Ok here goes, My husband and I have been married for almost 29 years, we have 2 grown children and 2 girls 16 still at home. We have always been considered what other people would call the perfect couple. WE try and go out at least once a week just the two of us, still dancing and dinners and sometimes movies. Our sex life has always been extremely important and satisfing to both of us, generally 2 -3 times a week. However in the last 2 years it has dwindled to less than once in maybe 5 weeks. My husband is a diabetic and has been for almost 49 years since he was 2. Ok yes this could be the major issue here however, he has tried the little blue pill and doesn't like any of the side effects. We have now gotten to the point that we hardly have any conversation at all anymore. There is absolutely no cuddling unless I iniate it and holding hands has gone almost completely out the window. Yes I understand we are 48 and 51 years old but the closeness we have experienced and affection all of our lives has completely gone by the way side. I am really to the point that I am tired of iniating it and pretty much have given up. He knows I am disappointed but seems to think that our 4 children and my girlfriends are enough to sustain my personal relationships. Thank god I have my girlfriends and we actively go out a couple times a week and then our 16 year olds are also my greatest joy in the entire world. I am to the point though that I am totally frustrated and infuriated with him and ready to leave as soon as our twins graduate. My husband has been my life for over 29 years and I have many male friends but never in all this time have I ever felt the need or want to have an affair or leave him.. Please help I am losisng a battle

There are other pills similar to the little blue pill that may have different side effects. Has he tried any of those?

A sudden change in libido could be many things. Is he under more stress than usual? Are there money issues?

The biggest question I have is has he spoken to his doctor about this? There are many issues that could cause a drop in libido that can (and SHOULD) be treated in other ways than the little blue pill. Has he had a prostate exam? His diabetes checked to see if anything has changed? There are too many things to list them all, but the FIRST thing I suggest is that he get a complete medical checkup, and make SURE that he tells his doctor about the drop in libido.

Male diabetics who have had juvenile diabetes since childhood know that their days of natural sexual performance are numbered, that's just the way it is. Didn't you two discuss this health matter before you married? Diabetes damages everything on the inside of a person's body... the less it is controlled, the sooner the damage occurs.

I think you need to go separately to a therapist and discuss your feelings about the lack of a sex life. Don't make a big deal about it; just approach it as a bump in the road that needs attention.

Get help as soon as possible. :)

I'll try and answer all three responses, First no he hasn't tried any of the other pills, his attitude is one didn't work so why should the others. I have tried to no avail to get him to try other forms of these medications. Second Yes he did talk to his doctor and has had numerous checkups that is who prescribed the original viagra for him , but once something doesn't work his patience goes no where. As far as the stress issue, no he switched jobs relatively 2 years ago and this job is so much better for pay and responsibility. He doesn't deal with hardly any stress, meaning with family, money or personal issues because he doesn't discuss any of it. That is one of the main problems.

RE: Choux's question. Yes we discussed this issued well over 29 years ago. However like I stated in over 2 years our problems have come to a complete fiasco. I am sorry but lack of sex is a big deal, telling me not to make a big deal over it is fine. However in 2 years I have been as patient as I can be. I can't continue in a situation where there is no communication, affection, or sexual stimulation, I can't go to a therapist by myself when my trying to solve this on my own will not work. What happened to meeting someone halfway, my husbands theory is that you have to give 100% by both parties all of the time for a marriage to work. That is what we did for 26 years, now I am asked to keep everything inside and not show any emotion or feelings. He has done this total turnaround , and our doctor insists mentally and physically he is fine. His blood sugars are very much within the normal range, and he never misses work or has illnesses that are no very minimal. I am not perfect but please try and understand I have kept this bottled up for over 2 years and I am trying to keep it together until my daughters graduate in 2 years. I cannot destroy the only life they have ever known over my feelings, but if it wasn't for them I would probably be insane, they have very many activities and I am involved in cheerleading, softball, swimming, and coach almost all of their actvities. I have a full time 60 hour a week job, and once they leave and go to college my life cannot be just about work and no home life. I feel terrible believe me that this is what our marriage has come down too

He sounds a little like me in some ways.

I try my best to keep what ever the problem is, totally to myself.

I feel I do it to protect the wife, or whoever, from having to worry about it along with me.

Isn't one person worrying enough? Why should more people worry too?

I am just beginning to realize how crippling that is for my spouse.

How unfair it is to her, and to us.

She can read me like a book, she KNOWS when something isn't right, and she will ask.

I will reply, no honey, everything is fine, but she know better.

Now, not only does she know that there' some type of problem, but she is left to guess or imagine" what the problem could be.

While I'm worried about making the next mortgage payment, she thinks I must be thinking about leaving her!!

How awful that must be, I'm beginning to realize that now, and am trying my best to stop being the keeper of all problems.

It really is about learning to communicate better, and sometimes that means letting our ego down a notch or two. Us men are not very good at that.

The loss of sexual ability is a huge thing for most men, he must really be having a hard time dealing with it. I know how uncomfortable it can be to not be able to preform as you used to or want to, it is devastating.

While the little pills are a help, they tend to make it like a scheduled activity instead of a spontaneous sharing of love and intimacy. If he feels he may have problems in that area, he will probably just avoid those situations rather than to deal with them.

I agree with Choux, (I hate it when that happens) LOL.

You both might benefit from some counseling, separate or together, maybe even a little of both.

Problem is, you both need to agree and accept that it might help. If he feels he's being pushed towards it, he will probably reject or rebel against it.

Yeah, it is an ego thing.

Dear bb,

You need someone to talk to about *your feelings* that are bottled up. A therapist is the best kind of person to talk to. You have to sort this all out for your own peace of mind. :)

You will only drive him further away if you make infuse your anger into your conversations.

I just don't want you to make the situation worse.

I can't tell you what's right or wrong for you. Or for him.

Issues with ED can be tied to one big issue, or many issues whose sum take you to the same place.

Would you say that were he still intimate and connected to you sensually... that is even if life in the bedroom isn't all you dream it to be, you still have his focus, his attention, his desire, and his reaching out for you... that things would be better, even if not great?

He doesn't get a free ride here, but he has some real issues that can cause ED. I had a unique relationship with my grandfather, as my parents and I were born to young parents... meaning the generation gap between us was much more compressed. He was a young grandfather.

So as I matured, and as he was my father figure in reality, I learned much from him, including about sex. I also understand how devastating diabetes and other common issues tied to it, such as vascular problems, can turn a vibrant, charismatic man into much "less" than what he once was. The loss of his ability to perform sexually, I believe, contributed to his overall mental health and "early" death. It wasn't the cause, but I believe it (depression and frustration) expediated the event.

So... I have some empathy for what he might be experiencing. Hell, I can tell you the steel piercing hard ons that I had at 16 were WASTED. Sure I can still perform, but there are changes I've noticed. Some men do. Some lucky ones don't. One man a few months back wrote in here begging for a way to drop his sensitivity because it hadn't changed one iota in decades and was becoming as big a problem in his life as the lack of sex is in yours.

So... he deserves a break to some degree, in my opinion. We get no guarantees when we marry that our bodies will perform lock in step with our partner in the short or long term.

That said... he doesn't get a free ride. The performance anxiety and even depression that can accompany even moderate drops in performance can suddenly shove it into place that is much more pronounced and debilitating. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't be working on what he can fix.

Having been through a spot of depression myself, I know how it can kill libido... and I know I had the ability to seek help.

The things he should be doing... exercising regularly. A study of obese men with ED issues showed a significant % showed improvement with just regular exercise. It should be a part of his daily life, with doctors consent.

Also, its not always true that ED drugs will work for all, even those who are interested, just nonresponsive... but the next thing he should tackle is any mental hangups. ED drugs won't increase your libido and won't make you connect to your partner sensually. He might very well still desire you but feel like he is a constant failure so "better" to avoid the subject than to risk yet another time disappointing you.

That isn't noble. Is isn't satisfactory to either of you. It isn't reason for you to give him an infinite number of chances. It isn't reason for you to just accept it. He has work to do. Though conseling and/or through your communication to him... he has work to do. He needs to own this... and you've been reasonably frustrated by his lack of action here. I have empathy for you in this place. You've been doing the hard mental lifting and he's been shutting things out, as men often do. You deserve more, and he should demand more from himself.

I cannot define where the line is between accepting what might be an eventuality (the loss of performance). Is a man who experiences ED issues any different than a woman who experiences dryness and loss of libido through perimenopause and menopause? In both cases I think the person and the spouse, if they intend to honor their vows, owe it to each other to find middle ground.

So... would it be "enough" were he attentive, playful, and connected... even if sex was not what you hoped it would be... if he was willing to give oral to completion or extra stimulation performed on you while you self stimulated and he was more connected to you through casual and sensual touch... would that be enough for you?

