Do you think God intended for us to bicker back and forth….yes he exsist….no he doesn't. I'm right …your wrong. Would he be proud of “Christians” and how they spread the word, how they share His Love?

How do you think He feels when we do bicker back and forth?

How do you think He would respond to those who do not believe He exsist?

If God came down to earth today (in physical being form)– who would he walk over and hug first

1) Someone who has worked in a homeless shelter, A loving and caring neighbor, parent friend, but either chose or just does not believe that God exsist.

Or

2) A person who professes to love God but has orally condemened # 1 to eternal hell for their non-belief that He exsist.


For those of you who have children... How does it make you feel when your children fight amongst themselves?

This is very deep.

I believe that every person should have a faith, and that said faith be in god.

It is hard to say how God will respond because quit frankly, no one knows. But by not knowing, will that make someone believe or not?

I think that the people he sees that have faith will be left alone and the ones who don't will be approached, but who knows as to what would actually happen.

Are you a Christian?

I think that He would expect some controversy.
Exist or not, may not be a question for some.
How and where is a constant question.
The ideals of right and wrong exist, maybe not in a building that's occupied only on certain days.
Did He want to be acknowledged in a building, or in our hearts and in our homes?
I don't attend church, nor do I capitulate to organized religion, but I know and do what's right. Does that mean I won't get a hug? I hope it means I'm still in that long line. :)

Are you a Christian?

To be quite honest, I don't know. :o

I was raised Catholic, I am Catholic. I love God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Catholic faith just suits me, it's perfect for me, but I respect all faiths.

It was till I got older that I heard the term Christians.

So, am I? Would you consider me a Christian? (not being smart - I really am asking)

If someone were to ask me, I would and have responded Catholic.

Does that mean I won't get a hug? I hope it means I'm still in that long line. :)


Oh of course you do. :)

I was just trying to paint a verbal picture and take a snapshot of things that I wonder and see.

Honestly, I think God would be pleased with Person #1 and perhaps not so completely pleased with Person #2.

To be quite honest, I don't know. :o

I was raised Catholic, I am Catholic. I love God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Catholic faith just suits me, it's perfect for me, but I respect all faiths.

It was till I got older that I heard the term Christians.

So, am I? Would you consider me a Christian? (not being smart - I really am asking)

If someone were to ask me, I would and have responded Catholic.

To be truthful I don't think there is that much a difference between Catholic and Christian.

Both faiths believe in the Lord and that is what matters right?

I am not going to lable you a Christian or Catholic but simply you have a strong faith.

What makes you a Christain and what makes you a Catholic?

To be truthful I don't think there is that much a difference between Catholic and Christian.

Both faiths believe in the Lord and that is what matters right?

I am not going to lable you a Christian or Catholic but simply you have a strong faith.

What makes you a Christain and what makes you a Catholic?


That's how I saw it as well. I also always thought we shouldn't wear lables anyway. I think that's how things get tricky.

Thanks

1) Someone who has worked in a homeless shelter, A loving and caring neighbor, parent friend, but either chose or just does not believe that God exsist.

Allheart I don't think anyone Chooses to believe or not to believe. They just do what comes natural for them.
How can you be condemend for what your mind will or will not allow?

I for instance have always been told that If I don't change my ways I'm going to hell. Now this was not said in malice but in tears and fears that I really am going to hell.
I explained it this way to my mom. I lay down each night with no fear in my heart of what will happen to me should I not wake up.
Am I sure there is a God? no. I'm not sure there isn't one either.
Did I choose to think this way? No, this is just how I am.
If there is a God he will understand and if there isn't one then it won't matter.

I believe a "sinner" that is happy and comfortable in what they do and how they live, without hate in their heart is better off than those professed christians that are looking down their noses at others. At least we are happy and not concerned with someone else's every move, watching and waiting so we can point our finger.

If there is a God how terrible he must feel to know that his followers have so much hate and judgement in their souls. He must be so ashamed and wonder where he went wrong to watch his children rip others apart.

I have meet Christian people on here and in life that I say to myself "if that is how Christains act then I know I don't want any part of it". Those that never miss a chance to make snide remarks to show the world they are right , they do nothing but turn people away. I don't care what the cause is. If you notice, those are the ones that blow up and go away instead of standing firm in their convictions. They run to where "their truth" will be accepted with praise or they stick around but will not acknowledge anyone with respect that does not share in their same belief system.

Allheart I believe if there is a God and he walked on earth in form of a man that he would not accept or hug one over the other. He may hug one with a lighter heart and the other one with a heavier heart, but I believe his hugs would be the same for all.

I believe a "sinner" that is happy and comfortable in what they do and how they live, without hate in their heart is better off than those professed christians that are looking down their noses at others. At least we are happy and not concerned with someone elses every move, watching and waiting so we can point our finger.

( Oh bushg so very true!!!)

If there is a God how terrible he must feel to know that his followers have so much hate and judgement in their souls. He must be so ashamed and wonder where he went wrong to watch his children rip others apart.

(Agan so true, and that is just what I was taught. It hurts Him deeply for us to be at each other)

I have meet Christian people on here and in life that I say to myself "if that is how Christains act then I know I don't want any part of it". Those that never miss a chance to make snide remarks to show the world they are right , they do nothing but turn people away. I don't care what the cause is. If you notice, those are the ones that blow up and go away instead of standing firm to their convictions. They run to where "their truth" will be accepted with praise or they stick around but will not acknowledge anyone with respect that does not share their same belief system.

( So very true again )

Allheart I believe if there is a God and he walked on earth in form of a man that he would not accept or hug one over the other. He may hug one with a lighter heart and the other one with a heavier heart, but I believe his hugs would be the same for all.


Bushg that is beautiful!! Hope you don't mind me saying, but I just adore your heart and you. I'm ashamed that I didn't see it that way as well. You are so right. Of course he would not hug one over the other... aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh Allheart you know better than that!! I just loved what you shared Bushg... Thank you.

I am so sorry about saying "chose not to beleive". Someone once said that to me, that they choose not to believe so I wanted to get it right, but here I didn't. I'm sorry.

Do you think God intended for us to bicker back and forth…

Interesting topic. Worth investigating.


.yes he exsist….no he doesn’t. I’m right …your wrong.

What does Scripture say:

Ephesians 5 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

2 Timothy 4 2 Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine.


Would he be proud of “Christians” and how they spread the word, how they share His Love?

For the most part. Not always though.

Apparently that is what Paul thought he was supposed to do:

Acts Of Apostles 17 17 He disputed, therefore, in the synagogue with the Jews, and with them that served God, and in the marketplace, every day with them that were there.

And we are called to imitate Paul:

1 Corinthians 11 1 Be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ.


How do you think He feels when we do bicker back and forth?

He is saddened when believers bicker back and forth. We are His children.


How do you think He would respond to those who do not believe He exsist?

Psalms 13 1 Unto the end, a psalm for David. The fool hath said in his heart: There is no God, They are corrupt, and are become abominable in their ways: there is none that doth good, no not one.



If God came down to earth today (in physical being form)– who would he walk over and hug first

To whom did He appear always in Salvation History? Always to the Just.

I can think of no example in Scripture where God appeared to a non believer except to punish them. Compare Moses and Pharaoh. He blessed Moses and punished Pharaoh.

Can you think of any examples where God appeared to a non believer?


1) Someone who has worked in a homeless shelter, A loving and caring neighbor, parent friend, but either chose or just does not believe that God exsist.

Again. The Revelation of God is clear. Without faith it is impossible to please God. And that is only logical.

Lets take an example. Say someone loves you and your children but hates your mom and dad. And insults your mom and dad at every opportunity.

Do you expect your mom and dad to love that person as they love you?


Or

2) A person who professes to love God but has orally condemened # 1 to eternal hell for their non-belief that He exsist.

Well, St. Paul loves God, doesn't he:

1 Corinthians 16 22 If any man love not our Lord Jesus Christ, let him be anathema, maranatha.

Essentially, St. Paul, in the Word of God has condemned any man who does not love Jesus Christ to hell.


For those of you who have children... How does it make you feel when your children fight amongst themselves?

I think that is where you are making your mistake. Although God created all mankind, many men do not recognize God's Divine Fatherhood. God is Just. He does not force men to love Him. But He recognizes those who do and considers them His children.

John 10 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice: and I know them, and they follow me. 28 And I give them life everlasting; and they shall not perish for ever, and no man shall pluck them out of my hand

Colossians 3 6 For which things the wrath of God cometh upon the children of unbelief,

Philippians 2 15 That you may be blameless, and sincere children of God, without reproof, in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation; among whom you shine as lights in the world.

So, although God wants all men to come to salvation. Many men do not want God's salvation.

The reason I debate with these atheists is because they have their own little section in this forum. But they would rather come here and attack our Christian beliefs.

Is it fair that they should attack our faith with impunity?

You can check all you want in the atheist forums. You won't find me there. I came to this forum to answer questions of the faith.

Sincerely,

De Maria

The reason I debate with these atheists is because they have their own little section in this forum. But they would rather come here and attack our Christian beliefs.

Well, I either confused this with another forum or I assumed atheists had their own little corner in which they could discuss their unbelief.

In a brief search of the forum I couldn't find it. So unless I missed it, maybe they should request the mods create one. It might reduce a great deal of the bickering on this forum.

Sincerely,

De Maria

No, those that hate God come looking for the Christian site, ( funny they don't seem to attack the other faiths for their beleifs in their gods)

But it is amazing at how much time and energy people who claim not to believe in a God, spend trashing and trying to tell others there is no god.

As Jesus called those in power a Pit of vipers, and over turned the money lenders in the temple, those that oppose Christ and God on the Christian forums would most likely be treated the same way by God.

And of course Christ would love them all and tell them to accept him and follow them, so I wonder how many unbelievers are ready to drop what they are doing and follow Christ if he is calling them.

I can not thank you all enough for your beautiful and heartfelt responses.

I did also wonder why those who do not believe specifically come to areas where the topics are about believing.

Some may think it is like a snake slithering around trying to create upset, discontent and disbeleif or could it be one of our lost brother and sisters seeking and searching for answers.

I tend to believe it is one of our lost brothers and sisters, who are as much children of God as we are, and have lost their way, and somewhere within them are trying to find there way back.

I am so grateful for all of your caring responses.

I requested an atheists board, but management turned me down.

Doesn't lack of religion fall under general religious discussions. I think it being under the member area, so that the reds don't fly when someone states an opinion has been an improvement.

no, those that hate God come looking for the Christian site, ( funny they don't seem to attack the other faiths for thier beleifs in thier gods)People would not even comprehend the amount of gods that you hate.

I think this category-religious discussions-is just fine for theists and atheists to have discussions.

Discussions for theists, especially Chuck, is innuendo, speaking for god! insults to atheists, and ignorance.

Interesting topic. Worth investigating.

What does Scripture say:

Ephesians 5 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

2 Timothy 4 2 Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine.

De Maria, you are exactly right! Frankly, I cannot believe how one who professes to go to Church and "believes" can be so mislead as to go and side with those who profess no faith in God. It is truly sad to see that happening.

To whom did He appear always in Salvation History? Always to the Just.

Exactly right again! And when Jesus sat with publicans and sinners it was always to allow them to hear His word and give them the opportunity to Change from their evil, un-Believing ways or He quickly departed from them.

I can think of no example in Scripture where God appeared to a non believer except to punish them. Compare Moses and Pharoah. He blessed Moses and punished Pharoah.

What you are saying here, again, is Biblical. Sad should be he or she who would dispute Scripture in order to gain another to his side at the expense of God and His word.

Can you think of any examples where God appeared to a non believer?

No, except to punish them for being non-believers and evil-doers in their thought, words and deeds.

Again. The Revelation of God is clear. Without faith it is impossible to please God. And that is only logical.

Of course it is. Quite logical. Scripture defines faith this way. "Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him." -- HEBREWS 10:38 (KJV). Now, who do you think He is talking about? The un-Believers, the infidels who come to criticize the word of God and those so-called "Christians" who follow them, instead of God.

Well, St. Paul loves God, doesn't he:

1 Corinthians 16 22 If any man love not our Lord Jesus Christ, let him be anathema, maranatha.

Essentially, St. Paul, in the Word of God has condemned any man who does not love Jesus Christ to hell.

And no doubt that is why God has Him in Heaven at this time and He was made a Saint, for his following God's word and teaching those who do not believe -- the difference in being blind and seeing God's True Light.

I think that is where you are making your mistake. Although God created all mankind, many men do not recognize God's Divine Fatherhood. God is Just. He does not force men to love Him. But He recognizes those who do and considers them His children.

That is intuitively obvious to any Born Again Christian. But yet, there are some who wish to willfully give a place at the table to infidel sinners despite these teachings from God, thereby denying themselves to be in alignment with God's teachings and gravitating away from God's recognition of them.

John 10 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice: and I know them, and they follow me. 28 And I give them life everlasting; and they shall not perish for ever, and no man shall pluck them out of my hand

That is so true. Many infidels will close their eyes and shut their ears to the teachings of God from those who have God in their heart. They are very annoyed at hearing God's word and will take every swipe they can at those who profess the Word. It is because they do not Believe, because they are not of God's sheep that they will never "get it" about what it means to truly accept Jesus into their heart and Love and Adore Him as their Savior. But when they stand before Him at judgment day, they may even have the nerve to tell Him that they did "good works", expecting for Him to welcome them into Heaven with that when the Holy Bible says it does not work that way. Good works are wonderful, but along with that, those doing the good works should become Born Again Christians and accept Jesus into their lives in order for Him to accept them into Heaven at their appointed time and Save them. Otherwise, they remain un-Saved according to Scripture as there is No Other Way to Heaven Except Through Jesus Christ.

Colossians 3 6 For which things the wrath of God cometh upon the children of unbelief,

And yet, infidels read and re-read this passage and still continue in their ways. But they will see and taste the sour fruits their seeds have borne. Some already do and are thus reconsidering their stance on this important matter and are coming to Christ. Praise Be His Most Holy Name!

Philippians 2 15 That you may be blameless, and sincere children of God, without reproof, in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation; among whom you shine as lights in the world.

So, although God wants all men to come to salvation. Many men do not want God's salvation.

And sad it is for those who do not. For there will be plenty of crying and gnashing of teeth when they pass from this world. But they have made their hole, they must thus lie in it un-Saved.

The reason I debate with these atheists is because they have their own little section in this forum. But they would rather come here and attack our Christian beliefs.

