What can you tell me about de-barking a dog? Can it be reversed?

I think it sounds mean and downright in-humane.

If your child was too loud and annoying, would you want to de-voice them too?

Reversible? No idea.

This wouldn't be because she is "annoying", she doesn't annoy me, but its either this or get rid of her, and I love her too much. Perhaps I should rephrase the question..

Debarking is cutting the vocal cords. It cannot be reversed. If I had a choice between debarking my very loud labs or giving them away , I would find them a great home. Debarking is inhumane and I would not do it

There is no way I can part with my little girl. She wouldn't be able to be away from me either, she acts out.

Oh gosh CM! Please don't even consider doing that! It DOES involve cutting their vocal cords, and is NOT reversible! That is their only way of expressing themselves! I know you love your little fur babe enough not to do that! I have done a lot of research on ecxessive barking, and there are other many other training methods. I will post a few sites that may help you. It takes a lot of disipline training, but I think you would rather do that than to scar your pup for life, or have to give her up!

Pumpkin for cats - pumpkin for dogs - weekly pet tips by Pets.ca (http://www.pets.ca/pettips/tips-75.htm)

- Dog Tricks Academy Lounge (http://www.dogtrickacademy.com/members/forum/)

They will probably show up with weird names when I post them, (because I just have them in my shortcuts) but you'll be able to navigate around. There is some very good advice there.

EDIT: Yes, just like I thought. But click on the first one, and scroll down to exessive barking. The second isn't only about "dog tricks" either.

Hope that helps.

I'm not saying I'm considering it, I'm doing research into things. So that's the basis of my question.

That's why I posted those two sites hun! I know you don't want to harm your pup.

Thanks starbuck, I'll definitely look at them.

Hi there CM. It's been explained to me that it is not nearly as cruel as these people are saying. That the dog still makes a noise when it "barks" it 's just not the same to our ears but that the dog still feels as though he is barking. My suggestion is to maybe ask a professional, like a vet.

I actually asked a few vets in town what they thought, and they all said it was cruel and they refused to do it in their practices... so, I mean that took away my tiny bit of consideration for it.

Hi there CM. It's been explained to me that it is not nearly as cruel as these people are saying. That the dog still makes a noise when it "barks" it 's just not the same to our ears but that the dog still feels as though he is barking. My suggestion is to maybe ask a professional, like a vet.

I don't think they're speaking in regards to physical pain... it's really an thing of Ethics. It's like de-clawing your cat.

Chihuahua momma, when does your dog bark? Have you tried the water bottle? And if your dog is barking non-stop, it's clearly unbalanced, I'd try to find someone who specializes in dog psychology rather than obedience.

She barks in the day time when I am at work. And please explain this water bottle...

Water bottles work better for cats than they do dogs. And it's still cruel to spray your little one in the face when they do something you don't like.

Oh spraying her with water? No, she's a very well behaved little girl. She just barks when I am not home, she's lonely. If it weren't for my neighbor being uneomployed and sleeping until 3pm, it wouldn't even be an issue. But I'm moving to a new apartment soon, so I need to make sure she is trained to hush while home alone.

Maybe she is anxious when you are gone. They do have anti-anxiety medication for these dogs

Is that safe for a dog as small as a chihuahua??

I don't know you would have to ask the vet and he would give you a prescription for it

CM, here's what I used for my dog. No evasive, kind, and works like a charm. Also, you don't have to purchase, allot of pet stores will rent these collars out for a minimal price. Two weeks and my dog was trained. Check out the link.

Dog Training Collar Citronella Gentle Spray Collars (http://www.multivet.net/en/dog-training-collar.htm)

De-barking, in my opinion, is one of the cruelest things we as humans can do to a dog. I've met people with dogs that have been de-barked, those poor animals, it's the saddest thing you will ever hear, because yes, they can still make a sound, but it's not a bark, sounds like someone dry heaving. It is painful for the dog, and it is not reversible.

Good luck.

Ugh, I'm tired of explaining how to rid of you dog of almost every behavior problem it has with one simple method, sans, water bottles or medications.

Please read Cesar's Way by Cesar Milan. Your dog isn't lonely, they're not like us.. a kitty or another dog wouldn't stop her from barking. Please read the book..

Here are some of the problems my dog had and after reading the book and doing a little more research has over come..

-barking/crying while I was at work
-tearing up anything, drywall, couch, floor
-pulling on the leash
-over excitement
-demanding
-crate (doesn't need it anymore)
-jumping up
Etc etc. all I could come up with right now..

CM, here's what I used for my dog. No evasive, kind, and works like a charm. Also, you don't have to purchase, allot of pet stores will rent these collars out for a minimal price. Two weeks and my dog was trained. Check out the link.

Dog Training Collar Citronella Gentle Spray Collars (http://www.multivet.net/en/dog-training-collar.htm)

De-barking, in my opinion, is one of the cruelest things we as humans can do to a dog. I've met people with dogs that have been de-barked, those poor animals, it's the saddest thing you will ever hear, because yes, they can still make a sound, but it's not a bark, sounds like someone dry heaving. It is painful for the dog, and it is not reversible.

Good luck.


Cool, thank you, I will definitely ask at petco about themm.. Thanks again for the idea.

I don't think they're speaking in regards to physical pain... it's really an thing of Ethics. It's like de-clawing your cat.

