Hello:

I don't know. I don't like how W ruined the country. I think he's a dufus. I don't like how Cheney acts. I don't like neocons. I don't like Mulcasy or Gonzales or Bolton, or the Scooter dude...

But, I would never accuse them of hating America. Those are things righty's do. I don't know why. I suppose you'll deny it. Again, I don't know why.

Keith Olbermann is as left as you get. He never accuses the right of hate. Bill O'Reilly, on the other hand, calls all sort of groups he doesn't like, haters of America.

Now, I know you'll look into things and come up with a few lefty's who use the "H" Word. But, that doesn't prove anything. I suppose you'll do this to disprove my premise. If you want to argue that and pretend that what's going on ISN'T going on, I'm used to that.

Come on. I know in your soul, you think the left hates America. George?? In? DC?? N0?? Tom?

excon

I never really listen to O'reilly but the only ones I would ever say hate America are the ones that say it out of their own mouth like Farakahn and Rev. Right.
Also if you really ever notice Farakahn, Rev Right, Jesse Jackson and others are keeping racism alive and well because it is their message and what keeps their popularity up.

The only hate-america types I see are the ones that constantly start threads here about everything that is wrong about america.

I don't know ex. You want to say W ruined the country. His presidency followed the most corrupt, divisive president in modern American history. He claimed to be a "compassionate" conservative; he wanted to heal the politics of personal destruction practiced by the Dems and the mainstream media. He has given the Dems and MSM everything they wanted for 7 1/2 years, never vetoing any of the Congressional foolishness that's been going on. What are you complaining about?

He has given the Dems and MSM everything they wanted for 7 1/2 years, never vetoing any of the Congressional foolishness that's been going on. What are you complaining about?

Precisely!

Hello George:

You kind of missed my point. S'ok. I knew you didn't want to answer my question...

Plus, you missed your history lesson too. For 4 of those 7 and half years, the REPUBLICANS were running the show and THAT'S when Bush DIDN'T veto a bill. Since the Dems are running things, he's vetoed plenty.

Like I say, you just want to spout - not discuss. S'ok. I figured as much.

excon

Well since I just used the word in regards to Richard Falk (and my response has since been removed besides the factual accuracy of what I posted ) .I have to stand by my contention that he not only hates America but also hates Israel.
Keith Olberman wears his hates on his sleeves . He doesn't have to say it . His rants are not nuanced enough to disguise them .

Hello tom:

Keith is right on. I agree with him absolutely! But you don't think I hate America, do you? Or, are you being disingenuous with me?

You can't have it both ways here.

excon

I don't believe you hate America ex just a little too loyal to the 'wrong' side of politics...
Oops I don't seem to see a 'right' side of politics!

Hello again, N0:

Thanks, saph. I love you too. But, it makes my point even more.

If the righty's here don't think I hate America, why do they hate others who think like I do?? Or, are they just being polite with me? Either way, it's disturbing.

excon

I don't think it is really about hate. I see the extreme left in some lala land of fantasy and not going about things realistically so I think it is more the rights frustrations over the left than hate for them.
Like the left saying they want to 'talk things out with the terrorists' Realistically that will never work. Realistically many things they want will not work but they often tend to tie the hands of the 'right' trying to make things work.
You and me and others, --we are just stuck in the middle and having to choose what we perceive as the lesser of two evils.

It is refreshing, somewhat, to see you outing yourself. You are no libertarian, for sure.

Hello again, George:

You don't know what a fascist is, so it's not surprising that you don't know what a libertarian is either.

Still no discussion?? I figured. You GOT NO discussion. All you got is name calling...

excon

Here is my exact words : Keith Olberman wears his hates on his sleeves.

I did not say he hates America .I think it is very clear that he retains his rants mostly at Bush and the right .

But I still stand by my remarks about Richard Falk. And I will reiterate what was removed . A person like him wop spreads such hate in the position he is in incites violence.

Keith Olberman wears his hates on his sleeves. I did not say he hates America.Hello again, Tom:

A distinction without a difference.

He rants no less vociferously than I do, and on the very SAME issues. May I assume you think my sleeves are drenched in hate also? I'm just looking for some consistency here.

excon

Not at all, you have on many issues called out the Democrats and the left. Olberman never does.

But is there a distinction without a difference in your contempt of President Bush ? Let's use some other words that are evidently not so taboo or PC .Would you say your feelings are hostile to President Bush derived from anger at him ? Would you say you have an extreme dislike to President Bush ? Would you say you loath ;abhore or think he is an abomination ? Are you repulsed by him ;does he disgust you ?

As for Bill OReilley ;I can't answer for him . I rarely watch his show .As I 've mentioned before ;when I have I noticed that he allows different points of view to be debated while Olberman (who I watch much more often )never does . I suspect that some of the people he targets do hate America . Who in particular did he say this of ?

Hello again, N0:

Thanks, saph. I love you too. But, it makes my point even more.

