Earlier, I started a discussion about heaven. Whether it was a state of mind or if it was a literal physical location. So, what about hell? Another physical location with fire-ey pits and a devil running around with a pitch fork or just the absence of the peaceful loving presence of God?

Heaven and Hell? Are you serious?
You're asking people all over the world to start talking about this?
If you're catholic, ask your preist and even he will try to skirt the question.
It's all about faith. In order to have faith that there's a heaven, there needs to be an equal and opposite plain of existence. If it weren't for fear of hell Evil would be more prevailant for two reasons, firstly... If Evil isn't in Hell, it has to be here among us. And secondly... People would have nothing to fear as repercussion.
If you have faith then you believe blindly. If you truly have faith then no matter what you hear from others, Hell is a very real place.
I must disclaim however that while I took religious studies and religious education for many years I am an atheist. I do not believe in heaven, hell, white utopian paradises or fiery pits.

Heaven and Hell?? are you serious?
You're asking people all over the world to start talking about this?
If you're catholic, ask your preist and even he will try to skirt the question.
It's all about faith. In order to have faith that there's a heaven, there needs to be an equal and opposite plain of existence. If it weren't for fear of hell Evil would be more prevailant for two reasons, firstly... If Evil isn't in Hell, it has to be here among us. and secondly... People would have nothing to fear as repercussion.
If you have faith then you believe blindly. If you truly have faith then no matter what you hear from others, Hell is a very real place.
I must disclaim however that while I took religious studies and religious education for many years I am an athiest. I do not believe in heaven, hell, white utopian paradises or firey pits.


Yep! I'm asking. I'm not a catholic and don't have a priest. Besides I don't take any humans word to the bank because the truth is... None of us knows anything as concrete fact. We have beliefs that we choose based on all kinds of factors.

To me, faith and fact are not synonmous. Think about it, there are VERY FEW things in the world that we actually KNOW. Most things are just high or low probability or assumption.
I ASSUME my dog in the next room is alive, but I don't KNOW it. Oprah had a question going for awhile. It was "What do you KNOW for SURE. The list is short if you are being very honest.

I believe in right and wrong and good and evil. Positive energy and negative energy. My soul is more at peace if I follow my conscience's direction to do what is right. For me, doing what is right has nothing to do with the repurcussion. I don't obey the law because
of jail time. I obey it because it lines up with my "what's right radar".

When my son was in the first grade, he and I were getting in the car. Next to us was a car with the window down and a wallet on the seat. I commented on how dumb that was to leave it there all out in the open. I said to my son, "we are not going to take that even though it would be very easy to do, are we?" He answered ,"no." I ask why not. What he said to me made me so proud. "Just because it wouldn't be right." That was all the reason he needed. Not, because we could get caught and be arrested, and bla bla bla .

Now, back to hell. I'm not expecting to hear facts, just other peoples opinions. I have faith, but I don't believe blindly. That is why I am open for debate.

My kids are atheist and what bothers me most about that is that they don't have a higher power that they turn to in times of dispare. Whether it is a real tangible thing or just playing with my mind, I get strength from turning to said higher power, whatever you want to call it

Another thing that we KNOW for SURE is that we are all going to die. Eternity is a long time and it behooves us to at least open out minds to the possibility of existing in peace or hell. If we just rot in the ground, no harm done. Doesn't hurt to investigate. BTW, even though my kids are atheist, they are both kind, loving, do what's right people. They don't behave this way for fear of hell.

Many people do not have a "what's right radar" or if they do they must have it turned off and faith in a hell prevents them from doing the wrong thing.
I personally have a firm grasp on what I believe to be rithg and wrong. My daughter trusts right now that what I tell her is right.
I appreciate that eternity is a long time and know that it would be wise to hedge my bets with a heaven/hell belief system, however it makes no sense to use sense to help me decide to believe something which to me makes no sense.
I am only atheist because I don't believe, I wish sometimes that I did believe in a higher power.
My daughter is impressionable right now and occasionally her grandmother takes her to church. I hope that she decides to believe all by herself, however I also hope that (from a purely selfish standpoint) in times of despair, she will turn to me.
PS. I didn't mean to make it sound like I assumed you were catholic, it was just an example of who you could ask, typically a religious head or authority would be the one to pose your questions with.

