If you voted for Bush, do you regret it now? If so why? Or why not?
I'm curious as a Canadian, seeing what I have seen from here since 2000, I have always wondered why Americans voted for him, and if the majority regret it now.

Some people might have voted for him for another term to make him responsible for cleaning up the mess he made. Now Amricans may be looking for someone else to clean it up after him since Bush refused to. Just a wild guess.

Filtering your world knowledge strictly through the mainstream media results in a clear bias in the reporting. Most media is controlled and reported from a pretty clear liberal world-view, so ALL Republican leaders get a pretty dim report on any topic at any time.

The world news treated Reagan like he was a maniac, and history is already (less than 20n years) revealing the depth of the success of his 8 years in making the WORLD a safer place to live.

Anyway. Bush was a elected and re-elected because he was the best man at the moment. He made the decisions he made regarding hussein and Iraq with full congressional support. This includes the most vehement aggressors today crying foul, including Obama and Clinton.

No matter, the media won't help you remember that, nor is it really the point I think your question is making. I voted for him twice, and I feel pretty bad for the rap he's getting, but you can BET he doesn't spend any time feeling sorry for himself.

So the media treats him like he invented war? So what? So the liberals who supported the actions in Iraq now speak like it was Bush acting alone and "how dare he"? So what? Good leaders do what is right regardless of the public outcry later.

Look at Abraham Lincoln. He basically set in motion the bloodiest American confrontation ever, between north and south Americans, but was abolishing slavery wrong? Of course not.

Terrorism has changed the face of the world. We all have to live in this mess, and America is currently following a policy of NO LONGER sitting back and letting Americans get killed by terrorist activities without US being involved in the conflict. So now, they're still killing us, but we're IN the fight and taking our own wins against these people.

Good for us. The rest of us here in America (and Canada) can sit back and "discuss" the foreign policy issues on forums like this one, and isn't that grand? While others are on the line fighting to END the power of these fanatics, we backseat critique it.

Sometimes, I think we should all be ashamed of ourselves.

Anyway, this time around, the next President, like it or not, will have to deal with this issue NOT because Bush did everything so wrong and solely, but because terrorism is not the "little" issue we wish it were, it's not going away, and if we're serious about eliminating/reducing it, we have to do it on THEIR turf, or they'll come here... AGAIN.

if the majority regret it now.

Seems that there was some dispute about if the majority actually did vote for him?

I've had the pleasure of seeing at least a few former Bush voters pretty unhappy with the results.

I have not asked them yet how they plan to vote this round.

I've been anti-Bush from the early days... due to the association with Reagonomics... but that's just my own person grudge based on what I saw with the massive cuts to certain programs.

and if the majority regret it now.


It is my belief, that the majority, if not all Americans, make well-informed decisions. We give it great thought, make a decision and we live and learn from the consequences and we never loose hope for a better tomorrow. We continue to remain passionate about what we believe.

***JBeaucaire: Just an outstanding post and I thank you for it *****

I voted for Bush twice, simply because he was the best choice in the race. Vote for Al Gore or John Kerry? Sorry, no could do. Bush has his detractors, yes; you can start with the fascist press, an adjective I prefer to 'liberal' because the American press has no understanding of the historical term, 'liberal'. The fascist press supports the fascist Democrat Party; they are joined at the hip. Other detractors of Bush point to the prescription drug plan, enhanced federal involvement in education, and his immigration debacle. These are my biggest complaints against Bush, his "compassionate conservatism". That was always a joke and, as always, the American people will and must pay the price. After the politics have died down, Bush will get a more favorable rating by historians.

I voted for GWB twice. Not embarrassed nor do I regret it. Funny how time makes memories selective. When Reagan was in people complained constantly - now look - people want a resurrected Reagan. I never did vote for RR - I voted Democrat that time and have regretted that!

No matter who is running and what promises are made - people forget there is a Congress to contend with. You want to complain about the War in Iraq? Why were the funds allocated then? Did your Congressman have the backbone to vote no?

Filtering your world knowledge strictly through the mainstream media results in a clear bias in the reporting. Most media is controlled and reported from a pretty clear liberal world-view, so ALL Republican leaders get a pretty dim report on any topic at any time.Isn't Fox News one of the highest rate shows?

I voted for GWB twice. Not embarassed nor do I regret it. Funny how time makes memories selective. When Reagan was in people complained constantly - now look - people want a resurrected Reagan. I never did vote for RR - I voted Democrat that time and have regretted that!

No matter who is running and what promises are made - people forget there is a Congress to contend with. You want to complain about the War in Iraq? Why were the funds allocated then? Did your Congressman have the backbone to vote no?


Shy this is a great post!

Now here's the thing, I am not going to say whether I like or dislike President Bush. He is my President and I respect the position and how difficult a job it is. It's just a personal thing with me and is not the point of this post.

What I say all that time... my gosh, how could one man be responsible for ALL that is considered to be going wrong or has gone wrong.

It is of the same mindset that I defend the possibility that Obama can be President with not a great deal of experience. Why? Because he can select talented individuals to place around him and they should ALL share in the glory (cross your fingers there will be some as well as any pain). So President Bush yes, of course, shoulders the difficulties, but he is one man - there needs to be some sharing done.