Chihuahua momma, when does your dog bark? Have you tried the water bottle? and if your dog is barking non-stop, it's clearly unbalanced, I'd try to find someone who specializes in dog psychology rather than obedience.

Spinphoto, your post is a bit confusing. I think everyone believes that you don't think that the dog suffers with pain when being de-barked. I re-read your post a few times, and still really don't understand where you stand on this issue. Do you or do you not agree with de-barking your dog? From re-reading I think you don't agree, but I'm not sure, and that's why others gave you a disagree.

There are allot of other methods to get your dog to stop barking. I haven't read the book that you suggested, but that is something for CM to look in to. Personally, the citronella collar worked wonders for my dog, and the fact that it doesn't harm or hurt the dog was the main reason for me to try it. The water bottle is another way, but it is a bit harder, because you constantly have to be around the dog when it is barking, if the dog is barking while you are at work, then that's not really possible.

CM, are there family members or close friends that live nearby that could come and check on your dog while you are at work. Maybe take her for a quick walk, throw the ball around, let her out for a pee, that might help as well. Also, make sure she has tons of stuff to occupy her while you are gone, chew toys, or a kong stuffed with a treat. Let me know how it all works out.

Good luck.

No, there's no one near enough to take her for a walk at lunch. And I think that would make things worse, as she barks for about any hour after I leave and around 6 when she knows I'm about to be home.

Here a few things you may try that might help if you haven't already tried them.
Leave on the radio or the t.v.
Leave her with a shirt that smells like you.
Give her a kong filled with frozen goodies to work on while you are away.

I've tried all those things. But thank you for the suggestions.

Little dogs tend to bark a lot. It's their nature to do this. I sure hope you can train her not to bark so much. My jack russell barks when I leave her in the house and go outside without her. She's just trying to get my attention. Good luck teaching her. I hope you succeed!

Thanks Twinkiedooter.

I think your pups biggest problem is that she has separation anxiety issues. I don't believe in medicating dogs just to make it easier on the owners. How long do you take her out in the morning before you leave for work. You need to drain her energy before you leave.

Do you let her have the run of the home when you're gone? If you do, a smaller space might be necessary. You have to prepare her for the smaller space though, or that won't work either. You need to do that when you are home. She needs to be put in a small space, and then made to stay there, while you are going about your normal routine. Put her in a small space, somewhere that has a door. Leave the door open at first, but if she tries to come out, send her back, with no words other than a short command. You might have to do it a lot of times.

Once she has learned that she has to stay in the designated place, start opening and closing the door every few minutes, but again don't let her come out. Still with no exictment or talking, just a command for her to go back to her place. Make normal noises, like you would when you are normally home.

This should work, if it's done consistently, to reduce her abandonment and anxiety issues. Also, when you come home, DO NOT get her excited saying things like,. "mommie's home", (also not when you leave) Calmly open the door where she is, don't let her come out immediately, and then invite her out. If she gets too excited because of your excitement, she becomes anxious. Once you are in charge, and she knows it is only okay for her to come out when you say so,. give her ALL THE LOVE IN THE WORLD!

Don't worry that this is being mean or hurtful to her. It will teach her that you are her pack leader, and she has to follow your lead. That will make her a lot happier than sitting and being anxious all day, wondering when you will return with excitement!

I hope I explained that in a way that was easy to understand. It really does work, and stops the barking. The first key is to drain her energy first. I understand you might not have a lot of time before work in the mornings, and it's hard. Actually, if you have a treadmill, you could try to get her to walk on that too, to save you some time in the morning. I know this has worked for some people, so it's just another option for you.

Good luck! :) I would hate for you to have to give up your sweet girl!

She stays in the kitchen with a baby gate while I'm not home. That's not an issue. And I don't greet her until she is quiet. She goes out for a walk before work, just to the end of the parking lot and back.

I'd say that she needs more exercise in the morning before you leave. I'd be trying for at least a half hour brisk walk. (Brisk for you, it would be good if she was running, which is pretty easy to do with a chi.) If that doesn't wear her out, then you may need to go up to an hour. Little dogs have a lot of energy, and they need to be exercised a lot. And, as any trainer will tell you, a tired dog is a good dog.

Chihuahua momma, I never said animals can't be lonely, I disagree in this case, the dog isn't lonely. The souls comment is just plain futile. Everyone on this forum should open their minds to this book. For a long time, people have been raising their dogs in an unnatural way to them, which causes confusion and in essence, causes behavior problems. I have a wonderful balanced dog. He looks up to me as his leader and he is the follower, he is polite, calm and obedient. With no obedience classes at all. He is a rescue dog and came with a bag full of behavior problems, which is probably how why he was abandoned in the first place. I rehabilitated him and he is so happy go lucky now, his life is fulfilled as a dog.

Progunr: Again, did I mention the dog doesn't feel physical pain? Please, I'm am not incompetent, I was pointing out how some are against the procedure or find it cruel because it's painful and also because it is robbing the dog of what is natural to it, (personal ethics~~) as some people believe de-clawing their cat is also wrong for the same reasons.

And, Starbuck, this isn't a matter of obedience training. If everyone understood the psychology of a dog, their dogs wouldn't have behavior problems, dogs aren't born with 'issues' in fact there aren't any issues until, they're introduced to humans.

Spinphoto! What I wrote was exactly what I saw Cesar Milan do with a dog with the same issues. For future reference, I do have his book also!

The dogs energy has to be drained first and foremost! Not just a walk to end of the parking lot. Vigorous exercise in the morning is necessary!

