I need to know at what age does the court will consider the opinion or the testimony of a child to pick/choose which parent the child wants to live with.

And what do I need to do to change judges.

I have a four (4)yr old daughter who does not want to live with the mother. Our daughter cries every time the mother picks her. She refuses to go with her. The child has told her mother on several occasions she does not want to live with her. And every time I talk to our daughter on the phone, the first thing she wants to know is when can I pick her up!

I have a solid case againts the mother, but the judge refused to see any of the evidence!!
My Final Hearing lasted only 15-20 minutes!!

I filed for a re-hearing motion... the samejudge deniedthe motion.
There wasno court reporter present, therefore I was told My Appeal would just fall on deaf ears.

The mother of our child has violated the court order on several occasions, where I took her back to court, and she did not even get a slap in the hand on two (2) separate hearings.

I have the right via court order to speak with our child every day. It's been a week now since I know the whereabouts of our daughter. The mother refuses to return any of the phone calls.

HELP!!

What does your attorney have to say about this matter? Have you retained an attorney or have you been trying to do this all by yourself? You could have had a court reporter present at the hearing but you would have had to pay for the reporter and transcript. At any hearing you can always hire your own court reporter to record the hearing.

Time to go back to court to see about holding the mother in contempt for not allow you contact. As for as evidence, is it in a form and manner that court accepts, it can not be hearsay evidence.

But some judges just rule for the mother in most cases no matter what, I tell the story here about the mother that was sleeping with men for money, left the kids 8 and under alone while she went out to bars, would bring the various men home to sleep with them for money while kids in other room. All of this was proved with statements from the men and she even acknowledged it was true in court document. There were photos of the inside of their trailer showing trash everywhere and beer bottles and cig butts everywhere.

Father was a corp exectivie with a 6 figure income, brick home and more.

He lost each custody hearing every time over several years, judge would not take the children away from mother, judge even raised the child support , judge said, if she had more money she would not have to sleep with men.

So at times all of the best evidence will not help a bit.
And often you are stuck with the same judge throughout it all, actually many areas only have one judge that hears these cases.

So your best luck, hire the best, most dirty fighting lawyer you can afford and file and file and file.

OK.. Im going to throw out a few more ideas. 1) you could ask the courts for a custody hearing and at that time ask for a parental evaluation. That is much much more extensive then anything that can be done in a court room. 2) If you do get her into court for violating a court order and contempt make sure she shows up by always requesting a bench warrant to be served with the summons. 3) If your doing this yourself then make sure you follow all the court rules for evidence so it may be presented. You can always request a trial instead of a hearing so you get more time to sort things out.

What does your attorney have to say about this matter? Have you retained an attorney or have you been trying to do this all by yourself? You could have had a court reporter present at the hearing but you would have had to pay for the reporter and transcript. At any hearing you can always hire your own court reporter to record the hearing.


Thanks for your reply. We both were Pro se until the Final Hearing. Prior to that
I had an attorney who really did not do anything for me.

I know, but it was too late for a court reporter.

Time to go back to court to see about holding the mother in contempt for not allow you contact. As for as evidence, is it in a form and manner that court accepts, it can not be hearsay evidence.

But some judges just rule for the mother in most cases no matter what, I tell the story here about the mother that was sleeping with men for money, left the kids 8 and under alone while she went out to bars, would bring the various men home to sleep with them for money while kids in other room. All of this was proved with statements from the men and she even acknowledged it was true in court document. There were photos of the inside of thier trailer showing trash everywhere and beer bottles and cig butts everywhere.

Father was a corp exectivie with a 6 figure income, brick home and more.

he lost each custody hearing each and every time over several years, judge would not take the children away from mother, judge even raised the child support , judge said, if she had more money she would not have to sleep with men.

So at times all of the best evidence will not help a bit.
And often you are stuck with the same judge thoughout it all, actually many areas only have one judge that hears these cases.

So your best luck, hire the best, most dirty fighting lawyer you can afford and file and file and file.


WOW... That's pretty messed up. It's hard to say if the mother had that habit in the past. Still does not justify for the acts.

ok .. Im going to throw out a few more ideas. 1) you could ask the courts for a custody hearing and at that time ask for a parental evaluation. That is much much more extensive then anything that can be done in a court room. 2) If you do get her into court for violating a court order and contempt make sure she shows up by always requesting a bench warrent to be served with the summons. 3) If your doing this yourself then make sure you follow all the court rules for evidence so it may be presented. You can always request a trial instead of a hearing so you get more time to sort things out.


