I was going out with this guy once every week or two for a couple months. We really enjoyed hanging out and talking -we had lots of interests and values in common and he was good looking. There was an age gap though -I was closer to 20, he was closer to 30. A rather large experience gap when it came to relationships (I'm not a virgin -but only barely). We messed around a couple times though, and I thought things went swimmingly; we were fairly sexually compatible. And he acted like he wanted to continue seeing me, so of course I was disappointed when I discovered his blog while on vacation and learned that he'd just gone on a couple of dates with a woman (his age) that he was really into. The only reference he'd made to me was one day he wrote that he felt better when he could dedicate time to making out. I told him I found the blog when I got back, and he said before me he was in an intense relationship with a bad breakup and with me he'd enjoyed hanging with someone he was "comfortable with" without trying to build it up into anything, but now he'd met someone he "really liked" and he wasn't comfortable being physical with more than one person at a time so he wanted us to be "just friends" so he could date her. But then, he continued about once a week to chat with me, and he flirts and compliments me a little, even in front of his friends. Two months later I left to go to school on the other coast and he said he wanted to stay in touch and that he likes what he knows about me and hopes to get to know me better in the future. I don't know if he only ever foresees being "just friends" with me, or if he sort of likes-likes me, or if he just likes attention from women (he's polite and sensitive but also, I think, kind of vain). Since I've never had a boyfriend or girlfriend, I don't know if he ever liked me and I just didn't act interested/relationship-y enough for him to think our thing had any potential for more, or if he felt in control the whole time and just got what he wanted from me. I'm moving back to his city in two months for the summer, and from hints dropped on his blog I think the thing with him and the other woman didn't work out. How can I ask him what was/is up with his feelings towards me?

I have trouble imagining putting lots of energy into pleasing someone in an intimate way who you just felt "comfortable" with... but than I am admittedly relatively young and ignorant...

It really does sound like he just wants to be friends.

Yep I agree with CMomma , always remember "Actions speak louder than words"

Well, he /is/ e-mailing or IMing with me about once a week while I'm at school... and he's still kind of flirty, and sometimes joking about sexual issues, etc. If he truly has never felt at all romantically towards me... and just wanted a warm body for awhile, would I have a right to be mad at him because I feel like what he's doing now is kind of like teasing, if that were the case? Is it possible he just felt the strong vibe in terms of similar interests too, and is wanting to stay friends to see if it turns into something more? I thought one ex of his I met was well... not particularly better looking or cooler than me... and I know he was friends w/ her for awhile before they started going out...

Well you say he has a GF right now even though your not sure if it worked out , so why would you want to hang on and be his reserve , don't ever play second fiddle to anybody in my opinion.

You probably stroked his ego a bit by your being so young and since you gave it up, maybe he figures you're good for a good time. IMO, I think you should leave him alone before you end up hurt. He has an agenda and it's not a serious relationship

Well you say he has a GF right now even though your not sure if it worked out , so why would you want to hang on and be his reserve , don't ever play second fiddle to anybody in my opinion.

Well I guess, because to me it's unrealistic to expect that the first go around w/ anyone should forever determine the way you feel towards each other, especially when I felt like we were in the beginning stages of getting to know each other. I, for one, was a bit nervous the whole time and not particularly affectionate. I mean, I have a best friend with whom we basically hated each other for the first year we knew each other. And I know that with the guy in the OP, I was at first just kind of attracted, and it grew more w/ time. Oh and also... there is the "I wound up really liking him a lot" factor, which I suppose makes it easier to delude myself... he was basically the first guy w/ whom I could picture myself in some sort of an actual relationship, due to various compatibilities.

Another thing is, most of his friends are women, pretty cool women at that... so I do think he's a nice guy on at least some level. But maybe it's silly to trust someone just primarily based on who their friends are...

Again, I am admittedly pretty inexperienced with dating/relationships.

I understand exactly what your saying and can see why you are confused. But please remember you are still very young compared to him and have a lot of living to do until you seriously need to commit to somebody. Is it possible you are just infatuated with him because he gives you attention?

