Hi,
I've never written in for any sort of help, but I desperately need it. It's a long story, but I'll do my best to relay my point without making it too lengthy.

When I was 17, I met Tom at a college party. He had a girlfriend of 5 years, but regardless, we hit it off and continued talking for several weeks until he broke up with his girlfriend (Lily) to be with me. We got serious very quickly, and within 6 months I was pregnant. We moved in together immediately, and that's when his controlling behavior got bad. He'd take my car keys with him to work so I couldn't leave the house, unplug phones, and get mad over everything I did that wasn't with him. Needless to say, I was scared, and one day just got up and moved back home with my mom. It sent him into a scary, violent rage, punching the side of our house and breaking many bones in both hands and wrists. Tom didn't hit me, he said he was "too smart" to do something like that.

Months went by, I had our baby girl, and nervously invited him to the hospital (if his mom came with) to meet her. He came to see her a few times, but after an argument on the phone, he hung up and we didn't hear from him for another year. He had hired an attorney for visitation, which I had no problem with. We agreed on that, and he began every other weekend visits with her.

For the next 2 years, he had a serious girlfriend, Penny, who lived with him and was very involved in our daughter's life. We all got along great, I thought we had a perfect arrangement, as far as I could tell, she was loved and well taken care of with them.

At this point, I was 22 years old, he was 23. I had gone out for drinks one night, and knowing he was out as well, called to see if he wanted to meet up at some point. I thought we had a great co-parenting relationship, and why not? But it turned out, I had way too much to drink and spent the end of the night pouring my heart out, telling him I'm in love with him again. Ohh... but I meant it! So things got messy with him and Penny, and again, left his girlfriend to be with me. But things between he and I were great, we had our "little family" that we had both always hoped for. The only problem was his ex... she called constantly, and I was always suspicious about him talking to her, and even seeing her. He talked me out of every suspicion I ever had, telling me I was paranoid and crazy. I thought I was! But when I decided I needed to see a therapist, he refused to let me. He said they just put things in your head that aren't true. This went on for nearly a year, and along with suspicions of him and Penny, Lily was also in his life as a great "friend."

We got married and I figured all my stupid jealousies and gut-feelings would go away. We got pregnant with our 2nd, and I was happier than ever... but I still always suspected he was lying about things. And every time I'd seriously accuse him of lying, he'd threaten to commit suicide, so then of course I'd back down.

Okay... so this is getting long (SORRY!)... but needless to say, I decided to get to the bottom of all my concerns, 3 months after our son was born. What I learned devastated me! Not only had he been cheating on me (with both of them), everything he had ever told me about everything (ex-girlfriends, money, jobs) was a lie. I have NO IDEA how I could be so niave! I consider myself to be a pretty smart person, but gullible, none the less. I cannot believe the one person that I've ever truly loved, trusted with my whole heart, the ONE PERSON I honestly thought would never cheat on me... I feel so stupid.

So, he says the sex stopped when we got married (I believe him), but I know for a fact that inappropriate conversation did not. Oh, and to add to it... a week before our wedding, he signed a piece of paper with Penny, saying he'd pay her $5000, in return, she wouldn't show up at our wedding and tell me he'd been cheating and lying about everything. In addition, he'd asked for naked pictures from both of them, etc...

For the last 6 months (since I discovered Tom's lies) he's shown incredible remorse. He's admitted he has been a pathological liar, and wants help. He says he's always been very insecure (true) and depressed. At first, I was supportive of him, and needing help, but he hasn't gotten it, he says he's just found the "New Tom" on his own, and he is better without counseling. Whatever...

In turn, I have become incredibly depressed. He makes me nervous, angry and sick to my stomach. I grind my teeth 24/7 now, I have headaches all the time, and all I want to do is sleep. I've left twice now, for 2 days at a time, and when I'm away, all my symptoms subside, I'm happy and relaxed again. I know Tom is a manipulative man, he even told me a long while back, if I ever cheated on him, he would seriously murder me, and he would go to jail, and our kids would go to grandma's. He said he'd use an ice pick, and stab me through my eyes, because any woman that would cheat, is not a good role model for his kids, so it'd be better if I were dead. He was all incredibly serious during this conversation, and to this day, the most scared I've ever been in my life. Little did I know, he was the cheater. Ugh!

My problem is that Tom is begging me to give him a chance to redeem himself. I haven't mentioned, he's also a very decent, selfless man. He cleans the house when I'm too depressed to get up, he gives me foot rubs, buys me spa packages, and cooks dinner sometimes. And aside from slightly manipulating our daughter to think "poor dad," he's a good father. He says he would do anything for me, he has just been so afraid of losing me in the past. He at least wants me to try marriage counseling, now that I told him I want to separate.