That's the Million dollar question that I need to find out. Is it too late for a Parental
Evaluation?

One thing she does show up to the hearings.

We already went to trial (12-20-08)
I had half of day to present my case, judge only gave me 15 minutes top during the trial!

That's the Million dollar question that I need to find out. Is it too late for a Parental
Evaluation?

One thing she does show up to the hearings.

We already went to trial (12-20-08)
I had half of day to present my case, judge only gave me 15 minutes top during the trial!!


Trust you mean 12/20/07 -

Anyway, the problem in my area (at least) with a 4 year old is that she is considered to be easily lead, whichever parent provides the best coloring books is the one she wants to live with, so what she has said or will say really doesn't count.

I know there are injustices in both directions - I saw a custody matter not too very long ago where the father was over 8 months in arrears with child support, the mother took a second job to help support herself and the child, the father took the mother to Court because the child spent more time with the grandmother (who was the child care person) than the mother... and the father won a change in custody. Go figure. I think maybe Judges sleep on the bench, don't hear the testimony and then go back to chambers, flip a coin and come back with a decision.

Anyway - I can't recall if you said you have the ability or grounds to appeal? At this point I would retain an Attorney (never represent yourself unless it's Small Claims) and see what he/she recommends and can accomplish.

Are you sure that the hearing wasn't tape recorded which some Courts are doing now?

There may be a wait time before you can file again, check with the courts. Here in Virginia its 6 months with a big change (with evidence of the change at the time of filing), 3 years if you "think things changed" If you take your ex back to court and the Judge says nothing has changed then you may have to pay for her attorney fees and all court costs. It may not work that way in your area, though, but I would make sure before filing.

I think 4 is to young for the Judge to talk to -- you may be able to hire an attorney for the child and they can "look into" what's best for the child and then they will file with the courts if they find its best for the child to change households. The attorney you hire will not be working for you though -- Its my understanding that the attorney will do what is best for the child and that may not be in your house.

If its nothing more than the child saying they want to see you, or be with you and you don't have pictures of bruises and cuts or Doctors reports that show something, this case would not make the Judge happy. All the Judge sees is that you want your child, your ex wants your child and both homes are basically the same; why move the child?

Remember that you filed papers with the court and the Judge looked at them before you talked, the Judge would have an idea of the case already. If you started by saying what the judge thought you were going to say, then yes, the judge would stop you and move on. If you got 15minutes to state your case then the Judge listened to you. Remember, If you couldn't change the Judge's mind in 15 minutes you weren't going to. Some judges are just like that. Here you can't change Judges; once you are assigned to the Judge your case stays with that Judge until the child is 18 and its no longer a family court matter. I would think that if your Judge was friends, lovers, related in some way then you could ask the court to change judges and reopen the case. If that's not the case I think your stuck with that Judge. Sorry.

There may be a wait time before you can file again, check with the courts. Here in Virginia its 6 months with a big change (with evidence of the change at the time of filing), 3 years if you "think things changed" If you take your ex back to court and the Judge says nothing has changed then you may have to pay for her attorney fees and all court costs. It may not work that way in your area, though, but I would make sure before filing.

I think 4 is to young for the Judge to talk to -- you may be able to hire an attorney for the child and they can "look into" whats best for the child and then they will file with the courts if they find its best for the child to change households. The attorney you hire will not be working for you though -- Its my understanding that the attorney will do what is best for the child and that may not be in your house.

If its nothing more than the child saying they want to see you, or be with you and you don't have pictures of bruises and cuts or Doctors reports that show something, this case would not make the Judge happy. All the Judge sees is that you want your child, your ex wants your child and both homes are basically the same; why move the child?

Remember that you filed papers with the court and the Judge looked at them before you talked, the Judge would have an idea of the case already. If you started out by saying what the judge thought you were going to say, then yes, the judge would stop you and move on. If you got 15minutes to state your case then the Judge listened to you. Remember, If you couldn't change the Judge's mind in 15 minutes you weren't going to. Some judges are just like that. Here you can't change Judges; once you are assigned to the Judge your case stays with that Judge until the child is 18 and its no longer a family court matter. I would think that if your Judge was friends, lovers, related in some way then you could ask the court to change judges and reopen the case. If thats not the case I think your stuck with that Judge. Sorry.

