Over the last two weeks I have caught my GF in lies...

I have asked her about a coworker that appeared on her myspace... she acted funny and then said she didn't recognize the name or know who I was talking about

The we talked about a big weekend she had a month ago in a different city. She got so drunk with friends the night before that she didn't wake up/couldnt get up until to the next day. (She has told me about her past: she has had blackout sex with strangers a few times, so I think its understandalbe that I get uneasy when she does this out of town.)

So then she slipped up and said a guy was staying with her and her friend that weekend and that her friend who stayed with her that weekend has now broken up with her boyfriend. EVERY conversation we have had about that weekend she never once mentioned a guy or that her friend was shacking up with an ex. To me, this means she's hiding something.

Also, a few months before all of this, she got drunk at a bar with me and my friends and gave her nuber to a guy who was flirting with her. The next day she had no memory of it.. black out drunk yet again.. it was a kick to the balls to say the least.

And now that I have confronted her about her behavior, she tells me that she didn't want to worry me about that weekend out of town, and the guy on her myspace is a coworker she knows and works with...

My question is why lie?

She has an excuse for everything. We've been dating for two years and live together. Also, she seems to care about our relationship, but she makes it very clear she cares just as much about past relationships. To me, an ex is an ex. If it's a longterm BF, I can understand that, but she hold on to guys (calls/emails) that she knew/had sex with for a month or two. She says that she cares that it botherers me, but says she won't do anything about it. *frustrating*

And now the lies. And Im thinking if I stumbled upon these lies, what else should I be concerned about? Im hating myself right now. I feel like such a fool. I know she has feelings for me, but I think we are two different people at this point.

I wish I could find someone who wants, and deserves, my love...

It sounds like she's pretty immature, and at the very least has a drinking problem. The main issue here, is that you do not trust this girl. Plain and simple. And it sounds as if you have good reason not to. Also, it sounds like she is dismissing your concerns, which is a big problem. Does it boost her ego to hold on to guys numbers, and to hold in high regard a past relationship? Sounds a little whack to me... I def think she has some issues. And she got drunk and gave her number to some guy? That sounds very high-schoolish... it doesn't sound to me that she is ready for a committed relationship. I would try talking to her about her drinking. I have a friend who blacks out and gets so drink she doesn't remember anything and gets out of control... you need to have a serious conversation with her about this. If she still doesn't see that there is a problem, maybe it's time for you to re-evaluate this relationship. Sounds like you already are... hope this helps. :) this is just my opinion... good luck, you sound like a nice guy who deserves better.

First of all you sound like a really nice guy that has put up with a lot of crap from this chick. And I will call her this because she is not acting like a women or someone you should be in a relationship with. My view is she isn't taking you very seriously and is having fun whenever she can. I mean your talking to people here from the outside so that's how it comes across.
You know you can have better than this man.


End it man before you find her having black out sex with some random dude or mr co worker.


BLACKOUT sex? I really don't care how drunk you are. You know what's going on. And I can totally understand why that makes you feel upset.

You should really talk to her and let her know how you feel and she needs to do something to change. Because I'm sure if she has a problem with you she will try and change you.

my advice is talk to her. But I really wouldn't recommend being with anyone that can say oh I have blackout sex when I'm drunk. I mean... I don't know that really is just awful to have hanging over you in a relationship.

Keep Xs in the BAG as well is just wrong. So if anything happens with you she will jump back onto mr x or mr new guy this women sounds young and is stroking her ego having all these guys around her.

If I was you man and I found out all this I would have a very seirous talk about this. Say OK its either me or your xs bercause you don't play 2nd best

There are better people for you out there.

This girl has pisst me off and I don't even know her!

good luck

I agree with everyone else. You don't deserve to be treated this way. My biggest concern would be her having "black out sex' and then bringing an STD home to you. If you can't trust her... get out. The world is full of loving and respectful women... WITH MORALS too.
Mike

First this is not a relastionship, well not a healthy one by any means.
So you are OK with her getting so drunk she just sleeps with anyone,

Don't be a fool. Totally forget her. Move on. Even if she's as foxy as can be. Forget her.

She is doing what you have allowed her to do all of this time. She obviously has a drinking problem. The question is "If you know all of this about her, why have you stayed and why are you asking about her telling lies to you?"
Get a grip on your life. Cut her lose and move on.

We hit it off great, and then once we got serious she told me she lost her virginity to rape

And then she refused to stop talking to old f-buddies. I don't think she meets up with them, but she continues covert emails, etc...

I even went as far as to go to a rape therapist myself to encourage her to join me

No dice

And fwiw, she doesn't currently have a drinking problem per se, she rarely drinks now, but when she does she really ties one on.

And she has such as good heart, but some of her thought processes seem a little warped top me. She seems to be religious about keeping everyone on the same level - me, old exes, whoever. No one takes priorty over another.

How is that fair to me? She can't see it

To make matters more complicated, she lives with me and she makes close to zero money. I moved far away from fam and friends to be here with her, and my job is really going great, but if we aren't here together, it seems like a bad move on my part. And I don't know how the whole living situation will pan out...

I agree with everyone else. You dont deserve to be treated this way. My biggest concern would be her having "black out sex' and then bringing an STD home to you. If you can't trust her......get out. The world is full of loving and respectful women......WITH MORALS too.
Mike

That was in her past (I hope.. j/k) after her rape when she felt like sht about herself

my advice is talk to her. but i really wouldnt recomend being with anyone that can say oh i have blackout sex when im drunk. i mean.... i dont know that really is just awful to have hanging over you in a realtionship.

Keep Xs in the BAG as well is just wrong. so if anything happens with you she will jump back onto mr x or mr new guy this women sounds young and is stroking her ego having all these guys around her.

If i was you man and i found out all this i would have a very seirous talk about this. say ok its either me or your xs bercause you dont play 2nd best

There are better people for you out there.

This girl has pisst me off and i dont even know her!

good luck

I have talked my head off about this. Already told her I couldn't justify taking our relationship to the next level if she didn't lose the Xs... she didn't budge

Her excuse was that she didn't want to put undo pressure on me since I was inbetweeen jobs at the time

we hit it off great, and then once we got serious she told me she lost her virginity to rape

And then she refused to stop talking to old f-buddies. I don't think she meets up with them, but she continues covert emails, etc...

I even went as far as to go to a rape therapist myself to encourage her to join me

No dice



And she has such as good heart, but some of her thought processes seem a little warped top me. She seems to be religious about keeping everyone on the same level - me, old exes, whoever. No one takes priorty over another.

How is that fair to me? She can't see it

To make matters more complicated, she lives with me and she makes close to zero money. I moved far away from fam and friends to be here with her, and my job is really going great, but if we aren't here together, it seems like a bad move on my part. And I don't know how the whole living situation will pan out...