Edit: I too have a well balanced dog!

I've actually tried walking her farther, she tries laying down. I have to wake up at 4am to get her to take that long of a walk, and she just doesn't want to. She goes to the park for 1 1/2 hours every day at five or so... usually a bit after 6.

Spinphoto--How can you be so sure that my dog isn't lonely?

Well, honestly now that you've mentioned she refuses to walk, it sounds to me like a leadership issue.. which is totally typical of little dogs, they're princesses..
I agree with starbuck, that is exactly how I got my dog to stop freaking out when I left the house...

I've actually tried walking her farther, she tries laying down. I have to wake up at 4am to get her to take that long of a walk, and she just doesn't want to. She goes to the park for 1 1/2 hours every day at five or so....usually a bit after 6.

Spinphoto--How can you be so sure that my dog isn't lonely?

Well that is awfully early to get up, before a full days work! Have you checked into professional dog walkers in the area you are moving to? Often, if you contact the ASPCA, they have walkers that they will recommend, in your price range. You may even want to get to know your neighbors in your new apt. and see if anyone would be willing to walk her, and check on her throughout the day... or they might even have older kids that would be willing to do it for spending money! If you or a dog walker has a bike or roller blades, that would be helpful to drain her energy a lot quicker too! Just make sure you start slow, since she is probably not used to that, and keep a short leash.

I recommended a treadmill also. It might be a good investment, and time saver, so you wouldn't have to get up so early. You might be able to find a second hand one. It doesn't have to have all the bells and whistles, just something to make her walk to drain her energy, until you are home and able to take her out to the dog park.

Don't let her decide when you are going on walks. That is part of being the pack leader. She follows your lead, not the other way around. That gives her control, and you need to let her know that you are the one that is in control. Don't feel bad that because she's a little dog, that you don't want her feelings to be hurt. You are teaching her acceptable behaviour. Little dogs are no different than big dogs. They all need to be taught the same way.

Spinphoto, she doesn't want to walk that early in the morning because she'd rather sleep. I don't think that there is a leadership issue. She obeys all of my commands.

I can't afford to get a treadmill or hire someone to walk her, I just recently became employed after not having a job after 6 weeks, I'm still in catch up mode.

But thanks for the suggestions.

Progunr: Again, did I mention the dog doesn't feel physical pain? Please, I'm am not incompetent, I was pointing out how some are against the procedure or find it cruel because it's painful and also because it is robbing the dog of what is natural to it, (personal ethics~~) as some people believe de-clawing their cat is also wrong for the same reasons.

.


Were did you hear that a dog doesn't feel pain when being de-barked? I'd like to see written proof by experts about that bit of info. Are you saying that cats don't feel pain when being de-clawed? Well, I've seen both operations, I've also been around the animal after the procedure, if they aren't in physical pain, then they sure do play the part very well. Eventually the pain will go away, the animal will get use to the unnaturalness of no longer having a voice, but they will feel pain after the procedure is done, just like any other living creature would after an operation.

I couldn't stand seeing my baby after she got fixed. She was so miserable. | hated it.

CM, that may have had more to do with her anxiety issues... not the actual procedure. They heal pretty quickly from that, and most dogs are back to their normal self the same or next day. I've had many dogs spayed or neutered, and have never once seen any ill effects. I know you love her, but are you perhaps babying her too much? I know I tend to do that to, and I really have to stop myself sometimes, because I don't want her to be anxious when I leave the house. I still give her lots of love, but I try and let her be on her own when I am home, so she is used to that when I do have to leave.

Exactly CM.

Spinphoto;I don't begrudge anyone their right to choose what they want for their dog, obviously it's legal to de-bark a dog, allot of vets will do it, allot won't. I do have a problem with people giving out mis-information, saying that the dog won't feel pain is not true. Also, if you've ever heard a dog after he's been de-barked, you would never be able to do it, it is the saddest thing I've ever heard.

Sorry if I sound snappy, I feel very strongly about this, especially since there are so many other methods of getting your dog to stop barking. Remember, this is their voice, how would you feel if someone took your voice away?

CM, really, try the citronella spray collar, if that doesn't work then I'll do some more research for you and we'll find something that will. Okay? Hugs. :)

I don't think that I baby her too much. She has her alone time when I am home. In fact, she is sleeping in the living room alone right now. The reason I had such a hard time with it was because they didn't give us a cone, and I had to keep a close eye on her to make sure she didn't lick. She would jump off the high couches and make a little yelp when she did, and it made me sad. I am protective of her and she is my baby, but I try not to baby her too much.

It's hard with THIS face:
http://i26.tinypic.com/2127jo1.jpg

Awwwww... what a cutie! Sure can't resist that girl... those big eyes!

I love her stripe, right between the eyes. Big hugs to her, she's a sweetie. :)

I love her markings, people always think that she is a rat terrier, and it's annoying. :P

She's worth the time and effort to get her trained to stop barking, she really is, but aren't they all? :)

She's a cutie CM, give her a big hug, she's worth it. :)

Altenweg maybe you should re–read my quote before getting all worked up. For someone to say the dog/cat doesn't feel pain is just plain ignorant.

Honestly, if you can't deal with barking, why did you get a dog? Don't de-bark a dog. That's just taking away the first amendment: freedom of bark.

Altenweg maybe you should re–read my quote before getting all worked up. For someone to say the dog/cat doesn't feel pain is just plain ignorant.


