I'm not really posting this to debate further what is already in a couple of other threads... but I WOULD like to know what particular scriptures are always being used to justify the anti-gay feeling in Christianity.

The ONLY story I can come up with is the story of Sodom and Gamorrah--so someone please help me out here.

Romans chapter one

but as I said people label 'sin' in degrees such as stealing is a lesser sin than killing.
Not so much that all sins are equal because obviously killing is worse than stealing a piece of candy
BUT the issue is more like you believe God or you do not.
If you do not believe then it doesn't matter to you if you please him with your actions/behaviors.

God's intent is husband and wife anything out side of marriage God considers sin.
The Bible says we all fall short.
Basically 'sin' is a result of our hearts not being right with God and therefore we follow
what the Bible calls the lusts of the flesh. So it isn't so much the sin as our hearts not right with God in the first place.

Where are your quotation marks and chapter and verse?

Sorry I hadn't looked it up to post yet.

Romans 1
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:



Basically God calls the marriage between a man and a woman holy and sanctified
Anything else --adultery, fornication, homosexuality he calls sin.

1 Corinthians 6:9 (Read all of 1 Corinthians 6 (http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?q=1+Corinthians+6&ver=web))
Or don't you know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals,
How relevant is this verse to your query? http://www.christnotes.org/images/rating/norating_off.gifhttp://www.christnotes.org/images/rating/star_off.gifhttp://www.christnotes.org/images/rating/star_off.gifhttp://www.christnotes.org/images/rating/star_off.gifhttp://www.christnotes.org/images/rating/star_off.gifhttp://www.christnotes.org/images/rating/star_off.gif

1 Timothy 1:10 (Read all of 1 Timothy 1 (http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?q=1+Timothy+1&ver=web))
For the sexually immoral, for homosexuals, for slave-traders, for liars, for perjurers, and for any other thing contrary to the sound doctrine;

I have just included two from the new testement, to show that it includes it after Christ. The bible is very very clear that homosexual behavior is not acceptable, and those doing it will not be saved.

So to further this, any of the make believe Christians who want to be gay and say they are christians are not really since they deny the very teachings of the bible.

Thanks, Sapph!

These are not Jesus' words; they are words of a former pharisee and his follower, Tim.

Let's see some of Jesus Christ's words, after all it is Christianity, not Judaism-Revised.

How about Repent and be baptised. So knowing it is a sin, they need to repent, Jesus loves them and will accept them all back after they repent

Thanks, you.

I have some reading to do, now :)

WHERE in the Bible are the scriptures about homosexuality?

What value has that knowledge, when we know that the Bible content is (mis)used to support even the wildest and worst claims, while "Commandments" are skipped by believers as they feel needed...

When will believers become themselves examples providing value to the content of the Bible in their thinking and deeds ?

:rolleyes:

Because * in my opinion** some of the homosexuals are still looking for a moral justification and want to be able to claim that the bible does not forbide it.

** not saying this is any of these posters agenda,

I would like Chapter and Verse of where Jesus teaches/speaks against homosexuality, Chuck.

Thanks,

Because * in my opinion** some of the homosexuals are still looking for a moral justification and want to be able to claim that the bible does not forbide it.
** not saying this is any of these posters agenda,
With all respect, but reading back this and other topics on the subject, it is hardly moral justification homosexuals seek for their personal sexual preference, but much more questioning why - specifically orthodox hard-core - Christians are so eager to condemn homosexuality as moraly wrong.
Just belief in God and/or the Bible is not sufficient for that, as all Christians have besides their belief also a brain that can be used to (in)validate their own intolerant position towards homosexuals.

:rolleyes:

But for a Christian and it should be for all, the bible is the final word, the guideline to compare behavior to and the way of life for us to follow.
The bible is not and can never be just one item used, it is the deciding factor when other things disagree.

As for Jesus, the bible says in many places, the bible being inspired by God, you either accept God's word or you don't.

So, Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.

But for a Christian and it should be for all, the bible is the final word, the guideline to compare behavior to and the way of life for us to follow.
For a Christian it should be. And you BELIEVE it should be for all...

:D

So, Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.
Where some of the disciples not rather "funny" guys ?

:rolleyes:

I am sure Peter had a lot of great jobs about the shepherd and the tax collector, but no if they were gay or homosexual at any point they would have repented from that sin as they did all the old sin in their life, but no we are not told that was any of their sin, but other sexual sin, such as a harlot is addressed.

