Just curious: where did Gore study climatology, anyway? YouTube - Al Gore Debates Global Warming (http://youtube.com/watch?v=XDI2NVTYRXU&feature=related)

Al Gore's Personal Electricity Consumption Up 10% Despite “Energy-Efficient” Renovations
Energy guzzled by Al Gore's home in past year could power 232 U.S. homes for a month

NASHVILLE – In the year since Al Gore took steps to make his home more energy-efficient, the former Vice President's home energy use surged more than 10%, according to the Tennessee Center for Policy Research.

“A man's commitment to his beliefs is best measured by what he does behind the closed doors of his own home,” said Drew Johnson, President of the Tennessee Center for Policy Research. “Al Gore is a hypocrite and a fraud when it comes to his commitment to the environment, judging by his home energy consumption.”

In the past year, Gore's home burned through 213,210 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity, enough to power 232 average American households for a month.

In February 2007, An Inconvenient Truth, a film based on a climate change speech developed by Gore, won an Academy Award for best documentary feature. The next day, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research uncovered that Gore's Nashville home guzzled 20 times more electricity than the average American household.

After the Tennessee Center for Policy Research exposed Gore's massive home energy use, the former Vice President scurried to make his home more energy-efficient. Despite adding solar panels, installing a geothermal system, replacing existing light bulbs with more efficient models, and overhauling the home's windows and ductwork, Gore now consumes more electricity than before the “green” overhaul.

Since taking steps to make his home more environmentally-friendly last June, Gore devours an average of 17,768 kWh per month – 1,638 kWh more energy per month than the year before the renovations. By comparison, the average American household consumes 11,040 kWh in an entire year, according to the Energy Information Administration. The cost of Gore's electric bills over the past year topped $16,533.

In the wake of becoming the most well-known global warming alarmist, Gore's film won an Oscar, and he won a Grammy and the Nobel Peace Prize. In addition, Gore saw his personal wealth increase by an estimated $100 million thanks largely to speaking fees and investments related to global warming hysteria.

“Actions speak louder than words, and Gore's actions prove that he views climate change not as a serious problem, but as a money-making opportunity,” Johnson said. “Gore is exploiting the public's concern about the environment to line his pockets and enhance his profile.”

The Tennessee Center for Policy Research, a Nashville-based free market think tank and watchdog organization, obtained information about Gore's home energy use through a public records request to the Nashville Electric Service.

Tennessee Center for Policy Research (http://www.tennesseepolicy.org/main/article.php?article_id=367)

The Nobel prize committee should be ashamed. They have turned what used to be an international honor into a bad joke!

Not only that, given our current situation and the "don't drill" democratic stand, even his own party is wishing now, that he didn't give that speech yesterday.

The American Physical Society (APS), which represents 50,000 physicists, now proclaim that many of its members disbelieve in human-induced global warming.


"There is a considerable presence within the scientific community of people who do not agree with the IPCC conclusion that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are very probably likely to be primarily responsible for the global warming that has occurred since the Industrial Revolution."

APS Physics | FPS | Editor's Comments (http://www.aps.org/units/fps/newsletters/200807/editor.cfm)

They are sponsoring a public debate on the validity of the global warming science.Lord Monckton of Brenchley, fired the opening salvo with a paper which concludes that climate sensitivity ;the rate of temperature change a given amount of greenhouse gas will cause ;has been grossly overstated by IPCC modeling.
APS Physics | FPS | Climate Sensitivity Reconsidered (http://www.aps.org/units/fps/newsletters/200807/monckton.cfm)

David Hafemeister and Peter Schwartz from from Cal Poly San Luis Obispo make the counter point argument in favor of the IPCC conclusion .
APS Physics | FPS | A Tutorial on the Basic Physics of Climate Change (http://www.aps.org/units/fps/newsletters/200807/hafemeister.cfm)

The point of this is that finally the idea of having "settled science" on climate change/global warming has been debunked. Perhaps now public policy can also be debated in a more rational manner

Back to the Goracle... so what is the price tag of his latest proposal ?

James Pethokoukis of the' US News and World Report' says it would cost $5 TRILLION. That's slightly less than half of the total US GDP;10 % of the total world GDP.

Dissecting Al Gore's $5 Trillion Energy Plan - Capital Commerce (usnews.com) (http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/7/18/dissecting-al-gores-5-trillion-energy-plan.html)

Hello again, tom:

It's like I said before... When I was a kid, we used to throw our trash in the streets because we thought it didn't matter. However, we found out it DOES matter. When I was in the Navy, we used to throw our trash off the fantail of the ship because we thought it didn't matter. But, we found out it DOES matter.

Now, we're throwing tons of trash into our atmosphere every day and you don't think it matters?? Dude! Where you been?? I think you DRANK the koolaid!

excon

No one is "for" pollution, that's just crazy.

The evidence shows that as the temperature changes on earth, an equal change takes place on all the other planets as well.

Earth goes up by 2 degrees, so does Mars, Venus, Saturn... you get the idea.

Earth goes down by 2 degrees... same thing happens.

So, when the scientists can show how the fumes from my SUV, effect the temp on all theses other planets, then I would be more willing to take responsibility for causing Global Warming.

Until then, I have to believe it is just another way for the liberal environmentalists to control capitalism, which we all know they despise, and another way to try to make us feel guilty for actually enjoying our prosperity.

What really gets me is the fact that Al Gore can 'buy carbon credits' so he 'has a license to pollute' IF he was REALLY concerned about global warming he would cut back not make polluting a money making scheme where he is entitled to pollute and we are expected to ride bikes to work while he flies all over the world.
Pure hypocrisy, IF we want to stop so called man made global warming the carbon credits should be for future generations NOT Al Gore's benefit.

Just curious: where did Gore study climatology, anyway?
To me that is an irrelevant question... I don't care if there are question marks to his point of views.