I understand exactly what your saying and can see why you are confused. But please remember you are still very young compared to him and have a lot of living to do until you seriously need to commit to somebody. Is it possible you are just infatuated with him because he gives you attention??

No, I don't just like him because he gives me attention. I've been through that, w/ the first guy I was w/ -I mostly liked /him/ just because he liked me, and it didn't turn out well.

No, with this guy I definitely like him for the things I know about him -b/c I've had fun w/ him, in and out of bed, overall more than I have had w/ other people.

But of course I'm not looking to settle down or anything. And it's not that I've stopped looking at boys... just haven't happened upon any that I clicked w/... so I'm still thinking about this guy, and wondering what to do/what to expect when I move back to his city in 2 months...

This is the type of guy that likes to keep his options open... he had a failed relationship so he sought out a companion to heal his wounds. You were that person and someone he could count on to fall back on when things went bad. What I mean by this is that while seeing you he was looking for another girl and while seeing this girl he lead you on so that you would still like him so he could have something to fall back on if this relationship didn't work, so that he would feel more secure knowing there is someone there and by this going out and trying to find another girl that better suits him. Sounds harsh but its true this guy sounds like something I would do.

Sounds harsh but its true this guy sounds like something I would do.

Hmm... except that this guy claimed, when stating his desire to get to know me better, that our history was odd and a "unique experience" for him. (Didn't really define what he meant by "our history" of course... )

Hmm... except that this guy claimed, when stating his desire to get to know me better, that our history was odd and a "unique experience" for him. (Didn't really define what he meant by "our history" of course...)

Sounds to me like this guy is giving you the run around , I'd forget about him and just take the whole exercise as a learning curve. Lifes too short to be investing in something that doesn't seem to be offering much return in the future.

If he really wanted you he would let you know and you shouldn't have to be second guessing.

Toluca, may I ask exactly what your age is? The reason I'm curious is because I have been following your posts in some of the other questions and it sounds to me like you know a lot more about relationships than you give yourself credit for. You actually sound rather mature.

With that said, I think if you re-read your question as if someone else wrote it than you would know what you have to do. In my eyes its clear that this guy is trying to keep you around as a back-up in case his other relationships don't work. Trust me, if someone really likes you (whether it's a man or woman) that person will let you know and choose to be with you exclusively. I'm actually surprised your not angrier at him for what happened. Just let this guy go and find yourself a better man. Ask yourself, do you really want to stick around to be somebody's second choice?

Friend,

Well, but how do I keep from investing when I enjoy talking to him, and /he/ keeps contacting /me/?

I've considered trying to phase him out, but that's kind of painful. It's difficult to suppress my own feelings when I just feel more confused than anything else.

Do you think I should have a what-is-up conversation w/ him? (more accurately, /another one/, but make this time different by not stopping until I get a clear answer.. ) How should I do that, if so? I feel like if I do that, it would be better to wait until we're face-to-face... But maybe he thought that asking me once if I wanted to be "just friends" was enough... maybe it's just me that's continuing to delude myself thinking that there's something more complicated there anyway... maybe he means the flirting to mean nothing. (But is it possible to be that oblivious?)

It is human nature to make things more complicated than they really are. A lot of it has to do with hope. We want a certain someone back in our life so badly that we look for any little reason or sign of hope to convince ourselves that its still possible, when in fact it's pretty obvious things just won't work out.

As much as I hate to say it, this is one of those cases. Once he told you that he just wanted to be friends the relationship was over. All the flirting that is coming from his end is a result of one of two things: (1) he wants to keep you around in case he ever wants to go back (2) it gives him an ego boost.

If I were in your position I would stop talking to this person. Cut him out of your life. I know it hurts, but it will hurt more if you continue to stick around hoping he will change his mind. Talk to him one last time and tell him that you can no longer talk to him because of the fact that you care so much about him. Let him know that at the moment you can't be friends because your feelings for him are very strong and consequently you can't stand the idea of him being with someone else. Be honest with him.

Take the time to sift through these boards. You'll find a lot of people who have been in similar situations. The advice people give time and again is "No Contact." Cutting contact saves you the pain and confusion. It allows you to heal and move on with your life. If it's meant to be he will come back, if not than at least you didn't waste your time waiting.

