Do you think that spanking a child should be illegal?

No. The choice of discipline should be left up to the parent - not the government.

I do think there is a HUGE difference in spanking and beating. Abusing your child is against the law.

Spanking, no. Beating the livin' crap out of them to the point of physical injury, yes.

Spanking yes, beating no.
There are laws to protect the kids, because so many go way over board, so if it has to be illegal to protect them, then so be it...

Of course not, spanking is one of the best methods of displine that you can use with younger children.

Is that your religious point of view or personal point of view Fr_Chuck?

It may not be illegal but if some one reports it to Child protective services they most often do treat it like it is illegal and then you are put through hell over it. I know many people who are afraid to discipline their kids other than reward system because of CPS.

Both, and from Profession, having worked before in both public school, it was obvious there is little disipline in schools that do not allow spanking where they will not remove a child from a class.

And from work in the prisons and with police departments, while of course not 100 percent by any means, the lack of proper disipline in homes can be seen in the majority of the major social issues today.

If you had ever been taken behind the barn so to speak, you seldom did things to that point again.

Our complete criminal justice system works on that very idea, you do wrong, you will be punished, the worst you do, or the more you do it, the worst your punishment.

This is not beating, but a proper spanking works wonders and should be more the norm in society,

So based on the bible, u agree with the phrase "Spare the rod and spoil the child"?

Yes, a good switch to the rear of a child does not real harm, and a lot of good. Again this is not beating, and has to be done in the proper manner, at the right time.

And basically based on the quran, and the torah proper disipline is very important in child raising.

No, it should be a parents right to choose to disipline their children by spanking or not. I will say however that the palm of the hand fits just right on the cheek of the a**. I don't believe in using things like switches or spanking any where other than the butt or maybe a pop on the hand.
I seen a woman coming out of a store once with a child that was maybe five or 6. First she smacked him across the back of the head then yanked his arm upward till his feet left the ground. I felt so sorry for that poor kid!

Now I will even stop and "get on" a parent that ever hits a child in the face (slap) or back of head.

I think spanking should be illegal!! Hitting doesn't prove anything. It doesn't teach the child why what they are doing is wrong, it just teaches them that when they do it they get pain in return.

I think spanking should be illegal!!!! Hitting doesn't prove anything. It doesn't teach the child why what they are doing is wrong, it just teaches them that when they do it they get pain in return.
So, when your child runs across the street and/or does something dangerous like that... you are going to give him/her a time out? :rolleyes:

A well placed swat on the rear is not abuse. You take that same hand and use across the face, that is abuse. Or you take that same hand and place a belt in it, that is abuse. If the parent cannot control their anger in lashing out at a child who has made a mistake, that is abuse. Discipline is not done in anger. I have seen too much, much too much of badly beaten children. When the parent has no self control, that parent needs the time-out!

A well placed swat on the rear is not abuse. You take that same hand and use across the face, that is abuse. Or you take that same hand and place a belt in it, that is abuse. If the parent cannot control their anger in lashing out at a child who has made a mistake, that is abuse. Discipline is not done in anger. I have seen too much, much too much of badly beaten children. When the parent has no self control, that parent needs the time-out!
A B S O L U T E L Y! ;)

Do you think that spanking a child should be illegal?
The bible tells you in proverbs if you spare the rod you will spoil the child and it will bring you to shame. The bible tells you to discipline your children not kill them so what form of spanking is used would really matter what would be illegal

Do you think that spanking a child should be illegal?Hello Sanjay:

Of course it should be illegal. Why would the most vulnerable amongst us be the only group who can be legally hit. I actually think it's kind of insane.

excon

Hello Sanjay:

Of course it should be illegal. Why would the most vulnerable amongst us be the only group who can be legally hit. I actually think it's kinda insane.

excon
I don't consider a spanking a hit... (there is a difference between the two) but you are right, if you can't control it and it becomes a hit... then you, we have to make sure the most vulnerable are protected! Protecting the kids and supporting them is a very very important thing! I was spanked, hardly ever, but for what ever reason, I never did what I got one for again.

Do you think that spanking a child should be illegal?
i think that beating a child with anything besides a belt and thats painful than a belt is illegal

I feel that this depends on the crime and the child. I have a nine year old who has NEVER been touched. She makes the honor roll... she helps with chores and she responds to being talked to and having things explained to her.
I am not saying that she will never be spanked but things have never gotten out of hand. Maybe it is luck or maybe I am dong the right thing.
Do what your heart tells you.

I don't believe spanking should be illegal. My child knows if he does something wrong he will get one warning. If he does it again he gets a spanking and a time out. I use both forms of punishment so he will learn he is not to do that certain thing again. I remember when I was little, maybe 7 or 8, my mom was getting on to me for doing something and I called her a f'ng b!tch. She slapped me hard in the mouth. I was mad at the time but now that I can look back on that, I believe I deserved it. Mind you I never talked back to my momma again. ;)

Do I think that hitting is right? No. But do I think that spanking should be made illegal. No. I agree with Start on this. There is a difference between a swat on the rump and a slap across the face. I can tell you the one and only time that I was spanked, it was because I tried putting something in an outlet. My dad swatted me then. I was NEVER hit.

I also believe that spankings, if given, should be given at home. Teachers or other professionals should not be allowed to give corporal punishment.


FYI I am a teacher

I think a tap on the butt is appropriate for younger kids, but as they get older talking should be all you need, if you have guided them well when they were smaller. Even with a smack on the butt, they have to know why you took that action, so to teach them smack and talk, and no it should not be left to government, how you disipline your kids. Your crazy if you think anyone will run my home but me, especially not some smart a$$ brats.

I don't think spanking is right. My father did that to me. Every time he got mad at me, and I had no choice but to walk past him, I always flinched. And hesitated that he would spank me. I don't think you want your kids to be afraid of you now would you?

Spanking shouldn't be used for every day types of situations, for you to flinch when you walk by your father... that is scary, and I am sorry to hear that.

I think there are to many peopl out there who do cross the line and harm or hurt there children but turn around and say its discipline I don't agree with spanking I have a 3 year old and have found many other methods besides spanking or harming my child in any way she is not out of control or running all over me so I think that if you have to spank that its sad that an adult has to resort to acting like a child to get there point across it's a no win situation and if you do cross the line you deserve to be in jail

Saying too many cross the line, so there should be no spanking is like saying too many people speed, so no one should drive,

Spanking properly is a very good method and is not acting like a child but rather perhaps acting like a parent and doing proper disipline to help raise a child properly.

And those that do cross the line, do go to jail,

Spanking properly is a very good method and is not acting like a child but rather perhaps acting like a parent and doing proper disipline to help raise a child properly.




Proper discipline? I think that is a matter of opinion. Spanking children should be a last resort, in my opinion.

Yes, a last resort, but always a open option to be done.

Only when they are young
- as a last means
- with several pre warnings
- never out of anger
- never as a habit


I am very short fused but, I only spanked my son a few times before the age of 8.
Ive never spanked my daughter.

My son did tell me that he would rather have a whippin than me yelling, lecturing, or other forms of nonviolent punishment such as time out or my favorite is to make him read for 10 minutes out loud.



Sometimes that's the only communication a child will resond too when they don't understand why they are not allowed to do certain things. The majority of the time were in situations that he may endanger himself or others.

Fact is that spanking works. Risk is mental trama.

:eek: I feel very strongly about this issue and I feel that spanking should not be legal. A child is going through many developmental stages in life even as adults we are. There brain is growing and learning through experience. We have a tendency in modern society to want a quick this and a quick that. "smack....there see he listened" what this does it creates fear in children and hinders their development. We need to sit down and talk more with our children, stop sitting them in front of the t.v and dictating orders to them over and over throughout the day. Education is the key and giving them choices is the key along with the proper consequences that fit the issue at hand. We are afraid that our children will end up with more control the opposite is true. When you give up the power struggles the child is able to listen and is able to grow in every aspect of their being. Here is an example of a problem. Child is grabbing in the store and is asking for everything. Solution. Try to introduce a fun shopping game and allow the child to participate during the shopping activity,If they are out of control set boundaries... "Kate you are being too loud you can either help mommy shop or I will bring you home and come back to shop alone. Always follow through on your requests the child will learn that you mean business and in the end there is no power struggle because he/she choose. Also you could note their behavior instead of saying terms like that's good that's bad your being good your being bad. By noting the undesired behavior you eliminate attacks to themselves esteem. I have a child, I use these methods and they work. Your child will have a healthy self esteem and will be happier.

I know exactly where you Non-spankers are coming from.
BUT I wasn't traumatized by my very few spankings, I remember why and I remember never doing again. Some kids are different and although yours may have a head that takes a good talking to, a couple (out of my four now five) don't. A spanking does the job and they are still the loving caring kids I had before it, and I am still the loving caring mother I was before it! :)

Well its not that I was afraid of him, its just that I didn't want to be spanked. That was just something to tell you so it doesn't happen to you. Just saying

Yes, I know where the non spankers are coming from, a sad state of liberal education and not enough spanking when they were a child most likely. Of course it is often there children I see destroying everything in sight as the parent ignores them and then gets upset when a stanger yells at them to behave.