If your answer is "no"... I don't see much future here without some monumental change in his performance or what you'd accept.

If your answer is "yes"... that might be enough to feel the love of the man you married carried through intention, even if not performance, then you both have work to do.

At his age with those problems and married that many years options might be limited. That little blue pill can kill a guy even easier than make him sport a stiffy if he has the wrong medical conditions. He should see a physician again and see if there are issues or any treatments that might be applicable.

Then like has been mentioned there is the physcological end of things... stress and not just work stress. There is a lot of things that can be at play here. Its important to know that no life threatening conditions have cropped up.

In response to KP2171: Yes that would definitely be enough if there was other forms of communication, You have to remember that I've been married for well over 28 years, I know that nothing is perfect and that it takes two people working continually to keep a marriage in tact. I would simply be happy with 25% of the talking and closeness( not so much sex) as hand holding and embracing that we even had 2 years ago. Right now if I get a simple hello or our teenagers were talked to that would be a start. You have to understand that any conversation that is started or any communication is only iniated by me or our kids. They have lived with two parents who truly have been the ideal couple for about 25 years, and even our children are at a loss for what has happened to their father. I have suggested counseling, and more doctors appointments, only to be greeted with our marriage is perfect why would you want to change it. I'm not sure what rose colored glasses he has been wearing.

In response to Progunr: your response was wonderful seriously, However he doesn't have the stress of any of the bills or daily worries. He leaves all that completely up to me , I have unforunately done that the majority of our married life. He did take over the checkbook a few years back when I constantly complained that this should be a joint effort. I seriously got tired of hearing myself complain and started doing it again myself. He doesn't want any of that responsibility. If I lightly drop hints about whether he would prefer doing it this way or that, he just gives me the answer of " You've been doing it this far so good so why change a good thing" Unfortunately it is his good thing, since I have 90% of the responbility and all of the worry. Our twin daughters age 16 don't even try and ask him for permission to do anything, his response is check with your mom. If I am at work, like at 6am before they leave for school and he is still with them until 7am they still call me because he will not solve even the simpliest of problems.

You have my applause because you understand your mistakes and are trying to correct them, your wife is a very lucky individual. You can quote that to her if you would like. Good luck in trying to make it right. That is half the battle. If he would meet me 1/3 of the way I could live with that. Thanks guys ( and girls) for helping me and answering I look forward to hearing more

Thanks for coming back and giving feedback. Some people post and disappear, and its nice to know our efforts to help are being heard and thought about, even if this is really all about you and your concerns.

Well I asked the questions I asked because I thought this might be the case... that you need an intimate connection with this man, and sex is one of many ways he could engage you and show it. You are missing sensuality, which can overlap, but not necessarily mean, sexuality.

So you are roommates now. I have an aunt who is very much in your same position. Her two boys are just now out of the house, and the years in which she thought shed be living life as a married couple after 20 years of kids in the home, she finds that he really has no interest in doing things "together"... they did things together before because the events we kid centered. Games, school, etc. now that its an empty nest, he's fine puttering in the garage alone. Fine if she wants to leave town and visit places as long as she doesn't demand his presence.

Not the same, but still... roommates at best.

If he refuses counseling (which he does) and you wish to wait things out, what do you think about a separation? I know with the hurt and frustration you might be ready to throw your hands in the air and waste no more time... just a question.

I wonder what's changed in the last two years? Any friends who have passed? Who have left their wives?

Sorry you are in this place. Wish hed open up more and at least talk about where his mind is.

Have you asked him if there is someone else? Be sure there is no affair going on. If he refuses counseling, go for yourself. It works miracles. Sorry you're so sad.

Abbymimi:I sort of wish there was someone else that I could blame besides him. However no there is definitely not someone else. He doesn't leave the house unless it's with me or the kids. He calls if he is going to be even 5 minutes late, and he only goes to an all guy environment at work. Believe me when I say no other women ( or man ) would put up with his lack of communication or affection. He really has no male or female friends unless they are my friend's husbands or work related guys and he only works with about 5 other men. If he would get involved with a few friends I would be greatly relieved and know he's starting to return to the normal loving guy I married

In response to kp2171: I know a separation is probably a good choice, however right now I also have to daughters that are juniors this year to consider. My life right now revolves around them and my friends. However I know they see the change and also their dad isn't relating to them either. I'm just not sure that a separation would be in their best interests right now, by uprooting them from our home, where we have lots of entertaining of friends right now over the summer months, and take away their privleges of separate rooms and all the extras that go with it. He would never move out and let the girls and our son live in the house. I know it makes me sound Like I am being selfish for their sake, but we live in a small community where housing in our school district is at a very minimal. Our one daughter is on the variety squad for cheer and she has worked hard to become captain, so then I don't know if I could forgive myself for making complete changes that would directly affect them. I have to find a happy medium for right now, at least until they go off to college in about 20 months. God that seems like a lifetime to live like I have be living, but I don't see any alternative . Don'[t get me wrong, I am very unhappy, but to disrupt my daughters lives is something I may not be able to live with myself over. I wish my moral values sometimes weren't so strong, because an affair is something I can't even consider. I've got to keep my head I guess to the grindstone and beating a dead horse. I certainly can't beat any sense into him right now. Keep talking, I enjoy the conversation.. thanks again really

I know a separation is probably a good choice, however right now I also have to daughters that are juniors this year to consider...
you don't have to explain it too much to me. Both my wife and I made deliberate sacrifices to be present in my step daughters life when she was in HS. It is a time when they sometimes don't want anything to do with you, but when they need you or want you it is NOW that they need you. The things we sacrificed were well worth being present and available in her life.

it's a fine line to walk, what you are willing to do for your child's well being and what you need to do for yours... I usually say a responsible parent will make proper decisions that the child may not like, but will be good in the long run, even if its uncomfortable. But in this case its really not too tough of an argument... time is short with them as juniors, and senior year is gone in a breath. And you staying also gives him a chance to do the right thing... and that's all a person can expect. The opportunity to do what is right. If he doesn't take it, he cannot blame the distance on anyone but himself.

just don't put it (a separation or whatever the next big move is) off for them and then decide, as they transition into the next phase, which might mean college or not, that you should still stay to give them stability during that phase.

something you might be able to do in the meantime is begin to work through this by perhaps some reading. Check out gary chapman's The Five Love Languages. It talks about how couples can sometimes be expressing affection in ways that are completely missed...

for ex, there was a time when all my wife wanted when she got home from work was a little time of quiet, and then a little time with me, even if she didn't want a lot of small talk. More like decompression time. On my side, I saw this time, during which my little one wants mommy's attention, as prime time to get the house picked up, dinner made or cleaned up, lots of tasks. I tried to make her mind peaceful by taking care of chores, as clutter can make her unsettled.

she was craving what chapman would call simply Quality time (most of us know what that means) and I was showing her affection through Acts of Service.

then later, when I wanted intimate touch (and I'm talking much more about being next to each other, holding hands, connection physically but not through sex) she was so tired that wed completely miss each other. Each felt the other was not being attentive in some way, when our intentions were just fine... just different expressions, different "dialects" that got lost in translation.

maybe it'll help you see what's going on with him. Maybe if you read it and leave it out he would glance through it. Chapman also has a book I haven't read called The Five Love Languages of Teenagers. Another book I haven't read but was curious to peek at is his book called Desperate Marriages... not that I think I'm in one, but understanding the common problems of a relationship can keep you from getting there in the first place, or help you get out quicker. His stuff is simple to read, so ill probably read more of it. Hopefully its not just rehashing throughout the different books.

in the below link you can search under the books button for topics
Gary Chapman's Five Love Languages: Books About Marriage (http://www.fivelovelanguages.com/books_married.html)

KP: I completely agree with your answer, staying in a marriage should not depend primarily on our two 16 year olds, I totally feel that once they go off to college which they both plan on doing. One to Berkley in California and the other close by at a state college, ( they are both excellent students thank god) then not only will I not have any communication on my homefront from my husband, I will be feeling the loss of both of the girls. That should definitely put me into a situation that will be the time for me. I have waited and taken care of them completely up to that point and will continue to be their support station. But in the same point, it may well be my turn, all four of our children will have left for lives and their own needs, and finally it will be my chance to figure out what I really need.
I will definitely check out all three of those books, I plan on getting at least one to start today. Hey I'm willing to try anything and my roommate status here is still the same.
Last evening the girls celebrated their 16th birthday with a huge pool bash, dj and bonfire, we have well over 60 teenagers around. My 21 year old son and his girlfriend, my mother and I were the chaperones, needless to say my husband never took part in any of the festivities except finally to come out and sing Happy Birthday when the time came. He was too interested in the noise level and how many people were in the pool. These girls are only 16 once and this was an important evening for them. I just wish he would realize how MUCH he is missing out on. Even friends of our came over and he stayed down stairs watching TV and loading bullets. Such a waste.