This is a one sided relationship and I know you love her but I hate to tell you it won't work, because of the simple fact that you are the only one acknowledging the relationship. Don't make excuses for her and fwiw,
she doesn't currently have a drinking problem per se, she rarely drinks now, but when she does she really ties one on.
Perhaps she is not really ready for this relationship, and maybe she could be in this relationship for security,.

Honestly, I know you love her but she seems to be causing you more heartache than happiness, your so worried about her happiness and concerned about her wellbeing that you are accepting this behavior.. forgetting what you deserve, Trying to ignore someone else behavior is settling. You may love her but love yourself enough to realize this is an unhealthy relationship and perhaps focus more on yourself... If you accepted this behavior from the beginning its pretty hard to try to convince someone to change... Try changing yourself first its hard, imagine trying to change someone else almost impossible... Perhaps you need to let her go for your own sanity she needs to be alone so she can get her life straight...

First if this girl has "black out" sex with random strangers, I don't understand why she continues to allow herself to be put into situations where that can happen, especially if she has a man at home. Not to mention single or not.. its dangerous. If you can't trust yourself to behave a certain way then how can anyone else can. Sounds like spinning in a downwards spiral. Its hard enough to be completely OK when your man or girl goes out without you it sure as hell hard to be OK when you know that there is a 50-50 chance that she will black out and do something or "someone" and then not remember it,

As far as the lying, your right. Why lie? Because even if her intention was to be honest with you she made herself look like she had something to hide. Sounds like your at the end of your rope with her.

Believe me there are plenty of woman out there that are deserving of your love and they of yours. You will find her. Everyone deserves to be happy.

InSearchofAnswers, I'm interested in why you think she lies. What do you think the reason is. You can be totally honest here.

What part of "move on" don't you understand ? I ,ve personally been there and done that more than once and still feel like a damned fool for not "moving on" sooner ! Get a life with a clean wife. Usually you don't find a life partner in a bar . It sounds "square",but the finest chicks are at the church.

we hit it off great, and then once we got serious she told me she lost her virginity to rape

and then she refused to stop talking to old f-buddies. i dont think she meets up with them, but she continues covert emails, etc ...

i even went as far as to go to a rape therapist myself to encourage her to join me

no dice

and fwiw, she doesnt currently have a drinking problem per se, she rarely drinks now, but when she does she really ties one on.

and she has such as good heart, but some of her thought processes seem a little warped top me. she seems to be religious about keeping everyone on the same level - me, old exes, whoever. no one takes priority over another.

how is that fair to me? she can't see it

to make matters more complicated, she lives with me and she makes close to zero money. i moved far away from fam and friends to be here with her, and my job is really going great, but if we are here together, it seems like a bad move on my part. and i dont know how the whole living situation will pan out ...
Sounds to me like you want her to be something she is not and she is not wanting to be what you want her to be. So again the question is not her lies, but "Why are YOU still there" If she makes you unhappy, if you don't trust her, leave!
But don't put her bad points out there for all to see and then stay with her. Don't enable her bad behavior by putting up with it and don't try to change and control her, LEAVE!

InSearchofAnswers, I'm interested in why you think she lies. What do you think the reason is. You can be totally honest here.

her excuse was 'she didn't lie, she just didn't recognize the name'... later she said she didn't want to tell me they are friends and coworkers and it worry me, so she was protecting me. She hangs out with him just like she hangs out with everyone else. I have a gut feeling she lies aobut stuff like this more than I know simply to avoid any questions I may have or to avoid some argument.

I've never been a jealous BF at all. Quite the opposite acutally. But this girl has this thing - this 'no man can tame me attitude' and I thinks it stems from her rape years ago.

but backtracking to a couple of months ago when she balcked out out of town with her best girlfriend and that girls ex: I told her its BS she didn't tell me she was crashing with some random guy (her friends ex) and that I couldn't understand why she didn't want to tell me her friend and her BF (now her xBF) had broken up... her excuse, again, was she didn't want me to worry that them breaking up would mean we would break up. That's retarded, but whatever. I don't see how that affects us. Plus, I'm always telling her about my friends' marriages and relationships. I thought that's what couples do...

and she is a very nice girl, she's very sweet, she's very pretty... its just that she drives me crazy with her positions on ceertain things. If we could get rid of the ex talk, so much would improve. Now the recent hiding info or keeping guys from me worries me.

First if this girl has "black out" sex with random strangers, I don't understand why she continues to allow herself to be put into situations where that can happen, especially if she has a man at home. Not to mention single or not..its dangerous. If you can't trust yourself to behave a certain way then how can anyone else can. Sounds like spinning in a downwards spiral.


Again... out of my scope of understanding, but when we first met she had this 'full disclosure' thing where she would bring up old friends - who she at some point sept with - or old BF or old friends with benefits over and over... I told her many many times it bothers me to hear it. I know it has happened. I know we have both had sex. But why rub it in my face? To her, she honestly said she couldn't figure out why it bothered me since it didn't bother her. Not would it bother her to hear my stories. But her insistence bothered me. I tried to tell her - I'm her BF so my feelings should matter. That's what gets me.

And the full disclosure thing encompased her rape and then her 1st two years of school. She went to a few keg parties and drank too much, blacked out, barely remembers banging a guy. It has happened later in life with someone who she dated... you get the picture. That's all I was told about BTW

And fwiw she hates the term 'slut'... she thinks its BS that girls are called sluts. She gives off this antirelationship vibe and exudes the 'i screw like a man' persona sometimes, but she's vulnerable and sweet underneath it all...

OK, well, I can only suggest you keep in mind that the reason you date is to find out how this girl (that you already like, so that's not at issue) really behaves with people she gets close to.

I always say that we save our worst behaviors for people we are closest to. So the closer you two get, the more "real" she will become. You get to decide THEN if this is what you want to put up with in your most important permanent relationship, your marriage.

You don't have to. Liking her, even liking her a LOT, is no reason to make it permanent. Only that she makes your life better. Don't blind yourself over these things, they are more important than anything you consider about her so far.

Its tough

I don't like to think that I'm being used intentionally, and I think sometimes her way of thinking is a direct result of her rape... I could be off base there, but her 'manish' way she treats sex (and has told me about her conquest) makes me believe that she is compensating for what happened to her. I guess after a while, compensation became natural.

For about 4 months there we drifted apart. I had gone to a therapist to seek help for our problem, she said she was going but never did. I was shut off emotionally after this and she picked up on it. She could tell her lack of effort affected us and we didn't have sex during this time... not that I can remember. She apologized and said she realized she dropped the ball, but - and tell me if I'm off base here - I told her that I had brought up that problem over a year ago and she should have addressed it then, not now. After 13 months I kind of had to solve the problem myself and get used to it. It seems shutting myslef down and giving her the cold shoulder was the only thing that got her attention

Yesterday I was a little consumed with this problem as I was just finguring our she was hiding something. Today I have been a little down but I'm trying to get the right attitude. I have girls who have expressed interest in me. Nice/pretty girls. I just love the connection I have with my GF when we are seeing eye to eye. Unfortunately that hasnet been happening a lot lately.