I think this post is leaning towards one sidedness but I will say that I would not, did not and NEVER would vote for BUSH. What has he done for the economy? Not only him, but partly because of him we are in a defecit that has more than doubled in eight years. Say what you want about Clinton, Democrats and "Liberals", but we were in a surplus when he left office. What has he done for the middle class?? NOthing. What has he done for the environment? Turn the clock back on environmental laws 20 years.. YA I know you are thinking, just another tree hugging liberal.. well think what you want. I am absolutely sure that he cut military spending and defense spending A lot!! What has he done for our military? I can tell you what he hasn't done or what he should have done but not enough energy to write at the moment..
Well, I could go on and on about his stupid speeches, his C average grades at Harvard, his lack of achievements in education, health care and social security but instead I will say... I would rather vote for Gore , Kerry, or even my dog before I would EVER vote for a Bush... EVER EVER EVER.. OK I think I made my point.

Voted for him, and looking at who is the most likely people that are going to be in the race, wish he could run again, since he would not be as bad as what it looks like we may get ( from either side)

WOW... Thanks for all of the answers. It does seem that I'm getting responses that are a little one sided though. I'm going to assume some people are maybe reluctant to post in fear of debate and reds. Maybe Fr_Chuck could move this question to a discussion rather than a Q&A? Anyway, I have certainly not been educated in American politics through the mainstream media alone, and in fact I have had the luxury of having close friends who are in political sciences, and other positions of vast political knowledge. I have watched too many documentaries and read too many facts to simply ignore the fact that Americans (& the rest of the world) have been lied to countless times by a government that far too often has an ulterior motive.
It always seems to me that when this topic comes up, Bush voters seem to be the ones who are more swayed by the main stream media. It's the same in Canada, 6:00pm news, local newspapers are almost every voters main information source of their decision making.
I have dealings with an American businessman who I consider to be very intelligent and my friend. He has voted for Bush since the first term, he has no regrets and stands by his decision full heartedly. I've asked him why he voted for Bush and he says it is because he liked his father. When I have asked him about Iraq and WMDs and other proven catastrophic misleads by the GWB government, he tends to use the " No government is perfect " saying. I believe Cheney, Rumsfeld & Bush are war criminals and am surprised that so many Americans disagree.War Crimes indictment against George W. BushTokyo War Crimes indictment against George W. Bush (http://globalresearch.ca/articles/TOK403A.html)
The link I have posted is a little old. The grass is not much greener in Canada, as our leaders have come to kiss American a*s, our media makes fun of Stephen Harper and still we vote for him. To anyone who said "Gore is one of the dumbest politicians out there", I would like to hear why?

Voted for him twice.

First time cause he was running against a wacko.

Second time I almost puked walking out of the booth, but I couldn't vote for kerry and I thought he should have a chance to clean up the iraq mess.

Am I sorry? Well... I'm sorry for some things. I'm sorry he ever stepped foot in iraq. I didn't like the idea when everyone, including dems, thought there were WMD's. Idiot. I'm sorry the dems couldn't prop up a candidate with half a backbone or clue. I'm sorry that the prez I voted for is an arrogant arse with no sense of limits of power, and I'm sorry that neither side seems interested in fixing the problems this country really faces, such as the deficit, looming medical care costs, and our selling our country to foreign interests day after day.

Mostly I'm sorry my wife is out of town. I'm bored and grumpy.

[QUOTE=Greg Quinn]It always seems to me that when this topic comes up, Bush voters seem to be the ones who are more swayed by the main stream media. Its the same in Canada, 6:00pm news, local newspapers are almost every voters main information source of their decision making.
QUOTE]



I didn't vote for President Bush. So, it's not a matter of being swayed.

Whether someone was born with a silver spoon in their mouth, isn't the issue. I don't know how someone who brought the issue of global warming to the forefront of politics and created national interest based on his findings could be the dumbest man to walk on earth. If Bush had done just ONE THING to help the environment, or even acknowledge there was global warming (up until election year) I might have had more faith.. but people who did have faith in him eight years ago realize it has been mostly shattered by lies and deceit. This administration is beyond dumb, it has blood on its hands all the while.. looking at America continuing to make us think, all that's been done is for the good of our people.

Shattered.. I don't think any politician can change or correct the issue of global warming or the weather - it's just another excuse for raising energy taxes and helping the rich get richer.
Politics or no, I usually stay out of it. The world has overall some miserable leaders with motives of their own and so does the media. MONEY is the leader - no matter how you look at it.
But blaming people for global warming is a bit crazy, just like blaming the dinos for their big farts to enhance their own destruction, or a meteor.
What is happening to the world economy and the world weather, continental shifting, polar caps melting - all are different.
Evolution has a lot to do with the latter, and the economic part is due to politicians all over who are owned by money monger companies who want to get richer. One thing they are forgetting though is that they cannot stop a mountain from falling apart, a volcano from erupting and they certainly cannot eat money when there is no more food and too many mouths to feed. That is why they and the media are dictating the real issues to divert the people and placate them with lies.
That is one reason I am glad that I will only have a short time left on this globe, and feel sorry for those family and friends I leave behind.
The truth is that the entire world is changing and we will have to adjust and evolve with it or suffer our own demise.
As far as wars - there has always been blood spilt for religion or for money and as long as there are more than two humans left, it will continue, sorry to say.
Anyone who thinks that evolution has stopped in this century just because we like it the way it is now is not thinking reasonable and this globe will go through it's growing pains no matter which politician is voted for.

