So I think from my (admittedly somewhat limited) dating experience, I've come to the following conclusion:

If there is such a thing as an all-around "nice guy" he's rare.

What's a lot more common are guys who are pretty obviously jerks, or else guys who most people /think/ are nice because they're nice to their female friends and maybe their girlfriends, but they still manage to screw over other women in ways that no one besides those women are really aware of.

Thoughts?

My thoughts the nice guy is dying (keep in mind I am a guy) I think its because so many women just take the jerk and refuse to leave. I have a friend who is cheating on her boyfriend right now and she won't leave him. The sad thing I went through the same thing with this girl and she didn't leave him. In my mind this is part of the reason for it. I have stopped a lot of bad habits to be with a girl only to lose to some punk that cheats on her. This could also be a reason for it.

Yea, sometimes I think that all the nice guys are already snagged up and married now by my age 23.. sucks, but I'm trust God that I will find the right guy if it isn't my ex

I read a nice article today about the "nice guy" It said that girls want value. Jerks value themselves (why they are jerks) Gentlemen value themselves + the lady. "Nice guys" don't value much/putt he women on a pedistle.

If the nice guy is rare it's only a reflection of women...

Women raise them that way and/or they date women who allow/settle for "bad" behavior.
I hear and know of women who reinforce this behavior all of the time (by settling for not so great guys and their BS) so it isn't surprising that when we women accept this behavior it creates a vicious cycle...

Yea I know from experience and experience is making me wonder why I bother trying to be the nice guy

I have to agree!! I was a nice guy... but I think from all BS women put me through, I killed the nice guys and became a total me first... however, I evaluate peeps and with time I let them get a little bit of niceness... well big big mistake... I guess... be nice is not bad.. but putting the girl up as if she is a goddess, that bad... I m pretty confident, and don't really have problem getting girls, but I once I fall too deep... I lose myself... so I have learned to be nice and yet put myself first... just so that the girl doesn't think that she my all in all... KAPIGE?? there are nice guys out there... but they just got really clever because they got screwed over and over... hahaha

"Women raise them that way and/or they date women who allow/settle for "bad" behavior."

Umm... men raise boys too, you know. You can't blame women for everything (well, you can try, I s'pose, god knows a lot of guys do)

gg23: Being nice isn't putting a woman on a pedastal. And it isn't putting yourself first. It includes being honest, straightforward, thinking and caring about how your actions might affect others' feelings.

Toluca... trust me I take it you speaking from a women's perpective? huh?. well let me tell that being honest, straighforward, thinking and carting how my actions might affect other's feelings... I have done all that... and you know where that took me?? well being heart broken over and over... don't get me wrong... or maybe I'm just dating the wrong one?? I don't think so... I think young immature women like the popular say.. that I like the bad boys etc... thats when they are still young and blooming... while us men get to pay for those BS... then with age, has men continue to look better with age, which is not the case for women, after they sick of being treated like... and ready to settle, then the go shopping with nice guy or good man... because they are going to have their back... I think women get in and out of relationships for selfish reasons... and they turn so cold blooded that you wonder if it's was the same person you just spent years with... so I know what I'm talking about from experience...

In short, many men out there get so sick and tired of all the BS women put us through that we just grow desensitize... and don't like to put up with BS... and nowadays why do you think that men are staying away from marriage these days huh?? because they don't want to end up with someone who turns out to be a Pshysco later on...

"toluca...trust me i take it you speaking from a women's perpective??huh??...well let me tell that being honest, straighforward, thinking and carting how my actions might affect other's feelings...i have done all that...and you know where that took me ???well being heart broken over and over"

This is /the vast majority of women's/ experience with dating, yet most women (at least all women I know) continue to try and embody these traits anyway. Maybe that's part of the problem. Guys think it's unfair if they ever have to suffer any pain, whereas women just expect that they'll have to suffer at least some pain, and a lot of the time will even blame themselves for it.

No I am not saying that guys don't expect to suffer any pain... love and pain when it comes to relationship are like two side of a coin... pain is inevitable when there is love... I tried despite all the heart breaks... I honestly think though that some of the reasons I have given or some of my guys friends have been told by their girls are really just plain RIDICULOUS... but don't worry even guys do expect that... I guess we just deal with it in a different way... I mean there are some really seflish reasons... and women once they are interested in someone else, they drop you cold turkey... thats just wrong...

NO ONE IS PERFECT! The sooner you realize that the better off you are. Even Prince Charming farts... lol You just have to figure out what you are willing to tolerate in man and find the closest match. Everyone has good days and bad, peaks and valleys...

I think women accept this no nice guy attitude because they are afraid to approach a guy and therefore they do not see any nice guys because a true nice guy does not approach a woman unless he knows her or sees a real interest that she may have in him but in reality the nice guy is afraid of coming off as a jerk because so many men portray themselves that way by hitting on every woman they see

"i think women accept this no nice guy attitude because they are afraid to approach a guy and therefore they do not see any nice guys because a true nice guy does not approach a woman unless he knows her or sees a real interest that she may have in him but in reality the nice guy is afraid of coming off as a jerk because so many men portray themselves that way by hitting on every woman they see"

I'm not talking about before you're getting to know someone, as you seem to be. I'm talking in terms of how a guy treats all the women he actually knows.

And dmaildocs: I'm not looking for Prince Charming. In fact, I think I have a pretty high tolerance for human imperfection. I just happen to think there's a big difference between being imperfect and being totally inconsiderate of certain peoples' feelings (lying for selfish reasons, etc.). And I guess when I was talking in my OP about guys who "most people /think/ are nice" but who screw over certain women that's what I was referring to.

Toluca_86, I am a woman myself and my words were "Women raise them that way and/or they date women who allow/settle for "bad" behavior"

I understand that there are single dads out there and women who raise there sons to be "nice guys" that's why the or is in that quote... because if this beahvior isn't learned from home it is learned in relationships (with women) where men are allowed to be "bad" because their woman is afraid to leave or stays because of low self esteem etc. (I've seen and heard it all, there's always an excuse)

I happen to believe that people learn how to treat you (when you set the standard for what you will and will not accept), so if a woman is constantly dating bad guys she should evaluate herself first. SHE has a choice in those relationships too and SHE should not stick around for undesirable behavior!

I think this philosophy works both ways though but I think women settle for the "wrong guys" more often which only reinforces this bad behavior.

If a guy knows he can "misbehave" in a relationship and his girlfriend will cry, argue and make him miserable for a day or two only to remain in the relationship because she LoveS him and can't move on to a better man... why would he change his behavior? There is no real consequence there... That's where women contribute to this Bad Guy Problem, not all but some women.

It is the attitude, promoted by feminism, that men are no longer needed by women that has contributed to the loss of the nice guy.

It has also contributed to the unhappiness of women in general.

It has taken away from women, ALL of the things that for generations, were the things that made them feel worthwhile, and overall, happy.

