you several times each week ?

:D :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

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How do you know how much time you have left? Get to sailing NOW Sass! Seriously, don't wait to do what you want in life. Cred might outlive all of us. You never know...
At least I sail once every week, weather permitting, in the Atlantic Ocean or the North Sea. And I can even access the Internet from aboard, while sailing , to kill the dull hours !

If only sassyT realized how much pleasure that provides!!

:D :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

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I like catamarans
Sassy do it right go for a catamaran

Sassy : just do it right...

:D :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

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Hi Sassy,

Good question. But here's the thing, don't get discouraged. We who do believe in our loving Father, don't want to stay cacooned, just with each other. There are those who don't believe in God, wonder maybe about beliefs, that do particapate.

Yes, there are those, who may pick apart are everyword... but that's okay, they are still here, and to me, that is a good sign. What they may not understand, is that we don't want them to believe, because we do, we want them to believe, because God's love is waiting for them, and He wants them to believe.

The key is, to try and not get frustrated or let the words that come at you, take you away from, who you are, or entering in a tit for tat. ( not saying you do at all, just in general).

There may be some who want to go tit for tat, but we don't need to enter that type of "discussion". When that happens, we need to just let God's love flow through us, and that is more then enough shield to keep us from entering into what I call "earthly" behaviour.

Not sure if that makes any sense. I hope that those who now feel they don't believe, continue to come, regardless of the words they say, there may be a day, that their hearts do indeed open to God's love.

I completely do understanding your frustration, but remember always, what is in your heart and let nothing interfere with sharing God's love, even though, it came become difficult at times.

Hi Sassy again :)

I had another thought. Just remember what was done to Our Lord. He was crucified by those who did not believe in Him.

Now not saying by any means, we can compare our self to Jesus, we could never, but if we get "crucified" with words, we should probably, use Jesus's actions, as our guide of how
To react.

"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do".

Very hard for us humans, but in ways, it actually is easier once we turn the other cheek, in a loving way, and not sink to levels of frustration or upset.

Hope this helps. It actually helps me, when I get in a jam, whether here on the site, or in life.

Yes they do, but most are not really athiests they are hurt self absorbed people who have a grudge against religion and Christianity, you don't see the same people going to Islam board and attacking them, or going to the Wicca board and attacking their religion, So no they don't have a problem really against religion, they have specific hatred against Christians.

I would go as far to say many have a mission to attack those of weak faith to do harm to their beliefs.

But we know this is to happen, in fact they are following the plan that the world is against those who follow the truth of God. In addition in fact if we were not under attack I would be more worried that we were not doing God's will. The Prince of this World does not need to come after those that are not following the will of God.

Fr. Chuck your words are so very very true.

There are many hurt souls looking and still searching and hoping to find, regain, their relationship with God.

And yes, there will be those, who are being used, to attack, bring down, those with such strong faith. Those are the souls that really indeed need to be here, even though the harshness is can be overbearing, but if they stay long enough and tire, our love, our words
Our strength, and God's strength, can hopefully, bring them back to God's loving arms.

:confused:

Could it be that they are hoping someone will engage them in discussion and make a good enough argument that would dissuade them from their atheism, because deep down, they know on a subconscious level that what they are espousing is not truth.
I don’t know.. that’s just my theory anyway.. But i find it quite perplexing .... and ironic.

Yes, I have found that to be a very credible point of view also, sassyT. In my previous discussions on this very subject matter I also was bombarded with horrible unreligious thoughts and language from un-Believers due to my Born-Again Christian beliefs. And I noticed that those who were making the verbal attacks stayed on and on for the most part as I discussed Jesus and ways on how they can be Saved. It could also be that there were some who were indeed Saved! Praise the Lord as it is something that is happening all of the time all over the world and we later hear through their own testimonies! Those who kept the conversation going may not have known that many other atheists visit here frequently and are learning more and more about Jesus and how to become Saved. Again, Praise the Lord! So, I consider it a blessed opportunity to discuss Jesus' Salvation with those un-Believers who are lost. Deep down they must feel the need for Salvation or they would not continue to visit and hold discussions with Christians. The only other reason they would be here is to try to sway our thinking which will never happen and I have told them so, and if that's their main agenda then they are in the wrong forum. We must thus arm ourselves with the Word of God as presented in the Scriptures to SHOW them what God says about these matters. We can spend time saying what we wish, with our own words, but ultimately, it is what God says that is TRUTH, thus the need for Scriptures.

What’s really ironic is when an atheists tells me i am trying to shove my beliefs down their throats.... wait a minute here….. I am on a religious forum and you came on this forum voluntarily so how am I shoving my beliefs on you? If anyone is "evangelizing" it you the atheist. :cool:


Yes, I find that ironic as well. But you have to realize that while some are coming to Christ during these discussions, though they never post a word but come quietly to only read, there are others who continue to help those people become Christians when they see their venomous postings, weak arguments, illogical ramblings, etc. to try to defend their position which obviously indicates that they believe they are self-created, that God did not create them thus, those who do not currently believe have the opportunity to sit back and think on the differences on what we offer vs. what they offer and the choice is clear for many -- JESUS! I would like to ask un-Believers the name of the rock or ocean or animal they believe created them? Or perhaps they believe an alien from outer space made them? But when they arrive at this forum and any other religious or Christian forum, we must show them through Scripture what God says in answer to their questions, for that, again, is TRUTH! That is the bottom line and to not do so would be more than remiss on our part but would show that our own faith is weak as we were not using The Word of God as armor to dismantle arguments unbelievers present.

This is a good thread and let us Pray that through our efforts many non-Believers who are ready to leave their current way of thinking and belief system will see the true This is a good thread and let us Pray that through our efforts many non-Believers who are ready to leave their current way of thinking and belief system will see the true differences and if led by their free will choice will find Jesus and become Born Again Christians In His Name and for His Greater Glory, thus, ensuring their ultimate Salvation when they pass on! Praise Be To God! and if led by their free will choice will find Jesus and become Born Again Christians In His Name and for His Greater Glory, thus, ensuring their ultimate Salvation when they pass on! Praise Be To God!

Yes they do, but most are not really athiests they are hurt self absorbed people who have a grudge against religion and Christianity,

I have to be honest and admit there's actually some truth to this. Being raised Christian and spending a good portion of my life believing in god... I do in a way, resent the faith now after feeling I'd been lied to all those years. I'm sure you'll take this as just another cheap shot, but there is merit to it and it should help to understand where others are coming from. Many people upon awakening from the ether of religious faith feel hurt, mad, and resentful. And they are mad FOR others who are still susceptible to such beliefs. It's not something I like to admit, but I think people should understand it all the same.


you don't see the same people going to Islam board and attacking them,

I have been to the paranormal forum. But they are just TOO easy! :)

I have been to the paranormal forum. But they are just TOO easy!


Maybe they do not feel they have to prove anything to anyone... I know what my eyes have seen and if I do not wish to argue over my ghostly experiences well call me easy, guess I could be called worse.:D

LOL I wondered why the harassment there is relatively low key compared to the Christian board.
Never thought of it like that.

If you little ladies and Chuck are not up to a discussion without resorting to making things up about atheists, throwing mud, insinuating, and acting stupid and hurt OVER NOTHING just post on the Christianity Board. :)

If you read the atheist's and secular humanist's posts here you will see that there is no anger in their posts... the anger is in your head, the fury is in your head. That's why you make such outrageous angry posts back instead of responding to the previous post. :)

Christians openly come to forums posted by atheists and state their opinions too. Either one who posts a forum on their religion or lack-there-of is setting themselves up for a debate from the ones with contradictory views. Not just atheists.

I for one know I do not go on any atheist boards although this one does feel like it is one quite often.

I for one know I do not go on any atheist boards although this one does feel like it is one quite often.

The question is why you don't go on atheists boards. I'll be flippant and ask if you're afraid of learning something? Nothing on religious forums has convinced me of a god, but I have learned a great deal.

Why do I need to go on atheist boards when they are already here?

I for one know I do not go on any atheist boards although this one does feel like it is one quite often.

Indeed it does. I do not visit such boards either as I feel that birds of a feather want to flock together and so be it. But if they wish to invite Christians to go and minister to them about Jesus and how to become a Christian, I would be glad to visit under those circumstances, no doubt, provided their tone is civil and congenial with the spirit of wanting to learn about becoming a Christian.

... I would be glad to visit under those circumstances, no doubt, provided their tone is civil and congenial with the spirit of wanting to learn about becoming a Christian.
The simple fact is that this website has no Atheism or Secular Humanism board. I have asked to add an Atheism board, an Evolution/Creationism board, and an Origin-of-the-Universe/Creationism board. But till these boards are provided, Atheists and Secular Humanists can only go to the religious discussion board. (With pleasure I will stand corrected - if so !)

No problem actually, as the Christians have their own Christianity board, and can post their "Hallelujahs" and "Praise the Lords" there, and DISCUSS religious and religion related matters here, together with believers of other religions, and with non-believers. This board is NOT intended for Christians only to support their belief!!

HOWEVER : Skygem's wish is incorrect.
... I would be glad to visit under those circumstances, no doubt, provided their tone is civil and congenial with the spirit of wanting to learn about becoming a Christian.
This is not a subdirectory of the Christianity board!! This is the Religious Discussion board. Not the Christianity Discussion board.
So I would welcome if not only other or non-believer provide a civil and congenial tone with the spirit of wanting to learn, but that Christians provide also a more civil and congenial tone with the spirit of wanting to learn.