The only thing we can hope for are politicians who care for their own people - which is a rare thing in itself.

The only thing we can hope for are politicians who care for their own people - which is a rare thing in itself.

6182


See above - It's worth repeating

I voted for the moron the first time. Now I realize that there is a new world order that is trying to enslave the entire world in their financial illusion that makes us all completely dependent upon the government bankers. We the people are the only true "wealth" of any country. The Bush's and the rest of them have been living off our productiveness all their lives and will continue to do so if we allow it. They steal our labor through inflation and through income taxes. They contribute nothing but phoney laws written on worthless paper. They cannot steal my power and they don't scare me with all this terrorist crap. They created it in the first place. I will not live in fear. I do not need the government to protect me or tell me how to live. I will write in Ron Paul next election and let the chips fall where they may. It has already been decided any way. Our government has been hijacked from the inside and if you think your opinion matters to them then you need to watch the Wizard of Oz one more time. If you think I am a radical crazy, I say fine. I am. You will see the new world order create a one world government in your life time. You will be micro chipped within 10 years. If you don't do exactly as they say, they will just turn your chip off and you will be out of the consumer loop. Good luck with that. Just remember, you were warned.

YouTube - Rockefeller Reveals 9/11 FRAUD to Aaron Russo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nD7dbkkBIA)

Shattered..I don't think any politician can change or correct the issue of global warming or the weather - it's just another excuse for raising energy taxes and helping the rich get richer.
Politics or no, I usually stay out of it. The world has overall some miserable leaders with motives of their own and so does the media. MONEY is the leader - no matter how you look at it.
But blaming people for global warming is a bit crazy, just like blaming the dinos for their big farts to enhance their own destruction, or a meteor.
What is happening to the world economy and the world weather, continental shifting, polar caps melting - all are different.
Evolution has a lot to do with the latter, and the economic part is due to politicians all over who are owned by money monger companies who want to get richer. One thing they are forgetting though is that they cannot stop a mountain from falling apart, a volcano from erupting and they certainly cannot eat money when there is no more food and too many mouths to feed. That is why they and the media are dictating the real issues to divert the people and placate them with lies.
That is one reason I am glad that I will only have a short time left on this globe, and feel sorry for those family and friends I leave behind.
The truth is that the entire world is changing and we will have to adjust and evolve with it or suffer our own demise.
As far as wars - there has alway been blood spilt for religion or for money and as long as there are more than two humans left, it will continue, sorry to say.
Anyone who thinks that evolution has stopped in this century just because we like it the way it is now is not thinking reasonable and this globe will go through it's growing pains no matter which politician is voted for.

The only thing we can hope for are politicians who care for their own people - which is a rare thing in itself.

Chery, Chery, Chery, you just made me tingle all over and gave me one hell of a warm and fuzzy feeling! You truly are wise and wonderful and you are ready to move on to bigger and better things my dear. Your end here is just the beginning of far bigger and better things indeed. Thank you Chery.

Chery, I am always eager to hear your point of you and you are always full of good advice and compassion. With that being said, I respectfully disagree with your point about no politician has the ability to change global warming, on a few different levels. First, I think bringing awareness to any issue creates an opportunity for change, for any subject. Not one single leader can be the master of all change or destruction, but they do have a responsibility to do THEIR PART.. I would never make an assumption that Bush or anyone else alone, could prevent war or stop global warming, pollution or hunger. HOWEVER, the leaders that we elect do have to recognize their accountability in paying attention to these issues and creating world alliances to reinforce the changes or policies to create a different and better future for all. I don't think that has been a priority of this administration, which is why our allies have decreased dramatically in numbers. Third world countries have made drastic changes to using alternative types of energy. IT is possible. Although I do happen to think some of global warming may have to do with evolution, but it isn't the sole reason. We as a nation are the most wasteful country on earth, of fossil fuels and every other source of energy that we use. WE have the ability to send people to outer space, so why can't we change policies and everyday habits to help clean our air and protect our ozone layer? That doesn't seem too far fetched for any leader, or citizen for that matter.

YEs, it does come to down to electing leaders that have our best interests at heart. This is why a Constitution was created, to enforce the people's will. The rights of people in this country have been limited in several ways due to the policies and changes put in place by our current administration and with the APPROVAL of President Bush.

Moreover, war has been going on since the beginning of time and probably will always exist, this doesn't mean that the rules of engagement should be based on lies and half truths. I think every leader is somewhat of an ego maniac and many of them are corrupt and self serving. THis doesn't mean that we shouldn't still hold them up to the standard of honesty and true public service. Just because we haven't cured diseases, whether mental or physical, doesn't mean we stop fighting the fight. One person cannot achieve that goal, but in numbers, more things are possible. This is how grass movements begin.

Al Gore wasn't the best candidate but he was the one at the time that I thought had my interests at heart. I would have voted for someone else if there had been more options to choose from. This isn't a matter of being to the left or to the right, it has to do with believing in what our country stands for and that the rights of the people are being preserved and protected. This is so that there isn't a usurp of powers between the branches of government. I didn't feel that happened during the past eight years and I never trusted his interests.

