I just installed a chandelier light fixture to a pre-existing junction box in my condo. When I flip the electricity back on for the room however, the fixture lights up in spite of the light switch being in the OFF position. When I flip the light switch to ON, the breaker trips.

Is the problem I'm having at the switch, or with the wiring of the chandelier?

Thanks!

Turk,

Sounds like you reversed the wires in the ceiling.

When you removed the old fixture, do you remember what wires were up there and how you reconnected them?

There was just a plate covering the jbox. I'm the first tenant in the unit, and the builders left the living room lighting option open.

Unfortunately for me, the chandelier came with shoddy instructions. Instead of black and white wires it had two clear insulated wires, one ribbed and one smooth.

If its as simple as reversing the wires I'll give that a shot.

There was just a plate covering the jbox. I'm the first tenant in the unit, and the builders left the living room lighting option open.

Unfortunately for me, the chandelier came with shoddy instructions. Instead of black and white wires it had two clear insulated wires, one ribbed and one smooth.

If its as simple as reversing the wires I'll give that a shot.

The ribbed wire is the nuetral/white wire. Smooth is the blk/hott. If that will help you out any. Also, on your switch check wiring there. Make sure its all connected tight etc.. Is this a SINGLE pole switch for the fan? Should have both blacks on one side, going to those 2 screws and the whites nutted together and green to the grnd screw. Hope this helps

Mike

I originally had the ribbed nutted with the white and smooth w/ the black when I posted this question. When I flipped them the same problem occurred. The light would come on with the switch in the off position.

It is indeed a single pole switch and I'll check to see if all the connections are good there.

Check the switch and post back.

One more question, do you know if this switch is at the end of a run?(switch loop) Are there 2 wires coming into the box or just one. (romax)

The pic (A) shows you the corect way. Here the YELLOW is ground. It will pigtail over to the gnd screw on the switch and the gnd screw in the box if you have a metal box. Whites are nutted as one and the hots to the 2 screws.

If its only 1 wire coming in the box,( Pic B) then both are hott. Might out of put a piece blk tape around the white to show it is hot. IF IF IF you have only 1 wire coming into the box. Gnd will hook up same way, pigtailed to the green screw on switch.

Hope this helps

Mike

The ribbed wire is the nuetral/white wire. Smooth is the blk/hott. If that will help you out any. Also, on your switch check wiring there. Make sure its all connected tight etc.. Is this a SINGLE pole switch for the fan? Should have both blacks on one side, going to those 2 screws and the whites nutted together and green to the grnd screw. Hope this helps

Mike

There are actually 3 switches next to one another housed in one box. One controls the kitchen light, which works just fine, the other controls one of the sockets in the living room, also working fine. The 3rd switch is the one controlling the chandelier. All 3 switches were wired the same, a black wire to the bottom screw (off position), a yellow wire to the top screw (on), and behind the 3 switches were two whites nutted and the green to a ground.

When I leave the switch in an OFF position and flip the breaker, the light is on. Flipping the switch to an ON position from here trips the breaker.

When I leave the switch in an ON position, and flip the breaker, the light remains off, and the breaker doesn't trip.

Check the switch and post back.

One more question, do you know if this switch is at the end of a run?(switch loop) Are there 2 wires coming into the box or just one. (romax)

The pic (A) shows you the corect way. Here the YELLOW is ground. It will pigtail over to the gnd screw on the switch and the gnd screw in the box if you have a metal box. Whites are nutted as one and the hots to the 2 screws.

If its only 1 wire coming in the box,( Pic B) then both are hott. Might outta put a piece blk tape around the white to show it is hot. IF IF IF you have only 1 wire coming into the box. Gnd will hook up same way, pigtailed to the green screw on switch.

Hope this helps

Mike

There are two wires coming into the box. Pic A is what I'm seeing in the box, except 3 times the switches :)

So you have 3 switches problaby controlled by the same hot wire. How many wires are connected to your problem switch?>

You say there are only 2 whites feeding into the box?

so you have 3 switches problaby controlled by the same hot wire. How many wires are connected to your problem switch?>

You say there are only 2 whites feeding into the box?


I photoshopped your diagram to show what I see in my box.

http://qlink.queensu.ca/~2myc1/elec.png

The two whites coming from the top are nutted to the bottom white.

There is an "orange" wire coming down from the top left hole, and two of the same down the top middle.

The grounds are all screwed in to the plate. And from what I can see, there are a total of 6 black wires, all nutted, coming from the two top holes, the bottom hole, and attaching to the three switches.

Yeah I photo shopped the first one as well lol. Ask a weird question, when this problem occurs, is the switch IN the box or OUT. Have you tried it both ways?

Looks like you have it wired correctly from what I can see. You say there are no wires exposed and everything is tight. So that's not the issue.

Unless the switch itself is gone bad. If you have a meter you can check across the 2 screws for Cont. POWER Off course.

