For those who don't already know my situation- you can read about here:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/real-estate-law/questions-about-contract-deed-sellers-actions-142411-2.html

But basically, I am buying a house, owner financed.

Our December payment was late, a piece of equipment at my husband's place of employment broke and he was laid off for 3 weeks until it got fixed. He got unemployment, but it is only about 1/3 of his normal paycheck. So we didn't get our payment sent until the end of the month. The lady we are buying from called my mom on Thursday evening saying she hadn't gotten payment(tracked with post office, was delivered the day she called) and she told my mom that if she didn't have December's payment, January's payment, and all late fees by that Saturday she would have to ask us to move. My mom told me Friday morning and I called and told her that post office stated they delivered the day before and she said she hadn't been to post office to check mail. I asked her about her wanting us to move if we didn't have everything paid by Saturday. She said yes that was right. I asked for her to send me something in writing stating this. She then got quiet and asked really nasty what we had sent. I said December's Payment and December's Late Fee. She wanted to know when we would be sending January's payment and I said next week. She then began telling me about all these months we supposedly owed late fees for and how she was doing us a favor by not charging us a late fee on a late fee. I explained that we shouldn't have a late fee on those months she is saying because our contract says no late fee until after payment is 15 days late. We were not 15 days late on all those months. Only a few times besides this month. She swears it doesn't say that and wants me to fax her a copy, so I did that today. She never did answer my question about sending me something in writing about moving or mention it again after I asked for something in writing. The last thing she said about moving was that she wanted us to if we didn't have January's payment and the supposed late fees there by that Sat. the 5th. The exact day that January's payment is due.

As stated in other post, our contract says late fee after 15 days, if 30 days late then the sellers can demand we pay the balance in full or vacate. So, I don't feel that we should have to move, we were late, but not 30 days and paid the late fee in addition to the payment for December.

Should we move and then fight it out in court or stay put and see what happens?

I can't wait until March when we get the place financed through a company instead of her. Her husband was very easy to deal with, since she took over handling everything it has been something new for her to complain about each month. After we bought the place we found out we were the 4th person to owner-finance it, the other's had left in middle of contract, I think I am understanding why.

I can see the game the wife is playing with you just may work again if you're not careful. Wow do they have a racket going! From what you've said they can't just throw you out like that or charge late fees if you were not late. Try and catch up so Mrs. Nasty shuts up and if you can somehow stay until you can get for real financing from a bank or whoever in March. Who make up this unconscionable contract in the first place? Good heavens what were you thinking when you agreed to this one way contract. The way they have it, it seems that heads they win and tails they win and you happily get to give them all your money like it or not. I just hope to heaven that you didn't give these greedy sob's a large amount of money to have the privilege of living in the house for a short period.

Good heavens what were you thinking when you agreed to this one way contract.

What do you mean "one way contract".

The contract actually provides us with some protection if we were ever to be 30 days late. It would allow us 30 days to arrange financing elsewhere instead of just losing our house.

I don't mind the contract so much, as long as she goes by the contract. But having to move if payment is not made the day it is due, is NOT in the contract. Having to deal with her rudeness and discussing our business with everyone else is NOT in the contract either. It is not my mother's business about our payments, she shouldn't call her and discuss it with her and she was very rude to my mom, more rude than to me, and called her at 11:30 at night, this is the 2nd time she has done that, the first time was on Christmas Eve.

I read your previous post and can tell you that you should be able to sleep at night knowing that since they did not do anything to you when you were more than 30 days late - no judge in his right mind would listen to them now and make you move for something you did a year ago. Once a landlord or property seller takes your money they have agreed to the terms that existed before (i.e. the money being paid late) are now null and void. In other words once you have paid the money and they take it, they cannot go back a year and demand that you leave since you were 30 days late with the payment last year. Sorry, no tickee, no washee. Mrs. Nasty zero, Famlee 1.

As for the taxes, I sure hope they paid the taxes on the property. If they are having you pay the taxes to them, don't pay to them directly but the next time they are due I would go down and pay them myself and get a receipt. Be sure to do like the one gentleman said to take the contract down and have it registered. This will definitely throw Mrs. Nasty for a loop, believe me. She will hopefully start paying attention to the law now that she has moved to California. It seems she was sitting on a little gold mine there in Missouri.