I didn't answer the question about Heaven--by the time I saw it, others had already said most everything. But yes, I believe it is a literal place. Whether it is on this plane of existence or not, I don't know. I'll leave the metaphysics and stuff to others. In reality, though, I guess its location isn't all that important. Just that it is.

As for hell: Yeah, I believe it exists. Yeah, I think it is a physical place. Is it all fiery and stuff? I don't know. According to some folks that have had NDE's (near death experiences) and claim to have visited it, it is. Others who claim to have seen it say it isn't. I think both are possible. I think the "lake of fire" was prepared solely for Lucifer and his "angels" that went with him in his rebellion. Those that have rejected God may go there, or may simply get their wish granted: an eternity separated from God. What that looks like--I don't know. Jesus often warned, however, to beware him that can burn body and soul in the unquenchable fire (paraphrase).

Bottom line: I know that Heaven is a far grander place than I could ever imagine. I know that hell is a far worse place than I can ever imagine.

There is only one book that makes claims as to accuracy concerning Hell (or Heaven). We either accept what the Bible has to say about Hell, or we don't. Anything else is mere conjecture without any evidence. As to "blind faith" that is an oxymoron. Faith has to be based on some evidence or it is merely hope, which is not the same thing.

Wow, you all gave some great answers! I like them all.

I agree with most of the people who have responded. Just as I said I believe Heaven is a physical place, I also believe hell is a physical place. I believe what little information God's grants us about Heaven in the Bible is not metaphorically speaking, same goes for hell. I believe it to be the way God describes it.

One explanation of hell is Sartre's... Hell is other people.

Keen insight.. :D

"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature (flesh), from that nature (flesh) will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life." Galatians 6:7-8

We will reap the results of the seed we sow, good or bad.

Jesus said, "And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven: but the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 8:11-12

"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping an gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." Matthew 13:40-43

There will be no second chance once we hear Him say, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels." Matthew 25:41

In Acts 2:38 Peter told the sinners, "Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins."... "They then that received his word were baptized: and there were added unto them in that day about three thousand souls...And the Lord added to the church daily those that were saved." Acts 2:41,47

Christendom and in many non-Christian religions it is taught that hell is a place inhabited by demons and where the wicked, after death, are punished.

Eccl. 9:5, 10: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all…

Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.”

Ezek. 18:4: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.”



Does the Bible also say that upright people go to hell?

Job 14:13, Dy: “[Job prayed:] Who will grant me this, that thou mayst protect me in hell, and hide me till thy wrath pass, and appoint me a time when thou wilt remember me?” (God himself said that Job was “a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad.”—Job 1:8.)


What does the Bible say the penalty for sin is?
Rom. 6:23: “The wages sin pays is death.”
After one's death, is he still subject to further punishment for his sins?
Rom. 6:7: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”

Is eternal torment of the wicked compatible with God's personality?

The concepts associated with a hell of torment slander God and originate with the chief slanderer of God (the Devil, which name means “Slanderer”), the one whom Jesus Christ called “the father of the lie.”—John 8:44.

There is only one book that makes claims as to accuracy concerning Hell (or Heaven). We either accept what the Bible has to say about Hell, or we don't. Anything else is mere conjecture without any evidence. As to "blind faith" that is an oxymoron. Faith has to be based on some evidence or it is merely hope, which is not the same thing.

Faith is just believing, and believing without evidence.
Hope is when you have no evidence and would like to believe but are uncertain.
If we could see God nobody would have faith in God's existence. We may need faith in God's power, mercy or ability to help, but if something is proven, or is evident, then faith falls by the wayside.
I for example am an Atheist and therefore do not believe in God, I do believe in Jesus Christ. At least his existence, that's because there is physical proof of his existence.
Evidence of existence = No faith required. I don't believe he's our savior, but then, that's a stretch.
I like the irony in the fact that Catholics believe that Priests talk to god and that God responds, but if they have an actual relationship with God, They cannot possibly have faith.