Your post is very hard to read, it's not very clear how you feel about the pain issue. If I was mistaken then I apologize.

Altenweg maybe you should re–read my quote before getting all worked up. For someone to say the dog/cat doesn't feel pain is just plain ignorant.

I agree with Altenweg! It's very hard to tell what side of the fence you are on sometimes with the way they are worded! It's a little hard to get a clear view.:confused:

Honestly, if you can't deal with barking, why did you get a dog? Don't de-bark a dog. That's just taking away the first amendment: freedom of bark.

I'm not going to be rude, but please read threads before posting in them. I don't know how many times this can be said. I never said I can't deal with the barking. My neighbors can't. Nor did I say I was actually considering de-barking my dog. I was simply asking about the procedure..

Altenweg maybe you should re–read my quote before getting all worked up. For someone to say the dog/cat doesn't feel pain is just plain ignorant.
Sarcasm is hard to detect over the internet, I got it but yeah, it did seem like you had jumped the fence from your stance.

Fin.

I'm pro-choice. I don't personally agree with it and wouldn't recommend it.

Again, I never said that it was something that I was considering. I was simply asking for information on the subject.

CM I commend you for seeking advice and information before making any decisions.

We were going to get our cats declawed UNTIL we found out what that meant. I was still a kid, but my parents thought it would be convenient. My dad took them to the vet - they were already scheduled for the procedure and lying on the tables - and then the vet explained exactly what the operation entails. This caused my dad to do something completely out of character - he whisked the cats right out of there and brought them home. THANK GOD, because they hadn't explained to us in the consultation that they were going to chop of the tips of each of their little fingers. I'm sorry, but how could that NOT be cruel? How could an animal not mind losing its FINGERS?

The fact is that LOTS of doctors are just body businessmen, and it's disgusting. They'll do anything that pays for their membership down at the golf club and their vacations in the bahamas. This includes disgusting and unethical mutilation of animals for things that do everything BUT benefit the animals themselves. NO cat on the planet NEEDS to be declawed. NO cat claws THAT much. It's the same thing for dogs. By the way, consider that de-barking a dog is also - in addition to being unbelievably immoral and selfish - an extremely lazy person's cheap way of getting out a small part of the basic training that all dog owners are responsible for.

If you don't want an animal that barks, then don't get a dog.

so your dog pees on the rug sometimes. are you going to have his bladder removed? he chewed up your shoes. why don't you have them remove his teeth? it's exactly the same thing.

How would you like to have YOUR vocal chords cut to smithereens? How would you feel if someone else decided that FOR YOU?

At the same time, I understand that you are just looking for information, and I understand the hope you had that it might be reversible so that one day you could put her back to normal. Unfortunately, it's impossible to do. I commend you for coming here for information, as that's exactly what I would have done if I were you. Obviously, I've come on a bit strong here, but this is something that I really take to heart and feel strongly about. On that note, I want you to know that my post is for anyone who might have considered doing it, and definitely not an attack on you. I want to prevent it if I can in any way.

Some years ago, my ex's mom went looking for a puppy from a breeder. She arrived at their place, and there were all of these dogs mouthing barks. Not a single sound was coming out of them. They had all had their vocal chords cut. She said it was the saddest thing she had ever seen. I imagine it was also extremely creepy.

Do not, do not, do not do it.

we were going to get our cats declawed UNTIL we found out what that meant. i was still a kid, but my parents thought it would be convenient. my dad took them to the vet - they were already scheduled for the procedure and lying on the tables - and then the vet explained exactly what the operation entails. this caused my dad to do something completely out of character - he whisked the cats right out of there and brought them home. THANK GOD, because they hadn't explained to us in the consultation that they were going to chop of the tips of each of their little fingers.

i'm sorry, but how could that NOT be cruel? how could an animal not mind losing its FINGERS?

the fact is that LOTS of doctors are just body businessmen, and it's disgusting. they'll do anything that pays for their membership down at the golf club and their vacations in the bahamas. this includes disgusting and unethical mutilation of animals for things that do everything BUT benefit the animals themselves. NO cat on the planet NEEDS to be declawed. NO cat claws THAT much.

it's the same thing for dogs. btw, consider that de-barking a dog is also - in addition to being unbelievably immoral and selfish - an extremely lazy person's cheap way of getting out a small part of the basic training that all dog owners are responsible for.

if you don't want an animal that barks, then don't get a dog.

so your dog pees on the rug sometimes. are you going to have his bladder removed? he chewed up your shoes. why don't you have them remove his teeth? it's exactly the same thing.

how would you like to have YOUR vocal chords cut to smithereens? how would you feel if someone else decided that FOR YOU?

DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT DO IT.

Sometimes you really do have to read back a few posts before you comment. She is not going to do it, and that was established many posts ago. I can't stress enough that everyone at least skim through everything that has been written.

I absolutely agree with you! I don't believe in declawing cats either, unless there is a medical reason to do so. That is why everyone has to carefully consider the conditions when they decide to get a pet! (hopefully adopt) You don't get them just because they are cute! They are not so cute when you don't pay enough attn to their breed, and their care, and then some people get mad at the untrained pet when it pees on the rug, or acts out in unusual ways.

Pets cost a lot of money! Everyone who adopts a pet shoud be ready for the expense and the time involved!

Sometimes you really do have to read back a few posts before you comment. She is not going to do it, and that was established many posts ago. I can't stress enough that everyone at least skim through everything that has been written.