My sister told me to separate and make her miss me. Make her miss my security, etc. and make her appreciate all that I do for her. That's easier said than done.

Thanks for the replies



One more question: does the avg girl sleep with a few of her guy friends over the cousre of her young adult life? I know it happens on se and the city, but in real life, what are the stats?

What's the avg no of parters a 25 yo guy and a 25 yo woman have?

How, typically, does rape affect someone?

You cannot make this girl miss you or change her to be what you want her to be. She may already appreciate you, but the fact is she has problems that she may not be ready to deal with and you can't handle them either. You two are just not a match. Staying and try to use tricks to change her is only going to alienate her.
She is not the one for you and you are not the one for her. You need to move on.
She is not your problem, your problem is this need of yours to rescue and change her despite the pain she causes you, and she does this to you because you let her, so why should she change or care.

InSearchofAnswers,

I have sympathy for your girl here. I mean, I know people who have been raped, and it definitely has a big affect on people, and I commend you as a guy for being able to be sympathetic about it, because a lot of guys just don't know or don't care...

And I don't think you should necessarily assume she would cheat on you; I think you're probably spot-on in thinking she does this kind of thing to try and maintain some kind of power balance with you. She doesn't want you to think you have too much power over her (which may even mean that, really, you mean more to her than you know... or not)

I don't think you need to make her feel bad about herself for her choices -for wanting to remain friends with exes, or for wanting to tell you about her history, say. That's really a personal choice thing. I've dated guys who were much more open about that kind of stuff than I was, and ultimately I just decided that if I trusted the person, that kind of stuff (being best friends with an ex, etc.) shouldn't bother me. I mean, people are people and friends are friends, and in a society with fewer taboos surrounding sex, hopefully they wouldn't be any less so just because you've had sex with them...

But I also agree with the other posters that say that she may not meet your needs, and you have as much right to break up with her for that. In fact, you're probably not helping her if you're visibly unhappy a lot -martyrdom in a relationship is generally not practical or healthy. I wouldn't necessarily think your way is better, or that everything she does is just because she's "messed up" from a traumatic experience -I think that's over-simplifying. But you might just say to her: "I do x, y, z for you because you matter to me. I need you to do x, y, z for me... and when you do v, w instead it hurts me. This relationship just isn't working for me. If we can't compromise on this issue, I think we're not compatible, and it would be best to end this relationship to allow us to search for more compatible people..." Something like that. Something very honest and straightforward, where she won't feel like you're blaming her or accusing her of being "broken" or something...

Make sense?

86

1st - thank you for your response. It's a complicated situation as you can see and I hate to read the "just get over it and move on posts"... I know those mean well, but its not that simple.

Im sure this whole situation isn't 100% due to the rape. I am smart enough to know that any traumantic event of any nature can affect how one thinks. Im sure losing ones virginity to rape/date rape can and problably has affected her approcah to sex. She's even told me so (random balclout sex when she was young and depressed in college).

But my point is she isn't fully aware how far that poison has spread into other areas of her mind. I don't blame her, and I don't pity her. I have respect for her being strong, but when she crosses certain lines that go from "strong" to "offfensive" (to me) it bothers me. I know she has had casual relatinships. I have too. I have told her this. My point is that I prefer not to hear it. I don't want to hear her talk up this great, super hot guy she met on a batchelorette party and randomly slept with for 6 weeks. What does that bring to the relationship? It doesn't paint a pretty picture and how does that help bring us closer? It doesn't - just the opposite. The real issue for me was she would do that over and over... finally I had to throw a fit and tell her STOP!! She did, but she didn't get it.

and I went to the therapist in an effort to learn how to politley speak about it and how to effectively communicate. I don't know one guy who would have gone through that so early in the relationship. I deemed her worthy. I respect her, but I expect respect back. I think that's only fair.

If she is hiding this guy to 'protect me' and nothing is going on, then she is actually hurting us. I told her this. Me catching her in lies doesn't help us at all and she realizes it but I guess when she gets back in town (shes currently out of town working - has been for a while now)...

and I don't make her feeel bad about her ex contact. The guys in mind were flings that lasted for a very short time (I don't consider that an ex). I just let her know it bothers me. And until very recently, she has told me "they contact me to see what im up to, so i contact them back" and overall I "show her problems but never give her solutions" so essentially she's sidestepping the fact that she could halt all the chatter... the real issue (for me) was 1. is this the rapes effects? 2. why does she have this 'need' to continue these relationships and 3. most importantly, why doesn't she put any effort into helping me solve our problems?

Well, here are a few more things to think about:

Could be she's "playing games" to try and make you jealous, which is supposed to make you more into her/compete for her attention. As a young woman, I've gotten advice to do this from various older men and women both... Not sure that it's ever worked, though.

Could be something a little less conventional. Like here's a personal story (in brief): I had kind of a casual fling with a guy for a couple of months. Then he met someone he wanted as a girlfriend, and I found out first through a second-hand source. I was hurt and a little pissed, so I was fairly surprised when he asked me if we could stay in touch. Truth was though, I'd always felt a pretty strong connection to him, especially in a friendly way, so I decided to do it. So yes, I am still attracted to him, but also if I ever had a boyfriend who wanted me to cut off connection with this guy altogether I'd tell him to shove it; because to me, that's crossing my boundaries.

Could be she's not looking for any particular reaction from you, but rather /she/ wants to maintain contact with these people; or simply she prefers to have multiple guys she's attracted to in her life in some capacity, and it's not something she's willing to compromise for your sake.

Could be she's testing you. Maybe she wants to know that you trust her enough to not flip out over knowing she keeps contact with these people. Maybe she wants to really feel like you'll stick with her for the longhaul before she starts to invest herself more in you.

Or as suggested above, it could be purely a control thing, which could be partially due to having been raped. Or it could be combinations thereof. If she won't tell you /why/ she does it and she won't stop, I think you may just have to accept it as a part of her which she may or may not change over time, and you have to decide whether you can want to be with her as a whole.

As to your #3 I totally agree that is an issue. Which is why I suggested laying out the facts for her in the manner presented in my post above.

I see a whole bunch of wrong in this post, and people probably won't agree with me on this subject. I have NEVER believed in that whole "so drunk I did this" crap. If you can't control your alcohol, then don't drink. Personally I think she is using the drinking as an excuse to run around being a tramp and I would put money on the fact she has cheated on you before.