It has demonized the act of raising children, taking care of a home, and a husband, and turned that into the actions that will keep a women from ever being happy or feeling fulfilled in life.

A guy can only run into so many of these liberated women, before the nice guy starts building walls to prevent the pain associated with trying to please these bitter women.

Just my thoughts, excuse me while I button up my suit of armor, and prepare for the attacks to follow my post.

The following are not my words. But this is someone who USED to be a nice guy and the reason why he isn't anymore. Again these are not my words!! But I do agree with these words.



What happened to all the nice guys?

The answer is simple: you did.

See, if you think back, really hard, you might vaguely remember a Platonic guy pal who always seemed to want to spend time with you. He'd tag along with you when you went shopping, stop by your place for a movie when you were lonely but didn't feel like going out, or even sit there and hold you while you sobbed and told him about how horribly the (other) guy that you were ing treated you.

At the time, you probably joked with your girlfriends about how he was a little puppy dog, always following you around, trying to do things to get you to pay attention to him. They probably teased you because they thought he had a crush on you. Given that his behavior was, admittedly, a little pathetic, you vehemently denied having any romantic feelings for him, and buttressed your position by claiming that you were "just friends." Besides, he totally wasn't your type. I mean, he was a little too short, or too bald, or too fat, or too poor, or didn't know how to dress himself, or basically be or do any of the things that your tall, good-looking, fit, rich, stylish boyfriend at the time pulled off with such ease.

Eventually, your Platonic buddy drifted away, as your relationship with the boyfriend got more serious and spending time with this other guy was, admittedly, a little weird, if you weren't dating him. More time passed, and the boyfriend eventually cheated on you, or became boring, or you realized that the things that attracted you to him weren't the kinds of things that make for a good, long-term relationship. So, now, you're single again, and after having tried the bar scene for several months having only encountered players and douche bags, you wonder, "What happened to all the nice guys?"

Well, once again, you did.

You ignored the nice guy. You used him for emotional intimacy without reciprocating, in kind, with physical intimacy. You laughed at his consideration and resented his devotion. You valued the aloof boyfriend more than the attentive "just-a-" friend. Eventually, he took the hint and moved on with his life. He probably came to realize, one day, that women aren't really attracted to guys who hold doors open; or make dinners just because; or buy you a Christmas gift that you mentioned, in passing, that you really wanted five months ago; or listen when you're upset; or hold you when you cry. He came to realize that, if he wanted a woman like you, he'd have to act more like the boyfriend that you had. He probably cleaned up his look, started making some money, and generally acted like more of an @$$hole than he ever wanted to be.

Fact is, now, he's probably getting laid, and in a way, your ultimate rejection of him is to thank for that. And I'm sorry that it took the complete absence of "nice guys" in your life for you to realize that you missed them and wanted them. Most women will only have a handful of nice guys stumble into their lives, if that.

So, if you're looking for a nice guy, here's what you do:

1.) Build a time machine.
2.) Go back a few years and pull your head out of your @$$.
3.) Take a look at what's right in front of you and grab ahold of it.

I suppose the other possibility is that you STILL don't really want a nice guy, but you feel the social pressure to at least appear to have matured beyond your infantile taste in men. In which case, you might be in luck, because the nice guy you claim to want has, in reality, shed his nice guy mantle and is out there looking to unleash his cynicism and resentment onto someone just like you.

If you were five years younger.

So, please: either stop misrepresenting what you want, or own up to the fact that you've ed yourself over. You're getting older, after all. It's time to excise the bullsh*t and deal with reality. You didn't want a nice guy then, and he certainly doesn't ing want you, now.

Sincerely,

A Recovering Nice Guy

Spitvenom,

Your post is very accurate.. It's hurtful and brutal but true..

Let me give you all some insight on the woman's side to this...

I have been in the situation where a "nice guy" friend of mine was there for me when I was sad when I was dating a "bad guy" that was good looking and all.. the nice guy was my shoulder to cry on, he talked to me and made me feel better, and honestly, I just didn't see him "that" way.. He was clingy and too emotional and honestly not my type looks wise.. sooo eventually I got over the "bad" guy and stopped being friends with the "nice" guy because his feelings for me starting to become evident, and I didn't want to hurt him anymore..

My point is, yes, nice guys are there and most girls use them, BUT, us women are intitled to be with someone that we are physically attracted to or are compatible with.. and if that "nice guy" doesn't do it for us, we aren't going to go for it.. it's the truth, sorry.. us women never ASKED for you to be our door step, we don't intentionally want to step all over you, you men make those choices yourself! You don't have to stick around.. us women have other friends that can console us..

So "nice men" can still be nice, but can have their boundries too.. and then they won't be put in that "friend" "needy-emotional" category that us woman subconsciously put them in.. If a "nice guy" is confident and is strong, and doesn't let women cross the line, then I would be so much more inclined to date them, even if I wasn't quite attracted to them physically.. does that makes sense? Because I for sure am done dating the gorgeous guys that have lots of problems and issues.

"Your post is very accurate.. It's hurtful and brutal but true.."

Hahahahahahahaha.

"You used him for emotional intimacy without reciprocating, in kind, with physical intimacy. You laughed at his consideration and resented his devotion. You valued the aloof boyfriend more than the attentive "just-a-" friend. Eventually, he took the hint and moved on with his life. He probably came to realize, one day, that women aren't really attracted to guys who hold doors open; or make dinners just because; or buy you a Christmas gift that you mentioned, in passing, that you really wanted five months ago; or listen when you're upset; or hold you when you cry. "

Nice guys aren't guys who think they're owed sex for having to listen to your problems, or being a friend, or whatever. Please see the definition of nice I posted above, if you want to know how /I'm/ defining a nice guy. I'm attracted to people who I /think are nice/ according to my definition, and then I get rid of them when they turn out to not be so nice. So basically, your theory is pretty bogus as it relates to me.

"If you were five years younger."

If I were 5 years younger I'd be illegal. Again, nice try. You can't blame all your problems on women, and you can't blame women for why you're an a-hole. I think in general I try to be nice to everyone, and I /still/ don't blame all my problems or my failings on men.

For toluca_86.

Aren't you late for your N.O.W. meeting?

I'm not a member of N.O.W. But if you meant that as an insult, it didn't really come across as one. (Feministing (http://www.feministing.com) on the other hand, I do like a lot).

I'm just speakin' the truth though bro'... legal history as it is on the books and everything -sorry if you can't handle that.

If you could point out the "legal history" in any of your posts, I believe I can handle it.

Just the fact that you totally dismiss how feminism "may" have changed the role of woman in the home, and that the effects that has on society in general have been harmful, not only to women, but to men and children as well, then you are not living in reality at all.

It is however, no surprise to me, given your young age, that the feminism has been very effective in shaping your thoughts and beliefs, so when it comes right down to it, your replies only prove my point.

Thank you.

Guys think it's unfair if they ever have to suffer any pain

Where did you get this idea from?