I absolutely agree with you! I don't believe in declawing cats either, unless there is a medical reason to do so. That is why everyone has to carefully consider the conditions when they decide to get a pet! (hopefully adopt) You don't get them just because they are cute!! They are not so cute when you don't pay enough attn to their breed, and their care, and then some people get mad at the untrained pet when it pees on the rug, or acts out in unusual ways.

Pets cost alot of money!! Everyone who adopts a pet shoud be ready for the expense and the time involved!!

(actually, you must have gotten to my post before I got the chance to edit the rest of my response, which was literally just seconds after it went up. I didn't intend for it to go out unfinished. I always read the preceding posts, thank you kindly. Just the same, in asking for information, a fair response easily includes a moral stand on this particular issue, which is exactly what I had written in the part you quoted.)

Just out of curiosity, what exactly would you consider to be a medical reason for declawing a cat? End-of-your-fingers-cancer? Or a really expensive new couch and a persian rug...

Linnealand, you obviously don't know Starbuck very well if that's what you think. I realize that you are new to this site, and therefore you deserve to be cut a bit of slack, let me tell you, Starbuck is an animal advocate, as such she would never agree with a procedure that would cause an animal pain, NEVER!

There are medical reasons for declawing a cat, if the nail is deformed or causing the animal pain then sometimes it has to be removed in order for the cat to lead a normal healthy life. Declawing a cat or de-barking a dog because their habits are annoying is the easy way out of a situation that can be controlled with time and patience. We've already established that, many posts ago. It is okay for you to give your opinion, but it is a good idea to read others posts before doing so. Your position has been stated by many others, you can agree with those people to show your support.

CM has decided not to de-bark her dog, she was looking for information and alternative ways to get her dog to stop barking. Also, it's not her that the barking bothers, it's her neighbors, and that's why something has to be done. She has gotten some great advice from people who have owned dogs for a long time, and she's going to try those. CM is also a good person, I know this for a fact.

I just want to let you know about the people that you are judging. Starbuck is a personal friend of mine, I know her very well, and I happen to know that she loves all animals and would go to any length to make sure and animal is treated fairly and kindly.

I'm not trying to be mean, and I agree with your position, but it has been stated repeatedly already on this thread. As you continue on this site you will get to know people better, and get to know their position on things. You will see Starbuck and me on many of the threads concerning dogs, because we both love dogs very much. Now you know a bit about some of our members, and you will get to know more the longer you are here.

Have fun, jump in, but be sure to read all posts before responding, if someone has already stated your opinion then just agree with them. :)

Alty gets big hugs from me for the sweetness!!

Alty loves big hugs, right back at you CM. :)

Haha~~YIPPY!! Susan gives you a big hug, too! She gives everyone in this post a BIG HUG!!

Big hug to Susan too. :)

This thread certainly has taken on a life of it's own, hasn't it? Every time I think it's done, someone else has to add an opinion. That's all good, just wish that previous posts were read before they post. Oh well, what can you do? Just keep on keeping on. :)

(actually, you must have gotten to my post before i got the chance to edit the rest of my response, which was literally just seconds after it went up. i didn't intend for it to go out unfinished. i always read the preceding posts, thank you kindly. just the same, in asking for information, a fair response easily includes a moral stand on this particular issue, which is exactly what i had written in the part you quoted.)

just out of curiosity, what exactly would you consider to be a medical reason for declawing a cat? end-of-your-fingers-cancer? or a really expensive new couch and a persian rug...

Yes their can be medical reasons for declawing a cat. I take offense to your reply! It was rude and uncalled for, "thankyou kindly." I suggest you read what Alty had to say, many times. I have had many dogs in my life, and the majority of them came from shelters. I have volunteered for many yrs for the SPCA, and Humane Society. I also do fund raising for a local shelter.

I would do anything for my animals!. and I mean anything, including getting in between my dog and a large vicious breed a month ago, when my dog was being attacked! I would have taken the next bite before I would have let my babe get more. I had to rush her into the emergency wkd after hrs vet for emergency surgery for her wounds, and because she was having seizures! She required 86 stitches and a 3 day vet stay with 24 hr supervision, and I didn't sleep a wink, worrying! She is not the same dog as she once was, and I refuse to leave her at home alone, until I can be sure she is back to normal. I have over a thousand dollars in vet bills, and the owner of the other dog is refusing to take any responsibility! The point is that I DON'T CARE!. as long as my dog is safe and healthy.

So please DON'T EVER accuse me of advocating ill treatment of an animal!

Also, it is not my fault that you decided to edit your post, even if you did it seconds later, although, I have my own thoughts on why you did that. I don't sit around on one thread just waiting to see if someone has revised their post.

Don't worry Starby, those that know you know how much you love animals, those that don't will learn. We know what kind of person you are, and we know how much you love all animals, that is very evident in all of your posts. You are a wonderful kind caring person, I'm not the only one who knows it. :)

Jeesh, sappy lovey dovey Alty today. Group hug all, come on! :)

Don't worry Starby, those that know you know how much you love animals, those that don't will learn. We know what kind of person you are, and we know how much you love all animals, that is very evident in all of your posts. You are a wonderful kind caring person, I'm not the only one who knows it. :)

Jeesh, sappy lovey dovey Alty today. Group hug all, come on! :)

Awwww, shucks! :) Thank you dear Alty! Right back at you! I will dingle you soon okay? (Ohhh, that sounded dirty didn't it!. HAHAHAHA!) ;)

It did sound a bit dirty. Just to clarify, Starby is calling Alty in a minute, on the phone, for chitchat, that's all! ;)

OK, someone needs to break up this mushy mushy stuff!