Kp stay in touch and thanks again for everything

Hold on here.

A separation??!!

you said you had a good marriage for 27 years right? plenty of intimacy and communication? healthy kids and a good sex life?

Whoa - This is likely a solvable problem. It's only been 2 of 27....

So, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. He is obviously depressed. The good news is you have a great foundation to work from. MANY MARRIAGES DO NOT! REALLY.
(THEY ARE LONG SLOGS WITH NO PASSION)

Your husband has lost his vitality and needs to feel like a man and loved unconditionally it appears. He may need an anti-depressant like selexa (sp?) for a while (though anti-dep's can inhibit libido too), and they require a therapist to recommend. And you all could use a little couple's therapy! It's sad when marriages take a turn, but every marriage has a challenging spell and this is yours.

Whether it's pills or therapy or dealing with diabetes... **Make sure you keep talking - even if you have to go away on a vacation that excites you both - to do it....

And realize you can get this thing back on track. I am sure you miss the man you love... I hope you can get him back - even if it's a little different than it used to be - one day soon.

Ash 123 First of all thank you for you answer. Let me say though that yes for primarily 27 years we have had a very good marriage, we had many bumps and mountains to climb raising 4 children, 1 of which is married with her own, 1 fresh out of college. We lost our home 12 years ago to fire, and nursed one child through a life threating illness, emplyment woes for him.Yes he have a lot of history together, but I have always stood by him, through thick and thin, when push came to shove I always gave everything my 100%< I supported him through many problems, emotionally he was not always there for me. His strong point never was communication, we talked but never for long periods. So I am used to minimal talking, but now it has decreased to nothing. I am not throwing in the towel just now, I have to wait and bide my time.

What I should say is that my husband doesn't see any problem, he would tell everyone and anyone what a great marriage he has. On his side yes he does, the kids are terrific and I take his hand whenever I can and hold it, I am a very touchy feely kind of person. I have always initiated the closeness and affection but after awhile I have gotten to the point where I am just plain tired of being the only one. Believe me when I tell you that when we got married, I didn't want the kind of marriages other people had, when they were together after 50 years I wanted to still be holding hands, and still be friends and lovers. My husband knew this one wish from the get go, a few years back he said you knew the type of person he was when I married him and that those were not his good points. Fine, but now what is his good points, not talk , no affection, no holding, and no time with any of our children or friends. I have company here almost every other day, because if I didn't I would have no ways of expressing myself, our kids and their husbands, girlfriends and friends are usually all here for dinner at least 2 times a week, I spend one evening out with my girlfriends a week, for companion and adult conversation.He doesn't need any of that, he will tell you he doesn't need people. I have tried to convince him to go to counseling , or talk to his doctor, his answer is why fix something that isn't broke.
I hope you don't think that I have quit needlessly, I have given my entire being to this man and my children. If you knew my kids you would see what wonderful human beings they are. They constantly tell people they love them and hug and kiss all the time with their friends and family, no drugs, no swearing and no problems. I have raised 4 children by loving them to the fullest extent possible, they will tell you their dad has always been there for them, just not emotionally sometimes. Now he won't even take the time to enjoy any of them. Life is very empty with him, and I can't play mediator and mender for the remainder of my life. Yes I love him, but at what price. That's my problem I know right now, and I appreciate any feedback , thanks again

A person with depression rarely is the one to notice the problem. Based on just your last post alone there has been an incredible amount of stress... Some people just aren't talkers.. they keep things bottled up. If on top of all of this he has experienced ED its going to have him feeling less of a man and if people start dumping on him he can quickly go down that slippery slope. With all that going on its going to be real easy for him to feel isolated.

Try talking to his doctor yourself... like I said, many people with depression are the last people to see they had a problem. And yes I have personally known several people that needed interventions to get them to treatment. One had actually attempted suicide not just once but three times.

About the 16 year olds party... I can relate to what he was thinking... it bothers the neighbors (who likely couldn't care less someone turned 16 ) and 16 is no real milestone in life... oh a 16 year old might think it is but in reality its just another birthday, 18 is th real milestone. That is more about being a good neighbor. Plus a group of noisey 16 year girls isn't most guys idea of fun. Unless they are that age group that is.

It sometimes darkest before the dawn.

I would let him know that this is NOT working and you have mulled divorce.

Tell him you love him but things are going to have to change or he's going to ruin what you have for good. Suggest couples or single counseling, anti-depressants, and a renewed focus on communication. Get it ALL on the table.

He may be depressed and coupled with his diabetes and weak communication skills has turned inwards. Sometimes coming close to the end can wake us up... if not, you did all you could.

No marriage is perfect, and divorce can sometimes be worse (not always mind you) so get to work. You have given him 100% already and resent that.. BUT a counselr can help you on that - and him... whether together or separate.

Good luck! It won't happen in a week or a month but it may get better!

Time to make it clear this is not working.

Ps - so-called "perfect couples" never are - so don't feel guilty or uniquely alone.

In response to Smoothy: Well the neighbors did kind of care because we live on a rural road where our neighbors are roughly 1000 yards away, we all have aprox. 5 acres and the neighbors were some of the older company we had, they were playing volleyball with the kids and their children were swimming in the pool, there was NO complaints from any of our neighbors about the twins party. Our other neighbor had a 25th anniversary last week that I attended ( alone I may add) and also had dj, dancing and a very nice group. I guess I do put a lot of attention into their parties, they are only young for such a short time and they will only be living at home for 2 more years until the one goes off 2100 miles away to school. Each birthday is special and with twins it's a pretty neat occasion, they are after all only teenagers and they need their father also. I'm not sure why I felt the need to justify their party, but really the issue wasn't noise, it was more so that he couldn't justify why he didn't want to participate. He turns the TV louder than the dj was playing so the noise and all these extra people who weren't our children's friends were my friends who he takes little or no interest in. They are not rude people, they come from all walks of life, self employed contractors, teachers, restaurant owners, and retired people, who carry on very informative conversations. All of which he won't participate in, it was really just another excuse for him to avoid human contact. I know I sound kind of bitter, but I am definitely a people person, if I can't get a conversation with my husband I will talk to friends, and I basically have always taught my children, " strangers are just people you haven't met yet".

I have tried talking to his doctor, he just switched his doctor about 2 months ago though and now has not included me on his hipa form. Basically because the other doctor agreed with me.

For 27 years you had intimacy and perhaps not enough communication. Now take away the intimacy and it seems like you have nothing...

You all got to talk.

You clearly are not happy so the serious dialogue needs to begin - about his anger and depression... at himself, you, the kids, the world.

In response to Smoothy: Well the neighbors did kind of care because we live on a rural road where our neighbors are roughly 1000 yards away, we all have aprox. 5 acres and the neighbors were some of the older company we had, they were playing volleyball with the kids and their children were swimming in the pool, there was NO complaints from any of our neighbors about the twins party. Our other neighbor had a 25th anniversary last week that I attended ( alone I may add) and also had dj, dancing and a very nice group. I guess I do put a lot of attention into their parties, they are only young for such a short time and they will only be living at home for 2 more years til the one goes off 2100 miles away to school. Each birthday is special and with twins its a pretty neat occasion, they are after all only teenagers and they need their father also. I'm not sure why I felt the need to justify their party, but really the issue wasn't noise, it was more so that he couldn't justify why he didn't want to participate. He turns the tv louder than the dj was playing so the noise and all these extra people who weren't our childrens friends were my friends who he takes little or no interest in. They are not rude people, they come from all walks of life, self employed contractors, teachers, restarant owners, and retired people, who carry on very informative conversations. All of which he won't participate in, it was really just another excuse for him to avoid human contact. I know I sound kind of bitter, but I am definetly a people person, if I can't get a conversation with my husband I will talk to friends, and I basically have always taught my children, " strangers are just people you haven't met yet".

I have tried talking to his doctor, he just switched his doctor about 2 months ago though and now has not included me on his hipa form. Basically because the other doctor agreed with me.

OK... you would have less issues with neighbors as you are more spread out than I have become used to.

Its definitely pointing towards depression more and more. Particularly with the fact he changed doctors and is refusing to put you on the that form. What does he expect you to do if he becomes incapacitated and you can't know anything.

Personally I'm a strong believer in married cohabitating spouses having a right to that info as well as being first on the list of beificiaries...