"If you could point out the "legal history" in any of your posts, I believe I can handle it."

Like I mentioned the fact that prior to the 1970s, it was legal for a husband to rape his wife. And you can go back and read court cases where judges dismissed cases for that reason.

Feminism did a lot for women's rights in the work place and political sphere and also for their rights to not be abused physically or sexually (again, talking mainly legally here), but that doesn't mean it might not have contributed to certain other things getting complicated. But please, I know so many women who grew up before feminism who were abused physically and/or sexually by men, were cheated on, etc. even if they didn't tell anyone about it at the time -I'm really tired of the "good old days" myth.

But I know plenty of stay-at-home moms who are also feminists. And there are plenty of non-feminist men who are very disrespectful of housewives. So I don't think your generality really stands up so well.

"It is however, no surprise to me, given your young age, that the feminism has been very effective in shaping your thoughts and beliefs"

"the feminism"? It's "feminism", not "the feminism". And yeah, I think due to feminism I probably have higher standards in guys than I would otherwise -expect a certain level of honesty and respect, expect them to respect my boundaries, etc. But if you think that's a bad thing, I'm afraid there's no room here for conversation.

"Where did you get this idea from?"

From the poster who said he was no longer a nice guy because women broke his heart. I guess I should have said "a lot of guys". And even still, I wasn't sure it was true -it was meant to be more of a hypothetical.

You know Toluca, you seem to be very argumentitve.. yeah yeah yeah you have a right to your opinion blah blah but YOU are asking us for advice and we're giving it, you can take it or leave it.. stop being so defensive! (I'm also talking about the other question that you posted where I gave my opinion and got shot down from you)

I wasn't looking for a political debate here either. I'm pretty sure you're the one who started the political stuff, at least from my perspective. So now we can stop discussing the feminist movement and get back to discussing /people as they exist in reality currently/, thanks.

And please no more "it's women's fault if men are a-holes" talk. Plenty of men, women, and even children go through hard, unfair situations and manage to not take it out on innocent people from there on out.

"And please no more "it's women's fault if men are a-holes" talk."

I actually agree with this, my only reason for posting is to point out the fact that people can only treat you badly if you allow them to (by allowing them to come into and remain in your life)... I think it's easy to say, 'Men are just dogs' but when are women going to stand up for themselves?

If every woman in a bad relationship just walks away from their abusive or not so great boyfriend or husband and then he moves on and treats the next woman the same and she walks away and this pattern repeats it's self surely this man will learn the error of his ways or accept a single lifestyle but too many women will accept "bad" behavior and the man learns nothing!
It's not our job to 'teach'... and
Surely they aren't justified in having this bad behavior/attitude but women can't just play the victim either after all if we aren't a part of the solution we too are part of the problem... I just wanted to explain how some women contribute... by not having a backbone!

progunr, just wanted to clarify what I was agreeing with, after rereading your post I realized you were blaming Feminism for some things that aren't exactly related...

I agree that some women do disagree with having the traditional lifestyle that some men think they have to provide. Our society has changed and roles are reversing but for better or worse Feminism isnt the culprit...

I'll speak from experience and say that some women in my family look at the things you described as simply being an 'Independent Woman' and this is particularly apparent in Black culture (from what I've seen) because of the lack of successful or even the presence of a Black male influence in families more Black women are "doing it for themselves" so to speak.
They are more educated and better employed than their male counterparts so the thought of giving the male a superior or more traditional role isn't likely because the feeling is "I can do what you do and BETTER!"

I can see how this type of behavior may push some men away so that's why I was agreeing and I also read the post too quickly ;)

Hope this clears things up...
By the way I am black and german (This is what I've seen in my family and friends).

"If every woman in a bad relationship just walks away from their abusive or not so great boyfriend or husband and then he moves on and treats the next woman the same and she walks away and this pattern repeats it's self surely this man will learn the error of his ways or accept a single lifestyle"

Well, except when you consider that there are more abusive men than women, possibly more a-holes who are men than women as well, that leaves a lot of women single as well as it leaves a lot of men single. Maybe if every woman was willing to go without sex for a long period depending on a guy's behavior, this would work -but it seems awfully fictional to me, kind of like that Greek play where women withhold sex until the men agree not to go to war. On an individual basis though, myself (and many women) /do/ break up with a guy if he starts treating us badly. Then he either goes and finds a woman who will put up with it, /or/ he finds a woman he's smitten with and suddenly turns into a great boyfriend. Either way, the first woman in this scenario has already been hurt, even though she walked away. In the latter case, she will probably feel hurt again. This guy, on the other hand, is not necessarily going to change.

Clearly you're missing the point. Whether women unite and all leave a bad relationship (not going to happen), withhold sex (very unlikely) or whatever... the point is women should stop putting up with unwanted behavior! And Until/Unless more women take on that role then they really shouldn't complain because "if we arent a part of the solution we too are part of the problem..."

Are you sure you aren't here just to argue your position?

You seem to be very pessimistic towards men and (me?) although I am not arguing against you just offering the flip side to this scenario... it is only realistic to evaluate each person's role in this, especially considering... we can't change anyone's behavior but our own. You do understand that plenty of women contribute to this behavior you describe (if not look around this site!)?

There is a big difference between what women SAY and THINK that they want, i.e "A nice calm guy" and what women actually are uncounsciously and consciously ATTRACTED to, which i.e can be "The bad boy sort of guy/player".

Many people miss out on this. :)

Okay,

I got to the point where this post became a personal attack and stopped reading. I do want to post my opinion, however:

First off, I am not going to blame women for the change in men or men for the change in women, in a social sense. I do however think that the actions of women STRONGLY influence the actions of men later in their life.

What I mean is this: Women like to complain that there are no nice guys left (I know I am generalizing, so no, not everyone, but you know what I mean). At the same time, men like to complain that women don't like the nice guy. Women claim to want the nice guy, to wish they had someone who would treat them nice, not be an @$$hole constantly and generally treat them like they are worth something more than sex.

The problem: When women find this, they aren't happy. I know plenty of guys who would be considered nice guys, but since they don't do enough of treating women like sh!t, they don't get the attention from them. Why? I have no idea, but there seems to be a strong correlation between how much abuse a guy can give out and how much attention he gets from women. I'm sure some of you don't want to hear that, but don't tell me it isn't true.

I myself have, at times, been disillusioned by the apparent lack of attention that being nice will get a guy. I wouldn't by any means consider myself a needy or desperate individual, but the simple fact that if I want attention from a lot of women I have to put on the front that I am at times ignoring them. I can't explain this, but it certainly seems to be true.

This turned into more of an unorganized rant than anything, but it certainly seems to me that respect and being nice gets you nowhere until you have done your fair share of being an @$$hole and have finally gotten someone interested.

So I have a question, mainly for the women. Am I truly way off the mark here? Is the frustration felt by many men (the nice ones) senseless? Is there really no basis for it? Or, perhaps, is it true that women use phrases like "mysterious" and the "thrill of the chase" to mask the fact that regardless of the amount of complaining, they enjoy the poor treatment...