Toluca, may I ask exactly what your age is? The reason I'm curious is because I have been following your posts in some of the other questions and it sounds to me like you know a lot more about relationships than you give yourself credit for. You actually sound rather mature.


I'm almost 22. And not to brag, but I know I'm pretty smart and savvy when it comes to certain things... I go to a good school, I'm witty. I think this guy started to get more of a clue on that /after/ he broke up w/ me, starting w/ when I surprised him by telling him I found his blog and then made fun of him for it... it gave me more confidence around him, actually.


In my eyes its clear that this guy is trying to keep you around as a back-up in case his other relationships don't work.
Could be.


Trust me, if someone really likes you (whether it's a man or woman) that person will let you know and choose to be with you exclusively.
You think so? See with me, I am not always good at letting people know I really like them. In fact, I am generally more nervous, less touchy, and sometimes even more distant around people I really like. Not saying I expect this guy is like that. In fact, I don't expect that he knows he wants to be with me /at this point in time/


I'm actually surprised your not angrier at him for what happened.
Yeah, well I think the reason for my relatively non-dramatic response was multipart. One is self-esteem -or lack thereof, I suppose. As I started to dig this guy more, I started to expect that things would not work out (a pattern w/ me, seemingly) so I kind of expected something to go wrong. Another was that I'd acted casual about the situation up until that point, so I figured if I got all upset about it I'd seem immature. And then, of course, I simply really enjoy hanging out w/ him; I wish I could wash the emotional sticky-ness all away and just savor that part...

Just let this guy go and find yourself a better man.
That would be the trouble. I've had worse men, but not better. I don't know how to find one, it would seem...

That would be the trouble. I've had worse men, but not better. I don't know how to find one, it would seem...

You want to know a secret Toluca... they normally turn up when you aren't looking :-)

I guess too is it so inconceivable... sure not common, but /inconceivable/, that our interactions after he broke up with me gave him greater appreciation for how smart and interesting I am... and that at the least now he wants to be friends in a real sense, more so than while he was dating me? And possibly in the future something more, depending on how his feelings go, though he's not necessarily planning for that? Maybe he's a little unsure of what he wants. Normally he's most attracted to women his own age. He was in a long-term relationship w/ a normal-looking girl who'd been his best friend, then had a short but intense (for him) relationship w/ a very beautiful woman he'd not known that well. And maybe the problem w/ me was that I wasn't his type physically... but like I said, he complimented me, and I know he has crushes on women who look all sort of different ways.

I don't think he's deliberately manipulative... but maybe he is kind of emotionally F-ed up and it's not just me. I guess I just feel like I'd gain more from trying to talk to him first than by simply cutting him out of my life altogether. I've done that w/ people too, and that didn't stop me from thinking about a situation...

The answer to all of your questions is a resounding "Maybe." However, I personally believe that he will only appreciate you once your gone from his life. Ask yourself, how can he appreciate everything you have to offer when your always there to talk to him? You really don't appreciate something until its gone.

Moreover, at this point all he really does want is to be friends (that's exactly what he told you). However, just because the two of you are friends doesn't mean a relationship will develop. The biggest problem is that if you stick around for a friendship with the idea that it may turn into something more will only cause you a great deal of pain and confusion. If you want to remain friends, than do it, but don't hold out hope that things will work out in the future.

Also, you mention that when you like someone you act distant from them. I actually have a hard time believing that. I don't know you very well, but from your initial post it didn't sound like you kept your distance when you began having feelings for this guy. Maybe I should rephrase what I said: If someone truly likes you they won't tell you they just want to be friends while they date someone else.

Remember what I said about how its human nature to make things complicated. You're looking for hope that he will come back and it's only confusing you more.

Maybe I should rephrase what I said: If someone truly likes you they won't tell you they just want to be friends while they go ahead and date someone else.
Ouch. But yeah. I know people like multiple people at the same time all the time, even when in relationships. But I guess if he liked me somewhat but he still wanted to date someone else, he might have told me that.


how can he appreciate everything you have to offer when your always there to talk to him?
I don't know about /always/. I don't answer every single e-mail of his, or every question, I cut some IM conversations off short... I certainly am more distant with him than I am with my regular friends, and always have been. Not sure if that has much affect on his feelings, though...