I am sure Peter had ...
You are sure... Based on WHAT ?

;)

These are not Jesus' words; they are words of a former pharisee and his follower, Tim.

So, Jesus never said anything about homosexuality

Let's see some of Jesus Christ's words, after all it is Christianity, not Judaism-Revised.

There entire Bible, every word is "The Word of God" and since Jesus is God, those are His words.

I guess it is the state of California issuing marriage licenses to homosexuals that have stirred up recent threads. I was watching the news last night and they showed a couple going in a courthouse (in San Francisco, I suppose). A female protestor screamed at them "God Hates You!" It would have been comical if it hadn't been so pathetic. These kind of Christians end up defeating their own cause.

Emland that is sooo funny. I bet her pastor is real proud of her.

Emland that is sooo funny. I bet her pastor is real proud of her.

Quite the contrary.. The Bible does not teach that Homosexualy is any more sinful than fornication, stealing, adultery or any othere sin. Therefore a Homosexual's sin is not special. The Bible teaches us to love ALL people inculding homos. :)

Sassy, I hope you're one of those people that also believes that birth control is bad (no spilling your seed on the ground), polygamy is okay (Didn't Jacob have two wives?), incest is okay (Lot's daughters seduced him and were not struck down by god, even though Lot's wife was turned to a pillar of salt for just looking over her shoulder), stoning women for being unfaithful is okay, etc etc etc.

If the whole Bible is the word of Jesus because it's the word of God, well.. then I bet YOU don't obey a lot a rules in the Bible that are JUST as important as not being homosexual.

So... stop throwing stones until you get rid of your own sin.

[
QUOTE=Synnen]Sassy, I hope you're one of those people that also believes that birth control is bad (no spilling your seed on the ground),

no.. I am not i think birth control is great! Nothing wrong with it.


polygamy is okay (Didn't Jacob have two wives?)

Polygamy according to my beliefs is not okay. Just because the Bible says Jacob had two wives does not mean God condoned it. The Bible is a story about a perfect God working with and through imperfect people.
The bible also says Noah got drunk, so does that mean the Bible condones getting drunk. Certainly not.


, incest is okay (Lot's daughters seduced him and were not struck down by god, even though Lot's wife was turned to a pillar of salt for just looking over her shoulder), stoning women for being unfaithful is okay, etc etc etc.

Again, just because the Bible describes historical events of the sinful nature of man does not mean that it is in anyway trying to promote such behavior. Yes the Bible does say there were a group a men that wanted to stone a woman caught in adulterey, however it goes on to say that Jesus(GOD) said to those men "let he that is without sin cast the first stone" signifying that behavior was not acceptable. So please don't just take a few excerpts from the bible, convieniently taken out of context, to further propagate your false views.


If the whole Bible is the word of Jesus because it's the word of God, well.. then I bet YOU don't obey a lot a rules in the Bible that are JUST as important as not being homosexual.

Yes you are right! I am just as Guilty... i am not perfect and my sin is not any better than that of a Homosexual and that is what i said in my previous post so i don't know what you are breaking my bals about... :confused:

i dont know what you are breaking my balls about..You have balls?

The difference, Sassy, is that homosexuals are not trying to make YOU live according to THEIR religion.

But... that's a different topic.

THIS topic is about where the Bible states that homosexuality is wrong, and I believe I've gotten several great answers about that.

[QUOTE=Synnen]The difference, Sassy, is that homosexuals are not trying to make YOU live according to THEIR religion.

Synnen, can you answer this question for me please, just yes or no

Do you think people should be allowed to marry their dog/pet?

No, I don't.

But the REASON I don't think that is because the dog/pet can't CONSENT.

You really just don't get that point, do you?

Synnen, can you answer this question for me plse, just yes or no

do you think people should be allowed to marry thier dog/pet?


No, I don't.

So... you don't think a person should be allowed to marry their dog... Is that because your religion says so?
no.. I didn't think so, so I don't see why you (and other supporters of gay marriage) have been accusing me of imposing my "religious" beliefs on the matter. I told you before, I don't support gay marriage, not because of my religion but just because I don't see it as something that should be considered valid in the same way you don't think people marrying animals should be valid, independent of your religious beliefs.

Sassy... again... THIS thread is not for that discussion.

Take it back to the other thread.

I was looking for concrete information in this thread, and since it's MY question, I will just close it if you persist.