It starts with each individual, caring and being interested in what is going on. Starting with mothers, who since biblical times have rallied together to fight and defend for what they believe in. They have changed many things along the way in history. Before Women's rights, or rights for minorities, or desegregation, people came together to create change. Maybe we should start putting the power back in the people's hands and stop waiting for the next ego maniac to change the world.
By the way, I am thankful for every moment you are on this earth Chery. You have always been kind and loving and a very dear friend. I appreciate the opportunity to share my thoughts with you and everyone else listening. Peace be with you.. my friend.

I voted for GWB twice. Not embarrassed nor do I regret it. Funny how time makes memories selective. When Reagan was in people complained constantly - now look - people want a resurrected Reagan. I never did vote for RR - I voted Democrat that time and have regretted that!

No matter who is running and what promises are made - people forget there is a Congress to contend with. You want to complain about the War in Iraq? Why were the funds allocated then? Did your Congressman have the backbone to vote no?
----------------------------------------------------------

Ronald Reagan was a terrible President. I think it was Carter before him who put solar panels up on the white house. Regan came in and had them taken off, I believe George Bush SR was vice president at the time. Imagine how things would be if Carters ideals were not dismissed for oil revenue. President ford also took the initiative and made it so cars were to be built more fuel efficient, I believe Carter came to office and continued to enforce that law. Some where in Reagan's years it all went under the carpet. Carter Tried To Stop Bush's Energy Disasters - 28 Years Ago (http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0503-22.htm)

Chery, I am always eager to hear your point of you and you are always full of good advice and compassion. With that being said, I respectfully disagree with your point about no politician has the ability to change global warming, on a few different levels. First, I think bringing awareness to any issue creates an opportunity for change, for any subject. Not one single leader can be the master of all change or destruction, but they do have a responsibility to do THEIR PART.. I would never make an assumption that Bush or anyone else alone, could prevent war or stop global warming, pollution or hunger. HOWEVER, the leaders that we elect do have to recognize their accountability in paying attention to these issues and creating world alliances to reinforce the changes or policies to create a different and better future for all. I don't think that has been a priority of this administration, which is why our allies have decreased dramatically in numbers. Third world countries have made drastic changes to using alternative types of energy. IT is possible. Although I do happen to think some of global warming may have to do with evolution, but it isn't the sole reason. We as a nation are the most wasteful country on earth, of fossil fuels and every other source of energy that we use. WE have the ability to send people to outer space, so why can't we change policies and everyday habits to help clean our air and protect our ozone layer? That doesn't seem too far fetched for any leader, or citizen for that matter.

YEs, it does come to down to electing leaders that have our best interests at heart. This is why a Constitution was created, to enforce the people's will. The rights of people in this country have been limited in several ways due to the policies and changes put in place by our current administration and with the APPROVAL of President Bush.

Moreover, war has been going on since the beginning of time and probably will always exist, this doesn't mean that the rules of engagement should be based on lies and half truths. I think every leader is somewhat of an ego maniac and many of them are corrupt and self serving. THis doesn't mean that we shouldn't still hold them up to the standard of honesty and true public service. Just because we haven't cured diseases, whether mental or physical, doesn't mean we stop fighting the fight. One person cannot achieve that goal, but in numbers, more things are possible. This is how grass movements begin.

Al Gore wasn't the best candidate but he was the one at the time that I thought had my interests at heart. I would have voted for someone else if there had been more options to choose from. This isn't a matter of being to the left or to the right, it has to do with believing in what our country stands for and that the rights of the people are being preserved and protected. This is so that there isn't a usurp of powers between the branches of government. I didn't feel that happened during the past eight years and I never trusted his interests.

It starts with each individual, caring and being interested in what is going on. Starting with mothers, who since biblical times have rallied together to fight and defend for what they believe in. They have changed many things along the way in history. Before Women's rights, or rights for minorities, or desegregation, people came together to create change. Maybe we should start putting the power back in the people's hands and stop waiting for the next ego maniac to change the world.
By the way, I am thankful for every moment you are on this earth Chery. You have always been kind and loving and a very dear friend. I appreciate the opportunity to share my thoughts with you and everyone else listening. Peace be with you.. my friend.
Couldn't rate you again love, but I know what you mean. You still believe in the basic right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness for all. Throughout history people have been lured with this, given a little of that 'lollipop' but then the mongers have always found a reason to justify taking it away again bit by bit - or choosing who 'deserves' these rights. In my opinion, we are all rallied with lillipops during voting time - then the promises deminish until we are needed again - and not the other way around. That sounds greedy to me. IMO, those greedy with power can be currupted at any time and I don't trust any of them - that's why I generally stay out of politcal issues.
I have followed debates and have had my hopes raised a few times at several decades, but something always happens to fall apart in the end.
Yes, my dear friend, people do make a difference and I sincerely hope that they will get the chance to do so before it is too late to repair the damage worldwide.

I, for one, no longer have the strength to fight a losing battle. Maybe the next generation will be wiser and stronger - I sure hope so.

I did not vote for President Bush in 2000 but I was proud to do so in 2004. Don't let public opinion fool you . Harry Truman left office with a lower approval rating than President Bush will . But history now regards his Presidency with high regard.

I see a lot of comparisons between the two as I have stated elsewhere on this site. Like Truman he has had to face a new threat .And like Truman he has set the template on how to deal with the threat in the future. Oh;sure the Bush Doctrine will evolve like the Truman Doctrine did ;but those who follow him will have pretty much follow his blue print.