Is it fair that they should attack our faith with impunity?

Of course not! But I think inner fear drives many of them to do it. They think that it will somehow empower them by joining together and attacking Christian beliefs. But what they don't know is that God is watching their every step and silently jotting down all He sees, in the Book of Life, and will open it up when they stand in judgment before Him and read to them what they did to reject Him while they were on Earth. Their final resting place? God will surely deliver them to the most appropriate place that coincides with just how much they believed in Him.

You can check all you want in the atheist forums. You won't find me there. I came to this forum to answer questions of the faith.

As have I, De Maria! God Bless You for that. Our faith is STRONG and shall remain that way as God's word empowers us to be proclaimers of our Christian Faith.

"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:" -- ROMANS 5:1 (KJV)

And to those Christians who speak with faith to infidels and other un-Believers, Scripture has these words:

"That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God." -- 1 CORINTHIANS 2:5 (KJV). That is all I need to know that what other Christians and I do here in these forums, defending the faith, is right and according to God's expectations. So, we will not be belittled by infidels and their sympathizers when we speak of God's word and teachings with our Christian passion.

Sincerely,

De Maria
I only hope those who are unfortunately being mis-lead into thinking that God loves those who only do good deeds but that they do not have to accept Him into their heart, come to quickly know the error of their way of thinking according to Biblical teachings as you have so eloquently presented.

Would you consider me a Christian?

The Catholic Church is the first organized Christian church. From that church has sprung many others including the Protestant denominations.

Psalms 13 1 Unto the end, a psalm for David. The fool hath said in his heart: There is no God, They are corrupt, and are become abominable in their ways: there is none that doth good, no not one.

Sincerely,

De Maria

What more can I add to the irrefutable Word of God when that Scripture says it all like it is!

What more can I add to the irrefutable Word of God when that Scripture says it all like it is!

Yes, Scott I understand what you are saying. When, I read a bible passage such as that, God is speaking to you as an individual and me as an individual and all of us as individuals. Like a teacher standing in front of the class.

It is my belief that we are not to condemn one another - for in doing that you step into God's shoes and that I believe is wrong.

Please, read each of these bible versus. You must embrace and hold these true as well?
To me, it is our calling to love one another with God's love in our hearts, and in doing that, we may bring others to know His love. Any type of punishment is addressed to us as individuals and not to place on one another. Hope I am saying that right.

Please Sky - read these. Even though I am sure you know them read them again and again. I will do the same.

God commands us to love.
Here are some key Scriptures (Bible verses) on loving your enemies:

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another (John 13:34).

But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you (Luke 6:27-28).

Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse (Romans 12:14).

We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it (1 Corinthians 4:12).

Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good (Romans 12:17-21).
Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing (1 Peter 3:9).

Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble (1 John 2:9-10).

Our highest calling is to spread the Gospel and help others grow in Christ.

Yes, Scott I understand what you are saying. When, I read a bible passage such as that, God is speaking to you as an individual and me as an individual and all of us as individuals. Like a teacher standing in front of the class.

In other words, just like in a classroom, some get it, what Scripture is actually telling us as in 2 CORINTHIANS 6:14-18 (KJV), but some don't. I do clearly understand that.

It is my beleif that we are not to condemn one another - for in doing that you step into God's shoes and that I believe is wrong.

Agreed! That is clearly in God's domain. It is therefore, God's Words that I have used and continue to use to relay that thought to hopefully instill in people in order to teach others the difference between what God expects of un-Believers and what man expects.

"He that believeth on Him (Jesus Christ) is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." -- JOHN 3:18 (KJV)

So, clearly infidels - un-Believers and others who do not embrace Jesus Christ are clearly already CONDEMNED by God. There is no middle way or ground here, no, not even by hoping to Love One Another is that going to Save people who do not Love and Accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. We can certainly continue to Love them (as I do) in the hopes that they will care enough about themselves and their eternal soul such as to want to Change and become Saved, but that is all we can do. The rest is up to them.

Please, read each of these bible versus. You must embrace and hold these true as well?
To me, it is our calling to love one another with God's love in our hearts, and in doing that, we may bring others to know His love. Any type of punishment is addressed to us as individuals and not to place on one another. Hope I am saying that right.

I understand what you are trying to say here. Love IS the key! But if a parent truly loves their child and sees that their child or children are going in the wrong direction, in that love the parent has for them, it is clearly their obligation to guide them and steer them the right way so that they can avoid the pitfalls many make who are uninformed about how things work in the long run (in this case, by not being Saved).

Please Sky - read these. Even though I am sure you know them read them again and again. I will do the same.

I have read them, believe me, and know them by heart. But if I did not have a loving heart, Allheart, why would I spend most of my time coming to these forums and having discourse with people who do not Believe? After all, I have plenty of other things to do that I could be doing. The answer is that I LOVE people and want only the very best for each and every individual. I want for their soul and spirit to be Saved when they pass on. I want for them to know the happiness that I know in being Saved as a Born Again Christian. It hurts no one except those who are so deeply entrenched in their way of thinking that they could not see the Light if it was shining directly and very brightly in their eyes. Sadly, there are those who will not see the Light ever. Again, that is their choice. But should I stop my mission from teaching those who will listen? Never. Those who clearly show they will not listen, I do not have discourse with repeatedly just as Jesus spoke and ate with sinners once but if they did not heed His words enough to want to change, He left them to their evil ways. So do I in following His fine and wonderful example. That is why I see who is amenable and I continue to speak to them. Those who are not amenable to the word of God, I cease direct communication as they have made their free will choice in the matter. I am greatly saddened when I run across them, but it is their choice.

God commands us to love.
Here are some key Scriptures (Bible verses) on loving your enemies:

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another (John 13:34).

But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you (Luke 6:27-28).

Exactly Right! Therefore, I am asking each and every Believer in this forum to PRAY for those who mistreat us, for those who hate us, for those who curse us in teaching them about Jesus Christ and Salvation! They do need our prayers and though they feel they don't and may jump to the occassion to say it many times, prayers hurt no one but can only help those who need it the most. Thank you for citing these important Scriptures that should remind all of us to PRAY MORE in Love and concern for infidels.

Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse (Romans 12:14).

I do BLESS the lost that they may find their way! May they fully feel the tremendous Power of Jesus Christ speaking to them in their heart very soon!

We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it (1 Corinthians 4:12).

We do endure it, who could know better than I, that is why I am still here. It is a life-long mission to try to Save the un-Saved and no one should coward out of that mission for our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Our un-Believing brothers and sisters need us now and we must be there to show them the way. By the way, those who have become "petrified" in their non-belief in God and Salvation is one thing, but there are many others who come to visit these forums who do not ever post anything but they read everything, it is they whom I am also trying to reach with God's word! May Almighty God help me to achieve that goal!

Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good (Romans 12:17-21).
Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing (1 Peter 3:9).

Yes! This is a wonderful reminder that we should certainly continue our mission to help the lost! Thank you for this. And as the ending words so clearly state " .... to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing." I understand that only too well and embrace that. God knows I come to help others hear His word and He will move unto them in His own time. For He knows who will follow Him unto Heaven and who will not. I wish and pray that ALL who come here will follow God to Heaven one day. It will sadden me greatly to learn that many will reject Christ and therefore, not assure their Salvation. It may be hard for you to understand, but it does hurt me plenty when I encounter those brothers and sisters who choose not to Believe.

Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble (1 John 2:9-10).

Let us ALL, therefore, in the Light of God, Love our brothers (and sisters) enough to continue teaching them lovingly the Word of God so that one day, they may surprise us by coming to this very forum and revealing that they have now fully become Christians and Born Again and have finally seen that Light in their heart! I pray this is so and I will continue with my loving prayers for them.

Our highest calling is to spread the Gospel and help others grow in Christ.
You are so right, Allheart, with your ending message! That IS , unequivocally, our highest calling. Thank you for this fruitful discussion. May all who have not been called to bring God's word to the God-less, hear that and join us in our effort to help others grow in Christ! Amen and Amen!

___________________
"He that believeth on Him (Jesus Christ) is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." -- JOHN 3:18 (KJV)

You are so right, Allheart, with your ending message! That IS , unequivocally, our highest calling. Thank you for this fruitful discussion. May all who have not been called to bring God's word to the God-less, hear that and join us in our effort to help others grow in Christ! Amen and Amen! I and others will hope that you will leave that cult and god that you are involved with and join us in reality. You can do it!

You are so right, Allheart, with your ending message! That IS , unequivocally, our highest calling. Thank you for this fruitful discussion. May all who have not been called to bring God's word to the God-less, hear that and join us in our effort to help others grow in Christ! Amen and Amen!

___________________
"He that believeth on Him (Jesus Christ) is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." -- JOHN 3:18 (KJV)


Hi Scott -

Thank you for all that you wrote. I have not read all of it yet but I will. The part that caught my eye was "Allheart you were right :D (that rarely happens).

But I must tell you, That was not my words... about the hightest calling... I left that on the website, so I didn't want to give the appearance that they were my words.

If they were my thoughts... I probably would say...

Our Highest calling is to know God, love God, share God with others and love one another.

I am so sorry to everyone - I wouldn't want to take credit for someone else's words.
And you know the scriptures weren't mine either right :).

I'll take the time to read all that you wrote.

Thank you.

You are so right, Allheart, with your ending message! That IS , unequivocally, our highest calling. Thank you for this fruitful discussion. May all who have not been called to bring God's word to the God-less, hear that and join us in our effort to help others grow in Christ! Amen and Amen!

___________________
"He that believeth on Him (Jesus Christ) is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." -- JOHN 3:18 (KJV)


Hi again Sky -

I did read all that you wrote and first I do want to say, I do not question the love you have for others, just trying to sort through it all.

I do agree with all that you are saying - with one slight exception and that is turning away from those who do not believe in God or accept them.

I think there is a difference between someone who has not accepted God in their heart yet, and so continues to respectfully question, even dispute - basically have a respectful disucssion and those who have attack in their heart and wish harm, even just with words.


Yes, the later I pray for and shut myself off from, but if they ever came back around with a kind heart, then of course we would open ours to them as well.

I think those who differ from us, but wish us no harm and are kind should never be turned away. Don't you agree. I feel who am I to turn away from anyone.


Keep spreading God's love and thank you for your time.

Allheart

Hi again Sky -

Warm greetings, Allheart.

I did read all that you wrote and first I do want to say, I do not question the love you have for others, just trying to sort through it all.

I do agree with all that you are saying - with one slight exception and that is turning away from those who do not beleive in God or accept them.

Yet, Scripture is very clear about that as previously mentioned. However, each person has their own mind to act along with their free will choice.

I think there is a difference between someone who has not accepted God in their heart yet, and so continues to respectfully question, even dispute - basically have a respectful disucssion and those who have attack in their heart and wish harm, even just with words.

The key word is "respectfully question", however, I do not see that happening here. For instance, I have never read a post from an anti-Christian that would indicate that they want to learn more about Jesus and then question how that can be done. What I do see is the postings from anti-Christians who go on the attack when Christians try to show them the word of God. Yet, we just have to ask ourselves, what are they doing here then if they are not trying to learn about God's word and prefer to attack us for our trying to help them understand how to become Saved! It is sad that they have to enter into a Christianity forum with ulterior motives and spew forth their hate for God and those who believe in God. We, however, turn the other cheek and just continue to show them the way towards Heaven, with love, as I have said before.

Yes, the later I pray for and shut myself off from, but if they ever came back around with a kind heart, then of course we would open ours to them as well.

But remember that there is more to having just a kind heart. It is having the kind of heart that accepts Jesus as their Savior instead of crucifying Him all over again as many do.

I think those who differ from us, but wish us no harm and are kind should never be turned away. Don't you agree. I feel who am I to turn away from anyone.

The very fact that anti-Christians come to this forum to attack Christianity, makes me also strongly think, on the other hand, that they also come to want to learn more about Jesus to be SAVED one day, otherwise, why keep coming back, right! I'm sure you've heard of people who attack others who are different because deep down they may have the same feelings but just can't come out and express them and it is so frustrating to them they go on the attack instead. Therefore, the more we discuss, the more they LEARN and the more they learn about Jesus, the more their hearts will Open Up enough to Accept Him as their Lord and Savior one day. I may be proved wrong with some, but I would at least want to give them the benefit of the doubt and the chance to Save themselves.

I would just like to know why infidels and others like them are so Afraid of Jesus? I mean, since well over a Billion people are Christians around the world today and believe in being Saved, and being Saved simply means saying a few words accepting Jesus as having died and then resurrected and that He is the Only Begotten Son of God who came to Save us, it is most difficult for me to understand why they would not do that and therefore relieve their mind from knowing they will one day die un-Saved. They would be SAVED after accepting Jesus. That is all there is to it according to Scripture. Therefore, why hesitate! If I was not a Believer and someone told me by saying just these few words you will become a Born Again Christian and don't have to worry about being damned for eternity when you pass on (which could come at any time for literally anyone), that would sound like music to my ears! I would unequivocally do that just to ensure my soul and spirit would truly rest in peace instead of my remaining stubborn because who else would truly care what happens to my soul when I'm gone except Jesus Christ! And the best part is that there's no cost attached to it other than not going to Heaven and remaining un-Saved if I didn't say the words that could Save me.

Keep spreading God's love and thank you for your time.

Allheart

Allheart, you know me pretty well by now, you know I Will continue spreading God's Love and His Word! I know there are plenty of anti-Christians and non-Christians who want to learn more about Jesus and about being Saved who visit here, so may God's words, through His messengers, reach them and open their ears and eyes to see that which leads to Heaven for all eternity. And if I have to take my lumps for Jesus then I will PROUDLY take them if it means that even one soul can be Saved!

Hi Sky,

If I may ask, how long ago did you learn about God and what was it that you learned? The very first ideals about God and having him in your life.

For me, it was probably as soon as I was born and my ears popped open. Follwing my faith and being a good Catholic ( and a good girl ) was my Mom's number 1 priority and it was her Mom's #1 priority. I am indebted to both my Mom and Grandma for the gift of faith. How fortuante I was. It was an understood part of my upbringing, just like learning to walk and talk, just was a part of me.

Some grow up the same way, and some don't. One I first learned about God, it was how he loved me and I guess I was fortuante that the lessons didn't rush to damnation.

So for those who may just be learning, or already know, but for some reason have turned away, I would think it would be a harsh thrust to their chest to only hear, unless you accept Jesus Christ, you are going to hell. I had the benefit of loving Our Lord.