Perhaps someone who knows more about your options than I know here will have some ideas. If he was a danger to himself or others you could have him involentarily committed to be checked out but that carries a lot of risk and can really open a can of worms. I'd consider that a last step to consider.

Let me know how it goes. You can't dance around this or he'll not get the message.

Won't be easy at first, but things that are worthwhile rarely are.

Smoothy: well let me think how I could word this and not sound like he would flip out. But yes he would flip out, and honestly I'm not sure in our state what constitutes me being able to have him committed. I guess I could say that it would take more than one individual to have that happen. I guess I would also say that yes the hipa form is a huge issue, however I was just made aware of this about 2 days ago when I went to get a referral slip for our one daughter, when I requested a prescription refill, the secretary kindly told me he had omitted the hipa form. When I asked Laurie how often that occurs she said hardly ever, I questioned him and he said that our previous doctor( who both of us go to) was too close to me and would discuss to close of issues with me. Well hello yes I questioned his blood sugars and his tests trying to figure out if any of these could be the problems he has been expriencing. Well needless to say he didn't like the idea of our doctor agreeeing that there is a problem. I have tried discussing this with our friends, however he doesn't really let anyone get too close to him.

His parents are the only ones he really has respect and talks to things about. Now you ready for the kicker, they dispise me and our children. They have no time for family or anyone else for that matter, my husband sees them maybe twice a year and they only live 20 miles from us. They don't like to be bothered with friends or family. HMMMM now who do you suppose my husband takes after, he has always said he never wants to be like them, hence the whole problem. I know some of the problem is how his parents relate to people, but I have steered our children pretty clear of them. They have never taken an interest in our live, when the kids were born they never even bothered to show their faces at the hospital. Their other son is divorced and they have little or no contact with his children either. They love their other son devotedly, mainly because they are able to control everything in his life, his wife left because of his parents. Life is pretty interesting isn't it. Needless to say I get along with his ex-wife and all 4 of their children come and visit us on a regular basis, they are grown and range in age from 30 down to 18. His parents are definitely a factor I can not agrue that point. He calls his mother every Sunday at my suggestion, however I ask that he not talk to her in my presence since her questions always revolve around what I have or haven't done and what trouble our kids or their friends have gotten into. Which is absolutely upsurd since all four have never been in a bit of trouble. I know smoothy I should have read the writing on the wall but I loved my husband and unfortunately I still do, I miss the person I know is there somewhere again.
Thank you so much for your responses. They let me vent and think things through.

This is sounding worse as you go.

I think perhaps your post was "the tip of the wedge"... hiding a lot more.

I think 27 years of intimacy may have been overstating it huh?

Well, this is not pretty and you really can't have anyone committed right now, but you perhaps oughta step up and have the conversation and be fair about it and see what he says.

Then, if things devolve and you all cannot see eye to eye or need a trial separation at some point, you will a lot saner if you did all you could now.

You know perhaps try seeing a counceler alone... I know its not going to resolve his issues BUT it might help you deal with them and decide what is best for you. Or help you find a way to make him deal with his issues. Assuming you can afford to go it might help with your peace of mind even if it might not help the root problem.

I know you have to be dealing with a lot of stress and at our ages stress isn't going to do anything good to our bodies. It might help defuse that stress somewhat.

So... "have a serious discussion" isn't the answer. She's tried that. He won't talk or listen. The details are clearer now, but my advice is still the same.

The books I mentioned aren't likely to make you feel better... I still haven't read chapmans Desperate Marriages, but I have read his book Covenant Marriage, angled toward those of Christain faith... he has common truths that someone who isn't Christian would agree with, but since it cites passages from the bible often, its probably distracting for those who don't follow the faith. If you read this book, or even the Five Love Languages you'll probably be upset because it will show on paper, in structured word, what you need and what you aren't getting. Like making that "laundry list" of "why do i stay... why should i go"...

Clearly you love your husband. Even if he wasn't the best communicator and even with the issues of the parents, I think you were able to hold things together for a long time because it was always enough, even if it was just enough.

You didn't state this was the perfect marriage... you stated others would call it that, likely from their outside view of a couple together for a long time, who still have dates together, and your sex life was decent from your own words. Even if you knew it wasn't "perfect", even if there were things lacking, it was enough for you in many ways. Clearly his stating it's a "perfect" marriage shows his definition is quite different than yours.

Some people come here and are clearly choosing to be victims in their relationships. I don't think you are. I think you simply made a commitment to your marriage and understood that not all things might perfectly mesh... but there was enough overlap for you to stay, even if you desired more.

Something in the last two years has changed and I don't know what that is... its why I wondered if he had a friend who passed, or who divorced. I wonder if its tied to ED as we've talked about. I wonder if he is struggling with the girls becoming women and not girls anymore.

27 years of intimacy wasn't necessarily overstated. It just had perhaps limited context. They had satisfying sex regularly for many years, and the connection there seemed to stave off the deficits elsewhere. Your OP indicates that the loss of cuddling and holding hands is a recent event. So she felt affection and closeness, even though it was through a limited "dialect"... as chapman states, outside of Physical Touch, there are also Acts of Service, Quality Time, Receiving Gifts, and Words of Affirmation. The better you are at showing love through all of these "dialects" the better chance you have of weathering problems, as then no one method of expressing commitment is propping up the entire marriage.

The frustrating thing here is as much as he hasn't been all you've wanted in many ways, it sounds like it would not take much for him to make it again "just enough" for you to stay. I don't think you've played the part of a "victim"... but you have done some heavy lifting. We choose to be willing to do some heavy lifting when we marry. That doesn't mean one person does all of it all the time. He's all but abandoned one of the few methods by which he showed you commitment.

something in the last two years has changed and i dont know what that is... its why i wondered if he had a friend who passed, or who divorced. i wonder if its tied to ED as weve talked about. i wonder if he is struggling with the girls becoming women and not girls anymore.
Wise words as usual, KP.

It does seem that the last two years have seen a major change for the worse, even if it wasn't entirely perfect before that. To me, it sounds like depression, specifically, dysthymia. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=dysthymia&spell=1) Read up on it and see if it fits.

But whatever label or diagnosis might be applied to it, the bottom line is that he has to come to a recognition that there is a problem and that he needs help with it. If he continues to be in denial about it, you have to take steps to salvage your own mental, emotional and physical health. Your doing so may or may not produce the needed change in his perspective, so do it for yourself, not for him.

When/what was the serious discussion that has occurred on all these issues?

Thanks Kp: I still feel in my heart we have had a very good marriage, no it wasn't perfect but I don't think there is one out there that is completely perfect. I loved this man enough and valued my vows that I took in church to stay and make the best marriage I felt possible. I never once in almost 26 years ever thought of throwing in the towel. Does that make me a victim, definitely not I feel it makes me the type of person who starts something and won't just give up for selfish or minimal problems. I hope that is one trait I have passed onto my children, the divorce rate in the country is too high for my liking.

I have ordered two of the books you recommended and they will be in shortly, I can't wait to start them. Hopefully they will give me a new insight into some of this mess.

Ash: As for where did the perfect marriage go, I know in my heart we have had a wonderful marriage, I didn't setttle for something less all those years ago. We have done many extremely nice things over the course of our life together. We have been through many trial and tribulations, and always have overcome them, we have gone on a family vacation every year and numerous cruises that our family enjoyed. We have gone on numerous vacations alone and yes they have been wonderful. So I don't want anyone to think it has been a terrible 28 plus year failure. I have a great job, a great home and wonderful children and a husband who I have always felt was enough. Yes maybe I chose to carry a lot of the work, but that is my personality, I still would have married him 28 years ago even knowing what I am going through now. I love him and truly believe we had and will hopefully still have what it takes to make it through until the end.

Please don't feel sorry for me, I have made this choice, I have to live with that. I know it sort of sounds hopeless, but somewhere inside this man is that one I still love endlessly. He just has to emerge and I have to figure out the best way to make that occur.

Thanks for all the feedback and letting me vent, you have no idea what that means to me.

Your story is so sad, as you seem to be watching helplessly as things roll down hill. From what you have written, clearly he is suffering as well. I think you have both failed to make the adjustments necessary, for long term health, and happiness, and that lack of willingness to work together is driving a deep wedge between you. I'm not assigning blame, as this has been going on I suspect a whole lot longer than the two years, you keep bringing up, way longer, and for whatever reason you both have let it grow.

My suggestion is you let him wallow on his own pot, and get yours together without him. That doesn't mean divorce or a separation, just get your own life in balance, and make sure your happy.

Be aware he has slowly isolated himself in his own world, and needs to come out of it, and be active in his own happiness, and you cannot help him do it. Sorry, you have your own issues to tend to, or your useless to everyone else, so get busy with you, and not expect squat from him, and if he can't get his dead azz to moving for himself, you move for yourself, and be the example for your kids your proud of. Sorry, but as OG remarked, do for you right now, make sure your healthy. I think he will get up, and work on his issues, when he gets miserable enough.