I also believe that Faith in man is a more productive faith than that which leads to personal salvation.

Hell is a real place, and all Christians, if they really are, have to believe it to be a real place because they accept the bible as the truth of God. Just as there is a heaven, there is a hell

Faith is just believing, and believing without evidence.

I also believe that Faith in man is a more productive faith than that which leads to personal salvation.
I wonder what takes the most faith…a universe where all events are accidents and what appears to be free will by humans is not really free will but rather a collection of accidents beyond human control; or a creator of the universe who has given man free will.

This guy (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/852801/bill_wiese_23_minutes_in_hell/) went to hell for reals. He says it's a real physical place with fire and snakes and maggots and mutants. Nobody could possibly make this up. Must be true. We all know that maggots are evil.

I wonder what takes the most faith…a universe where all events are accidents and what appears to be free will by humans is not really free will but rather a collection of accidents beyond human control; or a creator of the universe who has given man free will.

Hi, hadn't you noticed? Accidents happen.

Hi, hadn't you noticed? Accidents happen.
Strange that death (Belonging to the category Hell) is often not accidental. :)

Luke 16:23-24
23 And in hell he lift his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
(KJV)

As far as I know, this is the only description of what Hell is like. Jesus said it, and so for Christians, that settles the matter. It is not the same as the Lake of Fire, and the devil doesn't rule there. He has never been there, will never be there since his destiny is to go directly to the Lake of Fire where he will be punished etrenally for his crimes against God and humanity.

I believe that there is a hell. It can be a state of mind on this earth and also a way of being in the afterlife. I don't have to prove that it exists because I have faith that it does. And, that's okay. God doesn't ask us to understand everything, but only to have faith and believe.

A person can believe what they want to believe and live with what they want to believe. It's a matter of choice... I will die by myself and also have to live with the premises of what I believe after I die. That is my choice and I accept the fact that I believe that and don't have to prove it to anyone that I believe it to be true. According to my Christian faith that I follow, it is my obligation to be a witness to others that the beliefs that I have are true so that others might have a choice to also believe the same thing, if they so choose. But, I am under no obligation to prove it to them. Just to be a witness by my actions, words and deeds that I am living according to the precepts dictated by what I believe.

I don't have to have objective proof in order to live my life as I see fit according to what I believe and have faith in. Thank you.

I don't have to have objective proof in order to live my life as I see fit according to what I believe and have faith in. Thank you.


Your response sounds so angry? Why is that?

This is my belief based on my relationship with my higher power. I do have faith that there IS a higher power than myself. I call him God but I believe you can call him/it anything you want. I say this to show that I TOO have faith in things you can not prove or see.

However, I believe that the essence of us is our SPIRIT or as Eckhart Tolle calls it, our being. Not our physical form. When we die, our form is buried, cremated, or eaten by sharks if we were dropped in the ocean. I believe our essence has and will always exist. We exist in a level of consciousness of bliss (heaven)or the opposite(hell). What is the point of a physical location of heaven or hell when we are no longer physical beings ourselves? It would have no meaning to us.

Of course none of us KNOWS anything. Our faith and our personal beliefs are really all we have to work with. Not everyone takes the Bible as proof. Imagine all the room for error as it has been translated, and rewritten (by mere mortals) through the years. When you quote scripture with me, I don't believe it hook line and sinker. So don't bother.

I believe what is in my heart, gut, and soul contribute more to my beliefs than any other source. That is how my God speaks to me.

Originally Posted by cozyk
Your response sounds so angry? Why is that?

I do apologize to you, cozyk and anyone else posting on this thread, if what I have posted sounds angry and seems to be a response to this thread that you have started. There are at least a couple of posts that are missing from your thread.

