Hello everyone
I have a quick question. One of the pipes which is attached to our furnace and leads outside cracked about 8 months ago. The repairman came and took care of it using waterproof adhesive sealant. A few weeks ago, another repairman came to clean up a natural gas leak and I asked him to inspect our heater. He inspected and told me that it hadn't been repaired correctly. I asked him what to do, who to call, etc. but he got a call and ran off.
Anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do?
Thanks

If it's a duct "leading outside", you should find
1. one going to your chimney that vents the exhaust, and
2. newer systems have one leading outside that is actually additional cold air intake.

If it's an intake, you can use good duct tape with no problems at all. If it's the one venting exhaust, then you should replace the section that is cracked.

Thanks rickj for the quick reply

The pipe that I'm referring to is the one venting exhaust, but it leads out the side wall. I'll try to post a pic.
So I should only replace the portion that's cracked and not replace it altogether? Does it pose any health risks?
Thanks again

Yes, absolutely, on the health risks. That exhaust is heavy carbon monoxide... and gets real hot, which is why you can't just use duct tape on it.

... and yes, a digital pic will be helpful.

(The upload option (called Manage Attachments) is visible once you click on the Answer this Question button).

But wouldn't heavy co kill you in a matter of minutes? Also, my co detector doesn't go off. I do however have trouble sleeping at home. During my spring break, I slept over at a couple of friends houses and I slep like a baby but at home, I have poor sleep.
Thanks again

With just a crack, most of the CO is going out... but at the same time you don't want to say "oh well, a little extra CO won't hurt me". I don't use a CO detector so don't know about the levels they detect, or how much CO is actually going into your home, but replacing the section of that duct will probably cost you under $10 and take you less than 1/2 hour to do... A cheap way to reduce the potential harm of the situation.

Do, though, post a pic if you can so we can take a look - and be sure we're all on the same page.

You, that's true. Well, I live in a townhouse and my dad is renting it. Our landlord also inspected the furnace two weeks ago and he said that everything is fine. I told him about the repairman who pointed out that the crack hadn't been sealed properly but he simply brushed out off and insisted that everything is fine.
I'll try to borrow my cos' digital cam and post a pic.
I appreciate your help rickj,thanks

I can tell you this: If the city knew there was a crack in a furnace exhaust duct, they'd probably issue a 24-hour emergency order to have it taken care of.

In my city they are quite serious about that kind of thing.

(I'm not suggesting you call the city; it makes for a bad relationship... but Definitely tell him you know that there is a health risk and to please take care of it asap. Since you've gone nearly 8 months with it like that, I'd think no risk to give the landlord a couple days before you start to get a little huffy with him.

Thanks rickj and tkrussell
How do I call the city? I live in canada, who exactly do I call.
Actually, for the past year, my health has been detoriating. I've been to the doctor about 5 times and he keeps telling me that my symptoms are due to my thyroid disorder. And yet every time I do a blood test, the results come back normal (I'm on synthroid right now).
I think I can say the same for the rest of my family as well. We all have very poor sleep, have memory problems (my memory used to be great), trouble breathing, and a host of other problems. Can this all be the result of our faulty furnace?
Also, the repairman said that eventually water will start to drip out of the cracked pipe because it hasn't been sealed properly.
Take care

Water dripping out of the pipe? Hold the phone. Now it doesn't sound like an exhaust duct. Water would not be coming out of an exhaust duct.

Regardless of what it is, you should let the landlord know that it needs fixed asap... and that you don't want to ruin the relationship, but will call the city for an inspection if it is not taken care of within 2 days.

... or post a pic for us to direct you more specifically...

Your symptoms sure sounds like CO poisioning to me.

Water can be dripping out of the duct, due to condensation of moisture in the flue gases, and this water is what probably caused the corrision of the duct.

Contact your city hall, or even a local fire dept, and ask how to get in touch with the appropriate agency that handles code enforement of exhaust ducts for a furnace.

Yikes!!
That's pretty scary, innit? We better abandon this house immediately.
Man, I'm so upset right now. My landlord had our natural gas appliances inspected twice over the past year, but he reported that everything was fine.
So if you're exposed to small amounts of co for a long period, it won't kill you but it will harm your health?