I just want to add, some of us answer in a direct, matter of fact way, while others take a considerable amount of time, to go over every word, so as to not offend or belittle someone.

I ran across a guy on the radio today, on a show called handel on the law.

Anyone ever heard this guy, he is a HOOT!

A guy called in, and opened his question with "I took my dog to the vet and had him put to sleep", before he could say another word, Bill said "No sir, you did not have your dog put to sleep, you KILLED your dog".

The guy tried to argue, "no, the vet put him to sleep"! Bill says, OK, when is he going to wake up? Don't you know sleep is a temporary condition, you could put your dog to sleep in your lap, and he will wake up"! You killed your dog, you did not put him to sleep"!
"You need to learn how to state things accurately"!

That little exchange, reminded me of some of the back and forth stuff we see here on AMHD.

If you enjoy that type of personality, which I do, you should give a listen to his show sometime. Not only can you hear lots of good legal advice, you get some serious chuckles out of it as well.

CM, did you ever think that one little question, would lead to so much response?

I'm glad your dog won't be losing it's voice anytime soon!!

Linnealand, you obviously don't know Starbuck very well if that's what you think. I realize that you are new to this site, and therefore you deserve to be cut a bit of slack, let me tell you, Starbuck is an animal advocate, as such she would never agree with a procedure that would cause an animal pain, NEVER!

There are medical reasons for declawing a cat, if the nail is deformed or causing the animal pain then sometimes it has to be removed in order for the cat to lead a normal healthy life. Declawing a cat or de-barking a dog because their habits are annoying is the easy way out of a situation that can be controlled with time and patience. We've already established that, many posts ago. It is okay for you to give your opinion, but it is a good idea to read others posts before doing so. Your position has been stated by many others, you can agree with those people to show your support.

CM has decided not to de-bark her dog, she was looking for information and alternative ways to get her dog to stop barking. Also, it's not her that the barking bothers, it's her neighbors, and that's why something has to be done. She has gotten some great advice from people who have owned dogs for a long time, and she's going to try those. CM is also a good person, I know this for a fact.

I just want to let you know about the people that you are judging. Starbuck is a personal friend of mine, I know her very well, and I happen to know that she loves all animals and would go to any length to make sure and animal is treated fairly and kindly.

I'm not trying to be mean, and I agree with your position, but it has been stated repeatedly already on this thread. As you continue on this site you will get to know people better, and get to know their position on things. You will see Starbuck and me on many of the threads concerning dogs, because we both love dogs very much. Now you know a bit about some of our members, and you will get to know more the longer you are here.

Have fun, jump in, but be sure to read all posts before responding, if someone has already stated your opinion then just agree with them. :)


Hold your horses, my friend! I don't know how thoroughly you read my posts, but not one part of anything I wrote went into judging anyone or saying anything personal. I shared my feelings on the subject of de-barking and de-clawing. While there were in fact other people that agreed with position, my post included two personal stories and unique ways of expressing why I hold my opinion. Certainly I can't be expected to only say with whom I agree or disagree, right? :) plus, how many times do I have to write that I read the previous posts? I'm not really sure why you decided that I didn't. I contributed because I wanted to be helpful and informative, just like everyone else here. I was also very clear in being supportive of and nice to CM. I even said that I would be asking exactly the same thing if I were her. I'm sure you wrote what you wrote with the best intentions, but if ill be totally honest and tell you that I'm slightly confused as to why you have dedicated your entire post to telling me what you think I did wrong, when I didn't actually do the things you said I did. I don't want this to drag on - actually, I think that we are coming from the same place, and we are all advocates to the proper care of dogs (and all animals for that matter). :) granted, you don't know me anymore than I know you, but I can promise you that I don't have a single crumb of angst or personal opposition towards anyone. I'm a very friendly, open person. When I asked starbuck what she meant by de-clawing for medical reasons, I was asking because I really wanted to know what those might be. Perhaps my method of friendly, gentle jostling could have been misinterpreted, but that's not judging either. I was thinking that no cat is going to have 20 badly infected, ingrown toenails, and I was giving examples of reasons cats do get de-clawed. Anyway, thank you for giving some examples that make sense. I can't believe that I've felt the need to defend myself - it's rather silly. I really enjoy this forum, and I'm happy to be here and participate. I look forward to seeing you and your highly defended buddies in future posts. Just remember that I'm not the enemy. I'm a nice, friendly and open animal adoring addition to the site.

Progunr, that is too funny! I wonder if I could get that show on my online satellite radio? Yes it is funny how one simple question can lead to an ocean of confusion! ;)

Actually, now that I've seen just how many things you have had to say about me, not one part of which is justifiable, I'm beginning to think that you're just a little too interested in stirring the poop for no reason. You've actually used a whole page up with this nonsense. I'm beginning to take some offense to it, to be totally frank. Why don't you try focusing on the subject this thread was meant to discuss rather than putting jabbing little attacks where they don't belong? I know one thing for sure - I didn't and don't deserve being talked about in the way you've done. This is supposed to be a place of learning, not sophomorism.