Take this discussion to your OWN thread if you want to play like that. I'm NOT pulling THIS thread off-topic.

Sassy...again...THIS thread is not for that discussion.

Take it back to the other thread.

I was looking for concrete information in this thread, and since it's MY question, I will just close it if you persist.

Take this discussion to your OWN thread if you want to play like that. I'm NOT pulling THIS thread off-topic.

Okey...

Sassy, I hope you're one of those people that also believes that birth control is bad (no spilling your seed on the ground), polygamy is okay (Didn't Jacob have two wives?), incest is okay (Lot's daughters seduced him and were not struck down by god, even though Lot's wife was turned to a pillar of salt for just looking over her shoulder), stoning women for being unfaithful is okay, etc etc etc.

If the whole Bible is the word of Jesus because it's the word of God, well.. then I bet YOU don't obey a lot a rules in the Bible that are JUST as important as not being homosexual.

So...stop throwing stones until you get rid of your own sin.

You are very out of line and also off subject, first there is a differnece between things being told and things being right in the bible and you know that difference, so you are saying untrue things trying to make a unrealistic point.

1. actual birth control is not really mentioned in the bible, masturbation is but is more addressed as to following a command than the actual act.
2. yes, the bible does not say anything about pural marriage being wrong expect for church leaders. So no christian can use the bible to say anything against pural marriage. I personally think a man would be crazy one is too many some days.
3. What jacobs daughters did was wrong, it was shown as wrong when they did it, a lot of the Old testement is the history of the Hewbrew people along with there relationship with God, So the bad and evil men do is often shown, to show that God will forgive them for their sins.

Synnen-

I did a lot of reading back when I was Christian and struggling with my sexuality. After a lot of research regarding the original language in which the Bible was written, how things were translated, the context of different verses which are used to condemn homosexuality... it really had me questioning the validity of the verses used against us.

I'll look for some of the websites and post links here if I can find them.

Here's a basic list of some info from Dignity.com, a GLBT Catholic website. But I think I can find you more, if you want. Just let me know.

-The story of Sodom in Genesis 19 is about offense against the sacred duty of hospitality. That is how Ezekiel 16:48-49 and Wisdom 9:13-14 interpret this text. The attempted male rape only heightens the atrocity of this offense.

-Leviticus 18:22 does forbid male-male sex as an "abomination." But the word simply means an impurity or a religious taboo — like eating pork. As in the case of Catholics who used to be forbidden under pain of mortal sin to eat meat on Friday, the offense was not in the act itself but in the betrayal of one's religion. The ancient Jews were to avoid practices common among the unclean Gentiles.

-Romans 1:27 mentions men having relations with men. But the terms used to describe them are "dishonorable" and "shameless." These refer deliberately to social disapproval, not to ethical condemnation. Moreover, according to Paul's usage, different from the prevalent Stoic philosophy of the day, para physin ("unnatural") would best be translated "atypical" or "beyond the ordinary." So it bears no reference to natural law. And it can imply no ethical condemnation because in Romans 11:24 God is said to act para physin. Paul sees gay sex as an impurity (see Rm. 1:24), just like uncircumcision or eating forbidden foods. He mentions it to make the main point of his letter, that purity requirements of the Jewish Law are not relevant in Christ Jesus. See L. William Countryman, Dirt, Greed, and Sex.

-1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and 1 Timothy 1:8-10 list arsenokoitai among those who will be excluded from the Reign of God. This obscure term has been translated "homosexuals" but its exact meaning is debated. It certainly does not include women but only some kind of male sexual offenders. If it does refer to men having sex with men — which is dubious — it must be interpreted in light of the abuse and licentiousness commonly associated with male-male sex in the Roman Empire. See Robin Scroggs, The New Testament and Homosexuality.

-Finally, Genesis 1-3 shows Adam and Eve created for mutual companionship and procreation. These accounts use the most standard of human relationships to teach a religious lesson. The point is the love and wisdom of God, who made all things good and wills us no evil. Nothing suggests the biblical authors intended a lesson on sexual orientation.

Also, if you're interested, I'm in the process of reading a really interesting book, 'The Church and the Homosexual' by John J. McNeill. You might be interested in taking a look at that, and you can probably get it online for pretty cheap.

Hope that helps a little.

Not exactly what I was looking for, but all I could find right now- hopefully I'll have more for you later.