From the EPA site:
http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/coftsht.html#CO%20Poisoning%20Symptoms

I found the following:

CO Poisoning Symptoms

Know the symptoms of CO poisoning. At moderate levels, you or your family can get severe headaches, become dizzy, mentally confused, nauseated, or faint. You can even die if these levels persist for a long time. Low levels can cause shortness of breath, mild nausea, and mild headaches, and may have longer term effects on your health. Since many of these symptoms are similar to those of the flu, food poisoning, or other illnesses, you may not think that CO poisoning could be the cause.

And here from http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/466.html


What are the symptoms of CO poisoning?

The initial symptoms of CO poisoning are similar to the flu (but without the fever). They include:

* Headache
* Fatigue
* Shortness of breath
* Nausea
* Dizziness

If any of these are familiar then you need to get checked and have the duct checked.

If there is a gap that allows flue gases to leak then there is a serious problem. Any corrision will continue more quick than you think, with the water, heat, and already correded sheetmetal.

If this is a very long vent pipe or if it was installed wrong it is very possible that the water dripping you are talking about is condensation forming in the long vent pipe. The hot air coming out of the furnace and traveling through the vent pipe is very hot as it leves the furnace and as it travels through the vent it cools and the moisture in the air begins to condense on the wall of the vent pipe and then run out the crack. It is very possibloe that the condensation is what made the crack in the first place. CO is very dangerous and can accumialte in your blood over time. Go to a medical web site and read up on it, look at the symptoms.

Thanks everyone for the quick responses, I appreciate it
If I get a blood test done, will it show the co levels? Can you guys tell me if any other gases are bing emitted through the crack.
Do you guys think I can take legal action against the inspectors or my landlord and would you recommend it? Like I said, my health is getting worse, I'm having difficulty reading and writing, which I thought was associated with my thyroid disorder, and many other problems. My grades are pretty bad, even though I try to study, but most of the time I don't have the energy. I had pretty good grades in high school.
I'll try to post my pic so you have a better idea of what's going on with my furnace
Take care everyone

I am not sure how CO is detected in the body, but getting checked by a doctor will be the best bet.

Then if it is determined that there is CO absorbed, next contact an attorney for the best path you should proceed to next.

Thanks tkrussell and letmetellu for your feedback
So you guys think it`s due to low levels of carbon monoxide? tkrussell, I read on of the websites you provided that the chances of detecting carbon monoxide in your blood are low? Got any idea why?
And yeah, the symptoms apply to me and the rest of my family as well. I`m going to call my doc today. In the meantime, I`m going to convince my dad to leave the house, and call an inspector. Do you guys recommend calling the landlord to inspect the house or finding one in the yellow pages? As I said before, my landlord has done a very poor job of ensuring we`re safe.
Take care everyone

I took some pics of my furnace, but I'm unable to upload them because they're too big, about 1600x1200. Anyone know how to reduce the size?
thanks

No responses?
Can someone please answer my last question? Thanks

It's a software issue: Do you have any Photo Editing software? If not, here's one method:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=15873

Thanks fred
Here r the pics:

I only see evidence of a cracked exhaust vent in the first one... and it's coming off your water tank, not your furnace (same problem, though, with either).

Is there something in the 2nd two pics we should be noticing also?

Sorry for taking so long to respond. I've been busy with exams and assignments. Rickj, the crack I'm talking about is in the second picture. It's on the top left hand corner. The repairman applied white adhesive on it and apparently that didn't not solve the problem, according to the inspector.
There's a cracked exhaust vent coming out the water tank as well?:eek:
What should I do about that?
Also in the third pic, you can see rust on the base of the furnace. The inspector said it was due to the cracked pipe.
Thanks again

I hope tk will "pipe in" :p on this one and give his take: That pipe in the 2nd pic is plastic... so definitely not exhaust... but frankly, I don't know what it is.

I can't tell if that duct over the water tank is OK or not. If that goo in the joints is made for exhaust ducts, then it might be OK... that is, if it's sealed good.

In the first picture, the 2 black PVC pipes coming out of the top of the furnace are the fresh air intake for combustion and the other is for hot gas exhaust. Both go outside. This is a 90%+ efficiency furnace. The part with the sealant on it is the draft motor exhaust piping. This basically provides fresh air to the burners for combustion. You should not see any problems with carbon monoxide due to the sealer on this piping, as it is not exhaust gas related... It should be replaced correctly, though...