Second, she lies because you will believe them and she doesn't think it's a big deal anymore. She's become so good at it that she actually believes them herself.

I have gotten really drunk myself(just turned 21 in August) so I know how that is, but NEVER have I even hooked up with someone and didn't remember it. If you want to stay with her, be my guest but it's only going to continue. She should really chose her friends better(girls I know wouldn't let their friend do that stuff)

I won't even touch the rape subject right now, too early. But I don't think the behavior she is exhibiting right now fits well with someone who has been raped before(I could be wrong)

Sorry I'm so grumpy this morning guys, and don't take the post as being too critical, I am just tired of the drunk excuse from people

I won't even touch the rape subject right now, too early. But I don't think the behavior she is exhibiting right now fits well with someone who has been raped before(I could be wrong)

You are wrong. A lot of the behavior she exhibits fits someone who was raped. She is acting out and she probably has a drinking problem. But he is enabling her by allowing her to disrespect him. He puts up with it and then complains. He should "pee or get off the pot", put up with it or leave her. But to say she is "really a nice person" while at the same time telling people about her bad behavior then patting himself on the back for putting up with it is not right.

After looking up the information, it appears it goes either way, so I was not wrong, just not completely right. So I do apologize for making that assumption, but I do fully think he is using that as an excuse to kind of justify her behavior. She needs to seek counseling for this or it's never going to end

After looking up the information, it appears it goes either way, so I was not wrong, just not completely right. So I do apologize for making that assumption, but I do fully think he is using that as an excuse to kind of justify her behavior. She needs to seek counseling for this or it's never going to end
I agree.

Romefalls,

There are not only two ways people can react to rape. People can react in many, many different ways, depending on individual differences. And also, different people recover at different rates.

I don't think it's accurate to say he's "enabling" her, because that indicates he has some ability to control her that perhaps he should be using, which in fact, he doesn't and he shouldn't... Fundamentally, rape is about control -it's about someone taking away someone else's ability to make choices about their own body. A crucial element to recovery of rape for most people is learning to reassert control over their own life and body in some form or another (this from someone trained to aid survivors of sexual assault). This is something many survivors have difficulty doing -which is why many survivors are prone to falling into abusive relationships, where their partner controls them too much.

For all any of us know, the things she's doing now are helping her to work through her issues, and she will reach where she needs to be to be happier with her own life in her own time. Ultimately though, she has to make her own decisions, and all anyone else can do is provide support, or let her know if the things she's doing are causing them to feel hurt.

Not to mention, according to what InSearch said, the only truly dangerous element to her behavior (blackout sex) is something she hasn't done for awhile.

I don't think she's deliberately disrespecting him, so much as it's her needs are different than his at this time (i.e. if she had her way, both of them would have more freedom and less of an overwhelming role in the other's life than he wants them to have). Counseling might help her, but of course no one can force her to go, and counseling isn't the only way to get better; also, counseling wouldn't guarantee that she would decide to act the way he wants her to act.

And Romefalls, it is absolutely NOT OKAY to just /assume/ someone is lying.

To clarify, I was referring specifically to your comment that she was cheating on him, Rome. Not the small things that he /knows/ she lied about. (I mean, IMO she should be able to be friends with whoever she wants to -yeah it's odd she feels a need to lie about it, but at the same time if she felt like the inquisition was after her maybe she felt defensive)

So basically what you're telling me is you think it's okay for her to go and sleep around? That's destructive behavior and anyone who says that's okay to do, is a moron.

Also, if you read his opening line in the post... He caught her in lies, so please do tell how in the blue hell was I "assuming" she lied? Please read the posts before posting your opinions. And had you read the post below Homegirl, I apologized for saying that's the only way someone could reacted, which is where I also put "(I could be wrong)" and after I put that, I went and researched the topic. And thus retracted my previous statement about the rape.

I never said she definitely did, I just said I would put money on that she has because of her behavior that the POSTER describe. People in committed relationships do not behave that way and I'm pretty sure the majority of the forum members will agree on the fact that she is exhibiting the signs of a cheater. Hiding who the guy was on myspace(FLAG), Lying about who she was with a few weekends ago(FLAG)... But hey, if you don't considering them flags, that's your belief my friend

In your first post you were more or less "assuming" that she lied about having cheated on him (you don't bet on something unless you're pretty confident it's true -well, unless you don't like money I guess). Pretty simple, from what I can tell.

And who, praytell, gets to decide what does and does not qualify as "sleeping around"? This is a country with a lot of diverse practices, and I refuse to get in some kind of puritanical moral debate with you.

When sex is bad is A) when it's not done safely (with protection, etc.), and B) if it leaves a person feeling worse about life in general, or when they are hurting someone such as a partner who has been promised monogamy. "Sleeping around" is not inherently destructive, and I am not at all a moron (well, at least according to our national academic standards). There are people who engage in behaviors you might call "sleeping around" and do it with respect for themselves and others and who feel perfectly fine about themselves and life in general afterwards. It's totally on an individual basis, and you can't make such generalized statements.

And I agree there's something to the lying about these guys she's friends with. But why, I wonder, was IKnows asking her about them, and although he doesn't think he's a jealous boyfriend, is it possible she perceives things a little differently? All I'm saying is that you have to look at things on an individual basis... and I provided several possible explanations above that didn't have to involve "she's cheating"

i have talked my head off about this. already told her i couldnt justify taking our relationship to the next level if she didnt lose the Xs ... she didnt budge

I think you know what you should do, Her past she needs to get help own her own and can't use it to justify her behavior with every thing she does, If she is refusing to seek help how can she then turn around and use it as an excuse for her behavior, Sure there are women who are raped and behave in such ways as she does, but she needs to seek professional help and realize that this was a terrible thing, but its time to move on with one's life in THE RIGHT direction.



her excuse was that she didnt want to put undo pressure on me since i was inbetweeen jobs at the time


Since when is she really concerned about your emotions? She didn't want to put pressure on you but unfortanetely she is still holding on to the ex's... Sounds to me that you need to pause, STOP trying to help someone that doesn't want to be helped, and help yourself, And you can't continue to use her past to allow her to treat you the way she does. I know you want to be there for her, but don't allow her to bring you down in the process. If she doesn't want your help or HELP period there is no more you can do.. You can still love her from a distance

"Her past she needs to get help own her own and can't use it to justify her behavior with every thing she does,"

I don't think /she's/ using it to justify her behavior. I think /he's/ speculating that it might affect her behavior. (that was the impression I got from his posts)

"Her past she needs to get help own her own and can't use it to justify her behavior with every thing she does,"

I don't think /she's/ using it to justify her behavior. I think /he's/ speculating that it might affect her behavior. (that was the impression I got from his posts)



"she has an excuse for everything.