Also, I'm not completely ulterior-motive free myself. He's got a lot of cool friends I wouldn't mind getting to know more. And one of his friends is another cute and interesting guy, who I think was maybe attracted to me in that more typical way (both times he met me he stared at me and smiled at me more than any other women in the room) I would totally hook up w/ him given the chance.

Girl, this guy is using you as back up. As old as he is, he knows what he is doing. He is not some teenager. He sees you as easy otherwise he would not be doing this "let's be friends" stuff with you.
You need to tell him "Thanks but no Thanks" and mean it.

Personally, unless this guy is deceitful and tells you lies, I think he should be free to date, and befriend any one he wants. You must understand your own feelings, and deal with people for what they are. Your single, and so is he, and having fun on your own terms, is what life is about, as we never know how we may feel later. I would advise you to be less available, and more balanced, as your free as he is, to date whom you want, and have fun, without commitment. We all get carried away when we meet someone with potential, that we are attracted to, and assume that its time to be exclusive, and that's not so. Get to know someone, before it gets to that exclusive stage, and then you can talk about it. Dating is for having fun getting to know someone, not a plan for a longterm relationship. Just go slow and enjoy, without the high expectations, and stay balanced in your own life, by not making him the whole enchilada, as saving the commitments for much later, can ensure you are enjoying the experience to the fullest without compromising yourself. No sex, until your sure, as many mistake the physical, for true love, and skip the know each other better, as sex complicates our feelings to the max, and makes us rush into things we may not be ready for, and blinds us to things we need to see, in a realistic way. Have fun and enjoy without the complications of assumptions, and unrealistic expectations. He sounds honest from what you've written. Be the same to him, but let him chase you little. What's the hurry, there is a lot of living to do.

Stop wondering if he might like you or if he might be interested in you. Actions speak louder than word, he clearly isn't interested anymore. On top of that he told you he wants to be friends.

Boy don't think, they just do! So if he really like you or is interested in you, he'll let you know. And if your case, he clearly told you he's not interested already. Stop wasting time!

Stay out of his bed until you know what's up. This is the mistake a lot of women make. They enter into a sexual relationship and assume this means something to the guy. He has told you he wants friendship but still does the sexual innuendo thing. This should tell you something.

talaniman,

I like your advice. I have more the perspective you do on things, about dating I guess. Maybe because the dating I was doing was in a liberal urban environment. How exactly would you advise me to act to be less available and to "let him chase me" though? I tried going on a date with one boy, but that didn't lead to anything else. I'll try dating other people, given the opportunity. It's more the "let him chase me" part I don't quite understand...

I don't think the issue here is dating. I'm all for dating multiple people as long as your up front about it (I'm a very liberal individual). However what you need to take into account is that he chose her over you and you are still pining for him. There is nothing wrong with that and his decision doesn't make him a bad person. It's all a part of dating.

The bigger problem is that you are trying to find away to get him to come back (correct me if I'm wrong). You just can't do that, especially when he said all he wanted was to be friends. Sure you can play all the games you want, be less available, let him chase you, but if it doesn't work and your agenda was to try to get him back than you will be in for a lot of hurt.

Staying in contact with him isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as your motivation to do so is not to get back with him. Be honest with yourself. Why do you want to continue contact and a friendship? If the answer is to win him back than it's best to forget and move on.

He has already told you "What's Up" He wants to be friends with the possibility of a little "somethin-somethin" on the side. If you don't mind being used that way, go for it. Otherwise leave him alone.

The bigger problem is that you are trying to find away to get him to come back (correct me if I'm wrong).

Well okay, I think one thing that is tripping me up, admittedly, is that after he spent the night at my house he had acted like he wanted to keep seeing me and was still acting like he was looking forward to seeing me a few days later, and then quite suddenly this other woman popped up. So it sort of felt like a lack of closure, and it sort of made me wonder whether things I did (being somewhat less affectionate than he was, refusing to set dates much ahead of time with him, being late to dates, obviously being interested in physical stuff, etc.) helped him make the decision that our thing didn't have potential beyond a little casual fun.