To learn : from others about their views. Any views. And not as SkyGem incorrectly suggested only about becoming a Christian. That you Christian guys and girls should do on your own Christianity board!!

TO BE VERY CLEAR : THIS BOARD IS FOR DISCUSSIONS BY / WITH ANYONE - EVEN CHRISTIANS !!!

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:rolleyes: :cool: :p :cool: :rolleyes:

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I shared this video on another board - and just felt the need to share it here as well.

YouTube - Be Not Afraid, I go before you always (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBH-Eh9Bjjg)

bkhQLt1vbWU

Hi, I guess I should have explained the reason I posted that video. Sorry guys.

It was more for those who do believe and may feel hurt, or "put down" by words that come at them. I was just trying to remind all that God is with you always, and to not feel afriad or saddened by trying to spread his Love.

I have to say, I have never felt a twinge of pain, by words that have come at me, by those who do not believe in God. I know they come from a place that can not harm or hurt.

I have though, felt pain, by some, one or two, who do believe, who claim I am too soft, or not spreading God's word and love they way God has inteneded me too. That did bother me, and made me question my ways, and made me wonder if I was letting God down, if I were doing wrong, but in my heart I do believe I know better.

Some ears will hear God's love, in a softer tone, and some may need the volume turned up.

As far as going on atheist boards, if there was one. I would be scared to at first, as I feel I would be entering a place that I should not be. But then I thought, perhaps God would want us to. Not to belittle, or judge, but to help those children of God, as well.

... But then I thought, perhaps God would want us to. Not to belittle, or judge, but to help those children of God, as well.
Yes, what a problem... when a bunch of humans wrote the bible chapters there were no (electronic) computers, nor an Internet. So there are no instructions in the bible for believers, to be used thousands of years later.

To me that does not seem to support the claim of an Omniscient Christian god...

:rolleyes:

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Sorry Cred,

I don't quite understand your point. What I was saying that ultimately, I think God would want us to leave our comfort zone of being around just those who do believe, and reach out to those who do not.

Having faith in God, is a blessing is a gift. It in no way gives us any right to feel superior, quite the opposite. Those who do believe and have been blessed with the gift , and have accepted the gift, (because all are or will be offered the gift of faith), have an abosolute obligation to spread God's love and share it with all.

If we had a cure for cancer in our hands, and someone fell ill and on the verge of death with cancer, we would lovingly want to give all the cure. Same thing with faith.

... What I was saying that ultimately, I think ...
I reacted to what you posted. Not to what you think...
You may think (i.e. believe) whatever you want.


...God would want us to leave our comfort zone of being around just those who do believe, and reach out to those who do not.
That is what you BELIEVE !


...Having faith in God, is a blessing is a gift.
That is what you BELIEVE !

As to actions by Christians : if they would SHOW with their words AND their actions their belief as a true Christian...
But that is not is happening. I see many Christians posting here angry, rude, intolerant, aggressive, etc.
They do NOT show their Christian beliefs nor act like real Christians should do.

Why are they wondering why non-Christians keep pointing that out ?

:rolleyes:

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Of course that is what she believes this IS a religious board where Christians say WHAT they believe. It is not the FACT board, it is not the ''prove it'' board, it is not the science board, it is not the atheist board it IS the religious board so why do we have to state the obvious ---->

RELIGION = Believe IN, believe, belief

Cred, to be honest, I haven't seen the rudeness that you speak of, but I tend not to read all the post, when it is in "bold" or has a good bit of "negative" energy behind it. I truly don't read those post, because I get perplexed when talking about faith and God's love how it can disinegrate to negativity.

Anyway - Christians are human too, and we tend to be human, and sometimes are human side kicks in, which is wrong. I agree 100%, that rude behavior is not reflective of God's love.

Now, to the Christian defense, I made a thread the thread below, and it was to welcome all who do not believe to particapte, and not one Christian came in and tore anyone's thoughts, or feelings apart. It actually turned out to be a nice, peaceful thread, would you not agree?
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religious-discussions/once-believed-god-but-you-no-longer-do-234297.html

Of course that is what she believes this IS a religious board where Christians say WHAT they believe. It is not the FACT board, it is not the ''prove it'' board, it is not the science board, it is not the atheist board it IS the religious board . RELIGION = Believe IN, believe, belief
This is NOT a religious board. This is a MEMBERS DISCUSSION BOARD with religion in all it's views as focus. And that does not mean that everyone has to assume that every religious claim has suddenly been elevated to a higher validity.

A claim is a claim, is a claim, is a claim. And you should precede a claim with "I think" or "I believe"... It is as simple as that...

:rolleyes:

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Notice at the top off the page it says Religious Discussions so that makes it a board about religion.
And you are right that does not mean that everyone has to assume that every religious claim has suddenly been elevated to a higher validity.
BUT it also means that you should assume that what is said by Christians IS THEIR BELIEF as it IS the religious discussions vs a board of factual stuff.

Notice at the top off the page it says Religious Discussions
And you are right that does not mean that everyone has to assume that each and every religious claim has suddenly been elevated to a higher validity.
BUT it also means that you should assume that what is said by Christians IS THEIR BELIEF as it IS the religious discussions vs a board of factual stuff.


Very well said NO.

... BUT it also means that you should assume that what is said by Christians IS THEIR BELIEF as it IS the religious discussions vs a board of factual stuff.
No. It does not mean that.

As I stated :
... a claim is a claim is a claim is a claim is a claim ...

:rolleyes:

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Yeah so it is a claim. What's the point?
I never said it wasn't a claim.

What I don't understand is why people are posting so many topics on religion in the first place? I remember I had another account about a year ago and I've never seen many posts about it. But now it seems its all anyone has to say. Who cares if a person chooses not to have a religion? Honestly its like being homosexual, it doesn't affect anyone else. People with religions are the ones with guidelines stating how they should live their lives and treat other human beings. Atheist's don't have a belief, so how does that affect a Christian at all? It doesn't mean you can't keep your faith in God or Jesus and keep practicing your religion. You just make yourself look stupid when you stoop to such a level that you have to argue with a non-believer and convince them they are doing something wrong. Because they aren't doing anything wrong. It's a free country. I'll admit some Atheist's are rude and ignorant and are wrong to ridicule someone for having a religion because its not their life. But it seems there are an equal amount of Christians who do the same thing. They make blunt accusations about how an Atheist must live their life, and they are evil and depressed and hate themselves etc. How could you come to that conclusion about a person because they have no religion? I never thought a good Christian person could say such things about another. But obviously they can. And it makes me think, why would I want to belong to a religion where the people in it can't even follow their own rules? The rules contradict each other, and when they break one of their rules, they have others to compensate for the one they broke. Its just a chain where you get away with everything anyway. Its so much easier to just live life with an open mind and make mistakes without having to answer to anyone.

We are not the ones going to the atheist board claiming it affects us they are coming here making their claims and accusations

We are not the ones going to the atheist board claiming it affects us they are coming here making their claims and accusations
Once more in the hope this reaches your brain cells : THERE IS NO ATHEISM BOARD HERE OM AMHD (as far as I know)!!

Nobody goes here to an Atheism board, because there is no Atheism board!!
And even if there was, why would anyone have to go to any specific board? This is the only available discussion board open to all for "spiritual matters", regardless of personal or religious views !

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

·

Once more in the hope this reaches your brain cells : THERE IS NO ATHEISM BOARD HERE OM AMHD (as far as I know) !!!

Nobody goes here to an Atheism board, because there is no Atheism board !!!
And even if there was, why would anyone have to go to any specific board? This is the only available discussion board open to all for "spiritual matters", regardless of personal or religious views !

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

·

I once suggested to a mod that there be a forum specifically geared towards secularism. Not surprisingly, he pshawed it.

I once suggested to a mod that there be a forum specifically geared towards secularism. Not surprisingly, he pshawed it.
But in the mean time this situation p*sses off even more "christians" who seem to think that this discussion board is some second Christianity board. Actually I don't mind that there is no Atheism board. This discussion board provides more than enough ways to post my views...

:)

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[QUOTE=Credendovidis]
Once more in the hope this reaches your brain cells : THERE IS NO ATHEISM BOARD HERE OM AMHD (as far as I know)!!

Nobody goes here to an Atheism board, because there is no Atheism board!!
And even if there was, why would anyone have to go to any specific board? This is the only available discussion board open to all for "spiritual matters", regardless of personal or religious views !


Did I say it HAS to be AMHD?? I am talking ANY atheist board on the whole entire Worldwide web!!!DAH!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

·

DAH
So you what you really meant to say was that you suggested non-Christians just to get lost to another board ? Is that it?

That is even worse than I already thought...

:D :D :D :D :D :D

·

NO where do you get that?
I was replying to whiterose #44 WHY this board is so popular basically
And somebody else further back but don't have the # for that.

NO where do you get that?
So your !!!!DAH!!!!!!! in your #49 post "... Did I say it HAS to be AMHD???? I am talking ANY atheist board on the whole entire Worldwide web!!!DAH!!!!!!!!" refers now suddenly to #44??