Okay lets forget she was raped and exclude this out and go solely on her behavior.. My point is that he can't change her, and had he not known about her past he would probably not accept this behavior. My point is that its unfortanate that this happened, and she may perhaps be doing these things subconsciously.. But the reality is that he shouldn't be sticking around because he feels bad for her past, This is a very touchy subject, and everyone pyschologically is affected differently. However, if she mentioned it to him she wants him to know, but then she refuses to get help, and continue to act the way she does, Understand there is nothing he CAN DO he can either stick around and complain about it, Leave and be quiet about it, or just accept the way things are, and not try to change her. The end

I wish I could find someone who wants, and deserves, my love...
She does, what she does, and either accept her for what she is, or move your life to another level. After two years, she hasn't changed, or has even been willing, take that as a fact, and deal with it, and stop trying to make her be someone she doesn't want to be. No shame in breaking up, just because your not a good fit. But it's a shame to stay, and HOPE, she changes. Love yourself, enough to realize, its her right to do as she pleases, and your right to make yourself happy. She ain't the one to make you happy. You can end all this confusion, and speculation, just by MAKING A DECISION, AND STICKING TO IT. Just me I'm long gone.

I don't think it's accurate to say he's "enabling" her, b/c that indicates he has some ability to control her that perhaps he should be using, which in fact, he doesn't and he shouldn't... .
He is enabling her in that he allows her to continue in behavior destructive to the relationship and continues to make excuses for her sticks with her puts up with it. It is saying to her, "it's OK to do this and treat me this way". Enabling is not controlling, but allowing a person to continue in their behavior even though you don't like it or think it's dangerous. It's like a person who makes excuses for an alcoholic, provides them with what they need knowing their behavior is destructive.

Okay lets forget she was raped and exclude this out and go solely on her behavior.. My point is that he can't change her, and had he not known about her past he would probably not accept this behavior. My point is that its unfortanate that this happened, and she may perhaps be doing these things subconsciously.. But the reality is that he shouldn't be sticking around because he feels bad for her past, This is a very touchy subject, and everyone pyschologically is affected differently. However, if she mentioned it to him she wants him to know, but then she refuses to get help, and continue to act the way she does, Understand there is nothing he CAN DO he can either stick around and complain about it, Leave and be quiet about it, or just accept the way things are, and not try to change her. The end



"Her past she needs to get help own her own and can't use it to justify her behavior with every thing she does,"

I don't think /she's/ using it to justify her behavior. I think /he's/ speculating that it might affect her behavior. (that was the impression I got from his posts)

She doesn't justify her behavior due to rape... she - imo - can't see how the rape has affected her thinking at all.

one thing is for sure: she taking me for granted. I told her in an email this moring that I do everything for her and expect just a little grattitude in exchange. From my point of view she does the bare minimum to keep this relationship going.

she's still out of town, but when she returns, I'm going to put an end to it. I haven't fully decided if I'm going to break our lease and move out (she lives here, and with her $ situation, she can't afford an apt).

and that ^^ only complicates things since I know she will resent me for putting the rent burden on her shoulders.

fwiw, there is a lot of love in this relationship even though I have ranted about the problems. However it is obvious that her career is what's most important to her now.

You could... live with her until the lease is up. I know it's never fun living with an ex, but I know a number of couples who've done this due to financial reasons.

Does your lease allow for subletting though?

again ... out of my scope of understanding, but when we first met she had this 'full disclosure' thing where she would bring up old friends - who she at some point sept with - or old BF or old friends with benefits over and over ... i told her many many times it bothers me to hear it. i know it has happened. i know we have both had sex. but why rub it in my face? to her, she honestly said she couldnt figure out why it bothered me since it didnt bother her. not would it bother her to hear my stories. but her insistance bothered me. i tried to tell her - im her BF so my feelings should matter. Thats what gets me.

And the full disclosure thing encompased her rape and then her 1st two years of school. She went to a few keg parties and drank too much, blacked out, barely remembers banging a guy. It has happened later in life with someone who she dated ... you get the picture. Thats all i was told about BTW

and fwiw she hates the term 'slut' ... she thinks its BS that girls are called sluts. She gives off this antirelationship vibe and exudes the 'i screw like a man' persona sometimes, but shes vulnerable and sweet underneath it all ...

InSearchOfAnswers, I think its normal to talk about one anothers past. Past relationships, past expierences but I think there comes to a certain point, especially sexual experiences when you really don't want to hear the for the millionth time how they banged 2 guys (or girls) in one night, how good it was. I don't blame you. My fiancée has had a lenghty past of that stuff, and although In the beginning I didn't mind as much to hear about it because I was curious, I don't really want to hear about it much anymore. Especially when he brings it up and I don't ask him to. I don't have a past like he does. I've only been with 2 men my whole life so in my case I can't compare to his. Its normal to feel that way. If it doesn't bother her then fine. That could depend on if you talk about your past often, if you don't then she may not care as much. If it bothers you as much as you say it does then she should probably chill out with it even if a little.

I know you said she was raped, but that, I would think would make her think about doing what she's been doing. Meaning, if she's putting herself in an environment or situations that something like that could happen again then why? And whether people think she's a "slut" or not, If she's exuding "i screw like a man" vibe and projecting that behavior while she's out, men are going to think that's who she is, regardless if she's sweet and vulnerable with you. I think her behavior just sounds like its causing a lack of trust, and although I'm sure she's a great person she may not be girlfriend material if that's what your looking for.

InSearchOfAnswers, does her "sweet and vulnerable' personality out way her destructive behavior. I think that's really what you need to ask yourself.

I know you said she was raped, but that, I would think would make her think about doing what shes been doing. Meaning, if she's putting herself in an environment or situations that something like that could happen again then why? And wether people think she's a "slut" or not, If shes exuding "i screw like a man" vibe and projecting that behavior while shes out, men are going to think thats who she is, regardless if shes sweet and vulnerable with you. I think her behavior just sounds like its causing a lack of trust, and although im sure shes a great person she may not be gf material if thats what your looking for.


BG

thanks for the replies ... to address the quote above, i always admired her strong-willed nature, but then as i got to know her i was curious if her vibe was due to her nature or nurture - did the rape cause this or is that just her? perhaps i harped too much on the rape when i found out about it. i dont know. i do know it was nearly impossible for me to comprehend that. im a nice guy. i couldnt rape anyone. it really angered me to learn someone did this to the girl i love ... but i will get more intothe possible "cause" below..


i have an update for everyone and would like to see what you think. and some more background info


my girl and i have been apart for 2.5 months now. she had to go on a long biz trip, so all of this couldnt have come at a worst time. add the 'coworker' mess to it and it really got to me...

but i did something i probably should have done a year ago - i called her best friend for help. my GF doesnt have a lot of GFs, as she seems to get along better with guys. shes very pretty, but she grew up a tomboy idolizing her big brother. so this friend is the only window into her mind lately and it was an eye opener

fwiw, this is what i do know: our relationship needs a communication overhaul. when i spoke with her best friend she told me my GF had been beside herself for the last 5 months she was so upset with the status of our relationship. i guess in the beginning of 07 when i though getting engaged was going to be a great move for us, our relationship took a step back when i asked her abaout the ex contact and why she 'needs' to keep in contact with old flings... call me an immature male or ridicule my fragile male ego id you will (haHA) but the manner in which she brazenly kept contact bothered me. My exes are exes for a reason. I dont seek them out nor do i email or converse with them at length ... but i guess thats just me.