You have valid points. I know it's just a matter of time before our daughter grows older.
In all reality it was truly unfair case. And based on the few questions that the judge asked, I can tell you that she did not read the case.

I have met with lawyers since, and the few who have seen my files told me, If I was represented properly I would have won the case.

I guess What I need to know, if the mother keeps vioalting the court order, is it worth keep taking her back to court? I am going on seven (7) days now without hearing from our daughter. The Motion states I am allowed DAILY phone contact. I had the Police show up to her apartment, but there was no answer. Even though both cars were there. Her's and her husbands.

Trust you mean 12/20/07 -

Anyway, the problem in my area (at least) with a 4 year old is that she is considered to be easily lead, whichever parent provides the best coloring books is the one she wants to live with, so what she has said or will say really doesn't count.

I know there are injustices in both directions - I saw a custody matter not too very long ago where the father was over 8 months in arrears with child support, the mother took a second job to help support herself and the child, the father took the mother to Court because the child spent more time with the grandmother (who was the child care person) than the mother ... and the father won a change in custody. Go figure. I think maybe Judges sleep on the bench, don't hear the testimony and then go back to chambers, flip a coin and come back with a decision.

Anyway - I can't recall if you said you have the ability or grounds to appeal? At this point I would retain an Attorney (never represent yourself unless it's Small Claims) and see what he/she recommends and can accomplish.

Are you sure that the hearing wasn't tape recorded which some Courts are doing now?


Hi, Thanks for your quick reply.
Yes, sorry, the date was 12-20-07

And since it has passed the 30 days I can no longer appeal it.
And no, it was not recorded. During pre-trail and during the hearings, yes it was recorded.

I really got a bad deal. I have accumulated and kept all my receipts, including daycare expense, which is about $6,000 and during one of the Hearings the General Magistrate stated she would hold another hearing for credit of child support. Well, it went to trial and the Judge refuse to hear the motion since she stated it was already decised??

I was allowed half of day to present my case...
She only gave me 15 minutes... I was not allowed to show any evidence!!
There was evidence provided on my part during an emergency hearing.

There is so much to it...

And as we speak, she is in contempt for not allowing contact with our child.

You have valid points. I know it's just a matter of time before our daughter grows older.
In all reality it was truly unfair case. And based on the few questions that the judge asked, I can tell you that she did not read the case.

I have met with lawyers since, and the few who have seen my files told me, If I was represented properly I would have won the case.

I guess What I need to know, if the mother keeps vioalting the court order, is it worth keep taking her back to court? I am going on seven (7) days now without hearing from our daughter. The Motion states I am allowed DAILY phone contact. I had the Police show up to her apartment, but there was no answer. Even though both cars were there. her's and her husbands.


Speaking just for myself - if I didn't get to see my children and my "ex" violated Court Orders I would be back in Court immediately -

I don't see that you have anything to lose - you don't see the child now, what could get worse?

I am surprised that the Order allows daily phone contact with a child of that age as I have seen Orders stating that the phone calls on a daily basis are upsetting to the child, the child is unable to bond with the new step parent, the calls are intrusive.

Concerning custody/visitation - In many States the Court will appoint a legal guardian for the child if you have a strong enough argument concerning Orders being violated, the emotional wellbeing of the child and issues of that nature.

Speaking just for myself - if I didn't get to see my children and my "ex" violated Court Orders I would be back in Court immediately -

I don't see that you have anything to lose - you don't see the child now, what could get worse?

I am surprised that the Order allows daily phone contact with a child of that age as I have seen Orders stating that the phone calls on a daily basis are upsetting to the child, the child is unable to bond with the new step parent, the calls are intrusive.

Concerning custody/visitation - In many States the Court will appoint a legal guardian for the child if you have a strong enough argument concerning Orders being violated, the emotional wellbeing of the child and issues of that nature.

