Hi,

I work at a hotel that has a 105 rooms in total. For the past several weeks, we've been having some hot water issue. Randomly, the rooms are not getting hot water on the shower however there is hot water on the sink & the tub. Our maintenance worked on the problem for several weeks but nothing has been changed. I researched to find some answer and I came across to this site. Please help!

What brand shower valves does your hotel have? Do they feature pressure and temperature control? Let's have morec details. Type, how old, model? We need as much information as you can give us. Regards, Tom

If you have pressure balanced faucet that the balancing mechanism may be malfunctioning. Do you get ANY water from your shower head?

Milo, You ask,
Do you get ANY water from your shower head? And Bellhop answered,
Randomly, the rooms are not getting hot water on the shower Looks to me like they have cold water out of the shower head but no hot water. But I sure agree about the pressure balancing going bad. Tom

All the rooms gets a water either hot or cold and sometimes extremely hot and extremely cold at a matter of seconds. Water pressure does change if we move the knob from hot to cold or cold to hot. We use the brand called symmons but can't seem to get the model number. I believe the valve was changed no too long ago so it's pretty much new.

Call the plumber that installed that new valve and ask him to double check his installation

Hi, Thank you all for the help. However our hotel is still having the same problem up until now. We called several plumbers and they seem to gave up on us. We recently had a cleanup maintenance on the water heaters & the tank. It seems got worst after that job. We've changed the showers/sink mixers but still it doesn't do us good at all. Now some of the rooms don't get cold and hot water. Pretty frustrated. All the plumbers been telling us is that it must be a mixer problem but I don't think our hotel has a hot/colder mixing valve. Also they been telling us that it could be in the room. The sink faucet that we use has a mixing device so we need to change it. We did that for couple of rooms but it didn't work. Maybe there is clogged some where? Or we need to change the water heaters? Please help!

Do you have copper pipes of galvanized ?
What kind of Water Heater do you have ?
Do you have Hot Water Circulating pump?
What brand of shower and sink faucets do you have ?

If you stirred up sediment in the water heater, than it traveled though your plumbing to your bathrooms. First, clean shower heads and aerators before you do anything !

Do you have copper pipes of galvanized ?
What kind of Water Heater do you have ?
Do you have Hot Water Circulating pump?
What brand of shower and sink faucets do you have ?

If you stirred up sediment in the water heater, than it traveled though your plumbing to your bathrooms. First, clean shower heads and aerators before you do anything !

Yes it's a copper pipes, water heaters are American Standards Dura-Glas & Commercial Hyrojet. Yes we do have a hot water circulation pump. The shower brand is Symmons & and sink is Moen.

Did you clean your shower heads and aerators?

You state that: ".....some rooms don't get hot and cold water..."
Are you saying you don't get any H/C water in those rooms at all - or you get hot or cold only ?
Are those bathrooms far away from each other of back to back ?

Did you clean your shower heads and aerators?
The shower heads are new out of the box. Also what's an aerators? Sorry I don't know what that is. Is it the plate that controls the water flow type?

Ok, we want to start with the easy stuff:

These days, each shower head has built-in flow restrictor to dispense around 2.2 gln of water per minute. The flow restrictor is a washer-like device with one small hole in it ( or several small holes) . They clog up VERY EASILY. Usually, we have to clean them whee we replace heater.

Aerator is a tip at the end of spout at your sink faucet. It is hand tight. Just like with the shower head: they clog up frequently and very easily. They will cut down water to ZERO flow no problem. They have to be cleaned periodically.

Is this your shower faucet ?

Did you clean your shower heads and aerators?

You state that: ".....some rooms don't get hot and cold water..."
Are you saying you don't get any H/C water in those rooms at all - or you get hot or cold only ?
Are those bathrooms far away from each other of back to back ?
Yes some rooms don't even get cold & hot water at all. Meaning no water at all like it's clogged. The room and the bathroom is only 4 feet away.

Ok, we want to start with the easy stuff:

These days, each shower head has built-in flow restrictor to dispense around 2.2 gln of water per minute. The flow restrictor is a a washer-like device with one small hole in it ( or several small holes) . They clog up VERY EASILY. Usually, we have to clean them whee we replace heater.

Aerator is a tip at the end of spout at your sink faucet. It is hand tight. Just like with the shower head: they clog up frequently and very easily. They will cut down water to ZERO flow no problem. They have to be cleaned periodically.