? I'm not yelling at you

I really really think for RESPONSIBLE and rational parents spanking is OK. But for others it just isn't
There are too many people beating their children, I wish when they grew up they would give them a piece of what they got as a child... AND not just once!

I think there are to many variables to blanket say that one technique or another is the way to go. What works on yours maynot work on mine. Those are the very real decisions we make as parents, how to raise and teach, and yes, disipline our own kids. Every house is unique, as we are as adults, so we use what we chose, and do what we must. I don't need a law for that.

I really really think for RESPONSIBLE and rational parents spanking is ok. But for others it just isn't
There are too many people beating their children, I wish when they grew up they would give them a piece of what they got as a child...AND not just once!

Who decides who are responsible are rational parents? The parent would not say that I'm irresponsible etc... so I can't beat my child, if you see where I coming from.

Hello again, Sanjay:

I see exactly where you're coming from. People who live inside a bubble have no idea how they're viewed by people living outside.

When I hear about "responsible" and "rational" spanking, I'm reminded of Mayor Giuliani when he talked about waterboarding... He said it's NOT torture depending on how it's done and who does it.

The people INSIDE that bubble all furrowed their brows, and nodded their heads in agreement. To people OUTSIDE the bubble, their mouths dropped open. To them, waterboarding is torture, plain and simple.

To those outside the spanking bubble, hearing those inside say that it's NOT abuse if done by "responsible" parents, makes ones mouth drop open.

excon

Just this one thought, spare the rod, spoil the child.

Who decides who are responsible are rational parents? The parent would not say that i'm irresponsible etc...so i can't beat my child, if u see where i coming from.
In my house I'm the responsible parent, along with my wife. Do you think the government can do better? Do you have an example of that. Granted, some parents are not as good as I am, but I have never seen the government do much of anything right so, I as a rule keep them out of my house, and away from my kids. If you are a responsible parent, and have your kids best interest at heart, you would keep them away from your kids too.

I don't agree there are so many children out there that are being abused and with all that laws its very hard for a parent to have consequences when it comes to abuse there are a lot of chainsthat have to happen firt when a child is in danger. My point is that I do not think that anyone has to resort to spanking there child. There are many other effective ways to get through to your child instead of having them fear you because that's all that it is they may not do something again but not because they have learned that it wrong but because they fear getting spanked I think making your child understand what they did was wrong why it was wrong and implementing a punishment to the effect is more effective and that child will understand that what they did is wrong because of this. When kids who were spnked grow up tey are more likely to get in fights at school or use anger instead or ration and that's a proven fact I don't think it's a matter of opinion I think that there are so many thick headed parents out there that have the attitude that its my child I will do what I want and I do not agree it is your child but they grow up and can easily leave when they are older and when they start getting into trouble the parents sit back and wonder what happrned

Who decides who are responsible are rational parents? The parent would not say that i'm irresponsible etc...so i can't beat my child, if u see where i coming from.
I do see where you are coming from. That is why at the beginning of this whole thing, I noted if it meant less children being abused, then yes, it should be illegal. You know people, sometimes it's OK to "ride both sides of the fence" and still be a great person. Excon, I admire you and you know that , but seriously? Do you think I, should be brought into court for giving them a swat on the butt? Never would I harm my kids, they are healthy silly and smart... Oh crap if you brought my kids with me they would be like what? I deserved that, I was an inch away from getting run over by a truck and I needed to learn my lesson not to run it the road. OR, I threw rocks across the drive way and after 3 times of being told no, I hit the window and all the glass fell on my kitty, I needed a spanking... yes I did, and that my friends is how a spnaking was used in my house.
I just don't see how discussing this any further will do any good. Not unless we help someone here to NOT abuse their child... Or a child that is being abused. So, good parenting to you, hugs!

Tough parents make tough kids who become tough adults. Some who defend our country. I would never want an army of passive soldiers trying to put the enemy in the corner for being bad... lol. (Fit Via Vi) a french term that describes how we have won many wars.. "Way by Force"

Lets face the fact that some kids are different, some are going to require an whipping every now and then. Or you could just dope them up on lithium, ritalin or concerta to calm them. Some kids early on (naturally) start testing and manipulating authority, one step at a time they will take it to the limit too. When all else fails sometimes this is all they will respond to.

Ive spanked my son a few times when he was young and he got the message. I have not spanked any of my kids since. I have spanked my neices on a few occasions for being deiant. (but swatts only) No one was tramatized.


I DO NOT think spanking should be compared to physical abuse. I mean when my son messes up I don't tell to go to the laudry room, turn the iron on and wait until I get there... lol. If you feel that spanking is that wrong then maybe you was abused (or have seen abuse) and that's understandable. Or maybe you've crossed the line ans are guilty of losing control when you get angry. Or maybe you are just a bit more passive than the rest of us.

If my kid turned me in swatting his butt because he (lets say 'Stole stuff again') and I had to pay fines and do time for it. That would put me at the disadvantage as an authority, as a teacher & as a father. I don't believe I would want to be a father in these circumstances.


When I was young and my pops hit me I wish then I could have had them arested. But I don't think I would have learned my lesson for some of the stuff I did. I was a neighborhood terror and contantly had the police at the door before the age of 10. (Thanks dad for getting it into my head on how to act right. Even though I know you held back a lot.)

If you feel that spanking is that wrong then maybe you was abused (or have seen abuse) and thats understandable. or maybe youve crossed the line ans are guilty of losing control when you get angry. Or maybe you are just a bit more passive than the rest of us. Hello hoss:

Soooo, I've been abused... Or, I'VE been the abuser... Or, I'm just not interested... Dude!

What about simply thinking that hitting your children only produces hitters,
Tough parents make tough kids who become tough adults. Some who defend our country. I would never want an army of passive soldiers which, according to you, is a GOOD thing. Sheesh!

excon

Scenerio: Well if my town was getting shot up by terrorists I DO NOT think id call on the pansies to help defend. I would call on a 'hitter' first. If someone jumped on you with a knife in public, what kind of people do you want around. I would certainly pull him off you and strike him in order to take him down to keep you alive.

I knew a man personally who was on the flight 93 during Sept 11. He was the passive man. And from what was gathered, my friend Mickey tried to reason with them before he was slit up with a carpet cutter.

I don't think its "good" it's merely observation. If I had my way I would rid all violence all at once. We all want peace. But I don't have that say, Im in it and this what I see and this is how it is. Don t try to change things that you are confused about.


Yin Yang Theory:
For everything in existence there is an equally opposite & for every action there is an equally opposite reaction. If there was no pain, then there would be no pleasure. No love , no hate and so on. If there was no mean people their would be no pansies... lol. I mean what would you compare them too.


As a last resort people get sent to jail for being bad. Do you think people go to jail to be around and learn from fellow nice people. They go there because it's a hard violent place and if you got any sense, you don't want to go back.. ever. So you act accordingly and obey authority or well put you away again. (people get abused in prison). If I had to I would whip my sons to keep him from acting up so he does and ot end up in prison when he gets older.


FACT: Physical punishment is effective

The very threat of it keeps people from harming one another each day.

I bet if you were babysitting my neices you'd be whipping them the first hour... lol

Hello again, hoss:

In your view, you have to BE hit in order NOT to be pansy. I don't subscribe to that viewpoint.

I do agree with you, however. If you want your children to grow up to be bullies and bad a$$ soldiers or cops, then I think you're doing the right thing by abusing them.

Me?? I raised adults - not soldiers. You're free to call them pansies if that floats your boat. You're also free to think that everybody in jail is "bad". I can't correct ALL your wrongheaded thinking.


Physical punishment is effective. The very threat of it keeps people from harming one another each day.In your world, I'm sure that's true.

In MINE, however, I don't hit people because it isn't civilized. I'm also equally sure, that you haven't a clue what I'm talking about.

excon

I don't have a separate world as you keep describing.
I still don't think spanking should be illegal.

Even civilized people spank their children when necessary.

I also let my son play sports even though I know he's going to get hurt from time to time.
I love competition and camaraderie. He will learn much. I will teach my son to be the Alpha and you show yours to be the Omega.

Historically:
Lest we forget the methods to which our provisions have been made.

I only here because of the caring people before my time were effective (not passive).
In early time it was necessary for even the kids to do their part in order to survive. If they did not do there part RANDOM EXAMPLE: wood piles ran low and people froze to death. Ill be damned if a boy didn't get his assed whipped for being defiant not doing his choirs.


"Spare the Rod and Spoil the child" used to be a common phrase and very true back in the day.


What is your view on spanking your dog when they are disobedient ?
what if they are biting the kids?
what if your child is biting kids?