Its evident his job change has more impact than he lets on and your blindness to his change does neither of you any good. He has a lot bottled up, but until he is ready to vent it, nothing you can do, but MAYBE be there for the fall out. He's a big boy, let him figure it out for himself.

My wife told me a few years ago when I was laid up for a few serious injuries, and was down in the mouth, to get over myself, and do something about myself, or shut the F**K up, and quite whining, she then left and went shopping. I eventually got it together I think, but the point is state your position, and go about your business. This was never about sex, so leave that on the shelf, and get your life in order.
Good Luck!!

when/what was the serious discussion that has occurred on all these issues?
Let me clarify what I perhaps didn't say well.

This marriage will not survive without them having a serious discussion about where it is going... my point was she has been the one that has initiated any discussions, she is the one who has tried to address this issue, with his response being "with our marriage perfect, why would you change it", she is the one who is taking control and facing reality. It has all been her work.

"talk to him" isn't going to do it... at least not yet. You can try to have a serious discussion with a wall... that it didn't get worked out doesn't mean she has not tried. I believe she has tried to have serious discussions... he just isn't responsive or engaged in them.

What's next for her is to first deal with herself, not him. Baty needs to take some time to evaluate this relationship from a different angle, and whether that is with a counselor (which I think would be best) or/and with some books like I recommended. She's spent so much time lately focused on him... what is wrong with him, how can she change his behavior, how can she get her husband back... that's she is losing her own footing.

So I said "have a serious discussion" has been done and isn't working, and I kind of meant it... but perhaps not as it comes across.

I think her first step is to stop focusing on him, and to focus on herself... including what it means to be in a marriage. I say this because, while I have a good, strong marriage, I've had to work through my own bumps in the road along the way... and oftentimes the best resolutions required me to not think about what my partner is doing wrong, but what am I doing? What is being missed? If I assume my partner loves me, then where is the breakdown?

Yes... they will need to have some serious discussions... but at some point, and that point is now, baty needs some new tools, new angles, new approaches to tackle this issue.

Yes, it requires more work on her part, but it's the work I think she needs to do for herself, not for him. Talking with a counselor or reading some of the books I mention will start her on the path to understanding her marriage from a different perspective and understanding her own needs... something that needs to be now.

And ill add this. I read the book covenant marriage after my wife did. As she read she marked sections that were interesting to her... some were things she already new and believed, some were new approaches to a relationship. You'd better believe I read that book after she did and paid special attention to the parts she highlighted.

He might very well stay on the "everything is great" tack even if he sees a relationship book sitting on the bedside. I've been through one depression myself and its an ugly cycle. But he might also see a book like five love languages as an opportunity that needs to be taken. Its an fairly passive "escalation" of the situation where she is seeking help and he again gets the chance to join in or step back. If he refuses to even read a book, she has more proof that his grass is green enough as is.

So... didn't mean they didn't need to talk... meant that she needs to find her footing immediately. Counseling, books, venting at AMHD are all about that.

Ok here goes, My husband and I have been married for almost 29 years, we have 2 grown children and 2 girls 16 still at home. We have always been considered what other people would call the perfect couple. WE try and go out at least once a week just the two of us, still dancing and dinners and sometimes movies. Our sex life has always been extremely important and satisfing to both of us, generally 2 -3 times a week. However in the last 2 years it has dwindled to less than once in maybe 5 weeks. My husband is a diabetic and has been for almost 49 years since he was 2. Ok yes this could be the major issue here however, he has tried the little blue pill and doesn't like any of the side effects. We have now gotten to the point that we hardly have any conversation at all anymore. There is absolutely no cuddling unless I iniate it and holding hands has gone almost completely out the window. Yes I understand we are 48 and 51 years old but the closeness we have experienced and affection all of our lives has completely gone by the way side. I am really to the point that I am tired of iniating it and pretty much have given up. He knows I am disappointed but seems to think that our 4 children and my girlfriends are enough to sustain my personal relationships. Thank god I have my girlfriends and we actively go out a couple times a week and then our 16 year olds are also my greatest joy in the entire world. I am to the point though that I am totally frustrated and infuriated with him and ready to leave as soon as our twins graduate. My husband has been my life for over 29 years and I have many male friends but never in all this time have I ever felt the need or want to have an affair or leave him.. Please help I am losisng a battle
I totally get what you are saying... Im 43 husband 53, been together 21 years. One 16 year old left of four boys... Had the same thing happen to me. Lots of stress, he lost his executive job 5 years ago and his parents last year... Sex was gone. Found out by accident that he was looking up porn to masturbate... leaving me out in the cold. I WAS DEEPLY hurt and confronted him... Went to counseling once... he said he would be there for me again... still struggling. But... things are getting better. You don't have to have intercourse (he has problems with ed too). But just experimenting with different ways and different places to be close is helping. Hang in there... Talk to him when you know he will listen... It's your right to be taken care of sexually. I actually wrote him an email that said... what's worse. Finding out that I have a lover or knowing that you pushed me to consider it! Not mean... just real and serious about having our needs met if we want to have a great relationship.

I'm 42 and my husband's 43. We've been married for 8 years; and he's diabetic. Baty, what you write is what I've been going through almost since I first started seeing him. He's the love of my life, a wonderful person in every way except our private life. He started having ED soon after we were married - but I think he already had it in a small measure even before that. My sex drive is pretty high but he has no interest or desire at all. I'm also really affectionate and love to hug and cuddle and just be physically close, but he doesn't like any of that. Even so, I'd be happy if we had any sort of intimacy at least once a week, or at least a few times a month! I would be happy if we had Something, Anything! Even just holding and cuddling instead of the sex.. I could have lived with that!

During the first few years of our married life, we had sex once a month or once in two months, very rarely. But now its more than 4 years since we've had any kind of sex or physical closeness with each other. It's been so so hard, and I'm really at my wits end! I logged on tonight looking for some answer to my problem because I'm feeling really desperate and depressed about our lack of intimacy and affection (crying as I write this... ). I don't want to be an aggressive kind of wife, or make him feel bad. A few years back, I tried to talk to him but it did absolutely no good, and now I've given up trying to make him understand.

Like you baty, I deeply resented him because he totally ignored my need for him. In bed, he would just turn his back on me and sleep. For several years now, I don't go to bed till very late because its so frustrating when you're crazy with desire for this guy and he just goes to sleep in your face. I stay up all night - sometimes reading, watching TV,. or surfing porn sites. A few months back, I started chatting to men online, no cyber, just flirting a bit. But then I felt so guilty and bad about the whole thing that I stopped doing it, but I'm still tempted when I get really hot and bothered.

I really don't know what to do. I've seen a lot of responses here and on some other sites but I don't know if any of it will really make any difference. Though kp2171, talaniman and progunr had some great posts! However I am pretty sure people like my husband won't change; I have no faith in him making any attempt to fix this. He just avoids the whole issue altogether and wants both of us to go on as if there's nothing wrong. My whole life seems to be passing before my eyes, and even though I'm married, I feel barren and unfulfilled.

I'm 42 and my husband's 43. We've been married for 8 years; and he's diabetic. Baty, what you write is what I've been going through almost since I first started seeing him. He's the love of my life, a wonderful person in every way except our private life. He started having ED soon after we were married - but I think he already had it in a small measure even before that. My sex drive is pretty high but he has no interest or desire at all. I'm also really affectionate and love to hug and cuddle and just be physically close, but he doesn't like any of that. Even so, I'd be happy if we had any sort of intimacy at least once a week, or at least a few times a month! I would be happy if we had Something, Anything! Even just holding and cuddling instead of the sex....., I could have lived with that!

During the first few years of our married life, we had sex once a month or once in two months, very rarely. But now its more than 4 years since we've had any kind of sex or physical closeness with each other. It's been so so hard, and I'm really at my wits end! I logged on tonight looking for some answer to my problem because I'm feeling really desperate and depressed about our lack of intimacy and affection (crying as i write this...). I don't want to be an aggressive kind of wife, or make him feel bad. A few years back, I tried to talk to him but it did absolutely no good, and now I've given up trying to make him understand.

Like you baty, I deeply resented him because he totally ignored my need for him. In bed, he would just turn his back on me and sleep. For several years now, I don't go to bed till very late because its so frustrating when you're crazy with desire for this guy and he just goes to sleep in your face. I stay up all night - sometimes reading, watching tv, .....or surfing porn sites. A few months back, I started chatting to men online, no cyber, just flirting a bit. But then I felt so guilty and bad about the whole thing that I stopped doing it, but I'm still tempted when I get really hot and bothered.

