Hi,
I am planning to finish my roughed in basement bathroom and I am trying to understand the plumbing. The house was constructed 5 years ago and is in Atlanta, Georgia. I need some help. Here is setup I have(picture attached.) The ejector pump basin (#6) is filled with water above the level where waste comes in. This had a cap which was bolted and sealed and I am assuming that is the reason why the water is still standing. It seems to be made of some sort of poly material. Pipe #1 is in the wall and I guess this is for the sink and is filled with water. Toilet (#2) is also filled with water. I am assuming #3 is for the bathtub but is very near to the wall (less than a foot) and is also filled with water. There are 2 pipes(#4 and #5) sticking out of the ceiling. One is 2"and the other is a bit smaller. I checked by tapping these pipes in the attic while someone was listening to the sound in the pipes below and they are indeed venting through the attic. I see no other pipes coming out of the concrete slab specifically for venting. Do I have to use pipe #1(sink) as a wet vent? How should the plumbing for this look like. A plumber I called insists that he will have to drill the floor and rerun the vent to the roof and gave a big estimate. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Sam.

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A plumber I called insists that he will have to drill the floor and rerun the vent to the roof and gave a big estimate. Any help is greatly appreciated. Hey Sam, Your plumber must be new to the trade or else he needs you to finance his Aruba Vacation. Let me tell you how a typical basement roughs in. Toilet connects to sewer main . Lavatory connects to toilet drain and runs a vent off the top the stubout tee out the roof or revents back into a dry vent in the attic.. The toilet wet vents through the lavatory vent and the tub/shower connects to the lavatory drain and is wet vented by it. This is a normal rough in and is acceptable both by local and state codes and also The Standard Plumbing Code Book in 90 percent of the country. The vent off the lavatory may be run out the roof or revented back into a dry vent in the attic or if you're reventing back into a fixtures dry vent you must make your connection at least 6 inches over that fixtures flood rim. If you don't have a square hole, (tub dap-out) he roughed in for a shower. Tubs rough in about 15 1/2" from the side wall to center and 1 1/2" to ctr. Off the front plate. If that pipe's cemented over, (try tapping the cememt with a hammer to see if the dapout's there under a skim of cement) he left you with a shower rough in. You only need one vent for the entire group unless local codes saydifferant. If you have a sealed ejector pit you will need to run a dedicated vent from the pit through the roof. This "pit vent" can't be tied back to the house vent it MUST remain separate. Good luck. Tom

Hi Tom,
Thanks a lot for your reply. That helps a lot. I have a few more questions. Here is what I found out.

1) The pipe on the right (#3) is about 2.5"(centered) from an unfinished framing wall and about 19" from an unfinished concrete wall. So from your e-mail this seems like a stub out for a bathtub. However I could not find anything sounding different when I tried to tap the concrete. This pipe is a little less than 2" on the outside diameter. So I guess this would be a 1.5" pipe. If I put in a shower(I can do without a tub) will I not need the dapout? IF so if there is indeed a dapout under there somewhere can I ignore it.

2) As far as venting is concerned it looks like I am good to go. #5(in the picture) is about the same size as #1 and #4 is the same size as about a couple of pipes sticking out of #6(These pipes are not connecting to anything. They are just covering the holes in the cap.) How do I find out if #4 is not connected to anything else? I would think not because they are capped off and are hanging down into the basement from the ceiling and go all the way to the attic.

Once again thanks for your help.

Sam.

Hey SAM:

If you want that tub drain to act as a shower drain... it won't be all that easy. Not only does a shower require a 2" pipe and trap but also requires a completely different rough in... most shower drains are located at the center of the shower base.

You might be able to use a prefabricated shower base such as in my picture below (swanstone... about $300.00). It is a shower base that fits the same space a tub fits (although you still have issues with drain alignment (and size)... but with a little concrete removal, may make this work pretty easy (these need to be set in mortar base).

Seems to me that one of those 2" vents is for the ejector pump. The other vent is the vent for the bathroom. As Tom explained, only need 1-2" vent for entire bathroom if plumbed correctly.