I guess that's where I need to know. You see our daughter has always been "Daddy's little Girl and the mother knows that. She does things purposely in order to try to break the bondage that our daughter has for me. My ex has two more younger children from her new marriage... you would figure that our daughter would want to spent more time with her small siblings... it is exactly the opposite. The mother tries to buy our duaghter's love with gifts and toys, etc... and still, our daughter refuses to live with her mother.

When I do get to talk to our daughter, she spents anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour with me on the phone.

When our child is with me and the mother calls, our daughter does not want to speak with her, and when she does is only a few minutes... and the majority of the time when the mother brings up the conversation that she is going to pick her up, our daughter tells her that she does not want to leave with her.

I'm going to interject some things here.

First, There is no age where a child can make a decision on what parent they want to be with. Until they reach 18 the court rules on what it considers the best interests of the child. In a few jurisdictions, judges are compelled to listen to the child's preferences, usually at least in their teens. But the ultimate decision is still the judges. At 4, forget it.

Second, has your daughter been examined by a competent psychologist? I can understand a judge not listening to testimony from the non custodial parent that the child wants to stay with them. But if you can show an opinion from a competnent medical professional, that may carry some weight.

Third, Yes, every time, the mother violates the court order, you resport it to the court and ask for enforcement.

Fourth, if your attorney wasn't working out, get a new one, but you really need an attorney to help navigate through the court system, maybe get you a new judge etc.

I'm going to interject some things here.

First, There is no age where a child can make a decision on what parent they want to be with. Until they reach 18 the court rules on what it considers the best interests of the child. In a few jurisdictions, judges are compelled to listen to the child's preferences, usually at least in their teens. But the ultimate decision is still the judges. At 4, forget it.

Second, has your daughter been examined by a competent psychologist? I can understand a judge not listening to testimony from the non custodial parent that the child wants to stay with them. But if you can show an opinion from a competnent medical professional, that may carry some weight.

Third, Yes, each and every time, the mother violates the court order, you resport it to the court and ask for enforcement.

Fourth, if your attorney wasn't working out, get a new one, but you really need an attorney to help navigate thru the court system, maybe get you a new judge etc.

Hi thanks for the reply. And yes, I believe the age of our daughter it's a huge factor at this point. The only thing that I can see is that as long as the mother keeps violating the court order, eventually the judge can reverse her order.

I guess that's where I need to know. You see our daughter has always been "Daddy's little Girl and the mother knows that. She does things purposely in order to try to break the bondage that our daughter has for me. My ex has two more younger children from her new marriage... you would figure that our daughter would want to spent more time with her small siblings...it is exactly the opposite. The mother tries to buy our duaghter's love with gifts and toys, etc... and still, our daughter refuses to live with her mother.

When I do get to talk to our daughter, she spents anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour with me on the phone.

When our child is with me and the mother calls, our daughter does not want to speak with her, and when she does is only a few minutes... and the majority of the time when the mother brings up the conversation that she is going to pick her up, our daughter tells her that she does not want to leave with her.


This behavior would concern me from both sides, mother and father. I would be concerned on both sides that something in the "other" household is upsetting the child. If something is happening in your ex-wife's household, that should be addressed. If somehow your attitude toward your ex is affecting the child, that should be addressed.

There certainly should be Court-ordered, independent evaluations for all of the involved parties because I can see this only getting worse.

This behavior would concern me from both sides, mother and father. I would be concerned on both sides that something in the "other" household is upsetting the child. If something is happening in your ex-wife's household, that should be addressed. If somehow your attitude toward your ex is affecting the child, that should be addressed.

There certainly should be Court-ordered, independent evaluations for all of the involved parties because I can see this only getting worse.


Yes, it's getting worse since the mother keeps violating the court order.

Even though our daughter is 4 yrs old, she knows when her mother prevents contact with her. So in other words, is just a matter of time before our child rebels agints her.

Yes, it's getting worse since the mother keeps violating the court order.

Even though our daughter is 4 yrs old, she knows when her mother prevents contact with her. So in other words, is just a matter of time before our child rebels agints her.


How does your daughter know?

How does your daughter know?

She is at the age where she only knows how to tell how she feels. She tells the truth like any innocent child would. And when she saids that she has to hide the phone under her pillow so her mother does take it away from her when I call?

And when she asks for me to pick her up and her mother agrees as long as I drop her off... and when I show up the mother refuses to let her go... the child sees this and even the child tells her she is being mean!!