'“The [Obama] campaign is entirely about Obama and his ability to inspire. Rather than focusing on any specific issue or cause—other than an amorphous desire for change—the message is becoming dangerously self-referential. The Obama campaign all too often is about how wonderful the Obama campaign is.”' tomder55


Interesting quote on your signature, tomder; reminds me of the Ross Perot campaign which begot Clinton (both elections in 1992 & 1996); perhaps this rehash of personality won't be as devastating.

If you like that you'll love this Opinion Journal editorial

Wonder Land - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120295124554366927.html?mod=opinion_main_comment aries)

But I think Victor Davis Hanson (as he so often does ) nailed it when he compares Obama to the fictional candidate that Robert Redford played in the movie "The Candidate" !

'The candidate' - starring Barack Obama (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/14/EDPMV22J5.DTL)

Plenty of people did vote for Bush, apparently. However, many did so simply because they didn't want Gore or Kerry in office. It seems to me we have been getting worse candidates on the ballot for each election, which means we vote 'against' someone rather than 'for' the other. If someone not in the status quo attempts a run to get in the ring, other politicians and the press push him right out so no one knows he's even there, let alone what he stands for. The politicians already in office direct who will be appropriate & lucky voters get to choose between those few.

Purplewings
It appears that you are the most level headed thinker here.

I came to this forum to get answers as to why a black man and a woman are being allowed to vote.

"Allowed" was my big question. Apparently, the media and other politicians do actually control who gets to be president and not actually the voters as we think.


Thank you for the best answer yet

Purplewings
It appears that you are the most level headed thinker here.

I came to this forum to get answers as to why a black man and a woman are being allowed to vote.

"Allowed" was my big question. Apparently, the media and other politicians do actually control who gets to be president and not actually the voters as we think.


Thank you for the best answer yet
And thank you for being so kind.

Purplewings
It's not out of kindess that I speak but from truth.

I had excellent teachers in the 70s who made excellent predictions.

One of my high school teachers Mr. T predicted that someday we were going to have a black president during a time when there are a lot of problems so that those problems can be blamed on him or to get him stuck with the problems something to that affect.

He also made it very clear to us that we don't pick the president like we think.

GLAD I STUCK AROUND HERE LONG ENOUGH TO HEAR YOUR OPINION. THANKS AGAIN.

Black and female presidents. Dana2007 writes: "my high school teachers Mr. T predicted that someday we were going to have a black president". It could be Condaleeza Rice, or someone else. My own thought has been, it will not be a liberal/fascist. Margaret Thatcher was first in GB, and I believe it will take that kind of person to be first in the US. I have never believed Hillary would be elected, and I don't believe Obama will either, but that is just me.

I think Chuck Norris should be your president. Chuck Norrisisms (http://www.historyaddict.com/chucknorrisisms.htm)

Greg
Now you know who you can talk to about your choice--the media and the politicians

Black and female presidents. Dana2007 writes: "my high school teachers Mr. T predicted that someday we were going to have a black president". It could be Condaleeza Rice, or someone else. My own thought has been, it will not be a liberal/fascist. Margaret Thatcher was first in GB, and I believe it will take that kind of person to be first in the US. I have never believed Hillary would be elected, and I don't believe Obama will either, but that is just me.
-----------------------------
It seems it will be one or the other.

When the super delegates make their choices, since they have already held office, it would seem Bill Clinton & pals would make Hillary's chances much greater.

I wonder if she wouldn't also be the easiest to be defeated by McCain. I think McCain might feel more secure anyway.

purplewings]
---------------------------------------
I was wondering what it was/is about Gore that made you not want to vote for him?

Al Sharpton has already threatened a march on the DNC if Hillary wins the nomination ;especially if the rules for Fla. And Michigan delegates are changed .

I for one hope the Democrat nomination comes down to a floor fight at the convention. How much fun would that be?!

The Democrats would be torn apart . I can just hear the pressure on the white guy super delegates now... Do you want to be the white guy who denies the first viable black candidate the nomination ?

Already some prominent Super delegates are saying they would quit the party if their vote was decisive. Both the idea of the super delegate and the proportional assigning of the delegation are ridiculous rules that the Democrats need to seriously reconsider .

I don't know about anyone else but Al Gore's ties to illegal campaign fund raising by the Clintonistas ;soliciting campaign funds from the PRC (China-gate ) and the possible quid pro quo associated with it was enough to raise my antenna about the Goracle.

-----------------------------
I have never believed Hillary would be elected, and I don't believe Obama will either, but that is just me.

-----------------------------
It seems it will be one or the other.I think you meant to say that one or the other will get the Democratic Party's nomination.