Hello again, hoss:

I'm really glad you're here. I DO appreciate your being out front about your views. You DO reflect middle America and you are PERFECT for this thread.

You exemplify everything that I've been saying. If you weren't real, people would accuse me of planting you here.

excon

when i was young and my pops hit me I wish then i could have had them arested. But i dont think i would have learned my lesson for some of the stuff i did. I was a neighborhood terror and contantly had the police at the door before the age of 10. Oddly enough I don't spank my kids and no cops have ever been at my door. I wonder why?

I do spank my child - very, very rarely. But it is an option in our displine, depending on the "crime".
It is the last thing I want to do. But sometimes, it has been warranted.

I was spanked as a child - I have never been in trouble. So, what does that say. I am not sure.

I did a paper on this once. Based on my research I have discovered that:

- It teaches your child that violence is an acceptable way to express anger and deal with conflict. This contradicts the rest of how you are trying to raise your child.

- It is painful. Deliberately instilling pain on your child is cruel (even if you believe it's “for their own good”).

- It's harmful emotionally for you. Have you ever felt wonderful after hitting a child?

- It's harmful emotionally for the child, creates resentment.

- Spanking tells a child she/he is powerless.

- It breaks trust and invades a child's sense of security.

- It halts effective communication.

- Where do you go from there? Once you resort to physical discipline, the only steps “up” are more, or stronger physical discipline. Don't start down that path.
It doesn't work! In the very, very short term, you may stop the misbehavior. The backlash is not worth the very, very short term.

N.B I can't remember where I got this info from so please excuse me as I have not cited a source as this info was conducted out by research.

Hello again, hoss:

I find that I must respond again... You keep referring to pansies and alphas and omegas as though you know what they're all about. You don't. You know about being mean. An alpha male isn't mean, he's a leader.

That's a distinction you don't get.

I'll use myself as an example. I wasn't abused as a child, yet I found the need to defend my country when it was my time. I spent 5.5 years on the battlefields of Vietnam. I killed my share. I'm as alpha as you get, and I don't have a mean bone in my body.

So, with all your alpha bravado, how much blood have YOU spilled for your country?? I spilled PLENTY.

excon

No, it was only because of me that got in trouble. My 4 brothers and sisters were not as ornery. They never got in trouble with cops there whole life. But they did get a well deserved whipping when they were younger for mis beaving around the house.

Im glad for you and your well behaved children, unfortunately some folks are not as blessed. You are only one instance. So if you that not hitting your kids equals them not getting in trouble with the law. That is absurd. You're just lucky at being a good parent.

I living breathing proof that discipline works. Ive developed into a well behaved adult, a good father, a good Christian. I have an excellent career as a concept designer. And Im happy I don't get in trouble any more. Lol


Truth:
Fragile kids break easily.

I was spanked FIVE TIMES as a child. I remember EXACTLY what I did to deserve those spankings.

The spankings were resorted to when a time-out (Standing in the corner, for me), reasoning, and being grounded didn't work.

AFTER the spankings, I NEVER did those things again. EVER.

Spanking should not be illegal. Good lord, the government isn't a NANNY, for crying out loud! They shouldn't tell us how to live EVERY aspect of our lives.

Frankly, if you want them to be THAT involved as to tell us how to discipline our kids, how far is it until the step of telling us who can HAVE kids at all?

I living breathing proof that discipline works. Ive developed into a well behaved adult, a good father... How can you be a good father when you aren't around much?
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/family-law/visitation-rights-2-questions-146671.html

I do average 4.5 days per month with one child
And 7 days per month with the other two.That is not being the primary caregiver my friend.

How can you be a good father when you aren't around much?
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/family-law/visitation-rights-2-questions-146671.html
That is not being the primary caregiver my friend.


That is kind of a low blow, NK. You do the best you can with what you have to work with.

Possibly. I assumed that when getting on the high horse about parenting one was actually the primary caregiver.

I have not had to spill any blood for my country.
Thank you for your service. I respect you for that.
When things get out of control, authority will commence.

Im still going to discipline my kids if necessary.
Some things are just necessary. When things get out of control,
Authority will commence.


I didn't drink the koolaid either.

Possibly. I assumed that when getting on the high horse about parenting one was actually the primary caregiver.
Everyone gets to have an opinion, I won't and don't let your opinion stop me from what I think is good parenting! I am a nice loving mother, just cause I gave my kid a spanking doesn't mean that I am not. It is the A-HOLES that give them all the time and go way too far, that is who we should really worry about! High horse? You must have a good view. Mr. I can't do anything wrong!

Possibly. I assumed that when getting on the high horse about parenting one was actually the primary caregiver.

I get what you are saying.
But, is a person less of a parent because he or she is a "weekend parent". Are they less of a child's parent? No. I don't think so.
And I would venture to say that not everyone that has posted on this thread has kids. So, are there opinions less valid?

And, we could possibliy be going off topic... :)

Everyone gets to have an opinion, I won't and don't let your opinion stop me from what I think is good parenting! I am a nice loving mother, just cause I gave my kid a spanking doesn't mean that I am not. It is the A-HOLES that give them all the time and go way too far, that is who we should really worry about! High horse? You must have a good view. Mr. I can't do anything wrong!Hmmmm... I'm not sure why you seem pissed off. Perhaps it's the use of the expression "high horse (http://www.answers.com/topic/high-horse)" which means " A mood or attitude of stubborn arrogance or contempt". Using that xpression has nothing to do with their opinion but with the manner it is presented. My point wasn't the fact that he's for spanking but that he tries to conver that he's a better parent because he does so but uet only sees his kid 4 days a month.

NowWhat, I'm thinking of posting in the Women's Health forum a lot, I hope that's OK, I have a lot of opinions about menstruation and how it feels. :D

/raises hand

I don't have kids.

I DO have 8 nieces and nephews, though, and countless "honorable nieces and nephews" (kids of my friends).

I was also a kid once.

And frankly, as one of those people that has to put up with OTHER peoples' kids in public--I wish people WOULD just swat their kids' rear ends in the store when they act up--or just LEAVE. One or the other. Getting subjected to someone else's kid's time out when all it consists of is having to ride in the cart (screaming at the top of his/her lungs) instead of running crazy in the store is punishment for ME.

Maybe the problem is that spankings or no spankings--too many parents don't have ANY consequences that mean anything to their kids, so of COURSE the kid walks all over them.

I'm sorry--but you can't "reason" with a 3 year old.

Go for it buddy. They may not be as nice to you there though

Maybe the problem is that spankings or no spankings--too many parents don't have ANY consequences that mean anything to their kids, so of COURSE the kid walks all over them. That's the crux. Empty threats are the downfall of any attempt to discipline which can result in the parent getting angry and frustrated and hitting a child for discipline. I had to haul my kid out of the mall twice with her crying her eyes out because I said I would if she would not stop what she was doing. Haven't had to do it since.

And frankly, as one of those people that has to put up with OTHER peoples' kids in public--I wish people WOULD just swat their kids' rear ends in the store when they act up--or just LEAVE. One or the other. Getting subjected to someone else's kid's time out when all it consists of is having to ride in the cart (screaming at the top of his/her lungs) instead of running crazy in the store is punishment for ME.

And then someone who doesn't feel like you do calls CPS and reports they witnessed a beating, your kids get taken away, etc.

It is a bitter cycle. I have left a store before. And it was all I could do not to beat my child when we got to the car.
I have had a child screaming in a cart before. She wasn't in trouble, she was a baby and had a poop diaper on and I had a cart of groceries and was in the check out lane. But, I digress.

It just seems like parents can't win.

NK, you know I (kinda) like you, so when I said high horse I meant, it is nice to see you come down here and get yourself a drink of water! I am sticking to it is OK to give a spanking!

I know Start. Hey whatever works for you and your family. :)

The courts would not give me custody because I work and she didn't. Im the bread winner and she's a good mother so I didn't press the issue. I can only get vistiation every other weekend because I am the non custodial.

Time is NOT relevant, some can do more with little amounts of time. The judge can only be the children when they are older. So far I think I'm doing pretty good. We really do love one another and laugh more often than not.

I still don't see where spanking should be illegal. What's next, we can't yell at our kids either?

My sister has 4 girls. Her 5 year old come at her with a knife once. She got a butt whippin. Now she is maintained on Seraquel anti phycotic med. At the time I don't think she would have responded to a timeout. She was out of control. None of the others sisters have ever acted this way.

Not good practice to spank any child in public, its humiliating. Plus you really can get your kids taking off you.

The question was should it be illegal or not?

Im not saying that whipping a kid makes you a better parent. The amount of time spent is just as irrelavant. It's a parents choice to determine what is appropriate.

