Since the USA government knows that one significant cause of crime in the United States is severe poverty, why doesn't it whipe it out? It has the ability. But instead, it prefers to BILLIONS of tax dollars to foreign aid.


Why?

Hi;

If you wiped out poverty, there would still be crime ::)

Hi

I am from South Africa where we have the highest crime rates in the world, however I will state that poverty is one source of crime because of the shear need involved, it is not the entire end all and be all. White collar crime is on the increase and it does not even mean that there is a need, or poverty.

One country that has eradicated poverty at one time was Malawi, and if you look at it today it is rife with crime.

>:(

Read my lips: even if you wiped out poverty, it would not stop people from committing crime. :-/

You are incorrect in the assumption that poverty is a cause of crime. The overwhelming majority of poor people are not criminals. Crime is caused by people who make the decision to do wrong to others in ways prohibited by law. The various factors that lead up the decision the person makes to commit a crime may be related to the fact that they do not have enough resources to obtain everything they want, but this fact in itself does not remove their ability to tell right from wrong.

I am an ex-police officer and have been a probation officer for seven years. Most of the people I have dealt with are poor, have a low-level education, and often have drug, alcohol, or other related problems. Most of them did not commint their crime because they were poor, but because they thought they could get away with it and did not have the moral strength to resist the temptation.

Saying poverty causes crime is like saying guns cause murder. Someone has to make the conscious choice to pull the trigger or commit the crime.

Let me add a bit more to my previous comments. The government does not have the power to wipe out poverty because people have the choice to decide what they are going to do with their lives and how they are going to live them. In this country, we have wiped out poverty to the extent that a poor person on welfare in this country is living at a high standard of living compared to other countries like China and North Korea, for example, where kids live in the street and starve to death because the government allows this to happen. We have social protections to ensure that this does not happen in this country.

If a person decides to drop out of high school, commit crimes, or ruin their lives with drugs or alcohol, they will quite likely end up in poverty. This is the choice they made, and our government does not control these types of personal life choices. Therefore poverty will remain as long as people continue to make these types of choices in their lives.

Mr. Gunther is right on point

Okay so lets just hypothetically take a look a Wilson's "Broken Window's Theory". The grand theory was that crime was higher in impoverished areas because they were poor and simply didn't care. So these areas were allowed to run down and criminals flocked to these areas. Hence the whole broken windows crack house image. So the city of New York (thanks Guliani) decided to clean up the Ghettos to stop crime to help them get reasonable housing and get rid of the crack houses with broken windows. As they cleaned these area thus increasinf self worth and helping create an economy the crime simply spread into the newly created area and into other neighborhoods.
I am from Eastern Kentucky poverty doesn't cause crime... it cause a cycle of welfare dependants.l

My dear friends do not forget that crime has many faces,it comes from everywhere it comes from a cigarrette smoker ,pot smoker.junk food eater.even a girl cannot dress they way she wants no more low cut pants that shows the belly button.I tell you my friends the list goes on and under all of this lies the real crime,you see the gove,with all its rules has raised the crime rate.

Hi,
I wholeheartedly agree with your statement about spending billions of dollars in foreign aid.
Charity begins at home...
This has been forgotten by Senators and Representatives.
Until the American public demands a different approach to help those in our own United States FIRST, then it will not change. The American public can change course of events, but only if there are enough voters to do it.
For example; Senior Citizens are beginning to have an impact on voting, after many, many years; cause there are now more of us who have the same problems with the government.
Some day, it might change, but only if enough voters fight.
Congress only listens to the votes they receive, or are predicted to receive.
Best wishes,
fredg

Simply because certain people project lack into their reality does not mean that they are criminal. These are two completely different things.
All dogs are animals but not all animals are dogs.

So you are saying that poor people are dishonest??

How sad a though and how wrong. Most poor people are the best and most generous people you will find. It is not the poor people but the greedy and lazy people. The ones who don't want to work for a living.

Most criminals make a fairly good living stealing and selling drugs, they are not poor by any means. So why after they get out of debt don't they stop stealing and selling drugs and get a regular job??

It is the fact they don't want to live at a lower level working at McDonalds or hauling frieght at UPS. They want to drive nice cars, have lots of fancy girls and do what they want.

