I'll try to give all the info I can. I bought this car a few months ago , supposed to have about
20,000 mi on a rebuild, timing belt good. The first time, it cranked over, fired, sputtered and died. Then I could crank and crank but it wouldn't fire.When I first turn the key, I can hear the fuel pump run and shut off and the main relay clicks. I then engage the starter, the fuel pump also starts running,but engine never wants to catch. I can smell raw gas in the tail pipe. The led on the ecm flashes as follows: 1 pause 1 pause 17 pause 1 pause 17... I have checked the main relay by the book and Its good. Where do I go from here?. P.S. I've read several other posts here If you think Its my ECM, How do I find/count the pins to check them?


Regards,

Greg

Perform tests, in Sections A and B, below:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-trucks/faq-how-troubleshoot-repair-maintain-hondas-46563.html

Be sure to perform the K-Test on your ECM.

Thanks for your reply.
I have gone through A and B. Igniter module and coil have been replaced. I had a good used cap, and I couldn't remove the rotor without breaking it (then cutting the metal collar off the Dist. shaft- frozen on) so, new rotor button. Now It sounds like it wants to start, just won't.
I have seen you mention the K- test before... What is it, and where do I find how to do it?

Greg

The K-Test: Remove the MAP Sensor connector and turn the ignition switch to ON (not start). Using a multimeter, check for 5 volts going between the MAP Sensor connector's reference wire (+) and ground. As you look at the connector, this is the socket on the right. Really press the black test lead into a cleaned main ECM ground on the thermostat housing. If the voltage is low, it's probably indicating ECM failure. Most failed ECMs will record a fraction of a volt. To me, the K-Test is simple, elegant, and accurate.

I have Checked the Map sensor plug voltage, with key off (.19 mv) with key in position 1 (.19 mv) and in position 2 (5.5 volts)... What's next?

Thanks again,

Greg

If you have spark, but the engine won't start, the problem may be with sensors inside the distributor (CKP, CYL, and TDC). They are not serviceable and would require installing a new distributor housing (Honda only).

Did you check all under-hood and under-dash fuses with a test light or multimeter?

I do have good spark, and have checked all of the fuses with an audible continuity tester.
I even borrowed a friends ecm ( out of his "running" civic). You think I might need a new distributor? When you wrote "Honda only",do you mean "don't get a re-man?
Could it be the map sensor? It cranks and (sometimes) sounds like it wants to start.

Thanks,

Greg

Yes. Go to Honda and buy just the distributor housing ($150).

Are you sure about that price? I just checked at 2 local dealership parts desks, and was told
$294.54!! (wholesale) OUCH!! Is there a different source I should be looking to? I Also
Double checked to make sure the price was for a "dist housing only". Retail they wanted
$369.10.

Greg

Tell them you only want the housing, not the ICM, coil, rotor, and distributor cap.

I did. You have been such a big help already, I hate to ask. Do you have a part # that I can give him? I am not sure he's being straight with me. And yet, I got the same answer from 2
Different dealerships (Knoxville, Tn) One of them wouldn't even offer a wholesale price even after I gave him my business info.

Greg

I don't have the part no. for your distributor housing but I wouldn't pay what they are asking. Try to find a suitable alternative.

Was the timing belt replaced because it broke before could be a bent valve I had an eagle talon that did the same

Greasemonkey, I replaced the distributor with a Advance auto parts rebuilt... No difference.
I thought I might have gotten the plug wires "off by 1" when I replaced the cap earlier, so I moved them 1 place at a time all the way around the cap with no results.

Josh, The timing belt was replaced because the engine was totally rebuilt. I don't think it would have run for 20,000 miles with bent valves.

Greg

I am guessing you're out of ideas. Here is something else I have noticed, and maybe it will help. After the car has sat for a few days, I crank it and immediately it starts and runs for no more than a second and dies. Then it's back to the same thing. I am getting desperate to get this car running (my truck only gets 14 mpg). Are there any other sensors I can test ?

Greg

Are the ignitor and coil new? Ensure you have the spark plug wires hooked up properly. Are you confident the main relay is okay?

Try cleaning the main ECM ground on the thermostat housing and resetting the ECM.