What is important is that Al Gore was the one who - at least in the US - brought the climatic problems due to human pollution of this planet into a full active debate.

In Europe we already seriously started that debate in the 1970's after the EU report of the "Club of Rome" and followed that up with the 1997 Kyoto agreement.

The US failed to address their similar problems (they never even signed the Kyoto agreement) till Al Gore pushed it into the lime light.

Right or wrong on the CO2 argument : Al Gore was instrumental to the awareness people in the US have now of the pollution problem, the resulting global warming, and it's consequences ! That is relevant!!

:rolleyes:

·

I am VERY grateful that PRESIDENT Bush has (so far at least) refused to sign on to the KYOTO. We don't need that kind of economic disaster to satisfy some ignoramus' panic over something we have no control over.

We don't need that kind of economic disaster to satisfy some ignoramus' panic over something we have no control over.
You may of course think so...

But there is more to consider here : approx. 6,4 Billion people share this planet. And the 350 Million or so US Americans have shown too long that they do not care a bit about equally sharing the resources this planets offers, while wasting more energy pro-head than anyone anywhere else on earth. The resulting global warming is involving all humans and all other life on earth.

It is inexcusable and immoral that US Americans demand their "right" to pollute, while at the same time "stealing" away the planet's limited resources for their own use only, specially as they do so by paying with money that is in fact not theirs, but is "borrowed" from many other nations on earth.

As to the topic question : Al Gore was - as I already stated - instrumental to the awareness people in the US have now of the pollution problem, the resulting global warming, and it's consequences ! That is relevant!!

:rolleyes:

Just curious: where did Gore study climatology, anyway? YouTube - Al Gore Debates Global Warming (http://youtube.com/watch?v=XDI2NVTYRXU&feature=related)


George 1950, thanks for the you tube link.



Here is another.

YouTube - Americans for Prosperity Crashes Al Gore's Speech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESxvY1tQHTo)


See the last minute or so to see if Al Gore truly practices what he preaches.

You may of course think so...

But there is more to consider here : approx. 6,4 Billion people share this planet. And the 350 Million or so US Americans have shown too long that they do not care a bit about equally sharing the resources this planets offers, while wasting more energy pro-head than anyone anywhere else on earth. The resulting global warming is involving all humans and all other life on earth.

It is inexcusable and immoral that US Americans demand their "right" to pollute, while at the same time "stealing" away the planet's limited resources for their own use only, specially as they do so by paying with money that is in fact not theirs, but is "borrowed" from many other nations on earth.

As to the topic question : Al Gore was - as I already stated - instrumental to the awareness people in the US have now of the pollution problem, the resulting global warming, and it's consequences ! That is relevant !!!

:rolleyes:


How do you address India's or China's CO2 emissions, or is your screed only directed at the USA?

As to the topic question : Al Gore was - as I already stated - instrumental to the awareness people in the US have now of the pollution problem, the resulting global warming, and it's consequences !

That is what is relevant!! All the rest is steer manure, heaped on by people with opposing views.

:rolleyes:

So before Al Gore, we did not know about pollution? Or do you mean co2 "problem."

I remember this commercial from the early 70s

YouTube - The Crying Indian Commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4ozVMxzNAA)

So before Al Gore, we did not know about pollution? Or do you mean co2 "problem." I remember this commercial from the early 70s
I did not claim that at all : I stated very clearly (see post #9 - 01:40 AM) :

Right or wrong on the CO2 argument : Al Gore was instrumental to the awareness people in the US have now of the pollution problem, the resulting global warming, and it's consequences ! That is relevant !!!

Before Al Gore pushed this, there was hardly any general awareness of the problem, and that all these problems are related!! Even today there still are a lot of people who insist that tornado's have more to do with "the Lord" than with human greed and disrespect for nature. Both pollution and CO2 production have effects on global warming.

:rolleyes:

·

Daily Musings: We Need MORE CO2, Not Less (http://dailymusings.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!EBAB74DA8F94C559!5300.entry)

Greenhouse Carbon Dioxide (Co2) Enrichment Products at Home Harvest Garden Supply (http://www.homeharvest.com/carbondioxideenrichment.htm)

It's like I said before... When I was a kid, we used to throw our trash in the streets because we thought it didn't matter. However, we found out it DOES matter. When I was in the Navy, we used to throw our trash off the fantail of the ship because we thought it didn't matter. But, we found out it DOES matter.

Now, we're throwing tons of trash into our atmosphere every day and you don't think it matters?? Dude! Where you been?? I think you DRANK the koolaid!


Ex
Like I said to your previous retort:


Because I think that this is the new version of Y2K
Even though there are hundreds of scientists who doubt the conclusion ,anyone who disputed it gets branded a charlatan . Especially galling is that the high priest of the movement in no way practices what he preaches . What ? The Goracle traded in his carbon consuming mansion for a grass yurt ? I don't think so.

What they propose as a solution is draconian ,and even if possible without wrecking the economies of the developed world ,will take a longer then they claim we have.

The history of the climate that we have recorded shows periods of warming and cooling much more severe than what is predicted . Was there SUVs driving around when Greenland was green ?

Conservation and cleaning the air are worthy goals without this pretending that what is best a hypothesis is "settled science" .

To me ;the kool-aid drinkers are the ones who take the words of the Goracle on faith . Are all those scientists at APS kool-aid drinkers also ?

What really gets me is the fact that Al Gore can 'buy carbon credits' so he 'has a license to pollute' IF he was REALLY concerned about global warming he would cut back not make polluting a money making scheme where he is entitled to pollute and we are expected to ride bikes to work while he flies all over the world.
Pure hypocrisy, IF we want to stop so called man made global warming the carbon credits should be for future generations NOT Al Gore's benefit.