Is this your shower faucet ?

No that's not ours

In those rooms with NO water: do you have tub and shower combination faucet OR shower only ?

It's a Symmons Allura series, shower/tub system

All the bathrooms have Symmons Allura seris, shower/tub system

Is this your faucet ?

Is this your faucet ?
Yes! That's our shower/tub faucet

Usually, tub/shower faucets for commercial applications have "stops" on hot and cold side. In some cases they also consist of small wire mesh like filter. Those stops are hidden under the trim. They HAVE to be open for faucet to get water. Are they open ?

Ok, Symmons web page states that Symmons Allura has Integral Stops. These stops have to be open. Otherwise you will get no water flow through the faucet.

Usually, tub/shower faucets for commercial applications have "stops" on hot and cold side. In some cases they also consist of small wire mesh like filter. Those stops are hidden under the trim. They HAVE to be open for faucet to get water. Are they open ?
Yes

The rooms that don't get cold nor hot sometimes comes back normal and gets cold & hot. It's weird. It looks like someone's making fun of us.

I do understand we have major water pressure problem in the room. We used to use only 1 water heater for entire hotel. However would that effect the pressure problem?

Stupid question: How do you know they are open ? Did you open them yourself ?

Some stops open by setting slot into horizontal position.
Some stops open like a screw: you have to turn them several times counter-clock-wise

Ok, the valves you have are Pressure Balanced valves. That means that there is a piston like device ( or ball like device ) built in that slides (moves ) back and forth with pressure. If that device clogs, it blocks it from sliding easily and it gets stuck in one place.

Stupid question: How do you know they are open ? Did you open them your self ?

Some stops open by setting slot into horizontal position.
Some stops open like a screw: you have to turn them several times counter-clock-wise

I've seen the plumbers opening the line and the water came out however the water was not hot at all. Well it was hot for few seconds and it turned cold instantly. How weird is that!:confused:


Ok, the valves you have are Pressure Balanced valves. That means that there is a piston like device ( or ball like device ) built in that slides (moves ) back and forth with pressure. If that device clogs, it blocks it from sliding easily and it gets stuck in one place.
Since you mentioned it. The valve does move fairly easy when we move it. And one time, it did got stuck so we had to unscrew it to take it out and reinstalled it.

Ok, first we have to establish that you have water coming to the faucet. Therefore:

1. Remove trim
2. Close H/C stops
3. Remove cartridge
4. Crack open hot - then cold - stop. See if water starts shooting out

If you have water coming to the faucet, than the problem is the cartridge. Buy one new cartridge. ( Usually the old one cannot be cleaned. The debris is embedded inside the cartridge itself and is unreachable) Install new cartridge in the body of the faucet. Open stops. It should work.

Ok, first we have to establish that you have water coming to the faucet. Therefore:

1. Remove trim
2. Close H/C stops
3. Remove cartridge
4. Crack open hot - then cold - stop. See if water starts shooting out

If you have water coming to the faucet, than the problem is the cartridge. Buy one new cartridge. ( Usually the old one cannot be cleaned. The debris is embedded inside the cartridge itself and is unreachable) Install new cartridge in the body of the faucet. Open stops. It should work.
Hmm we already replaced the cartidges in all the rooms already.

Now, if you have Hot and Cold water fluctuating - than problem may not be in the faucet. It may be issue with hot water circulating pump loop.

Did the plumbers do anything with rough plumbing ? ( like replacing and resoldering copper pipes any where in the building, replacing shower valves inside the wall ? )

105 rooms: does it mean 105 bathrooms ?

Sorry about asking you all these questions - but I have to get an idea what I am dealing with.

How well are you familiar with you plumbing system ?

But I'll try this first thing in the morning! Thanks.

Sure... come back and let us know what you've found out... Milo

I don't know anything about the plumbing at all. I'm a office manager not a plumber however our maintenance staff worked and worked but we seem to have no luck of finding the solution. That's why we called outside for help. However, calling them just didn't work and we're basically wasting time and money at this moment!

105 rooms: does it mean 105 bathrooms ?
Yes 105 bathroom


Now, if you have Hot and Cold water fluctuating - than problem may not be in the faucet. It may be issue with hot water circulating pump loop.