I guess it all comes down to the same issues with every candidate. They are all self serving in some way and in one way or another show that they have less than perfect records of honesty in politics. At the end of the day, what matters is the way the country is leaning. Eight years ago we were in a very different place, economically, and otherwise. However, whatever interests that we relate to morally, ethically or financially, usually determines who we vote for. We hope that the candidate that represents our interests will be honest and forthright in defending and supporting our interests. The sad fact is, greed and power does something to people. It affects their thinking and decision making. NO matter who is elected, it is a flawed human being with the power to lead our country.
We should be united in our hopes to elect someone who is honest, has character and truly cares about making America are more safe, prosperous and healthy place to be.
Each person may have made mistakes, or shared in business practices that seemed inappropriate or maybe just doesn't have the experience that you or I may think is needed to lead a country.
I personally didn't think Kerry or Gore were the perfect candidates and I don't know that Clinton or Obama are either. But I can tell you that based on job performance, and the issues surrounding why we invaded Iraq, or the reasons we were given, were questionable and dishonest enough for me to know I couldn't vote for Bush.
I am tired of our country being a bully to other countries. I am frustrated that we impose our religion, beliefs and way of life on other cultures and societies. I don't think this is the way to create unity, it just increases hatred of us. Not that I don't love democracy because I do. I just don't think every other country has to live the way we do, to live in peace. To me, Bush has illustrated the concept of being the big bully in the school yard and I am tired of this being our mantra. Do I believe we should attack terrorism ABSOLUTELY.. but we should attack it where its actually a present danger, not in a country that just happens to occupy tons of oil fields and is vulnerable to an attack.
At this point, I think McCain has just as much of a chance as either Democratic nominee, it just depends on how much support he can rally from all Republicans. Whether the candidate has made mistakes in the past isn't the issue, its how they rectify the problems put in front of them now. EVERY president in office has had some sort of scandal, a realization of some dishonest decision making, whether with fund raising or in appointing people to their administration.
So the real issue is, how do we put the power back in the hands of the people? It isn't just what I believe, that is what this country was founded on.. this is why people sat down and drafted a Constitution.
The way elections are run, held and how fundraising works, are all questionable. These are real issues that must be addressed if we want to ensure having candidates who really represent the people, can also run for office.
In other words, it isn't just about the candidates but also the laws put into affect that are used to their benefit while running for president. How we do Electoral votes, how we run polling stations, redistricting and fund raising all effect this nation and the candidates who are part of this election process.

Yes; however, I do regret some of his undertakings that have added a few trillion dollars to the Federal debt. However, given the same choice again (eg, Bush or Gore), I would still (hesitantly) vote for Bush. What a choice!

Yes; however, I do regret some of his undertakings that have added a few trillion dollars to the Federal debt. However, given the same choice again (eg, Bush or Gore), I would still (hesitantly) vote for Bush.

The elections have become more of a game than anything else now. The Democrats versus the Republicans... being in that battle keeps anyone from having to state any actual issues or plans.

This year has been even better because it's between an African American and a female - more diversion to keep issues at bay.

A lackluster congress decides who will be the candidates - a special delegate force will come at the end of the caucus and determine who wins the place on the ballot.

... and then we can look forward to polling errors - preventing people from voting - voting twice - being unregistered - confused - voting machines and counters not working -

The winner will then be decided by a 2 out of 3 win in Roshambo between the two candidates

Its amazing how in each election there are the same issues or conflicts that arise every time. It is important to remember how we have a voice in all of this. A famous quote still resonates with me over this issue of who represents us as a nation, and our freedoms and rights. "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens chan change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has." I guess the bigger picture in all of this is what is important to me. It isn't really about the candidates themselves, but how they do or do not reflect the voices of the majority of our nation.

What can we do? Well, I think the first step is to recognize that a few people who only complain amongst each other is a futile effort. However, bringing people together to form a mass awareness of paying attention to Election Laws, could be a key component. We have the ability to fight for change. We can attack the ways in which things have been done, we can advocate for amending the rules and laws, surrounding campaigns, voting and fundraising. We can show an absolute stand against that which is unfair, unethical and unlawful, in electing or allowing candidates to run.
BOTTOM LINE, We have to make a stink. This means addressing local lawmakers, State representatives, Rallying candidates to force them to pay attention to the issue during election time. WE can start petitions addressing our concerns with all branches of government involved. We can unite and be a driving force in getting Congress and possibly the Supreme Court to pay attention to certain unconstitutional issues. It does start with a few and once the flame is ignited, it can only bring more awareness, which is the first step to any change necessary to resolve conflict. I myself have learned about so much and how the laws work, or don't. First people have to be interested enough to become aware and want to help change what isn't working. WE cannot give up as a nation and allow a few to control the masses. IT CAN BE DONE, although each step is complicated, I do believe in the POWER OF THE PEOPLE.
Remember, slavery used to be status quo. With a few amazing and dedicated people who came together to bring awareness and insight to the masses, they destroyed that. We can also destroy the monopoly that has been created surrounding elections and who is allowed to be an eligible candidate.
The unknown is always scary, but so is staying with more of the same. (Just my opinion, I am an expert in nothing but opininated about everything) lol

shatteredsoul writes: "Remember, slavery used to be status quo. With a few amazing and dedicated people who came together to bring awareness and insight to the masses, they destroyed that."

Not to chill your enthusiasm but whomever those "few amazing and dedicated people" were brought forth that at least 618,000 Americans died in the Civil War, and some experts say the toll reached 700,000. At any rate, these casualties exceed the nation's loss in all its other wars, from the Revolution through Vietnam. If this example of 'what we can do' had spared the lives, limbs, and property of millions of victims then I would agree about the efforts of "a few amazing and dedicated people".