You say you don't understand, because it is so easy. Yes, it is for you. You know Our Loving Lord, but there are those who don't and have a blind spot to it all.

It would be like someone coming up to you, and asking you to trust and believe a perfect stranger whom you never have met before and trust no other.

Does that make any sense. I am not defending by no means. I am just explaining why it would be difficult for some.

I feel so blessed to have been taught at such a young age and the lessons never stopped and still don't. I shutter to think if Mom didn't give me that gift of faith. I'd have to feel my way around as an adult and we all know, it so much easier learning when we are younger.

Does any of this make sense?

Thank you.

How can you spot a Godless person anyhow? Are they like Jim Jones... or David Koresh. Or do they like, bite off chicken heads? How do you know for sure? Or maybe you can't spot them cause they do all their evil deeds in the dark under cover? I don't know. Just wondering.
Now if I were to just take a wild guess, I would say this nasty looking critter was one of them: Listen closely to what he has to say!
YouTube - John Hagee Jesus NOT Messiah(audio|video perfect) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8khCJTDD44)

Hi Sky,

Warm greetings, Allheart.

If I may ask, how long ago did you learn about God and what was it that you learned? The very first ideals about God and having him in your life.

Like you, it was as a baby that I can recall seeing Christian pictures on the walls of the house which I later recognized as being Jesus and His Holy Family and I was even younger than the little boy in the picture to the left of your posting who is praying. Indeed, even as a baby, I was taken to church by my mother. I recall the church music and choir which I liked to hear as it was very soothing and beautiful. No harsh tones but only loving, angelic music. I have incredible recollection, by the way, of when I was a baby. Some people seem to not remember those times but I do and can even recall drinking my baby formula and seeing my relatives come over to visit.

When I got a little older, I learned that God was the most important person in my life. That without Him, I would not be able to go to Heaven when I passed on. I learned that He came to this world to Save us through His great sacrifice of being nailed to the cross and that He died, but then Resurrected after the third day and appeared to His apostles and others and stayed with them for forty days and nights before ascending into Heaven. I also learned of the many miracles He did which no other person has ever been able to do. Things like feeding the thousands with just a few loaves of bread and a few fish; walking on the waters; healing the sick; driving out demons; and even raising the dead. These are just a few of the things that any other prophet or idol cannot do and has never done or could do. It is the Only Begotten Son of God Jesus Christ who can do these things and so much more! I knew then that I wanted Him in my life forever! Especially, after learning that I would be Saved by merely accepting Him as my Lord and Savior. That is indeed a very small price to pay (as far as time is concerned and physical capacity which it takes none) but the rewards in doing that are awesome and guarantee my Salvation which is what makes it all so worth while!

For me, it was probably as soon as I was born and my ears popped open. Follwing my faith and being a good Catholic ( and a good girl ) was my Mom's number 1 priority and it was her Mom's #1 priority. I am indebted to both my Mom and Grandma for the gift of faith. How fortuante I was. It was an understood part of my upbringing, just like learning to walk and talk, just was a part of me.

I am very happy to learn that they helped to instill the most wonderful and prized possession of all, Faith in God!

Some grow up the same way, and some don't. One I first learned about God, it was how he loved me and I guess I was fortuante that the lessons didn't rush to damnation.

Indeed, when one is with God and has accepted Him, they do not have to worry about damnation. It is when one does not know God or has no interest in knowing God and His word that Christian Believers try to help them by letting them know, early on, the consequences of not Believing. This is due to our Love for each and every person whom God has made because He desires that ALL be Saved-- and yes, He made the infidels and un-Believers and anti-Christians too whether they want to believe that or not! He is their Heavenly Father who wants them to return to Him professing their acceptance of Him as their true Father.

So for those who may just be learning, or already know, but for some reason have turned away, I would think it would be a harsh thrust to their chest to only hear, unless you accept Jesus Christ, you are going to hell. I had the benefit of loving Our Lord.

But please understand that telling them anything else by side-stepping this most important issue is literally worthless to their soul as nothing can help Save them except Jesus Christ in their life. This revelation should not come as such a tremendous shock to them, it should make them feel very happy that they will not need to suffer once they die if they accept Him into their life. So many passages alert us to the fact that we should Believe in Him. They do not force it upon us because we all have free will, but the words do guide us, like a kind shepherd, to walk with God as He is so good, and our Loving Father in Heaven who cares and Loves us and is quick to forgive us of sin if we come to Him with contrite heart and ask for forgiveness. Accepting Jesus should not be a hard thing for those who already feel Him in their heart without even knowing Him. They just know that is the right thing to do. For others, unfortunately, it may take longer to accept Him and still others never may. Those latter two are the ones who may need to learn more about Him in order to make the choice between having eternal Spiritual LIFE and being spiritually dead without God's Light and His eternal Love to rescue them.

You say you don't understand, because it is so easy. Yes, it is for you. You know Our Loving Lord, but there are those who don't and have a blind spot to it all.

There are none so blind as those who will not see. But they can be led to See the Light, thereby, being blind no more! In this country, especially, literally everyone has heard about Jesus Christ. Therefore, while they may not know enough about Him, they know of Him and what He stands for. That is a good start. The rest can be taught to them.

It would be like someone coming up to you, and asking you to trust and believe a perfect stranger whom you never have met before and trust no other.

Does that make any sense. I am not defending by no means. I am just explaining why it would be difficult for some.

Yes, I understand what you are trying to say. It is because people are not perfect that many have difficulties making the Right Decision in their life. The difference between believing a perfect stranger whom I have never met before and trusting no other, and Believing in Jesus is vast. A stranger is a mere human who could perhaps help me in some way if I needed help at the time. Therefore, he or she could become a friend during my time of need. But Jesus is a most powerful friend and He can do so much more than just help one in some way because He is our Heavenly Father. He can literally SAVE your soul and spirit so that you do not have to worry about suffering eternally when you pass on (just consider the ramifications of not Believing). And for those who don't believe they will suffer without accepting God, what if they were to find out differently when they die? What then? By then it is too late and God would not want to infringe on that person's free will choice to have not accepted Him in life, thus, they may well end up in the appropriate place completely devoid of God and His mercy, Love and Salvation. But then, that is what non-Believers surely prefer isn't it? Of course they do! They don't want God's Love or His Light, otherwise, they would make haste to become Believers since it costs nothing to Believe, thereby guaranteeing Salvation to their soul.

God can grant me things I pray for no matter how difficult they may be (and He has!), He can give me great Inspiration, Happiness, Joy, Freedom, Love, Confidence, Compassion, Peace, Hope, Healing, Lead me to the right path, and most important of all Save Me, and give me so many other virtues that a mere mortal could not. He has literally created miracles in my life I am most happy to say! That is why I could not completely believe in mortal men when I have God through Jesus Christ in my life. Man, if honorable, could help me in certain ways for a short while, but God will ALWAYS be there for me as close as my prayers! And He can give me so much MORE such as Salvation, the one thing that counts for so much in my life and especially in my Spiritual Life when I leave this world! Do you understand the importance of God in a person's life now?

I feel so blessed to have been taught at such a young age and the lessons never stopped and still don't. I shutter to think if Mom didn't give me that gift of faith. I'd have to feel my way around as an adult and we all know, it so much easier learning when we are younger.

Does any of this make sense?

Thank you.

Yes, it does. It is indeed a blessing to have parents who teach us the Golden Rule and then care enough about us to follow-through and see that we are not led astray and end up on the wayward path without God in our life. Blessed are those who have such parents! May God bless them always and forever. For those who do not, and have never been taught about God, I and others are here to speak to you about God and how you need Him in your life. Once you have Jesus as your Savior, you have it ALL! What greater gift than in knowing that you will go to Heaven when you pass on and will see others and be reunited with them, people whom you loved in this life, but most importantly, that you will see your Creator who loves you and will be there at your special time of transition waiting for you with open arms and a Big Smile on His face as He welcomes you back Home! That is what makes me personally feel so special in having that kind of relationship with Jesus Christ, but the beautiful part about this is that literally anyone can have that too who asks to have Him in their life!

It is indeed a blessing to have parents who teach us the Golden RulePssst... the Golden Rule is not a christian concept, I learned it too.

Versions of the Golden Rule in 21 world religions (http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc.htm)

Hi Sky -

Once again you took such great time and I will do likewise to read all your shared.
I'm starting to feel bad with the amount of time and all that you are sharing, I just hope you don't get frustrated with me. I know you say you won't but let me know if you do.

I will read in greater detail. One thing did stand out, Sky, there is no guarantee that I am going to heaven just because I love and accept Jesus as my savior. I say that because in a span of 24 hours, I sin. No matter how small I still sin.

I do thank you and will be sure to read.

I hope you know I was not bragging about knowing God at an early age - because I wasn't.
I can remember sitting on the edge of my bed, and my feet didn't even touch the ground (which was a long time ago as I am a very tall girl) and prayed to God, and asking him to get me through something bad that I knew was going to happen. How good he was and is to me.

Anyway - I am grateful for the very early exposure and it made it so easy for me, so I guess I wonder why not for everyone.

I do love my little avaiter there. How cute. I found it when googling. Isn't it precious :)

Thank you again.

Hi again Sky -

I did read through it all and do understand what you are saying.
Only thing that I still wrestle with is turning away from our brothers and sisters who do not believe in God. (Doesn't that sound better then infidels - something about that word seems very harsh).

I do understand about not sugar coating the danger of not accepting Our Lord prior to dying.

Sky, you know what else I wonder. How do I get rewarded to go to heaven and have not suffered nowhere near as much the little child who starves every day ( I am sure you seen the commericals of the children all over the world). Now it is my belief, that those children when they pass go right into our Lord's arms. How is it I get to go too? Especially when I know there is suffering and do what amounts to nothing to have it removed and further more, have more clothes then I need, eat more food then I need to survive, so on and so on and so on. I think I would have a bit of atoning to do, don't you think so?

Hope I am not carrying this over the top.

Thanks again.

How can you spot a Godless person anyhow? Are they like Jim Jones...or David Koresh. Or do they like, bite off chicken heads? How do you know for sure? Or maybe you can't spot them cause they do all their evil deeds in the dark under cover? I don't know. Just wondering.
Now if I were to just take a wild guess, I would say this nasty looking critter was one of them: Listen closely to what he has to say!
YouTube - John Hagee Jesus NOT Messiah(audio|video perfect) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8khCJTDD44)

It is sometimes difficult to spot a God-less person just by looking at them. However, by getting to know them, you can quickly spot them by the fruits that they bear.

"Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? -- MATTHEW 7:16 (KJV)

It is sometimes difficult to spot a God-less person just by looking at them. However, by getting to know them, you can quickly spot them by the fruits that they bear.

"Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? -- MATTHEW 7:16 (KJV)

I actually believe and maybe I even see God in everyone, even those who do not believe in God.

I think it's a matter of how much that person allows Him to exsist within him. And then those who fight it... that's when all that inner turmoil begins and the harshness comes out, the anger the resentment.

I believe that God had or has a presence in everyone - no one is actually Godless - it's just a matter if they accept His prescence.

In answer to the original question, I'd like to quote a story:

"There is a beautiful story told of how one Christian dreamed that she saw three others at prayers. As they knelt the Master drew near to them.

As He approached the first of the three, He bent over her in tenderness and grace, with a smile full of radiant love and spoke to her in accents of purest, sweetest music. Leaving her, He came to the next but only placed His hand upon her bowed head, and gave her one look of loving approval. The third woman He passed almost abruptly without stopping for a word or glance. The woman in her dream said to herself, "How greatly He must love that first one, to the second He gave His approval, but none of the special demonstrations of love He gave the first; and the third must have grieved Him deeply, for He gave her no word at all and not even a passing look."

"I wonder what she had done, and why He made so much difference between them?" As she tried to account for the action of her Lord, He Himself stood by her and said: "O woman! How wrongly has thou interpreted Me. The first kneeling woman needs all the weight of My tenderness and care to keep her feet in My narrow way. She needs My love, thought and help every moment of the day. Without it she would fail and fall. The second has stronger faith and deeper love, and I can trust her to trust Me however things may go and whatever people do.

"The third, whom I seemed not to notice, and even to neglect, has faith and love of the finest quality, and her I am training by quick drastic processes for the highest and holiest service. She knows Me so intimately, and trusts Me so utterly, that she is independent of words or looks or any outward intimation of My approval. She is not dismayed nor discouraged by any circumstance through which I arrange that she shall pass; she trusts Me when sense and reason and every finer instinct of the natural heart would rebel; -- because she knows that I am working in her for eternity, and that what I do, though she knows not the explanation now, she shall understand hereafter.

"I am silent in My love because I love beyond the power of words to express, or of human hearts to understand, and also for your sakes that you may learn to love and trust Me in Spirit-taught, spontaneous response to My love, without the spur of anything outward to call it forth."

:)

Basically, who are we to judge who needs more love than others? Or, who needs a hug more than their fellow? I know that the times when I desperately need a hug, no one knows.

So, lets not look on how people appear to be, but rather, truly invest in their lives in order to be what they need.

In answer to the original question, I'd like to quote a story:

"There is a beautiful story told of how one Christian dreamed that she saw three others at prayers. As they knelt the Master drew near to them.

As He approached the first of the three, He bent over her in tenderness and grace, with a smile full of radiant love and spoke to her in accents of purest, sweetest music. Leaving her, He came to the next but only placed His hand upon her bowed head, and gave her one look of loving approval. The third woman He passed almost abruptly without stopping for a word or glance. The woman in her dream said to herself, "How greatly He must love that first one, to the second He gave His approval, but none of the special demonstrations of love He gave the first; and the third must have grieved Him deeply, for He gave her no word at all and not even a passing look."

"I wonder what she had done, and why He made so much difference between them?" As she tried to account for the action of her Lord, He Himself stood by her and said: "O woman! how wrongly has thou interpreted Me. The first kneeling woman needs all the weight of My tenderness and care to keep her feet in My narrow way. She needs My love, thought and help every moment of the day. Without it she would fail and fall. The second has stronger faith and deeper love, and I can trust her to trust Me however things may go and whatever people do.

"The third, whom I seemed not to notice, and even to neglect, has faith and love of the finest quality, and her I am training by quick drastic processes for the highest and holiest service. She knows Me so intimately, and trusts Me so utterly, that she is independent of words or looks or any outward intimation of My approval. She is not dismayed nor discouraged by any circumstance through which I arrange that she shall pass; she trusts Me when sense and reason and every finer instinct of the natural heart would rebel; -- because she knows that I am working in her for eternity, and that what I do, though she knows not the explanation now, she shall understand hereafter.