But I do not see any!! DAH!! There...
Careful Nohelp4u : once you start lying it becomes more and more difficult to get out of it again...

You really like to be shown a fraud, isn't it? From Ask Me to WeTellYou to Answerway, and now also on AMHD...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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I didn't realize you would not realize that I was replying to the others and that you would take it as meaning AMHD AGAIM when I said that so
I did not see a need to say dah until you repeated that there is no atheist board on AMHD again.
SO you can keep misconstruing what people say is a lie if you want because that is your perception so whatever.

I didn't realize you would not realize that ....
That is a clear anf deliberate lie!! I repeat my previous post to you to prove that !

NO where do you get that?
So your !!!!DAH!!!!!!! in your #49 post "... Did I say it HAS to be AMHD???? I am talking ANY atheist board on the whole entire Worldwide web!!!DAH!!!!!!!!" refers now suddenly to #44??

But I do not see any !!!DAH!!!!!!!! there ....
Careful Nohelp4u : once you start lying it becomes more and more difficult to get out of it again...

You really like to be shown a fraud, isn't it? From Ask Me to WeTellYou to Answerway, and now also on AMHD...

Nohelp4u : this is the second lie I proved you to have posted here... with the third lie the cock will crow for you : another lost soul...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

·

ASSUME what you wish. SO WHAT, I did not FEEL like saying DAH in the one giving you the benefit of the doubt and figuring that you would THEN follow my explanation
BUT YOU DIDN'T AND you persisted SO THEN I said DAH in the other one
INTERPRET it any way you wish!
NO fraud about it on my part how you lose things in translation.

DAH!

How do you know how much time you have left? Get to sailing NOW Sass! Seriously, don't wait to do what you want in life. Cred might outlive all of us. You never know...


Lol you are right, I suppose what I should have said was if was garanoteed to have a short time left to live.


This is NOT a religious board.?????????????????????? This is a MEMBERS DISCUSSION BOARD with religion in all it's views as focus. And that does not mean that everyone has to assume that each and every religious claim has suddenly been elevated to a higher validity.

A claim is a claim, is a claim, is a claim. And you should precede a claim with "I think" or "I believe" .... It is as simple as that ....

:rolleyes:

·

There goes cred. He is in such denial.
You really struggle with reality don't you.. lol

Cred, FYI this is a RELIGIOUS FORUM. ;)

Hello Sassy:

Aren't you the one who keeps on saying that secular humanism is a religion??? I think you are. So, which way is it?

excon

Lol Apparently this proves my point. :D

Hi everyone,

I was reading through some of the responses from you all (atheists) and the general consensus I'm get from you as to why you frequent religious forums despite the fact that you claim to be non-religious goes as follows. I am going to list each one and give a solution to each.

-Some of you said you are bitter ex Christians (or ex religious folk) who hold a grudge and resentment against Christianity.
Solution: Get over it:- Harassing Christians by trying to convince them to stop believing is not going to change anything... trust me.

-Some of you said it's because there is no atheist forum on the site.
Solution: Move to a new forum:- You can all discuss your atheistic beliefs on the "other discussions" section of the site, that way you are not butting heads with "religious folk" who want be left in peace.

-Some of you said it was your "retirement Job" and you claimed to be doing some service to America because Christians have manipulated American politics.
Solution: Stop wasting your time:- By harassing Christians on religious forums you are not doing any service to society. Believe me... I think I speak for most Christians here when I say, what is said to me on this site goes in one ear and out the other ear metaphorically. So you are not changing any mind sets here.. trust me. What you are doing is wasting your time.

-Some of you said it is a form of passing time because of boredom, so you attempt to entertain yourself by harassing Christians about what they believe.
Solution: Get a life: - There are many ways to entertain one self that are less counter-productive. Here are a few suggestions- find a sport you enjoy, rent movies, watch educational programs, spend quality time with family, make new friends, join a library and read books.. the list goes on. These are suggestions of better ways to spend your free time than arguing over the existence of something you see on the same level as unicorns.

Some of you said you are here to remind us that "these are our BELIEFS".
Solution: DUH: - we don't need you to state the obvious over and over. Again this boils down to getting a life and finding better ways to spend and enjoy life.

Notice at the top off the page it says Religious Discussions so that makes it a board about religion.
And you are right that does not mean that everyone has to assume that each and every religious claim has suddenly been elevated to a higher validity.
BUT it also means that you should assume that what is said by Christians IS THEIR BELIEF as it IS the religious discussions vs a board of factual stuff.

Yes! DUH.. this is religious forums so of course people are talking about Beliefs... They just keep stating the obvious :rolleyes:

Sass your box is FULL

****I can't send you a PM asking you to make room in your PM:eek:

Credendovidis]All I see are (some) Secular Humanists respectfully pointing out that theists only "BELIEVE" what they claim to be "true".

Respectfully? LMAO, thanks for the chuckle.


And consider this also : isn't that precisely the idea of this board ? COMMUNICATION?

Communication is a two way street.


You may not share that... May be it is the mirror effect, because some theists here are extremely arrogant, angry, intolerant, bigoted, and hypocrite ! And if the shoe fits...

How are your shoes fitting?


Perhaps to show that there are still ways to behave as a sane person, even if you believe in Christianity? The average Christian is as good a person as anyone else. But some creationists do not shy away from lying, cheating, sidestepping, twisting words, being hypocrite, etc... I'm sure you know one or more of these... Any mirrors around?


The pot calling the kettle black.


Funny : that was also my first impression of this post. When I read it again, I felt that pure frustration that seems to tear you apart, resulting in a bitter and often disrespectful liar and cheater, just because there are some people here who prefer to use their own brain in the process of thinking , unlike those who prefer to based their mental sanity on only a 2000 year old book full with subjective claims!

Wow, allot of liars on this board, or is it because you cannot dispute them that they are liars?


Well : actually he/she would be correct to tell you ! All your "christian" mission demands from you is to "spread the word". Not to force it upon others against their will ! And you do that all the time !

And what are you doing, what's your mission? You constantly post things that are geared to upset people who believe in God.


Extremely poor grammar, but I see what you mean...

And there you go being respectful again. :)


I really wonder why you seem incapable of understanding that...
Don't you pay attention when this is explained to you several times each week ?

And again.:rolleyes:

Of course I know what will happen when I post this, but, what the heck. ;)

This is all I have to say.

Good luck. :)

To answer the original question, Atheists come to the religion board because atheism is a RELIGION. It is just that most of them refuse to admit to that fact. Their constant pot shots at religion in general, and Christianity in particular is merely the effort of one religionist to prove their religion superior to the competition.

Atheists come to the religion board because atheism is a RELIGION.

And the non-belief in astrology is just another pseudo science, right?

Choux> Christianity in America has become a political party engaged in such nasty organized behavior that has to be opposed openly and forcefully by decent Americans.
Bravo


Capuchin> Personally - I'm interested in defending science and evidential inquiry when it is attacked, which often happens in these discussions - hence I keep an eye on it.

I'm also very interested in religion - it's a very intriguing human condition, don't you think? It's something that I don't understand and am eager to learn more about..
I fully agree on both points.

Allheart - you have consistently shown me that the loud obnoxious variety of those who scream they're Christian are not necessarily representative of believers in Jesus. You and your 'brand' of quiet faith I respect.


Fr_Chuck> Yes they do, but most are not really athiests they are hurt self absorbed people who have a grudge against religion and Christianity, you don't see the same people going to Islam board and attacking them, or going to the Wicca board and attacking their religion, So no they don't have a problem really against religion, they have specific hatred against Christians..

What a bigoted-sounding POV. I don't read attacks on atheists on the Islam board. And every Wiccan I've ever met has been quite tolerant of people's beliefs and non-belief. My only grudge against Christians are those that are trying to co-opt the politics and education in this country.


Galveston1>... atheism is a RELIGION

It is the antithesis of religion.


SassyT> Why do so called "atheists" devote countless hours and energy to attempting to disprove and demean religion on "religious" forums? What is their motive behind vehemently deconstructing the Christian faith in particular and propagating their own lack of faith?
Could it be that they are doing the very thing they claim to hate in religious zealots by persuading others to their viewpoint? Also, why do many of them come across as arrogant and angry with the rest of us who don't share their views?
There may be one or two who fit your description, but many of the questions are directed at those who question religion. Most of the respondents do so with respect. If atheists or agnostics weren't expected to check in, to whom are the questions like that directed? Besides, there is no atheist board so choosing the antithesis is the closest we have.
But I understand your confusion. You take every chance you get to denegrate science no matter where you find it. And you do so with an undeserved smirk and thinly veiled slurs. The "so-called" and the quotes on 'atheist' are an example. I suppose I should call you a supposed "Christian" (so much tolerance and love in your posts). I at least admit there are people who do believe (even if I think it irrational). Do you have such a lack of imagination that you can't conceive of someone who doesn't?


SassyT>... wrong country if you have that much hatred for Christians.
So since you've deluded yourself into thinking this country, founded on freedom of and freedom from religion is a Christian nation... Is that why atheists are so persecuted? How about all the bigotry against Wiccans?

Your post #58 proves my points.

It's simple, the Christians are attempting to convert/convince the Atheists and the Atheists are attempting to convert/convince the Christians and neither side is winning anyone over.