If the righty's here don't think I hate America, why do they hate others who think like I do??? Or, are they just being polite with me?? Either way, it's disturbing.

excon

Ex, I can't speak for anyone else but you have my respect for actually engaging in a discussion, I think you're a reasonable guy. The 'others' aren't reasonable, they only see things their way. Period. End of discussion. They deserve no respect.

Ex,

I don't watch O'Reilly that much, but I have seen him call a number of people you would probably least expect him to, "patriots." He even calls Al Sharpton a "stand up guy" and has guests from both sides of a debate. I'd bet most of the people that "hate" O'Reilly never watch him.

Anyway, America haters are a special class. They are the ones that put up signs in their yard saying, "F*** Bush," "F*** the police," "F*** the US government," etc. They are the people who are more concerned with European opinion than their neighbor's opinion. They are the ones that blame all of the world's problems on the U.S. but as the folks at Cox and Forkum (http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000199.html) say, wouldn't carry a sign saying "DOWN WITH IRANIAN THEOCRACY" or "STOP THE PALESTINIAN SLAUGHTER OF JEWISH CHILDREN ON BUSES" or "DICTATORS LIE, MILLIONS DIE."

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/AmericanHaters.gif

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/us/13vets.html?hp
Bastion of liberalism puts this article out

NYT: Our Veterans are a Bunch of Murderers on a 'Downward Spiral'? (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1953683/posts)

"To recap, veteran murder rates put them at 1.34 incidents per 100,000 vets and the general population sees that statistic at 7.67 per 100,000. Apparently, we are safer with our veterans around than we are with the rest of the citizenry of the country!


So, why the focus on vets that turn into murderers, NYTimes? "


Berkeley Tell Marine Recruiting To Leave Town: Calls Them Uninvited And Unwelcome Intruders - Say Anything (http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/berkeley_tell_marine_recruiting_to_leave_town_call s_them_uninvited_and_unwe/)


Theses are just some example of the left's attitude toward the country.


The biggest is their stance on abortion - how more dramatically demonstrate your attitude than to abort all those potential Americans?

The biggest is their stance on abortion - how more dramatically demonstrate your attitude than to abort all those potential Americans?Liberals don't abort, women do, conservative AND liberal women. Why are you not blaming the constitution and gun manufacturers for gun deaths??

Liberals don't abort, women do, conservative AND liberal women. Why are you not blaming the constition and gun manufacturers for gun deaths????
With respect, this makes no sense.

With respect, this makes no sense.I'll explain it for you. The constitution allows for individuals to own guns yet guns kill innocent people, should that amendment be repealed? Gun manufacturers make guns that kill innocent people, should they be outlawed from making and selling guns? That's the same argument he's using for abortion. If you want to stem abortion go after the individuals that do it and punish them, put them in jail for killing americans. Just like you currently do for the people that kill with guns.

Guns don't kill and people would continue to be killed if there were no guns.

There is no "right" for abortion, per se; it has been "found" within the constitution by the supreme court, activist justices and all that.

On another thread, someone asked, "Does the majority rule?" Every time the majority speaks on abortion, the supreme court speaks louder, unconstitutionally in my view. On gun control, the supreme court is about to speak to the 2nd amendment in a case from the District of Columbia, where the city council banned private ownership of handguns. Now that is an interesting question, where the action of a city government conflicts with the constitution.

Perhaps Hillary and/or Obama will ban pencils and pens for misspelled words.

Both Hillary and Obama waffled on the 2nd Amendment question visa-vie the DC case last night . They both claimed to not know enough about it to comment. Lol He compared 2nd Amendment rights to zoning ordinances. He said he did not fill out the questionair that was submitted in his name in 1996 where he supported making the manufacture and sale of guns illegal in Ill. It was filled out according to Obama by a staffer who did notr consult him (now officially known as "the Ron Paul defense ") .The Politico has already reported that the handwriting on the form matches Obama's .

I'll explain it for you. The constitution allows for individuals to own guns yet guns kill innocent people, should that amendment be repealed? Gun manufacturers make guns that kill innocent people, should they be outlawed from making and selling guns? That's the same argument he's using for abortion. If you want to stem abortion go after the individuals that do it and punish them, put them in jail for killing americans. Just like you currently do for the people that kill with guns.

The second amendment makes it constitutional to keep and bear arms, it doesn't legalize the use of those guns to take innocent lives. The abortion crowd has successfully argued a "right to privacy" that is not expressed in the constitution which makes it legal to take innocent lives for virtually any reason.

You can't go after doctors for practicing within the rules no matter how many lives they extinguish, or mothers that abort their children. Yet gun control advocates have repeatedly sued gun manufacturers, blaming them for the violence. They have repeatedly insisted on gun bans, even to the point of outlawing the possession of equipment needed to make guns. So yes, the left does want to repeal the amendment that expresses our right to own a gun and they do want to hold gun manufacturers accountable for the actions of others, while protecting a 'right' that isn't expressed in the constitution without holding anyone accountable for the deaths of millions of innocents. And they don't even see the irony...

http://www.goodbyeguns.org/thompson.jpg

What about the altar of abortion?