Should I stay for one more month, and give counseling a shot? I feel like I have fallen completely OUT of love with him. I care about him as a person very much, and will always be a friend to him, and a good co-parent, but I cannot live with him anymore. His touch makes me cringe.

From this message, it may sound obvious that I should leave, but it's not to me. We have 2 great kids, a nice house, and everything is just how it should be, expect for my happiness. Am I being selfish? Because that's how I feel. My mom's advice was to stay, because I don't need the financial instability. I don't care about money though, I was a single mom for 3 years and did just fine without him, even put myself through college. And I was happy then. Am I being ridiculous to think I'd be happiest ALONE??

Please!! Good, bad or otherwise... I need advise, I'm lost in a whirlwind of thoughts.

THANK YOU.

I don't have to tell you that this is a screwed up mess, and my suggestion is a separation, to get the emotional dust settled, and figure out how best to give these kids, love and support of both parents. You both have individual issues to work on, as well as some together counseling to do, so my advice is you take time to figure where to start the healing process, for the best interest of the kids, despite the cluelessness of the young parents. Yes I am trying to be harsh, so you see how important it is for you both, to grow up, and do what your supposed to do, at great sacrifice to personnel matters.

He sounds exactly like my ex husband he will say whatever it takes to get what he wants and continue in his secret life the entire time. My ex cheated on me and always had an excuse.
He always poor mouthed and made people feel sorry for him.
Swore he never cheated on me at the same time he never quit.
He is now two wife's later and still cheating on wives.
You can not change a sneaky coniving manipulative guy and the ones that have charm that you can't resist are the WORST!
He is using serious manipulation on you in more ways than you realize. I counted at least six in what you wrote. He has a lot of nerve telling you that he will kill you if you ever cheat when it is all he knows for himself. The last girl my ex was with before I left him was 15 years old. I was fed up and started hanging out with the neighbor guy (watching him do auto body). He had the nerve to get all the neighbors, his friends and my friends feeling sorry for him because *I was cheating on him*
I often tell people forgive the cheater and give them another chance if I don't think it is in their nature but a mistake. BUT It is in his blood to cheat.
You need to tell him there's the door.
Quit falling for his charm.

Well what part of you never should have even got with him,

Sleeps with any and everything around, if violent and angry

I can't see why you even was with him while he was with all the girls before, but you did not seem to mind then, I guess he figured you would not care now.

Stop, think and take stock.
Is your marriage happy -
Not from what I am reading from the very beginning it was a no go.
You are important to yourself and your children.
Lies, cheating, threats of violence and violence itself has no place in a marriage whether it be from the man or the woman.
Seek help, to give you're the understanding of what you are doing to yourself by staying in this kind of life and to help you get out of it and live your life the way you can have enjoyment. It may not be tomorrow but who knows, only you can make that decision.

He seriously needs to grow up and he seriously needs professional help.

If I were you I would have been long gone down the road... but you say you love him. Dear, when you are seriously injured and put in the hospital will you still love him then? I feel that you somehow blame yourself for his problems. When you first started your post you spoke about how he took the car keys, etc. and can you now see how controlling he really is? He will never change... he will just suppress this rage until it erupts again.

Wife beaters and wife abusers are the same. The one physically abuses you and the other emotionally abuses you. What difference at this point is there if he hits you or emotionally preys on you? None.

Please leave him and go somewhere safe before he actually starts to physically beat on you. His remorse is not true, it is a trick he uses to manipulate you. Think of him like you would an alcoholic stating that they will stop drinking when they have a beer in their hands swilling it down.

You are way too young to have to have such drama in your life. You are a mother to two young children. You can make it. You are a grown up, your husband is not.

You made your bed...

If 'n when you realize enough is enough. Make sure you get to know a guy for more than a year cause nowadays many guys act like somebody they are not and then after 4 to 5 months or more when they figure they have you wrapped around your finger they end up being a totally different guy. At first it is little things that you think aren't that big a deal and you can handle it. You figure you came this far and you will manage but they only get worse. That is why there are so many bf/gf relationships do not seem to last more than a few months any more. They jump into 100% into a relationship and ask questions later.
... After it is too late.

In response to everyone that took time to give me your opinions, thank you.

I know I'm young, but I've never been anything short of a great mom. I love my children more than anything in the world, and that's what makes this decision so difficult... it would make for an easier life on them if I wasn't so worried about making myself happy.