The mud-slinging comes from both camps. Solution, quit slinging it.

It's simple, the Christians are attempting to convert/convince the Atheists and the Atheists are attempting to convert/convince the Christians and neither side is winning anyone over.

The mud-slinging comes from both camps. Solution, quit slinging it.

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/it_ribbon04052005111534.gif

It's simple, the Christians are attempting to convert/convince????????? the Atheists and the Atheists are attempting to convert/convince the Christians and neither side is winning anyone over.

The mud-slinging comes from both camps. Solution, quit slinging it.

Lol this is the sort of irony I am talking about.

Simoneaugie... don't get it twisted buddy, you athiests come on this RELIGIOUS forum volutarily. No one invited you... in fact we would rather you don't come here so that us religious people can converse about our beliefs in peace. You come here to promote your own beliefs and you are the ones who are coming here to convince and convert us to your athiestic beliefs. Frankly I couldn't care less whether you believe in God or not. I should, but unfortunately I don't, so don't flatter yourself by thinking I am on a quest to convert you.. lol

After all, we christians are not the ones who spend half our lives on Athiestic forum. I couldn't care less about atheism that's why I don't waste my time with it. But apparenty you have a vested interest in religion and you spend your free time trying to convince believers that they are wrong and your beliefs are right. Please :rolleyes:

You athiests on religious forums are just as good as those religious people who knock on people's doors trying to convert them. You are doing the same thing on this religious forum, harassing us with you beliefs.
Solution for you: Save it:- Don't waste your time trying to convert us Christians to your atheistic beliefs because I can assure you that your effort is futile. Move on.


To answer the original question, Atheists come to the religion board because atheism is a RELIGION. It is just that most of them refuse to admit to that fact. Their constant pot shots at religion in general, and Christianity in particular is merely the effort of one religionist to prove their religion superior to the competition.

I am starting to think that myself. Maybe my quest to find why athiests frequent religious forums lies in what you are saying Galveston.
Atheism is a Religion... mmmm

That's it!

This isn't a religious forum. It's a place for religious discussion. That is for anyone to come and discuss religion. Stop clinging onto the belief that this is your forum and the atheists are invading.

No it is not that atheists are invading it is that it is a religion discussion place where religion should be freely discussed and the point is if an atheist can't handle religious discussion and even sometimes feel the need to attack people's religious beliefs and claim they have no beliefs why do they come here?
What do they hope to accomplish?

Atheism IS a religion and they are trying to spread the good news. What's wrong with that?

Cred0 has insisted for yrs that atheism is NOT a religion so you are agreeing with Sassy that it is and disagreeing with Cred0 that it is not a religion??

Well I didn't think it was but Sassy is always correct it appears. There is no god to worship, no sacred texts, no prayers, no congregation but it must be a religion because sassy says so - plus it allows us unfettered access to all religious forums without all the whining.

So basically we have Sassy 'whining' that it is a religion and we have Cred0 insisting that we HAVE to say ''I or we believe'' before every religious discussion belief we say and then the whole conversation gets lost to making belief vs fact the issue instead of replying to the question... no wonder I only reply to a small percentage of the stuff on the religious boards.

That's just those two. You can set them to "Ignore".

My ignore is the 'unsubscribe' button when I had enough.

Or take a break from the site.

This isn't a religious forum. It's a place for religious discussion. That is for anyone to come and discuss religion. Stop clinging onto the belief that this is your forum and the atheists are invading.

Call it what you want but I am not here to split hairs with you. This is a religious discussion forum whether you like it or not. Athiests and who ever is welcome here but don't come here and mock people's beliefs and religions and expect me to keep quiet... hell no.
The reason why I am saying Athiests are "invading" is because you so called athiests come on this board not to learn or have civil discussions about religion but rather you come to attack religion to make hateful demeaning and condescending remarks about it as if you better than everyone else. Well you are not.. sorry. So that's why I said if you don't have anything better to do than BULLY and harass people about their beliefs, then you have serious issues and all I can do is feel sorry for people like that.

My ignore is the 'unsubscribe' button when I had enough.

NeedKarma is already on my ignore list and has been since January. I like it that way. ;)

The sad fact is that we cannot have a rational discussion about our different view points and beliefs. For Cred it's all vocabulary, say believe or belief, not fact, but to a Christian it is fact, not just belief, that's were the problems start.

None of us are innocent, I know I'm not, Sassy, either are you. When someone attacks our beliefs then we attack back, it's human nature. If we could all just agree to disagree there wouldn't be a need for all of this back and forth insulting.

We are all just trying to express our point of view, and neither side is doing a very good job of that. Let's face it, most of these threads are started to insult and provoke the other side. Both sides are guilty.

So, where has all this mud slinging gotten us? Have we reached a verdict? Are we any closer to resolving our differences? No. We have started allot of fights, arguments and hurt feelings, but other than that, we are no closer to accepting each others beliefs. So why continue? Can anyone tell me?

Exactly Altenweg it is all about attacks from both sides instead of an unspoken understanding that believers believe and non believers accept fact. Pages are taken up on the stupid pointing it out and then the point of the post is lost.

Exactly, but it happens again and again, will it ever end? I don't think so.

That is what you BELIEVE !

That is what you BELIEVE !
Yes, of course it is what she believes, but your constant repetition of this obvious and uncontested fact, has long since ceased to contribute anything substantive to the discussion. Give it a rest, please.

Yes, of course it is what she believes, but your constant repetition of this obvious and uncontested fact, has long since ceased to contribute anything substantive to the discussion. Give it a rest, please.
Seconded.

Third. :)

Fourth.
I think we can ALL live without any of the ''that is what you believe'', ''that is your claim'', etc... from anybody.

Fourth.

Fifth.



That's just those two. You can set them to "Ignore".

Needs repeating - *golf clap*

NOhelp4U>... if an atheist can't handle religious discussion and even sometimes feel the need to attack people's religious beliefs and claim they have no beliefs why do they come here? What do they hope to accomplish?
Why do religionists feel they need to attack non-believers wherever they find them? I only can think of one who regularly displays open hostility to the religious. The vast majority simply want to discuss. Why is a discusion seen as an attack?

Capuchin> This isn't a religious forum. It's a place for religious discussion. That is for anyone to come and discuss religion. Stop clinging onto the belief that this is your forum and the atheists are invading..

Bravo!

sominoeaugie> It's simple, the Christians are attempting to convert/convince the Atheists and the Atheists are attempting to convert/convince the Christians and neither side is winning anyone over.

Not all atheist want to 'convert' the religious (tho all wish they would see the irrationality of their beliefs <G>). Personally, I just would like the religiuos to stop trying to influence all aspects of society and realize that not everyone shares their views nor wants to live by their religiously based rules. And that the non-religious should stop being persecuted. And, that those who do not believe in monotheism stop being persecuted.

When the discussion is constantly pointed out as that is your belief when that should be clear since it IS the religious discussion board, it is not the fact board or the science board so as I have been saying my point is why does it have to constantly be pointed out 'that is your belief' and not accepted as such?

WVHiflyer, I do agree that most times non-believers do just want to discuss, and that there are really only two people that are consistently argumentative on this site. I will even say that there are Christians on this site that are consistently argumentative on this site. I've said it before, I'll say it again, both sides are guilty.

I wish that an open honest kind discussion could be carried out, but I don't think it's possible. It may start okay, but it quickly turns in to a fight, and then wham, the thread is closed, only to be replaced by and even more argumentative thread.

The reason that we cannot discuss peacefully is because the majority of people who do come to these threads are firm believers in their faith and will do anything and everything to defend it.

Also, allot of these threads are started just to tick off the opposing side, start an argument. I may get allot of people angry by saying this, but this thread is the perfect example of that. Credo is also known to start threads that are a jab at people who's beliefs are different than his, it's like putting bait in front of a shark.

So, one side starts it, the other side joins in, they battle, quote each other, turn eachothers words around and nothing is accomplished.

I wish I could ignore these threads, believe me I've tried, but too many times something is said and I feel the need to jump in.

I do believe in God, I pray to God, and I know, in my heart, that he exists. No one can tell me otherwise, no one will persuade me to turn my back on God. So, to me, God is a fact, not fiction, I don't need proof. To others, non-believers (not all) they are constantly harping on believers to provide proof. Not my job, if they want it they can find it.

I do not believe in the bible (what am I starting by saying that?), I do not believe in Church (another target on my back), but I do believe in God.

Am I willing to discuss whether God exists, no, because to me he does, the end.

Are most atheist willing to discuss whether God exists, no, because to them, he doesn't, the end.

So, why are we fighting, why are we trying to discuss this? Your guess is as good as mine, because really, I can't see a time or place where the opposing sides can have a rational, logical, unargumentative discussion about their views without mud slinging, name calling and fighting.

Sorry for the long post, but that's how I feel.

Peace. :)

Alt - one of the most logical posts I've seen on these types of posts. I see your snuffling hasn't affected your reasoning yet... <G> (Brandy help?)

Still snuffling, and I've lost my voice, but not my ability to type. ;)

Religion is not non-existent....

Personally - I'm interested in defending science and evidential inquiry when it is attacked, which often happens in these discussions - hence I keep an eye on it.

I'm also very interested in religion - it's a very intriguing human condition, don't you think? It's something that I don't understand and am eager to learn more about.