Indeed ! In fact; it is the Goracle who owns the companies he buys carbon credits from. Essentially he takes money out of his right pocket and puts it into his left pocket ;says a mea culpa and proceeds to blow carbon out of his a$$.

Al Gore - the high priest of environmentalism - just a pop scientist?
Just curious: where did Gore study climatology, anyway? That was the topic question !

Essentially "Gore" takes money out of his right pocket and puts it into his left pocket ;says a mea culpa and proceeds to blow carbon out of his a$$.
Comments like these are not relating to the topic, and are basically dishonorable and aggressive personal attacks on Gore.

As I stated already several times before : all that is relevant here is that Al Gore was the one bringing the global warming problem to the people : he was instrumental to the awareness people in the US have now of the pollution problem, the CO2 problem, and the resulting global warming and it's consequences ! That is relevant!! All the rest I see in this topic is neurotic steer produce !

:rolleyes:

Hello Cred:

If these righty's don't like the message, the just shoot the messenger.

excon

Hello again,

Way back in the 40's, someone had suggested that we invest heavily in a project that MIGHT result in a bomb that could win the war and save the world.

If the project had been made public, I'm sure the righty's would be saying the same thing. I'm sure they would be attacking those guys as scientific buffoons as they're doing now.

Maybe guys on the right are born with their heads in the sand.

excon

Hello again,

Besides, I'm not sure why the righty's ARE against doing something... If, for NO OTHER REASON, than it will reduce the Arab role in our future. THAT, and that alone should get them on board.

I don't understand... They WANT those Arabs to be in charge of us?? Don't make no sense to me.

Plus, a change like this COULD be and probably WILL be the economic stimulus that puts us BACK on the economic map. After all, we're really good at making NEW technology, that turns into NEW business, that makes NEW money. We LIKE that stuff, don't we??

Sure, there's the OLD industry that complains when they're out of fashion. I'm just surprised that they have so much support... Maybe the righty's are all OLD.

excon

If the project had been made public,

If the project was ongoing today the NY Slimes would leak the details even if it weren't made public.

Ex ;I have been pointing to their fellow scientists who are questioning the high Priest's scientists.


Besides, I'm not sure why the righty's ARE against doing something... If, for NO OTHER REASON, than it will reduce the Arab role in our future. THAT, and that alone should get them on board.

I don't understand... They WANT those Arabs to be in charge of us?? Don't make no sense to me.

Plus, a change like this COULD be and probably WILL be the economic stimulus that puts us BACK on the economic map. After all, we're really good at making NEW technology, that turns into NEW business, that makes NEW money. We LIKE that stuff, don't we??

Sure, there's the OLD industry that complains when they're out of fashion. I'm just surprised that they have so much support... Maybe the righty's are all OLD.


Tell me when the government invested such vast sums of money on sociatal restructuring on a hunch by scientists. Normally they gamble on the word of social scientists and social engineers true enough .

You will not find any of us who are opposed to energy independence. What makes you think that any of this stuff is more than just theoretical . I've seen the government in action . In Boston they had problems digging a tunnel . I suggest that before he leads us like a pack of lemmings to a place he dreams of he pull out his calculator and honestly tell us what sacrifices he is demanding of us.Who has the power and the money to totally redirect 60% of our entire economic output and plowing it into an endeavor to prevent the sky from falling.

Everything boils down to BTU's - electricity, solar, oil, it all basically creates heat to move something or manufacture something. Oil brings it in prodigious quantities, wind and solar is minuscule.

Tomder says: "Normally they gamble on the word of social scientists and social engineers true enough ."
Al Gore is a mystic and a politician out of power. He is a big-stakes gambler, as long as the stakes aren't his. The economy is his objective and he's betting with fear of CO2. He is a desperate power monger, out of power. YouTube - Global Warming (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=iyqOQp-MHN4&feature=related)

He is a desperate power mongerHello George:

I don't know. He WOULD be the Democratic nominee, and he would be the next pres if he wanted power.

Sooooo, he turned down the most powerful job in the Universe... Maybe power's not his game.

excon

Hello George:

I dunno. He WOULD be the Democratic nominee, and he would be the next pres if he wanted power.

excon
That's your assumption, your opinion, and you're welcome to it. He got his a$$ beat once and he doesn't want it beat again. Besides, he'ld have to take a cut in pay.

.... He is a desperate power monger, out of power.
And the back-up for that statement is a YouTube movie...
Which makes you a wild claim monger with your own hidden agenda...

:rolleyes:

·

One of the problems with the issue of global warming, and it should more rightfully be called the cycle of global warming and cooling, is that this is one of the issues where politics and science are intertwined. You can't really expect a politician to be an expert on the environment, unless that is where their educational expertise happens to be. Asking Al Gore about the environment is kind of like asking a baker how to make shoes.

Anybody that can not take a good look at Al Gore's lifestyle of being a global warming hypocrite sure can't see what its all about.

The facts on his usage are horrible!!

Hello again,

I took a course once. The guy who wrote it was very popular... People loved him and loved what he had to say... Then the guy got into trouble. All of a sudden, people hated him and hated what he had to say...

Personally, I didn't care. I took the course because it was a good course - not because of him. It wasn't a GOOD course because of the guy who wrote it, and it wasn't a BAD course because of the guy who wrote it. The guy who wrote it was irrelevant.

Global warming IS or ISN'T happening. It ISN'T happening because the people on the left love Al Gore, and it ISN'T crap because the people on the right hate him.

HE has nothing to do with it. HE is irrelevant. I don't support HIM. I don't support his CLAIMS. I simply say, that NOT throwing our trash into our atmosphere IS a good idea. And, NOT because of CLIMATE CHANGE either. If moving to alternate fuels winds up stopping someone's perception of global warming, then it's a BONUS for us cleaning up our sky.