Some parents do not have a high tollerance no patience to use other means of correction. Some are just plain ignorant. If you got to go to jail every time you spank a child is ludicris. Can you picture Johnny no brains trying to keep his kids from beating on one another by his idea of non vilolent good parenting tactics. Hed probably offer them a beer or something. Lol



I like the one comment about 'maybe the government should step in and limit who can have kids and who cant.' Maybe we should have to take an aptitude test or something. And if you score high you obtain swatting privilages... lol


I do feel that if a child is brought up in a good home with good parents they will have more of a chance to become good parents for their kids.


My sons stepdad has whipped my son and it bothered me deeply. It was a tough situation because he was given permission by my ex-wife. I asked that it not be done again. So far so good.

Do you think that spanking a child should be illegal?

I am totally against spanking a child. In 22 years of parenting, with three children, I have never had to spank even once, and never would. That being said, I don't believe it should be illegal, mostly because I don't believe it's a law that could be enforced properly.


It may not be illegal but if some one reports it to Child protective services they most often do treat it like it is illegal and then you are put through hell over it. I know many people who are afraid to discipline their kids other than reward system because of CPS.

Depends on the state where you live, I think. In our state, the only thing that is illegal is if you leave marks that remain for more than... I can't remember if it's fifteen or thirty minutes. And discipline means to TEACH, so there are a multitude of ways to discipline your children that don't include hitting or bribing them.


So based on the bible, u agree with the phrase "Spare the rod and spoil the child"?

The shepherd's rod is used to lead the sheep, to show them the right way to go. It is NOT used to hit them. So, in the proper context, I DO agree with that phrase.


So, when your child runs across the street and/or does something dangerous like that...you are gonna give him/her a time out??:rolleyes:

No, I never used time out as a discipline tool with my children. They were never given the CHANCE to run into the street. Until they were old enough to think clearly and realize the consequences of their actions, keeping them safe from harm was my responsibility, so I kept them out of harm's way. I wouldn't have ever thought to hit them for slacking in my duty to them, which is the only thing that would have resulted in them having the opportunity to run into the street.


Yes, I know where the non spankers are comming from, a sad state of liberal education and not enough spanking when they were a child most likely. Of course it is often there children I see destroying everything in sight as the parent ignores them and then gets upset when a stanger yells at them to behave.

I was spanked as a child. Know what it taught me? It taught me anger, and it taught me to be more sneaky and creative. My children, who are now 22, 18 and 15, were taught proper ways to behave, and were never allowed to get by with misbehaving, in public or in private.

What the hell kind of priest are you?? I can tell you , you have turned me off priests, AND RELIGION

Tch

What the hell kinda priest are you???, i can tell you , you have turned me off priests, AND RELIGION
tchAnd you haven't even seen the homophobia yet. :D

If the government can tell me how to raise my kids, then they can feed , cloth, and house them too!

Love your children. Love someone else's if you can. Don't hurt them, just love them best you can. If you see abuse report it. That is what us adults are here for. Protecting them, they can't protect themselves, so moms, dads, granparents, brothers, sisters, and friends, stand up and help, don't just sit back and watch! I think that is what really needs to be said, cause I can bet one out of ten (maybe less) of you have been involved in some sort of abuse that could have been prevented if someone would have stood up and taken action!

Love your children. Love someone elses if you can. Dont hurt them, just love em best you can. If you see abuse report it. That is what us adults are here for. Protecting them, they can't protect themselves, so moms, dads, granparents, brothers, sisters, and friends, stand up and help, don't just sit back and watch!! I think that is what really needs to be said, cause I can bet one outta ten (maybe less) of you have been involved in some sort of abuse that could have been prevented if someone would have stood up and taken action!


Start--while I agree that ABUSE should be reported---swatting a kid on his butt isn't abuse.

Abuse is backhanding the kid across the room.

A bit of a difference, hmmm?

Really--the biggest difference between a spanking and abuse is that a spanking is done to correct a child. Abuse is to vent your own anger.

Sadly, most states have laws that as long as you don't leave bruises while beating your child, it's not abuse. Also, if the bruises you leave behind are not totally conclusive, they will not be acknowleged. My husband ex-wife, and her new husband, regularly beat the living tar out of our youngest son, who as ADHD and ADD. We even had them in court for that... but the judge said, no no... send them back to these people, and tell them not to leave bruises.
So, spanking... ONLY for a small child, for safety violations (such as running out on to the road etc) never more then 3 light blows, on the behind only, and only with your bare hands. Usually that will get the point of "Hey, if I do that again, it's really going to hurt" across.

There is no need to spank a child. A bully. Picture yourself in prison and a guy bigger than you starts to take advantage of you. If the man can build nuclear powered aircraft carriers then there is another way to treat a child

I would woop your fu#$$# . How would you like me hitting on you? I bet you wouldn't hit me but you would hit a kid though? PUSS@

There is no need to hit a defenseless kid. If a child acts out regularly its because of the parents. Society created rules and laws and a conduct code that children are to be taught. That is not how man was born. They are being what humans were originally born to be. One must mold and condition them into "society's" standards and hitting them is NOT how you enforce that lifestyle. Its not their faults that we have to train them into people of government. Take ME behind the barn... My son is four. He has been all over the place like a monkey. Untamed gorilla. I have never hit him. Once I went to spank him. I thought to myself what if some big guy came swinging at me and being his father doesn't give me the right. You are portraying acts of violence on a child at that. FR you are a creep. You and people like you ever lay a hand on my boy you'll be in jail sick twisted..

Its still displaying acts of violence. Tell a child constantly not to hit then some bigger person hits him what cr@p

Sorry for the long post, but I can only relate my feelings about this by using our family as an example.

When my children were very young, only toddlers, my wife and I were very consistent about saying "No" when one of our children was about to do something they shouldn't. If they persisted, a spat on the hand was given. At such a young age, you cannot reason with a child. You cannot explain to them that if they touch the electrical outlet, they will be shocked and expect them to understand that. You cannot explain to them that if they climb on a certain piece of furniture it could topple and they could be injured. At that age, they only understand things on a stimulus/response level. They quickly learned that when mom or dad said no, if they didn't change their behavior an unpleasant response was coming. Even at such a young age, because we started early and were consistent, we rarely had to spank. And by rarely, I mean almost never.

As they grew and began to learn to speak, less emphasis was placed on spanking (although it was used occasionally) because now we could talk to them and try to explain why we didn't want them to do something. Now we could tell them the electrical outlet would hurt them. Although they still didn't understand the physics of electricity, they got the general idea we were trying to convey. Over time, they learned that when Mom and Dad told them not to do something it wasn't because we were mean but because we were trying to spare them some type of injury or pain far greater than a spanking. This engendered trust, and respect. From that point on, there was just no need for spanking. Our kids were unbelievably well loved and they knew it. Avoiding punishment was no longer the goal... doing right for the sake of doing right was much more central to their lives.

The kids are both old enough (10 and 14) now that I don't think physical punishment has any place. I can't imagine spanking either of them being productive, at this point it would amount to bullying. On the rare occasion that one of them needs discipline we withhold privileges. My oldest is sans cell-phone right now for letting his grades slide a bit. 24 hours after taking it away and reading him the riot act about how important education is, etc. he basically told me the next day that he deserved it and that he hadn't been applying himself. He realized the choice he made, and the consequences of that choice. Contrast that with so many kids nowadays who have no concept of consequences or personal responsibility.

So, yes, I do believe spanking when used properly is OK. Honestly, I think people who don't discipline their children at an early age are more guilty of abuse. You didn't see the rampant behavioral problems we have today back when parents cared enough... that's right cared enough to discipline their kids. Will you have kids that are spanked who grow up to be hell raisers? Of course. Will you have kids who were never spanked and turn out to be fine, upstanding, wonderful people? Again, of course you will. But when I look at the whole of our society, I can't help but notice so many of our troubled people didn't have love, structure, and/or discipline in their lives as children.

If you don't want to spank, don't spank. But try to recognize that there is a difference in spanking a child and willfully abusing a child. There is a huge difference between popping a child on the rear and leaving a child emotionally scarred for life. Try to recognize that you probably don't have all the parenting answers yourself, and leave some room for others to raise their own children the way they see fit.

Greatly put. I agree.

What I'd like to know from the people so absolutely against spanking is this:

How big a step is it from telling someone what discipline they can and can not use on their child to telling people who can and can not have a child?

I, personally, think that "time-out" is the biggest chamberpot there is. I've never yet seen a kid it works on, and frankly, those kids are the ones that grow up thinking they're entitled to whatever.

So--since I think that time out "ruins" children for productive society, should I then be able to go to the government and say "OMG! Parents are ruining their kids with this form of punishment! All it's teaching them is that if they do something wrong, they'll be JAILED for it, and put someplace they don't want to be for 10 minutes! How is that teaching them right from wrong? It should be outlawed!"?