I hope this helps.

Same for me. I just search on "evolution" and it nearly always comes up in Religion for some reason. If people are seriously talking about evolution, I try to put some accurate information out there if I have time. I don't browse religion and am not interested in purely religious discussions. I prefer to talk about evolution in the science section, where discussions are much calmer. The word appeared in this thread...


Am I willing to discuss whether or not God exists, no, because to me he does, the end.

Are most atheist willing to discuss whether or not God exists, no, because to them, he doesn't, the end.

So, why are we fighting, why are we trying to discuss this?

Amen!

When the discussion is constantly pointed out as that is your belief when that should be clear since it IS the religious discussion board, it is not the fact board or the science board so as I have been saying my point is why does it have to constantly be pointed out 'that is your belief' and not accepted as such?

But again, you're talking about ONE person on this board; please don't lump the rest of the non-believers in with someone who does not represent our views or opinions. There are plenty of non-believers on this site who simply discuss.


WVHiflyer, I do agree that most times non-believers do just want to discuss, and that there are really only two people that are consistently argumentative on this site. I will even say that there are Christians on this site that are consistently argumentative on this site. I've said it before, I'll say it again, both sides are guilty.

Both sides aren't guilty - those individuals are guilty.

People need to remember to deal with individuals on this site how they see fit, and not lump everyone together because of a few a-holes. Personally, I advocate the "ignore" button. It is, by far, my favorite feature of this site! :)

I agree Jillianbean and I did not mean to make it sound like everybody I meant 'those that have a problem with Christians not specifying I believe before every thing they say.

Atheists try to disprove the existence of God. Deep down they believe God exists or they wouldn't try so hard to disprove Him.

Atheists try to disprove the existance of God. Deep down they believe God exists or they wouldnt try so hard to disprove Him.

I can't wait to read what Cred0 does with this one :D
(some how I already KNOW what he will do with it :rolleyes: :rolleyes: )

Yes, of course it is what she believes, but your constant repetition of this obvious and uncontested fact, has long since ceased to contribute anything substantive to the discussion. Give it a rest, please.

Seventh!

Why do religionists feel they need to attack non-believers wherever they find them? I only can think of one who regularly displays open hostility to the religious. The vast majority simply want to discuss. Why is a discusion seen as an attack?

Religious people do not attack non believers... But when non believers come on a religious forum and make condescending demeaning remarks about religion then you best to expect we believers are not going to take the abuse and be silent about it. After all.. it is you so called non-religious people who come on the religious forum day in day out.. it is not the other way round.

Atheists try to disprove the existance of God. Deep down they believe God exists or they wouldnt try so hard to disprove Him.

I don't try to disprove god, nor do any of the atheists I personally know. Most of the ones on this board don't do that either. You are speaking about a very small minority of atheists here.

I'm not trying to disprove anything. I'm discussing. Just because I question the evidence a theist uses as proof of god (a child's laugh, a sunset, etc) doesn't mean I'm trying to disprove them. My whole thing is what YOU think is proof isn't proof to ME.

It's impossible to disprove god, those who do are generally just being argumentative. God, by the very nature of what he is supposed to be, CAN'T be disproven, because he's not bound by the rules of science. You can't disprove something that is supernatural, it's impossible. Science doesn't try to disprove the existence of god, it tries to explain the world.

Both sides aren't guilty - those individuals are guilty.

People need to remember to deal with individuals on this site how they see fit, and not lump everyone together because of a few a-holes.
This is the heart of the matter, and I concur.

I have often been surprised to find that there are some real jerks who share some of my opinions about some things. It's good to be reminded of that, I think. It reminds me that my opinions are far less revealing of who I really am than I'm sometimes tempted to think.

Religious people do not attack non believers.... But when non believers come on a religious forum and make condescending demeaning remarks about religion then you best to expect we believers are not going to take the abuse and be silent about it. After all.. it is you so called non-religious people who come on the religious forum day in day out.. it is not the other way round.

Sassy, I hate to disagree, but from my understanding, the Religious Discussions board was actually started specifically for people like Cred. We have other discussion forums, like the Christianity forum etc. From what I've been told they started this board in order to stop the fighting on the Christianity boards, because before Religious Discussions was opened up, that's the only place atheists could go to express their views.

Now I do have to say that the Religious Discussions board isn't being used the way I think it was intended. I think the mods etc had hoped to give atheists a place to express their views, not a place to bash other peoples beliefs. I realize that really only one person is guilty of that to the extreme, but as long as we come here and voice our opinions on this persons chosen topics, we are just feeding the troll, so to speak.

Just my thoughts on the matter. I still wish we could discuss all this with an open mind and heart, but I really cannot see that happening any time soon.

I'm guilty too, I've let myself get dragged into discussions way too often, and I have to say that because of my disappointing discussions (more like fights) with one atheist, I tend to be on guard with all the other atheists. It's human nature, once you've been burned you try not to stick you hand in the fire again.

I will still be on guard with that one person, but for the rest of you, that don't share the same beliefs I do, I value all of you, your input to this site and your right to believe what you want, I hope you can do the same for me, knowing most of you as I do I'm sure you will. :)

Just because I question the evidence a theist uses as proof of god (a child's laugh, a sunset, etc) doesn't mean I'm trying to disprove them. My whole thing is what YOU think is proof isn't proof to ME.

It's impossible to disprove god, those who do are generally just being argumentative. God, by the very nature of what he is supposed to be, CAN'T be disproven, because he's not bound by the rules of science. You can't disprove something that is supernatural, it's impossible. Science doesn't try to disprove the existence of god, it tries to explain the world.

Jillian, I think that's very well put. And not only is it impossible to disprove the existence of a God, by the same argument, it's impossible to prove that a God exists. Science just can't do that, prove or disprove that kind of thing one way or the other.

I have often been surprised to find that there are some real jerks who share some of my opinions about some things. It's good to be reminded of that, I think. It reminds me that my opinions are far less revealing of who I really am than I'm sometimes tempted to think.

Yes. And likewise, there are many people who disagree with me about important things--like the existence of God or who should be president--who I really like and admire.

white-rose?> People with religions are the ones with guidelines stating how they should live their lives and treat other human beings. Atheist's don't have a belief, so how does that affect a Christian at all?
... I'll admit some Atheist's are rude and ignorant and are wrong to ridicule someone for having a religion because its not their life. But it seems there are an equal amount of Christians who do the same thing. They make blunt accusations about how an Atheist must live their life, and they are evil and depressed and hate themselves etc. How could you come to that conclusion about a person because they have no religion? I never thought a good Christian person could say such things about another. But obviously they can. And it makes me think, why would I want to belong to a religion where the people in it can't even follow their own rules?

I'd give you a greenie if I could.

Shih-tzumama> Atheists try to disprove the existence of God. Deep down they believe God exists or they wouldn't try so hard to disprove Him.

I could just as easily say the correlative: The religious try so hard to convince others of their faith because deep down they don't really believe.
And it would be just as 'true.'

...

I'm guilty too, I've let myself get dragged into discussions way too often, and I have to say that because of my disappointing discussions (more like fights) with one atheist, I tend to be on guard with all the other atheists. It's human nature, once you've been burned you try not to stick you hand in the fire again.

I will still be on guard with that one person, but for the rest of you, that don't share the same beliefs I do, I value all of you, your input to this site and your right to believe what you want, I hope you can do the same for me, knowing most of you as I do I'm sure you will. :)

Hear, hear!

I'm actually surprised that so many discussions about God happen between atheists and Christians, what do we hope to accomplish by doing this?

Personally I believe in everyone's right to believe whatever they want, I won't try to persuade you to believe in God, if you don't try to persuade me not to. What matters to me is not what you believe, but what kind of person you are, if you're a good person that's all that matters.

Group hug? ;):)

I'm actually surprised that so many discussions about God happen between atheists and Christians, what do we hope to accomplish by doing this?

Personally I believe in everyone's right to believe whatever they want, I won't try to persuade you to believe in God, if you don't try to persuade me not to. What matters to me is not what you believe, but what kind of person you are, if you're a good person that's all that matters.

Group hug? ;):)

A big one (even if there are 2 I think I'd like to leave out <VBSEG>)

A big one (even if there are 2 I think I'd like to leave out <VBSEG>)


They're not here right now, so it's all good. :) So I'll start, big hug to you WVHiflyer. :)

You realize that this will all hit the fan when those 2 come back, right? ;)

Why do I need to go on atheist boards when they are already here?:p

NOhelp4u,:p that was indeed one of most quick, truthful and funniest comments I've seen on this board or any board.. Good going…I am still laughing. :p
:p

Laughter is good for the soul. Where is the Christian board? I have not seem one.

They're not here right now, so it's all good. :) So I'll start, big hug to you WVHiflyer. :)

You realize that this will all hit the fan when those 2 come back, right? ;)

Hugs back (tho I'm wearing a face mask so you can keep your flu :rolleyes: )


And... Oh, yeah... :p

I have read through all of your posts in this thread. I want to say that I am very happy with my beliefs, and I am glad to read others also. However, I do want to say, if not believing in anything makes some people, under a guise of being a non-believer, spew venomous words, and be full of hatred, I will stick to my belief in God. Which incidentally, I would have regardless.