...i couldnt figure out why she 'needed' this but it made me feel like there was something either i wasnt providing or something she was lacking due to the rape years ago... im no shrink, but i made the assumption that her need to keep them in her life was possibly the laten effects of sexual trauma ... but im sure her openness about her past and the guys just in the rear view didnt put my mind at ease. it made me feel oddly lacking and my perception of her was that she was possibly warped in some sense and wasnt even aware. maybe i overthought the whole thing, but marriage is a big step and i want to do it right. in retrospect, im glad i waited as its best IMO to get the bugs out b/f the nuptials.

i even told her friend that i was already shopping for rings and had my mom/sis/dad all weigh in. it was going to be beautiful and unique. her friend was nearly in tears when i told her. apparently my GF had no clue (which is what i wanted)

anyway, when i spoke with her friend she was very glad to speak with me and asked me what was going on with us. when i learned that my GF had been very upset it was A TOTAL SHOCk to me ... it still is. i couldnt understand why she didnt come to me (or come to me in a more direct way) or that i didnt pickup on it .

her friend also told me that my GF was estcatic with us when we were clicking - we were such a great match for each other. But that before the 'real trouble' started 6 months ago. Her friend told me that around this time she was talking wedding and engagement rings. again - ANOTHER SHOCK. this was even a shock to her friend since my GF has NEVER mentioned marriage to her about any guy she has dated. My GFs friend was blown away.

So anyway, when i was planning all of this, i wanted to ask my GF to lose the exes and focus on us. I didnt understand why the contact was so important, even if it was random emails or the rare call. But she told me that my job situation wasnt the best and that she didnt see anything wrong with her talking to them, even if it did visbly bother me. my perception: she didnt want to take the next step yet since she was still 'involved' (for lack of a btter word) with ppl from her past. (i think i have mentioned to the board that when my GF and i discussed why she talks with the guys from her past and that it bothered to the point where i wanted the issues resolved before we took the realtionship to the next step. she told me she didnt see anything wrong with it and that we shouldnt go that route yet since i was working crap job at the time. But i already had the money and the ring and the location lined up ...my misperception: she was stalling.

I even went to a rape therapist by myself in an effort to get her to join me. i was trying to go the extra mile to fix us and i got the vibe that she didnt care. recently, she told me she now can appreciate my effort and that she felt she had already dealt with it so it was my problem and i should deal with it... not us. but now she admits that was wrong.

but during that time i felt she didnt want to work through our problems. couple that with the delayed engagment and i will admit that i got a little resentful and mad since we had talked openly of our love and how neither of us believed in soulmates b/f we met, but we agreed that love hit both of us like a ton of bricks. (it was great. i really miss those times.) So I went back to to my very excited parents and told them it wasnt the right time. that was a tough day for me... i was very confused and hurt. i just wish i would have talked it out more at that time

Well I spoke about that infamous 'ex talk' yesterday with my GF and the reality of that conversation was she didnt want to put any undue pressure on me since i was working a shtty job for a few months. my emphasis was that 'im working a shtty job" meaning that it was making an engagment that much harder. same topic, same argument, completely opposite points of view... and both of us had good intentions. i felt like sht, and yesterday i wanted to tell her that during that time i had already planned our engagment but then i thought that wasnt what she wanted and she was getting cold feet, but i knew that wouldnt be fair to her, even though i wanted to clear the air b/w us

also, during the conversation with my GFs friend, she conceded that my GF does indeed keep in contact with exes, but she pointed out that she keeps everyone close, not just exes. Her thinking: my GF has abandonment issues. That actually makes sense. My GFs parents split when she was 6 and she moved around a lot and then went to boarding school. her childhood is the exact opposite of mine: i have the same core group of great friends now that i had in K-1. Many of us went through college together. My family is large and intact, hers is not. Maybe we just process things so differently its nearly impossible to see it from the others POV...


heres the kicker though. during the recent heart to heart with my GF over the phone and she seems so distant and removed now... emotionless. i began the conversation apologizing for my behavior (my 'coldness' when i shut down abt 5 months ago) but tried to tell her in a nice way i was only reacting to things that i perceived that she had "done" ... i tried to say that i misread her a year ago and that my misperceptions eventually lead to me becoming distant. (FWIW, when i did put up walls at that time, i was hurt and felt like she didnt care about us and wasnt going to put forth the effort to work on our problems, so it was very frustrating). She has admitted to overlooking my feeling at times and she appreciates my past efforts, but now she seems hung up on calling BS on my reason for shutting down. she feels im really putting the balme on her (and IMO she does need to share the blame)

so as im saying this, she is being sarcastic and says stuff like "i know im a terrible girlfriend. i dont care. im awful. " and then she says shes tired of me blaming my 'coldness' on her actions. she really emphasized this: she acted selfishly, i tried to help us , she didnt join in, so i shut down ... but she gets mad b/c she says im trying to say i am in the clear since we can blame everything on her initial actions (or lack thereof).

she did put herself and her career 1st at times, but if we had read each other better, or communicated better, i feel llike a lot of this could have been avoided.

so i offer an apology and tell her i was wrong to be cold to her, that i ahd made mistakes, that we need to work on some thing, and if we do it togethrt then i think we can get back to where we were. however she still seems mad and bitter ... distant. she has a 'we'll see' attitude and i address that with her yesterday, politely asking her to put down her walls since i have put down mine. she says shes still mad and that "oh, now we are going to put everything behind us ... NOW we are" so its like we are in a push-pull cycle. i feel like im chasing my tail now.

and to bring it all full circle, her friend told me she wouldnt think my GF would cheat on me and didnt know why my GF would act that way about a guy (but of course she would say that) ... maybe my GF was keeping something from me. maybe there isnt anything going on. who knows. i would like to believe that we have been faithful to each other, but that the tough times, not someone else, have caused this void to form between us. but i did want to give the baord the full scoop on the last 13 months. the 'white lies' pissed me off, but who knows what stemmed them? common miscommunication? shady behavior? i dont know the answer. i do know that i hate the fact she was so open about her past and i wish that i ahd called her friend months ago. the insight she gave me was priceless. i had no idea she cared about us and our direction like she obviouslt does.
im hoping when she returns we can work it out, but if shes too far gone, maybe its all happening for a reason.

thanks in advance for the feedback

Time to go fishing for 3 days, and mull this over.