Hi Big Bird,

I know this is a tough one, and we women are hard to figure out. You know, being a woman, I have had my ex husband, boyfriends, and guy friends ask this so many times, and honestly this is a tough question, and yet interesting question. I can't answer this for all women out there, but I will let you know my thoughts on this from myself... Okay, here we go..

I always want a nice guy, I am big on a man being faithfull to me, and respectiful. Where the 'bad boy' aspect comes in (I hate even using that term) is in addition to the above characteristics, I love when the man in my life is protective, stands up for me, defends me' kind of that 'knight in shining armour/warrior' characteristic. That slight toughness, which makes me feel secure. (I think it is fair to say that most women if not all like the security a man offers). So if I guy has a type of bad a$$ in him, (Not a bad a$$ towards me) it makes me feel, again in addition to the rest of the qualities, sexy, secure, and loved.

I hope this kind of made sense.

but there seems to be a strong correlation between how much abuse a guy can give out and how much attention he gets from women. These women that are attracted to men that dish out abuse are the ones I don't want to meet. They somehow seem 'defective' to me. I'm a nice guy who married a nice girl. She was attracted to my extroverted nature (she's more of an introvert) but never once did I ever treat her bad. Now we have two great kids and a good life. Hey women, get jerked around by the 'bad boys', us nice people will sit on the sidelines and enjoy the show. :)

Hm. I'm a nice guy.. . I think I answered your question.

Hi Sneezy!

How are you. And yes, by reading your posts since I've been here, you are a nice guy :)

These women that are attracted to men that dish out abuse are the ones I don't want to meet. They somehow seem 'defective' to me. I'm a nice guy who married a nice girl. She was attracted to my extroverted nature (she's more of an introvert) but never once did I ever treat her bad. Now we have two great kids and a good life. Hey women, go ahead and get jerked around by the 'bad boys', us nice people will sit on the sidelines and enjoy the show. :)


Agree, I like that. Those women certainly aren't the ones you want to get involved with.

Starlite - I agree 100% that a guy should be able to support and stand up for his girl - that's not what I meant by @$$hole. I was referring more along the lines of the girls that love the guy who goes out, gets drunk and wants to fight anyone and everyone... what sense does that make??

So I think from my (admittedly somewhat limited) dating experience, I've come to the following conclusion:

If there is such a thing as an all-around "nice guy" he's rare.

What's a lot more common are guys who are pretty obviously jerks, or else guys who most people /think/ are nice b/c they're nice to their female friends and maybe their girlfriends, but they still manage to screw over other women in ways that no one besides those women are really aware of.

Thoughts?
We're a dying breed, that's for sure. Been married twice, so there are a few rough edges, but as I've aged I realise the world does not revolve around me. It revolves around my friends, and damn (pardon the french) it is a lot nicer place nowadays. Maybe its an age thing, maybe men grow up a lot later in life? Who knows? I wish you luck in finding one of us. We're in the phone book, try looking under 1-800-NICE-GUY?

Sorry this is me being flippant... poor sense of humour!

Agree, I like that. Those women certainly aren't the ones you want to get involved with.

Starlite - I agree 100% that a guy should be able to support and stand up for his girl - thats not what I meant by @$$hole. I was referring more along the lines of the girls that love the guy who goes out, gets drunk and wants to fight anyone and everyone....what sense does that make???

Hi Big Bird,

Sorry about that, I went on a course of my own ;). I have no idea as to why some women enjoy that type of guy. I think that type of man is beyond a&&hole status. The women that find these men attractive, my be real insecure, and feel that they can't do any better, I suppose. I don't get it either, BB

Hmm having read a couple of the other posts. Maybe humour was the wrong thing to inject. Soz all! (oh well both feet in it again!)

I swear the nice guys are all already married or in a relationship.
The nice guys that are left get on your nerves. Like they are clingy, obsessive, annoying perfectionists or something about their character that is just aggravating.
You have to look for a nice balance of fun, great personality and treats you decent.

I totally agree with the above post, the "nice guy" is great when he balances himself.. they DO get needy and obsessive if they aren't balanced...

I think a healthy woman would like a "nice guy" to be nice to her and treat her right, but also want him to have confidence and protect her, like starlite said.. it's all about balance.. us women crave for a man to be a man, that's just in our blood... that's how God made men, that's how they're soposed to be!

us women crave for a man to be a man, that's just in our blood... that's how God made men, that's how they're soposed to be!So how is a woman supposed to be?

Confused and full of bs? MAYBE?

Not helpful GG you're never going to find a girl if you think that

How do you expect women to be NeedKarma? And believe me, I know your issues with people who believe in God, I don't want to get in a heated argument about that

How do you expect women to be NeedKarma? and believe me, i know your issues with people who believe in God, I don't want to get in a heated arguement about thata) I don't have issues with people who believe in god, I have issues with fanatics of anything that condemn others.
b) women are individuals, just like men, that's my view.

But if you have an all-encompassing view how men should be then I assumed that you also had a view of how women should be, it would only be fair, no?

I like pampering a guy but they always end up taking me for granted and thinking I am
Weak or something. So I guess how a guy treats you can have a bit to do with how you treat them but being the nice girl can backfire on you because they mistake your devotion as meaning they can walk all over you.

I personally like a man to be masculine, and I'm sure men like women to be feminine.. that's what I meant, that women and men were made with those characteristics..

So that's my opionion, I like manly men..

So I think from my (admittedly somewhat limited) dating experience, I've come to the following conclusion:

If there is such a thing as an all-around "nice guy" he's rare.

What's a lot more common are guys who are pretty obviously jerks, or else guys who most people /think/ are nice b/c they're nice to their female friends and maybe their girlfriends, but they still manage to screw over other women in ways that no one besides those women are really aware of.

Thoughts?

Such a good point. My ex boyfriend would probably fall under that category. He was always shmoozing salesgirls, shmoozing waitresses, doing extra favors, and even bringing gifts for other women he wasn't even dating. Mostly the gifts were before dating me, but still he bragged to me about it. Yes, he thought he was a really 'nice guy'. And I'm sure a bunch of strangers and platonic friends of his think so too. But I felt I should have been more special than a bunch of other random women.

Thank you starlite! Sometimes people make you feel like you're alone in this way of thinking. Because of course your boyfriend, is acting like such a nice guy to every female on the planet, so they don't see what the problem is! And the boyfriend, he gets plenty of praise and approval from these people so he doesn't care what your feelings are.

BTW, this is why I have an issue with the statement that 'If you want to judge a potential mate, see how he treats service staff." It's just not that simple, and not that 'black and white".

I mean, sure, OBVIOUSLY, if they're unnecessarily MEAN to them, then that's a problem; but if they're unnecessarily NICE, that could be a problem, too!