I know this isn't the belief or actions of all atheists, but the two I have encountered on this thread seem to be very self-righteous, and absorbed in a world of their own. They attack others on a personal level, and act like school yard kids.

A discussion does not call for such child-like behaviour, with the very obvious, and ever present bullying behaviour. To catagorize every Christian, or someone who believes in God and Jesus, is only the same as catagorizing all Atheists and their personal beliefs! It's called Freedom of Religion, and everyone has a right to believe in what they choose.

If the two right wing Atheists want to argue the point of God's existence, then why don't they sit down and share their beliefs, and maybe then have a civilized discussion where others can learn, instead of coming here to name call and try to demean people with your one sided belief.

It wouldn't matter what beliefs I had. I would never think of talking to others that try and be respectful, the way certain people here have chosen to behave! They are the words of very uninformed and immature people, that do not have the class to talk in a civilized manner. You know who you are.

I must leave and feed my unicorn. I think he wants toast!

Laughter is good for the soul. Where is the Christian board? I have not seem one.
Home > Society & Culture > Religion » Christianity

Of course, that is a place to discuss Christianity, whether you are Christian or not.

Wow sassyT, you're a very angry young Christian, you need to get some help.

First you say that you 'never said this was a religious forum' and then you start the next sentence with 'this is a religious forum', then you verbally attack some poor guy for responding to a question you specifically designed to be answered by atheists.

What is your deal? Your obviously looking for an argument and then running into playing the victim, if your representing Christians in this OPEN forum, then your really giving them a bad rep.

At first I felt a little sad for you being harassed whilst trying to speak to other like minded people on these religious forums- but now I can see that you're the one creating all the problems.

If you feel like making yourself any angrier you should check out Intelligent : Design - Message from the Designers (http://www.rael.org)
I'm sure that will have you spinning in a rage for days! Lol

With all due respect, you haven't been here long enough to understand how the discussions on this forum have been turned inside out. I completely understood the point that Sassy was trying to make here. I'm sure you will also, if you go through and read previous discussions.

Also, you say 'Almost 80% of Americans are Christians', this reminds me of a poster in the Simpsons, it read: 50 million smokers can't be wrong!

Ha ha ha ha, and by the way Unicorns never used rhetoric to commit genocide.

Just because America was founded by Christian people doesn't make it a Christian country, that's why your bill of rights gives all Americans religious freedom.

If you really want to live as a true Christian you'd move out of the USA and to the middle east where Christianity begun.

Also, you say 'Almost 80% of Americans are Christians', this reminds me of a poster in the Simpsons, it read: 50 million smokers can't be wrong'!

Ha ha ha ha, and by the way Unicorns never used rhetoric to commit genocide.

Just because America was founded by Christian people doesn't make it a Christian country, thats why your bill of rights gives all Americans religious freedom.

If you really want to live as a true Christian you'd move out of the USA and to the middle east where Christianity begun.

Do your homework first! I happen to live in Canada for one thing, and if you were trying to quote me?. I was not the one that gave any stats. Please learn your way around this site and read up on what you have missed. Just the fact that you are quoting "The Simpsons" makes me giggle! The unicorn statement was tongue in cheek somewhat, and if you watch the "Simpsons" I think you would understand the humour in that.

Actually starbuck8, I wasn't quoting you, I hadn't seen your post when I responded for the second time, you could probably have figured that out on your own by the way I was writing, and seeings as you have already worked out that I'm a new user and not use to navigating around the site, I find it doubly surprising that you couldn't figure out I wasn't responding to you.

And I'm not even going to respond to the simpsons statement, your just not worth the effort:eek:

Actually starbuck8, i wasn't quoting you, i hadn't seen your post when i responded for the second time, you could probably have figured that out on your own by the way i was writing, and seeings as you have already worked out that i'm a new user and not use to navigating around the site, i find it doubly surprising that you couldn't figure out i wasn't responding to you.

And i'm not even going to respond to the simpsons statement, your just not worth the effort:eek:

Completey fine with me my dear. If you are going to answer someone else's post, just a tip, "quote them". I makes it much easier to know who you are speaking of, and who you are disagreeing with!

I'm worth every second of effort I have put in to this site to help people, and I have gotten many thanks for doing so. You are not yet to be able to say the same. I was quite polite to you. Only asking you to get familiar with the site. Good luck to you!

Thank you, and thanks for the tip.

I'm actually surprised that so many discussions about God happen between atheists and Christians, what do we hope to accomplish by doing this?

Personally I believe in everyone's right to believe whatever they want, I won't try to persuade you to believe in God, if you don't try to persuade me not to. What matters to me is not what you believe, but what kind of person you are, if you're a good person that's all that matters.

Group hug? ;):)

It's not about accomplishing anything, it's about having stimulating conversations. It's about sharing ideas and learing about other people. Most of the people on these boards are firm in the belief or lack thereof; it doesn't mean we can't have civil conversations and learn something from one another.

<<Hug>>

I have read through all of your posts in this thread. I want to say that I am very happy with my beliefs, and I am glad to read others also. However, I do want to say, if not believing in anything makes some people, under a guise of being a non-believer, spew venomous words, and be full of hatred, I will stick to my belief in God. Which incidentally, I would have regardless.

To be fair, there are several theists on this board who do the same thing. There are several who have been banned for being so hateful.


I know this isn't the belief or actions of all atheists, but the two I have encountered on this thread seem to be very self-righteous, and absorbed in a world of their own. They attack others on a personal level, and act like school yard kids.

Thank you for distinguishing between the ones who behave this way and the ones who don't; I agree with you! Some people need to grow up! :)

I could just as easily say the correlative: The religious try so hard to convince others of their faith because deep down they don't really believe.
And it would be just as 'true.'

Here is that irony again. You (an athiests) are the one who is here promoting your atheistic Darwinistic beliefs on a religious forum. So how is it that you claim we are the ones trying to convince you of our faith?? I don't get it.. lol seriously. You voluteered yourself to come on a religious discussion so its not like relgious people are the ones going on atheist forums to promote their beliefs.
So really, maybe the reason why you athiests are here is to try and convince us of your faith because deep down you don't really believe there is no god.

Hello everyone,
Having read all the posts on this board, I now feel terribly sad... I can see quite clearly now, how all the religious wars began... which were also quite unnecessary.



Blessings

Hello:

I think Orphan is right. Religion HAS caused lots of wars...

And, that's exactly why THIS atheist is here. Yes, it's true, 97% of the worlds population are believers. But, if I can convince one of them that what they believe is hooey, then I've done my job towards world peace.

See? It has NOTHING to do with religion.

excon

Yes, it's true, 97% of the worlds population are believers.A little less than that:
Major Religions Ranked by Size (http://adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html)

Wow sassyT, you're a very angry young Christian, you need to get some help.

Im sorry you got that impression but it is actually quite the contrary.. I am a very happy Christian and was under the impression that I could come one a religious forum to have civil discussions on religion with other believers of different religions. Well, I was wrong because religious forums seem to be full of (ironically), for the most part, angry athiests who want who are just here to convince believers that they are "illogical"," irrational" and stupid for believing in god in an effort to propagate and promote their own atheistic beliefs.


First you say that you 'never said this was a religious forum' and then you start the next sentence with 'this is a religious forum', then you verbally attack some poor guy for responding to a question you specifically designed to be answered by atheists.

You are mistaken. Go back and read what I said. I said "i never said this was a Christian forum" But yes I did say it is a religious forum because indeed it is.


What is your deal? Your obviously looking for an argument and then running into playing the victim, if your representing Christians in this OPEN forum, then your really giving them a bad rep.

Like I said before... If athiests like yourself think they can come on a religious forum to insult, mock and make condescending remarks about religion and think that I am going to be quite and take the abuse they better ask somebody.. lol
Being a Christian does not mean you let people walk all over you. We still have the right to stand up for ourselves especially from all the HATE speech we experience on this site.


At first I felt a little sad for you being harassed whilst trying to speak to other like minded people on these religious forums- but now I can see that you're the one creating all the problems.

Again you are sadly mistaken. The Problem is athiests like Cred. And a few others who from day one have been terrorising and harassing Believers. I have had normal civil discussions with people like Lobroster(atheist) who I don't have a problem with. I am the most outspoken believer here because I don't stay silent when my religion is attacked, so naturally all the athiests here hate me but I don't really care. :cool: :)

Also, you say 'Almost 80% of Americans are Christians', this reminds me of a poster in the Simpsons, it read: 50 million smokers can't be wrong!

Ha ha ha ha, and by the way Unicorns never used rhetoric to commit genocide.

Just because America was founded by Christian people doesn't make it a Christian country, thats why your bill of rights gives all Americans religious freedom.

If you really want to live as a true Christian you'd move out of the USA and to the middle east where Christianity begun.

You obviously have some serious anger issues.. but I will just let it go. :rolleyes:

But yes i did say it is a religious forum because indeed it is.Please see Post # 68 (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religious-discussions/atheists-why-religious-forums-241644-7.html#post1180258) on this thread.

Sassy enough! This is a religious discussion board, not the Christianity board. From my understanding (I was told by the mods) this forum was set up specifically for Atheists and other people who did not have a specific forum to go to. There is a Christianity board, and other religious boards, this one is for discussion, for anyone, and everyone. If you only wanted Christians to answer your post then you should have posted on the Christiantiy board. But you posted here and asked atheists to join in, so why are you complaining that they're here?