Even the other level, the steet people, many of the beggers earn 200 to 300 dollars a day ( this was in Atlanta a few years ago) but they blow the money before the day is over and will still steal to add to their needs.

Sorry but you have bought into a steriotype that is not true.
It is like most people in West Virginia all marry their cousins, there are a lot of people preaching a lot of false ideas to help them in their political movement, truth has little to do with most of them

In my opinion when a person losses the ability to see the difference between right and wrong, he/she is more likely to commit crime. Economics have very little play here. I've known people that have good jobs and make good money, but still think getting a baseball bat and beating others unconscious is normal behavior.

On my point of vue Poverty, by itself, is not the original cause however, the situation in itself and all the consequences that are inherent to that condition may induce, propitiate criminal behaviours.

mariamar

A person that commits a crime almost always does so by their own choice (yes, there are some exceptions).

Rationalizing that choice by saying you are impoverished is just an excuse.

Let´s imagine this situation: you (married or not) have a family (your kids);you and your husband were unemployed or you, head of the family, found yourself unemployed.
Meanwhile, you had your rent to pay, and some more expenses/commitments you had to face... You felt obliged to face your responsabilities and, with all your efforts, you could pay your debts...
Meanwhile, you had children at home -your children! - and they needed to be fed... Naturally you couldn´t afford to buy steaks nor even cheese to feed them... You were in such a position you couldn´t afford to bring home anything else but bread, for instance...
Question: For how long would you stand such a situation, looking at your children eyes and assisting to their weakness?.
Shouldn´t you be tempted to do something less correct?.
I´ve never did it, because I do not need to do it; but I know I can´t guess my behaviour if I was in such a situation... The only thing I am sure is that I LOVE MY CHILDREN and would do everything to mitigate/comfort their suffering, hunger, famine...

mariamar ( not a criminal!)

You are trying to goat someone into agreeing that stealing is wrong.

But really, you are just trying to prove a way people rationalize it.

I for one, would feed my kids. If I couldn't afford it, I would go to a food bank.

If I stole, and got caught, I would go to prison. Would that be BETTER for my kids? I think not.

With all my respect, Captain, I think you misunderstood me.
I just tried to expose a limit situation... and that is not a crime!
Concerning Food Banks, I live in Portugal, and they do not exist everywhere.
By the way, you do not need to be so aggressive with me.
I feel free to make my reflexions and to think on subjects I may never, ever thought before.
My cumpliments

mariamar

With all my respect, Captain, I think you misunderstood me.
I just tried to expose a limit situation...and that is not a crime!


Yeah, I kind of picked up on that. You were trying to show that in some cases, it is rationale to steal. I disagree with you on this.



Concerning Food Banks, I live in Portugal, and they do not exist everywhere.


I did not know that. Thank you for enlightening me.

There are other options if food banks are not an option. You can take your money and spend it on food first. That way you make sure you do indeed have food for your kids.



By the way, you do not need to be so aggressive with me.
I feel free to make my reflexions and to think on subjects I may never, ever thought before.


I am sorry if you thought I was attacking/being aggressive with you. That was not my intention.

I simply meant to counter your argument with points from the other side.

Let´s imagine this situation: you (married or not) have a family (your kids);you and your husband were unemployed or you, head of the family, found yourself unemployed.
Meanwhile, you had your rent to pay, and some more expenses/commitments you had to face...You felt obliged to face your responsabilities and, with all your efforts, you could pay your debts...
Meanwhile, you had children at home -your children! - and they needed to be fed...Naturally you couldn´t afford to buy steaks nor even cheese to feed them...You were in such a position you couldn´t afford to bring home anything else but bread, for instance...
Question: For how long would you stand such a situation, looking at your children eyes and assisting to their weakness?!...
Shouldn´t you be tempted to do something less correct?...
I´ve never did it, because I do not need to do it; but I know I can´t guess my behaviour if I was in such a situation...The only thing I am sure is that I LOVE MY CHILDREN and would do everything to mitigate/comfort their suffering, hunger, famine...

mariamar ( not a criminal!)

This makes me think of that line from the Simpson's where Flander's parents take him to the doctor and say "We've done nothing, and we're all out of ideas!".

This is a very hypothetical situation... However - If it were me, I would seek social assistance to ensure my family has at least a roof over their head and food to eat. I would not try and rob the local 7-11.