I can go on and on of the things my ex does to prevent contact...

You need to document everything. Als, you need to be more proactive, not reactive.

You need to document everything. Als, you need to be more proactive, not reactive.

That's what kills me... I document everything.
Including detail minutes of how long I talk to our daughter.

Problem begins when the Judge refuses to see the evidence?!

Your writing down things is not going to impress the judge that much. You need to back it up with police reports, psychologist reports, teacher reports, etc.

Your writing down things is not going to impress the judge that much. You need to back it up with police reports, psychologist reports, teacher reports, etc.


You are right... that's why I have at least 20 police report incidents... the Judge refused to see even one (1) of them.

You are right...that's why I have at least 20 police report incidents...the Judge refused to see even one (1) of them.


I think my question was just answered - this has gone on too long and the Court is sick of it. Time to bring in an experienced Attorney, perhaps an investigator. As Scott said, stop reacting and take the offensive.

I think my question was just answered - this has gone on too long and the Court is sick of it. Time to bring in an experienced Attorney, perhaps an investigator. As Scott said, stop reacting and take the offensive.

Yes, you are right, it's time to get another Attorney. I think the judge is taking to easy on her since she is represented by a lawyer and I am Pro se.

I keep talking about this and see it repreated here. This may give some of you insight into a parental evaluation and what its suppose to be.

A Guide To The Parenting Evaluation Process (http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/guide.php)

Hope that helps.

I keep talking about this and see it repreated here. This may give some of you insight into a parental evaluation and what its suppose to be.

A Guide To The Parenting Evaluation Process (http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/guide.php)

Hope that helps.

Yes it does. As matter of fact I have that site saved under my favorites in my computer.
I guess I need to ask the lawyer if it's too late for the evaluation since the trial already passed.

If you hire a lawyer for a contempt charge and it sticks you can ask for her to pay lawyers fees etc for that action. You will still owe your lawyer but should you win it might help to stop her pattern of abusing the court orders. Another thing you might look into is P.A.S. parental alienation syndrom. But in your case it sounds more like your daughter is mostly having an adjustment issue since mommie and daddy are apart and mommie has a new daddy. Situations like this are very common and you need to be aware and sensetive to them without just casting blame. Be careful and good luck.

Just a thought - have you looked into a Guardian Ad Litem sitaution for your daughter since the ex has been denying you contact? The Guardian Ad Litems are not free BUT they can do an indepth report on both households and the findings are taken seriously by the Court. When you hire another attorney ask them about the Guardian Ad Litem being appointed in your case. Sounds like the judge is tired of this case and some fresh input is definitely needed here.

If you hire a lawyer for a contempt charge and it sticks you can ask for her to pay lawyers fees etc for that action. You will still owe your lawyer but should you win it might help to stop her pattern of abusing the court orders. Another thing you might look into is P.A.S. parental alienation syndrom. But in your case it sounds more like your daughter is mostly having an adjustment issue since mommie and daddy are apart and mommie has a new daddy. Situations like this are very common and you need to be aware and sensetive to them without just casting blame. Be careful and good luck.


Good point... when we separated our daughter was only two(2) now she is four (4).
So she knows she has two different homes. But you are right, if for at least once the Judge rules on the side of the law I might have a chance of stopping this behavior.

Just a thought - have you looked into a Guardian Ad Litem sitaution for your daughter since the ex has been denying you contact? The Guardian Ad Litems are not free BUT they can do an indepth report on both households and the findings are taken seriously by the Court. When you hire another attorney ask them about the Guardian Ad Litem being appointed in your case. Sounds like the judge is tired of this case and some fresh input is definitely needed here.

During the Final hearing/trial I brought up the question as the judge was walking to her chambers(this is during the trial... talk about having respect for people)
She said it was too late for he Guardian Ad Litems.

So yes, this is a question that I need to bring to a different lawyer.

Just a thought - have you looked into a Guardian Ad Litem sitaution for your daughter since the ex has been denying you contact? The Guardian Ad Litems are not free BUT they can do an indepth report on both households and the findings are taken seriously by the Court. When you hire another attorney ask them about the Guardian Ad Litem being appointed in your case. Sounds like the judge is tired of this case and some fresh input is definitely needed here.