Too much drama, this is going to go nowhere. Abandonment issues? Normally, when people always abandon you, you become real cautious as to what people you maintain close contacts with, not the other way around.

Plus, I wouldn't believe a thing her girlfriend is telling you, it will all go back to her. I have been in your shoes always hoping for the positive, but she's no good, do yourself a favor and go nc, and forget her. She has too many issues and is immature, you'll find someone better.

'nc'
?

You need to give her an ultimatum black out drinking with friends or you. She is not going to change for you. I get the feeling you are just another boyfriend in her line up of bf's she has accumulated through the years. She probably sees you as not being the final one either.
She is doing whatever she can get away with and then hoping that when you find out you will think it has been weeks or months so 'water under the dam' and not concern yourself with her behavior. BUT she is having these black outs so how do you know what she actually did or did not do? AND is she having these 'black outs' to conveniently avoid and cover up things she doesn't want to admit to?
She is saying whatever she has to to string you along.

You need to take a good look at yourself, sounds like your co-dependent;)

This is just way too much drama. This relationship sounds very one-sided to me. You are more serious than she is and I'm not understanding why you let her walk all over you and treat you with such disregard.
You need to leave this women alone. You two are not on the same page on anything. Marriage is totally out of the question.

Just FYI

We have talked a few times about the topics above

We both agree that we have grossly miscommunicated over the recent months

She has agreed to go to a counselor/shrink for the rape issues as well as couples therapy

I have told her we need to meet in the middle on a lot of different areas or we just aren't going to work

We'll see what happens. I'm trying to be open minded but also keep my guard up and look out for me. If it works out, it works out. If it doesn't, it wasn't meant to be. But at least I can now walk away knowing I've given this my best shot.

I think the most obvious thing in this long story is that your GF is not ready for marriage. She doesn't really appear healthy enough for a long term relationship. Whether it was the rape or other influences growing up, she has a problem connecting to one person – you. If the rape was committed by someone she trusted then it is easy to see why she can't commit. She did it and looked what happened. That's why I believe she hangs on to the exes – they're backup when you bail on her.

Her reluctance to see a counselor makes me think that she really hasn't tamed the demons of her past and also that she fears being discovered an alcoholic. Perhaps a single occurrence, years ago, might be overlooked but repeated binge drinking to the point of blacking out is a problem. It's also a convenient excuse to try to explain away bad behavior. It wasn't my fault – I was drunk!

I'm of a different generation than you. My only sex partner is my husband of 22 years, so I really can't understand the sex chatter of previous relationships. I can understand having a frank discussion about past relationships so everyone knows where they stand, but reliving a fling with a former lover in front of the person you claim to have a serious relationship is Just Plain Tacky. How is a person supposed to respond to something like that?

Hope it all works out for you, I would like to say something regarding the topic but I feel I'll say something that I may regret in the near future..

She did it and looked what happened. That's why I believe she hangs on to the exes – they're backup when you bail on her.

That's where it gets confusing. She told me about her past relationships and I can tell she's not one to 'backslide' into them again. She sees every fling/relationship/encounter as this freeze-frame in time and she 'treasures' each snapshot. My words, not hers, but that's the gist. She used to poenly contact/reply to old lovers in front of me, so when I let her know that bothered me, she was dumb-struck. "Why?" was the usual dumbfounded response. Its like she needs it on an emotional level and sees the conncetion not as a sexual one, even if the relationship was very shortlived and what I would call a meaningless fling. There's the confusion

A snapshot in time to keep forever but move on to other things. She's a self-proclaimed 'nomad' (my words) since she has a 'roots phobia' (her words) when it comes to settling down in one place/town for an extended time... she attributes this to moving around so much as a kid. From my point of view it seems this has bled into her relationship domain as well





Her reluctance to see a counselor makes me think that she really hasn't tamed the demons of her past and also that she fears being discovered an alcoholic. Perhaps a single occurrence, years ago, might be overlooked but repeated binge drinking to the point of blacking out is a problem. It's also a convenient excuse to try to explain away bad behavior. It wasn't my fault – I was drunk!

w/o a doubt. She has let down her guard a few times to reveal that she's scared to go back down that road and talk about that night. And rightfully so. That's why I started going to the counselor ahead of her: to understand, show support, and make us going a reality. She sidestepped that issue and now regrets it and appreciates my efforts... we will see what comes of it all




reliving a fling with a former lover in front of the person you claim to have a serious relationship is Just Plain Tacky. How is a person supposed to respond to something like that?

I know what you mean. I told her more than a few times I could do the same, but what good would it do? I'm more respectful of her feelings than that. She just didn't get it then, but now she does (took her long enough!). Its not about her need/desire to tell me about some guy she hooked up with on a bachelorette party or whatever, its about my - the BFs - wishes to not be informed of such behavior. I should come first.

She has made the comment before that when she was in HS a teacher told her and another girl that they are 'treasures' and need to view themselves as such. And to expect a lucky guy to do the same. Her response was 'pshhh! Treasure? I'm no treasue. Haha that's absurd." in a sarcastic manner... so her retelling of this story gave some some kind of a view into her thinking. Maybe she told me those Ex stories as a way to brag? Maybe she was trying to 'soil her image' in my eyes? Maybe... may be... maybe... I've tried to figure that one out countless times

These two statements struck me:


She used to poenly contact/reply to old lovers in front of me, so when i let her know that bothered me, she was dumb-struck. "Why?" was the usual dumbfounded response.
And

She has made the comment before that when she was in HS a teacher told her and another girl that they are 'treasures' and need to view themselves as such. And to expect a lucky guy to do the same. her response was 'pshhh! treasure?! im no treasue. haha thats absurd." in a sarcastic manner ....

When I read this the first impression I get is that your GF has no inkling of the word respect. She has none for herself and none for anyone else. She apparently has no self-esteem, either.


Its like she needs it on an emotional level and sees the conncetion not as a sexual one, even if the relationship was very shortlived and what i would call a meaningless fling. theres the confusion

To me the need for the emotional attachment is more upsetting than if she was just doing whatever guy came by. Are you saying that she gets more emotionally out of the previous relationships/flings than she does from the flesh and blood man she cohabitates with?



im more respectful of her feelings than that. she just didnt get it then, but now she does (took her long enough!).

Do you honestly think she gets it? Could she be saying what you want to hear to get you to back off? That kind of behavior makes me think that she is acting out - to shock you and push you away.



Its not about her need/desire to tell me about some guy she hooked up with on a bachelorette party or whatever, its about my - the BFs - wishes to not be informed of such behavior. i should come first.