Yes, he thought he was a really 'nice guy'. And I'm sure a bunch of strangers and platonic friends of his think so too. But I felt I should have been more special than a bunch of other random women.

Yeah that is something how they HAVE to have their friends and acquaintances approval as all around Mr. Nice Guy but could care less that you have to call them a jerk because that is all the better they treat you. Been there, dealt with it!

I hear you nohelp!

There is no such thing as a nice guy, females invented that term to get there boyfriends to comply with there wishes.

There is no such thing as a nice guy, females invented that term to get there boyfriends to comply with there wishes.

Guilt Trip?

I use sweetheart for the complying
I say nice for unexpected things they do
:D

I think the "nice guy" idea is crap.

EVERY guy that's ever dumped you or a friend unfairly (at least to YOUR mind) is a jerk, regardless his reasons for doing it.

I think that every PERSON out there is a mix of selfish and giving--if you fall too far on EITHER side of a balance of that, you're either going to be a jerk or TOO nice (which means you're a pushover and boring or whatever).

There are plenty of great guys out there--but not all of them are "nice". I think too many girls have visions of Prince Charming living inside every guy and it just needs the right woman to draw that out of a guy. Guess what? No guy is perfect!

Want to know how you can tell if a guy is nice "enough" to date long term? See how he treats his mother. You can tell a LOT from how a guy treats the woman who raised him.

That's like what I was saying it's all about the balance... guys really need to hear that! It's the secret to what women want!!

that's like what i was saying it's all about the balance... guys really need to hear that!! it's the secret to what women want!!!!!Sadly most of the time woman don't know what they want themselves.

Very very true NeedKarma.. I'm mainly talking about healthy women who respect themselves.. the yknow what's best for them

I know that it is not hopeless, and there are wonderful men out there. Unfortunately, the flowers are hidden by all the weeds. You just have to clean up your garden... Was that enough cliche'd metaphors for you?? He does exist. It just takes time. I've gotten myself a great one. We've been together for years, and we have a wonderful connection. Sure we argue... that is human... the thing is, when one of us is the antagonist, the other maintains calmness and reasoning. Somehow, it's like we take turns being unreasonable! Yet, we have a way with each other that just soothes out all the bumps, and a "fight" doesn't ever last. We communicate so openly that there is nothing lingering to fight over. And it is true what they say about holding hands. If the hands fit together, it's meant to be. Our hands fit like gloves. He does exist... don't give up...

that's like what i was saying it's all about the balance... guys really need to hear that!! it's the secret to what women want!!!!!

Not sure I'm a huge fan of the idea that the men need to do the work to attract the women... Sure, its work on both side,s but I hate to think the men need to put all the effort into attracting the women while the women sit back and watch - almost makes you wonder if its worth it :p

I think the key for me is that a 'real nice guy', to me, is one who is nice to me, not one who is nice to everyone in a need for approval and adulation, but one who treats me special. After all, I'm the one in the relationship with him, I think I should be more special to him than a bunch of random people.

I think the "nice guy" idea is crap.

EVERY guy that's ever dumped you or a friend unfairly (at least to YOUR mind) is a jerk, regardless his reasons for doing it.


I don't think so. I'm the one who dumped my ex, not him who dumped me. And he still wants me back and doesn't understand this concept.

Want to know how you can tell if a guy is nice "enough" to date long term? See how he treats his mother. You can tell a LOT from how a guy treats the woman who raised him.

Actually, it's not that black and white. He can be too much of a 'mama's boy'. I think the same concept here applies with the mother:

"BTW, this is why I have an issue with the statement that 'If you want to judge a potential mate, see how he treats service staff." It's just not that simple, and not that 'black and white".

I mean, sure, OBVIOUSLY, if they're unnecessarily MEAN to them, then that's a problem; but if they're unnecessarily NICE, that could be a problem, too!"

Yes.. but if you see him treating her TOO nicely, you know THAT about him as well.

I didn't say that if he treated her nicely that he was a keeper--just that you learn a lot about a person from the way they treat their mother.

Same thing with service staff.

Courteousness is important regardless, as is respect.

Same thing with service staff.

Courteousness is important regardless, as is respect.

It really should go without even needing to be mentioned, that being courteous and respectful to others is important. That is obvious.

The thing a lot of people don't seem to grasp is there is a whole lot of gray-area between being *respectful*, and *schmoozing*, or putting strangers ahead of those close to you, who've invested their time in a relationship with you.

How about the ex-boyfriend that I had years ago: He had asked me to help him with something that day, and I said 'No problem'. So, I was out with him all day. I was so hungry. We went into a diner, and he proceeded to order himself lunch, and refused to buy me even a sandwich. I literally didn't have two pennies to rub together at that time, which he obviously knew, because I was struggling, working hard, as a full-time motel housekeeper.

But then when he finished his food, and I finished drinking my water, he made a big point of emptying out his pockets to the last penny in order to leave quite a generous tip for the waitress. His comment was, "She needs it. She works hard for a living." I thought, 'What, and I don't? ' No one left me tips. Out of sight, out of mind.

I'm sure the waitress thought, "Gee, what a NICE GUY he is!"

BigBird,

I wasn't saying that men have to do all the work to get the girl and that she can just sit back, it's just a secret to what women desire in a man.. doesn't have anything to do with working to get them, it's a characteristic trait that we admire

Of course I was not being serious... n don't think I am bitter... just trying to start something... nothing serious though... I like a strong women who is not a push over... but who can still be a woman if you know what I mean... not really into the too girly girls though...

Sokay--how long did you stay with him after that? And did you tell him that his behaviour was unacceptable to you?

If you didn't leave him that week (or that DAY! ), and never told him how it bothered you--then you were as guilty as he was.

I would have walked out after he didn't buy me something to eat as well--since eating in front of someone when they're hungry as well is just rude. I'm sure that waitress saw the way you were interacting, and didn't have a whole lot nice to say about him in the end--waitstaff see more than more people realize.

So no--that's not a nice guy. But you learned a LOT about him from the way he treated those waiting on him: namely, you. You helped him with something, worked hard on his behalf, and he treated you like crap. And if you didn't dump him because of that instance--YOU let him get away with it.

I met my husband 12 years ago. The weekend I met him was pretty bad timing. I was coming out of a bad relationship, and I thought he was dating a friend of mine (SHE said they were dating, come to find out from other people that that was wishful thinking on her part--they just hung out together a lot). So... he thought I was a man-hating witch, and I thought he was an egotistical flirt with no respect for his girlfriend. We ended up hanging out quite a bit for the next 5 months--because we had the same group of friends. When I had a really rough day one day, enough to break down and cry, he was the one that took me out and helped me get through it, even though we weren't especially close. So... I would have said he was a jerk when we first met, but it turns out that he's really a great guy who won't be at any woman's beck and call--including mine, even as his wife. He does things for me because he likes ot make me happy, not because I need him to do those things to make me happy.