As mentioned earlier, if we attacked this energy crisis with the entrepreneurial spirit we have, we'll wind up creating MORE jobs than will be LOST by the death of the old oil infrastructure. It'll STOP the flow of our money to the Arabs who use it to make war on us.. It'll STOP us from having a reason to make war on them. It'll allow us to regain our leadership in the world... But, most important of all, it'll make me happy.

For THOSE reasons, among many others, we should address the problem. It doesn't matter what Al Gore says, or what you think of him. Do you value your country? Are you a patriot? Do you cherish your children's lives?

Look. I don't know if Al Gore is right or not. I don't care. All I know is that we're going to run out of oil. Who, in their right mind, think that it's going to get any cheaper as it gets scarcer?? Who, in their right mind, think we're going to leave ANY of it in the ground? Who, in their right mind, think we're not going to build nuclear power plants? Who, in their right minds, think we're going to give up our cars?

We were faced with an oil crisis in 1973. What'd we do?? Tripled our imports of oil. This crisis has been building for a long time. The wars we're involved in are a direct result of our NEED FOR OIL. Are we going to ignore this again?

SCREW Al Gore. Do it for the exconvicts of the world!

excon

Bravo! Bravo!

What a great post, YEAH, I liked it.

I even have this picture, of your little guy avatar, standing on a stage, fist clenched in the air, as he SHOUTS that last line!

Seriously, you are right, mostly.

I still say there is NO REASON NOT TO...

Drill now, Drill here, and pay less!!

One theory is that we are being lied to and that oil replenishes itself so it will never run out.
BUT of course the government would NEVER want us to KNOW THAT!

I am VERY grateful that PRESIDENT Bush has (so far at least) refused to sign on to the KYOTO. We don't need that kind of economic disaster to satisfy some ignoramus' panic over something we have no control over.

So Europe and the rest of the world that have signed Kyoto are ignoramus's?? Typical!!

American Thinker Blog: Kyoto Schmyoto (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2007/12/kyoto_schmyoto.html)



If we look at that data and compare 2004 (latest year for which data is available) to 1997 (last year before the Kyoto treaty was signed), we find the following.


Emissions worldwide increased 18.0%.
Emissions from countries that signed the treaty increased 21.1%.
Emissions from non-signers increased 10.0%.
Emissions from the U.S. increased 6.6%.
In fact, emissions from the U.S. grew slower than those of over 75% of the countries that signed Kyoto.



We're BETTER than Kyoto... nah nah nah :D

Nohelp The theory the Russians have evidently adopted about oil coming from tectonic movement rather than the decay of carbon matter is worthy of further study.The whole Peak Oil concept could be bogus .

Excon

There has to be some realistic basis for this sociatal transformation .I understand your point but consider the conversions in the past. We used to light our houses and streets with whale oil . Then Edison through his experimentation created a marketable alternative. But the transformation from whale oil to electric transmission did not happen until it was proven to be a viable alternative. Only then was the infrastructure put in place to make it widely available .

Eventually I think solar cells will be able to capture enough energy to make them a viable alternative .
But we do have clean and proven effective alternatives now that we refuse to invest in .Why is that ? Why don't we extract the trillions of cubic meters of natural gas we have in reserve ? It is a clean burning alternative to oil and coal . Why are we not investing in nuclear power ? The French Breeder reactors provide almost 80% of the countries electricity needs . It recycles the waste so there is very little dangerous waste to store.

We can do this now . I have seen no evidence that a major transformation to solar and wind could replace our energy needs in 50 years ;let alone 10 years. If you challenged a child to complete college by the time that child is 12 . The challenge is most likely going to be ignored as unrealistic. If however you argue that we should move gradually towards a goal of energy independence from renewable sources as they become viable ;then I think you are speaking to a willing audience. The scientist on the Manhattan Project knew the goal was achievable ;and so did the NASA engineers . But Gore sees Orville and Wilbur Wright get their plane off the ground and then says ,we must land on the moon in 10 years.

From his 'Meet the Depressed ' interview Sunday

Tom Brokow :


The reaction was pretty quick and not all of it was favorable, even from those who are aligned with you in thinking that we have to do something about climate change. This is what Philip Sharp, president of Resources for the Future, a Washington think tank, had to say. "At this point I don't think there's anyone in the industry who thinks that goal, as a practical matter, could be met. This is not yet a plan for action; this is a superstretch goal." Your friends at MIT, the Energy Initiative Group up there, and they have some radical ideas as well. They said, "Can we do it this quickly? It would be very, very tough." What you have outlined, in fact, is a goal that may not be achievable.


Gore ;without answering the question about it being possible went into his standard Chicken-Little sky is falling rhetoric about us not having more than 10 years . He then goes on to make your argument that the pay back would be worth the cost;ignoring the astronomical costs that every American would have to pay in the interim. He says he would restructure THE ENTIRE TAX COLLECTION SYSTEM to pay for the transition. So now a new tax structure is to be included in his complete transformation of American Society . Chairman Mao and Joseph Stalin (both 5 year plans )would be proud!!

Al Gore lies to us . He says his 10,000 square-ft. "yurt" is carbon neutral (or some such bs. ) But the truth is that he uses about 191,000 kilowatt hours per year while us average schmoes average 15,600 kilowatt-hours per year. So yeah ; the messenger is important . What you say he isn't ? Then why do people point out the hypocrisy of other high priests when their conduct doesn't match their rhetoric ?

Al Gore lies to us . He says his 10,000 square-ft. "yurt" is carbon neutral (or some such bs. ) But the truth is that he uses about used about 191,000 kilowatt hours per year while us average schmoes average 15,600 kilowatt-hours per year. So yeah ; the messenger is important . What you say he isn't ? Then why do people point out the hypocrisy of other high priests when their conduct doesn't match their rhetoric ?
That doesn't even include the high fuel costs for his plane and SUV's

He says he would restructure THE ENTIRE TAX COLLECTION SYSTEM to pay for the transition. So now a new tax structure is to be included in his complete transformation of American Society . Chairman Mao and Joseph Stalin (both 5 year plans )would be proud !!!!!