(actually, you must have gotten to my post before I got the chance to edit the rest of my response, which was literally just seconds after it went up. I didn't intend for it to go out unfinished. i always read the preceding posts, thank you kindly. Just the same, in asking for information, a fair response easily includes a moral stand on this particular issue, which is exactly what I had written in the part you quoted.)

Just out of curiosity, what exactly would you consider to be a medical reason for declawing a cat? End-of-your-fingers-cancer? or a really expensive new couch and a persian rug...


The bolded parts are what I had a problem with. I wasn't mean in my post, I never once said you weren't a nice person or that you didn't have a right to express your point of view, you do, but reiterating what others have already said isn't productive or helpful, I am also guilty of doing it, but to insult Starby when she called you on it wasn't okay.

My main reason to post was to let you know what kind of people you are dealing with, and insinuating that Starby would declaw a cat because of a new couch or a persian rug was insulting. Sorry if you took it the wrong way, I do apologize, I certainly never meant to imply that you weren't a nice person. I was letting you know who we are and what we stand for, you'll figure that out the longer you are on this site, and I welcome your opinion, as I welcome everyone else's opinion. I may not always agree, I'm not always agreed with either.

Anyway, let's let it go, I never meant for this to turn in to a fight. Let's just drop it, obviously I misread your post and you misread mine, done, okay?

I look forward to seeing you on other threads, no hard feelings on my part.

hold your horses, my friend! i don't know how thoroughly you read my posts, but not one part of anything i wrote went into judging anyone or saying anything personal. i shared my feelings on the subject of de-barking and de-clawing. while there were in fact other people that agreed with position, my post included two personal stories and unique ways of expressing why i hold my opinion. certainly i can't be expected to only say with whom i agree or disagree, right? :) plus, how many times do i have to write that i read the previous posts? i'm not really sure why you decided that i didn't. i contributed because i wanted to be helpful and informative, just like everyone else here. i was also very clear in being supportive of and nice to CM. i even said that i would be asking exactly the same thing if i were her. i'm sure you wrote what you wrote with the best intentions, but if ill be totally honest and tell you that i'm slightly confused as to why you have dedicated your entire post to telling me what you think i did wrong, when i didn't actually do the things you said i did. i don't want this to drag on - actually, i think that we are coming from the same place, and we are all advocates to the proper care of dogs (and all animals for that matter). :) granted, you don't know me anymore than i know you, but i can promise you that i don't have a single crumb of angst or personal opposition towards anyone. i'm a very friendly, open person. when i asked starbuck what she meant by de-clawing for medical reasons, i was asking because i really wanted to know what those might be. perhaps my method of friendly, gentle jostling could have been misinterpreted, but that's not judging either. i was thinking that no cat is going to have 20 badly infected, ingrown toenails, and i was giving examples of reasons why cats do get de-clawed. anyway, thank you for giving some examples that make sense. i can't believe that i've felt the need to defend myself - it's rather silly. i really enjoy this forum, and i'm happy to be here and participate. i look forward to seeing you and your highly defended buddies in future posts. just remember that i'm not the enemy. i'm a nice, friendly and open animal adoring addition to the site.

Things can be subject to misinterpretation. It really did sound as if you were being insulting towards me, and that is why my friends jumped in. If anything was misinterpreted in anything you said, I appologize.

I also am a very kind and fair person. I only commented on your post to kindly point out to read the other posts. The reason I thought you didn't read the other posts was because you thought that debarking was still an option for CM. If I would have known that it was going to start this, I wouldn't have bothered to comment.

I only wrote it because I have been on this site for quite sometime, and I do run across new members on a daily basis, who don't read the date of the post, they don't read the question thouroughly, they don't read previous posts, etc. I was only trying to help you out.

Just one more thing, and this is not meant in a harsh tone either, please try and use punctuation, spaces, and paragraphs. It does make it much easier for us to read.

WOW!

Hey, when I said we need to put an end to the mushy mushy stuff, this is not what I meant!

"Can't we all just get along"?

It is easy to misinterpret things when you can't see a face, or hear a tone of voice.

As we answer, we are actually "speaking" our posts, in our heads.

What we don't realize, is that no one else can "hear" how we "intend" for the words to sound. Here, they are nothing more than black letters on a white background, there is no way to inject the "color" that we may intend for those words to have.

I think you have all settled this one, just wanted to say, maybe the mushy mushy isn't so bad after all.

actually, now that i've seen just how many things you have had to say about me, not one part of which is justifiable, i'm beginning to think that you're just a little too interested in stirring the poop for no reason. you've actually used a whole page up with this nonsense. i'm beginning to take some offense to it, to be totally frank. why don't you try focusing on the subject this thread was meant to discuss rather than putting jabbing little attacks where they don't belong? i know one thing for sure - i didn't and don't deserve being talked about in the way you've done. this is supposed to be a place of learning, not sophomorism.


I wasn't actually talking about you, although reading back I can see how it might be interpreted that way, once again I do apologize if you took anything I said as an insult to you personally.

I do at times stir the poop, I will admit to that, but I haven't done it on this thread, at least not intentionally. CM and Starby are good friends, I've know them for quite some time, not in person, but on this site.

The reason that we did ask you to read all previous posts was because it didn't sound like you had. Also, it's a good idea to check the date on posts, this one was pretty much considered done, it was a bit surprising to see that someone posted again. CM has made her decision, it's a done deal, and to dredge it all up again wasn't necessary.