Yes, part of me feels badly, and somewhat responsible... I promised him I wouldn't leave him again! I know that's my fault for being so naïve. And I wanted to make clear that I didn't know he was cheating on me before we got married! I found out about a year after we were married. I NEVER EVER would have married him if I had known everything I know now. But now I feel stuck.

I think that it's possible I already know what I need to do... it's just that I made a commitment, and should do my best to work at it. But my heart isn't in it, I don't have the desire to try anymore.

Also, I'm just curious as to how many other people can relate. It's so tough when you don't know when you're being fooled or not! I used to think I had a good intuition, but he's convinced me that my thoughts aren't valid so many times, that all I can do is question my own questions. What a sickening feeling... I used to be a really strong and independent girl, too. Regardless, he thinks that I may have bi-polar or post-partum depression or something because of how sad/angry I am with my life. It's a possibility, but why can't it just be his fault?

Yes, part of me feels badly, and somewhat responsible... I promised him I wouldn't leave him again! I know that's my fault for being so naive.

I think that it's possible I already know what I need to do... it's just that I made a commitment, and should do my best to work at it. But my heart isn't in it, I don't have the desire to try anymore.
Also, I'm just curious as to how many other people can relate. It's so tough when you don't know when you're being fooled or not! I used to think I had a good intuition, but he's convinced me that my thoughts aren't valid so many times, that all I can do is question my own questions. What a sickening feeling... I used to be a really strong and independent girl, too. Regardless, he thinks that I may have bi-polar or post-partum depression or something because of how sad/angry I am with my life. It's a possibility, but why can't it just be his fault?

That is exactly what I mean about you being co-dependent. You are talking about your responsibility to make it work.
You promised him you wouldn't leave him again... what promise(s) to you has he kept along commitment lines??

He is trying to manipulate you in every way he can. I KNOW the games and if you want I will point them out one by one just by what you have said so far.
He wants you to feel like YOU are the one with the problem and the one that isn't doing enough only to justify his actions.
He is manipulating you into believing you are bi-polar so the result will be making you feel like you have to depend on his judgments cause you can't think for yourself.

He refuses to 'let you see a therapist' because he knows the therapist will tell you he is the one in the wrong and he is afraid that they will get you to wake up to what he is doing to manipulate you. He doesn't want you to get help... that would mean he would lose control.

You are trapped and you are miserable because you are trapped. Until you get away from his control you won't get over the stress he is putting you through.

Your situation while you may feel like you are doing the best thing for your kids could actually be the worst. If they sense you are not yourself and they see he is controlling
They will grow up thinking it is normal for the girl to be co-dependent to an unhealthy relationship. You are sending a message to them that it is acceptable for a guy to treat
A woman like this.

While he insists he had this miraculous change most likely he is simply learning how to cover his tracks better and being more sneaky.

Everything you say is so right on! And I know that when I can get myself to sit down, talk with someone and think clearly about it. So why does it change when he comes around? He's just that good at the game, huh?

Also, I am really close with my family, and after talking with everyone on separate occasions, when things get bad, etc... my brother is the only one that will come out and support my idea to leave him. My sisters won't say anything to me about it, and my mom is outright unsupportive, she's on his side (he tries to get my family members to feel badly for him when problems arise).

How do I handle not being supported in my decision, if I do decide to leave?

You really need to get some self esteem here. You even said your heart was not in staying. Why are you staying then, to be nice? To be nice? That is the worse reason if that in fact is your reason. The excuse that you promised him is very much along the lines of "nice", isn't it?

If you love your children, then please leave him and move on with your life as this situation is like beating a dead horse. The horse isn't going anywhere, and this marriage is not going anywhere fast.

I was a beaten and abused wife. I was hospitalized with a broken pelvis. I had a .357 magnum put in my face and had the trigger pulled. I could go on and on and on. Yes, I have been there and done that. I could tell you some wonderful stories of how I was physically beaten but they would probably go in one ear and out the next.

You are the only one who controls you. It took me awhile to learn this lesson, but once I did learn it I have never forgotten it.

Your parents are being controlled and manipulated by him. By the way he acts he has all the classic signs of a bipolar. I have lived with bipolars and they are very devious and cunning. Right now you get away from him and worry about everyone else later.

Mom and dad and siblings will eventually see what he really is and hopefully come around soon to rally around you. Just remember you can always pick your friends but you can't pick your family.

I doesn't seem to upset you that you have been manipulated? Sure sometimes we allow ourselves to be fooled, but all you seem to get from it is money and false hopes of some kind?. and do you want your children to learn from this guy as far as how to manipulate and control others?