My best friend is a guy. He's a jerk. He'll admit that he's a jerk. He has no patience with stupidity or people who can not learn from their mistakes. A lot of the women who know him think he's a jerk because he won't play games--he'll tell them straight up why he won't go out with them, even if that's something you just don't SAY. Like--I can't go out with you, because the way you eat in the break room with your mouth open repulses me. Sounds like a real a$$ of a guy, right? Well, he's ALSO the guy who found out that one of the women at work had a sick kid, and her insurance hadn't kicked in yet, and her husband had just gotten laid off. He's the one that organized a very quiet drive for people to donate things to help her--food, clothing, diapers, formula, baby blankets, toys, etc--and left it for her in the break room, completely anonymously. He didn't want credit for helping someone, he just wanted to make it easier for her. So... is he a jerk? Or a sweetheart? This is the man who has, for an exgirlfriend who cheated on him, and who he hadn't had contact with in a few years, went and picked her up from her boyfriend's house, because she was too terrified to leave. And then told her that if she'd grow a spine and stop expecting men to make her happy, she would have been happy a long time ago. Dropped her at a women's shelter, gave her $100 cash, and told her to call him if she needed him--but that she'd better not go back to the jerk that was beating her or he'd beat her himself after smashing the guy.

So.. I don't think there is such a thing as a "nice guy". I think ALL guys are capable of being nice, but that women don't even really want a guy who's nice all the time. Nice is BORING. If he was always nice, and loved you adoringly, and never put himself first--that's called a dog, folks, not a nice guy.

So there are plenty of guys out there that will treat you with respect--but you can't be a princess sitting around and waiting for them to ride up in their armor, either. Try looking at the guys whose looks don't thrill you the first time you see them. Try looking at the guys who aren't smooth and suave and sweet the first time you meet. There are great guys everywhere--you just have to stop expecting them to ALWAYS be nice, while still expecting that they're going to treat you with respect---unless, of course, you do something to lose that respect.

Synnan,

I dumped him shortly thereafter, and yes, of course I told him he was treating the waitstaff better than his own girlfriend. His justification to himself? "I was just being a nice guy! I care about other people, and she works hard!" (As if to imply that *I* don't care about other people, and that *I* don't work hard. I just think my boyfriend should put me before a stranger. Yeah, dumped him, obviously. And it wasn't as if the rest of the relationship he was a perfect boyfriend anyway, so no big loss.

I'm sure in his own mind, he probably still thinks he's a really "Nice Guy". But that is no longer my problem.

Sokay--

So there are plenty of guys out there that will treat you with respect--but you can't be a princess sitting around and waiting for them to ride up in their armor, either. Try looking at the guys whose looks don't thrill you the first time you see them. Try looking at the guys who aren't smooth and suave and sweet the first time you meet. There are great guys everywhere--you just have to stop expecting them to ALWAYS be nice, while still expecting that they're going to treat you with respect---unless, of course, you do something to lose that respect.

Hon, if you knew me even the slightest bit, you'd know how very much I don't need this advice at all, as it does not apply to me.

Sokay-- you can't be a princess sitting around and waiting for them to ride up in their armor, either. Try looking at the guys whose looks don't thrill you the first time you see them. Try looking at the guys who aren't smooth and suave and sweet the first time you meet. There are great guys everywhere--you just have to stop expecting them to ALWAYS be nice, while still expecting that they're going to treat you with respect---unless, of course, you do something to lose that respect.

By the way, (since you're making false and groundless assumptions about me... ) have you taken your own advice? You know what they say, "One finger points out, the other three point back to you..."

Look, I wasn't attacking you.

I was pointing out that "nice" isn't always good dating material, and that looking BEYOND nice is sometimes surprising.

I also don't think that most people WANT nice.

And I don't have to justify anything to you. I happen to KNOW I'm not a nice person. My husband actually LIKES that about me, and my friends are pretty content with my brutal honesty.

So... I was justifying my explanation that completely nice guys don't exist--which, I think, is exactly what you're saying. So where's the argument?

Look, I wasn't attacking you.

I was pointing out that "nice" isn't always good dating material, and that looking BEYOND nice is sometimes surprising.

I also dont' think that most people WANT nice.

And I don't have to justify anything to you. I happen to KNOW I'm not a nice person. My husband actually LIKES that about me, and my friends are pretty content with my brutal honesty.

So...I was justifying my explanation that completely nice guys don't exist--which, I think, is exactly what you're saying. So where's the argument?

No one said you were "Attacking me". What I did say is that you made false and groundless assumptions about me. If you'll kindly go back and read your post to me perhaps you'll understand why that is a fair statement.

You first say you think I should have dumped the guy on the spot for not buying my lunch, then turn around with a lengthy soliloquy regarding how you think I should alter my character, and my expectations about men, based, I might add, on *one* lone, story I told, which you agreed with, and which has nothing to do with my actual character, but is actually the *opposite* of it. (For instance: I'm frequently referred to as 'Soo Independant' and 'Self-Sufficient', and 'Down-to-Earth' by both men and women.

At any rate, at least make up your mind what your position is... Waffle much?

And also, I don't have to justify myself to you either, Synnen. Coincidentally, my friends also are content with me, lol. But that's OK, you can win the pissing contest if it will make you happy.

Yes, I am not saying women should stay in relationships with jerks and expect anything to change. I am saying that even if a woman leaves a relationship as soon as she realizes he's a jerk, she's already been hurt. And it's not her fault.

sokay et al. I think some of you are defining "nice guy" completely differently than I am. I am not talking about a perfect saint, or a chivalrous "Prince Charming". I said I was defining a "nice guy" as someone who was straightforward, honest, and at all times considerate of others' feelings. That doesn't at all mean that the guy has to be a pushover. And it certainly doesn't mean he has to schmooze with other women.

Furthermore, you can see in my original post that I never asked anyone how to "fix" the "problem" (if there is indeed one). I was more just asking a basic question about whether my observation of human nature sounds familiar to other people as well? I'm not saying women are saints either, but seeing as I haven't dated them I can't really make an observation about how inconsiderate they can be to people they're romantically entangled with in some way...

sokay et al. I think some of you are defining "nice guy" completely differently than I am. I am not talking about a perfect saint, or a chivalrous "Prince Charming". ..

Ummm... I'm sorry, but, you got the impression I was saying they should be a perfect saint, because_____?

I use to be a nice guy..!

Then he came to AMHD and ran into the likes of me on the relationship thread.

No sokay, I was saying that you seemed to be defining "nice guy" differently than I was (at least in some of your posts), as were a lot of other posters. ("et. al." means "and others" in case you didn't know... )

no sokay, I was saying that you seemed to be defining "nice guy" differently than I was (at least in some of your posts), as were a lot of other posters. ("et. al." means "and others" in case you didn't know...)

So, Toluca, perhaps you'd like to explain what I said that was different from your definition of 'nice guy' in that, it seems your last post implies that your definition is, somehow, more realistic than mine, (et.al.)...