And yeah, I do still like him. At the same time, I'm not entirely sure I want to date him. I sort of want to think he likes-likes me at least somewhat, but that is more of an ego thing than anything else I guess. What I want more than anything is a straight-up answer about what was going on in his head, whether he just flat-out used me knowing he was never into me in a real way or whether it was more complicated... I just don't know how to get that without coming across as insecure or something, and further hindering the chance of a friendship (or something else).

I understand your confusion, but those answers you want, may never come, and only complicate, and confuse things, as he may not know either. By being less available , I merely meant don't always be there for him, whether for conversation or phone calls , and not to play a game, but to keep your own perspective, about the importance of him in your life. Men are easy, don't listen to the words, watch the actions. And go slow. At this time, he may well have other interests. So do you, so the point would be, to keep living your life, whether he is a part or not, and be realistic about your whole approach, as many say follow your heart, and that's crap to me, as listen to your heart, but use common sense also. You can't force someone to like you, but you can have fun with them, if you keep the proper perspective, and don't lose yourself in the fantasy, or feelings.

You can't force someone to like you, but you can have fun with them, if you keep the proper perspective, and don't lose yourself in the fantasy, or feelings.

Sure. Yeah. Agreed. And when I'm back in his city where I don't have all that many friends, it'd be nice to have /someone/ to go out and shoot the sh** w/. I still wonder if there might be a more appropriate time and place to talk to him about this more directly though... I'd sort of hate to go hanging out w/ him while having my feelings be like the elephant in the corner... and then sooner or later say "you know what, I just can't do this anymore" and have it be coming like out of nowhere. That doesn't make me feel very mature... I don't know though. He acts like he wants to be friends like, maybe a little more than I do at this point... not sure if true, not sure what to do about that if so.

Hey Toluca, I just wanted to know if things are going well.

Well, they're fine. Not like anything remarkable has happened/changed since I wrote the OP.

What about the rest of your life? Are you doing anything exciting? Or are you busy with work or school? Come on, I'm sure a girl like you doesn' have much time to relax because your having a hard time keeping the guys away! ;)

Live for yourself, not someone else... If you live for someone else, once that person is gone, you have nothing but yourself. What's new with school? Work? Family? Friends? Hobbies?

What about the rest of your life? Are you doing anything exciting? Or are you busy with work or school? Come on, I'm sure a girl like you doesn' have much time to relax because your having a hard time keeping the guys away! ;)

Huh? Where'd you get an idea like that? I mean, I'm fairly cute I guess... but I feel like I have a pretty hard time meeting people unless I'm frequenting the club scene, which I sure don't do when I'm in school. I sure don't feel like guys are ever competing over me or anything... all the questions I've asked on this site have been basically about the same situation.

But yeah, I'm pretty busy with school... and a little fun now and then too, of course.

Come on! I can tell from your posts that you are a smart, knowledge-seeking, and confident individual. On top of that you say your cute! Geez, how can you not have guys falling all over you?

If you want to meet people the clubs and bars aren't bad, but I would instead suggest joining an organization that centers around something you enjoy. You could also try picking up a new hobby, start going to the gym, take a fun class. There are plenty of ways to meet people if you just put that little extra effort.

I would disagree with meeting people at bars and clubs. Most of the men there that are seeking a woman's attention are seeking to get into your pants. Don't get me wrong, I'm not say ALL are. But there are much better places to meet men. I would have to agree with the joining an organization idea. And meeting people at the gym is a great idea.

I would disagree with meeting people at bars and clubs. Most of the men there that are seeking a woman's attention are seeking to get into your pants. Don't get me wrong, I'm not say ALL are. But there are much better places to meet men. I would have to agree with the joining an organization idea. And meeting people at the gym is a great idea.