I just don't think that a spanking is abuse. I'm sorry, but I just can't see it that way. I think it's a greater abuse of a child to spoil them, and let them always have their way, and to relent on punishment because you feel bad about it. I knew a girl that would get grounded for 2 weeks when she did something wrong, but she was never ACTUALLY grounded for longer than 2 days. Her mom would relent EVERY time. A spanking, at least, is a punishment that is over and done with, done at the time of the crime, and teaches consequences to children that can not be reasoned with.

Would I spank a teenager? Absolutely not.

Would I spank a toddler? Absolutely.

Are you picturing a spanking as a couple of quick swats? Or are you picturing me whaling the tar out of my kid with a belt? There's just a BIT of a difference there!

What I'd like to know from the people so absolutely against spanking is this:Hello:

What I'd like to know from those spankers, is if hitting is OK, why is it illegal to hit your kid the day they turn 18? I mean, if hitting is good, why should you stop? What difference does one day make?

excon

I agree

Yelling and spanking a kid-u have some issues pal.

What I'd like to know from the people so absolutely against spanking is this:

How big a step is it from telling someone what discipline they can and can not use on their child to telling people who can and can not have a child?

Calling hitting wrong has nothing to do with telling someone whether they can have children.


I, personally, think that "time-out" is the biggest chamberpot there is. I've never yet seen a kid it works on, and frankly, those kids are the ones that grow up thinking they're entitled to whatever.

Guess what? It's not a choice between spanking or time out. I have never used EITHER as a discipline tool in over 22 years.


Are you picturing a spanking as a couple of quick swats? Or are you picturing me whaling the tar out of my kid with a belt? There's just a BIT of a difference there!

Hitting is hitting... there are levels of it, sure, but it's still hitting.

Hello:

What I'd like to know from those spankers, is if hitting is ok, why is it illegal to hit your kid the day they turn 18? I mean, if hitting is good, why should you stop? What difference does one day make?

excon

I think this is a great question, but you're directing it to the wrong people. Most of the people I've spoken with who use or support spanking only use it for a short time... well before the age of 18. Like a lot of our laws that are age-based, this one is flawed.

Hitting isn't OK... you have heard MANY times throughout this conversation that hitting and spanking are two completely different things in two completely different contexts. Using the example someone else mentioned, would you equate time-out with imprisonment? Of course not. They are two completely separate things. I respect others' viewpoint and choice not to use it, and they should respect mine.

Hello:

What I'd like to know from those spankers, is if hitting is ok, why is it illegal to hit your kid the day they turn 18? I mean, if hitting is good, why should you stop? What difference does one day make?

excon
Since I recently gave you a greenie... the system would not allow it again. But I thought this brilliant answer was worth reposting.:D

Hitting isn't ok... you have heard MANY times throughout this conversation that hitting and spanking are two completely different things in two completely different contexts...... Hello l:

I'm just a dumb old exconvict, but I can't see any difference between spanking and hitting. But, that's just me.

excon

One would have to literally beat my toddler for him to feel anything. I assure you the kid feels no pain. What, toddler years are how long? You can't go that long not hitting. From the mintue they are a certain age one must tell them NO everyday of their life. All they are doing is exploring new sensory motor skills. Listen to yourselves I Won't BEAT ANYONE THAT CAN HIT ME BACK BUT I WILL HIT SOMEONE THAT CANT! Just a quick swat. No, you don't swat a human being. You don't ever raise your hand at anyone. If you are always there with your child to redirrect, childproof your home (a toddler is fascinated that it can walk. You walk outside. The Child darts off and lets loose. The child makes it to the street and by now you must be pretty angry because the child could have ran into the street so you angrily stoop down and the swat the kid) that's B.S. That was the parents fault. You know the toddler is a baby but can walk. They have been in this world for two years. They got excited because they got to go outside and the minute they have a joyful moment because of the parents mistake the toddler pays for it. My child will never be in the road. There are plastic electrical outlit covers. If my toddler is acting out its because he is tired, he is not gettting attention or was influenced by bigger kids obviously ones that were spanked. Never hit a kid in front of people who said that? My god if you can't do it in front of people then it is probably WRONG. Hitting is a violent aggressive act. If the kid really makes you mad where you have to hit him then you have issues not the child and need professional help or need your AS@ kicked by someone bigger than you.

So... when my toddler reaches for the hot stove for the 15th time in 2 minutes, after I've gently pulled him away 15 times, it's bad to show him that the hot stove hurts by slapping his hand rather than letting him touch it?

Seriously--the whole "never hit" thing is ridiculous. Like I said in a much earlier post--I wasn't spanked often as a child. I was spanked probably 5 times. And I STILL remember each of those lessons.

As far as the people screaming that they'll call 911 for someoen spanking their kid in a store--great! Since I already do that when I hear a kid crying for more than 5 minutes in a store because their parents won't take them and just LEAVE so that I can shop in peace. Ignoring a child is a form of abuse too, isn't it? I mean, if you can't make them stop crying instantly, isn't that abusing them?

As to the person that told me that it wasn't a choice between a spanking and time out: It was an example. I think timeout it crap, and other people think that spanking is crap. I think time-out teaches kids nothing, they think spanking teaches kids nothing.

As far as "Calling hitting wrong has nothing to do with telling someone whether or not they can have children. ": actually, yes, it does. You want to tell people what they can and can not do when raising kids. I think incarcerating children is wrong, and I bet I could convince others to join me in that thinking. Then we get together, and go to the lawmakers, and get "time-outs" made illegal along with spanking. Someone else, then, feels that yelling at your kids, for whatever reason, is wrong. Kids don't respond to yelling as well as they respond to quiet conversation, and yelling is a form of abuse--so pretty soon, someone will decide that no one should be able to yell at their kids. And what about sending kids to bed without their supper? OMG--that's denying them FOOD! That's ABUSE! And grounding--you're DESTROYING your kid's self esteem by not letting them go to the prom! People shouldn't be able to take away someone else's most precious things, that's stealing! And prom is one of the most precious things there is to a high school girl! If stealing is WRONG, then stealing opportunities is wrong too--and we'd better outlaw that. Same sorts of arguments for washing a kid's mouth out with soap.

About the only form of punishment I can think of here that would NOT be abuse is writing a letter of apology EVERY time the kid does something wrong. But--then the parents had better be willing to do that same thing every time they hurt their child's feelings.

It comes down to the fact that a spanking never hurt a child. For me, the spanking was always more about the loss of dignity than it was about the pain in my rear end. Sure, there are other ways for a kid to lose his dignity--but my point is that if you can tell one set of parents that their way of raising their kid is wrong, then you can tell ALL parents that their way of raising their kid is wrong. Abuse is different than discipline, and abuse SHOULD be stopped--but telling someone how to discipline their own child is a gross invasion of privacy. And--once they can tell everyone HOW to raise their kids--it's not that big of a jump to WHO can raise kids.

Spanking never hurt a child? Not a fact... I'll give you that spanking never hurt YOU, since you have made that assertion here. But you can't say for a fact that it has never hurt any child... I know children who have been emotionally scarred by it... and yes, I'm talking about "just" as spanking, as opposed to a beating.

And yes, IMO, it IS bad to hit a child to teach him that something is off limits to him. But that's just my parenting philosophy as opposed to yours. I see that sort of tactic as scaring them into doing things or not doing them, which is yet another reason I didn't use it.

And while the whole "never hit" thing may be ridiculous to you, it has worked for our family for 22 years, and my children intend to carry it on into the next generation as well, where I hope it will also work for them.

That is a stage and before you know it they have outgrown it without being hit.

I also agree completely.

Yes pure bull, a spanking ( not a beating) never hurts a child, in fact it is often a very good thing, since it is a very good method of controlling behavior for the child's protection. I am sure there are quack doctors that will come up with anything that can harm a child. Same ones that want two mommies or two daddies as a good family I would assume.

But in fact I would go as far as I did five or six pages ago, and say that it is more abuse to the child by not spanking them, since there is no proper control and proper behavior modification to keep many children from destructive behavior.

I am sure that anything can be blamed by a older teen or adult as an excuse for their poor choices, but if they try and say that a parent who loved them enough to try to make them do right is the issue, it is merely a sad excuse that a liberal mind eats up.

The kids know no better. My son was in a room with three boys all older than he. I was watching the interaction around the corner along with one of the boys mother, the bigger kid bites my son 5 yr age difference. My son bites the kid back. The kid starts screaming runs around the corner and said my son bit him. I don't know I use to be a boxer. I was search and rescue in the Navy. I can assure you that a two yr old is by no means going to cause me to raise my hand. If that was done back in the old times then maybe we need to take a step back and reevalute because the last time I looked the streets out there are not too pretty. One of my best friends dad was the principal of a jr high. The best parents one could imagine. My friend was never hit. He played and mastered all the sports made good grades. He would never lay a hand on someone. Now today, 18 yrs later that kid who would never hit someone is now and has been a Navy seal with a medal of honor. Hitting a two yr old does not produce a tough man. When my sons eyes first opened he didn't see his mother nor his dad he saw a football. I played football with him everyday since. Show me a five yr old that can stick with him or throw better than him ill give you a hundred bucks. My son also had baby boxing gloves. If he gets mad he will put on the gloves and ill let him punch me in the face till he laughs. He can do a combo, throw a perfect straight spiral. He almost back flip. Its called being prepared for a child and quality time. To have to spank a child shows that the parent is being neglectful in their jobs of beinga parent. Don't punish the kid because of your mess up.