For your children's sake you should leave. It is not a healthy environment for them to grow up in. You and your children should be your first priority!

Hi everyone. I am just going to go for the gusto here. I am sure I am going to catch sh*t from every angle and I will probably just help support the picture all of you have already painted of me on here.

If you haven't guessed it yet, I am the "Tom" in housewife's story. Yes, I am nosey and paranoid of my wife's internet activities, especially now with our marriage on the verge of ending. Honestly though, I am not even writing this to better my situation.

I know what I did to my wife. I know the mistakes that I made. I know the lies I told to cover them up. I know how I tried to control her every thought to make sure she didn't catch on to what I had done. I know that I truly have taken away her identity, and I couldn't be more disappointed or ashamed.

It has taken me months of solitude and soul searching to be strong enough and real enough to come to grips with all of the things I have done. I mean really, some of the mistakes are easy to admit to because so many people make them and they are very apparent. Cheating, lying, etc. Other mistakes though, they are tough. It has taken me a lot of thought and time to even realize all the things I have done and all the damage I have caused. To the woman I love no less.

The reason I am on here tonight is to tell all of you to breathe. Put down your swords. People can change. Not overnight. And no, they will never be perfect. Neither will any of you. I will be the first to admit that there are VERY FEW reasons to give a person like me a second chance. I can honestly say that I care enough about my wife and my children that if I had any doubts that I was a changed man I would move out and get the help I needed.

I value all of your opinions and I really enjoy the fact that there are places like this on the internet for people to go and share. Lord knows I have used these forums plenty of times (and no, not all for porn and dirty chat ;-)) . What I do fear about these places though is that there is often advice thrown about without a true grasp of the situation and without everyone taking into account the ramifications of what they advise.

When people come to these boards for advice, they are in tough spots. The often have no idea what to think or where to turn once they have gone to everyone they know to no avail. They all take what you say to heart. And let’s be real honest, I doubt any of you are qualified to give such advice. What would any one of you think if one of your family members was in a tough spot and they took the advice of some 67 year old third strike felon quacked out on valium living eight states away who just happened to have nothing good to say about the subject? Don’t get me wrong, I doubt any of you are that picture I just painted.

I just know that a lot of you on these boards have been hurt. A lot of you have been in situations that I can’t even imagine. I have all the sympathy in the world for you. I honestly cry during most Dr. Phil or Oprah shows. There are sick people in this world. I was and still am “sick” to a certain extent. Being hurt by one person or several people doesn’t make the whole world evil. Just because certain people are messed up and don’t want to change doesn’t mean that everyone who is messed up can’t change. The best example I can paint for everyone is to compare my “sickness” to someone with a substance addiction. Once an addict, always an addict. On the flip side however, there are people who are strong enough and have enough support and enough to fight for that make a conscious life decision to change for the better. These people struggle everyday with the decision to do what is right vs. what their body or subconscious is telling them to do. It is a decision they are constantly faced with. With time, that decision is faced less and less and being “sober” becomes easier and easier. Yes, I was a cheater. Yes, I was a liar. Yes, I was a manipulator. Those are all things that somehow got programmed into me, why or how I will probably never fully understand. I have changed though. My ability to sit here and talk openly about it is a testament to that.

I just want everyone to think before they respond willy nilly to anyone on these boards. These people are reaching out for help. Many of them have families and lives that hang in the balance. So, if you want to give advice, that is fine, just ask questions and get all the information before you do that. As the saying goes, “don’t assume, because it makes an out of u and me”. Or, better yet, instead of telling people to pack their bags and run for the hills (unless their live are really in danger because of abuse), tell them to get professional help. Tell them to find someone who is QUALIFIED to help them through what it is that they are enduring. That would be the RESPONSIBLE thing to tell people experiencing turmoil in their lives. You are giving opinions base on INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCE and not step by step tried and true directions on pouring a concrete slab or baking brownies. It ain't that cut and dry folks.

I am not any better than any of you. I am just a high school grad that works for a living trying to support his family the best he can. I love my family, I value my friends, and I embrace CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. It just hurts me to see the pessimism. It is no wonder the divorce rate is ridiculous in our country. I would hate to be questioning my commitment to my wife and happen across these boards.

To those of you who have been hurt, physically and mentally, I am truly sorry that you had to experience what you did. Ask yourself if you should really be giving advice to people though. At least if you should be giving it to people who aren’t in THE SAME IDENTICAL SITUATION YOU WERE IN. Ask yourself if you can truly be objective and give WISE advice to someone who is unsure of themselves and their situation.