("et. al." means "and others" in case you didn't know...)

LOL!

No sokay, I was not implying that yours was more or less realistic than mine, just different. (You may notice that other posters claimed girls who said "nice guy" expected a Prince Charming by the way, I wasn't pulling that out of my arse). Yours was different, because I never said I expected my guy to give all his attention to me and not flirt with other girls. That I think is something that a "nice guy" (by my def.) would work out on an individual basis depending on his girlfriend and his own female acquantences, to minimize the chances of hurting peoples' feelings.

I like pampering a guy but they always end up taking me for granted and thinking I am
weak or something. So I guess how a guy treats you can have a bit to do with how you treat them but being the nice girl can backfire on you because they mistake your devotion as meaning they can walk all over you.

Hey,

I like pampering a guy but they always end up taking me for granted and thinking I am
weak or something. So I guess how a guy treats you can have a bit to do with how you treat them but being the nice girl can backfire on you because they mistake your devotion as meaning they can walk all over you.

Hey, I wouldn't mind being pampered, now get back in the kitchen and get my supper. That's me being a man...

Hi Honey, have you had a good day? How about I take you out for a nice supper. That's me being kind and considerate...

I can do both.

We should all learn that when you take up and form a relationship with another person it is 2 individual lives coming together. Your individual life needs to be balanced with your new partner. If you both continue living those lives and not putting into "the relationship" then the relationship cannot grow and it shouldn't be surprised when it fails.

Conversely if you BOTH put something, not just financial or time, but yourselves into the relationship then at least it has a chance.

Take note that the words above are from one that has failed in 2 marriages and several relationships. That'll teach me not to listen to my own advice or maybe I'm just a slow learner. But I'm still one of the nice guys.

Ross Geller and Gregory House in one thread...

LOL, had to Google Gregory House. Good one.

So I think from my (admittedly somewhat limited) dating experience, I've come to the following conclusion:

If there is such a thing as an all-around "nice guy" he's rare.

What's a lot more common are guys who are pretty obviously jerks, or else guys who most people /think/ are nice b/c they're nice to their female friends and maybe their girlfriends, but they still manage to screw over other women in ways that no one besides those women are really aware of.

Thoughts?

I totally agree. I know there are lots of bad girls around but guys should open their eyes and SEE & UNDERSTAND who they are with! Personally, I've been always supper nice to my ex boyfriends, non of them deserve my good behavior.
I almost believe that there is no any gentle man in the world anymore!

I totally agree. ... I almost believe that there is no any gentle man in the world anymore!

I'm a nice guy. Really I am. I've even been told by one female recently that I am kind and gentle. I am nice enough to be her friend, but not I'm not her boy friend. Other guys have girl friends that they verbally and/or physically abuse. Knowing that and feeling even less attractive than these jerks is destroying myself esteem :( I don't get it, do any girls in this world even want to be with a nice guy?

I don't get it, do any girls in this world even want to be with a nice guy?

Yeah, the ones who self esteem just got destroyed by the jerks... :)

No seriously, you need to think through all the crap that you see. It really isn't all bad and don't let yourself get disillusioned.

The problem with a lot of nice guys is that they get into this mode of "I am a nice guy and that puts me at a huge disadvantage..." You want to see how many girls will like a nice guy? Then change your mentality in that girls would be lucky to have you - not the other way around.

This has got to be a hot topic.. I stopped reading half way because I noticed some of it became attack-y lol. But anyway, I'm here to give my own opinion, I respect what you guys think too, but in my opinion:

I think that there is no such thing as a particular 'nice guy' / prince charming or whatever, because everyone is individual, be it women or men. Some of us have green eyes, some of us have blue eyes, just like some of us have particular characteristics that you would desire. You just have to search for your MATCH. You can't change a person, so a girl walking out on a bad guy won't necessarily make them change, because that is who they are. And by saying 'bad' - what is bad? We all have different expectations and desires, therefore we look for our own MATCHES, and who we are compatible with. A guy who is protective may seem desirable for some (and it is for me) but for others it may be annoying. We all look for people who we have the qualities we like. But if you can't find anyone with the qualities you like? What can you do? Just keep searching. It takes time to find the right partner. You go through many heartbreaks to find 'the one'.

Yours was different, b/c I never said I expected my guy to not flirt with other girls. That I think is something that a "nice guy" (by my def.) would work out on an individual basis depending on his gf and his own female acquantences, to minimize the chances of hurting peoples' feelings.

Hm. That's an interesting perspective.

I'm a nice guy. Really I am. I've even been told by one female recently that I am kind and gentle. I am nice enough to be her friend, but not I'm not her boy friend. Other guys have girl friends that they verbally and/or physically abuse. Knowing that and feeling even less attractive than these jerks is destroying my self esteem :( I don't get it, do any girls in this world even want to be with a nice guy?

As a woman, I've turned down plenty of men who I've known in my life, and I usually use some version of the blanket excuse, "I only like you as a friend, but gee, you're such a nice guy".

I mean, why would I tell him, "You're ugly and fat, and you seem to have anger issues which creeps me out"? That would seem a bit unwarranted. And I'd rather let a guy down gently than have him turn up at my doorstep later that night looking for vengeance.

Holy crap sokay.

As a woman, I've turned down plenty of men who I've known in my life, and I usually use some version of the blanket excuse, "I only like you as a friend, but gee, you're such a nice guy".

I mean, why would I tell him, "You're ugly and fat, and you seem to have anger issues which creeps me out"? That would seem a bit unwarranted. And I'd rather let a guy down gently than have him turn up at my doorstep later that night looking for vengeance.

If I was ugly and fat, and had anger issues, I would rather you tell me that, than some bs about me being a nice guy.

Doesn't a guy deserve to know the truth, even if the truth hurts, at least I would have her honest opinion, and in knowing that, it may change the women I approach, or even the way I approach them.

In thinking about it even now though, since I'm not fat, and ugly is a biased opinion, and I don't have anger issues, maybe if I did, I would choose the bs instead?

If I was ugly and fat, and had anger issues, I would rather you tell me that, than some bs about me being a nice guy.

Doesn't a guy deserve to know the truth, even if the truth hurts, at least I would have her honest opinion, and in knowing that, it may change the women I approach, or even the way I approach them.

In thinking about it even now though, since I'm not fat, and ugly is a biased opinion, and I don't have anger issues, maybe if I did, I would choose the bs instead?

Yes, those three examples I used (fat, ugly, anger) are actually only three of any possibility.
For whatever reason I do not like the guy (whatever reason), I'd usually tell him, he seems like a nice guy, but...

If it's some dude at the store I barely know or from my library, or whatever, do you really think I want to take a chance that he's not some angry weirdo, and put myself at risk? Nope.

Very true, Prognur. If I was dating the guy for a while, and didn't like some aspect of his character, I would probably feel more comfortable telling him so, as delicately as possible, in hopes that he will amend it. And I wouldn't be dating him in the first place, if I didn't find myself at least somewhat attracted to him.