Acts of violence towards a child should be banned. Anyone ever anywhere gets hit they press charges and theother goes to jail. Except kids can't talk yet.. right

Do you think that spanking a child should be illegal?
YES Spanking a child should be illegal as no one has the right to lay heads on anyone.Their are people who have worked to prevent children being hit.And spanking should be no different as there is people who don't know their own strength and will go to far.Think about whem you were a kid would have like it if your mother or father spanked you did you like it I@m betting no you didn't so how do you think your child likes SPANKING SHOULD BE AGAINST THE LAW NO EXCEPTIONS.[

same ones that want two mommies or two daddies as a good family I would assume.Homophobia alert.

All I know is that the government controls too much as it is.

If they add "how to parent" to what they control, how is that a good thing?

I would frankly RATHER have people being told who can and can not raise children rather than having someone tell them HOW to raise children. How is it really any better for a law to direct discipline than a law forbidding certain people from procreating in the first place?

Let's do it that way! Let's have people take a test, and if they pass, they can be parents! Have the test be actual situations that a parent is faced, with essay answers about how they'd respond to a situation, with a government agency and a panel of parents and law enforcement reading and rating the essays. If you have a child without passing the test, it is automatically taken away and given to parents who HAVE passed the test, but are unable to conceive.

Of course, one of the requirements, then, is that you HAVE to be married/civil partners in order to have kids, and divorce (with exceptions in the case of abuse) when you have kids is prohibited. Think of how scarring that is to the kids!

I mean--if you're starting with spankings telling people how to have a family, why not go all the way and decide who CAN have a family! Let's tell people who can and can't get married too!

Yes, I realize that hitting is bad---but making it illegal takes that form of punishment away from the parents of kids it actually works on. It's like making a certain food illegal because SOME people are allergic to it, or candles illegal because SOME people burn down their houses by having one. These are dangerous things! We shouldn't allow people to have dangerous things in their house! Someone might get hurt, or die, or be scarred for life from them! We should protect EVERYONE because it's not right that some people get hurt from everyday things that have been around for centuries! Let's make EVERYTHING that MIGHT hurt someone for life illegal! No more knives! No more cell phones (think of all the brain tumors!)! No more cars! No more alcohol!

Right now, those that do not believe in spanking and those that do, have a CHOICE in how to raise their own kids. Making it illegal takes away that choice--and if spanking is illegal, just about every other form of child discipline should be as well. I was more scarred by being grounded than I EVER was from a spanking. My sister says the punishment that she thought was the most unfair, and the most damaging to her (so that she resents it all these years later) was to have her allowance taken away as a punishment, or her things--she didn't feel the punishment fit her crime, and she was just being punished with that because my parents knew it hurt her--that they went out of there way to hurt her with it.

I guess it just comes down to the fact that I don't like the idea of the government telling me how to raise my kids.

For sure, if you need the government to tell you how to raise your kids, then you don't need to be a parent.

Hello again:

Just to make sure we're talking about the same stuff, here. Passing a law telling you that you can't hit your kids is unwarranted government intrusion into your private life. But, a similar law telling you can't hit adults, isn't.

Why is that? If you want to argue that children are chattel (owned by their parents), then we can have that discussion. But, as long as they're not, in my view, they have the same right not to be hit that adults do.

excon

No. The government is not feeding my kids so they should butt out.

Child abuse on the other hand is different and folks that beat their children because they can't communicate should be charged with assault.

Actually it's the government as to why you discipline your kids in the first place. They created the laws and rules that governs the land. So as a parent you are to enforce these laws so you won't be in trouble as a parent. Its your on the line. First you will be punished then the state interveens and will take custody. So as a parent your back is up against the wall as to how to enforce these rules. So to save face and embarrassment on your behalf you reach down and woop the child. Circumstances such as running into a street or getting electricuted that is parental neglect. If you were watching your child and are paying attention the child would not have run into the street or stuck his finger in the socket. When you were in school you had to learn things repetitivly. You didn't automatically know the answer. Through time you learned. Same with a child if you tell the toddler to not go into the street but they continue on because they don't know its through time that they learn about cars and outside. So what everyone is saying is if we as adults are studying for a test and we miss the answer although we said in our brain a hundred times each mess up we should hit but on the only. Wait, we are adults so we should be hit in the face only. If you don't know how to handle your humility on the governments laws or you don't know or have the means to wholeheartadly have a child then you have no business creating one. Seems to me like people don't hit adults because an adult will swing back at you maybe even kill you so they made it a law. You go your entire life not hitting an adult because most of you are scared of the outcome. Go ahead keep a violent act fresh in a child's mind it will make the world a better place. Your hummility will be spared and your blood child will fear you. Just take a look outside that's probably because most of the people on this sight agree with spanking. If you are all real men and not "sissys" try to never put your hand on a child. That to me would be your true test of a man. Better yet come hit me. And the law arrests people and puts them in jail they don't go around hitting someone. Time out and being grounded are more along the lines of institutionalized not hitting.

Passing a law saying you can not DISCIPLINE your kids the way you choose, so long as it is not abuse, is unwarranted government intrusion.

Are you telling me that kids old enough to talk aren't already reporting their parents to CPS for abuse when it was only discipline, to get back at their parents?

You can take ANY punishment too far. Imprisoning an adult against their will is illegal too--so shouldn't time-out be illegal as well then? Or grounding? Taking away an adult's things is called "theft"--why should it be allowed for children, then? Yelling at an adult can get you charged with harrassment--shouldn't THAT be illegal to do to your kids too, then?

If children have the same rights as adults, since they are not chattel---then NO punishment should be legal. After all--doing to an adult ANY of the disciplinary actions you'd do to a child is illegal.

If I saw someone hit their kid I would embarrass you in front of your own child but then again according to one, you won't hit them in public only behind closed doors.

If you are all real men and not "sissys" try to never put your hand on a child. That to me would be your true test of a man. Better yet come hit me. And the law arrests people and puts them in jail they don't go around hitting someone. Time out and being grounded are more along the lines of institutionalized not hitting.

You can argue all you want, but the proof is in the doing, not the talking, and since I have raised 5 kids under my roof, and they are well balanced, and productive citizens, I think I qualify to tell any one here that my methods HAVE worked. And yes after a fair warning, a smack on the hands or bottom, is not abuse, nor is it cruel. Until you have the proof to back up what your saying, leave the raising of children to us REAL MEN! If you need advice on how to raise kids, would you rather trust me, or your government?? Any questions?

If i saw someone hit their kid i would embarass you in front of your own child but then again according to one, you wont hit them in public only behind closed doors.

Your kidding right? Either that or you don't have a clue.

It's the government why you discipline in the first place. If it was up to me I would let my child run around naked in the forrest with animals and pee on trees. That's what nature intentended. No toddler wants to wear clothes. First of all its stripping away their innocense but the law says everyone has to wear closthes no peeing in public. From the minute they are born every single word out of our mouthes are NO. Shouldn't that be enough punishment must we beat them too? Whipping boy done wrong deprived of all his youth. They are being what nature intended but we have to tell them NO. You are in denial if you don't think the government s already in charge. With all the BS in this world they will have to face as a human being why should their own parents inflict NO and then pain plus pain from the world because they broke away from you and ran into the street? Parents love and hopefully instill values not teach violence. You are embarrassed because your child broke a "rule" your blood rises and your hand swings down. That is clearly not being a good parent and just teaching discipline. The is an emotional upheaval on the parents part correlated with a violent gesture. Whether you hit hard or soft it still represents a angry act. You hit your kids those who do and ill continue to teach my child the use of boxing gloves heavy bags martial arts sports good eating from the moment his eyes opened that's what he knows. He will clean his own mess in the kitchen pick his toys up and is already potty trained. He will lay a combo on you so fast at two. I never once hit him. I stayed on it. So when your child mimicks you as his parent and goes to hit my child and my child beats him down in self defense then you can come to my house and we can handle it as adults. I won't call the law if you hit me I promise.

Well maybe I won't do anything about it that's their child but my child will be prepared for kids that are hit and decided to bring that back into the classroom.

Oh, I'm so scared of you, honey.

I hope your child doesn't emulate your grammar and punctuation, too.

I thought I made clear earlier that the difference between discipline and abuse is that discipline is done with a cool head, for the sake of the child, not with a temper for the sake of your own pride.

Those parents that won't discipline their kids? THEY are the ones I embarrass in public. I HATE going someplace public and listening to someone's kid scream because the parent can't discipline them in public for fear of someone like you calling CPS, regardless what the punishment actually is.