"I am silent in My love because I love beyond the power of words to express, or of human hearts to understand, and also for your sakes that you may learn to love and trust Me in Spirit-taught, spontaneous response to My love, without the spur of anything outward to call it forth."

:)

Basically, who are we to judge who needs more love than others?? Or, who needs a hug more than their fellow? I know that the times when I desperately need a hug, no one knows.

So, lets not look on how people appear to be, but rather, truly invest in their lives in order to be what they need.

My God HC you brought me to tears. That is exactly what my heart thought and believed.

I love you and I love you for sharing this... I will just cherish it.

This IS what I believe. I could just she Jesus passing by and doing just as the story reads, that is the Jesus I know and love. See, that is love.

Thank you HC

I actually beleive and maybe I even see God in everyone, even those who do not beleive in God.

I think it's a matter of how much that person allows Him to exsist within him. And then those who fight it...that's when all that inner turmoil begins and the harshness comes out, the anger the resentment.

I beleive that God had or has a presence in everyone - no one is actually Godless - it's just a matter if they accept His prescence.

God created literally everyone. While it is good to try to see God in everyone, not everyone will want to see God in themself and it would be hard to see God in a heartless dictator, for example, who has chosen to be Godless. But those who do choose God, have more of God in their spirit. But there are those who choose to subtract God from their life and thus, become God-less by their own actions. They always have the free will to choose God instead but choose not to accept his presence therefore, God allows them that freedom of choice as per His law. Those who Believe in God are God-filled as opposed to God-less.

Indeed, those who fight it bring out their inner turmoil, as you say, and their harshness indeed surfaces and anger and resentment to the words of another who is trying to bring Christ into their life may manifest. When a person who was created by God does not accept their God, they are literally God-less at that point, until they accept Him, as they are showing God that they do not need Him nor want His Salvation. But it is God's intention that those whom He created be Saved by His only begotten Son Jesus. I pray that those people may reconsider their stance before it is too late as their soul is in great jeopardy.

Scott,

I do understand what you are saying. I don't try and see God in everyone I do see God in everyone. In some form -

The beautiful story that HC shared, is actually how I see God. He would never give up on us. His heart would be so heavy, but he would never give up.

So while we are together here on earth, we can never give up on each other... that is not our place. We need to be like Christ and hug those who hurt us, just a little bit more. I believe that with all my heart.

My God HC you brought me to tears. That is exactly what my heart thought and beleived.

I love you and I love you for sharing this....I will just cherish it.

This IS what I beleive. I could just she Jesus passing by and doing just as the story reads, that is the Jesus I know and love. See, that is love.

Thank you HC

You're welcome, dear Allheart. I'm glad that it touched your heart. Your sweet heart. :)

I firmly believe that Jesus is infinitely more wise and loving than we could ever begin to imagine.

When we "...walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us..." we begin to show His love to those that have need of it... and that is a divine reason to live.

Thanks HC.

Yes their goodness just comes from them. There is a dear churchgoing lady in work, she is just so good, but never speaks of loving God or going to Church, but her words and actions are so good, you can't help but know where they come from.

Sky,

Hi, I just noticed sometimes I called you Scott. That's because we have a ScottGem here and I get confused. Sorry.

I don't want you to be disheartend because I believe very strongly the parable that HC shared. I learned that way my whole life.

But if someone was outwardly attacking God with such venhem, then it's time to pray for them and yes, leave them in God's hands.

So all your time here and effort is appreciated and I will probably read it all again.

Another oldie-but-goodie adage from days gone by...

"Let Go. Let God."

Learning when to let go and let God is truly learning to temper your own religious opinions/beliefs/views with grace.

Scott,

I do understand what you are saying. I don't try and see God in everyone I do see God in everyone. In some form -

The beutiful story that HC shared, is actually how I see God. He would never give up on us. His heart would be so heavy, but he would never give up.

So while we are together here on earth, we can never give up on each other....that is not our place. We need to be like Christ and hug those who hurt us, just a little bit more. I beleive that with all my heart.

Of course we should never give up in redirecting the flock to Jesus. That is our goal as Christians and one reason why I spend as much time as I do in this forum. I do believe that many times anti-Christians do not feel that love that we share with them to try to make them understand the danger of their ways. We hug them often with no response or an ugly one from them. That can, however, only mean that we are doing right in guiding them and those like them. Therefore, we can never give up on our lost brothers and sisters. For if we did not recognize that they are lost and did not try to guide them to safety where they would be Safe and Saved, we would be more than remiss in our duty to God.

"And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the Gospel to every creature." -- MARK 16:15 (KJV)

Of course we should never give up in redirecting the flock to Jesus. That is our goal as Christians and one reason why I spend as much time as I do in this forum. I do believe that many times anti-Christians do not feel that love that we share with them to try to make them understand the danger of their ways. We hug them often with no response or an ugly one from them. That can, however, only mean that we are doing right in guiding them and those like them. Therefore, we can never give up on our lost brothers and sisters. For if we did not recognize that they are lost and did not try to guide them to safety where they would be Safe and Saved, we would be more than remiss in our duty to God.

"And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the Gospel to every creature." -- MARK 16:15 (KJV)


Very beautiful Sky - I think there are times we need each other to help hold each other up :).

Very beautiful Sky - I think there are times we need each other to help hold each other up :).

Agreed, Allheart! For even Jesus will carry those who are too weary to carry themselves. Though many in the world will not love us for the work that we do for God, God sees our efforts and it is ultimately He who holds the Key to our life and our Heavenly rewards!

Agreed, Allheart! For even Jesus will carry those who are too weary to carry themselves. Though many in the world will not love us for the work that we do for God, God sees our efforts and it is ultimately He who holds the Key to our life and our Heavenly rewards!


Very true Sky - and once again thank you for all that you share!

Allheart and HistorianChick--

You two are great. You're like the crew that spreads flame-retardant foam on the runway when a plane has to make a belly landing because it's landing gear is stuck. God's own work, I'm sure. Bless you both.

Coming from you OG and putting me in the same company as HC... :)... my day has been made. I thank you immensely for the kind words. Means mounds and mounds.

I look at it as... I am one step closer to going forward or backwards... and if I hold on dearly to all of you, and you to me, the way I see it we can only go forward :)

Thanks again and I agree, that HC is amazing.

Do you think God intended for us to bicker back and forth….yes he exsist….no he doesn’t. I’m right …your wrong. Would he be proud of “Christians” and how they spread the word, how they share His Love?

How do you think He feels when we do bicker back and forth?

How do you think He would respond to those who do not believe He exsist?

If God came down to earth today (in physical being form)– who would he walk over and hug first

1) Someone who has worked in a homeless shelter, A loving and caring neighbor, parent friend, but either chose or just does not believe that God exsist.

Or

2) A person who professes to love God but has orally condemened # 1 to eternal hell for their non-belief that He exsist.


For those of you who have children.....How does it make you feel when your children fight amongst themselves?


Can't say, it is His decision.

From James : faith without deeds is dead

1 john 4:
11Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

Read the first 3 verses also



I believe a true follower of Christ would NEVER want anyone to go to Hell.

Can't say, it is His decision.

From James : faith without deeds is dead

1 john 4:
11Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

read the first 3 verses also



I believe a true follower of Christ would NEVER want anyone to go to Hell.

All very true Inthebox and thank you for sharing. I also LOVE the answer busg gave earlier:

Bushg
I believe if there is a God and he walked on earth in form of a man that he would not accept or hug one over the other. He may hug one with a lighter heart and the other one with a heavier heart, but I believe his hugs would be the same for all.

And the parable from Historian Chick above which is in line with the verses you cited as well as those from Skygem.

As bushg said... She believes the hugs would be all the same... beautiful. And I also agree that we do not want each other to go to hell and hold on to each other to see that does not happen.

Very true Sky - and once again thank you for all that you share!!
And thank You too, Allheart, for what you share with so many others! I tend to speak more with great feeling in my heart and Scripture at hand to make the point that it should never be forgotten, and you speak heartfelt words of Love also and that is a wonderful thing!

Because I have often said that what I do here and the words I use are spiritual in nature and many times come from God, I have also acknowledged the obvious that each and every person was created by God. This must thus be a time of great healing if we are to touch one another's lives in a very special way. I thus, reach out with that love in my heart and embrace those who have differed with me in this forum, for they too have come here to learn as well as to teach. We grow spiritually by listening to one another and as a consequence of that action we become closer to one another despite the presumed differences and distance. I want for everyone reading this right now to know that I Love You deeply. For each time that we communicate, we grow further spiritually together. That is what this is all about.

And Allheart, your kind heart will be felt by many. You use a different way to reach people and I am sure they can sense your love which radiates with great spiritual vibration. I hope that people can reach across the aisle towards one another and consider that without Love we could not exist for very long. That is why we must all work together in harmony to produce the greatest spiritual vibration that we can that will translate into a loving brotherhood and sisterhood such as has never been seen or witnessed before. To that end, we must work to assure that all live in Peace, Love and Tranquility, very special gifts from our Loving Father, given to us so that we may continue our journey here on Earth and produce more facets of the great diamond called Eternal Love. May each of you radiate a very special color that will brighten hearts, restore faith, make people more secure, and may we all reach towards Heaven with our human hands outstretched to the Source, God, who has made our very life possible and who gives us more Love than we rightfully deserve, in all the different ways each and every day. May yesterday's tears become the seeds for the rainbows of today as well as tomorrow and may each heart sing with joy and happiness that we are living today and experiencing together a life so worth living because we are all part of the great One God who has created us and is the lucidly clear prism of our lives from which the great colors radiate from His essence to our heart as we experience, speak, and learn together. May God Bless all of you. And please don't hold it against me for sending blessings to you, as God, from a heart so full of Love and Compassion would bless you too, His children who do not presently Believe.

And thank You too, Allheart, for what you share with so many others! I tend to speak more with great feeling in my heart and Scripture at hand to make the point that it should never be forgotten, and you speak heartfelt words of Love also and that is a wonderful thing!

Because I have often said that what I do here and the words I use are spiritual in nature and many times come from God, I have also acknowledged the obvious that each and every person was created by God. This must thus be a time of great healing if we are to touch one another's lives in a very special way. I thus, reach out with that love in my heart and embrace those who have differed with me in this forum, for they too have come here to learn as well as to teach. We grow spiritually by listening to one another and as a consequence of that action we become closer to one another despite the presumed differences and distance. I want for everyone reading this right now to know that I Love You deeply. For each time that we communicate, we grow further spiritually together. That is what this is all about.

And Allheart, your kind heart will be felt by many. You use a different way to reach people and I am sure they can sense your love which radiates with great spiritual vibration. I hope that people can reach across the aisle towards one another and consider that without Love we could not exist for very long. That is why we must all work together in harmony to produce the greatest spiritual vibration that we can that will translate into a loving brotherhood and sisterhood such as has never been seen or witnessed before. To that end, we must work to assure that all live in Peace, Love and Tranquility, very special gifts from our Loving Father, given to us so that we may continue our journey here on Earth and produce more facets of the great diamond called Eternal Love. May each of you radiate a very special color that will brighten hearts, restore faith, make people more secure, and may we all reach towards Heaven with our human hands outstretched to the Source, God, who has made our very life possible and who gives us more Love than we rightfully deserve, in all the different ways each and every day. May yesterday's tears become the seeds for the rainbows of today as well as tomorrow and may each heart sing with joy and happiness that we are living today and experiencing together a life so worth living because we are all part of the great One God who has created us and is the lucidly clear prism of our lives from which the great colors radiate from His essence to our heart as we experience, speak, and learn together. May God Bless all of you. And please don't hold it against me for sending blessings to you, as God, from a heart so full of Love and Compassion would bless you too, His children who do not presently Believe.


I love you to Skygem and may your heart always be happy and may you always feel loved. May God continue to watch over you.

Bless you Sky. I thank you for your kind words and hope to live up to them. I feel at present I don't, but I do hope to.

Thanks Sky - and God bless you today and always.

Allheart

(Stick around please... you are needed)

I believe a true follower of Christ would NEVER want anyone to go to Hell.

Absolutely not! That is why we must help guide those who may need a tug to get them to see that we are all part of God's creation and when one goes to such a sorrowful, God-abandoned place, it is indeed a very sad occasion for the rest of us. We do not want that to happen to anyone and that is why God gave all of us a choice to make in order to be able to offer us Salvation when we cross over. May all see the Light in the words offered here and may it shine on every foot that walks the path that leads to the forked road. May your ultimate path, to the right, lead you towards Heaven with all its glory!

OG and AH - wow... you guys are so sweet. Thank you for the kind words. A flame-retardant foam thrower... I've never been called that, but you know what?? I really like it! Thank you, OG.

And AH, I'm just as humbled to be yoked with you - you're simply all heart. And I love you for it!

Sky,

Hi, I just noticed sometimes I called you Scott. That's because we have a ScottGem here and I get confused. Sorry.



No problem, Allheart! I was actually starting to like that name!

No problem, Allheart! I was actually starting to like that name!


LOL - And just where have you been young man :D You are tardy!!

Sending smiles your way :)

Hi Sky -

Hi, Allheart!

Once again you took such great time and I will do likewise to read all your shared.
I'm starting to feel bad with the amount of time and all that you are sharing, I just hope you don't get frustrated with me. I know you say you won't but let me know if you do.

You know I won't, Allheart, because I know that all that we two share also gets read by many others and they obviously very much enjoy reading what we have to say or they would not keep coming back so often for MORE! So, it is worth every ounce of time we put into it!

I will read in greater detail. One thing did stand out, Sky, there is no guarantee that I am going to heaven just becuase I love and accept Jesus as my savior. I say that because in a span of 24 hours, I sin. No matter how small I still sin.

Actually, Allheart, There IS every guarantee! That is the beautiful part of it. Are you surprised?! Once you give your life to Jesus Christ, unless you suddenly become a satanist or something like that (God forbid!), your soul is absolutely GUARANTEED to go to Heaven! That is God's Promise to Us! Isn't it wonderful! You believe that because you sin even after giving your life to Jesus that you would be precluded from going to Heaven. But who, I ask, but Jesus would be without sin in this world. Everyone sins at one point or other but if they are Born Again, you will be going to Heaven! So those who would want to talk you out of Salvation, forget them because God says so! You see, God sent His Only Begotten Son Jesus to die on the cross for us, therefore, taking punishment for us, by His crucifixion we are Saved when we repent of our sins and give our life to Him. It's that simple!