I really don't know what to do. I've seen a lot of responses here and on some other sites but I don't know if any of it will really make any difference. Though kp2171, talaniman and progunr had some great posts! However I am pretty sure people like my husband won't change; I have no faith in him making any attempt to fix this. He just avoids the whole issue altogether and wants both of us to go on as if there's nothing wrong. My whole life seems to be passing before my eyes, and even though I'm married, I feel barren and unfulfilled.

ugh....the more posts i read like this i begin to think that lack of intimacy is a silent epidemic.

And perhaps a sign of the general state of America: overweight, out of shape and lacking a sense of adventure and need to see the world... sorry if I am going off on a tangent but when a partner is in emotional prison over sex it is so tough. They have money and a roof over head and friendship so hard to explain to people.

There are many reasons (married young and changed expectations, overweight, depression, cheating, anger, diabetes, ED, hormonal change, lack of respect, fatique... )
But please do not feel like you cannot communicate at home about this- even if you have to get a counselor. Its your life... do they realize they may lose you? Or how much you are hurting?

This is serious and I hope things get better or you take action somehow.

Granted, there is not a lot you can do to make a partner work with you on any level, but then you must decide for yourself, what actions you must take for yourself.

Education of the problem may lead to help for you, that and understanding, then maybe a plan of action can be made that helps. Life changes call for adjustments, but ideally partners must work together.

[QUOTE=shykitte]I'm 42 and my husband's 43. We've been married for 8 years; and he's diabetic. Baty, what you write is what I've been going through almost since I first started seeing him. He's the love of my life, a wonderful person in every way except our private life. He started having ED soon after we were married - but I think he already had it in a small measure even before that. My sex drive is pretty high but he has no interest or desire at all. I'm also really affectionate and love to hug and cuddle and just be physically close, but he doesn't like any of that. Even so, I'd be happy if we had any sort of intimacy at least once a week, or at least a few times a month! I would be happy if we had Something, Anything! Even just holding and cuddling instead of the sex.. I could have lived with that!

During the first few years of our married life, we had sex once a month or once in two months, very rarely. But now its more than 4 years since we've had any kind of sex or physical closeness with each other. It's been so so hard, and I'm really at my wits end! I logged on tonight looking for some answer to my problem because I'm feeling really desperate and depressed about our lack of intimacy and affection (crying as I write this... ). I don't want to be an aggressive kind of wife, or make him feel bad. A few years back, I tried to talk to him but it did absolutely no good, and now I've given up trying to make him understand.

Like you baty, I deeply resented him because he totally ignored my need for him. In bed, he would just turn his back on me and sleep. For several years now, I don't go to bed till very late because its so frustrating when you're crazy with desire for this guy and he just goes to sleep in your face. I stay up all night - sometimes reading, watching TV,. or surfing porn sites. A few months back, I started chatting to men online, no cyber, just flirting a bit. But then I felt so guilty and bad about the whole thing that I stopped doing it, but I'm still tempted when I get really hot and bothered.

I really don't know what to do. I've seen a lot of responses here and on some other sites but I don't know if any of it will really make any difference. Though kp2171, talaniman and progunr had some great posts! However I am pretty sure people like my husband won't change; I have no faith in him making any attempt to fix this. He just avoids the whole issue altogether and wants both of us to go on as if there's nothing wrong. My whole life seems to be passing before my eyes, and even though I'm married, I feel barren an
D unfulfilled./QUOTE]

Shykitte: I think you and I have a lot in common, I'm not sure if that's such a great thing. However it seems we are both dealing with it in about the same way, you don't say if you have children or not but that is one thing I have in my favor. I also have no faith in my husband making any attempt to fix it. I will say in the last week or so I have started going entirely about my own life. If I want to do something and he isn't interested I started making the decision to do it myself or involve one of my friends or kids. I'm not saying this is going to affect how he sees things, but I don't have to rely on him for my happiness.
For example last evening our son had a baseball game about an hour away, well I wanted to dinner out and go to his game, when I told him that I was going, and he was very able to stay at home and pout or do whatever it is he does, as I was going out the door he got his shoes on and went with me. I'm not saying that this is a turning point believe me, but I think that he understands that I will not sit around waiting for him to change. I have always gone and done things with my girlfriends, but him knowing that I would be going completely by myself, seemed to put a different light on it.

I've been out 3 nites this week, twice with friends and last evening with him and I'm not saying that it has given my a new perspective but I don't want him to think that I've given IN to his lifestyle. Does that make any sense, I hope so. I am a very outgoing person, and yes I work about 60 plus hours a week so I am away a lot. But I need something in my life to fulfill me. Whether it be making myself feel better with other friends or what.

Shy I do understand how you say youwhen you say you feel barren, we aren't the ones who are barren, I seriously wish I could atempt an affair, but the reprocussions and the effect on my children would be too much to bear. If this were on the other foot, I don't believe in my heart that he would be this sympathetic. I'm not saying he doesn't love me, just not the way we need to be loved shy. Please let me know what is going on with you. We definitely have a lot in common and your experiences could help me and mine yours. Good LUCK

Thanks for writing back - Baty, Ash123 and Talaniman. It really means a lot to me to get feedback from all of you.

In response, no we don't have children. We tried IVF and fertility procedures for almost four years without any success. I got very stressed out with all the hormone injections (they were giving me the highest levels to make me stay pregnant) and the roller coaster emotions and each time the procedure didn't work. Finally I developed a fibroid - which is a side effect if you take hormones, and when I had to have surgery we decided that we would stop trying for a baby.

At one time I used to yearn for children but then we started doing other things like travel (we travel extensively - all over the US and also around the world whenever we can). I love that, its amazing to explore the world. The bad part is that I'm with a "roommate" or "friend", not a husband, exactly as you said in one of your earlier posts, Baty. Our life is also filled with family, friends and work of course. There are much loved nieces and nephews on both sides that we see and keep in contact with all the time. So I don't miss having children in my life as much now, and I don't know if they would have compensated for the lack of physical intimacy from my husband.

Looking at us, no one suspects we have any problems, I guess. I have girlfriends but I find it hard to confide about this to them. There are so many things that I love about our life but sex is a BIG part of married life, and so is physical affection - the hugs, touching each other, kissing, the whole sensation and experience of being close to a person you're in love with. I haven't had a real kiss for years, and it really bugs me at times! Every morning he dutifully gives me a peck before going to work - usually on any part of my face except my lips, and sometimes it's the air..! Sometimes I feel he may be afraid of triggering any passion if he kisses my lips..! (sarcasm there :) )

It's true - you can have everything - the liking, companionship, and like Ash said so well - friendship, a roof over your head and money, but it is an emotional prison if there is no intimacy! I used to feel I was being selfish having so much and still wanting this one thing he couldn't give me, but there's no outlet for my feelings or my needs! Online porn is no substitute for the real thing. What do you do when you crave so much to be touched and held?

Last year I met this friend who used to have a big crush on me. He wanted to have an affair, and tried to kiss me, but I couldn't kiss him back. My husband's face was in my head and I just couldn't make myself kiss this guy's lips - I was so... sort of repelled! Does that make any sense? It's not just that guy, there are a couple of people who I know are interested, but now I'm starting to realize that its not going to be easy to just do it with someone else. I don't know if you feel like that also Baty, especially since you've been in a good marriage for so many years. I don't know anymore. Maybe I'm not ready... I think if I was really excited, I could have sex but I still couldn't kiss anyone other than my husband. I can't imagine kissing anyone but him. He, his personality, his face, his body - he's what I'm attracted to more than anyone else.

But having no sex is now bothering me to such an extent that I think of it all the time; almost to the point of being obsessed with it maybe. I know that the problem with my husband and yours too Baty is not something that can possibly be cured so its not going to go away. I'm sure it must be hard for them also, not being able to function. However, like you, I feel its very unfair on their part to not attempt to meet us halfway or even a quarter way. I wish they would realize how hard it is to curb your body's needs and try to help in any way they can - even if its not much, maybe try to play a little or let us play with them??

Shy,

You might want to start your own thread :-)

Could be efficient and practical (?)

A

It did cross my mind Ash.. :)

Sorry because I cut into yours Baty... didn't mean to, it just happened.

Maybe just cut and paste most of above etc. into a new post... hope u get responses you need.


The intimacy issue is definitely a real epidemic.

Shy: Actually your posts have also made me understand I am not alone, and realize that other people are going through this also. I sometimes tend to think that it is only me. I also liked hearing how your friends think you probably have a wonderful marriage and everything is great. Exactly what most of or friends and family would tell you about my husband and mine. Really shy keep posting and you can email me also. I think it really helps thanks again

I agree keep posting, just hard to diverge answers if they are asked... into one thread. Otherwise - post away.. shows she's not alone.