Please try to have a rational discussion about different beliefs, allot of us have already managed to do that, there are just a few that want to continue to fight.

I have some questions, one for Sassy and two for everyone.

Sassy, Do you include creationism and antievolutionary biology are part of your religious belief? That is, if you criticize evolution and someone criticizes your argument, do you feel that's an attack on your religion?

My second question is for everyone: Do you believe that religious Freedom includes the right to not practice any religion, i.e. atheism and agnosticism or simple nonreligiousness? Or does that seem objectionable to you?

And, in a related vein, if it's polite to not make fun of someone's religious beliefs or criticize them, is it also part of being polite to not criticize atheists for lack of belief? Or do you think those things are really different?

Hello asking:

Well, maybe you should have started your own thread. Anyhow, I'll answer:

There is a difference between criticism and making fun of somebody - a BIG difference. As a matter of fact, it's that difference that causes problems. One is attacking someone's belief, which is what we're here to do, and one is attacking the other person, which we are NOT here to do.

If people could tell the difference, it would be a lot more peaceful around here - indeed, in the whole world.

That was the second question. Here's the answer to the first: If you are NOT free to practice NOTHING, then you're NOT free at all.

excon

Sassy enough! This is a religious discussion board, not the Christianity board. From my understanding (I was told by the mods) this forum was set up specifically for Atheists and other people who did not have a specific forum to go to. There is a Christianity board, and other religious boards, this one is for discussion, for anyone, and everyone. If you only wanted Christians to answer your post then you should have posted on the Christiantiy board. But you posted here and asked atheists to join in, so why are you complaining that they're here?

Please try to have a rational discussion about different beliefs, allot of us have already managed to do that, there are just a few that want to continue to fight.

Alternweg, why are you misinterpreting what I am saying? Of course I have no problems with Atheists coming on this religious forums as long as they are here to have civil discussions with us and not make attacks insults and condesceding remarks.

Altenweg, you came into this later in the game that's why you don't understand what I am talking about. Since I have been on this forum I have seen some (not all) atheists call Christian/religious people names like "Ignorant", "Uneducated", reference to our input as "religious babble""Hot AIR" even "Bull S**t" just to name a few.
Some athiests have said believing in God is like believing in the "Boogeyman".. I think that is an insulting thing to say about someone's religion don't you think?
One guy here said Christians are nothing but a "political party engaged in such nasty organized behavior"
This all sounds like bigoted hate speech to me...
So my deal is, if atheists want to come and discuss religion they should learn to respect other people's beliefs and some athiests here may not agree but they are respectful which I appreciate.
So this post is specifically directed to the rowdy ones.

[QUOTE=asking]I have some questions, one for Sassy and two for everyone.

Sassy, Do you include creationism and antievolutionary biology are part of your religious belief? That is, if you criticize evolution and someone criticizes your argument, do you feel that's an attack on your religion?

Asking you and I have had heated but civil debates about evolution vs Creation and I have no problems with you because even though we don't agree you have never resorted to attacks and name calling as some of the people on this site.
So no, I do not at all take offense to constructive criticism of my arguments. I understand we all don't agree and the best thing we can do is present our side of the argument. Which I do and anyone is free to agree or refute it. No problem, that's all part of the fun of debates. But it is when people run out of intelligent things to say and resort to play ground name calling and mudslinging and attacking one's religion.
As I have said before, I disbeliefe in the theory of evolution is independent of my religious belief, it just based on the fact that I have not seen any conclusive evidence that I find satisfactory to qualify the theory as fact. So I don't know why when I refute evolution I get attacks from athiests calling my argument religious babble but at the same time they can not prove macro evolution. I just don't get it.. :(

Sassy, biologists view creationism as a religious argument, since there is no known scientific basis for creationism. Even the conservative Republican judge in the Dover case concluded that creationism and intelligent design were, at heart, religious arguments. That's the view of people who accept modern biological thought on evolution.

I have no problem with your viewing your belief in creationism as separate from your personal religious beliefs, but I think a lot of the confusion may arise from people assuming that your attacks on evolution are religious dogma, which leads to religious arguments. I don't think anyone enjoys those much.

It is frustrating for some of us to have to defend something that we view as proved (evolution) from someone like yourself who knows "just enough to be dangerous." That is, I feel macroevolution has been proved and I have presented some of the evidence in other threads.

You have said you are not personally satisfied with any evidence for evolution--although I have to say that biology for the last 100 years IS satisfied, so this lack of satisfaction with the evidence is particular to you and other people who are mostly not practicing biologists. I have asked you what sort of evidence could satisfy you as to the truth of evolution, but if you answered, I didn't see it. I feel that a serious conversation about evolution would have to start with that, because I can't keep guessing what evidence might satisfy you. If your discussion of evolution is in fact a scientific discussion (and not religious), then it's incumbent on you to state your terms--that is, what would it take to prove that new species can form?

Alternweg, why are you misinterpreting what i am saying? Ofcourse i have no problems with Atheists coming on this religious forums as long as they are here to have civil discussions with us and not make attacks insults and condesceding remarks.

Altenweg, you came into this later in the game thats why you dont understand what i am talking about. Since i have been on this forum i have seen some (not all) atheists call Christian/religious people names like "Ignorant", "Uneducated", refference to our input as "religious babble""Hot AIR" even "Bull S**t" just to name a few.
Some athiests have said believing in God is like believing in the "Boogeyman".. i think that is an insulting thing to say about someone's religion dont you think?
One guy here said Christians are nothing but a "political party engaged in such nasty organized behavior"
This all sounds like bigoted hate speach to me...
So my deal is, if atheists want to come and discuss religion they should learn to respect other people's beliefs and some athiests here may not agree but they are respectful which i appreciate.
So this post is specifically directed to the rowdy ones.

Sassy, I have been on this site much longer than you, and I have fought with certain people about religion before you even came on this site, so no, I did not come into the game later, I've been here all along, and I know what happens on these threads.

You question atheists rights to come on religious boards, I'm trying to explain to you that this particular board, The religious Discussions board, was started for atheists (that's what I was told), so that they would have a place to talk about their beliefs. So, having said that, you are posting on their board, not the other way around, understand? If you had posted this on the Christian discussion board then you might have a case, but even then it's doubtful because you specifically asked atheists to answer your thread. Be careful what you ask for, you might get it. ;)

We all have to learn to respect each other, it's not just the atheists, it's the Christians too, until that happens, there will not be a rational calm discussion about our different beliefs.

Don't judge a whole group on a few people.

I know that you are very passionate about this, but you have to calm down, read everything that is said as a statement, not an attack against you personally. Okay?

The problem is that Sassyt's views are religious dogma and no physical evidence will satisfy her.

As we increase education and access to the new ideas and the internet. You will see fewer and fewer fundamentalist.

Also SassyT christians come to atheists forums as well and are often very rude.
EvilBible.com Discussion Forum &bull; View topic - Why do so many christians come here? (http://www.evilbible.com/BB3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=4365)

Maybe that's why I don't mind discussing this with rational people, because my beliefs aren't as "set in stone" as others.

I've said many times that I do believe in God, but not the bible and not church, so that makes me possibly the strangest believer in this group.

I have no problem talking with people who don't believe, in fact I have many friends on this site and off that are atheists.

I do have a problem with people who only want to fight, name call and make fun of others beliefs, those are the people I butt heads with, because I don't like their attitude, it has nothing to do with their beliefs.

Michealb, I know that I could have a rational discussion with you, and most of the other non believers on this site, it's just a few people who ruin it for everyone.

In all fairness, if anyone should get off this thread it's probably me, I'm not a Christian, nor am I an atheist, I am what I am and believe what I believe and I'm never met anyone with the same beliefs I have.

[QUOTE=asking]Sassy, biologists view creationism as a religious argument, since there is no known scientific basis for creationism. Even the conservative Republican judge in the Dover case concluded that creationism and intelligent design were, at heart, religious arguments. That's the view of people who accept modern biological thought on evolution.

You can say Creation is religion if you want to that is your opionion and I will not argue with that... As I have said before Creation is not Science niether is the Theory of evolution. The essence of the scientific method is measurement, observation and repeatability. Neither Creation nor Evolution are scientific in this sense. Neither one can be tested, for the simple reason that we cannot repeat history. The origin of the universe, life and mankind all took place in the past and cannot be studied or repeated in the laboratory. No one, in all human history has ever observed macro evolution taking place anywhere not even in the fossil record.
Therefore belief in the theory of evolution is thus exactly parallel to belief in special creation.. both are concepts which believers "know" to be true but neither, up to the present, has been capable of conclusive irrefutable proof.
So if you say Creation is religion then I will also say Macro Evolution is religion since there is no known scientific basis MACRO evolution.



I have no problem with your viewing your belief in creationism as separate from your personal religious beliefs, but I think a lot of the confusion may arise from people assuming that your attacks on evolution are religious dogma, which leads to religious arguments. I don't think anyone enjoys those much.

It is frustrating for some of us to have to defend something that we view as proved (evolution) from someone like yourself who knows "just enough to be dangerous." That is, I feel macroevolution has been proved and I have presented some of the evidence in other threads.