"But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed (Saved)." -- ISAIAH 53:5 (KJV)

Listen to this, Allheart, because this is ALL you have to do to guarantee your Salvation:

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt Believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be Saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto Salvation." -- ROMANS 10:9-10 (KJV)

And further, this is God's Iron-Clad guarantee (and who could know better) that YOU will have Eternal Life in Heaven if you give your life now to and follow His Only Begotten Son Jesus. ---

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." -- ROMANS 8: 38-39 (KJV)

God goes on to say in 1 JOHN 5:13 (KJV):

"These things have I written unto you that Believe in the Name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have Eternal Life, and that ye may Believe on the Name of the Son of God." -- 1 JOHN 5:13 (KJV)

So, there you have it -- Salvation and Eternal Life! Both PROMISES from God Himself when all you have to do is give your life to Jesus and follow Him!

I do thank you and will be sure to read.

Please Do!

I hope you know I was not bragging about knowing God at an early age - because I wasn't.
I can remember sitting on the edge of my bed, and my feet didn't even touch the ground (which was a long time ago as I am a very tall girl) and prayed to God, and asking him to get me through something bad that I knew was going to happen. How good he was and is to me.

How WONDERFUL, Allheart! God Loves You and He Loves Everyone Else too, but is closer to those who accept His Son Jesus!

Anyway - I am grateful for the very early exposure and it made it so easy for me, so I guess I wonder why not for everyone.

I wonder Too! When it is all so Easy to GUARANTEE your Salvation!

I do love my little avaiter there. How cute. I found it when googling. Isn't it precious :)

Thank you again.

Thank YOU, Allheart, for allowing me to share how you can be SAVED through Jesus Christ. It always excites me to know that many others will be reading this and may decide they too want to become SAVED! Blessed Be The Lord Forever!

LOL - And just where have you been young man :D You are tardy!!!!

Sending smiles your way :)

Ha. Ha! Now you have me going too (a rare moment)! I have been working for the Lord, of course, during the day. And yes, I am tardy, sorry, but I know you'll understand!

I am sending smiles your way also!

Glad you are here, Allheart!

Hi again Sky -

Good afternoon, Allheart!

Sky, you know what else I wonder. How do I get rewarded to go to heaven and have not suffered nowhere near as much the little child who starves every day ( I am sure you seen the commericals of the children all over the world). Now it is my beleif, that those children when they pass go right into our Lord's arms. How is it I get to go too? Especially when I know there is suffering and do what amounts to nothing to have it removed and further more, have more clothes then I need, eat more food then I need to survive, so on and so on and so on. I think I would have a bit of atoning to do, don't you think so?

You get rewarded to go to heaven, Allheart, by becoming Born Again as that is the ONLY way one can get to Heaven, through Jesus Christ!

As for suffering, suffering is caused by mankind upon itself. God does not send suffering to anyone, rather, man creates his own suffering based upon his negative ideals, ideas, greed, envy, mistrust, unloving nature and the lack of God in their life. When man thinks boastful and exhibits pride and lives that way, he becomes entangled in that web. God stands by the sidelines watching man's actions (as they have free will to do what they wish - but with consequences!) and while He is a God of great compassion and mercy, He will not allow man's sinful nature to go unpunished, therefore, He will allow suffering to take place so that mankind will learn its lessons and become closer to Him.

The children who starve everyday, God Loves very much. However, one must realize that it is their parents who cause their children to suffer as they do. And if they do not have jobs or food to give them, who do you think is at fault? The parents. When they bring children into the world, they must be prepared to Provide (with a capital "P") for them, not just take pleasure in the act of what transpires before one brings them into the world and then forget about the new little life. And yet, in the poorest of countries women are still getting pregnant with a family they KNOW cannot provide adequately for those children. That is a real tragedy because it is the little ones who end up suffering innocently for the sins of their parents.

Yet in many Catholic countries the Pope actually encourages people to have children and even more of them, can you believe that! It is wonderful to have children but only if you can provide for them adequately by feeding them, clothing them, giving them a good roof over their heads and giving them a good education! If you can't, then take a step back to reasses tbe situation of whether your heart will allow you to Starve your child after it is born and whether you can live with that or not. As for the Pope, it would be great if all those parents from all over the world whom he so encourages to have children, would go to the Vatican and drop off all their starving kids right in front of his Palace doors and have HIM take care of them as he is a man of GREAT means and should have enough compassion to care for them when their parents can't! So, while having children for those who can afford them is great, I cannot agree with the Pope on everyone having children regardless of financial status. And yes, I too have seen the commercials of the starving children that you speak about and it literally breaks my heart every time I see it. It is just so sad and I wish I could embrace each and every one of them and feed them and give them all the necessities in life yet I can't, but the Pope surely could with his immense wealth, but is his heart into it!

And Yes, those poor children go straight into God's arms and His Loving heart when they pass from this world! Of that, there can be no question! For they are too young and disadvantaged and God takes great compassion in the least of those little ones, unequivocally! And yes, you too get to go to Heaven when you give your life to Christ as Scripture tells us. But it would be very difficult for you, as a single person, or even if married, to try to cure the ills of the world as billionaires can do. God understands that, Allheart. He also understands your great loving heart and your desire that you wish you could do more. That is enough for Him as the desire in your heart is as great as the action you could take if you were in a position to afford it. God does not fault you for having enough to eat, wear, etc. for you have personally earned it and He wishes that we would prosper and grow without need. But for those who were "born into poverty" it is an example that they, themselves, make unto themselves and to others when they have children whom they cannot feed, etc. God does not hold you or anyone else responsible for them. He would like for us to certainly help these people as we are able and that is why some even sponsor children, donate their services to organizations that help feed and clothe children, etc. but if destitute people were to be given a blank check every time they have a child, then when would they ever learn the difference! So, God sees your own merits and acts upon that and coupled with becoming Saved, can get you into Heaven! In the meantime, God does hear and answers prayers! So, pray for the less fortunate and that will help them so much in the eyes of God!

Hope I am not carrying this over the top.

Thanks again.

And you are certainly not carrying this "over the top". But you know me well by now, to know that I answer with very lengthy responses that I feel it is I who sometimes goes over the top with my long replies. But that is what God leads me to share with you and others many times! Thank you, for this great discussion and food for thought!

WoW - more wonderful stuff for me to read.

Thanks Sky!

Hi Sky (aka Scott :)

How are you today?

First, if you and everyone who wishes say a prayer of Huge thanksgiving to Our Father. He heard and answered a prayer out of His deel Love for us. To God be the glory!

Next, Sky thank you so much for saying you are glad I am here. That meant a lot to me and was so sweet and kind of you and I feel the same about you.

Sky, I did not know if I accept Jesus as my saviour and with a sincere and contrite heart ask for forgiveness, I would be guaranteed heaven even though I still sin. I did not know that... I kind of like that deal. (just kidding) I do understand what you are saying, I just thought that I had to have a completely clean soul in order to get to heaven. But I guess how could that ever be, unless I was somewhat conscious prior to passing while getting last rights.

As far as the starving children ( I am more so talking about the 3rd would countries ) I could never ever lay the fault at the parents feet. Bless all of those people and Sky, I believe, that you and I are responsible for their starvation. I don't feel that I earned anything, I feel that I have been blessed and then we are to give to others.

Some would say, fine Allheart, then sell your house, give away your clothes and go to those needy children. And in my heart of hearts that's just want I want to do. If something were to happen to my husband, I would seriously consider doing that and would most definitely look into that. Not because I am a good person, but because I love those children and those people, just as I am sure you do, and it scares me to have so much more then they do, and I just don't understand that at all. I just want to take all of them in my arms and hold them.

Now the only thing is, most of the devestation is in hot climates and I really don't like the heat LOL.

My mother-on-laws doctor, once a year, a group of doctor's go to these devastated areas and perform needed operations for these sick and wonderful people. He said you just can not believe the conditions. He said when the women give birth, they don't even scream from the pain and there is no bedrest after for them.

Sky, I think it is our responsibility. When we do meet with God and he asks what have you done for your brothers and sisters less fortunate then you, I don't think the dontations that we give will be the answer God wants from us. We donate, but at a comfortable level for us, wouldn't you say.

I am not trying to make anyone feel bad or guilty, but it does press on my mind and I know there will be those that will say... "Then shut up and put up"... and they would be right.

Hi Sky (aka Scott :)

(Big Smile!) Hi Allheart! You know, the real Scott might be getting a little jealous knowing there is his "twin" here now! Guess, he knows we are doing it all in fun, though. He'd better!

How are you today?

Just fine, Allheart, and how are you? Hope fine!

First, if you and everyone who wishes say a prayer of Huge thanksgiving to Our Father. He heard and answered a prayer out of His deel Love for us. To God be the glory!!

To God Be the Glory!!

Next, Sky thank you so much for saying you are glad I am here. That meant a lot to me and was so sweet and kind of you and I feel the same about you.

And I did mean it! And thank you for your kind comments, they mean a lot to me too! After all, I am part human, so that part of me appreciates such comments! O.K. now you're wondering what the other part is....well, let's....let's break for a commercial right about now and I'll come back and tell you later.

No? Oh, allright then, the other part of me is...Spirit! In fact, we are ALL spirit it is just that we are having a human experience, believe it or not.

Sky, I did not know if I accept Jesus as my saviour and with a sincere and contrite heart ask for forgiveness, I would be guaranteed heaven even though I still sin. I did not know that...I kinda like that deal. (just kidding) I do understand what you are saying, I just thought that I had to have a completely clean soul in order to get to heaven. But I guess how could that ever be, unless I was somewhat concious prior to passing while getting last rights.


But you know now that you will be going to Heaven the moment you give your life to Jesus! That is the most wonderful news anyone could ever receive! Blessed are those who choose to become Saved! And while it is always wonderful to have a completely clean soul to get to Heaven, by virtue of the fact that Jesus died for your sins and mine, we will be going to Heaven as He has already paid the price for us! He knows of our difficulties in trying to remain sinless but asks that we Accept Him in order to get to Heaven. That's All!

For more on this, I hope you can visit the following WONDERFUL website, it is the Don Piper Ministries that explains so very well what you want and need to know! It is not long and it also contains the words to say when you are ready to become Saved! I sincerely hope to hear the Great News from you soon on this!

Don Piper Ministries (http://www.donpiperministries.com/how_to_go_to_heaven.asp)

But you know now that you will be going to Heaven the moment you give your life to Jesus! That is the most wonderful news anyone could ever receive! Blessed are those who choose to become Saved! And while it is always wonderful to have a completely clean soul to get to Heaven, by virtue of the fact that Jesus died for your sins and mine, we will be going to Heaven as He has already paid the price for us! He knows of our difficulties in trying to remain sinless but asks that we Accept Him in order to get to Heaven. That's All!

For more on this, I hope you can visit the following WONDERFUL website, it is the Don Piper Ministries that explains so very well what you want and need to know! It is not long and it also contains the words to say when you are ready to become Saved! I sincerely hope to hear the Great News from you soon on this!

Don Piper Ministries (http://www.donpiperministries.com/how_to_go_to_heaven.asp)


Hi Sky -

I'm so sorry - I didn't answer this. :confused: I thought I did, but I didn't.
How are you? I hope well :)

Before I read, can you share with me who Don is. Do you mind?

Thanks,

Firstly I do believe in god and as for children bickering amongst themselves that's what kids do I did it with my brothers and sisters my kids do it and no doubt you did yourself
I thought that god loves everyone so what does it matter
Maybe your god should come to earth and have feelings and feel humger and pain and what a hard days work feels like that to go out and chill with mates its called life and after life there is nothing

Meant to say do not believe in god

ment to say do not belive in god


Hi Nicki -

You can edit your original post if you like. At the bottom of your post, there should be an edit button.

(just letting you know that in case you wanted to change things you wrote in the future )

:)

Oh thank you should try to read what I typed first then I would not make these mistakes

oh thank you should try to read what i typed first then i would not make these mistakes


That's okay Nicki - I do the same thing... :):)

That's why I know where Mr. Edit is ;)

Just looked at your link to You Tube like I say I am a non beliver although I would never knock anyone else's believes. But never heard that song before and what a nice song it is to

Just looked at your link to You Tube like i say i am a non beliver although i would never knock anyone elses belives. But never heard that song before and what a nice song it is to

Nicki - Like you - I wouldn't knock anyone either (to much to knock about myself :p )
But isn't that song beautful. It makes me feel happy and peaceful.

I'm so glad you enjoyed it :)

There is a lot to knock about me.
But yeah it does make you feel peaceful

There is a lot to knock about me.
But yeah it does make you feel peaceful


I like all kind of music, but the softer ones put me in a better place.

Nicki, maybe we shouldn't be so hard on ourselves, huh? I would bet and I can tell already from the Britney thread, that you have a whole lot going right :).

There's always a lot going on in my life its like a car travelling down the motorway at 100mph and never stopping what with the kids work money just redecorating my whole house including new kitchen and stuff so never stops

Theres always a lot going on in my life its like a car travelling down the motorway at 100mph and never stopping what with the kids work money just redecorating my whole house including new kitchen and stuff so never stops


I hear you Nicki - it can get overwhelming. But they in a way sound like fun "problems"
Kids and getting a new kitchen... man I would love that!

But your right, it seems like we spin 23 hours out of 24.

You can have the kids there free to a good home (joking)
Everything seemss like it never stops so the computer is my only chill time

You can have the kids there free to a good home (joking)
Everything seemss like it never stops so the computer is my only chill time

Ummmm that's okay my friend... pictures will do :) hee hee.

I don't have any children... I know if I did I would be 5 pounds and the poor things would be scared to move because Mommy doesn't want us to get hurt :)

See there is a God :) LOL :)

What do you think is going to hurt you

No a skin knee would worry me LOL, or someone hurting their feelings - that would kill me - of them having any kind of hurt at all.

You should see how I am with my little dog. People always tell me, you know, it's okay to let her paws hit the ground. :).

Worry is a genetic trait. I hate to see their little hearts hurting.