You can't go after doctors for practicing within the rules no matter how many lives they extinguish, or mothers that abort their children. Why can't you go after the mothers? It's no different than the person who murders with a gun. If they are committing murder shouldn't they be tried for first degree murder?

Why can't you go after the mothers? It's no different than the person who murders with a gun. If they are committing murder shouldn't they be tried for first degree murder?

It's simple NK, they didn't do anything illegal. That was part of my point.

It's simple NK, they didn't do anything illegal. That was part of my point.Do you want it to be?

Do you want it to be?

Don't be ridiculous, NK. I think the trauma of aborting one's baby is more than enough punishment for many if not most women. But you're dodging the point, which is easy enough to see.

Ok so abortion should not be illegal. I agree with you.

No abortion should be illegal and if anyone is punished it should be the abortionist who is performing the act ;and even if it is legal ;violating the Hippocratic oath.

So the woman is blameless in your world?

Ultimately there is no abortion without the abortionist .

Hey I got to tell you . Hitler would be jelous of our accomplishments in eugenics. I wonder if Obama ever asks why there are so many familiy planning clinics in poor and minority neighborhoods .

There would be no abortion required if the woman didn't seek it out. Hitler would be proud indeed of the control you wish to put over people.

There would be no abortion required if the woman didn't seek it out.

So, demand justifies supply? Does demand for meth justify its manufacture, sale, and use?

Ok so abortion should not be illegal. I agree with you.

Personally NK, I think someone is playing games with edits. I remember distinctly saying "Don't be ridiculous" to your suggestion of the possibility of punishing the mothers, not "do I want abortion to be illegal."

Ultimately there is no abortion without the abortionist .

Hey I gotta tell ya . Hitler would be jelous of our accomplishments in eugenics. I wonder if Obama ever asks why there are so many familiy planning clinics in poor and minority neighborhoods .

I wonder if Obama ever asks why blacks account for 32 percent of the abortions in the US but account for only 12 percent of the population. Probably not, he sees no sense in 'punishing' women with a baby.

I wonder if Obama ever asks why blacks account for 32 percent of the abortions in the US but account for only 12 percent of the population. Probably not, he sees no sense in 'punishing' women with a baby.What can one senator do against a lifetime of american culture? What's McCain's stance on the higher incidence of abortions among blacks?

Steve
Also I think it was you who linked to the audio of the guy calling up Planned Parenthood and asking if he could give a donation contingent on blacks getting the abortion.

Anway if you did not here it is :

YouTube - PART I: Planned Parenthood Racism Investigation (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Eygv8qEkiFE)

Steve
Also I think it was you who linked to the audio of the guy calling up Planned Parenthood and asking if he could give a donation contingent on blacks getting the abortion.

Anway if you did not here it is :

YouTube - PART I: Planned Parenthood Racism Investigation (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Eygv8qEkiFE)

And yet as Michelle Malkin pointed out the media is all too eager to do an undercover investigation of military recruiting centers but not Planned Parenthood.

What can one senator do against a lifetime of american culture?

Get a spine.


What's McCain's stance on the higher incidence of abortions among blacks?

Good pro-lifers believe every child deserves a chance.


John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision (http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/95b18512-d5b6-456e-90a2-12028d71df58.htm) that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench. Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states. The difficult issue of abortion should not be decided by judicial fiat.

However, the reversal of Roe v. Wade represents only one step in the long path toward ending abortion. Once the question is returned to the states, the fight for life will be one of courage and compassion - the courage of a pregnant mother to bring her child into the world and the compassion of civil society to meet her needs and those of her newborn baby. The pro-life movement has done tremendous work in building and reinforcing the infrastructure of civil society by strengthening faith-based, community, and neighborhood organizations that provide critical services to pregnant mothers in need. This work must continue and government must find new ways to empower and strengthen these armies of compassion. These important groups can help build the consensus necessary to end abortion at the state level. As John McCain has publicly noted, "At its core, abortion is a human tragedy. To effect meaningful change, we must engage the debate at a human level."

Promoting Adoption

In 1993, John McCain and his wife, Cindy, adopted a little girl from Mother Teresa's orphanage in Bangladesh. She has been a blessing to the McCain family and helped make adoption advocacy a personal issue for the Senator.

The McCain family experience is not unique; millions of families have had their lives transformed by the adoption of a child. As president, motivated by his personal experience, John McCain will seek ways to promote adoption as a first option for women struggling with a crisis pregnancy. In the past, he cosponsored legislation to prohibit discrimination against families with adopted children, to provide adoption education, and to permit tax deductions for qualified adoption expenses, as well as to remove barriers to interracial and inter-ethnic adoptions.

If anyone should state they they hate America , it is probably because they don't vote , have never been involved in any of the system at all, or are just plain ignorant and uneducated.
In my life time , I have always voted since I was of age, have , unfortunately , had to deal with the legal system, and have had to use the Social Services system. THEY ALL WORK if you follow the system and do what is asked of you. It's not hard to see why this is the GREATEST COUNTRY on the face of the Earth. I will admit that things don't always work out for everyone but that is just the nature of the beast.