HOMOSEXUALITY - WHAT THE BIBLE R (http://safeharbourmcc.com/What%20the%20Bible%20Says.htm)

There's also a wikipedia article about it with a pretty lengthy discussion to read through- just came across it now, never seen it before, but it may have more info for you- it's called 'The Bible and Homosexuality'

Yes, those that want to re-write the meaning of the bible do question it and attempt to justify it, but it is simply not true. This is one of the issues we have against them, they are trying to force their beliefs on the church

Yes, those that want to re-write the meaning of the bible do question it and attempt to justify it, but it is simply not true. This is one of the issues we have against them, they are trying to force thier beliefs on the churchAs opposed to the people that believe in the church that try to force their beliefs on others? :rolleyes:

In a way, I am glad there is currently a thread in reference to this subject matter, as in some of my previous post, I may have given the impression that I don't cherish God's word, the bible. I do.

I struggle so much between right and wrong and voicing to someone that they are doing something unfavorable to God, as I myself am a sinner and the manner in which some in society voices such negativity to one group of people, always disturbs me and it is my opinion, not reflecting God's love in any way. In fact, it can turn many away from God.

What I don't understand, is the bible states all sins and also reads clearly to love one another, to turn the other cheek, to not judge.

Why is there so much hostility to the Gay community, and yet, there are never any threads or discussions about Child molestation - a disgraceful disgusting sin? Or murder, or infedility? But two people who love each other, truly and with all their hearts, whether right or wrong, and again, we here have no idea what makes someone Gay, is verbally burned at the stake.

I am not saying all who believe in God and love God, do these harsh things, because they don't, there are many who love all sinners and sincerely want them to turn away from the sin, but there are some, that demonstrate what equates to hatred, and to me, that is far from God's plan.

Sorry Synn - hope I am not off topic, it's not my intention, and glad you did initiate the thread.

... I am not saying all who beleive in God and love God, do these harsh things, because they don't, there are many who love all sinners and sincerely want them to turn away from the sin, but their are some, that demonstrate what equates to hatred, and to me, that is far from God's plan.
That is a correct statement. But that brings us to those who do all that "judging"...
It seems to me that the majority of those showing so much hatred and intolerance all around them are conservative strict Christians.
What drives these people to do that? Can we blamed that on the Bible ? Or on the believers themselves ?
Again - staying within the confinement of the question - why are so many conservative Christians so full of hatred and intolerance against homosexuality?
Nobody is telling or asking them to become gay, is it not? And where in the Bible are the scriptures involving homosexuality that instruct those who believe the Bible to be God's words to show so much hatred and intolerance for gays? As far as I know the Bible says that the "final judgment" is done by God...

:rolleyes:

That is a correct statement. But that brings us to those who do all that "judging" ...
It seems to me that the majority of those showing so much hatred and intolerance all around them are conservative strict Christians.
What drives these people to do that? Can we blamed that on the Bible ? Or on the believers themselves ?
Again - staying within the confinement of the question - why are so many conservative Christians so full of hatred and intolerance against homosexuality?
Nobody is telling or asking them to become gay, is it not? And where in the Bible are the scriptures involving homosexuality that instruct those who believe the Bible to be God's words to show so much hatred and intolerance for gays? As far as I know the Bible says that the "final judgment" is done by God ...

:rolleyes:


It's sad to call those, or identify those, who demonstrate hatred as "Christians". There is nothing Christ like about hatred. It is said, there will be false prophets, so we do need to be aware of that and even careful of that.

It's sad to call those, or identify those, who demonstrate hatred as "Christians". There is nothing Christ like about hatred. It is said, there will be false prophets, so we do need to be aware of that and even careful of that.
So you acknowledge with your reply that such people who show so much aggression and intolerance against homosexuals can not base nor validate that attitude on the Bible, i.e. it is based on their own personal opinions and views?

Is it not that true Christians should spread "the word", not only by using empty words, but by their own example?
And does that not indicate that all those who carry that apparent inner need for hatred and intolerance for those with different views with them are not true Christians?

:rolleyes:
·

First, I only share my thoughts that represent what I believe.

What I will acknowledge is that any form of hatred demonstrated, could never be tied back to the bible, in my opinion.

Those that shout, scream and voice hatred, I would never question the love they have for Christ in their hearts, because I do not know. I do believe that their behavior is not Christian like, is not Christ like. Personally, and this may be awful to say, but those that
Stand outside abortion clinics, hollering, screaming, calling people murders, or on street corners, spreading hatred, I, in my heart, feel that something may not be completely right with them, and again, can not be tied back to the bible.