I know. That's what I meant, actually. Just based on people's reactions/interactions with me, I feel like I am good-looking enough to attract plenty of guys at locations where guys are looking primarily for casual hookups, but I don't really get all that much attention in contexts where people would have to seriously invest themselves in me. I am one of those girls that gets complimented by other girls (and old people) significantly more than I get complimented by guys my age. IMO I have a nice body, okay face. Overall what some people would call a slightly "masculine" look (which has been my theory as to the different reactions of girls vs. guys). Probably what I get most often is "cute". I don't know most of people's thoughts about me, of course, only what they voice...

Anyway, I realize that's all just physical stuff. I'm not saying that's all that matters, but it /does/ matter a lot, especially to 20 yr-olds. And trust me, I don't have to fight off guys. I really have no guys in my life in any substantial way right now. My best guy friend from hs who lives several states away is attracted to me (I don't want him in that way, however). There's this guy I was writing about in this post. Then there's a cute guy who asked me on a date recently and for some reason (I think it might be because we had next to nothing in common) that was the last one. I feel like I meet about 1 or 2 guys a year who I am signficantly attracted to, who actually returns the interest in some sort of a basic way (usually we just wind up making out). Most of the guys I'm interested in don't seem to want much of anything to do with me (and yes, I can be sort of obvious about it, or at least I used to be); of course, I tend to be interested in cute guys, the type plenty of other girls like too.

I mean, I think every guy I ever dated who I actually liked was someone /I/ asked out initially, and none of them ever went anywhere anyway... Then again, I am not the most social person in the world -I'm outgoing in social situations, but I don't spend lots of time socializing -so there's no way of knowing how much that accounts for my lack of action.


To give you some general idea of what I mean by being attracted to cute guys though, the guy I wrote about in this thread had a body that was too skinny IMO, but a face that closely resembled a certain male movie star who is very popular with women. He was not the most attractive guy I've ever been into -somewhere in the middle of the scale.

I'm actually kind of similar in that I only meet 1 or 2 girls a year that I bother investing some time towards a possible relationship. My problem however is that I'm a very picky individual when it comes to getting into a relationship. Oh well.

Anyway, I think you are taking looks into consideration a little too much. I absolutely agree that there needs to be a physical attraction between both individuals for a relationship to spark, but it almost sounds like you are giving it too much emphasis. There are a lot of people in their early 20's who don't consider looks to be the most important thing.

For example, I'm 22 years old and when I first met my now ex-girlfriend a lot of my friends were like "Wow, she's hot." However, I personally wasn't that attracted and I told my buddies "Eh, she's alright" (she was cute, but nothing special). But then I got to know her and the more time I spent talking to her about things we had in common I found myself falling head over heels for her (this was when I started thinking "Wow, she's hot"). Eventually she won me over and we got into a relationship. It was great... until it ended lol. Very bad break-up but that's another story.

Anyway, if you see a cute guy then try to get to know him, you might win him over. If not, then oh well move on to the next person. On the flip-side, if a guy who's just "alright" looking tries to talk to you, don't be too quick to brush him aside. He might surprise you. Most importantly, just have fun. The right person will come along when you're not worrying about these little things.

Yeah, I mean I definitely don't just blow off guys I'm not immediately very attracted to. I'm just one of the few people I know who has /never/ experienced falling for someone I wasn't immediately attracted to...

But eh, maybe someday that will change...

One thing that makes me a bit scared-ish, is that my first relationship (well, more like non-relationship) was with someone I wasn't that physically attracted to, but whose personality I liked... to make a long story short, he was frustrated with the lack of action beyond just kissing, I tried to force myself into being more physical with him, and I wound up just feeling really queasy about the whole thing. It was pretty bad for both of us, I think... And probably made me a lot more wary of relationships in general...

So I really, really don't want to repeat a situation like that...

You should never do something that makes you feel uncomfortable. It's normal for men and women to want "action" but if your partner truly cares about you than he or she will not pressure you to do anything beyond your comfort zone. When you become physically intimate with someone you should feel great and amazing, not queasy. So if your not feeling the passion than move on, but don't every force yourself to do anything you don't like, especially to please someone else.

Give it time Toluca, you'll eventually find someone who makes your heart race and skip a beat. And don't let that "non-relationship" scare you. You should never carry your mistakes, instead you should learn from them so that you can become stronger. In the meantime just have fun with life, you only get one shot at it.