Obama says he is shocked that his Pastor preaches racist anti American things.
A. Think he must of missed those few days going to church?
B. Rarely went to church?
C. Pastor really only did give a few of those sermons and managed to keep it out of all his other sermons?
D. Other? your opinion here

Well since I don't have personal membership insight, I'll give you my opinion. I think Wright does believe what he preaches on Black theology as fact and probably gives it attention to some degree in most of his services. I suspect when he knowingly has Obama or Oprah in attendance, he does so in a mild form. Obama does not attends the church every Sunday, especially since he's been away heavily campaigning in the primaries and caucuses. I hope this helps.

D. Mr. Obama's claimed ignorance of the facts strike me as a bit hollow. It would be analogous to trying to convince your wife, that an establishment you had frequented since the early 90s; which also had a bordello in the back room, and that you had no idea it was there. I think the honeymoon is over.

Obama knows fully well where his pastor stands on "the issues"; it is why Rev. Wright was dis-invited to Obama's announcement. I just wonder what Obama was thinking when he heard Wright say such things. I suppose Wright could have told Obama, "Those white folks, they are all so stupid", and he believed him.

Wow! We have so much firsthand knowledge participating on this board. :rolleyes:

Not only do I THINK that Obama was aware of the ideology of the parish (it is all over the web site of the church) ,but that he subscribes to the views espoused. The only way I see Obama salvaging his campaign at this point is for him to have a Mitt Romney moment . He needs to make a national address assuring America that he is not a proponent of the radical views of the church and the Rev Wright. He needs to convince me that if he chose the title of his book The Audacity of Hope from the inspiration Rev Wright gives him that he also did not consider as a title God Damn America . He contributed money to voluntarily listened to, and publicly defended a Rev who peddles racial warfare and anti-Americanism .That is a fact.

As Dark Crow pointed out ,and I mentioned on another posting ,he may get a pass as far as the Democrat nomination goes. 1st ;he probably cannot be stopped at this time ;and 2nd, the screeds of Rev Wright are echoes of many other Democrat radicals .It is nothing new if you have listened to Noam Chomsky,Ward Churchill, Michel Moore ,Cindy Sheehad ,Moveon.org,most of the contributors to the Huffpost. etc. Obama himself has said, “I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial.”

But in the general election we now have content in evaluating Obama's inspirational fluff and stuff rhetoric. We now know who the person who advises him and is his spiritual mentor,and that is a glimpse into his soul .How does he explain credibly a 20 year relationship with this hate-monger preacher ? It's all over for Obama because there is nothing he can say now except "WORDS"

The premise of this question is skewed and with no other possibility than being answered with opinions... and sure we all have our own. But fact is that Obama already publicly addressed the issue of his Wright's remarks. All right my Republican friends, if Wright runs for president I wouldn't be voting for him either, but based on Hagee's theology he would garnish zero Catholic support, as he damns them to an eternal fiery furnace. Thank goodness Hagee's not running for president.

I was only looking for opinions
I get the same impression as youinz have said,
How can you be involved with the church as much and as long as he has and not know where the Pastor stands.

Hello N0:

It's my opinion that you're not going to find a black preacher in THIS country who DOESN'T believe that stuff...

So, YOU think they should be saying the same things in black churches as whitey does in his church?? That shows just how out of touch you right wingers are.

excon

No ex that is not what I am saying.
I do not believe there are many if any black preachers in THIS country that believe that stuff but the fact is that OBAMA's Pastor IS saying this stuff and OBAMA says he never heard it before. It doesn't have anything to do with OTHER black preachers. I have been to MANY black churches so I am not out of touch at all with what they preach as a whole.

If he`s out of touch with pastors in general then he`s got my vote! :)

Hi No.

I briefly saw this mess on the news. I am pulling back a bit from the election because our needs, once again, are being overshadowed by negative campaigining. I will tune back in a bit more focused when they start to pick a running mate.

But I got to tell you, I feel bad for this guy. Real bad. Could care less what his preacher thinks (unless he is picking him as his running mate).

I think, once again, this is to make him look bad because of the color of his skin.

I feel in my heart, America, we really haven't come very far, have we?

I am Catholic. I know my priest and Pastor love our Lord. I had a cousin who was a nun, as well as Aunts, am I to know how they stand on all issues.

Am I responsible for the sick (and I don't mean that harshly) men, who dressed as priest, and molested children... I think not.

This really hurts me to my heart.

We really have not come very far and maybe we even took a couple steps back.