Mao, Stalin, and Hitler; I have no use for Ross Perot (or Boone Pickens, for that matter), but he would say, "The devil's in the details." So, what would Gore do with so many Americans who would just tell him to "drop dead!"? Hillarycare was going to prosecute them and doctors; "land of the free, home of the brave"? Gore and his left-wing friends are out of control, at this point, and appear to have no concept of individualism and freedom (life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness).

I simply say, that NOT throwing our trash into our atmosphere IS a good idea.
Precisely excon ! It is not the messenger : it is the message that is important.
Whatever your views on global warming etc. it does not hurt to reduce pollution of atmosphere and oceans other than may be in the pocket.
And if you take the unfair usage of energy in the world into account, there is nothing to say against more sharing of all remaining resources on a fair scale.

;)

If we look at that data and compare 2004 (latest year for which data is available) to 1997 (last year before the Kyoto treaty was signed), we find the following.
Emissions worldwide increased 18.0%.
Emissions from countries that signed the treaty increased 21.1%.
Emissions from non-signers increased 10.0%.
Emissions from the U.S. increased 6.6%.
In fact, emissions from the U.S. grew slower than those of over 75% of the countries that signed Kyoto.
We're BETTER than Kyoto... nah nah nah :D
No wonder if you relate the US wasting to the situation in Europe, where we have been following a limiting campaign for energy consumption and pollution already since the late 1970's (Club of Rome report).

Better stop the "we're better than Kyoto....nah nah nah" US chest beating, and return to reality...

:rolleyes:

And if you take the unfair usage of energy in the world into account, there is nothing to say against more sharing of all remaining resources on a fair scale.
;)
Huh?

No wonder if you relate the US wasting to the situation in Europe, where we have been following a limiting campaign for energy consumption and pollution already since the late 1970's (Club of Rome report).

Better stop the "we're better than Kyoto....nah nah nah" US chest beating, and return to reality .....

:rolleyes:


Tell that to the environmentalists that are against nuclear power.

Huh?
Yes George !
The average US American consumes pro rata 2 x more energy than the average European who lives a similar lifestyle.

:rolleyes:

Who do you propose to serve as umpire?

Who do you propose to serve as umpire?
All I stated (on your request in search for enlightenment) is that the average US American consumes pro rata 2 x more energy than the average European who lives a similar lifestyle. No need for some umpire : that is a fact !

:rolleyes:

Yeah ;and they let their grandmothers die in sweaty apartments in Paris while they drive to the Sea on vacation.
USATODAY.com - France heat wave death toll set at 14,802 (http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2003-09-25-france-heat_x.htm)

Pro rata per population that would be as if 75,000 Americans died in the summer from the heat.

pro rata per population that would be as if 75,000 Americans died in the summer from the heat.
Air conditioning is hardly ever required in Paris. You refer to once-only extreme hot conditions. Normally a fan and an open window suffices. So you are drawing incorrect conclusions, specially with the comparison to American deaths.
But that is not unusual for you to do...

In countries like France, Belgium, Holland, and Denmark, there are many waterways and dikes/levies. Based on your "logic" and referring to New Orleans we should have millions of people drowning here year after year. But they don't...

:rolleyes:

Really ? How many Cat. 5 storms hit the dykes of Holland ? I don't even think the flood of 1953 approached that strength.

By the way back then of course 1,835 people were killed in the Netherlands ,307 were killed in the United Kingdom ,and 28 were killed in Belgium. Another 200+ were killed in boats etc.The Schielandse Hoge Zeedijk dyke was almost breached and had that happened 3 million people would've been affected .

During Katrina where levies were breached 1,836 people lost their lives . But that was a cat. 5 hurricane . North Sea Storms although violent ,do not reach that intensity .

Comments like these are not relating to the topic, and are basically dishonorable and aggressive personal attacks on Gore.

As I stated already several times before : all that is relevant here is that Al Gore was the one bringing the global warming problem to the people : he was instrumental to the awareness people in the US have now of the pollution problem, the CO2 problem, and the resulting global warming and it's consequences ! That is relevant !!! All the rest I see in this topic is neurotic steer produce !

:rolleyes:
And if those that control him would not have wanted him to distract the people from other things, he would not even have gotten the chance to make this idea public.
It was time to get people's attention off other crucial subjects that frustrated them (they needed placating) and he was the one that was told to do it. PERIOD.
The politicians, worldwide, want us to believe that we are to blame for the climactic changes, but guess what, evolution did not stop in the year 2000 and it never will, no matter who wants to blame it on 'the people' just for more monetary gains to companies supposedly coming up with ideas to correct what we did wrong. It was also election time throughout and those that contribute all those Euros and Dollars are industrial companies - and they don't give a darn if this planet is still here 25 years from now - they want their contracts, that all. Now, that's the real cow dung! I enjoyed puppet shows as a child, but as an adult, I demand to be able to think for myself, thank you.


http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_11_2.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYMXDE)

It was also election time throughout and those that contribute all those Euros and Dollars are industrial companies - and they don't give a darn if this planet is still here 25 years from now - they want their contracts, that all. Yup that's a large part of the problem indeed.

Precisely excon ! It is not the messenger : it is the message that is important.
Whatever your views on global warming etc. , it does not hurt to reduce pollution of atmosphere and oceans other than may be in the pocket.
And if you take the unfair usage of energy in the world into account, there is nothing to say against more sharing of all remaining resources on a fair scale.