The reason she calls your mother is because she cannot face you and knows that by calling your mom she has your mom actually "work" for her for free to get you to do whatever she wants you to do. Her scare tactics seem to have been working as I can see you are quite upset about this situation. I know I would be if I were you and did not know the law and how devious and unscrupulous some people can be. Tell your mom not to talk with her any more as she needs to either phone you or send you whatever she wants in writing. And yes, do keep all of her letters.

And yes, I'd fight Mrs. Nasty tooth and nail in court over this. A judge could see right through her scam in a heartbeat. I was a paralegal for years in Florida and Ohio and have seen a lot of shaky deals get shot down by judges. Don't let her push you around. If you want the home and land... by golly fight for it! She cannot do anything now a full year later about the late business. She cannot do anything now once she has accepted your check and cashed it. She has accepted your terms once she has taken the money.

Sleep better. You're ahead of the game for now. Pay her the late fees in full so this is not a monthly carry over amount. Be up to date somehow with the payments even if you have to borrow the money from your folks to do it. Pray to the Lord for his help also. It can't hurt.

She is lying to you to scare you. She has to obey the loan documents.

You did not say if this was a real owner finance, in those the deed was put into your name, and she would have to foreclose, to do that you would have to be in default and normally allowed a chance to bring it up to date.

IF you do not have a late fee till the 15th, she can't change you one period, no matter how much she wants to.

Now if this is a rent to own, or a contract for deed, then if you default in any manner, they can basically change the contract to a rental agreement in most cases, ** what does the actual contract say.

But of course, she did not really want you out, she wanted the money paid, that is why she called. Also note that calling your mom and telling her you owe this much or that much is ilegal, they can not discuss your money owed with anyone other than yourself, unless you gave her permission,

Hi, didn't know you were on line now. Have your mom get an unlisted phone number if this woman keeps calling at late hours. Mrs. Nasty thinks everyone is on her time zone apparently and is more than inconsiderate to call of Xmas eve.

Send Mrs. Nasty a certified letter telling her that you wish that all communication be with you via the U.S. Mail when you send your payment... or if you have already sent the payment, send her a separate letter telling her mail only communication. Be sure to keep a copy of this letter in case you need to show to the judge.

This sounds more like one of those old "land contract" agreements than an owner financing agreement.

Now if this is a rent to own, or a contract for deed, then if you default in any manner, they can basicly change the contract to a rental agreement in most cases, ** what does the actual contract say.

But of course, she did not really want you out, she wanted the money paid, that is why she called. Also note that calling your mom and telling her you owe this much or that much is ilegal, they can not discuss your money owed with anyone other than yourself, unless you gave her permission,


It is a contract for deed, sorry I keep forgetting that legally there is a difference in the two phrases. But as for defaulting, I paid the late fee for the payments that were actually late by our contract and apart from the year ago(which I am not longer worried about) I have never been over 30 days late.

I know(or feel) that if she was to actually send me something in writing saying to move, I could fight it. But, was just wondering if I should move and then fight it or stay put and fight it.

I did give her permission to leave a message with my mom if she needed to contact me and couldn't reach me at my home. I use my land line for internet, no dsl here yet-6000 feet to far from server- and have a cell phone I use for telephone calls. Sometimes I don't get signal if I'm in another room or the weather is wrong, etc. She called my husband's work for something retarded like it was an emergency-nothing to do with payment- I sent her a letter saying that we didn't want calls at his work because the employer didn't like it, to call us-send us a letter- or leave a message at my mom's house. So, in away I gave her permission to call, but not discuss our personal matters with my mom.

Since she is not a 3rd party debt collector, she doesn't fall under the FDCPA, and am not sure if she falls under any creditor laws as an individual. Was researching that.

They only moved to CA because her husband had cancer and did better out there. He passed last month. So, I don't know that she really didn't want us out... has got me thinking she is wanting to move back here.

As of now, everything is up to date except for January's payment which was due 3 days ago and the late fees that she states we owe that we don't owe according to the terms of our contract. January's will be made within the next week.

Thanks for all the responses, advice, suggestions, etc. Is greatly appreciated.

You have to remember, most people who sell on land contracts expect you not to stay. I sold a lot of houses on land contracts ( and yes there is the difference of day and night of your rights between owner finance and a land contract). On mine I sold one house three times within two years, that is how the money on land contracts are normally made, They make you pay a large down payment ( that you can't get back normally if you walk away or default) and then payments, so they want you to leave, so that they can resale the house to another person and get that large down again and again. My uncle I think sold one house almost 15 times before I actually bought it off him and then sold it myself to someone else.