Hi,
Yes, Poverty is one major reason for crime. That is a statistic; and it doesn't matter if one agrees with it or not; it's still statistically true.
Wiping out Poverty would not mean all crime would be gone, but it would be a step in the right direction!
Big Money runs Congress; as seen all over the Network News programs, scandals brought out and some lobbyists being charged with crimes. Nothing will change until a significant number of American people decide they have had enough. Spending Billions of dollars in other parts of the World has to be looked at, by the American people. Some is good, other is simply just a waste.
That money could be spent here at home, helping others; but not by the Federal Gov't; they will mess up anything for Big Money. Turning it over to private people would help a lot.
In the aftermath of Katrina, more is being done by private donations and private people in finding, and building new homes for those who lost everything, rather that by the Federal Gov't.
Poverty in American is a shame, a disgrace, and millions of Senior Citizens without prescriptions drugs is the same type of thing.

It´s interesting!. I have done my commdents today and they simply disappeared!!
Thank you!

mariamar

P.S. Anyway... I´ve printed them

Well... first of all, I feel like if I was a criminal behaviour defensor and.. and I am not!. Not at all, indeed!
I am just a social worker, used to reflexion and whom desperately seeks for rational explanations for some criminal attitudes.
Secondly, I feel myself as being on a disavantage towards
All of you, once I can´t express myself as you do, in English, because Portuguese is my mother language...
Thirdly, through your answers and its consequent content analysis, I felt the need to look at your personal profiles and... helas... I could see both of you are from/or live in Canada!.
Being so and knowing how developed are Social Politics on your country.. yes.. I can perfectly understand your arguments and they couldn´t be other different than the ones you have posted!!
But Canada is not the centre of the World and on most part of the planet Social politics are not so developed as they are in there, when and if they exist... because there are countries where they simply do not exist!!
Everything in life is relative and refers to the places, politics and circumstances!.

mariamar

Thirdly, through your answers and its consequent content analysis, I felt the need to look at your personal profiles and...helas...I could see both of you are from/or live in Canada!...


While phillysteakandcheese and I are from Canada, Fredg is from the USA.

Being so... would you like to have a look at this site?.

http://www.ekincaglar.com/coin/flash.html

This is the world where we live in!!



mariamar

Captain!.
I have written the word BOTH, once I was answering to both of you!!

Being so...would you like to have a look at this site?!...

http://www.ekincaglar.com/coin/flash.html

This is the world where we live in!!!


When you say we, do you refer to those people living in Portugal like yourself?




I have written the word BOTH, once I was answering to both of you!!!

I saw that. But, as you said,


Secondly, I feel myself as being on a disavantage towards
all of you, once I can´t express myself as you do, in English, because Portuguese is my mother language...


So I just assumed you used inappropriate grammar.

Being so...would you like to have a look at this site?!...

http://www.ekincaglar.com/coin/flash.html

This is the world where we live in!!!


You live in Africa? I thought Portugal was a bit more advanced than that.

Yes, there is poverty in the world. No one is denying that. But poverty can never be eliminated with more foreign aid. The corrupt regimes there have to be removed first.

« I have learnt Silence from the talkative, Tolerance from the intolerant, and Kindness from the unkind; yet strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.» Kahlil Gibran


mariamar

Hi,depends on what kind of crime you mean;violent crime?yes,poor uneducated people tend towards violent crimes,while more educated better off people tend towards more sophisticated crime.So no,poverty is not a significant cause of crime,it's more like discontent!

Hi nonso
Concerning myself,I just was thinking on some hypothetical consequences of misery and famine.
I agree with you when you make the distinction between "violent" or "sophisticated" crimes, provided that there are "sophisticated" crimes impregnated with quite an extent of direct or indirect violence.


Maria

Many have mentioned the obvious fact that poverty does not cause crime, but I say crime causes poverty. People who choose to break the law are in general poorer than the rest of the population because they are criminals not the other way around. In a free market people benefit from being moral. We make more money, have more friends, do better in general by being moral. Employers will pay more (Higher wages) for the same skills in honest people versus in dishonest people. Also people like to spend their money at businesses that are honest and do right by the customers, so money flows into the hands of honest moral people and away from dishonest immoral people. I work hard and am honest not because I will go to hell if I don’t but because I am a better person because of it or because of SELF INTEREST. I make more money, have more friends etc.. Being Moral, in general makes me better off. People who are not moral are worse off. Of course this does not apply to individuals, but to millions of people in general.