Thanks you guys for your help
rickdb1, you said the 2 black pipes coming out of the furnace are for fresh air intake, then which leasd the exhaust outside?
The second inspector actually said the opposite of what you said. He told me that our furnace was an older model and that it should be replaced soon. Maybe he's on commission?
Thanks again

The inspector does not get commission to report a defective unit, and possibly save someone from injury.

And any inspector that can be proven to be fraudulent or taking kickbacks will be subject to criminal charges.

Appears you misread rickdb1's answer:

"the 2 black PVC pipes coming out of the top of the furnace are the fresh air intake for combustion and the other is for hot gas exhaust. Both go outside."

Notice I said "Condensing", this can be an added source of moisture causing the corrosion of the furnace.

As he stated, this is a high efficiency unit,called a Condensing Furnace, one of the plastic pipes is for exhaust,

Plastic pipe can be used for the combustion gases exhaust because the furnace extracts so much of the heat, the exhaust is only warm, but still lethal with the all the normal combustion gases.

You, he most likely doesn't.
I've been pretty busy these last few weeks and my brain is fried, so my bad for misreading rick's post.
So the cracked pipe is not for hot gat exhaust, but I should get it replaced immediately? And it doesn't pose any health hazards? An inspector is going to come in tomorrow and inspect the furnace and water heater. What kinds for questions should I ask him?
Sorry if I sound like a noob, I don't know anything about these things.
Later

Since the plastic pipe that is cracked is for fresh air intake into the furnace, I do not believe that it is an immediate concern.

However the flue pipe for the water heater that is cracked, thou sealed, needs to be replaced, along with any corroded metal flue pipe duct.

To save money, if a repair tech visits to repair the water heater, then it will be cheaper to repair/replace the cracked plastic pipe at the same time, rather than having another visit.

Also any corrosion in the furnace must be checked, and repaired or replaced as necessary.

The inspector stated the furnace needs to be replaced, ask why. Ask how long will it last, when will it need to be replaced.

Who actually owns the home? Who ever is the owner is responsible for paying for the repairs. Will the inspector produce a demand letter or written directive to the owner to effect repairs in a certain time, or the unit will be shut down?

First tech did a repair, second tech tells you the repair is not correct. Ask the inspector if the repair is OK or not OK, and if not OK then what can be done about the first tech that did the improper repair. The first tech should incur some sort of repercussion for performing faulty work.

Ask the inspector about CO poisoning, and if the existing conditions are causing CO to leak into the air that the occupants are breathing.

You state the landlord had the unit(s) inspected recently. Who did the inspection, and passed a faulty condition? This person should be reprimanded also.

14 days has passed since you first asked about this, if there is a chance of CO contamination, I sure hope the heating season is over where you live, to avoid any health problems.

Get back with the results of the inspection, let us know how you make out.

Sorry for taking so long to reply. I had my last few exams last week, and during the weekend I was chilling with my cousins.

Since the plastic pipe that is cracked is for fresh air intake into the furnace...

Didn't the pipe crack because of condensation?

However the flue pipe for the water heater that is cracked, thou sealed, needs to be replaced, along with any corroded metal flue pipe duct.
Do you have any idea why the inspector wouldn't mention this? Should I get the whole pipe replaced?
The inspector stated the furnace needs to be replaced every 8-10 years, depending on the model


Who actually owns the home? Who ever is the owner is responsible for paying for the repairs. Will the inspector produce a demand letter or written directive to the owner to effect repairs in a certain time, or the unit will be shut down?
The owner of the home is our landlord. So if the repairman does the repairs, I should ask for a bill and give it to the landlord?


Ask the inspector about CO poisoning, and if the existing conditions are causing CO to leak into the air that the occupants are breathing.
I'll do that. Actually a little while ago, someone came to test our smoke alarm. I asked him about getting a co detector, but he said there was no need. He said that if there had been a co leak, I wouldn't be talking to him. He was a young guy, probably didn't know what he was talking about.
The company that the landlord hired is called haris or harry, something like that.
The heating season is just about over. We're actually living in our cos' house.

Get back with the results of the inspection, let us know how you make out.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, the inspector arrived more than an hour and a half after he was scheduled to arrive. I waited for him for an hour an a half but I had to leave to write an exam. I called the inspection company a few times but I kept getting a message.