I'll teach my kids that feelings are valid, but that *I* am the adult--not them.

I never feared my parents. I was TALKED to before every spanking I got, explaining exactly why I was getting it, and told that the same thing would happen if I repeated the actions that got me the spanking in the first place. Guess what? I didn't repeat those actions!

I'm not going to hit you because your kid hits mine---I'll slap an assault charge against your kid. I never got in schoolyard fights, and the only kids I ever hit were my own brother and sister--which I think is pretty much standard for most people; hitting and shouting at your siblings happens, and I would call anyone who says they never fought with their siblings either an only child or a liar.

You said that you would discipline your child your way, and I could discipline my child my way--great! That is EXACTLY what I said to begin with! That's WHY spanking should not be illegal to begin with!

I said my child will be prepared in case one of your kids who you hit decides to to bring that behavior to the school yard. Sorry my life doesn't revolve on a computer. I have always been in the field working hard for my money. I make as much money as some people who have been on computers since they were invented.
My kid loves public perfect manners. Explain that? If everyone wants to call ocs then obviously there are ways around hitting a child. My god do these kids really make you people this strung out that you have to hit them? Let me take you to some places where there really is a need for violent discipline then see if a kid really conjures up a feeling to where you have to hit them. When a toddler becomes a toddler they are playing aorund with your authority because they love you and feel safe around you. They don't do that with other people you drop them off with. So you hit them. Great. Good for you. Slap the joy clean out their mouth. You should be proud.

Its all you idiots on here. The thought of hitting a child bugs the cr@p out of me when I look at my son. Your kids are productive citizens in YOUR eyes I suppose. You relax pal before my boot goes up your you know what... When are you people going to take a stand and stop promoting the violence in this world? It starts at home with your offspring a@@wipe. Now your kids are going to spank there kids and so on. And those kids are going to show up at school and hit then those kids are going to hit and someone is going to get hurt. You can't find another way to discipline without hitting smane on you people. You chill out buddy. Don't tell me to chill out pal. This is america jack 2008. Ill voice my opinion when I want where I want. Id like to put on some boxing gloves with you boy and go round for round.

Someone needs a time out. Or a spanking!!

Just curious as to why those against spanking equate a tap on the hands to child abuse, when most of us who do spank, think restraint, is the key to corporal punishment. Also how do you let a child know that he shouldn't touch a electrical socket, when they are not able to understand language yet? Somebody just tell me the methods you would use.

how do you let a child know that he shouldn't touch a electrical socket, when they are not able to understand language yet? Somebody just tell me the methods you would use.Hello tal:

I just babyproof my home and then it's not an issue. Then baby can just explore away without fear of getting hurt.

I don't mean to be flippant. Certainly, you can't babyproof the world. But, if you're a PRO-active parent, which is what babyproofing is, I believe you can avoid being RE-active, which is what spanking is.

excon

Good points EX, yeah I did the same, had one main room, and kept doors closed, especially the bathroom. But I did have to tap hands when we were watching TV, as my son was fascinated over changing channels. But he learned about No and Stop though, and after that, I never had to touch him again, Hmm and didn't have to move the furniture around either. That's my point though, as training them young to obey, is essential, I never had to tap the girls at all, as they just seemed to understand for some reason. I can't stand seeing people go overboard though, but I do think there are a lot of parents with poor parenting skills though. What about after a fair warning, and they still want to pull the lamp off the table by the cord?

But in fact I would go as far as I did five or six pages ago, and say that it is more abuse to the child by not spanking them, since there is no proper control and proper behavior modification to keep many children from destructive behavior

What makes you think that, just because I have never HIT my children, I have never disciplined them? To discipline means to TEACH... my children have been taught proper ways to behave, to treat other people and property, to speak, etc. from the time they were able to get out of my arms and move around. I never had to lay a hand on any of them to accomplish that feat, though.

Just curious as to why those against spanking equate a tap on the hands to child abuse, when most of us who do spank, think restraint, is the key to corporal punishment. Also how do you let a child know that he shouldn't touch a electrical socket, when they are not able to understand language yet? Somebody just tell me the methods you would use.

Hitting is hitting, no matter what "level" of hitting you use, or how you dress it up with other words like tap or pop or swat. I put plugs into my electrical outlets, and told my children "NO" in a stern voice if they went near them. They were usually much more interested in spending time with Mom and Dad than sticking their fingers in an electrical socket.

Hitting is hitting, no matter what "level" of hitting you use, or how you dress it up with other words like tap or pop or swat. I put plugs into my electrical outlets, and told my children "NO" in a stern voice if they went near them. They were usually much more interested in spending time with Mom and Dad than sticking their fingers in an electrical socket.

Your lucky, my son would rather get into things, than sit in moms lap. He never stopped until bedtime, so what about the lamp thing, and if they were insistent on playing with it?

Your lucky, my son would rather get into things, than sit in moms lap. He never stopped until bedtime, so what about the lamp thing, and if they were insistent on playing with it??


What's to explain? Just keep removing them from next to it, say "NO" sternly, and interest them in something else. That's TEACHING and CONSISTENCY.

Oh, and I never said anything about sitting in Mom's lap... I was talkiing about actually playing with the child... with their toys, or reading books, or singing.

You sound like a good mom, patient and attentive, which I think are keys to raising kids. Do you think that technique works for ALL kids though?

Not necessarily... but with all the techniques that are out there, I don't think that any parent should ever have to resort to hitting their child when trying to teach them something.

That was what I was really asking, about those other techniques, for those hard to teach children. As I said before, my son was one of those stubborn repeat offenders, he just couldn't leave those buttons on the TV alone, but was scared to touch them after a stern No and yeah the old hand tap, so I finally had to get him his own, that didn't last long as he still wanted to play with mine. (no we didn't have a remote, and that's a whole nuther story)

The bottom line is I spend tons of quality time with my child. We have the star sticker thing set up. I get down on his level and play cars. I teach him. Read books etc. That's all he wants. Its been like that since he was born. If he was a repeat offender, you're letting people know that you were not prepared for a child and you were side tracked quite a bit. Sitting in mommies lap doesn't cover it. My child wears me down with what he can come up with to play and spend time and our time together is very consistent from the moment he was born. I am a single father. All we have is each other. I don't take a minute for granted with him. The thought of hitting my child is unconceivable. It does not have to be done. Although he will clean his own mess ill bake a cake and let him devour it on weekends when the star stickers accumulate. At first he would not eat unless it was junk food(mother) but after a day and a half of not eating trust me he eats every meal. The minute he needs something I am on it. The minute he spits something out I'm on him. He knows daddy is right there from day one.

i said my child will be prepared in case one of your kids who yall hit decides to to bring that behavior to the school yard. Sorry my life doesnt revolve on a computer. I have always been in the feild working hard for my money. I make as much money as some people who have been on computers since they were invented.
My kid loves public perfect manners. Explain that? If everyone wants to call ocs then obviously there are ways around hitting a child. My god do these kids really make you people this strung out that you have to hit them? Let me take you to some places where there really is a need for violent discipline then see if a kid really conjures up a feeling to where you have to hit them. When a toddler becomes a toddler they are playing aorund with your authority because they love you and feel safe around you. They dont do that with other people you drop them off with. So you hit them. Great. Good for you. Slap the joy clean out their mouth. You should be proud.


So, because your child hasn't been spanked and mine has - you think your kid is going to get bullied by my kid? Your wrong. My child has been spanked (last resort option) - she is pretty passive with other kids. The kids that have hit her and bullied her in the school yard are those that were probably told "no" a hundred times and learned they could get away with anything when they should have got their butt smacked to get the picture.

My child, the one who has gotten spanked would not hit anyone. She has been the victim of bullies over and over. If I am teaching all these horrible acts of violence - then why isn't she the bully? Why is it those kids that have their parents wrapped around their fingers and never get PUNISHED for what they do?

I think we miss the point of separating what proper for us to do as parents, from the whole thing about, what we have done. And my question to Jason is, does his technique work for ALL kids? And I have been very specific as to the examples I have given.

The bottom line is i spend tons of quality time with my child. We have the star sticker thing set up. I get down on his level and play cars. i teach him. read books etc. Thats all he wants. Its been like that since he was born. If he was a repeat offender, youre letting people know that you were not prepared for a child and you were side tracked quite a bit. Sitting in mommies lap doesnt cover it. My child wears me down with what he can come up with to play and spend time and our time together is very consistant from the moment he was born. I am a single father. All we have is each other. I dont take a minute for granted with him. The thought of hitting my child is unconceivable. It does not have to be done. Although he will clean his own mess ill bake a cake and let him devour it on weekends when the star stickers accumulate. At first he would not eat unless it was junk food(mother) but after a day and a half of not eating trust me he eats every meal. The minute he needs something i am on it. The minute he spits something out im on him. He knows daddy is right there from day one.