The problem occurs with the switch both in and out.

There definitely isn't any issue with the condition of the wiring. If the switch itself is faulty I suppose I should just undo the wiring for the chandelier so that at least the kitchen and living room lights will work w/o having to worry about the problem switch tripping the breaker.

Is it possible that there is a problem with the fixture at all?

Yeah take the load OFF the switch and try it ? See if it trips. If it still does it then it probably is not the light.

Just undo the light wiring and see what happens. Like you said then at least you will have power where you need it

There is a new development!

What I had originally thought to be the ground wire from the ceiling is actually not a ground. The ground is already attached to the metal frame that the bracket is screwed into.

When this orange wire is disconnected, turning on the electricity turns the chandelier on, and the light switch doesn't do anything at all. It doesn't trip the breaker in the ON position (it did before when I assumed it was the ground). This is the same type of wire that is attached to the top screw of the "problem switch".

I am thoroughly confused now. The black wire from the junction box is still connected to the smooth wire from the chandelier. The white wire is still connected to the ribbed wire. What am I supposed to do with this orange wire now that seemingly controls whether this light goes on or off..

Yeah, What color wires on the light is the ribbed and smooth wire connected too? Is it orange etc. or is it blk white?

Ribbed is on white, Smooth is on black, and I have nothing left to connect to the seemingly important orange :\

The black and white wires are both two twisted copper wires. The orange is a single copper wire.

So coming out of the light is blk and white, yet in the switch box there is not a blk and white is this correct? Rather that orange wire

Out of the light is black, white and orange, but currently only the black and white are connected to the chandelier's 2 wires. In the switch box, there is a black in the bottom screw of the switch, an orange in the top screw, and all the whites are nutted together

OK gotcha. What was this switch used of for before you installed the new lights? Orange has got me confused somewhat... lol.

The switch has always been dedicated to this jbox. It's a new condo so there was just a canopy covering the hole in the ceiling before I connected the new lights.

Yeah I haven't seen anything like it at all in any of the guides I've read. Without it being attached to anything, current is always running and keeping the lights lit, regardless of the position of the switch.

OK so it has never had a switch in this box right? IF so, try this, the blk wire at the switch box is on the bottom and the orange is on the top...

This should be hot feed to your light. Have you connected the orange wire at the light to the smooth wire? So you will have orange to smooth, white to ribbed... and the blk and orange at the switch the way it is now...

Maybe for some reason the blk and ornage are hot?> don't know unless you have a meter to check that...

I'm going to check if orange is hot

One more thing. The blk wire from the light is going where? Is it wire nutted with all the other blk wires? It shouldn't be. Actaully a blk should feed the bottom switch screw, another blk coming off the top screw which feeds to the switch for power. Im thinking maybe the orange wire is taking the place of the blk wire. Somehow

Orange is indeed hot!

Orange -> smooth, White -> ribbed

And black is just capped because lord knows what the extra black in that jbox is really for...

Yeah where was the exrea blk in your box going too?? Was it capped with all the other blk hot wires?

Might outa take sum blk tape and run it around the ends of the orange to show that it is hott wire on both ends for future reference

Does light work now?

one more thing. the blk wire from the light is going where? is it wire nutted with all the other blk wires? it shouldnt be. actaully a blk should feed the bottom switch screw, another blk coming off the top screw which feeds to the switch for power. Im thinking maybe the orange wire is taking the place of the blk wire. somehow

The black is hot too, but it isn't the wire that is connected to the ON part of the switch. That's what the orange wire is, both in the switch box and at the light.

From the looks of it, the orange is taking the place of the black at the top screw feeding the switch for power.

I'm puzzled as to why there are two sets of hot wires at the light though.

I don't know either. Was hoping one of the gurus would chime in on this...

So, the bottom screw has a hot blk going to it now? On the switch?
We only need to get 1 hot on that switch and then the other screw will go up to the light to carry the power so that switch will work

Yeah, the bottom screw on the switch has a hot black going into it.

On the fixture it's the orange wire that's hot and controlled by the switch.

Everything's peachy now ;)

Thanks for the help! It feels good to have a better understanding of what's going on in there.

Yeah as we went along I got a better understanding of what u had. The damn orange threw me off. Must have used that 3 conducter wire just to confuse us.

Usually it's a blk hot to bottom screw, a blk in the top one to feed the light etc. then nutt the whites and grounds and BAM u have a switch

Glad its all good now. Whewwwwwwww :eek: :eek: :eek:

Yeah, the bottom screw on the switch has a hot black going into it.

On the fixture it's the orange wire that's hot and controlled by the switch.

Everything's peachy now ;)

Thanks for the help! It feels good to have a better understanding of what's going on in there.


Again might out of slap a few turns of l black tape on orange wire to show it is hott... On both ends

Yeah definitely.

Thanks again for sticking it out mate, much appreciated :D

NP Im at work anyway. I had the time ahahaha Have a good one!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D