See you when they pick a running mate :), as this is only child's play compared to what some may have up their sleeve.

Hillary even thought this was all wrong as she knows the climate in which all political figures are in and how it can burn you without you even knowing.

I really do feel bad for Barrack.

The thing is that with OBAMA not doing the pledge of allegiance and some of his ties
And him not wanting to say where he stands on his patriotism and some issues he is ignoring
It makes me feel like he could be hiding something --really important.

The thing is that with OBAMA not doing the pledge of allegiance and some of his ties
and him not wanting to say where he stands on his patriotism and some issues he is ignoring
it makes me feel like he could be hiding something --really important.


They are good points No - I don't discount that. But I did feel bad for him when I saw him on the news.

But then again, I felt bad for Britney, when she was shaving her head :o

Yeah you feel bad but they made their own bed
Question is what bed is Obama's??

The thing is that with OBAMA not doing the pledge of allegiance and some of his ties
and him not wanting to say where he stands on his patriotism and some issues he is ignoring
it makes me feel like he could be hiding something --really important.All that stuff has been answered and discounted.

...some issues he is ignoring
it makes me feel like he could be hiding something --really important.

Or the issues are being "spun" to make you feel that way.

On the church issue... There aren't any more Billy Grahams. Big churches are like everything else in the US. They are about big money. What one hears from the pulpit is what sells. In the black community what sells is "It's not your fault, it's whitey's fault." At high or low volume, the same song is heard. In white churches it's, "Don't worry, be happy."

This election is going to be nasty. The repubs have to find a way to attack Obama that doesn't make them look too racist. Watch for the variations on the theme they will be trying out in the near term. One of them is, "He knows racist black people." It is part of turning the issue of race around on him. Expect to hear many variations on that theme.

McCain doesn't have a great deal of money compared to the dems. But, there is a great amount of pac money that will be focused on what I said above. Their job is to attack Obama and not get much dirt on McCain. The pacs take the heat, but spin the argument in ways that take advantage of the white's fears of having a black president.

If this sort of thing bugs you, just ignore everything but statements about where the candidates stand on the issues. It will be tough sledding because lots of hot buttons are going to be pushed on both sides.

I would like to vote Obama even though I am democrat I have just as much, maybe even more concerns about McCain. But Obama just seems to have a hidden side that I feel shaky about. I don't see that he discounted anything, just shook it off as insignificant.

Rodandy

We have known this issue for a year . Why is it that ABC ;hardly a part of us vast right wing conspiracy types is reporting this stuff after he is almost assured the nomination ? Why did they not vett this stuff a year ago ?
Certainly they knew the ramblings of the racist Rev Wright .

Bobby

Again.. Hagee is not McCain's pastor .He is just one of many who has given him an endorsement . Should he reject it ? Yes... as suredly as Ron Paul should've rejected the endorsement of the Ayrian racists who gave him support. As I recall people back then said the endorsement does not reflect Paul's attitudes about race .

The difference here is a 20 YEAR RELATIONSHIP with this pastor and his teachings. They cannot be separated any more then President Bush's faith is from the man. Do you dispute that a critique of President Bush and his faith have been ongoing throughout his Presidency ? Do you dispute that the Huckster's and Romney's faith were campaign issues ? Why should Obama be exempt ?

rodandy

The difference here is a 20 YEAR RELATIONSHIP with this pastor and his teachings. They cannot be separated

EXACTLY what I have a problem with. With 20 yrs and the Pastor making racist and anti American statements I would have to find another church especially if I was considering wanting to become President someday. It is hard to over look and I doubt the Pastor hid his true feelings for only when Obama wasn't there unless he RARELY attended.

Obama says he is shocked that his Pastor preaches racist anti American things.
A. Think he must of missed those few days going to church?
B. Rarely went to church?
C. Pastor really only did give a few of those sermons and managed to keep it out of all his other sermons?
D. Other? your opinion here

He loved to claim and use his Christian fellowship and church membership when it was good for him, but when people started looking to close at that church now he has to back off from them.

So now he is a christian, but just not a good one , since he don't pay attention to what the pastor is saying. ** well maybe he is a normal christian.

But there are several groups that teach the "Black" version of bibical history. There are some of course like one here in Atlanta that even teaches that all white people are of Satan, and that the real "black Jesus" has not come yet, but will come to save all blacks from the white oppression.
**** great chance of any fellowship with them??