I've been reading the thread and all the responses. Having suffered a about of depression in my mid-forties, I can somewhat relate and give some insight to what your and ShyKitte's husband are going through. Up until that time, I had a great outlook on life, a positive mental attitude, and a high sex drive. In just a matter of months, it seemed like I was dying on the inside. I was able to function in day to day work life but didn't seem to have any emotion. My sex drive quickly dropped which compounded the depression. Like most men, I started shutting down and isolating myself. I just told myself it must be because I'm getting older and that's just the way it is.
Almost a year later I had to make a business trip out of state and decide to stay with an old friend that I hadn't seen in years. To my surprise, while staying there my friend told me that she was on disability for chronic depression. She started describing what she had been going through and I recognized that I was dealing with the same symptoms but not to the extent she was.
Upon my return, I started researching depression and it's causes. I went to an internist who put me on an anti-depressant but I told him I didn't think it was a mental but a physical problem. After a month of bad reactions and side effects, I went back and convinced him to check my testosterone and thyroid levels. To his surprise my testerone level had bottomed out. This had caused my loss of drive, emotions and sex drive. My level had been high from early puberty. I had to shave at age 11, was balding at age 18, hairy chest and hairy back in my 20's, always muscular, always high sex drive - all signs of extremely high testosterone.
My doctor put me on testerone injections and I started returning to my old self again. That was 12 years ago and I still take testosterone and cycle with anti-estrogen pills. I'm almost 60 and still have a great sex drive.
Any man who suffers from a lack of sex drive or depression should have his testosterone and thyroid levels checked before allowing a doctor to put them on anti-depressants which doesn't help but kills sex drive even more. ED drugs do not create sex drive. They only help with an erection but what good is an erection without enough testosterone to create desire for sex.
As far as ED, there are many things men can do in addition to ED drugs. ED is chiefly a circulation problem that can be restored in many cases without the side effects of ED drugs. I found taking 1-2 tablespoons of liquid fish oil daily along with 1,000-2,000 mg of L-Argnine, 50 mg of DHEA, 400 mg of Magnesium and drinking water instead of soda or other drinks helps me keep good blood flow. I've tried Viagra and Calais with Calais being the preferred choice. I take a 20mg Calais tablet and cut it into 6 pieces. Occasionally I will take one of these little pieces if I'm somewhat exhausted but still amorous. Usually my wife complains because I'm too rock hard. This small amount will do the job without all the side effects of headaches, blurred vision, etc.
I hope this helps.

MrEasy...

I rated you a positive response, but wanted to thank you again for your response. You bring up good points about physiology, hormones, and ED drugs. Improvements in your vascular system is one of the most important elements of ED correction (along with mental health), especially as we put on some years. Over time our vascular system tends to harden (this isn't the atherosclerosis tied to heart disease) and I'm of the opinion the often ED is tied to many small things whose sum causes the effect.

Your response about asking for testosterone levels to be checked is great.

Your talk about ED drugs not creating a sex drive is spot on.

A question. Do you prefer cialis for its longer half life (meaning you can take it with a longer window of opportunity... leaving you more mentally relaxed with more time to find the right time)? It's a common thing I've seen in studies.. just wondering your take on it.

Welcome to AMHD. Insightful responses are always welcomed, especially those with personal experience.

KP2171,
Thank you for the welcome and positive rating. To answer your question about Cialis, I don't take it very often but I prefer it mainly because I can take a small piece 1/6th of a 20 mg. tablet which is enough to be effective for almost 18 hrs. but without all the side effects of Viagra ( headache, lightheadedness, etc.).
While most people are familiar with a woman experiencing menopause, very few have heard of the male version, Andropause. Hormones determine so much more than just our sex drive. They effect the way we think, react, our emotions and even our body build. When they change, we change. It is important that we understand the effects and realize there are things that can be done. We don't have to settle for less. It make take a while to find the right physician but it's worth the effort.

Thanks for the response again. I've suggested cialis often because its longer effectiveness tends to reduce stress with getting the deed done sooner than later. Glad to hear its worked for you.

And glad you brought up again the issue of hormone levels. Many women experience perimenopause and its effects long before menopause... likewise men are often clueless about hormone levels and the effects (who EVER told us about this?? ).

And your position on choosing a physician is DEAD ON RIGHT. Its worth the struggle and the work to find a doctor who is willing to work hard on your behalf. The stigma of talking about sex unfortunately keeps many from demanding more from their providers and more for themselves.

Baty: Thank you also! I really wanted to keep in touch with you here because we relate to each other and understand exactly what its like.

Whatever it takes to reestablish communications, is the key to getting back to a level of him not being isolated, and maybe seeing a doctor. That's the real goal.

This may sound weird, but by not talking, you may have him talking, if for no other reason, to find out what's up with you, and this quiet treatment. Think about how his lack of communication has affected you, and you'll have a clue of how he will be affected.

Backing off his problems, and dealing with your own, may be the only option you have.

Okay... the whole pregnacy/IVF/hormone/surgery thing probably has a LOT to do with this.

For a while there, sex was to get pregnant. Whether you deliberately made it that way or not, that's got to be there in the back of the head.

Then, when you didn't conceive, HUGE blow to the ego. Did your tests indicate that it was a sperm problem to begin with? Did the problem with conception have to do with HIM, I mean? Men don't deal well with that--it's like having a mastectomy or a hysterectomy messes with women---I mean, it's almost exactly the same thing.

THEN---you have hormone things. I mean, living with the PMS sort of symptoms that come on from IVF is hard from the person going through it---but it's JUST as hard as their partner, who never knows whether it's going to be up or down when they talk to you next.

Add to that the disappointment --on HIS side--of not having children (and many men are JUST as depressed about that monthly flow as women are, when trying to conceive, and just don't feel like they're allowed to show it), well, anyway, when you add it all together, I'm sure he IS depressed, and he DOES see sex as something sort of disappointing, and that maybe--just MAYBE--you're still fixated on the baby thing, and not on the loving him thing. After all, sex was less about him than about having a baby for a while there, whether you meant it to be that way or not.

I no longer think this is JUST depression on his part--I think this is a breakdown of communication that happens to a lot of couples playing the conception game.

You should BOTH go talk to a counselor, and a doctor. I'm betting that when you get to the bottom of this, it DOES end up being the problems you experienced trying to conceive. Women have a hard time getting people to understand the heartache and frustrations that go with Trying to conceive, and men have it worse. I mean, what are they going to do? Complain to their friends that they HAVE to have sex tonight, because it's ovulation time? They really don't have even the sympathy women get on this issue, and it has GOT to be hard for them--especially since they can't justify their feelings on it.

Seriously... you need to BOTH see a counselor on this one, and preferably one that has dealt with infertility in marriage in the past.

Even if he won't go, you go, and learn, so you will know what to do about you, and how to best help, and understand him.

Thanks Synnen, Talaniman.

@Synnen: That wasn't the case with us. We never tried for babies with sex, (with the ovulation time thing and all) - as we barely had sex to begin with. So the IVF was purely that (intra-vitro-fertilization). As for the ego thing, I was actually more upset than he was at the time. He was very calm about the whole thing - and in fact he asked me to stop trying after I had surgery. He's not hung up about having kids.

The conception problem was neither his nor my fault - he did have sperm, and I'm normal, as far as the doctors could tell. So not sure what it is - but that doesn't matter now (it was a long time ago - more than 4 years back), and neither of us are fixated any more on the baby thing. We're both in our early 40's and not really interested now in having kids. We considered adoption at one point but our heart wasn't in it so we decided not to. I like the fact that I can play/interact/spoil my nieces and nephews but give them back to their parents at the end of the day. :) We also like our independence and the fact that we can do things without having to worry about schools or schedules or meals etc... or worry about teens acting up and so on.

As for talking to a counselor together, I suggested it a few years back, but he's not interested. I haven't pushed it. I'm realising that the diabetes meds totally take off any sexual desire or passion, so that even a counselor couldn't help much except maybe prescribe more meds. Mr Easy's post made a lot of sense to me.

We actually have a good relationship in every way but this - if you read my earlier posts, you'll know what I mean. Ash123 put it so well when he said earlier that "a partner is in emotional prison over sex, it is so tough. they have money and a roof over head and friendship... so hard to explain to people."

@ Baty: how are you doing?

Shykitte, you mentioned that... "the diabetes meds totally take off any sexual desire or passion"... What meds does take? How well does he control his blood sugar? Is he overweight? Does he get physical exercise? Does he have high blood pressure, cholesterol or heart trouble? This would give a better picture of the physical situation. If Diabetes is well controlled, it slows the damage to the body allowing people to function normally for years unless there are other conditions present.