Again that boils down to respect. She also appears to have no empathy which is another thing to be very careful about. Is she able to acknowledge other people's feelings or should they see everything her way?

Only thing I can offer to you is please, please, please don't think about marriage or more importantly children. You don't want to be in a position of having to explain to a 3 year old an 6 year old why Mommy went out for a gallon of milk and never returned.

As I have said before, she is who she is and is not likely going to change.
You need to ask yourself why you continue to be willing to put up with her.
Love is one thing and self preservation and respect is another. You need to get to the point where you say enough is enough. I don't mean to sound cruel, but stop whining and leave.

I think the most obvious thing in this long story is that your GF is not ready for marriage. She doesn't really appear healthy enough for a long term relationship. Whether it was the rape or other influences growing up, she has a problem connecting to one person – you. If the rape was committed by someone she trusted then it is easy to see why she can't commit. She did it and looked what happened. That's why I believe she hangs on to the exes – they're backup when you bail on her.

Her reluctance to see a counselor makes me think that she really hasn't tamed the demons of her past and also that she fears being discovered an alcoholic. Perhaps a single occurrence, years ago, might be overlooked but repeated binge drinking to the point of blacking out is a problem. It's also a convenient excuse to try to explain away bad behavior. It wasn't my fault – I was drunk!

I'm of a different generation than you. My only sex partner is my husband of 22 years, so I really can't understand the sex chatter of previous relationships. I can understand having a frank discussion about past relationships so everyone knows where they stand, but reliving a fling with a former lover in front of the person you claim to have a serious relationship is Just Plain Tacky. How is a person supposed to respond to something like that?



Well... I think you are right *sigh*

I know many on here will be happy to hear its over.

Its sad that it took this long for all of this to come out... we drifted apart

She confessed to a lot of stuff and now has gone home to be with family and seek therapy. My world has been turned upside down.

The sad thing is once it was all over we talked. We talked for 7 hours on the phone going over why things bothered me, her boundary issues (or the fact she doesn't realize how to keep boundaries), her fear of abandonment and how that exacerbated my suspicious and insecurities... but maybe I developed them for a reason.

EVERYTHING I have brought up on this forum was open for discussion - her rape, her childhood, my confusion with her old flings and lovers... and much of it was resolved. It seems she was going to friends with our problems but she was too scared to come to me... she felt my same frustration. She cried to friends in secret. Yet I had no clue. I didn't think she cared.


I never wanted to tell her she's "damaged" I just wanted for us to be a better couple. And now that we are over, she is going to really try to change. It sucks because now I feel we have just begun to see each in a clear light...

And FWIW, I told her I support her decision to head home and that I will be there for her... call me an idiot, but I still see the good in her. I wish we could have reached each other b/f it came to this

"And FWIW, i told her i support her decison to head home and that i will be there for her... call me an idiot, but i still see the good in her. I wish we could have reached each other b/f it came to this"

I don't think you're an idiot.

You know I was one saying from the beginning that there were other possibilities besides "she doesn't care" That's one thing that drives me nuts about our culture -a lot of people believe that in a relationship there are only a few acceptable ways to act, and anything else means a person must be a player/tool/doesn't care etc. Lifes complicated, really. You got to take situations and people on an individual basis...

But sounds to me like breaking up still was what you needed at the time...

Over the last two weeks i have caught my GF in lies ...

I have asked her about a coworker that appeared on her myspace ... she acted funny and then said she didnt recognize the name or know who i was talking about

The we talked about a big weekend she had a month ago in a different city. She got so drunk with friends the night before that she didnt wake up/couldnt get up until 2 the next day. (She has told me about her past: she has had blackout sex with strangers a few times, so I think its understandalbe that i get uneasy when she does this out of town.)

So then she slipped up and said a guy was staying with her and her friend that weekend and that her friend who stayed with her that weekend has now broken up with her boyfriend. EVERY conversation we have had about that weekend she never once mentioned a guy or that her friend was shacking up with an ex. To me, this means shes hiding something.

Also, a few months before all of this, she got drunk at a bar with me and my friends and gave her nuber to a guy who was flirting with her. The next day she had no memory of it .. black out drunk yet again .. it was a kick to the balls to say the least.

And now that i have confronted her about her behavior, she tells me that she didnt want to worry me about that weekend out of town, and the guy on her myspace is a coworker she knows and works with ....

my question is why lie?

she has an excuse for everything. weve been dating for two years and live together. also, she seems to care about our relationship, but she makes it very clear she cares just as much about past relationships. to me, an ex is an ex. if its a longterm BF, i can understand that, but she hold on to guys (calls/emails) that she knew/had sex with for a month or two. she says that she cares that it botherers me, but says she wont do anything about it. *frustrating*

And now the lies. And Im thinking if i stumbled upon these lies, what else should i be concerned about? Im hating myself right now. I feel like such a fool. I know she has feelings for me, but i think we are two different people at htis point.

I wish i could find someone who wants, and deserves, my love ...
Well hmmm. It sounds first of all like she's a fun girl. Have you ever been drunk? I'm pretty sure that we're all guilty of drinking and having a good time. In the end, if your partner sees and talks with all temptations and still come home to YOU, then consider yourself lucky!! From a girls point of view, I can tell you this: When I go out, sometimes I know that I get a little too buzzed and let people get away with a little more flirting than they should. This doesn't mean anything physical, just simply accepting attention from people I know I shouldn't. At the end of they day, I feel guilty when I come home to my boyfriend. Why? What did I really do? Accept compliments? What do you boys do when you're out? Listen, being in a relationship hopefully makes us loyal, but not blind. If you act jealous about when you're girlfriend goes out, then you are going to make her feel like her normal behavior needs to be refined or limited. This is really quite impossible, so it is going to lead to awkward lies, even if the offense was nothing big. I used to feel guilty if I said hello and introduced myself to someone at a bar, even if I said that I had a boyfriend! Now, I realize that I'm allowed to have conversation and accept attention from other people, as long as I know who my love is. I have no temptation to do anythihg physical with other men, it just feels good to get attention sometimes. That's the truth about women - we are attention whores. If you limit us, we will lie - because one way or another, we're going to get it.

Thanks to you both... black and white respneses such as "move on" or "get over it" irk me because things aren't that easy, that simple... so I appreciate both of you taking the time to respond and realize the situation is very complicated.

Its ironic. After our talk, its like we have a better understanding of each other and are now closer... cheating or no cheating

I actually have more hope now than I have had the last 6 months... even though I know it's a long shot at best

Regardless, we will both be better people in the end

You are way different types of people, with different outlooks, and issues. One thing for sure, if a couple cannot communicate enough to solve their differences, and work together, to build a happy healthy relationship, it's a waste of time and energy. I think you have already held on to long.