On a constructive note, let me suggest reading and not watching television news unless you check every story for its bias, especially if the medium claims to be unbiased.

especially if the medium claims to be unbiased.This is especially of that one network that claims to be Fair and Balanced. :)

It is interesting how you so poignantly point out my choosing of words, for how slavery came to be undone. The truth is, that maybe I should have focused on women's rights or desegregation or for victims rights... etc... Slavery itself did indeed cause much bloodshed and took countless lives... but war is war. Blood is blood and that wasn't what I was talking about. I was talking about how change occurs, overtime it begins with grass root movements. A few people who spark the fire and ignite the interest to change what is wrong.. You could have pointed out anything else, but rather than focus on the big picture, than we could begin uniting rather than continue to divide...

Shattered, George, and all...
It is necessary for people to regain power over what they fundamentally believe in again, but that is not going to happen with uniting and just talking or petitioning.
Unfortunately any forthcoming 'revolution' will need more than that. With all the mud-slinging, skeletons, and blackmail through media or behind hidden doors, financial support from the 'unknown' powers that truly rule right now and will continue to do so unless a revolt begins. This revolt will not be peacefully achieved - never, ever... no matter what you wish.

This upcoming election will not be changed overnight unless those that really determine what happens say so. It will take education, innovation and determination for at least 20 years to change. Those determined to have the New World Order are far too powerful and will not be stopped with individual votes or petitions, sorry to say. They want to 'divide' even more - makes it easier to control.

My brother was in Afghanistan and now his reserve unit will be sent elsewhere for 24 months (probably deeper) and I am not the only one with family or friend in the same situation. But I also had friends in the Pentagon and Towers. Don't you think that I wish all this never happened, and wish that we could have the power to ensure peace and freedom of religion worldwide??

Fact is that there are too many influential rich and on the other side too many Fanatics who oppose each other and we are smack dab right in the middle. You can lick them or join them, but this will not be achieved without bloodshed. PERIOD. There are pacifists and then subserviants. Sometimes pacifists have to make a choice to protect their rights too - and not expect someone else to fight your battle and then condemm them for shedding blood for your rights.

There will always be loopholes in laws, interpretations of rights and directives - depending how much money and power is at stake.

If I had the time, I would research how much campaign money was used for every election throughout history and who donated. Not just in the US, but Germany, and above all France. Think about it. Are all those fancy conventions and dinners really needed to hear the voice of a person who wants the 'best' for his or her country??

I would also like to be a fly on the wall in those secret rooms to hear all the pre-election deals that were made. Sorry, but petitions just won't do it this time.

You all know me, I purposely stayed out of political issues and religion threads - and for a selfish reason. I did not want to step on toes or hurt feelings because I felt helping people one-on-one with their immediate problems was a 'safer' territory for me.

Now that I am dying, and have nothing to loose, but care about the safety and security of my daughter and grandson's future, and the world's future - even though powerless to do anything, I just need to ask those of you who still can do something to please take off your blinders and start making definitive plans - long, painfully enduring plans, to get closer to the reality that you want. Get your rights back, your peace back! But I promise you it will not happen with just passivity alone. There will be sacrifices, just as all throughout history and I for one hope you win eventually.

We are all vulnerable right now, no wonder, with all that is happening worldwide, and vulnerability is an easy target for vultures and corruption from all sides, so go forth and listen to your instinctive 'gut feelings'.

I have not changed, I still hate getting involved here, but really felt the urge to voice my feelings and I hope you can forgive me for being the bearer of bad vibes here - I just had to say it!

Nevertheless, I care for you all and hope that you will eventually get your world back the way it should be.
Love,
Chery

EDIT: P.S. Shattered.. slavery never stopped - just shifted to multi-colored poor who just want to have a normal existence. Just think about those that get fired if they complain about basic safety rights at the workplace and a salary that puts food on the table..

Your words are wise and true my friend. Nothing is as easy as it sounds. IT is a difficult road for all of us. In the United States we are very blessed to not have a lot of the misfortune that we could have. Yes our economy is in the gutter, our international relations suck, we have poverty and crime and terrorism. There is so much to focus on that is bad. It is very easy for us to get discouraged, disheartened and just give up. BUT, in this country we still do have freedoms that other countries do not. That in and of itself is a gift we cannot afford to not use. We can't undo what has been done overnight, but I just HAVE to believe we can make small steps in the right direction. IT is like David and Goliath. FIghting so much evil and corruption with a few good guys, I just don't want to give up. I don't want this nation to give up. If I lose that optimism than I begin to feel powerless to the world around me. I can't do that. Maybe I see the world full of opportunity that begins with me, you, with us.. just having this conversation. For all the people reading it. IT doesn't matter whether they agree with me, hate me or think I am an unrealistic, naiive girl. WHAT matters is that we are talking, and that is where it begins.
It means something. It brings an energy to the discussion that is vital to the basic right of free speech!
However, I really agree with you and respect your awareness of the other side of the picture. We cannot turn a blind eye to the madness around us. Living in a world with rose colored glasses isn't the answer either. BUT, through discussion we can begin to unite across the nation, across the borders and even across the world... I care about that.
Maybe that is why I am so passionate about going beyond the regular debate and focusing on bigger more consequential issues. WE can disagree and agree to disagree but we can still have a mutual respect for our insight and the greater awareness we achieve because of it. Just think of the connection we have made here, any little but of positive has a great affect on the world... in fact, it affects eternity.. because you never know where that influence ends.
CHery, every word you write is from your heart, that is why we all love you. I wish I could reach across the miles and hug you for every kind word you have given me... it has brightened some dark days of mine. Please know that I cherish our talks and the perspectives you offer. They enrich me, and others too. Thank you for that and for always being honest and thoughtful at the same time... xoxoxoxo Peace my friend.