Maybe you should talk to a counselor alone to get back on track and make next decisions.

Shy and everyone: Things are going along, summer is a very busy time for me so I keep pretty busy with the girls and summer activities. Our son is back home permently now that he's finished college and he just got a full time position in his field (YES!! ) So I am keeping busy with him and his girlfriend and our twins. We just had a benefit for our grandaughter and amazingly my husband stayed the entire day helping out with that and I'm not saying things are improving sexual or intimatly better, but he is TRYING to make a few changes. He has been trying to improve his communication with me as far as talking and I'm definitely not saying life has greatly improved but I guess this sort of change is a gradual improvement on things.

I really think my going about my own scheme of things and not spending time dwindling on what I can change about him has helped. I have actually commented to him how I am biding my time until my ( well our ) girls are finished with high school. He gives me this blank stare, but I think I have gotten through to him. Amazingly when his mother came to the benefit I did not make any attempt to try and talk to her and went about my general duties for the day, I really thought this would push him over the edge because he has always expected me to talk to her and go the extra mile. However that was not even an issue.

I'm not telling anyone that my life has greatly improved, however I am a little... more content with these conditions than I was even 2 weeks ago. He seems to be making a little more effort to get involved on a daily basis with the kids and me again. Maybe I've scared him. Each step gained is wonderful, now if I could just get the affection back I would be tremendously happy. He has been seeing a chiropractor now for about 1 1/2 weeks to see if any of his problems could be the result of his back and neck. This doctor has stated ( not because he asked) that male hormonal and ed could possibly be improved. Hey at least he is willing to go to this doctor and he has asked me to go with his to all the visits so far to hear what this doctor says and does.
Please don't think I have given up, but at least it is a start. I am going on with my life and my kids lives and if he becomes a husband again in my process then I have won some of my battles. Please everyone keep giving your input and opinions, I am listening and reading away.

Has anyone ever heard that chiropractic care could cause ed improve symptoms, I've tried researching this on line and found nothing that seems to pertain to this. Any ideas

Sounds good!

Baby steps.

A lot of work but as I said at start. I see a lot of potential, but stay focused on mutual happiness as goal.

A

Shykitte, you mentioned that.... "the diabetes meds totally take off any sexual desire or passion"..... What meds does take? How well does he control his blood sugar? Is he overweight? Does he get physical exercise? Does he have high blood pressure, cholesterol or heart trouble? This would give a better picture of the physical situation. If Diabetes is well controlled, it slows the damage to the body allowing people to function normally for years unless there are other conditions present.
**-------------------**

@ MrEasy: He takes Insulin, and a bunch of others like crestor, lorazepam, plavix, janumet, aspirin, etc...

His sugar levels used to be quite high till last year (250s +), but they've come down to the 130' - 160's now. Still a little too high but at least its not over 250 I figure. He doesn't exercise much, a little overweight, and had some heart trouble ten years back and also last year (stents both times).

@ Baty: Good to know your husb's at least going to the doctor and making an effort. I've been pulling back from mine a bit, just feeling a bit depressed because its beginning to sink in that things may not change for us... and I think he's starting to notice. I don't hug him in bed anymore, though its hard not to, but I figured - if he wants physical contact, let him make the move. And he has been hugging me occasionally, but nothing else, nothing intimate at all. Also trying really hard not to feel tempted to have a fling, because I know I'll feel really rotten afterward. Oh well. :)

Shy and everyone: Things are going along OK on my end. We've been busy with the back to school stuff and now varsity football cheer has started for our daughters. Life hasn't entirely changed on my end, the romance hasn't gotten worse but I guess to some extent it has improved, we've had a little more contact than usual, the ed was still there but at least he's trying. We definitely are going more in the last month than we normally would and that's relatively due to me getting ready and he's followed along rather than stay behind. The girls and our son ( who is finished with school and moved back home and thank heavens found a job) has made a little bit of an improvement. They love to go out for dinner and have friends over so the communication seems to be improving. No I'm not saying that we've made major hurdles but baby steps are improvement.

I feel the same way you do shy, I wish sometimes I had it in me to try a fling, however the problems and conflicts that would occur just aren't worth the reprocussions and yes I love my husband and can't imagine the damage it would do to our children, even our married daughter would feel the tremors and effects. So for now I live my life to the best of my ability and hope that eventually things will somehow, someway fall into place with some of the changes we are all trying to make. Even our kids are trying to make things easier for me and that says a lot about how we have raised our children.
Shy I hope things improve for both of us, please keep writing and everyone else for some pointers. Thanks again

Glad to hear it! Its work but glad u are leading. Even if not your ideal, it's a start.

A

Hi Baty, I had opened a separate thread for myself - here's the link:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/adult-sexuality/im-frustrated-because-no-intimacy-marriage-246865.html

There are a couple of good posts on it, if you want to check it out; especially a recent one by metamorph that I liked a lot. Unfortunately, she's a 23 yr old with the same sort of problems, and I thought she had some great points in her post.

Hi Baty, haven't heard from you for a month. How are things?


I wish sometimes I had it in me to try a fling, however the problems and conflicts that would occur just aren't worth the reprocussions and yes I love my husband and can't imagine the damage it would do to our children, even our married daughter would feel the tremors and effects.
Yeah, affairs and infidelities among twenty-somethings have a whole different set if implications than for couples who have raised families together. Also, with a little age and experience it gets easier to predict the consequences of acting foolishly.

So for now I live my life to the best of my ability and hope that eventually things will somehow, someway fall into place with some of the changes we are all trying to make. Even our kids are trying to make things easier for me and that says a lot about how we have raised our children.
Shy I hope things improve for both of us, please keep writing and everyone else for some pointers. Thanks again
My advice is to masturbate regularly. There is an element of use-it-or-lose-it to sexual function. You don't have to feel guilty or self-conscious or apologetic to either your husband or yourself for keeping your sexual machinery (both mental and physical) lubricated and maintained. Does it seem wrong to think of it as "machinery"? Not to me.

Sure, the interpersonal aspects of sexual relations add a whole wonderful dimension to it, when such a relationship is functional. But just because we don't have a functioning sexual relationship with another person is no excuse to let our sexual organs and systems atrophy from disuse. There's a lot of interrelated biochemistry involved, and it's no more healthy to never become sexually aroused than it is to never exert your body enough to preserve muscle tone and cardiovascular function.

Sorry everyone I have been extremely busy this time of year with our daughter and football cheering. Life in general is extremely good. I can't say that all is completely great but actually my husband is trying very hard to rekindle the life that we have. I really can't say what has happened in the last 3 - 4 months to make that occur. However little by little I have seen a big change in him. Like I said back in maybe July we just weren't communicating and had lost touch with each other. I did start to do entirely my own thing with our kids and friends and since that time I have noticed a huge difference in him. I don't know if it was the notion that I wasn't going to sit around and wait for him to make me happy or if was the realization of how much he was missing out on everything.

He has started going back out to dinner with us as a family, for instance before football games he goes with our 21 year old and me to dinner and then we go on to the game and he really has gotten back into the whole family thing. We have started going out with another couple again about every other weekend and have gone dancing again. Which is something we both enjoyed a few years back. He's getting involved in the conversation and I am starting to see my husband as the man he used to be about 2 years ago. We talk in the car now like we haven't in a long time. If you would walk into our house now we all would probably be in the same room enjoying a family conversation or actually watching TV together. He started to enjoy the girls and our son again and started taking them target and clay pigeon shooting with him. They are really enjoying having their dad back.

Well now for the real question. SEX LIFE guess what, it has also improved, He's trying and we have probably tried with success for about five or so times in the last three or four weeks. Hey it's a start and I'm hoping that it stays like this. I am just happy that I have found part of my husband again and hoping that he stays around for a long time. Hey I'm not sure what brought about the whole change but I sure am glad it did.

Whether this was a phase he was going through I don't know, I know the ed is still there but at least we can work around some of that problem and that's what I really am glad about. The closeness and trying are there and that is defineltly a start again.

Excellent! As I said when we began this conversation, it seemed to me that a fling or a divorce was not what you needed. Its having the guts to see reality and acknowledge it. Especially when you have kids and a long marriage. You hit bottom and discovered the guts to go on-on your own if necessary. That is a power you will never lose and was key to your relationship development. He respects that and may be part of why he marries you to begin with-and reminds him that he doesn't want to lose you. Stay strong and never fear speaking what you feel. I think that will mean things can get even better.

Baty, I'm so so happy to know things are better for you! That's so great! (*tear!) :)