I used to worry all the time.
I love my kids and hate for anything or anyone to hurt them but it is part of life my daughter was bullied a few years back at primary school think you call it elementry and I was not happy but told her to stand up for herself and some people are only jelous she's fine now and has leart that life is not always a bed of roses no matter how hard we try for it to be.
I think you would make a wonderful parent

I used to worry all the time.
I love my kids and hate for anything or anyone to hurt them but it is part of life my daughter was bullied a few years back at primary school think you call it elementry and i was not happy but told her to stand up for herself and some people are only jelous shes fine now and has leart that life is not always a bed of roses no matter how hard we try for it to be.
I think you would make a wonderful parent


Aww Nicki thank you so much. I'm 44 so it's a little late to get started. Buuut I'm hoping that maybe, just maybe Hubby and I could adopt if I can retire early. Maybe someone 8 or 9 or something like that.

Hubby is as bad as me as far as the worrying.

I can't believe your daughter was bullied... but thankfully she came through wonderful.
You sound like a great strong Mom there Nicki and that is just what children need.

Well, I need to do the Sunday Mother-in-law thing. EVERY Sunday :) She's a darling lady,
And strong willed and minded. Does not like Hillary Clinton a little, so I have to spend every Sunday unitl the election is over, that don't worry Mom, she may not be President, please don't get your pressure so high. And then 20 minutes later... same conversation all over, as she's getting forgetful :):). When I said "I do"... I just never knew ;)
Nicki have a great day - enjoy those beautiful children and good luck with the new kitchen. I am sure you are going to love it.

Hope to catch up to you later.

Have a great one!!

OK and you have a great day to with the in laws.
The elections do not really effect us being over the pond so to speak
Have a great day

Hi Sky -

Warm greetings, Allheart!

I'm so sorry - I didn't answer this. :confused: I thought I did, but I didn't.
How are you? I hope well :)

I am well! To God Be the Glory!!

Before I read, can you share with me who Don is. Do you mind?

Thanks,

The best person to answer that for you is Don. You can read the account of what happened to him in the following webpage and his wonderful ministry that ensued, after his brush with death. This is such a truly inspiring story that it has led me to truly see why he writes about Jesus, Heaven and Salvation as he does! Congratulations and Blessings to him and his faith in God!

Don Piper Ministries (http://www.donpiperministries.com/about_don_piper.asp)

On another note, I was surprised to see the conversation that has begun in this thread from page seven forward that is really off-topic to what we have been speaking about. I realize the person you are conversing with says they are a non-Believer but I would prefer that this thread stick only to your original question "What did God intend for us?", and the obvious answer to that is that He intended that we become Saved so as to have an eternal place in Heaven with Him to live in Peace, Light, Tranquility and Love when we pass on and that we come to realize that that is the only way to go if we truly care about our soul when we leave this world and what will happen to it afterwards.

The best person to answer that for you is Don. You can read the account of what happened to him in the following webpage and his wonderful ministry that ensued, after his brush with death. This is such a truly inspiring story that it has led me to truly see why he writes about Jesus, Heaven and Salvation as he does! Congratulations and Blessings to him and his faith in God!

Don Piper Ministries (http://www.donpiperministries.com/about_don_piper.asp)

On another note, I was surprised to see the conversation that has begun in this thread from page seven forward that is really off-topic to what we have been speaking about. I realize the person you are conversing with says they are a non-Believer but I would prefer that this thread stick only to your original question "What did God intend for us?", and the obvious answer to that is that He intended that we become Saved so as to have an eternal place in Heaven with Him to live in Peace, Light, Tranquility and Love when we pass on and that we come to realize that that is the only way to go if we truly care about our soul when we leave this world and what will happen to it afterwards.
So what you are saying then is that she should not be speaking or writing to a non beliver

so what you are saying then is that she should not be speaking or writing to a non beliver

It is simply amazing how you would immediately jump to that conclusion or try to conveniently extrapolate from what I was saying. If you would, go back and re-read what I wrote about that and no where do I mention what you are saying other than to say that in my opinion it is inappropriate to go off-topic and talk about children, etc. since this forum and thus, this thread specifically states: "Religious Discussions: What did God Intend for Us?". The Key is Religious Discussions and it appears that you did not want to engage in this by all of what you have been saying with your replies other than to say that you are a non-Believer. It makes it increasingly difficult to follow a serious thread where one would have to almost read each and every reply to see if it is germane to the subject matter and perhaps offer a reply as I have been doing with Allheart. Allheart, as I can see, enjoys speaking with most everyone and that is certainly her right but it is quite distracting when I am trying to follow a thread and it has gone off-topic into another area. That is the long explanation of it.

Well sorry but yeah I am a non beliver and as for what I can see god intent for us was a life of misery pain and suffering. If this god is so good and loving why does allow children to die or suffer abuse.
From what I know about religion you are promised a happy afterlife correct me if I am wrong.
But what if I am right and when you die that is it the end you have lived a life of pain and suffering for nothing

I am sorry to both Sky and Nicki -

In other threads I have also been flagged down for going off topic. I felt a little more comfortable here, because I thought it was good to share a part of each other, with each, as I think that is also what God would want.

But Nicki to you specifically I do apologize, because no matter the topic, relationships, religious disccusions, they do tend to like for us to stay on topic. So I do apologize, but I still enjoyed it very much.

Sky, again I am sorry - and will read what you provided.

Sorry again everyone :(.

Well sorry

Nicki143, no problem! We are now back on topic.

but yeah i am a non beliver and as for what i can see god intent for us was a life of misery pain and suffering.

I'm afraid that what you are seeing or wanting to see as you are saying that what God intended for us was a life of misery and pain is very incorrect. You see, it is not God who intends these things for us. He wants only the Very Best for us! It is we, the people, who bring and attract these kinds of situations into our lives each and every day. God would always want for us to be happy, joyful and prosperous but we, in and of ourselves, are the ones who do not make it so through our free will choice.

If this god is so good and loving why does allow children to die or suffer abuse.

Again, because people and that includes a child's parents, care-takers, family, relatives, friends, etc. are human and not always thoughtful about their children or another's, sometimes things happen and children die or suffer abuse as you say. But again, stop to think, a God who is All-Loving, as God truly is, would want nothing but the very best for our children since it is He who created them in the first place, and as a Loving Father, He takes care of us and our children in our everyday life. When people, on the other hand, cross the line and become abusive with children, they are exercising their own individual free will, be it as wrong as it is (and there are grave consequences for that abuse). God, because He is a God whose Divine Laws look to correct each and every mistake made by his people, will allow such things to happen so that people can learn from their mistakes and hopefully avoid that kind of action or behaviour in the future. When there is abuse of children, adults, elderly, animals, etc. most always that person is brought to justice. God allows that to take place to teach that person who is the abuser as well as many others who have learned of that case, that it is never right to abuse Anyone and the dire consequences of abusing others!

If God did not allow people to learn from their mistakes, we would be living in a most perfect world and then we could never continue to grow spiritually through life experiences and consequences.

From what i know about religion you are promised a happy afterlife correct me if i am wrong.

That is correct but only if you have given your life to Jesus Christ (God's ONLY Begotten Son) and have become "Born Again" (decided to ask for forgiveness for your sins and to accept Jesus as your Savior) as Holy Scriptures say. When you offer your life to Christ and become a Christian, you are guaranteed Eternal life in Heaven (the Afterlife) since Jesus already paid the price for our sins through His suffering and crucifixion and then His glorious Resurrection.

But what if i am right and when you die that is it the end you have lived a life of pain and suffering for nothing

But that is not right as Scriptures tell us differently.

"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in Heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be hereafter." -- REVELATION 4:1 (KJV)

"Hereafter" speaks to the Afterlife.

Scripture also tells us this about our Heavenly home:

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the Heavens." -- 2 CORINTHIANS 5:1 (KJV)

So, that is God speaking to us about our Heavenly home in the Afterlife.

And so many people (thousands if not millions across the world) have had what is called an NDE (near-death experience) where they have actually died on the operating table, for example, or in a car wreck as Minister Don Piper did, as well as many other cases, and they have been shown Heaven and what it is like for those who truly pass on permanently. These people, who do not know each other from across the world, then have come back after being resuscitated and have told us about their Heavenly experience including standing before God in judgment and a Life Review where we will see all that we have done to others, both the good and the bad, and will actually experience the pain we caused others when we hurt them, as well as the joy and happiness we brought into other's lives when we helped them in some kind way or guided them to Christ. Again, these people have seen Heaven so they know it exists and science has also found ways to prove, empirically speaking, that the Afterlife very much exists and is definitely not a figment of our imagination.

The life of pain and suffering that you speak about is lived by literally everyone on Earth at some point or other and yes, that includes Kings, Queens, Movie Stars, Presidents, Dignitaries, etc. Jesus suffered much on the cross and so will we because we are part of Him through the Holy Trinity and He is our Heavenly Father. There is great virtue to be had when one suffers and that is something the saints realized and why they most always placed themselves in Earthly situations where they would suffer much as they knew that in the long run it would certainly help them spiritually when they pass on to Heaven to live in Eternal Life with Christ and their beloved ones who have passed on before them. Without some degree of suffering, we cannot become closer to God as suffering shows that we are imperfect and thus need to look to God, who is All-Perfect, for guidance, leadership and Eternal Salvation. So, many are glad, even proud to suffer, as was Mother Teresa, for the great Heavenly Cause and that of her own soul and spirit. The bottom line is that we are here in this world (a training ground for higher spiritual life) for such a small amount of time that whatever we suffer here is nothing to be compared with the graces, virtues and Salvation that awaits us in Heaven when we become Saved!

I am sorry to both Sky and Nicki -

In other threads I have also been flagged down for going off topic. I felt a little more comfortable here, because I thought it was good to share a part of each other, with each, as I think that is also what God would want.

But Nicki to you specifically I do apologize, because no matter the topic, relationships, religious disccusions, they do tend to like for us to stay on topic. So I do apologize, but i still enjoyed it very much.

Sky, again I am sorry - and will read what you provided.

Sorry again everyone :(.

Allheart, warm greetings! No problem! It's just that I, for one, like to follow the topic at hand in the entire thread without being distracted in some way so that I can respond if necessary. This is your thread, however, so you guide it in the way you most feel led, o.k.?

Aw, Sky it's not my thread at all. It's all of ours.

We will put it all behind us.

But first group hug :) (... hug... )

Firstly to you Allheart never feel you have to apologize you have nothing to apolgize for.

To be honest religion is all a bit deep for me but you say when you give your life to jesus you are going to get afterlife but I thought got forgave evryone and loved everyone and jesus paid the price for us so surly will all go. If not I will burn in hell forever.

Like I say bit deep for me trying to understand

I must agree though mother teresa was amazing

Firstly to you Allheart never feel you have to apologize you have nothing to apolgize for.

To be honest religion is all a bit deep for me but you say when you give your life to jesus you are gonna get afterlife but i thought got forgave evryone and loved everyone and jesus paid the price for us so surly will all go. If not i will burn in hell forever.

Like i say bit deep for me trying to understand


Hi Niki and thanks :)

God most certainly loves us all and yes, all we have to do is accept God's love in our hearts.

I'm not much of a deep person myself, too many words and I sink down fast. (that's where the name Allheart came from). It's just easier for me to think with my heart but I do get frustrated when I don't or even can't use my head (there she goes... off topic)

For me, I know, that God loves each and everyone of us. We hurt, he hurts. And he wants us to love each other.

Niki, quite honestly, sometimes he just carries me through things.

But I promise you Niki, I respect your beliefs and love you all the same. No one on this earth is better then the other.

p.s. I did need to apologize I felt terrible. But it's all okay now. Thanks for being so wonderful about it.

Yeah I think with my heart to.

But the God subject I think it what it is is people these days need to see things to believe you know if we saw something like a proper miracle or some other sign more would believe.
I believe there is something just do not know what so many religions out there

I've always said, the different roads just lead to God.

Just like there are different languages that say I love you differently, but they all mean the same things.

There are times I actually do see God's love, or feel his love. Does that sound odd?
I've said this earlier, have you ever seen a special needs child smile... doesn't it just take your heart? I honestly see God's love in that child. That child smiles the biggest smile and is happier then most, and I believe it's because God is watching over that beautiful child.

There are times at work, that people tend to get upset, or short fused. We all have those moments, myself included. Or someone just comes off so awful that it jolts you. When I remember, and I don't always, I was taught to pray for that person. Don't retalliate, pray that God's healing hands and light shine on that person and surround them and touch their heart and keep them safe.

Nicki I promise you, honest to peanuts, :) my hand in there air, every time I have ever done that, sincerely prayed for them from my heart, within minutes, hours or even the next day, I am greeted with a smile and a completely different converstation with that person. All that upset... just gone.

I just share that with you, because it actually did happen.

Nicki, I want you to trust me, I would never ever force anything on anyone. That's not my place at all. I am a human and a step away from making a mistake. All I can share with you is what is in my heart or what I may have been taught but as I said before I accept Nicki for Nicki and if you can accept my "dizziness" then you deserve a special prize :)

Yeah i think with my heart to.

But the God subject i think it what it is is people these days need to see things to belive you know if we saw something like a proper miracle or some other sign more would belive.
I belive there is something just do not know what so many religions out there

I know what you are trying to say here. Yet, when people confronted Jesus with the very same question, He answered them this way:

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast Believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have Believed." -- JOHN 20:29 (KJV)

So, those who simply Believe without wanting proof as with scientists, are the ones whom Jesus considers truly blessed because they do not question. They see with their heart without having to have physical evidence.

When people saw Jesus before them while He was incarnate, they too Believed, but when He died, was buried and then Resurrected, He had this to say to them:

"Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." -- JOHN 14:19-21 (KJV)

Scripture goes on to say:

"Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet Believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." 1 PETER 1: 8-9; 25 (KJV)

It is so wonderful to Believe without having to be shown physical evidence. That is what true Faith is based upon. So, this is what The Bible says about those who doubt and want to see miracles, etc. done before they will Believe.

Yeah i think with my heart to.

But the God subject i think it what it is is people these days need to see things to belive you know if we saw something like a proper miracle or some other sign more would belive.
I belive there is something just do not know what so many religions out there

I would just like to say that during the time of the messengers of the Almighty and the times when Prophets were sent,there were miracles seen by the people living then,but only those who wanted to believe believed.A lot of them called the messengers liars and did not believe.