Also Poverty is relative. Relative to Africa we have no poverty in this country (USA). The people we consider under the poverty line have more material wealth than the average people in Europe ( see http://www.timbro.com/euvsusa/pdf/EU_vs_USA_English.pdf )

Our poor people have more cars, living space, VCR’s Cell phones, MP3 players etc than the average person in Europe (I spent two weeks there last summer and believe me its just a little better than a 3rd world country compared to the USA). Europe is so poor compared to the USA because they are more socialist than we are. They have less freedom and thus they have less wealth (Ok I'll stop that is another question)

Hello:

The drug war creates crime and increases poverty. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking with it.

excon

In a perfect world a lot of your statements would be true. I live in the US and I can tell you that is very hard to receive government assistance. My grand mother is over 80+ years young and lives on a fixed income. She can qualify for a whole 27 dollars a month in food stamps. What can that buy? But if her skin color was other than white she could get 200 to 300 a month in food stamps. My brother has talked about drug dealing gust to make ends meet. He is paying right at 300 a week in child support to a crazy woman to care for his boys. She calls and sends pictures to him showing what she spends his money on. NEW CAR, NAILS, HAIR, HER CLOTHES; while his boys are locked in a room and threatened of being shipped off to a home for boys. He now has another child that he has to care for, and he only has about 124 dollars a week to fend for them. He has worked overtime to make extra money to help pay his bills and the witch has threatened to take him back to court for more money. His layer told him that because of his over time he will have to pay more to her, and that B**** has been receiving food stamps. She has remarried and clams that she needs more money. I fear for my brothers well being.
I am here to tell you that if push came to shove that a honest man will turn to crime to feed his family. I can remember a time in my life that where I put in for job after job and I thought that I was at my wits end. I considered traveling down the path of crime to eat. This is not a perfect world that we live in and poverty can and does cause crime. But not all crime is caused by Poverty. Don't get me wrong crime also causes poverty.
The main factor of poverty and crime fall back on the choices we make in life You can't change the past, but you can chose your future. The choice is yours.

There is my little 2 cents.

Since the USA government knows that one significant cause of crime in the United States is severe poverty, why doesn't it whipe it out? It has the ability. But instead, it prefers to BILLIONS of tax dollars to foreign aid.


Why?

Please provide the source for this statement. If you can, I'll provide numerous other theories of crime causation that contradict the statement. Economic causation is but one theory.

Many have mentioned the obvious fact that poverty does not cause crime, but I say crime causes poverty. People who choose to break the law are in general poorer than the rest of the population because they are criminals not the other way around. In a free market people benefit from being moral. We make more money, have more friends, do better in general by being moral. Employers will pay more (Higher wages) for the same skills in honest people versus in dishonest people. Also people like to spend their money at businesses that are honest and do right by the customers, so money flows into the hands of honest moral people and away from dishonest immoral people. I work hard and am honest not because I will go to hell if I don’t but because I am a better person because of it or because of SELF INTEREST. I make more money, have more friends etc.. Being Moral, in general makes me better off. People who are not moral are worse off. Of course this does not apply to individuals, but to millions of people in general.

Also Poverty is relative. Relative to Africa we have no poverty in this country (USA). The people we consider under the poverty line have more material wealth than the average people in Europe ( see Timbro (http://www.timbro.com/euvsusa/pdf/EU_vs_USA_English.pdf) )

Our poor people have more cars, living space, VCR’s Cell phones, MP3 players etc than the average person in Europe (I spent two weeks there last summer and believe me its just a little better than a 3rd world country compared to the USA). Europe is so poor compared to the USA because they are more socialist than we are. They have less freedom and thus they have less wealth (Ok I'll stop that is another question)

Tell me how this squares with the Criminological theory posed by Clollard and Ohland of "Differential illegitiment opportunity"? Not everyone has the same opportunity to acquire the trappings of success.

It is not said that by eliminating poverty all crime would be gone, or that poverty is the only cause of crime, just the largest.