I am not mad at anyone. I am not going to refute anything my wife has posted about my history. She remembers it all better than I ever will. I am just hear to say that people can change. And people give and receive second chances everyday. And people make the most of a lot of those second chances everyday. For everyone of you saying that there is no way this can work, there is someone else living a life far happier than yours who forgave someone like me and that person who was forgiven made the most of it. Does it happen every time, no. But you tell me what part of life is certain.

Here are the facts about me. Feel free to continue to give advice and enjoy the beautiful right of free speech that we all enjoy every day.

I was all of the things my wife said. I have changed. I love my children and my wife more than life itself and would do anything for their happiness (including leaving their lives if that is what I thought best, and trust me there have been times). I have checked myself into the ER and inpatient treatment for depression and suicidal thoughts. I have gone to outpatient “partial hospitalization” for treatment of my depression and anxiety (I wish I would’ve been in the mind I am now when I was going through all of this). I was in that state because of the extreme shame and remorse I felt for what I had done to my wife and my immediate family. I have never been physically violent towards my wife or children, nor will I ever be. I have never put down my wife. I tell her everyday how beautiful she is. I tell her often how proud of her I am. I tell her incessantly that she is a wonderful mother and the only woman I could’ve ever trusted to raise our children. I am compassionate to her feelings and her depression and any physical symptoms that have arisen out of my actions. I realize that I am responsible for how she feels right now. I realize that I may have ruined something I cannot fix. I will respect her now and always, whether she decides she can be with me or not. I will always support her and my children whether as her husband and partner, or as a single dad and a life long friend and co-parent. I know that she is hurt. I know she is confused. I know that she is tired. And I know she might not have a whole lot of fight left in her. I do love her though. And as soon as the day comes when I can look honestly at the situation and say her and those kids are better off if we are divorced, I will get the papers drawn up.

I am asking someone who knew me as me. Someone who loved the real me. Someone who knows the good in me. Someone who literally knows more about me than I probably know about myself (I have a really bad memory from telling so many lies for so long). I am asking that person, not to love me again, not to run back into my arms, not to put her heart on a silver platter, but to open her heart, take a breath, have faith in someone you wanted to spend eternity with, and let him prove to you that he is a changed man. He may not win back your love, but all he really wants is to try, and in the process maybe earn back your respect. I have made enough mistakes in my young life already. The last thing I want to do is not try my hardest now and leave it all on the field and make another mistake.

Anger takes more energy than forgiveness and compassion. The weight that lifts is like no other. Take it from someone who carried that weight for far far far to long.

Ok everyone…have at me 

I doesn't seem to upset you that you have been manipulated? Sure sometimes we allow ourselves to be fooled, but all you seem to get from it is money and false hopes of some kind???....and do you want your children to learn from this guy as far as how to manipulate and control others?

You'll probably hear plenty about your invasion of her privacy and efforts to manipilate people on here, so I don't have much to say on that.

Yes there are two sides to every issue. In looking back on my post, reassessing my comments, I asked if she was getting more out of the relationship than the things she mentioned, and I also asked if she wanted the kids to learn the things she felt you had done... I did not get an answer.

I still think those are valid questions. I would have asked the same from you.

You make some excellent points about one sided agendas. I think people are on here to be supportive, and hopefully there will be enough variety of opinions and questions to help the Poster determine what is best for their own lives given all of the unknowns that only the poster deals with daily.

Yes, there is a lot of bad from this type of "pseudo-counseling" on line. It does not give any facial cues or insigts into personal situations that would come from face to face sessions. I hope you will see it as an effort by your wife to sort through her issues, with people trying to offer their support in the best way they know how. It is similar to what would take place at a hair salon or some other place where people chat about their lives. There is a lot of good advice and bad...

You may have changed but she needs time to see that. You need to be more honest with her than ever. Even if it means her checking up on your every move just so she can get some peace for herself. Have you told these other women N0 Contacting you and thrown their #'s away?
It doesn't seem like she is angry with you but hurt. You need to let her find herself and get over her anguish. You can't begin to realize how much she must have been through panic attacks, worry, fear, feeling like she is so down that there is no up, feeling like you hope tomorrow never comes. I can't even imagine how you can go about this to make it up to her. It is worse than feeling like having your life in limbo for years and no way out.

You may have your side of the story but can you begin to feel the pain she has been through??