Did the plumbers do anything with rough plumbing ? ( like replacing and resoldering copper pipes any where in the building, replacing shower valves inside the wall ? )
There was one time where we had to replace the pipe inside the wall because it was leaking water. I don't know if that will effect the entire hotel room because it's just one room that we replaced the pipe.

Has anyone suggested flushing out the water lines? Working on the pipes could have resulted in minerals built up in the pipe wall being dislodged and clogging the system. Hey! Sounds like you've tried everything else. Good luck, tom

You have 2 separate problems:

1. Fluctuating H/C water. This problem pertains to Hot Water Circulating Pump and its loop. This usually becomes a problem when less experienced plumber works on the building and doesn't start up the system the way he should after he does his repairs. Also, he may have crossed hot with cold water lines, burn pump, didn't start up booster pump, etc... There are quite a few possibilities.

2. No water in tub/shower. That should be localized problem and problem should be at the faucet itself ( same applies to sink faucets ). Most likely it is debris in the cartridge or in the small openings inside the faucet. This usually happens when old water heater is "moved" or old rusting pipes are cut with sawzall. Shaking releases rust, rust travels through the system and lodges itself in angle stops, water supplies, tub/shower faucets, shower heads, aerators, etc.

Moreover: if you have 105 bathroom than you have quite an elaborate hot water system. I suspect you have more then 1 pump. You may also have additional 1 or 2 booster pumps on the loop and various shut-off valves and check valves throughout the building. You could also have either another hot water heater (or two ) as a part of your system and/or large hot water storage tank. Single heater would not be adequate for so many bathrooms w/o storage tank.

Lastly: Unless you have some super pump, it sounds to me that one single pump would not be capable of running 105 bathrooms.

Every time we work on big structures, it is quite a procedure to tune up the system and restart it. Hot water circulating loop pipe has to be bled ( remove all air ) so pump circulates water. That itself takes some effort and time.

Is there any way you could call the original plumber and have him to retrace his work ? If he is a professional, he should be responsive.

Hello again,

I'm back with some more questions. The water problem that I asked about, would the check valve cause any damage because we're thinking the valve was installed backward.

I don't think it backward installed check valve would damage anything. Just prevented hot water from flowing the right direction.

But if you have hot water circulating pump on your plumbing system than it would probably burn the pump after while.

I don't think it backward installed check valve would damage anything. Just prevented hot water from flowing the right direction.

But if you have hot water circulating pump on your plumbing system than it would probably burn the pump after while.

That's exactly what happened the circulation pump went dead after few hours. Since the maintenance had to wait for the pump to be delivered tomorrow, what will happen without a circulation pump?

Not too much will happen. Your rooms won't have instant hot water delivery until new pump is installed. Guests will have to wait few moments until hot water arrives in their bathroom. Pump installation should take no more than 1/2 hour.

Important: Make sure to bleed the hot water loop to get rid off any air in the system. Also, after new pump is installed and running, go to the most distant bathroom and open hot water in the sink until uninterrupted hot water pours out of that plumbing fixture.

Not too much will happen. Your rooms won't have instant hot water delivery until new pump is installed. Guests will have to wait few moments until hot water arrives in their bathroom. Pump installation should take no more than 1/2 hour.

Important: Make sure to bleed the hot water loop to get rid off any air in the the system. Also, after new pump is installed and running, go to the most distant bathroom and open hot water in the sink until uninterrupted hot water pours out of that plumbing fixture.

About how long would it take to get hot water because I was in the room like 10-15 mintues and still no hot water at all. I'm talking about entire floor and that's about good 10-15 rooms that are opened

It all depends the lay-out of your hotel and also how the hot water circulating system was laid out to reach all those 105 rooms. It is certainly a large system ( minimum of 210 plumbing fixtures ) and I cannot imagine all these bathrooms are all run on one single pump. If indeed you have only one pump than, yes, it will take quite some time for hot water to arrive. Low flow shower heads and low flow faucets make hot water delivery even worse.

Bellboy, Is there more then one water heater involved? If so how many and what size are they? Also I notice both you and Milo posting separate back to back posts.
This clutters up the thread and takes up space. Please! If you're going to add something to a post don't start a new one. Instead click the edit button and add your comments on to the original post. I've gone in and merged all the posts where you all run multiple posts on top of each other. Thanks for helping to keep the page clean. Tom