The same would happen in this day and age,those who see the light will see it and those who do not,will someday or maybe, they never will .
Those who do believe see the miracles everyday of their lives,while those who do not see will put those very same miracles to the work of humans,their own hard work, just plain luck,nature,etc

I would just like to say that during the time of the messengers of the Almighty and the times when Prophets were sent,there were miracles seen by the people living then,but only those who wanted to believe believed.A lot of them called the messengers liars and did not believe.

The same would happen in this day and age,those who see the light will see it and those who do not,will someday or maybe, they never will .
Those who do believe see the miracles everyday of their lives,while those who do not see will put those very same miracles to the work of humans,their own hard work, just plain luck,nature,etc


Firm that is very true.

Even if a mircale was seen, some would not believe. I think maybe it's a fear of being hurt, in case it isn't true.

It's similar to someone saying, He is so nice, he's such a big help and someone else having a completely different view of who the guy really is.

But first group hug :) (........hug........)

Thank you, Allheart! A BIG hug to everyone!

Very interesting and complex question for us to ponder FIRM! I guess we all have our own ideas about this so here it goes..
First, I don't think there are any absolutes with God. I don't think my response is a religious one, but rather a personal and spiritual perspective based on my views on what I perceive as God. I think God is the energy that encompasses all of us, the good the bad, the right the wrong and everything in between. This is because we were created with the ability to choose our ideas, beliefs, awareness, understanding, lifestyle and moral standards (or lack thereof.) From my own perspective, God doesn't have an opinion. Just an inifinite love for all of us, whether we believe in it or not, isn't the issue. God didn't make the rules, we did. Throughout history we have been given the tools to understand and what ever makes sense to us we grab on to. This is because we have no definite answers, only what seems to be the correct perspective. Life has been given to us to utilize the gifts we have been given and to love and be loved. What we do with our lives is totally up to us. A creator with the ability to give us life isn't going to judge or decide how we live it. The way we live our life may determine the next one, but I don't think it's a punishment or a reward, its based on enlightenment and where our soul is on the journey of this existence, and what it is ready for in the next.
Second, I think if God were available in physical form, there wouldn't be a choosing of one person or another, God would be available and ready to help anyone, regardless of the circumstances or their beliefs.
Also, God is a name we give for the creation of all that is because that is what we are taught. I believe in the wonder and miracle of life and I do think that everything we have around us is a gift. I choose to believe in that, but if I didn't that doesn't mean my existence is worth any less to God.
Being forgiving, loving and kind are the virtues of all religions so no matter what the circumstances are, this is the universal language of God. It applies to all people, not just those who believe in the greatness and wonder of our creation.
HOW do I feel when my kids bicker? I feel sad. I get frustrated and I try to make them work it out and get along. I don't think God feels sad, I think God loves unconditionally and waits with neverending patience for our recognition of God within ourselves.
I don't know if I make sense, this is just what came to me. Love you FIRMY!! Long time no chat. Thanks for challenging me.. you always do!! Xo

Whoops, I mean Allheart, very good question. Firmy, very interesting perspective. Sorry I am a little out of it today... I love you both and appreciate the stimulating questions and answers from you both!!

Thank you Allheart and shattered...

To be honest religion is all a bit deep for me but you say when you give your life to jesus you are gonna get afterlife but i thought got forgave evryone and loved everyone and jesus paid the price for us so surly will all go. If not i will burn in hell forever.

No, you won't burn in hell forever if you just Accept Jesus! That is the KEY and something you can do for yourself and your Salvation in just a moment! There's nothing hard about it!

Like i say bit deep for me trying to understand

When you give your life to Jesus and Accept Him as your Lord and Savior, you are guaranteed the Kingdom of Heaven! God indeed does Love everyone and Jesus did pay the price for us on the cross and that is a most important part of our Salvation but the part that "seals Salvation" is when you profess Jesus as your Lord and Savior, ask for forgiveness of your sins and Believe that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God who died for us and then Resurrected to bring us life, because the Holy Bible tells us that the only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ. When you do that, since Jesus has paid the price on the cross already, you become Saved. Do you see how truly simple that is now? What a small price to pay for your Eternal Salvation! Frankly, I cannot understand why anyone would even have to 'think' about doing this, without jumping at the chance to become Saved when all it takes is Accepting Jesus. That's it! There should be literally no hesitation about this matter because the anti-Christ is also in this world ready and very able to sway people's minds into thinking that one does not need to give their life to Christ to become Saved. They indeed do. But knowing that it is so simple to become Saved, when one means it and goes to Jesus with contrite heart, is the part that satan does not want for you to know about. He would like to make it seem as if all of that is time-consuming, when in reality, it isn't! He would like to place many thoughts in one's mind as reasons not to do it, so when the time comes, you will not enter Heaven but instead go into a place of pain, suffering and eternal darkness for having rejected Christ.

If the adversary can win people over by his lies, then he would have met his goal. So, it is very important that people become aware of his evil plotting methods to try to win you over instead of you going to your Creator, God. Afterall, lucifer was once a very bright angel of God and he had it all until he, in his envy of God, decided that he wanted to be just like God and that is when God punished and condemned him and all of his follower angels to eternal darkness for disobedience. Ever since then, satan has been after souls right here in this world to take. He will stop at nothing to try to keep people from going to Heaven. Fortunately, we are much smarter than he! We know his tricks and what really gets us Saved! Praise Be God Forever!

You may wish to go to the following website to learn more about this most important undertaking. And as you do, please also remember the thousands of people who have DIED today as they do each and every day throughout the world without becoming Saved. That is truly sad, but they may have thought that they had tomorrow or the next day or the next to become Saved and did not want to take the extra 30 seconds to a minute to say the prayer to become Saved. Unfortunately for them, it was too late when their time came up and they died un-Saved. Don't become one of those statistics! Your life here and hereafter is Precious and worth a whole lot more than to simply surrender it to the adversary. Give it to Jesus instead! You'll be very glad you did when you see His kingdom in Heaven at the time of your passing and the beauty, wonders, Light, mercy, peace, compassion and Eternal Love that is part of what one gets when they are Saved. So, now I hope you understand how to become Saved. Remember, it only takes a moment to go to Jesus with deep sincerity and tell Him that you are sorry for your past sins and from now on you Accept Him as your Lord and Savior who came in the flesh and you Believe He is the Only Begotten Son of God who died for us and then resurrected! May God Bless those who have taken the extra minute to Save their soul and spirit and will be entering Heaven at their appointed time.

Please also visit the following website:

Don Piper Ministries (http://www.donpiperministries.com/how_to_go_to_heaven.asp)

IT scares me a little bit when someone writes verbatum what they are being preached with such reverance. I am curious how you explain your personal relationship with God, other than what is in the bible. What do you believe in your heart SKYGEM, separate from sinning and being SAVED? I guess I am asking because I see God a lot different and I don't think you realize that not everyone views God EXACTLY as you, but I am not confused, nor is the subject too deep for me to ponder or explain my perception. I feel that God is within me and within all of us. The punishment or reward that you think happens when you believe, I don't think has anything to do with God. I think it has to do with people throughout history who believed that is what God wanted us to think. We don't have to be SAVED to be loved by God, we are loved because we exist. Some people need specific rules to follow to feel safe and secure in their relationship with God, others don't. That doesn't mean your perception is the only one, or the correct one for me.
I don't need to visit a ministry website for my faith but maybe that is what you need. All of us have the ability to choose to believe what we want. God would not have given us free will, if we were going to be punished for using it in the end. Through our mistakes and failures is where the real spiritual growth begins. So if we never sinned, how we would we ever learn? I think we were made flawed human beings because we were meant to make mistakes, sin and learn to be better on our own. NOt because we might be punished in the end. That is my view anyway.

IT scares me a little bit when someone writes verbatum what they are being preached with such reverance.

I know the feeling, shatteredsoul, how well I know the feeling! It scares me too, but more than just a little bit when someone writes questioning the word of God and trying to redirect souls who are searching for Jesus to another way of life totally devoid of Him. It is indeed pretty scary!

I am curious how you explain your personal relationship with God, other than what is in the bible. What do you believe in your heart SKYGEM, separate from sinning and being SAVED?

What I Believe, shatteredsoul, are the things I write about passionately, brought about both through Scripture and through God's personal enlightenment in my life. Absent that, I would not at all be the strong Born Again Christian that I am but rather one who would foolishly believe that the sea made me, or an animal, or perhaps the forest or the wind. I also Believe that we are being given a grand opportunity, a true Blessing to help those who are lost and do not realize that Salvation is as important as life itself, because everyone, literally everyone, will be entering another life when this physical life ceases to be and if they are not prepared and have listened only to non-Believers their soul and spirit is in real DANGER and true Christians simply cannot let that happen just to try to appease infidels.The cost of a fellow human being's soul not entering Heaven is simply too high!

I guess I am asking because I see God a lot different and I don't think you realize that not everyone views God EXACTLY as you, but I am not confused, nor is the subject too deep for me to ponder or explain my perception.

While there can be no doubt that you do indeed see God a lot different than I, shatteredsoul, the very fact that many across the world who had a less than sterling view of God at one time, have started listening to those who spoke or wrote about God's word, those who took their time to introduce them to God to tell them who He is and what He can do in their life, caused many to change their viewpoint and they became Christians and even Born Again! That is what makes it all worthwhile, shatteredsoul. If even ONE person who comes to visit here reads what I have to say in these forums and then decides to become Saved, then it would have all been worth the effort! If Scripture does not personally resonate with you, then it should be simply a process of not wanting to visit a RELIGIOUS forum that you do not gravitate towards or that would offend your personal beliefs in some way. But don't try to distract others from hearing the word of God as they may be very hungry for the word even if you personally aren't.

I feel that God is within me and within all of us. The punishment or reward that you think happens when you believe, I don't think has anything to do with God.

It has everything to do with God. God certainly does not reward an infidel with Salvation who chooses to never change their viewpoint, for example. Scripture is most clear about that and I would be most happy to quote Scripture to you on that. He does reward a Born Again Christian who has personally accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior! That is the distinction that simply has to be made each and every time we enter into these kinds of discussions. The word of God is very clear that nobody can enter Heaven (thus, be Saved) without acknowledging Jesus Christ and Accepting Him before they make their transition from this Earthly life. And if you were to ask me about what happens to those of other faiths, I can only say that they may indeed not want to go to Heaven, since there is only ONE true God, that is, why would they want to be in Heaven with Jesus Christ, since they don't believe in Him in the first place. So, why go to be with someone for Eternity that you don't Believe in? For those who do not Believe, that is their own personal choice. But many others do Believe or are "warming up" to Jesus, perhaps on the brink of accepting Him as their Lord and Savior and may very well come to Believe before their time comes up if God is merciful in not calling them to judgment before they have reached the conclusion that they were made by God and need Jesus His only Begotten Son, so they can enter Heaven. Scripture is very exact on this. This is not me making this up, shatteredsoul. But I know that some un-Believers (fortunately, not all of them) may never grasp what we Christians are saying and why we say it. Let me show you the exact Biblical verses so you will know (and incidentally, why so many others have decided, after reading these very Scriptures, that they willfully want to give their life to Christ and Accept Him).

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be Born Again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." -- JOHN 3:3 (KJV). One is "Born Again" in *Spirit*, as the flesh is born only of flesh.

"He that Believeth on Him (Jesus Christ) is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not Believed in the name of the Only Begotten Son of God." -- JOHN 3:18 (KJV)

"Jesus saith unto him, I Am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me." -- JOHN 14:6 (KJV)

Again, shatteredsoul, Many People Are Listening! They understand what the above three Scriptures are saying and what they signify and indicate and how it can affect them Personally not only in this life but especially in the Hereafter or Afterlife. It is those people we are trying to reach.

I think it has to do with people throughout history who believed that is what God wanted us to think. We don't have to be SAVED to be loved by God, we are loved because we exist.

We can indeed all be Loved by God and we are as we are all His creations, and yes, that includes even you, shatteredsoul, like it or not. Therefore, quite plainly, God Loves You also! But we would not be able to be *Saved* unless we accept Jesus, God's ONLY Begotten Son. And it simply cannot be a hard thing to do to Accept Jesus if one truly cares about Saving their soul. We can be Loved by God but not Saved by Him and that is a Very Important Difference! Of course, if one doesn't accept Jesus (due to their free will), then that is something to contend with when one passes on and sees that they are not admitted or permitted into the Holy place reserved only for those who Believed in Jesus and Accepted Him while incarnate on Earth. But again, why in the world would anyone want to go to Heaven who does not first Believe in Jesus? For instance, if you are not a Believer, you would not want to go to spend the rest of your eternal spiritual life in tranquility, Peace and Love with Jesus, now would you! Of course not. Why would you! And those who do not Believe in Him will certainly get their wish by not going to Heaven, according to Scripture, so that should settle the matter most succinctly once and for all. Remember, there is no other way to Heaven but through Jesus.

Some people need specific rules to follow to feel safe and secure in their relationship with God, others don't. That doesn't mean your perception is the only one, or the correct one for me.

Obviously not, shatteredsoul. But remember, you are only one of MANY. Many others are Still Searching!

Jesus explains it this way.

"For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things. For our conversation is in Heaven; from whense also we look for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto himself." -- PHILIPPIANS 3:18-21 (KJV)

If your perception of God is that you don't want to have anything to do with Him and it has been this long a time that you have kept on denying Him, then your own free will will obviously keep you from entering Heaven and that would give you the true freedom you apparently yearn for so much. And more Great News for you personally, It's a Done Deal, with no arm-twisting, if you do not choose to amend your ways! But Scripture strongly warns people about this. It then becomes their own Personal Choice! If you feel and know you are secure without Jesus in your life right now, then you obviously do not need to go to Heaven to be with Jesus after you die that much is certain, as that would certainly be sheer hypocrisy if you still wanted to go and of course, you wouldn't be able to anyway according to Scripture, shatteredsoul. That should be clear enough for your understanding.

I don't need to visit a ministry website for my faith but maybe that is what you need. All of us have the ability to choose to believe what we want.

Except that many still don't know what they want because others have told them it is alright for them to not Believe and they are therefore confused into thinking that they will still enter Heaven and be Saved even if they don't Believe in Jesus. Nothing could be further from the Truth and we have to correct that and make that crystal clear for those people, shatteredsoul, not for people like you that shun Christ and wish all others would also. Many others still very much need the word of God and we are here to provide it to them in these RELIGIOUS forums. Praise Be To God!

God would not have given us free will, if we were going to be punished for using it in the end.