Glad to hear the other side of the story, we seldom get that. Your wife is tired of the nice words, but no action. You both have made mistakes, that's a given, but I have to tell you she needs help you can't give her, as you have your own issues to deal with, so you both need guidance and help, and yes only a professional can do that. So if we are to believe your words, then you'll both be getting help, right? You may not stay together, but at least you both can get healthy enough to raise those kids. Don't be so hard on those of us just trying to help, nor on your wife for seeking it, because the healing has to start somewhere, and in her situation I think reaching out was a good thing, and don't be mad if some of us pointed out that losing you in her life was a viable choice for her to start getting her act together, because it is, given your past actions, so we have read your words, but your family needs some really positive actions, with or without you. We are just people trying to help. So if your right there, and can do something positive, I urge you do so, otherwise, let them go, and we will try are best to support her getting healthy.

First, just to fix one thing that my wife did say that is incorrect. I only cheated on her with one girl. The other I suppose could be construed as "emotional cheating" but none the less. I have cut off all contact with these girls. One (the one who I did not "cheat" with) will call me at work periodically, which I cannot change the number and in certain circumstances not avoid answering. She really has no ill intentions, but I realize that giving her up as a friend (we dated through HS and went through a lot together, but honestly, honestly, has always been more of a friendship than a physical relationship) is what I need to do and I have done that. I open my phone, my texting, my email, my phone records, all to my wife. She has the password to all of my emails and MySpace and Facebook, all that fun stuff. I really have nothing to hide. When, Lisa, the one who has called twice in the last few months, calls I try to tell my wife the first opportunity I have. So, yes I realize what I need to do and really have done my best to do that.

As far as knowing her pain, I don't. I know we all have experienced ridiculous pain under circumstances that will never be replicated. No two situation are truly the same. I will not ever pretend to know what she feels. I wish more than anything I could take it away. Honestly, probably the most frustrating thing I have and will ever go through is seeing the one that you love so hurt and in so much pain because of something you did and not being able to fix it. I want to give her all the time she needs. And I will. I just want it to be together, working things out. Not apart, at least not until we KNOW we can't fix it TOGETHER.


To answer the previous question. I cannot speak for her, but I feel like the only thing she is truly "not getting" from the relationship, as far as what she has told me, is that "the love isn't the same" anymore. I am in no way trying to toot my own horn or anything like that, but outside of my absolutely horrendous mistakes to begin the marriage I feel like I am a nearly ideal husband? As ideal as one can get at least?

As far as the kids are concerned... is that a serious question? You are seriously asking if you want our kids to know and learn from what has happened and what I have done? I hope I am reading that question wrong. If you are going to sit there and seriously tell me that your kids know everything that you have ever done wrong... you are a ty parent. Kids don't need to know everything bad we have done. It is our job as parents to make mistakes learn from them and then make sure that our kids don't make the same ones. Would you advise someone in a marriage to consider leaving because they don't want to tell there kids that they got VD from a one night stand in Mexico back in '82? COme on... tell me I am misreading that question? You think that we should make decisions about a marriage based on whether we want to tell our kids about the mistakes? Help me understand what you are getting at here man?

Sorry, if I come off blunt at any time folks. Sometimes I lack tact and can sound mean, but it is just the way I communicate.

I just want a chance. I want her to heal if she can. I want me to show her I have changed. And if it is gone it is gone. Really I just want to convince her to give the whole healing process some TIME. I just don't want her to run from this... I want to know and feel that she honestly just can't make it work, not that she thinks it will be easier just to give up.

What we mean by the kids is they pick up on things more than we realize. They see dad gone and mom disfunctional over it and crying her heart out. They preceive things that we are not even aware they notice without you having to say a word. Then they construe the events in their own little minds.

Often kids see an alcoholic dad beat mom and they swear they will never do the same only to grow up and be the exact way their dad was because it is learned behavior. Nobody told them, nobody even realized what they were thinking or anything. They are just innocent by standers absorbing their environment.

Glad to hear the other side of the story, we seldom get that. Your wife is tired of the nice words, but no action. You both have made mistakes, that's a given, but I have to tell you she needs help you can't give her, as you have your own issues to deal with, so you both need guidance and help, and yes only a professional can do that. So if we are to believe your words, then you'll both be getting help, right? You may not stay together, but at least you both can get healthy enough to raise those kids. Don't be so hard on those of us just trying to help, nor on your wife for seeking it, because the healing has to start somewhere, and in her situation I think reaching out was a good thing, and don't be mad if some of us pointed out that losing you in her life was a viable choice for her to start getting her act together, because it is, given your past actions, so we have read your words, but your family needs some really positive actions, with or without you. We are just people trying to help. So if your right there, and can do something positive, I urge you do so, otherwise, let them go, and we will try are best to support her getting healthy.