I agree with you 100% - the best way to bring someone to God's loving arms, is not by
Harsh hateful words, but by loving quiet example.

I will also say, that many times, most times, my actions, my words, are not Christ like - are a poor example of God's love - but I have immense love in my heart for Christ, that's why I could never judge anothers love for our Lord.

If Jesus, nailed to the cross, with a crown of thorns, after being brutually beaten, can raise His loving eyes to God, and say, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do". How could I, a sinner, ever turn my eyes, my heart, be judgemental of anyone.

It is not that Christians can not base upon the Bible that homosexuality is wrong.
They can not base their hatred upon the Bible.
The problem is the hatred. The Bible says gluttony is a sin. The Bible says arrogance is a sin. Adultery is a sin, lying is a sin, hatred is a sin and the list goes on.
But the problem is that people put sin on a scale and they have homosexuality up there with rape, murder and child molesting. They say do not judge others leave it up to God. They will even say a rapist in jail has a chance to repent, yet treat homosexuality as a special no win sin.

It is not that Christians can not base upon the Bible that homosexuality is wrong.
The problem is the hatred. The Bible says gluttony is a sin. The Bible says arrogance is a sin. Adultery is a sin, lying is a sin and the list goes on.
But the problem is that people put sin on a scale and they have homosexuality up there with rape, murder and child molesting.


So well said - and that's where it all goes so wrong and causes so much pain for so many.

Allheart and N0help4u : excellent reactions !

:)
·

Yes, those that want to re-write the meaning of the bible do question it and attempt to justify it, but it is simply not true. This is one of the issues we have against them, they are trying to force thier beliefs on the church

I don't necessarily agree with you on that- I'm not saying it's impossible, but I really think that there is plenty of room for error in translation- are you saying that it's completely impossible that translations could be incorrect or that there could be even an ounce of human influence in the way in which the Bible has been translated over time? Because a lot of the debate on the accuracy of translation regarding the mention of homosexuality in the Bible, among other things, is among Biblical scholars as well, from what I've read- do you think they have some sort of hidden agenda, or couldn't it just be an attempt to get to the root of things and see what the meaning intended by the original text actually was?

Again, I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe something they don't- but maybe to look at their belief and see why it is they believe it to be sure they really do, when given all the information. I'm not presuming to know it all- just putting the possibility out there.

And AllHeart, did you ever hear the St. Francis of Assisi quote 'Preach the Gospel where ever you go, and if you must, even use words'? I thought of that when reading through your posts and thought you might like it. It's one of my own personal favorites... =)

I think the reason that so many think of homosexuality as a horrible, evil, up there with stoning Christ sin is just this: Many homosexuals refuse to "repent" the sin, and "commit the sin again" without true repentence--Nor do I personally believe they should have to.

Like I said--I was trying to find the Biblical justification of what I see (again, this is MY belief) as intolerance and hatred.

Some of it, I believe, has to do with interpretation. Heck, we have different people interpreting Shakespeare in different ways, and Shakespeare wrote at LEAST a thousand years after the Bible was written. Some of the issue is the translation of the Bible from one language to another--and then to another, in some cases. Some of the issue is that some words just do not translate well, meaning or definition. If you asked 10 people today what the word "cool" means, you'd probably get 10 different definitions.

So... I haven't had time to read any of the verses provided yet in my King James Version here, but hopefully at some point this weekend I will be able to.

I really appreciate people providing the Books, chapters and verses for me.

And AllHeart, did you ever hear the St. Francis of Assisi quote 'Preach the Gospel where ever you go, and if you must, even use words'? I thought of that when reading through your posts and thought you might like it. It's one of my own personal favorites... =)


Hi Marg,

No I actually never did hear that. I like it as well - and it does help me out with understanding. Thanks :)

Synn -

I just found this website - that addresses a lot on this topic and speaks about, just what you said interpretations. I find it interesting:
Bible Verses on Homosexuality - What the Bible Says - Christian Teens - Homosexuality (http://christianteens.about.com/od/whatthebiblesaysabout/a/wbsaHomosexual.htm)

First, I only share my thoughts that represent what I believe.

What I will acknowledge is that any form of hatred demonstrated, could never be tied back to the bible, in my opinion.