;)

So you would have no problem with preachers that cheat on their wife while they are preaching to the church that they will go to hell if they cheat?
I can't believe Credo that you of all people accept the hypocrisy when it seems you preach your hatred of hypocrisy. I don't see how you can separate the message from the messenger.

If you tell everybody that they are killing all the fish in the water and they are to not dump their poisons in the water and then you keep dumping three times more poisons in the water than any of the others ever did HOW can you be taken seriously by anybody?

So you would have no problem with preachers that cheat on their wife while they are preaching to the church that they will go to hell if they cheat? Well while were on that subject - what *did* happen to all those pedophile priests? Did you campaign to have them prosecuted to the full extent of the law?

I say/said they should be

Well while were on that subject - what *did* happen to all those pedophile priests? Did you campaign to have them prosecuted to the full extent of the law?

Unfortunately some people are protected still, no matter how many lives they've ruined on earth. They have more rights than their victims.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_2.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYMXDE)
So, we go figure... again and again, and again.

Chery
Exactly it!

During Katrina where levies were breached 1,836 people lost their lives . But that was a cat. 5 hurricane . North Sea Storms although violent ,do not reach that intensity .
Simply NOT TRUE!! The real cause of the New Orleans disaster was NOT Katrina, but long time mismanagement and lack of maintenance of the levies.

:rolleyes:

Simply NOT TRUE !!! The real cause of the New Orleans disaster was NOT Katrina, but long time mismanagement and lack of maintenance of the levies.

:rolleyes:

I know this is way beyond the title of this thread, but circumstances here just got 'my dander' up.

OK, I'm getting on my soap-box now, and this is only my opinion, but I believe that I am an average human being with the intelligence to figure out some things on my own without the assistance of your arrogance.
I wish you would use some of your energy and direct it toward those profiteers and war-mongers who are using Africa as a proving ground for years with conventional and biological weapons.

I don't think you give a darn about the people who's lives were lost in New Orleans or the lives lost in Europe through the mud-slides, or in the Tsunamis in past years. You just want to be 'right' all the time.

Yes, there is mismanagement going on all over - where the profiteers think only of themselves.
Those that allow people to build nearer to rivers than what normally the law would allow because there was a lot of money to gain. We don't control the river-flow, but love to control the money-flow.

We don't control the storms and know they are getting worse, but we love to control the money-flow here again in that these profiteers could actually plan ahead and foresee what property will be at high risk. Hey, that makes it easier than asking the population you no longer want in the area to sell their property and move (that would cost more), so you wait for a storm and calculate the damages because you have plans for that geographical area.

Profiteers work from one end of the world to the other - be it an Island or a Continent - and the losses are calculated as 'collateral damage'.

But, you, make it sound as if it is exclusively an American trait... and this is where I think you are overdoing it.

The Chinese flooded an entire geographical area without thinking of what the 'people' wanted and calculated the damages. And if it were not for the Americans, Europe would be speaking chinese sooner than planned - and I think it will actually happen, because I believe that this is a long-term plan and has been for years. Ah, the beauty of capitalism from that area... it's just sneaking up starting with industrial espionage, taking over banks, sending their students to European schools and before you know it.. (just start learning the language so that you get a headstart).

Let us not forget the EU, South America, Mexico, Korea, etc. Oh, and Venice will probably wind up the modern-day Atlantis and we can watch it happen.

Hey, if you're lucky there might be some money in it for you currupt politicians and profiteers of the world. You know who you are, and probably look down on us average 'people' because we don't count in your scheme of things to come. Just because I can't fight you, does not mean that I am unaware or dumb.

Again, evolution will take place whether we want it or not.. Unfortunately corruption and profiteering will take place too and some are trying to correct this but it will not happen overnight and certainly not without fear of being assassinated by those that don't like interfering in their plans.

I am also sure that the people in Canada and the United States are aware of internal issues and are seeking ways and means to correct them - without needing your constant berating. We do that all very well on our own, thank you. Instead of berating, we start learning more and educating the leaders of our future (our children) as best as we can without inbreeding hate wherever possible.

Do you have children, and what do you teach them??

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_11_2.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYMXDE)

I know this is way beyond the title of this thread, but circumstances here just got 'my dander' up.
...

Do you have children, and what do you teach them????

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_11_2.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYMXDE)
Trust, but verify.

All I stated (on your request in search for enlightenment) is that the average US American consumes pro rata 2 x more energy than the average European who lives a similar lifestyle. No need for some umpire : that is a fact !:

A fact which means what? How is it unfair that Americans consume more energy than others? Per Capita consumption according to this Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_energy_consumption_per_capita ), Americans use 7794.8 kgoe/y. Let's look at the other leaders:

Qatar: 21395.8
United Arab Emirates: 10538.7
Bahrain: 10250.5
Luxembourg: 9408.8
Netherlands Antilles: 9198.5
Kuwait: 9076
Trinidad and Tobago: 8555.1
Canada: 8300.7

Let's hear it for Qatar, they use nearly 3 times the energy per capita than Americans. Three other Middle Eastern countries, Luxembourg, a Dutch territory and our good neighbors to the north all use more energy than Americans. Let's direct the complaints toward the real energy hogs like Qatar, Luxembourg, Canada and The Goracle shall we?

WOW!

I am SHOCKED at those numbers!

Canada has a land area of aprox. 9,093,507 sq. miles.

The United States has a land area of aprox. 9,161,923 sq. miles.

That is VERY close in the total area of land per country.

However:

Population of Canada July 2007 aprox. 33,390,141

Population of United States July 2007 aprox. 301,139,947

I would say those numbers show that the United States is pretty darn good, at conserving energy, wouldn't you?

It is no use trying to convince Cred that other countries are worse than America on some things. He said years ago that America was the worst offender of polluting this planet and I posted stuff saying some places in China were and he insisted I was wrong that America wasn't the worst offender.