See, I don't think most of you are getting this though. Sorry to seem frustrated. There has been a ridiculous amount of action on my part. Honestly, if I am guilty of anything during this healing time it is not giving her enough space. The reason for that is I obvioulsy am scared less of losing her and my kids. We talked tonight, a good talk I think. About structuring our lives to give her the space she needs, the kids the time they need, and me the time and space I need (during our marriage and her pregnancy I have willingly, but unhealthily almost completely given up my social life outside the one we share... no guy time or whatever you want to call it). Trust me, we both absolutely have our children in mind 100% of the time we are working on this. I am not trying to be hard on anyone either. I really respect this type of thing. I want her to reach out too. It is just hard knowing that with the good advice will come ad, and I just worry, for obvious reasons, that they will both be assigned the same value in her eyes. She is a VERY SMART girl... don't get me wrong. But I know, by my hand, she is not herself right now and is very impressionable.

Yes, we both have issues, I am just the optomist that thinks none of it is bad enough to inflict the irrepribable damage of "mommy and daddy" not living together. I think she agrees, I just think that we are going to need to find a way for her to gain back her "identity", and allow things to settle and see if forgiveness may be an option before jumping into the "seperation" boat. KNow what I mean?

And honestly everyone... tell me what you are thinking here. You aren't going to hurt my feelbads, or say something that is going to make me go upstairs and shake her to death. I am about as open and mindfull of conversation and criticism as anyone I have ever known right now.

I just feel like marriage counseling a couple times a week for a month or so would help us see if things will have a chance or not? What is everyone's feelings on that?

Yes, that is what I meant by the kids learning from your actions. I did not mean to sit them down and give them all the instructions. Actually, if you are working toward improving, that could be a good lesson for them to "learn" through observation.

And if your wife sees that behavior as what the kids can learn from the situation... very good.

I didn't mean it to sound like all the personal business should be shared with them.

What we mean by the kids is they pick up on things more than we realize. They see dad gone and mom disfunctional over it and crying her heart out. They preceive things that we are not even aware they notice without you having to say a word. Then they construe the events in their own little minds.

Often kids see an alcoholic dad beat mom and they swear they will never do the same only to grow up and be the exact way their dad was because it is learned behavior. Nobody told them, nobody even realized what they were thinking or anything. They are just innocent by standers absorbing their environment.


Oh, absolutely! You couldn't be more right and we couldn't be more guilty of not being aware of that from the beginning. Our 5 year old is an incredibly smart girl. You are right she knows what is going on, because in the whirl of it all we have forgotten that she is around during some fights, our phone conversations with other people, etc. She has asked "mommy why are you so mean to daddy?" She has said "I am sad and scared and I don't want mommy to leave". She picks up on things I say and in some instances has misheard or misunderstood things (as any 5 year old will) and repeated them which has in turn created huge conflict on the grounds that one of us is trying to badmouth, or brainwash, the kids. Not the case. Really, we thought it was doing enough to explain to her that everything would be all right and no one was ever going to leave her etc. But recently it has hit home hard that all of this really needs to be vented and discussed behind closed doors no matter how nicely we may be talking. Another reason I feel that being in counseling away from the house and with a mediator would be beneficial. Possibly removing a slight bit of hesitation and added emotion from the exchanges between us.

I feel absolutely horrible for what are little girl has already heard and experienced. We can't change what is done though, but we as parents truly care about thses kids more than anything and have vowed to not do it anymore.

I appreciate everyone being concerned for our babies. They are honestly ridiculously wonderful kids.

Yes, that is what I meant by the kids learning from your actions. I did not mean to sit them down and give them all the instructions. Actually, if you are working toward improving, that could be a good lesson for them to "learn" through observation.

And if your wife sees that behavior as what the kids can learn from the situation... very good.

I didn't mean it to sound like all the personal business should be shared with them.



Whew! Damn... I was worried there for a minute ;-) I really do agree with you on this subject and I am very open with my 5 year old about what is going on. She knows that daddy was naughty and made some mistakes and then lied about them. She knows that that is why mommy is mad at hime sometimes and why we need to talk so much without her around recently. She is very understanding and I TRULY DO WANT HER TO KNOW THAT I MESSED UP AND IT WASN'T RIGHT. When she gets older, I will honestly sit down with her whether her mom and I are together or not, and explain what I did in detail and that she needs to learn from that.