God gives one free will to help them make the RIGHT choice in order to gain Salvation. However, even though He would be very much disappointed in a person rejecting His Only Begotten Son Jesus, He does not absolutely insist that non-Believers be Saved if they choose not to be. But by His grace, mercy and compassion He offers you and others the *chance* to be Saved. If you, however, choose not to be, then the punishment you receive is virtually Your Own, inflicted only by You, and not Him since He first gave you a Fair Chance through your free will to join Him. You will have no one else to blame for that but yourself, shatteredsoul. The simple truth is that you dig your own grave, then you lie in it. But then that would have been due to your own personal choice. And no, you won't be forced to enter Heaven and be with God when you choose not to be. No way that's ever going to happen! That's the beautiful part about God giving us Free Will in this matter. We can literally choose His Light along with All of His Love in Heaven, or complete and total darkness! But you can't have it both ways, Biblically speaking.

Through our mistakes and failures is where the real spiritual growth begins. So if we never sinned, how we would we ever learn? I think we were made flawed human beings because we were meant to make mistakes, sin and learn to be better on our own. NOt because we might be punished in the end. That is my view anyway.

I can see that is your viewpoint, shatteredsoul. Spiritual growth indeed does begin with mistakes and failures but only as a LEARNING PROCESS/MECHANISM/TOOL for continued spiritual growth. But God also explains it in a very different way that includes punishment for not changing from our evil ways of sinning just as Jesus told Mary Magdalene after He had driven the devils from her that she should "Go and Sin No More." He meant that for us too you know. But He sends those of us who are aligned spiritually with Him, those who can truly discern His Word, and He gives us authorization to speak to others about these matters so they can understand what He expects of us when we make our mistakes and commit sins and teaches us how to avoid sin in the future if we truly embrace His word. Here is what we hold dear to our heart when we go out into the world to teach others about Jesus. Fortunately, the Internet makes it very possible for us to go into all the world to preach and teach!

"And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." -- MARK 16:15 (KJV)

"Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart." -- EPHESIANS 6:6 (KJV)

However, if one does not have God's Spirit in his or her heart to begin with, he or she simply cannot discern what we will be telling or teaching them and that is why it is so difficult for them to understand the word of God.

"But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are SPIRITUALLY discerned." -- 1 CORINTHIANS 2:10-14 (KJV)

In doing the work of God by bringing His Word unto others, this is Jesus speaking to His Christian Brethren and others who would later come to Believe in Him.

"Whosoever shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in Heaven." -- MATTHEW 10:32 (KJV)

Shatteredsoul, there can be no greater comfort and joy, indeed a real blessing, than in knowing that He will confess me before His Father in Heaven as I have confessed Him as my Lord and Savior, before you and all others reading these words! Blessed Be God Forever! And shatteredsoul, I want to thank you for asking these questions and making these statements prompting me to reply, since without your posting, I might not have had the wonderful opportunity to continue to speak even more about Jesus Christ, Scriptures and Salvation! We must thus, never end the dialog.

Interesting topic. Worth investigating.



What does Scripture say:

Ephesians 5 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

2 Timothy 4 2 Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine.



For the most part. Not always though.

Apparently that is what Paul thought he was supposed to do:

Acts Of Apostles 17 17 He disputed, therefore, in the synagogue with the Jews, and with them that served God, and in the marketplace, every day with them that were there.

And we are called to imitate Paul:

1 Corinthians 11 1 Be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ.



He is saddened when believers bicker back and forth. We are His children.



Psalms 13 1 Unto the end, a psalm for David. The fool hath said in his heart: There is no God, They are corrupt, and are become abominable in their ways: there is none that doth good, no not one.




To whom did He appear always in Salvation History? Always to the Just.

I can think of no example in Scripture where God appeared to a non believer except to punish them. Compare Moses and Pharoah. He blessed Moses and punished Pharaoh.

Can you think of any examples where God appeared to a non believer?



Again. The Revelation of God is clear. Without faith it is impossible to please God. And that is only logical.

Lets take an example. Say someone loves you and your children but hates your mom and dad. And insults your mom and dad at every opportunity.

Do you expect your mom and dad to love that person as they love you?



Well, St. Paul loves God, doesn't he:

1 Corinthians 16 22 If any man love not our Lord Jesus Christ, let him be anathema, maranatha.

Essentially, St. Paul, in the Word of God has condemned any man who does not love Jesus Christ to hell.



I think that is where you are making your mistake. Although God created all mankind, many men do not recognize God's Divine Fatherhood. God is Just. He does not force men to love Him. But He recognizes those who do and considers them His children.

John 10 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice: and I know them, and they follow me. 28 And I give them life everlasting; and they shall not perish for ever, and no man shall pluck them out of my hand

Colossians 3 6 For which things the wrath of God cometh upon the children of unbelief,

Philippians 2 15 That you may be blameless, and sincere children of God, without reproof, in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation; among whom you shine as lights in the world.

So, although God wants all men to come to salvation. Many men do not want God's salvation.

The reason I debate with these atheists is because they have their own little section in this forum. But they would rather come here and attack our Christian beliefs.

Is it fair that they should attack our faith with impunity?

You can check all you want in the atheist forums. You won't find me there. I came to this forum to answer questions of the faith.

Sincerely,

De Maria

lovely job!! I think when you believe something you believe fully and you do not compromise. God's people are not perfect but we are his.
God said that he sent his son for the lost and I believe he would hug them. But I also know that we must go out and win souls to God as best we can and of course no ones going to like it. Who likes there toes stepped on? He said that sin can not enter his kingdom and the only way to wash those sins is by the blood of Jesus. The bible says that people will stand before him that did great works and if there heart wasn't right he would say ''depart from me you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you'' there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth( I cry just thinking about it)i like to see people who are kind hearted and good. But we have to remember that it takes seeking god consistently or it will do you no good~ the road to hell is paved with good intentions. He also said that you can't serve two masters. People serve the devil everyday and they don't mean to nor do they realize it.

Interesting topic. Worth investigating.



What does Scripture say:

Ephesians 5 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

2 Timothy 4 2 Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine.



For the most part. Not always though.

Apparently that is what Paul thought he was supposed to do:

Acts Of Apostles 17 17 He disputed, therefore, in the synagogue with the Jews, and with them that served God, and in the marketplace, every day with them that were there.

And we are called to imitate Paul:

1 Corinthians 11 1 Be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ.



He is saddened when believers bicker back and forth. We are His children.



Psalms 13 1 Unto the end, a psalm for David. The fool hath said in his heart: There is no God, They are corrupt, and are become abominable in their ways: there is none that doth good, no not one.




To whom did He appear always in Salvation History? Always to the Just.

I can think of no example in Scripture where God appeared to a non believer except to punish them. Compare Moses and Pharoah. He blessed Moses and punished Pharaoh.

Can you think of any examples where God appeared to a non believer?



Again. The Revelation of God is clear. Without faith it is impossible to please God. And that is only logical.

Lets take an example. Say someone loves you and your children but hates your mom and dad. And insults your mom and dad at every opportunity.

Do you expect your mom and dad to love that person as they love you?



Well, St. Paul loves God, doesn't he:

1 Corinthians 16 22 If any man love not our Lord Jesus Christ, let him be anathema, maranatha.

Essentially, St. Paul, in the Word of God has condemned any man who does not love Jesus Christ to hell.



I think that is where you are making your mistake. Although God created all mankind, many men do not recognize God's Divine Fatherhood. God is Just. He does not force men to love Him. But He recognizes those who do and considers them His children.

John 10 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice: and I know them, and they follow me. 28 And I give them life everlasting; and they shall not perish for ever, and no man shall pluck them out of my hand

Colossians 3 6 For which things the wrath of God cometh upon the children of unbelief,

Philippians 2 15 That you may be blameless, and sincere children of God, without reproof, in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation; among whom you shine as lights in the world.

So, although God wants all men to come to salvation. Many men do not want God's salvation.

The reason I debate with these atheists is because they have their own little section in this forum. But they would rather come here and attack our Christian beliefs.

Is it fair that they should attack our faith with impunity?

You can check all you want in the atheist forums. You won't find me there. I came to this forum to answer questions of the faith.

Sincerely,

De Maria

lovely job!! I think when you believe something you believe fully and you do not compromise. God's people are not perfect but we are his.
God said that he sent his son for the lost and I believe he would hug them. But I also know that we must go out and win souls to God as best we can and of course no ones going to like it. Who likes there toes stepped on? He said that sin can not enter his kingdom and the only way to wash those sins is by the blood of Jesus. The bible says that people will stand before him that did great works and if there heart wasn't right he would say ''depart from me you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you'' there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth( I cry just thinking about it)i like to see people who are kind hearted and good. But we have to remember that it takes seeking god consistently or it will do you no good~ the road to hell is paved with good intentions. He also said that you can't serve two masters. People serve the devil everyday and they don't mean to nor do they realize it.

I think God is the energy that encompasses all of us, the good the bad, the right the wrong and everything in between. This is because we were created with the ability to choose our ideas, beliefs, awareness, understanding, lifestyle and moral standards (or lack thereof.) From my own perspective, God doesn't have an opinion. Just an inifinite love for all of us, whether we believe in it or not, isn't the issue. God didn't make the rules, we did. Throughout history we have been given the tools to understand and what ever makes sense to us we grab on to. This is because we have no definite answers, only what seems to be the correct perspective. Life has been given to us to utilize the gifts we have been given and to love and be loved. What we do with our lives is totally up to us. A creator with the ability to give us life isn't going to judge or decide how we live it. The way we live our life may determine the next one, but I don't think its a punishment or a reward, its based on enlightenment and where our soul is on the journey of this existence, and what it is ready for in the next.
Yes! Very well put. I hear you loud and clear, SS, but the radically inclusive God that you and I accept is invisible to those who worship a Book and exalt their own interpretation if it as embodying the very thoughts of God. Regrettably, there is very little to say to a person who thinks that their own interpretation of ink on paper is the Word of God.

So true cowboy, so true. Thanks OG

Yes, it does. It is indeed a blessing to have parents who teach us the Golden Rule and then care enough about us to follow-through and see that we are not led astray and end up on the wayward path without God in our life. Blessed are those who have such parents! May God bless them always and forever. For those who do not, and have never been taught about God, I and others are here to speak to you about God and how you need Him in your life. Once you have Jesus as your Savior, you have it ALL! What greater gift than in knowing that you will go to Heaven when you pass on and will see others and be reunited with them, people whom you loved in this life, but most importantly, that you will see your Creator who loves you and will be there at your special time of transition waiting for you with open arms and a Big Smile on His face as He welcomes you back Home! That is what makes me personally feel so special in having that kind of relationship with Jesus Christ, but the beautiful part about this is that literally anyone can have that too who asks to have Him in their life!

There is no greater gift indeed!!

When you give your life to Jesus and Accept Him as your Lord and Savior, you are guaranteed the Kingdom of Heaven! God indeed does Love everyone and Jesus did pay the price for us on the cross and that is a most important part of our Salvation but the part that "seals Salvation" is when you profess Jesus as your Lord and Savior, ask for forgiveness of your sins and Believe that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God who died for us and then Resurrected to bring us life, because the Holy Bible tells us that the only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ. When you do that, since Jesus has paid the price on the cross already, you become Saved. Do you see how truly simple that is now? What a small price to pay for your Eternal Salvation! Frankly, I cannot understand why anyone would even have to 'think' about doing this, without jumping at the chance to become Saved when all it takes is Accepting Jesus. That's it! There should be literally no hesitation about this matter because the anti-Christ is also in this world ready and very able to sway people's minds into thinking that one does not need to give their life to Christ to become Saved. They indeed do. But knowing that it is so simple to become Saved, when one means it and goes to Jesus with contrite heart, is the part that Satan does not want for you to know about. He would like to make it seem as if all of that is time-consuming, when in reality, it isn't! He would like to place many thoughts in one's mind as reasons not to do it, so when the time comes, you will not enter Heaven but instead go into a place of pain, suffering and eternal darkness for having rejected Christ.

If the adversary can win people over by his lies, then he would have met his goal. So, it is very important that people become aware of his evil plotting methods to try to win you over instead of you going to your Creator, God. Afterall, Lucifer was once a very bright angel of God and he had it all until he, in his envy of God, decided that he wanted to be just like God and that is when God punished and condemned him and all of his follower angels to eternal darkness for disobedience. Ever since then, Satan has been after souls right here in this world to take. He will stop at nothing to try to keep people from going to Heaven. Fortunately, we are much smarter than he! We know his tricks and what really gets us Saved! Praise Be God Forever!

You may wish to go to the following website to learn more about this most important undertaking. And as you do, please also remember the thousands of people who have DIED today as they do each and every day throughout the world without becoming Saved. That is truly sad, but they may have thought that they had tomorrow or the next day or the next to become Saved and did not want to take the extra 30 seconds to a minute to say the prayer to become Saved. Unfortunately for them, it was too late when their time came up and they died unSaved. Don't become one of those statistics! Your life here and hereafter is Precious and worth a whole lot more than to simply surrender it to the adversary. Give it to Jesus instead! You'll be very glad you did when you see His kingdom in Heaven at the time of your passing and the beauty, wonders, Light, mercy, peace, compassion and Eternal Love that is part of what one gets when they are Saved. So, now I hope you understand how to become Saved. Remember, it only takes a moment to go to Jesus with deep sincerity and tell Him that you are sorry for your past sins and from now on you Accept Him as your Lord and Savior who came in the flesh and you Believe He is the Only Begotten Son of God who died for us and then resurrected! May God Bless those who have taken the extra minute to Save their soul and spirit and will be entering Heaven at their appointed time.

Please also visit the following website:

Don Piper Ministries (http://www.donpiperministries.com/how_to_go_to_heaven.asp)

only if carnal eyes could see huh! If we are not suppose to strive each day to be like Christ and if we can enter into heaven full of sin then why did God allow his son to be born on this earth as the ultimate sacrifice so that the blood that he shed may cleanse the sin from our hearts. Why I ask did this happen to the only perfect soul to ever walk the face of this earth. I wish I could help people to see that, yes we are to love (GOD IS LOVE) but he is also a jealous God with wrath and vengeance for the evildoers in this world that have MADE THE CHOSE to live the way that God said do not live. He sent his son not for the holy but for the sinners and he looks on them with love. But the day will come (and what a sad day it will be)when even God will turn them away, he will only knock so many times. But I say to you that your work will not go unnoticed or unrewarded. You are doing just what he said to do. Do not get discouraged, for when a seed is planted it takes time for it to grow.