Tell us... that sink drain... is it 2" coming out of the floor?? If it is, should just need to connect that pipe full size 2" to the 2" vent in your pic.

The waste line from the ejector needs to connect into the main drain in specific way... let us know if have questions on that

Let us know what you think... MARK

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Hi Sam,

If I put in a shower(I can do without a tub) will I not need the dapout? IF so if there is indeed a dapout under there somewhere can I ignore it.
While tubs require a dap-out because the tub waste connects below the floor line showers do not need a dap-out.

2) As far as venting is concerned it looks like I am good to go. #5(in the picture) is about the same size as #1 and #4 is the same size as about a couple of pipes sticking out of #6(These pipes are not connecting to anything. They are just covering the holes in the cap.) How do I find out if #4 is not connected to anything else? I would think not because they are capped off and are hanging down into the basement from the ceiling and go all the way to the attic. You're correct, IF the pipes are capped then nothing's tied to them. Consider yourself very lucky. Most plumbers, when they leave a basement rough in simply leave the lavatory vent stubbed up a few feet and let the homeowner hassle running the vents up to the roof. Regards, Tom

Tom and Mark. Thank you very much for your help. Mark to your question yes the stub for the sink is a 2" stub and it needs to be vented out.

1) So all that is remaining is the problem with the bathtub. I guess I will have to go with the bathtub. However I do not have a dap-out. So do I have no choice but to drill and see if there is a dap out. If there is no dap-out underneath the floor then where do I go from there. Can I put a bathtub without a dap-out.

2) Mark, what do I need to be careful about when connecting the ejector waste pipe to the main line? It has to go to the top of the main line and come down is it not?

Thanks
Sam.

Hey Sam:

First... you don't have to go with a tub... don't forget that you can use that premolded shower floor I showed you in my last post... then install cement backerboard, tile walls and then install a shower door (or not)... may be nice to add spray shower or an additional shower valve... ;) ;) if you like.

Anyway, tub or premolded shower floor, you will need to open the concrete up around the pipe in ground... if no boxout in floor, cement should still be pretty thin around the pipe. If it is not thin and won't just break out by smacking it with a hammer, may need to rent a small chipping hammer and open up the concrete around the drain pipe... open up a good 12" x 12" box... then dig down abit to expose the pipe so you can offset the pipe to line up to either the tub (which has a tub waste and overflow assembly (see pic.) you will need to align the pipe too), or the shower (which needs to be increased to 2" pipe and then offset to line up with the shower drain).

The ejector pump requires that a 3/16" weep hole be drilled in the discharge pipe UNDER THE COVER (so if pump installed, you need to reach in and confirm 3/16" hole is in pipe and if not...you need to drill it in (about 10" above pump, but still well under the cover).

Then need to install a 2" check valve just above the ejector lid, then you should install a 2" shutoff (1/4 turn type) about 2 feet above the check valve... you will appreciate that shutoff if you ever need to work on the pump (and you will! ) as it prevents any sewer from above shutoff from having to be drained back awkwardly later.. *yuck*.

Then you want to come up higher than the main drain and then drop down into the main using a WYE fitting off the main and a dandy style CLEANOUT for access/clearing of drain line in the future (see pic.).

If need more info. On ejector piping.. check out: Zoeller Corporation (http://www.zoeller.com)

Let us know if/when you need more info... glad to help... MARK

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Hi,
Thanks again for your help. From your posts and checking out some books here is what I could gather. I am attaching a picture below. It seems that the reason we need a dap-out is because the waste and overflow assembly will be below the tub and will be below the floor level. However if I raise the tub this should not be an issue isn't it? There already seems to be a trap in the pipe coming out of the floor. What are the code requirements regarding this? I keep wondering how it is done on the upper floors? Once again thanks for you help.

Sam.