I'm talking more about either strangers or people I know as friends or friendly aqcuaintences. I wouldn't tell them the truth about why I don't want to date him, it's much safer to go the route, "You're nice, and a great friend, but..."

I have even dumped boyfriends in the past, and told them what a great guy they are, because I didn't want to hurt their feelings, and/or have them (possibly) go psycho on me.

As a woman, I've turned down plenty of men who I've known in my life, and I usually use some version of the blanket excuse, "I only like you as a friend, but gee, you're such a nice guy".

I mean, why would I tell him, "You're ugly and fat, and you seem to have anger issues which creeps me out"? That would seem a bit unwarranted. And I'd rather let a guy down gently than have him turn up at my doorstep later that night looking for vengeance.

Ok but when you get to know someone over several days, and they want to spend more time with you, then you know they like you at least. You know you don't "creep them out". It's not always them lying to you to let you down gently.

Ok but when you get to know someone over several days, and they want to spend more time with you, then you know they like you at least. You know you don't "creep them out". It's not always them lying to you to let you down gently.

Right, it's not always that there's something I strongly dislike about them. But usually there is some reason I've turned them down or dumped them. I mean if they really were that great, I wouldn't have dumped them/ turned them down.

And yes, Sometimes, in spite of being nice, I'm just not attracted to them. And that lack of attraction, again is not because of, but in spite of, them being nice. Nice is a good quality.

I'm a nice guy. Really I am. I've even been told by one female recently that I am kind and gentle. I am nice enough to be her friend, but not I'm not her boy friend. Other guys have girl friends that they verbally and/or physically abuse. Knowing that and feeling even less attractive than these jerks is destroying my self esteem :( I don't get it, do any girls in this world even want to be with a nice guy?

How do you define yourself as "nice" ?

how do you define yourself as "nice" ?I'm a nice guy as well. Here's my definition: I don't play games with people's emotions, I don't misrepresent myself in order to make someone attracted to me, I'm respectful to people who are also respectful.

I'm a nice guy as well. Here's my definition: I don't play games with people's emotions, I don't misrepresent myself in order to make someone attracted to me, I'm respectful to people who are also respectful.

Do you thing lots of guys out there say that they are not "nice", when they play those games?


I dated someone which told me he just wanted fun from our first meet. He was not what I wanted, maybe he was a jerk even, but he was nice to tell me from the beginning. So we stopped the relation, and It didn't hurt,

But I had two other ones, which pretended to be very very nice and faithful, but I just remember of "PAIN" from my last 2-3 months of our relationship. So you thing they believe that they are not nice?

In my idea, guys obviously ignore girls emotions, and they think that its just being spoiled... they can't understand "deep feeling". At least ones I ve met been like that :(...

What the. Guys ignore girls' emotions?

I think it's even on both sides. Some guys are idiots, some girls are just plain stupid. If we can't understand "deep feelings," tell that to the thousands of guys who are here on the relationship forum that come here after being dumped after 3 years of a great relationship because the girl found someone new. I'm not saying that it's the girls' faults... but if that doesn't say guys can understand "deep feelings" then I'm not sure what does.

I'm sorry about your past experiences but your can't judge all men by the actions of a few. At this moment my wife is receiving flowers at her office to celebrate her new job. We are all different in the same that women are all individuals. Yes people lie, just hang on to your standards - I've dated many women who played a part to please me at the beginning only to find out that's not the real person that they really are.

I'm sorry about your past experiences but your can't judge all men by the actions of a few. At this moment my wife is receiving flowers at her office to celebrate her new job. We are all different in the same that women are all individuals. Yes people lie, just hang on to your standards - I've dated many women who played a part to please me at the beginning only to find out that's not the real person that they really are.

You mean I should keep getting hurt and searching for "nice" guy? You know, I become badly clinically depressed just because of those bad experiences, at this point that I'm writing here...

Hm. That does stink.

But look at it this way, diamond miners mine for days without finding something.

Your other options are... to just stop looking, and hope one'll come to you... but really, us nice guys, we're all out there.

Ok, then pick the 'dangerous types' and enjoy yourself.

Before you pair up with anyone else make sure that you are happy with yourself or it will always be destined to failure.

Ok, then pick the 'dangerous types' and enjoy yourself.

Before you pair up with anyone else make sure that you are happy with yourself or it will always be destined to failure.

I'm happy with myself, I've been good in everything, successful in job, education, I look very good (I shouldn't say it myself, I know) anyway... but relationships... Oops... I don't dare anymore...

Nothing wrong with a little time off. Go out with a group of girls and have fun, you never know what may find you. :)

Just want to add to kitty's posts something along a similar line:

I've observed over my life, that people who advertise themselves as being something, are not. For instance:


People who call themselves 'open-minded', tend to be 'open-minded' to those who agree with them;)

People who call themselves 'nice guys' tend to be nice only when/till it gets them what they want, (which isn't really very nice).


... etc...

Whereas, people who are something, They do not advertise it, they just are.

Well, in that case, I'd like to say that I'm the biggest jerkoff in the world.

Whereas, people who are something, They do not advertise it, they just are.In real life this is correct but hard to do on a website don't you agree? I guess I'll just have to have my posts back me up. But you seem to be more cynical than me, and that's tough to do! :)

Just want to add to kitty's posts something along a similar line:

I've observed over my life, that people who advertise themselves as being something, are not. For instance:


People who call themselves 'open-minded', tend to be 'open-minded' to those who agree with them;)

People who call themselves 'nice guys' tend to be nice only when/till it gets them what they want, (which isn't really very nice).


....etc....

Whereas, people who are something, They do not advertise it, they just are.

Who advetised herself! He told me you should be happy with yourself first then others will be happy with you. I just meant that I have enough reason to be happy with myself. I don't need to convince people here that Im good! I don't know anybody, and nobody knows me.

who advetised herself!? he told me you should be happy with yourself first then others will be happy with you. I just ment that I have enough reason to be happy with myself. I dont need to convince people here that Im good! I dont know anybody, and nobody knows me.

Wow, you completely misunderstood my post. For starters, it wasn't directed towards you at all.

Sorry kitty, I think you misread sokay's post...

sokay just meant if someone says that they're rich, they probably aren't.. . that type of thing.

Not directed at you.

OK, sorry...

But I can't delete it anyway...

Yeah, thanks, Sneezy, that is more what I meant:)

Whereas, people who are something, They do not advertise it, they just are.

I find that advertising myself as an @ss gets the job done :).

I may seem like a jerk at first, but after a couple conversations, I'm the nicest guy in the world.

I'm quite the opposite. I may seem like the sweetest guy in the world.

Spend 5 minutes with me, and you'll be calling me an arrogant jerk.

I don't go 2 days without someone calling me an @ss.

Even after I met Sneeze, I was still a nice guy! Not as nice as the day before, but still..!