Linfen, China: This city of more than four million is in the heart of Shanxi, China's coal-production hub, and has frequently been deemed the most polluted city in the world; citizens suffer from choking clouds of coal dust as well as drinking water polluted with arsenic. But Linfen is not the only city in the country with environmental woes—the World Bank estimates that 16 of the world's 20 most polluted cities are found in China's industrial areas.

Runners up:
Haina, Dominican Republic;
Ranipet, India;
Mailuu-Suu, Kyrgyzstan;
And Rudnaya Pristan, Russia

It is no use trying to convince Cred that other countries are worse than America on some things.

I know Sapphire, why let facts get in the way of some good ol' anti-American outrage?

It is no use trying to convince Cred that other countries are worse than America on some things. He said years ago that America was the worst offender of polluting this planet and I posted stuff saying some places in China were and he insisted I was wrong that America wasn't the worst offender.

Linfen, China: This city of more than four million is in the heart of Shanxi, China's coal-production hub, and has frequently been deemed the most polluted city in the world; citizens suffer from choking clouds of coal dust as well as drinking water polluted with arsenic. But Linfen is not the only city in the country with environmental woes—the World Bank estimates that 16 of the world's 20 most polluted cities are found in China's industrial areas.

Runners up:
Haina, Dominican Republic;
Ranipet, India;
Mailuu-Suu, Kyrgyzstan;
and Rudnaya Pristan, Russia
I know, honey, but I just had to let my American half in me put it's 2-cents worth in because I'm sick and tired of hearing frustrated individuals using the US as a scapegoat for their problems.
No country is perfect, but most realize that there is room for improvement and some continue to brainwash.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_16.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYMXDE)
That's what lets people like Hitler emerge throughout history. It's sad.

I know, honey, but I just had to let my American half in me put it's 2-cents worth in because I'm sick and tired of hearing frustrated individuals using the US as a scapegoat for their problems.
No country is perfect, but most realize that there is room for improvement and some continue to brainwash.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_16.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYMXDE)

Exactly

I'm sick and tired of hearing frustrated individuals using the US as a scapegoat for their problems.


Your about to hear 100,000 Germans do that while BO makes his campaign speech with a backdrop that Hitler was particularly fond of using .

Your about to hear 100,000 Germans do that while BO makes his campaign speech with a backdrop that Hitler was particularily fond of using .Congratulations you've enacted Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law). See also Reductio ad Hitlerum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum)

Seems to be what I see liberals doing when they yell fascist conservative.
I never see that backed up with anything.

Your about to hear 100,000 Germans do that while BO makes his campaign speech with a backdrop that Hitler was particularly fond of using .

Yeah and the McCain camp caught Obama speaking out of both sides of his mouth (http://johnmccain.com/mccainreport/Read.aspx?guid=49e95f45-610f-44b4-8ace-0ede8620fad3) yesterday on an issue we've both raised concerning the hypocrisy on the left:


Obama today at Yad Vashem:


“Let our children come here and know this history so they can add their voices to proclaim ‘never again.’ And may we remember those who perished, not only as victims but also as individuals who hoped and loved and dreamed like us and who have become symbols of the human spirit.”

Obama on July 20, 2007:


Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said Thursday the United States cannot use its military to solve humanitarian problems and that preventing a potential genocide in Iraq isn’t a good enough reason to keep U.S. forces there.

“Well, look, if that’s the criteria by which we are making decisions on the deployment of U.S. forces, then by that argument you would have 300,000 troops in the Congo right now — where millions have been slaughtered as a consequence of ethnic strife — which we haven’t done,” Obama said in an interview with The Associated Press.

Obama says we can't use the military for humanitarian intervention, tells the Israelis "never again" and then jets off to speak from one of Hitler's favorite backdrops, has the gall to quote the mayor of Berlin on persevering toward freedom in telling the world to "do your duty," but cannot force himself to admit the surge is working and commit to sticking around Iraq long enough to ensure "never again" for the Iraqi people?

Your about to hear 100,000 Germans do that while BO makes his campaign speech with a backdrop that Hitler was particularily fond of using .
Good thing I have this site, movies and cable TV and can choose not to watch this historic event. I have not listened to the news either concerning B.O's visit or upcoming speech. And, when the germans around me start talking about the subject, I'm out of there! That's my way of avoiding the ignorance that will only frustrate me - just because I'm too old and physically weak to bother dishing out some of my emotions. Besides, they'd only be wasted on those who would not have lived so prosperous the last 50 years without the US's support.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_18.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYMXDE)

seems to be what I see liberals doing when they yell fascist conservative. Where did you get THAT from?

Besides, they'd only be wasted on those who would not have lived so prosperous the last 50 years without the US's support.


Right on! I have frequently said that without the American defense umbrella ,Europe could never've afforded the nanny-state they concocted .

Congratulations you've enacted Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law). See also Reductio ad Hitlerum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum)

Over the past 8 years it seems to be one of the left's most popular trespasses.

Ads compare Bush to Hitler (http://www.washtimes.com/news/2004/jan/05/20040105-114507-1007r/)

Bush and Hitler Compare and Contrast (http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen01312003.html)

31 Similarities Between Hitler and President Bush (http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles3/Jayne_Hitler-Bush.htm)

Bush Family Nazis (http://ecosyn.us/Bush-Hitler/)

Bush-Hitler: Hypnotizing The Masses (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6528.htm)

Bush IS Hitler (http://bushiler.wordpress.com/)

What's your point, NK? How many times have you trespassed?

NK

In the last day I was accused on the other site of being fascist . That has been a frequent charge levelled against the right .
I think words like "Bush*tler " have become part of the vernacular.