Those that shout, scream and voice hatred, I would never question the love they have for Christ in their hearts, because I do not know. I do beleive that their behavior is not Christian like, is not Christ like. Personally, and this may be awful to say, but those that
stand outside abortion clinics, hollering, screaming, calling people murders, or on street corners, spreading hatred, I, in my heart, feel that something may not be completely right with them, and again, can not be tied back to the bible.

I agree with you 100% - the best way to bring someone to God's loving arms, is not by
harsh hateful words, but by loving quiet example.

I will also say, that many times, most times, my actions, my words, are not Christ like - are a poor example of God's love - but I have immense love in my heart for Christ, that's why I could never judge anothers love for our Lord.

If Jesus, nailed to the cross, with a crown of thorns, after being brutually beaten, can raise His loving eyes to God, and say, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do". How could I, a sinner, ever turn my eyes, my heart, be judgemental of anyone.

Apparently this discussion has shifted from "where in the Bible are the scriptures on homosexuality" to whether Christians should denounce sinful behavior.

Let me ask you , do you consider denouncing sin to be hateful?

Matthew 23 14 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites: because you devour the houses of widows, praying long prayers. For this you shall receive the greater judgment.

Galatians 1 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.

Galatians 3 1 O senseless Galatians, who hath bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been set forth, crucified among you?

You might want to consider that one of the reasons Jesus was crucified is because He denounced sin.

Romans 8 17 And if sons, heirs also; heirs indeed of God, and joint heirs with Christ: yet so, if we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified with him.

Sincerely,

De Maria

No DeMaria -

Spreading God's word and love, NOOOO I do not consider hateful, quite the opposite. It is a loving thing to do.

What I meant by hateful, is those that scream terrible names, condemn with such hateful vigor, that's what I meant.

Relax and try and realize that there are good people in this world, trying to make a loving difference.

No DeMaria -

Spreading God's word and love, NOOOO I do not consider hateful, quite the opposite. It is a loving thing to do.

What I meant by hateful, is those that scream terrible names, condemn with such hateful vigor, that's what I meant.

Relax and try and realize that there are good people in this world, trying to make a loving difference.

I'm relaxed. What makes you think I'm not?

But I'm also trying to make sense of what you are saying.

Thanks for the clarification. As I understand your NOOOO. You believe that people should condemn sin. Wonderful!

One more clarification please. Do you consider that practicing homosexuality, that is sex with a person of the same sex, is sinful? Or do you go against Christian, Catholic and Bible teaching in that regard?

Sincerely,

De Maria

Apparently this discussion has shifted from "where in the Bible are the scriptures on homosexuality" to whether or not Christians should denounce sinful behavior.

Let me ask you , do you consider denouncing sin to be hateful?

Let me ask you, do you consider Rev Phelp going around to soldiers funerals with anti-gay sins the right thing to do?
There IS a difference BIG between being hateful and winning people over through Christian love.

I'm relaxed. What makes you think I'm not?

But I'm also trying to make sense of what you are saying.

Thanks for the clarification. As I understand your NOOOO. You believe that people should condemn sin. Wonderful!

One more clarification please. Do you consider that practicing homosexuality, that is sex with a person of the same sex, is sinful? Or do you go against Christian, Catholic and Bible teaching in that regard?

Sincerely,

De Maria

Because you come off harsh and judgemental and borderline unkind. If I don't post the way you like - you refer to me as a hyprocrite.

Yes, in reading the bible passages, I do believe that homosexuality is a sin but it gives no one the right, and I am not saying that you are, it gives no one the right to stand over top of anyone, and hurt their very soul.

Let me ask you, do you consider Rev Phelp going around to soldiers funerals with anti-gay sins the right thing to do?
There IS a difference BIG between being hateful and winning people over through Christian love.

Rev Phelps? I've never heard of him.

Anti-gay sins? Do you mean that he promotes that people should harm gays? Or does he preach against violence towards gays?

In either case, my message is clear. I believe and follow the teachings of the Catholic Church. The Church teaches that homosexuality, the practice of sex between people of the same gender, is sinful. The Church preaches that all people should repent of their sins and embrace the teachings of Jesus Christ.

The Church also teaches that attacking anyone, gay or straight, is a sin. Therefore, if any person, be he Christian or not, is either physically or even verbally attacking gay people, should also repent of that sin and embrace the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Sincerely,

De Maria

He holds protests and screams hate speech against gays (basically so he gets media attention).