So most likely she is going to try and chase you away if that is what she is trying to do. But no, you want to follow every term of your contract, no more and no less. You actually want to try and always have one to three payments saved ahead in the bank, in case there is a problem latter.

I concur. I really think you should stay put and keep on doing what you are doing. I know having a dial up internet can be bothersome. I guess Mrs. Nasty does not have email to contact you with so you had no choice but to give her your mom's phone number and hubby's work number. Since her husband passed not too long ago, I've gotten the feeling that she is strapped for money living out in California where prices are double of what she was used to in Missouri. Missouri to California must have been quite a shock for her financially and could be literally living from one payment of yours to the next for extra money. She may just be in shock from the death of hubby also. She'll have a few months more of this and then she might get back to normal. Right now I'm guessing she is one stressed out cookie to be sure.

If you want to stay, then by all means stay. Do try to get your own financing on the place as soon as you can. It would make your situation much less stressful for you and your family. It might be more difficult in today's money credit crunch, but things can change down the road soon.

The idea of keeping the extra payments in the bank is an excellent option also. Be sure to take the contract and have a copy on file at the courthouse just in case Mrs. Nasty dies (just a thought) and you would like to keep staying there and need to settle up with her heirs, etc. or the court.

The reason I said "one way contract" was for the reason Chuck stated about musical homes and reselling them when buyers cannot keep paying. Sometimes owner financing can be real tough on people who do not have credit or good credit and they don't have many options to own anything worthwhile. The 30 day window really does not allow a buyer much "breathing room" to recoup and get back on their feet financially when unforseen financial disasters loom in your life. I, too, have seen the land purchase contracts on musical homes and properties and the resulting heartache of buyers handing over money to never see again.

Hang in there... it definitely will get better for you soon! I promise!

Well, well, well, What have we gotten ourselves into and why were we so trusting and stupid and not involve an attorney?

Ok, I sent her the copy of my contract that states no late fee until 15 days late, NOT late fee after the 15th as she claimed.

I got my pass book back in the mail, she has made a new one and kept our old one. None of the months that we have paid a late fee are marked as us paying a late fee. Under amount paid it says "$314.94" like the other months. Doesn't show us paying the extra for late fee.

I called her, she won't allow me to have my old book back. I also explained that I needed a copy of the contract with Exhibits A and Exhibits B attached. She is all stand offish and is refusing to provide a copy because "my copy is the same as hers". I've tried to explain to her that Exhibit A and Exhibit B (they give the legal description of the property) were not attached to mine, her husband had told us that he'd mail us a copy. I also asked if she'd just mail me a list of the restrictions, but if it was a problem I'd just go to courthouse and get a copy. She was very very rude to me telling me that she gave us all those things... they were not given to us. After arguing with her, she says I'm not sending a copy of the contract but go to the shipping store in town and see *****(I won't put his name) and he'll give you all this, I'll call him.

So, he calls me and ask me what exactly we are wanting and I tell him. Now, at this point, I'm wondering why I must get from him. I knew he owned the land next to ours and some of the other tracts down this road, almost all of them at one point. So maybe he just has a copy and will give us one.

I go meet him and get the things from him. At this time I found out that the people who sold us the land and entered into the contract with us, DOESN'T EVEN OWN THE LAND, HE DOES!! He is selling it to him, on contract for deed or owner financing-not sure which, and they are selling it to us on contract for deed!

I have an appointment next Friday with a real estate attorney. I can't believe this. They NEVER disclosed to us verbally or in the contract that they were not the owners of the land. I understand that it may be legal for them to sell it, but should they not be required to disclose this information to the buyers? We would never have entered into a contract for deed and sink over $20K in down payments, payments, and repairs knowing this. It just seems to risky. Obviously if she fails to make her payments, then we lose our house as well. Sure we can always get a judgement, but good luck ever collecting on them.

Obviously they saw the big stupid sign on our heads. I feel like such an idiot. All we wanted was our own place, that we owned, could raise our family and know we always had it to call home.

Is there even a mortgage company that would touch this and give us a loan with so many different parties involved?

Stupid... stupid... stupid...