{stupid editing function on site would not let me add the "i" to the word.}

Guys, you're all over the place. It's not about fascism and it's an old Usenet meme that's directed at the workings of a discussion board. Did you not even read it?

Where did you get THAT from?

Choux says it all the time and Look at the Bush*itler links speech just posted.

The tactics are the same from the left only different terms
Whether you use socialist, fascist or whatever it is all the same name game and the left seems best at playing it.

Choux says it all the time and Look at the Bush*itler links speech just posted.

The tactics are the same from the left only different terms
whether you use socialist, fascist or whatever it is all the same name game and the left seems best at playing it.https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/whats-happening-u-s-241044-post1169853.html#post1169853

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/politics/what-connection-between-obama-communist-party-234064.html#post1132312

Also see speechlesstx #72 this page links...

Guys, you're all over the place. It's not about fascism and it's an old Usenet meme that's directed at the workings of a discussion board. Did you not even read it?

You're right it, isn't about fascism. It's about double standards... which is what we were addressing.

You're right it, isn't about fascism. It's about double standards ... which is what we were addressing.What double-standards?? Did you read the link? It's only about the workings of threads in a discussion board, it doesn't even mention liberal or conservative!

It is a double standard simply because each side is using the same tactics and pointing fingers. So over all it is double standard on each sides part.

It is a double standard simply because each side is using the same tactics and pointing fingers. So over all it is double standard on each sides part.Ok, here's the definition:

Godwin's Law is often cited in online discussions as a caution against the use of inflammatory rhetoric or exaggerated comparisons, and is often conflated with fallacious arguments of the reductio ad Hitlerum form.

The rule does not state whether any reference or comparison to Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the probability of such a reference increases over time. It is precisely because such a comparison may sometimes be appropriate that Godwin has argued[4] that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.

In one of its early forms, Godwin's Law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions.[5] The law is now applied to any threaded online discussion, including electronic mailing lists, message boards, chat rooms, blog comment threads, and wiki talk pages.
Where is the double-standard?

Okay with that it is not referring to Dem or Rep but in the context where you posted it sounded like you were singling out Rep

This worth a read from the UK press. A bit old but still relevant. Nigel Lawson was Chancellor of the Exchequer.

The REAL inconvenient truth: Zealotry over global warming could damage our Earth far more than climate change | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-557374/The-REAL-inconvenient-truth-Zealotry-global-warming-damage-Earth-far-climate-change.html)

Zealotry over *anything* is bad! This is no different. What's required is a metered thoughtful approach.

This worth a read from the UK press. A bit old but still relevant. Nigel Lawson was Chancellor of the Exchequer.

The REAL inconvenient truth: Zealotry over global warming could damage our Earth far more than climate change | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-557374/The-REAL-inconvenient-truth-Zealotry-global-warming-damage-Earth-far-climate-change.html)

Glad to see somebody else that gets it... and that is just the tip of the iceberg:D

I heard the UK isn't falling for the global warming lie so easily.

I say it is a money making scheme that they are eventually going to use to start taxing and charging us for. They already said that cars are going to start having to have a CO2 sticker along with the emissions and any state inspections stickers. Then they are starting to charge for permits to barb que in your own backyard and they will find more much more.

And the leftists in the US complain about the war against drugs filling-up the prisons; where they going to put all the offenders?

They will just take all the offenders carbon credits away from them.
In my state the drug dealers are home with the 'ankle bracelet' while the dead beat dads are doing time for non payment of child support.

I heard the UK isn't falling for the global warming lie so easily.

I say it is a money making scheme that they are eventually going to use to start taxing and charging us for. They already said that cars are going to start having to have a CO2 sticker along with the emissions and any state inspections stickers. Then they are starting to charge for permits to barb que in your own backyard and they will find more much more.
Agreed!

Let us not forget to charge extra tax on beans and bean-eaters because they produce an abundance of gas. Then we should target all the cows and pigs too. It may sound silly, but someone will come up with this idea, I'm sure.

I'm not saying that the world should not work on being a little cleaner - but that takes cooperation and not placing fault. And we could prepare for evolutionary change, but not by putting money in the pockets of those who don't give a darn.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_11_2.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYMXDE)

For sure that IS what they ARE headed for.
They are already trying to pass laws that if you are overweight you are not going to be allowed to eat at restaurants. I have been wondering how they are going to determine overweight. Like if you are 168 lbs and same height and same build as your best friend but they happen to be 173 or you going to be allowed to go to restaurants but not your friend?

I think this one has run out of steam, I'm going to cancel my subscription for now, but before I go, no offense George_1950, but I think I noticed a spelling error in the title to your post?

Shouldn't it have read:

Al Gore-the high priest of environmentalism-just a "poop" scientist!

I think this one has run out of steam, I'm going to cancel my subscription for now, but before I go, no offense George_1950, but I think I noticed a spelling error in the title to your post?

Shouldn't it have read:

Al Gore-the high priest of environmentalism-just a "poop" scientist!You made a 'poop' joke. Now we know what kind of mind we are dealing with.

You made a 'poop' joke. Now we know what kind of mind we are dealing with.
If previous posts are any indication of what kind of a mind we are dealing with,
Your's don't speak very well of your mind either.

Besides, poop and Al Gore, just belong together, it is such a natural pairing I couldn't let the opportunity pass without mention, that's all.

Honestly, I couldn't care less what you or any of the other left leaning folks think about me, or my mind.

If that was a lame attempt at an insult... you missed.

Another inconvenient fact: "Anchorage could hit 65 degrees for fewest days on record... The coldest summer ever? You might be looking at it, weather folks say."
Gloomy summer headed toward infamy: Life | adn.com (http://www.adn.com/life/story/473786.html)

I know Pittburgh Pa is the coldest dampest summer I have ever seen in 53 yrs!
I have been begging global warming believers for the past couple years to PLEASE send me the global warming.