Westboro Baptist Church Home Page (http://www.godhatesfags.com/)

To me I think would I hate my child and openly condemn them if they were gay or would I try and love them and pray for them

Because you come off harsh and judgemental and borderline unkind. If I don't post the way you like - you refer to me as a hyprocrite.

Are you referring to my pm to you? I don't remember calling you a hypocrite, although I do remember quoting a Scripture passage with that word in it.

And I also remember that I ended that message with something around these lines:
Consider this a loving admonition from a brother in Christ. If I have misunderstood your post, please explain it to me.


If you have taken that message or series of messages which we exchanged, in the wrong spirit, so be it.


Yes, in reading the bible passages, I do believe that homosexuality is a sin

Thank God.


but it gives no one the right, and I am not saying that you are,

Thank you. Because I'm not.


it gives no one the right to stand over top of anyone, and hurt their very soul.

Is anyone in this forum doing so? Who? And if no one is doing so, why do you bring it up?

Sincerely,

De Maria

Oh for heaven's sake.

I did NOT want another thread with a debate. I deliberately posted this away from that thread with the debate.

Would a mod please close this thread, please? I got the info I needed, and I don't want another 300 post thread that debates essentially the same thing as the LAST post about homosexuality.

I just wanted to know what the verses were in the Bible.

Jeesh.

Rev Phelps? I've never heard of him.
Of course you have never heard of him...
And I assume you also never have heard about the intolerance of the RCC with it's inquisition...

:D

·

He holds protests and screams hate speech against gays (basically so he gets media attention).

Westboro Baptist Church Home Page (http://www.godhatesfags.com/)

To me I think would I hate my child and openly condemn them if they were gay or would I try and love them and pray for them

Since you would pray for your child, that would indicate you believe homosexuality is wrong and that you believe in God.

Let me ask you then, would you advise your child that being gay is a sin? Or would you consider that to be a lack of love?

I don't see anything wrong in teaching your kids Christian morals and values.
I am talking about turning people off with the 'God hates gays and they are doomed to hell'.
I don't see people treating adulterer's or criminals that way.

Of course you have never heard of him...

I've heard of him now. I haven't had time to read the website about him though.


And I assume you also never have heard about the intolerance of the RCC with it's inquisition...

Anytime you want to debate about what you perceive was wrong with the Inquisition, start a thread on the matter.

But I imagine, you're really not interested in truth or in details. You're just taking another opportunity to throw darts at religion.

Sincerely,

De Maria

I don't see anything wrong in teaching your kids Christian morals and values.

Good. I agree.


I am talking about turning people off with the 'God hates gays

Has anyone on this forum said that God hates gays?


and they are doomed to hell'.

Do you believe that people who persist in their sins will go to hell? Or do you believe they will go to heaven?


I don't see people treating adulterer's or criminals that way.

You don't? I don't know what Church you belong to. But I'm Catholic and the Catholic Church says that unrepentant sinners of any kind will condemn themselves to hell.

Good. I agree.

Has anyone on this forum said that God hates gays?

I wasn't referring to this forum but people in general.


Do you believe that people who persist in their sins will go to hell? Or do you believe they will go to heaven?

That is up to God not saying that he would but it is not up to me


You don't? I don't know what Church you belong to. But I'm Catholic and the Catholic Church says that unrepentant sinners of any kind will condemn themselves to hell.
BUT that is what the Bible and the church teaching says. I meant I do not SEE/HEAR people openly condemning
[treating] adulterer's or criminals to the point they turn them further from God. Don't know how you missed my point on that.

I wasn't referring to this forum but people in general.

Oh! I see. I guess that's part of our miscommunication. I don't see the same thing from people in general. Mostly what I see is people trying to excuse the behavior.

So, since I don't see it in the general population, I thought you meant in this forum on this thread.


That is up to God not saying that he would but it is not up to me

Well, I guess the difference between you and I is that I believe God has already revealed His will in that regard. And if my child were a homosexual or an adulterer or whatever, I would feel that out of love for my child it would be my duty to remind him that persistence in that sin would lead him to hell.


BUT that is what the Bible and the church teaching says. I meant I do not SEE/HEAR people openly condemning [treating] adulterer's or criminals to the point they turn them further from God. Don't know how you missed my point on that.

Nor do I. However, I do see people from our parish and from other Christian affiliations (not from the general population) who do their best to explain why certain behaviors are against the will of God.

Anyway, nice talking to you.

Sincerely,

De Maria