My posts here really aren't a response to what you have started on this thread. But, are a response to someone who came on here last night and was posting things here and on other threads that appeared to be attempts to just start arguments about what people believe.

That person's posts here and on other threads have now been removed and that former member has also been removed from this site.

I'm sorry about the confusion here!

I do apologize to you, cozyk and anyone else posting on this thread, if what I have posted sounds angry and seems to be a response to this thread that you have started. There are at least a couple of posts that are missing from your thread.

My posts here really aren't a response to what you have started on this thread. But, are a response to someone who came on here last night and was posting things here and on other threads that appeared to be attempts to just start arguments about what people believe.

That person's posts here and on other threads have now been removed and that former member has also been removed from this site.

I'm sorry about the confusion here!

;) No problem, thank you for clearing this up.

Despite what you may have heard, the concept of hell is an invention of religion. The concept did not even come about until the 15th (or so) century

Lets look at it from a logical standpoint. If you believe in God, you know that the bible teaches you that "God is Love" and "We are his children".

Now think about this; If you had a child that did something really bad, would you punish it with torture... for ever and ever and ever and ever etc.

Of cause you wouldn't . Also, the bible tells us that "The payment for all sins is death" So, basically, if you are a bad individual of whom God would never approve, you would simply die. You would go in to total oblivion, never to be mentioned again.

God can see deep into our hearts. He can determine whether you are worthy or whether you should just be gone forever.

Now, you will find that many people will try to quote you with scriptures to prove their case. You will hear about "sheol" and "hades". But when we go back to the original scriptures for these words, you will find that they are not what people are calling "Hell"

The concept of hell is highly illogical. It was invented to get people to come to church and give. It was instituted by the churches as a ploy.

[QUOTE=LifePaparazzi]Despite what you may have heard, the concept of hell is an invention of religion. The concept did not even come about until the 15th (or so) century

How can you make this statement? Jesus preached about Hell more than possibly any one else recorded in the Bible, and that was way earlier than the 15th century.

To me I see hell as a literal yet abstract place. For example the 'burning' in hell I see like when your emotions are strong, like say you get embarrassed or something and you feel like you are burning up inside. I think it is sort of like that with hell when peoples sins are 'revealed' to them. Their emotions will burn from knowing the hurt and torment they caused by the wrongs they did.
That is just the way I picture it but not necessarily how it is.

[F]:) [

I've gone back and read every post in this thread. I've come to a conclusion that I already had for quite awhile. You can find a verse in the bible to support just about anything you want. You can even pick because there is conflicting scripture about the same subject. And then, on top of that, you exercise your right for interpretation of that scripture. No wonder there is so much confusion in the christian faith.:rolleyes:

Heaven and Hell?? are you serious?
You're asking people all over the world to start talking about this?
If you're catholic, ask your preist and even he will try to skirt the question.
It's all about faith. In order to have faith that there's a heaven, there needs to be an equal and opposite plain of existence. If it weren't for fear of hell Evil would be more prevailant for two reasons, firstly... If Evil isn't in Hell, it has to be here among us. and secondly... People would have nothing to fear as repercussion.
If you have faith then you believe blindly. If you truly have faith then no matter what you hear from others, Hell is a very real place.
I must disclaim however that while I took religious studies and religious education for many years I am an athiest. I do not believe in heaven, hell, white utopian paradises or firey pits.

Not believing in something does not make it either exist or not , you can stand directly in front of me and I can pretend that you're not there , but that does not change the fact that you're there
The fact that I can awake each morning and see the beauty of creation , the sunrise , the world around me in all it's splendor makes me to know that there is a God that created all of this , as for the radar effect , God placed in each of us a conscience that , while some folks don't heed that inner voice that tells them that hey what you just did is wrong ,that does not mean it is not there, they just did not heed it
Now if there is good then there must be evil ,the scales must be balance so if I believe that God created a heaven , which I do believe he did , then to balance that scale there must be a hell.