It seems to me that as long as taxes stay in place and the economy is good, our citizens don't care that our leaders vote themselves extra benefits and bigger paychecks. They don't care if they have character or are immoral either. Anything is okay as long as our paychecks are stable, but when the economy goes down and people's wallets are thinner, the alarm goes off. It happened with a Republican president and a Democratic congress. Who's to blame? The Democrats point to the Republicans and vice versa. BUT we still continue to choose one party or the other who bring us all the same tax hikes, disregard for our desires, and a lack of privacy - still we vote them in because who else is there?

We have a disregard for the Constitution. They each maneuver it to mean what they want it to mean and then swear they're following the constitution. Is everyone asleep here?

Or is it that we work so many hours that we don't really have time to investigate our leaders? Maybe that's part of the bigger plan for a NWO. Keep us all too busy to notice all these losses and soon it will be too late - if it's not already so.

First of all, I am not legally old enough to vote... I probably would have voted for bush the first time... BUT I would have regretted it, I think the war in Iraq is stupid and I am glad that he cannot run ever again!!

first of all, i am not legally old enough to vote.... I probably would have voted for bush the first time... BUT I would have regretted it, I think the war in Iraq is stupid and I am glad that he cannot run ever again!!!!
Why is this war stupid? Aren't all wars stupid?

Why is this war stupid? Aren't all wars stupid?If they are then why do some people actively seek them?

Wars are just a grown up equivalent to spanking. Sometimes a firm physical enforcement of some rule/law/political tenet is necessary.

We tried to stay out of WWII for so long, even though we had plenty of legitimate reason to join in, we waited until they actually came and attacked us. We know now that the Pearl Harbor incident could've been avoided by our entering the war sooner of our own volition, but hindsight is always perfect.

No one wants war, but if you're not willing to back up your beliefs for freedom from oppressive political systems, then those beliefs are pretty pointless.

Is war stupid?

I don't know, ask the people who fought during the civil war for independence.

Ask God when he helped Moses free his people - there were severe losses on both sides there too.
Ask the Irish, Scottish and others who did not want their families branded as serfs, their wives raped, and the high taxes which forced them to seek a better life after long enduring boat trips to land at Plymouth Rock.
Ask the immigrants that were sent to Australia.
Ask the earlier European people who did not want to be ruled and enslaved by the Roman Empire - that includes the English, French and Turkey and North Africa.. and just plain slavery - in earlier England, France, and America.

I think those reasons added up to not wanting to be controlled, used and abused anymore, so something finally had to be done.
Those mentioned are just a few, I could go on and on with Spain, Russia, China, Korea, Japan, Africa, and almost every state in South America.

How about the Alamo - was that stupid too - I don't think the people that died there thought so - they did not like the idea of a Mexican politician/general ruling America - the background reason was a lot of gold, but people were starving too. - So go figure.

Then ask the millions of educated people murdered in Cambodia because they were thinking too much and trying to pass on a better education.

IMO is that the stupidity lies in the ignorance, apathy and selfishness of certain people. Also uneducated fear and drugging up oneself to numb the fact of reality and not really wanting to do anything about an issue unless it's right in your backyard. - Oh, but there already are wars in your backyard - the drug dealers and gangs - you know those that you see, but turn away hoping that they don't notice you... They exhibit their urge to control, and if you want them out, then you need to take control over your life and the life of those you love and want to protect - and no longer look away.

Remember that everyone knew what was happening in Europe in the concentration camps, but still turned the boats away in England, France, South America and the US - not to mention English help in the middle east by turning boats away. WHO WAS IN CONTROL then?

So, if you think war is stupid, wake up, get educated, find the 'firestarters' so we won't need an alarm in the first place - in other words do something about it before it comes to you.

Yup, wars are basically stupid, just as stupid as ignorance, fear, and apathy. Think about it. I also think greed and wanting to control others with guns, dope, and legal 'medicines' is very,very stupid - but it's all happening.

But, guess what, you still have the 'right' to choose which 'control' you are willing to tolerate for yourself. There are kids in Africa who starve or carry guns (because they are threatened to be killed if they don't) - Hmm, sounds like a GANG of a larger size to me.. but who am I.

OK, I've said enough for now - this depresses the heck out of me - worse than the stupid cancer that is eating me up from the inside. But I can understand the Pharmaceutical Companies - it's cheaper to produce antidpressants for control than invest in cures for HIV, cancer, heart diseases - that would leave too many mouth's to feed and too many thinkers still sticking around to try and do something about a bigger problem.

purplewings]
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I was wondering what it was/is about Gore that made you not want to vote for him?

I didn't believe Gore was strong enough to lead our country. He really seemed to have no issues other than global warming. I was also turned-off by his claim to have started the internet, which may have been a misspeak, but he never explained otherwise.

I thought him to be a whiny person with little substance.

I thought Reagan was fantastic with diplomacy, and that other countries would think twice before challenging the USA. I was pleased when president Bush took a stand against our attackers, rather than sitting back and ignoring as former presidents had done. We need to show strength at all times.