I find it irrational that all the Darwinists like yourself continue to claim Macro evolution is a fact and yet all of you have failed to provide the irrefutable evidence for it. All the so called evidence you have given me supports MICRO evolution. Yes a dog and wolg share a common ancestor (micro) but I am yet to see evidence to the leap of faith made by darwinists that the dog and the wolf also share a common ancestor with carots, bees, palm trees etc.
So please I urge you to stop making empty claims. There is irrefutable evidence for Micro evolution.. we all know that occurs. It is observed in nature and in laboratories.. however there is zero evidence of a promordial soup where an amoeba crawls out and is supposedly the mother of all living things. These are BELIEFS not facts.



You have said you are not personally satisfied with any evidence for evolution--although I have to say that biology for the last 100 years IS satisfied, so this lack of satisfaction with the evidence is particular to you and other people who are mostly not practicing biologists. I have asked you what sort of evidence could satisfy you as to the truth of evolution, but if you answered, I didn't see it. I feel that a serious conversation about evolution would have to start with that, because I can't keep guessing what evidence might satisfy you. If your discussion of evolution is in fact a scientific discussion (and not religious), then it's incumbent on you to state your terms--that is, what would it take to prove that new species can form?

I will address this in a diffent post...

In all fairness, if anyone should get off this thread it's probably me, I'm not a Christian, nor am I an atheist, I am what I am and believe what I believe and I'm never met anyone with the same beliefs I have.

Well, I hope you don't! Your posts are great. :)

I feel like I have my own beliefs and values, too; they just don't include a deity. Yours apparently do, which is fine with me. How could it be otherwise? I don't think anyone can object to what's in someone else's mind or heart. My take is that we can only legitimately object to what people do, and even then only when it affects others, not what people think or feel...

[
QUOTE=michealb]The problem is that Sassyt's views are religious dogma and no physical evidence will satisfy her.


Niether is there any physical evidence for Macro Evolution. So why you continue to claim it is a fact is beyond me.

I have been puzzling over Cred's seeming assertion that he has no beliefs at all, in the sense of faith based ideas accepted without any evidence. I have been wondering if it's possible for humans to only think and not have beliefs. If I have beliefs, what are they? I don't regard my attitudes towards science as faith based, since I think there is ample evidence that science is a productive process that leads to increases in knowledge over time. My acceptance of evolution is based on evidence, though ultimately one has to accept some amount of authority for any fact one accepts. A scientific article has been vetted by reviewers and a journal editor and I accept them as limited authorities, if not for the conclusions of the paper, at least for its authenticity as real science. Usually, that's a safe assumption.

But, anyway, perhaps I believe in other things in the same way that others believe in God. I'm not sure what those things are though...

Well, I hope you don't! Your posts are great. :)

I feel like I have my own beliefs and values, too; they just don't include a deity. Yours apparently do, which is fine with me. How could it be otherwise? I don't think anyone can object to what's in someone else's mind or heart. My take is that we can only legitimately object to what people do, and even then only when it affects others, not what people think or feel...


Thanks asking, I feel the same way about your posts. :)

My belief is based on the way I was raised and the things I have gone through in my life, as well as the things my parents went through. I don't expect others to believe what I believe.

You are right, you cannot object to what's in someone else's mind or heart. A bad person is a bad person, whether they are Christian or atheist, it's not their beliefs that make them bad, or good. So, if you are a good person, a reasonable person, then I really don't care if you don't have the same beliefs I do, I will respect you for who and what you are, not for what you believe. :)

Unfortunately not all people can accept people with differing views or beliefs, they feel the need to force you to see their point of view, to believe what they believe, those are the people I usually end up fighting with. I'd love to be able to walk away from that, but I can't, I'm a stubborn person, I'll be the first to admit that. ;)

I have been puzzling over Cred's seeming assertion that he has no beliefs at all, in the sense of faith based ideas accepted without any evidence.

I'm sure he believes in himself, and there's no evidence to support that. :p

Sassy, I have been on this site much longer than you, and I have fought with certain people about religion before you even came on this site, so no, I did not come into the game later, I've been here all along, and I know what happens on these threads.

You question atheists rights to come on religious boards, I'm trying to explain to you that this particular board, The religious Discussions board, was started for atheists (that's what I was told), so that they would have a place to talk about their beliefs. So, having said that, you are posting on their board, not the other way around, understand? If you had posted this on the Christian discussion board then you might have a case, but even then it's doubtful because you specifically asked atheists to answer your thread. Be careful what you ask for, you might get it. ;)

We all have to learn to respect eachother, it's not just the atheists, it's the Christians too, until that happens, there will not be a rational calm discussion about our different beliefs.

Don't judge a whole group on a few people.

I know that you are very passionate about this, but you have to calm down, read everything that is said as a statement, not an attack against you personally. Okay?

I don't think you are being fair in what you are saying... I don't take things personaly but when people make attacks like calling religious people "uneducated" "ignorant" and all the names they have been called be sure that I will say something about it.
So apparently (correct me if I am wrong) you are taking sides with the people who make rude condescending remarks about religion which is fine, but don't say that this is AN ATHEIST forum as if it gives athiests the right to barade religion.
This is a RELIGION forum.. It is for discussing religion..
It is not an Atheist forum where angry athiests can come and give their Hate speech against religious people which is what this forum has turned into.
Unless if you are saying atheism is a religion. :confused:

Unless if you are saying atheism is a religion.Ok, it is a religion then. I'm OK with that. I don't care what *you* call it.

Unfortunately not all people can accept people with differing views or beliefs, they feel the need to force you to see their point of view, to believe what they believe, those are the people I usually end up fighting with. I'd love to be able to walk away from that, but I can't, I'm a stubborn person, I'll be the first to admit that. ;)

Yes! That's how I feel when all the Darwinists on this site can't accept that I don't believe in Darwinism. They feel the need to force their point of view on me and when I don't accept it they freak out.

Yes! thats how i feel when all the Darwinists on this site can't accept that i dont believe in Darwinism. They feel the need to force their point of view on me and when i dont accept it they freak out.

Sassy, you don't believe in Darwinism, and you freak out, so do you really expect them to not freak out when you poo poo on their beliefs? You are also trying to force your point of view on them. Don't you see that?

You really have to see that you are doing exactly what you say they are doing. If you cannot listen to someone's point of view without freaking out, then don't discuss that with them.

You started this thread, really, I want to know what you hoped to accomplish.

I dont think you are being fair in what you are saying... I dont take things personaly but when people make attacks like calling religious people "uneducated" "ignorant" and all the names they have been called be sure that i will say something about it.
So apparently (correct me if i am wrong) you are taking sides with the people who make rude condescending remarks about religion which is fine, but dont say that this is AN ATHEIST forum as if it gives athiests the right to barade religion.
This is a RELIGION forum.. It is for discussing religion..
It is not an Atheist forum where angry athiests can come and give their Hate speach against religious people which is what this forum has turned into.
Unless if you are saying atheism is a religion. :confused:

OMG, for the last time, yes, it's called a religious discussion board, but it was started for atheists, that way they don't have to come to the Christian discussion board to discuss their points of view. Do you understand now? Maybe the mods should rename it, would it be clear then?

As for name calling, honey, I've been called a lying b*tch, the intolerance brigade, a dirty liar, and many more, but it's only one person, you can't judge an entire group by one person.

Have you been reading some of the discussions? We are actually doing pretty well talking about our different points of view. You cannot let the past go and have to start a fight, not good. If it's discussion that you want, well that goes two ways, you have to be willing to listen to someone else's point of view without taking it personally.

As for the atheists turning this into a place for hate speech, honey they aren't the only ones.

Great now you're trying to get me to fight you, and I'm falling for it, bad Alty. Sassy, just treat everyone like you would want to be treated, then you'll do fine. Okay?

Sassy,. . .You started this thread, really, I want to know what you hoped to accomplish.

Me, too.
Sassy, how were you hoping this would go?

You have said you are not personally satisfied with any evidence for evolution--although I have to say that biology for the last 100 years IS satisfied, so this lack of satisfaction with the evidence is particular to you and other people who are mostly not practicing biologists. I have asked you what sort of evidence could satisfy you as to the truth of evolution, but if you answered, I didn't see it. I feel that a serious conversation about evolution would have to start with that, because I can't keep guessing what evidence might satisfy you. If your discussion of evolution is in fact a scientific discussion (and not religious), then it's incumbent on you to state your terms--that is, what would it take to prove that new species can form?

Asking you don't need to prove that New species do form because that is an irrefutable FACT.
It is a FACT which constitutes Micro evolution however Macro evolution claims that NEW never seen before GENERA form. That is what I would like evidence for.
Random mutation do occur that may cause a variation; for example a random mutation in Human hair may creat hair of a different color or texture however is there any evidence that a random mutation in human can create feathers or tenticles? The answer to that question is NO. If macro evolution were true.. Scientist would be able to observe mutations that add "new" information to a species like my example; a baby born with feathers or tenticles instead of hair.
So please don't confuse micro with macro. Micro is a fact so new species do form however I am yet to see evidence that new never seen genera do form.(macro)

So my question is where is this so called evidence for MACRO evolution.

That's enough.
As this thread has seriously degenerated I am closing it.
If you have a problem with this PM me.

>Thread Closed<