But he has a full responsibility to choose from 100's of chruches, and he picked that one. A person normally goes to one for varoius reason, either this one gave him a political push and edge by connections in the church and in the Black leadership of political areas. Or he really believes in what they teach ( or both)

I don't have a problem with them preaching black version. I have been to many black churches and great.
I don't even care if they teach Jesus was black. We teach Jesus was white to me same difference basically.
BUT I have heard the white people are of satan that is a small part of what worries me.
Cause it only gets worse there on out and with the anti-American stuff!

I personally believe Jesus was neither black or white but what they call 'olive skin' Jew.

Hello N0:

It's my opinion that you're not gonna find a black preacher in THIS country who DOESN'T believe that stuff.......

So, YOU think they should be saying the same things in black churches as whitey does in his church???? That shows just how out of touch you right wingers are.

excon

Gee, I feel so naïve in believing that MLK held views much different from those of Rev. Wright.

The point is that if McCain was a member of an organization that included David Duke, he would be skewered on the front page of the NYT, as well as most other media. Do we have a double standard here?

Gee, I feel so naive in believing that MLK held views much different from those of Rev. Wright.

The point is that if McCain was a member of an organization that included David Duke, he would be skewered on the front page of the NYT, as well as most other media. Do we have a double standard here?

I wish it were the days of JFK, MLK!

You could write volumes on political double standards and it WOULD favor the Dems.

To be quite honest, I saw the Preacher in question on TV. I couldn't even make out what he was saying. Just hollering and screaming. But I bet he has his quite moments too.
Where he speaks of God's love.

Yes, birds of a feather sometimes flock together, but not always. If this were Hillary, or John, I'd want them not to be defined by who they associate with, but more, who they are and their views.

Truth is, if Barrack is the worst ever, and wants nothing but bad for our country (which I doubt), we can impeach him, can't we?

I think we as Americans should demand to only listen to the issues. Period. There are more of us then them, we actually hold the power, and we give our power to them, with our vote.

Amen and Alleluliah.

Thing is that HE wants to be President and the issue is IF he is pro American and knew he wanted to be President why would he ''associate'' with an anti American Pastor?
I would be looking for another flock long ago so that nobody could associate me with the Pastor if my aspirations were to be President someday.

Obama used Black liberation theology as a means to an end…to become an elected official and that carried him to a seat in the senate. Black liberation theology represents the “Change, unity, and Hope” he consistently remindes everyone about in his speeches i.e. the liberation of oppressed (economic, psychological, and political repression) people. Wright compared Jesus and Obama…. Christ became a member of the oppressed in order to promise them freedom and hope.

The message from Christ however was not liberation in this life, but salvation unto another life.

Obama and his Black liberation theology cannot bring liberation, it can only bring more division.

Obama and his Black liberation theology cannot bring liberation, it can only bring more division.Odd you say that since I've rarely seen more people dedicated to divisiveness that the neocon group here.

Also, when was the last time that a pastor influenced a president's decisions?
Is this really all you guys have? The guy's pastor is dodgy so that's a deal-breaker? Haha, you guys are running scared that he's going to run against "let's stay in Iraq 100 years" McSame.

Odd you say that since I've rarely seen more people dedicated to divisiveness that the neocon group here.

Also, when was the last time that a pastor influenced a president's decisions?
Is this really all you guys have? The guy's pastor is dodgy so that's a deal-breaker? Haha, you guys are running scared that he's gonna run against "let's stay in Iraq 100 years" McSame.
Absolutely everything in you response is a “Red Herring”…Not relevant to my post.

What another group, or pastor does is not relevant.

Obama is done for, finished, kaput, he will never get elected.

Obama is done for, finished, kaput, he will never get elected.

You're so open-minded. :D

This whole thread is a red herring.

Aren't we though?
I am so open minded that I wouldn't be surprised if Obama did get elected... with Hillary's record of people that cross her *mysteriously dying*... and of course that would lead to yet another conspiracy theory against the Rep's.

Bobby

Again .. Hagee is not McCain's pastor .He is just one of many who has given him an endorsement . Should he reject it ? Yes ...as suredly as Ron Paul should've rejected the endorsement of the Ayrian racists who gave him support. As I recall people back then said the endorsement does not reflect Paul's attitudes about race .

The difference here is a 20 YEAR RELATIONSHIP with this pastor and his teachings. They cannot be seperated any more then President Bush's faith is from the man. Do you dispute that a critique of President Bush and his faith have been ongoing throughout his Presidency ? Do you dispute that the Huckster's and Romney's faith were campaign issues ? Why should Obama be exempt ?