Should I have stuck up for Starby, I believe yes, that's what friends do. Anyway, I do apologize if it sounded like I was talking badly about you, not my intention. Having said that, please PM me if you have anything to add, let's not use this thread as a place to argue with each other.

Thank you.

La-la-la-la-la-la... I agree... "Can't we all just get alonggggggggg??"

People understand eachother's points of view and opinions... and mine.

And heck no, I didn't think one question would stir up such a ruckus. Although I should have being as its very controversial. I was prepared to defend myself assuming that other people would assume that it was something I had already planned to do or had already done.

I really would like if a mod or admin came in here and closed this post...

As the OP you can request that CM, although I don't know how to go about it, maybe just email Rick J and request it be closed.

Really? Darn, there are so many things that I don't know...

Really? Darn, there are so many things that I don't know....


Learn something new every day, and when you figure it out tell me. ;)

Maybe this will help:
http://i32.tinypic.com/34pz2ja.jpgSusan loves you (and her voice). She says, "Stop the arguing and start the cuddling!!"

Learn something new every day, and when you figure it out tell me. ;)

LOL... will do...

I'm out, enough for today. Linnnealand, don't get to upset with us, I happen to know we are all good people, really we are. ;) We do get heated when it comes to dogs and other animals, as you do as well. Remember, it's opinion, only that, so don't let it upset you too much.

Have a great day everyone, give a animal a hug, it will make you feel GREAT!

Be back later, hopefully this thread will be closed by then. Hint, hint CM. By the way Susan, you are tooo cute, are those nails fake? ;)

Hecks no, they're just painted... sometimes I get bored when she's sleeping ;)

BTW, I asked RickJ to close it..

Have you ever heard of citronella anti-bark collars? They sense the vibration of the dog's bark, then spray a small burst of citronella. The hiss of the spray and the novel smell breaks the dog's concentration. It might be enough to deter the barking on its own, or at least give you a chance to grab the dog's attention and give her an alternate command. It's hard to do two things at once.
I would look at debarking as an absolute last resort. It's sort of like declawing cats--I'm very much opposed to it except in extreme cases when the only other option is euthanasia or re-homing the animal. (have had very bad experiences adopting out animals to what I thought were "good homes"). It's a very controversial subject, those are just my thoughts on the matter.

Please read the posting and the whole thread before posting in it.

Have you ever heard of citronella anti-bark collars? They sense the vibration of the dog's bark, then spray a small burst of citronella. The hiss of the spray and the novel smell breaks the dog's concentration. It might be enough to deter the barking on its own, or at least give you a chance to grab the dog's attention and give her an alternate command. It's hard to do two things at once.
I would look at debarking as an absolute last resort. It's sort of like declawing cats--I'm very much opposed to it except in extreme cases when the only other option is euthanasia or re-homing the animal. (have had very bad experiences adopting out animals to what I thought were "good homes"). Its a very controversial subject, those are just my thoughts on the matter.


Wow, really, that's a totally new idea. That was sarcasm.

Jeesh, really people, read all the post before responding, this is getting ridiculous. :(

I've said it at least three times in this thread alone... seems that it should be common sense...

I've asked RickJ to close this thread, so hopefully once he gets the email he will..

I hope it's soon because this is nuts. How hard is it to read the entire thread? I know that sometimes the thread is too long, but honestly, if you just read the last few posts that would have been enough. Humph, I'm going to go bang my head against a wall. Sorry for the sarcasm, couldn't help myself.

That's why I don't usually respond in threads longer than 3 pages unless its something that I am interested in or its in my section... NO ONE ever has three page threads in the vision section, so I'm safe there!

Yup, who would have thought that this thread would get so many responses, especially once you said you were just looking for info and were going to find another alternative. We better stop, now we're being bad. ;)

I don't care... my thread... I do what I want... lol... Can you imagine me getting into trouble all the time for that attitude?

Honey, my attitude get's me it sh#t all the time.:) Hey, fyi, I have a new thread, I'll post the link so you can join in. :)

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/lounge/altys-daycare-222421.html

Yes, there were several posts of arguments and 9 pages of suggestions... including both of the ones that you made...

What can you tell me about de-barking a dog? Can it be reversed?
Wow I didn't know you could de-bark a dog. But as much as you love her I think you are being selfish to want to do that to her. I LOVE my dog and would do anything for her but I would find her another loving home before I would EVER do anything like that. I don't know a lot about the procedure but it just seems wrong to me. Can't you just train her not to bark?

Wow I didn't know you could de-bark a dog. But as much as you love her I think you are being selfish to want to do that to her. I LOVE my dog and would do anything for her but I would find her another loving home b4 I would EVER do anything like that. I don't know a lot about the procedure but it just seems wrong to me. Can't you just train her not to bark?

For anyone else wishing to post, please read the entire thread, or even just the last two pages, that should clear things up. Please, just read it, realize that this thread is CLOSED, it just hasn't been made official yet. Thank you.

Okay, for the last time, and for the newbies! Please, please! When answering questions on someone's thread, please read through the other posts! Otherwise, you haven't gotten all of the info! We are not here to reiterate a point, and if you would have skimmed through, you would know that this is not the OP's position on this issue, and this thread is going to be shut down at this point. Once again, please read before you post!!

And on that note, really, going to bed. Goodnight all, hope this thread is closed tomorrow. Arrrrr. ;)

Hey guess what, it isn't closed... so how about using citronella collars? *runs out door laughing* altys going to kill me when she sees me in the daycare...