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Hey Sam,
What you're referring to is platforming the tub. This will be acceptable if local codes permit

I keep wondering how it is done on the upper floors?
Unless the floor's cement all we do is cut in a dap-out through the floor and subfloor. Is that what you're asking?
Regards, Tom

Hi,
I called to code enforcement office and they said they were following IPC 2005 with GA amendments. He also said that if was going to build up the floor below the tub (platform tub) they had no restrictions against that as long as it meets the structural requirements. So I guess I will just elevate the tub a little bit. Any suggestions on this? Any gotcha's that I need look out for.


Thanks
Sam.

Sam... way more work and money to build that platform than to just dig up a little concrete and attach a couple 45s to a desanco fitting (adapts the pvc to the tub waste drain assembly).

Is there access behind the tub waste..or is that the concrete foundation wall in your drawing.. You need access if planning to install on floor... and still need access through the side to get to the tub waste drain assembly even if building a platform... so hopefully drain is not on the foundation wall.

Like Tom said, on upper floors we have the joist bay itself to work on the tub drain and no sheetrock/plaster in place so easy to work on the tub waste drain assembly.

I guess if you can make tub waste drain accessible... up to you how you do it... but I'm telling you it is less work to just chop open the floor abit and you won't have to step up to the tub!

If no access then you may need to go to a tub with a removable apron (pre made or can build tile apron) or access panel (as in 5' whirlpool... ;) )

Let us know what you think... answer my questions if I made sense! Mark

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Mark,
On the waste side of the bathtub there is a framed wall holding up the stairs(under the stairs). I am planning to provide access to that area from the other side. On the side of the tub is a concrete foundation wall. I was just worried about bursting the pipes but I guess it should not be difficult to chip the concrete. So I will have to drill around the pipe then? 1 foot in front and some behind? Also one more question. Can I add another sink(which is outside the bathroom) to drain out through the bathroom sink's pipe? Will the venting be sufficient?

Thanks
Sam.

Hey Sam:

What are you planning to drain down the additional sink.. Is it to be used as a laundry tub or discharge for washing machine... or is it just a utility sink.. If discharge for washer then in terms of wet vent and codes this isn't allowed... but if only a utility sink then as unconventional as this is, you should be OK to add sink on to lav. Drain as long as do not exceeed 10 inches between fitting for lav. Waste and fitting for utility sink waste.

In terms of the tub waste... need to break the concrete up around the pipe first (about 1 foot square, max... tight to where the shower valve wall will be framed in), then gently break the concrete from around the pipe using a hammer and chisel. Should not break pipe if you start a hole and then collapse concrete away from the pipe to start and then work toward the pipe.. then finally use hammer and chisel to break concrete from around pipe.

A typical tub WITH THE TUB WASTE AND OVERFLOW ASSEMBLY INSTALLED (see pic. Below) has the center of the drain pipe at 1.5" off rough shower valve wall and 14.5" off the rough back wall to center of pipe. This measure will depend on your tub, of course, but that should give you a good idea of where you are headed.

Let me know what you think... MARK

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Mark,
Once again thanks for the excellent advice. I still have one follow up question. The sink I was mentioning about is a utility sink for a wet bar. However there is no stub for this sink. So I was thinking of draining it into the bathroom sink. The sink however is about 20 feet away. I could make it about 8 feet away and is around a bend. I could not understand the 10 in. restriction you mentioned. Could you please explain further?

Thanks
Sam.

Hey Sam:

Thanks for positive words... ;)

Hey... you said sink was for a wet bar... even if between 8 and 20 feet, still not within code to hook this up without an additional vent being connected to wet bar drain (or an AAV (air admittance valve... see pics.)... may or may not be legal in your area). Of course, need a trap for sink, too.

The 10 inch thing ... (God!! People are gonna love that... ;) )

I just wanted to have you set the new wet bar drain so it did not enter back to back with the bathroom sink drain... Just install separate fittings for each drain is all!

Get back with thoughts... MARK

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Mark,
Thanks once again for your advice. Assuming that the local codes allow an air admittance valve will the setup in the picture here work? Can the wet bar drain go below the bathroom sink drain.

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Thanks

That is how I would do it Sam. Looks good. Keep in touch.