Huckster and Romney made it a subject of campaign fodder and endearment. As far as trying to distance Hagee from McCain, I'm not buying that. If anyone wants to play nutcase showdown, I'm more than willing to link everyone in candidacy to questionable irrational. Ron Paul was criticized heavily by Jewish communities for his voting discord, which was his way of saying the US should be less involved abroad. No. I don't agree with how Paul handled that situation; I advocate Zionism. But I understood it in context. As for Obama, so what if a relationship was 20 years or two minutes? Obama already denounced and tackled the issue of his retired pastor, which has no place on Obama's campaign platform. They never had a news-op together for endorsements. Let's look at anti-Catholic Hagee. McCain gladly put his arm around Hagee in the spotlight of national news coverage and endorsement him with a smile of pearly whites. As for Bush, I couldn't tell you what his Christianity he believes in. I recall that he's affiliated Protestant and that he fooled the whole bible belt twice in both general elections for what it's worth. Bill Clinton before the primary in Texas, on behalf of his wife's campaign, tried to appeal to Christians in Houston by showing up to Joel Olsteen's church. Who the hell did Bill think he was fooling? That was truly a laughable sight to see.

Hello again:

Frankly, I don't want my president elected in a cake walk. If he can't handle his opposition, then he can't handle the enemy.

excon

Since McCain is no different than Bush I just how much your economy can take. Someone has to pay that debt down eventually.

Bush is just having more money printed to cover debt and that is making our economy fall
But with Hillary or Obama they will just make bigger debt and leave it for somebody else to clean up in 2012.

Bush is just having more money printed to cover debt and that is making our economy fall
but with Hillary or Obama they will just make bigger debt and leave it for somebody else to clean up in 2012.
This topic is evolving to more of my liking. Since we agree that government is too big, expensive, and unaffordable, which part do we want to shrink? Shall we ban 'earmarks' for starters?

For starters?
Ban politicians!!
:D

Bush is just having more money printed to cover debt and that is making our economy fall
but with Hillary or Obama they will just make bigger debt and leave it for somebody else to clean up in 2012.


This is where the economics favor Ron Paul. To be perfectly straight, McCain will just continue the Bush administration economic failures. McCain even admitted the economy is a weak subject for him. Not only trickle down styled "Repubnomics" that never worked, but McCain's more than willing to invest further into one hundred years more of war. Yes! The Democrats will spend and tax us. You just have to decide where you rather have the money spent. At least with the Democrats we could spend more on home initiatives, even if some of the programs are welfare abused, as we all know. Our country's infrastructure and educational system is sorely in need of immediate attention.

Babram
I totally agree that is what scares me about any of our *fine* choices.
They say our school system is way behind from other countries, --
P.C. way of saying our kids are dumbed down.

I'm an advocate of Home schooling if the parents are capable. Now depending on the educational standards of the Private schools, they can be excellent, if affordable. Unfortunately the costs for sending a child through a private system is too high for most families. For example: we have few really good educational private Jewish schools in Vegas, but they are real expensive. However another good alternative is a Magnet School. That is if your child qualifies by testing and has a talented ability usually in at least one area, business, sciences, the arts, etc... These are public schools but cater to only the best students and have fewer distractions than the regular public school system.

See this is a discussion of issues that is more positive. There are sites that discuss the issues like adults, they link to the candidates stance on the various issues and debate which platform would give the most positive benefit. This forum has more negative campaigning than the actual live campaign.

I am positive
I positive that they ALL scare me!

Relax. They couldn't possibly do worse than your current goose, so you'll be fine.

... and they THOUGHT nobody could be worse than Clinton or some others :(

With Clinton we had two years of budget surplus.

What are you folks looking for in a president? Jimmy Carter was "a good man" but not much of a president. JFK was an arrogant SOB and we loved him... except that he almost started WWIII. We loved Nixon and he might be the best foreign policy president we've had in the last 50 years, but he was a crook.

Given all the variation we've had, it is hard to say any particular person couldn't turn into something special. Even Bush was special for a while just after 9/11. In the end, I think we need more John Waynes these days. He once said, "He wasn't my candidate, but since he was elected, I'll support him." (Can't remember which election that was.)

Odd you say that since I've rarely seen more people dedicated to divisiveness that the neocon group here.

Personally, I love to be insulted and misrepresented by someone taking the positive, adult approach (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/so-what-verdict-here-194999-post937093.html#post937093) in condemning "divisiveness." :D

Oh how boring it would be if we all agreed !