In my area if the Judge gets tired enough of the back and forth accusations a Guardian is appointed and the child is also evaluated automatically. Judge is looking for one parent attempting to alienate the child from the other.

In my area if the Judge gets tired enough of the back and forth accusations a Guardian is appointed and the child is also evaluated automatically. Judge is looking for one parent attempting to alienate the child from the other.

It's a sad situation... since the only person who loses at the end is always the child.

I hope something good has happened for you, I found your question looking for answers of my own. I am also battling Fl. Family court, same problems but a 10 year old child. We have been in court for six years. If you try to take her to court on contempt for refusal of visitation, the same thing will happen every time, nothing. It will cost you to file the paper work, and attorney or no attorney, you will get the same result nothing. You can record your hearings yourself, make sure you get a tape with the longest record time, and you can have a "court room observer" present. Try to get someone from a local church. They cannot testify, but it does stop the judge from text messaging during the hearing, at least it did in our case. One thing that I have told insisted on, that you need to do, Absolutely no conversations with the mother, none for any reason. All communication needs to be done by email. Paper trail. Period. Recorded phone conversations are not admissible, it may even get you charged with a crime. I do have a lot of things I have found over the years, but honestly nothing has really helped. We go back to court again in a week, for the judge to interview the child. That will also do no good at this point, he is so brainwashed, and programmed it is sick. You need to Google Hostile Aggressive Parenting, your daughter still wants to visit you, so it has not gone to the point of Parental alienation YET. One thing that you can ask for in a court order is date and time specific parenting times for you, that if refused by the mother, orders the sheriff to remove the child from her custody, and put her in your custody. Making the refusal of visitation a criminal contempt charge, not civil. I asked for this several years ago, it was refused by the judge, who said in our hearing two weeks ago that he wished now, that he would have granted that order so he wouldn't have to see us anymore. Nice huh? Keep in mind, the judge does not know either one of you, and will see you both as idiots, but no matter what they favor the mother. I am only speaking from experience, the mother has the advantage even if she isn't supposed to.

I hope something good has happened for you, I found your question looking for answers of my own. I am also battling Fl. family court, same problems but a 10 year old child. We have been in court for six years. If you try to take her to court on contempt for refusal of visitation, the same thing will happen every time, nothing. It will cost you to file the paper work, and attorney or no attorney, you will get the same result nothing. You can record your hearings yourself, make sure you get a tape with the longest record time, and you can have a "court room observer" present. Try to get someone from a local church. They cannot testify, but it does stop the judge from text messaging during the hearing, at least it did in our case. One thing that I have told insisted on, that you need to do, Absolutely no conversations with the mother, none for any reason. All communication needs to be done by email. Paper trail. Period. Recorded phone conversations are not admissable, it may even get you charged with a crime. I do have a lot of things I have found over the years, but honestly nothing has really helped. We go back to court again in a week, for the judge to interview the child. That will also do no good at this point, he is so brainwashed, and programmed it is sick. You need to google Hostile Aggressive Parenting, your daughter still wants to visit you, so it has not gone to the point of Parental alienation YET. One thing that you can ask for in a court order is date and time specific parenting times for you, that if refused by the mother, orders the sheriff to remove the child from her custody, and put her in your custody. Making the refusal of visitation a criminal contempt charge, not civil. I asked for this several years ago, it was refused by the judge, who said in our hearing two weeks ago that he wished now, that he would have granted that order so he wouldn't have to see us anymore. Nice huh? Keep in mind, the judge does not know either one of you, and will see you both as idiots, but no matter what they favor the mother. I am only speaking from experience, the mother has the advantage even if she isn't supposed to.



Thanks for the reply. How does that work: "ask for in a court order is date and time specific parenting times for you, that if refused by the mother, orders the sheriff to remove the child from her custody, and put her in your custody".

When I server for contempt of court?

Thanks in advance,

Jorge

When you file the paper work for contempt, there is a place on the second page, about in the middle, that says awarding other relief {explain}. I wrote " to secure my parenting time, I ask the court to issue an order date and time specific for transfer of the minor child for fathers parenting time, with an order to the sheriff, that if mother does not comply, to remove the child from mothers custody, and put child in fathers custody for stated parenting time. To make refusal of parenting time a crimal contempt charge, not civil.