I really take pride is raising my kids. I have amazing parents and had a great childhood. I tell my wife all the time that what I want is for our kids to feel the same way about us as I do about my parents. I want them to love their mom and treat her like a queen and think she can and has done no wrong.

I am a good person people... really... I just got seriously screwed up and lost for about 4 years of my life. I was surrounded by a lifestyle that promoted lies and deception and urged and teased me to be the best at it. I got hurt badly by my wife when she left the first time while pregnant with our our daughter and that instilled a lot of paranoia and controlling behaviors in me for fear of being hurt again. I have a personality where I need to feel needed. I am a giver and often times to a fault.

I know what we have is wonderful. We just need to uncover it again and learn from all this. Me most of all. I am scared to death I won't get another chance, and if I don't I will never hold that against her. I have told her, she is a smart girl and I have always trusted her instinct as far as what is best for this family, and that will always be true.

I JUST THINK WE NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP, not saying it to fix our marriage, but to fix our relationship, and our ability to communicate. If our marriage doesn't work out, at least we will be better people and better able to co-parent our kids for the next 20 years.

I'll wish you the best of luck in the counseling. I think you have a shot. Something good to hope for for both of you.

I'll wish you the best of luck in the counseling. I think you have a shot. Something good to hope for for both of you.


Thanks. Really, all I am hoping for right now is that she isn't too tired and given up all hope of making things work. I hope, just really truly hope, she will go to counseling with me with an open mind and see what happens. I really don't deserve someone as wonderful as her, but I just want to spend my life trying to deserve her. I think the things I have done have put her into such a deep about of depression that it is literally impossible for her to view me as anything but a negative force. I don't blame her for any of it. I just want to fix it. Unfortunately, it is one of the things I cannot do for her, she has to want to, I am just afraid of her not being able to muster the energy. I love her so damn much.

Hopefully she will be able to get some treatment for depression as well. With an improvement in that, her energy levels may rise... perhaps do it in conjunction with counseling. It is not a guarantee, that she will decide to stay, or that the counseling will go as you hope, but something to hope for that is better than the present.

I understand if you have fears that her seeing a counselor for her depression may influence her to distance from you... a counselor should support her in what ever choice she makes, not influence her... it will be up to her to decide if she feels it is beneficial to pursue staying in the relationship and take those steps... a counselor should only help her make the choice not decide for her.

Hopefully she will be able to get some treatment for depression as well. With an improvement in that, her energy levels may rise... perhaps do it in conjunction with counseling. It is not a guarantee, that she will decide to stay, or that the counseling will go as you hope, but something to hope for that is better than the present.

I understand if you have fears that her seeing a counselor for her depression may influence her to distance from you... a counselor should support her in what ever choice she makes, not influence her... it will be up to her to decide if she feels it is beneficial to persue staying in the relationship and take those steps... a counselor should only help her make the choice not decide for her.


I don't fear her seeing a counselor now. I did before, when I was afraid of her finding out I was lying. I was just scared less and lost and wanted out but didn't want to lose her. You know, all the normal thoughts of someone who did something horrible and is sorry, but doesn't want his mistake to ruin his life. Right now, I would drive her to counseling and watch the kids until she got home. I just hate seeing my wife so unhappy. It is dumbly difficult to go from the person who makes a persons life the greatest thing in the world, to someone who makes her not want to get out of bed in morning. Alll the while addressing your problems and full well knowing you are a better person than you were when things were great? Just life you know. FRUSTRATING... if we could turn back time.

I will support this woman until I die. THere is not a single part of my marriage vows that I do not feel more strongly about today than I did the day I took them.

I Really really really just want to see a smile on her face in day to day life again. Not just when she is out forgetting about the trials of life with a few beers in her. I just want her to be a happy normal wife again. My partner in life. It is just ty that it is all my fault and I cannot just reach out and change it. She is repulsed by me right now and I want nothing more than to lay down next to her in bed, squeeze her tight and tell her everything is OK.

AHHHHHH!!

Talk with her about going to the counseling. Encourage it. Make some plans with hopes for the positive benefits with her... hop off here and have more talk with her about doing this on Monday to begin... find out if she is willing to go...

It might take some time to get an appointment

I know. I will do just that rest assured. I know we are going to make it through this. It just feels like I am the only one that feels that... and honestly it is getting to be a tougher and tougher place to be. We will make it though. Thanks for the conversation Buckeye Boy ;-)

A note peoplechange 100606 and the original poster are the same person.

Their acounts have been banned.

Looks like a troll more than a real person needing help.