No responses yet?
I've been away for the last few days. A couple friends and cousins and I drove to thunder bay. It took about 13 hours, and we spent more than a week there.
I went hom eht other day and I found that the cracked furnace pipe is in fact the exhaust pipe. I could see the exhaust coming out of it from outside.

Well, I got a repairman to fix the water boiler exhaust pipe. Thanks for the suggestions.
However, I can smell natural gas while I'm in the backyard. It's pretty strong and can be smelt from quite a few meters away. Is this normal? What can I do about it?
Thanks

Call the repair man back, it may be raw gas you smell, or it may be the exhaust fumes you smell, it is worth having it checked to be 100% sure.

Obviously you have a high efficiant furnace,this is plastic pipe right?go to you local hardware store by a new length of pipe,some glue and a coupling.take a piece of the old stuff in so you get the right size.then go to home depot or rona and get a digital readout co detector they seem to pick up lower volumes of co

No, actually the water heater exhause pipe is aluminum, I'm pretty sure.
I told the landlord about this as well, but he shrugged it off. I reminded him that he was wrong before. He responded by saying that it is normal to be smelling it. I seriously feel like I'm talking to a brick wall sometimes. I'll call the inspectors today.

Well, we took care of all the problems including the leak outside. Now we're having trouble getting the landlord to pay for the repairs. He has admitted that he made mistakes dealing with us and there were problems with the water heater and flue pipes.

Hello again. Can you guys look at the first pic that I uploaded again and let me know whether you guys think the water heater flue pipe looks damaged.
I've already replaced it but I need everyone's opinion. Thanks

Well. It looks as though there is no reducer where it attaches to the water heater. And it looks like there is corrosion at the water heater and also at the joints toward the chimney. It looks like a jerry rigged job to me...

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/attachments/heating-air-conditioning/819-cracked-furnace-pipex23964x-img_0160.jpg?d=1144685460

I will be posting some more pix of the flue pipe I replaced. Just got to find them on my comp.

Sorry Rick. If it is a 90% furnace it is vented in PVC pipe. Moisture will deffinatly condesate and drip in the exhaust that is why a 90+ is called a condensing furnace and is vented in PVC. Have the section replaced ASAP.

Oh, just a side note, there where many types of plastic type flue pipes allowed in the USA and where recalled. If this is the case all the pipe needs to be replaced.

He is not talking about the furnace, he is talking about the water heater.

Well. it looks as though there is no reducer where it attaches to the water heater. And it looks like there is corrosion at the water heater and also at the joints toward the chimney. It looks like a jerry rigged job to me....

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/attachments/heating-air-conditioning/819-cracked-furnace-pipex23964x-img_0160.jpg?d=1144685460

What? No draft diverter, How can this draft properly? This would never be allowed by code in my area.

NothernHeat thanks for your input. Man, my landlord is a punk. He just seems to not care whatsoever. I'm thinking of taking legal action.
Well I found the pix. Here they are:

NothernHeat thx for your input. Man, my landlord is a punk. He just seems to not care whatsoever. I'm thinking of taking legal action.
well i found the pix. Here they are:
You should have a CO detector near a bedroom. Call you local building inspector. Heating and air conditioning division. Could be city or county run.

I have a detector which can goes off if there's either co or natural gas present. It's located on the same floor as the furnace and water heater. It hasn't gone if yet, maybe it isn't sensitive enough?

If I take these pix to an inspector/investigator or my lawyer, can they determine from them that the exhaust pipe was damaged?

Read all post but not understanding which vent you replace water heater or furnace. Water heater vent looks like a dual vent ,intake and exhaust, and would be fine if outside is not completely sealed as long as inside is. If you haven't replaced furnace exhaust you need to as soon as possible.

Mike, I've replaced the water heater pipe (aluminum one). Most of the experts suggested that it should be replaced immediately because it wasn't installed properly.

Just an update. Last Tuesday, another inspector came to inspect our new pipes. He told that me that everything looked good. I told him about our previous exhaust pipes and how they had been poorly repaired. He responded by saying that it was the furnace company's responsibility to send them (the repairmen) a replacement pipe. He said that they (furnace comp.) also applied white sealant to the pipes (similiar to what you see in the pix) which sounded strange to me. Why would they if there's no crack to begin with?