Yes the Ignitor and coil are new. Today I swapped out the main relay with my friend (his relay in my car and my relay in his car) mine runs in his and his doesn't run in mine. Also swapped the map sensor, no change. Does disconnecting the battery reset the ecm? If so, It's
Been reset about 20 times in the past few weeks. No codes flashing anyway.
As for a ground on the thermostat housing?. there is a bracket that holds a wire bundle,
But I don't see a ground wire... on my car, or my friends.

Greg

Yes, disconnecting the negative. Battery cable resets the ECM. The main ECM ground is a 3-wire brass connector, attached to the thermostat housing. I don't know much else to suggest. Have you changed the fuel filter recently and checked fuel pressure?

FINAL THOUGHT: When the timing belt was replaced, did the rebuilder ensure TDC was on the compression stroke, not the exhaust stroke? It makes a big difference. This may be part of the reason why you can smell raw gas in the tail pipe.

Yes, I changed the fuel filter last week and need to check pressure. What should pressure be?Is there a possibility that the PRESSURE REGULATOR IS BAD? The timing belt was changed 20,000 miles ago, and the car has run great for the 6 months
I have owned it. The day it quit, I started it , moved it forward in the driveway, and backed up into a different space, and it died and wouldn't re-start. Would any car run well ( good power and 33 mpg/city-hiway)for this many miles with the timing belt off by 180?

Timing belt is likely okay, based upon your description.

Fuel Pressure Regulator Test

The fuel pressure regulator maintains a constant fuel pressure to the fuel injectors. When the difference between the fuel pressure and manifold pressure exceeds 43 psi, the diaphragm is pushed upward, and the excess fuel is fed back into the fuel tank through the return line.

Test:

1. Attach fuel pressure gauge to service port of fuel filter. Pressure should be 40-47 psi, with fuel pressure regulator vacuum hose disconnected and pinched.
2. Reconnect vacuum hose to fuel pressure regulator.
3. Check that fuel pressure rises when vacuum hose from fuel pressure regulator is disconnected again. If fuel pressure did not rise, replace fuel pressure regulator.

Doesn't the "fuel pressure regulator test" assume the car is running? Because you won't get any manifold vacuum if it isn't. So pinching-off the vac hose means nothing in my case.
However, I did a pressure test (after fabricating an adapter to fit the service port) by turning the key until I hear the pump run for 2 seconds. The results are 39-40 psi. Right in the range
Of 35- 41 psi for 1985 through 1990 civic dual-point injection.
FWIW, I have looked at 2 other civics in same year range, and none of them have a ground wire, or any other harness grounded to the thermostat housing.
BTW, I do thank you for your continuing communications. Eventually I'll find the problem, and it will no doubt be something very simple.

Yes, assumes engine is running.

Never give up!

HERE IS WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS!!
After thinking about how the car would start after sitting for a few days (and only run for a second), then smelling raw gas, I thought it must be flooding. I checked out a few other discussion groups on the subject : cleaning fuel injectors... (long story-short)... ohm tested injectors, both good. I pulled the wiring plugs from the injectors(both of them) and it sounded like it wanted to start!. dirty injectors stuck open?. Cleaned them in an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner (did not submerge ) filled with SEAFOAM, put them back in, and it has run great ! Mileage has also improved. Before, 28 to 33 (last tank before it quit, 25) now having run for 4 or 5 fill-ups, it's getting 35-37 mpg!
Something so simple! I hope this can help someone else keep it rollin' down the road.
P.S. If you have 150k or more, take your injectors to a shop that does "ultrasonic cleaning" and testing. According to one Volvo owner, that had used the high dollar "through the tank or rail" cleaners, nothing was as good as ultrasonic. You'll be amazed by the difference in before/after spray pattern

Great idea. My father has an ultrasonic cleaner and uses them to clean carburetor parts. They do an awesome job.

89civic hatchback starts sometimes but normally cranks acts like getting no fuel changed fuel filter and pump still same could it be map sensor 89 civic 1.5l

jugelcanah, I would replace the Ignition Control Module (ICM) and coil, if the Check Engine Light comes on for 2 seconds and then goes out, when the ignition switch is turned to ON (Position II).

MAP Sensors are extremely reliable and often expensive.