So... starving your kid for a day and a half isn't abuse, but a swat on the a$$ is.

Double standard, in my opinion.

Make no mistake I am against child abuse, that not what we are talking about. But the techniques used by those who do not spank. The repoire and bond you have with your own kids is unique, and special as we make it, so I think I deserve to have the questions I asked answered. And as I have said before the proof is in the puddin, and again all due respect, you won't know if your right or wrong, until the child grows up, and you can see what type of human he/she is. If yours responds well now to what your doing great, but what if they don't? What are the technique you would use in that case?

The bottom line is i spend tons of quality time with my child. We have the star sticker thing set up. I get down on his level and play cars. i teach him. read books etc. Thats all he wants. Its been like that since he was born. If he was a repeat offender, youre letting people know that you were not prepared for a child and you were side tracked quite a bit. Sitting in mommies lap doesnt cover it. My child wears me down with what he can come up with to play and spend time and our time together is very consistant from the moment he was born. I am a single father. All we have is each other. I dont take a minute for granted with him. The thought of hitting my child is unconceivable. It does not have to be done. Although he will clean his own mess ill bake a cake and let him devour it on weekends when the star stickers accumulate. At first he would not eat unless it was junk food(mother) but after a day and a half of not eating trust me he eats every meal. The minute he needs something i am on it. The minute he spits something out im on him. He knows daddy is right there from day one.


Do what works for you. I hope that your son doesn't do anything he is not supposed to more than once. Because according to you, that would make you an unprepared parent. One that just wasn't ready to be a dad, right? You never know what is going to get thrown your way or what phase your child is entering.
You can give all the shiny stars you want - one day they won't interest him and you will have to find something new. It is a fact of life. Not bad parenting.

The fact that spanking is in my discipline plan does NOT mean that I am any less there for my child.

Again, do as you wish and what works for you. But don't look down on me or discount my parenting skills because they don't match with yours. And don't make assumptions about all kids who are spanked vs. all kids who aren't.
What works for you isn't going to work for all. Spanking works for us when we need to use it.

I don't know, if man can build nuclear powered friggin aircraft carriers or fly to the darn moon then there should be other ways to discipline besides hitting. His doctor along with a second opinion doctor told me to do that about is eating. I was hesitent at first but since it been done food is wasted no more and he will eat green beans as quick as cake. You people are picking a topic then scattering around with it. Someone said the kids that don't receive discipline vs. the kids who are spanked are the bullies. Who said anything about not disciplining? I send him to his room all day long. I put him in time amount as much as you people spank. All I'm saying is it's a temporary stage that they are going through as toddlers which will be outgrown and they will remember nothing of this time if they test your authority its because they feel safe around you. Maybe you people need to go to yoga or something to find some patience and tolerance. Just because you hit them and they don't do it again -they don't do it because you taught them they stop because they are scared of your rage. Maybe I'm being nieve because this is my first child and his mother is gone and don't really have a clue what I'm up against "according to talan" but I saw my son bullied by bigger kids and he picked up the biting and hitting from them and they were hit by their parents. On the other side of town my son was playing with antoher kid the kid hit, my son hit back more and harder a few weeks later. The kid that started it ran to his father said my son hit him. The guy caught himself telling my son not to hit and I said your son hit first my son defended himself although your son is older he started crying and ran to you.
As a father, what was I supposed to do? Reach down and spank him tell him no because he was bullied bit and hit by kids whose parents hit them? Am I supposed to spank my son because he continues to press the buttons on the TV because he is fascinated with our new age technology and wants to learn everything that he sees everyone else do? He wants to touch everything through experimentation knowing soon he will be big enough mature enough to change the channel on his own with a purpose. So why hit? Ill tell you why, because you are so wrapped up in a darn TV show and it made you mad. Its just a TV pal. Maybe just maybe if it was a little higher he or she might not be able to touch it and there goes one less problem.
Yeah, people are different kids are different, then how come all kids are already well mapped out in books, their different developmental stages? Terrible twos, etc

Make no mistake I am against child abuse, that not what we are talking about. But the techniques used by those who do not spank. The repoire and bond you have with your own kids is unique, and special as we make it, so I think I deserve to have the questions I asked answered. And as I have said before the proof is in the puddin, and again all due respect, you wont know if your right or wrong, until the child grows up, and you can see what type of human he/she is. If yours responds well now to what your doing great, but what if they don't? What are the technique you would use in that case??

Well, I've told you what I did in the situation you asked about. If that hadn't worked? I have no idea... because a lot of my creative discipline ideas are spur of the moment, off the top of my head stuff. As for knowing if my discipline methods work... my children are 22, 18 and 15... two are grown and on their own, and one is nearly there... and all three are people I'm proud to know.

So why hit? Ill tell you why, because you are so wrapped up in a darn TV show and it made you mad. Its just a TV pal. Maybe just maybe if it was a little higher he or she might not be able to touch it and there goes one less problem.

Actually it was a floor model console from JCPenney 30 years ago, but the point was that one smack on the hand and a NO, was all it took. From then on he knew NO mean;t don't do it. That tap was not out of anger, but to let him know what I expected, and now he has his own boys (4) and is a great dad, who has never had to spank his. But during those formative years you make decisions, and do what you have to, creative or not because at 3/4 they know enough where talking is enough, and no he, hardly ever required any punishment, and we are very close today, so the point is as strongly as you feel, you make a lot of assumptions for someone who is still going through it. I don't believe in hitting out of anger, and as I said if a tap on the hand freaks you out, and makes me a bad person, tough. If you want to equate me with a child abuser, tough. But let me see, if you don't spank, and get good results fine, I'm glad, but I did, and have good results, so who's right? Frankly my main objection is the name calling, and asinine assumptions you try to put on those, who have already done what your trying to do, so see me when your kid graduates, and save the keyboard courage, and threats for someone who cares. I probably have a bunch of kids older and wiser, and tougher than you so if you can't hold a decent discussion without the crap you sling, go stand in the corner, young disrespectful ,whipper snapper. Now that may be construed as CHILD abuse. Also your credibility is nill with me, as you have shown here, an adult converation is not your strong point, and I hope your son teaches you better.

Well, I've told you what I did in the situation you asked about. If that hadn't worked? I have no idea...because a lot of my creative discipline ideas are spur of the moment, off the top of my head stuff. As for knowing if my discipline methods work.....my children are 22, 18 and 15...two are grown and on their own, and one is nearly there....and all three are people I'm proud to know.
I respect your opinion, and your methods, as you have made a good, no excellent case, in an respectful manner, and in no way am I lumping you in the same basket, as the young kid with the smart mouth. Continued success.

I think there are to many variables to blanket say that one technique or another is the way to go. What works on yours maynot work on mine. Those are the very real decisions we make as parents, how to raise and teach, and yes, disipline our own kids. Every house is unique, as we are as adults, so we use what we chose, and do what we must. I don't need a law for that.


Comments on this poststartover22 (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/members/startover22.html) agrees: Perfectly announced! I like this a lot, we are all different, I value that!
jasondbel (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/members/jasondbel.html) : I also agree completely.


Are you the same guy that agreed with me???

Exactly! When its time for a plan of action I'm there with something imagintive and it doesn't resort to hittiing

Well its nice to see that the talanman over hear contridicated himself. He goes from saying a pat on the butt to 4 pages later all he ever did was a pat on the hand. Now YOUR creditability is shot. Trying to sugar coat or to be a nice guy now? My parents never hit. My Navy seal buddy's parents never hit and I've never had to hit my son.
You're right momma to three... When it comes time to discipline then I go with what I feel at the time usually turn it into a laugh or something then move on to something else with always an explanation and a ear full of conversation. Dpends on every circumstance. Not only do I not have to hit but our bond as father and son is getting stronger and it seems to me like although he feels comfortable with me and would like to test the authority a level of respect and comraduree is being established. Spur of the moment. You stay on it. Don't get mad at me talanman because your a@# came home from work and felt like a man so you grabbed the remote.
Contrary to what you are saying, I am just killing my head trying to find a way to separate "a hit" of some sort and an "emotion" of some sort. I am trying to picture a man replacing his emotions for his child with something nonemotional in order to subjectivley strike the other but for a good cause without a moment to spare. Completely contradictory. You contradicated yourself twice big tallyman. That's your new name "big tallyman."

Not subjectively, I meant to say objectively

So, why don't you toddler hitters give us non child hitters an example of when it would be appropriate to strike a toddler "only on the butt and four pages later only on the hand," besides changing the television while you are watching it someone said or breaking free from your hawk eye and running near the street?

Jason--my problem with you stems from your lack of respect for others.

I don't really care HOW people raise their kids, as long as they put their kids first in their lives, and mould them into good people.

My problem with the entire discussion stems from the fact that people who don't spank want to force THEIR parenting techniques on those who DO spank.

I think that parents that use different punishments for different offenses do the best, actually. And kids SHOULD have a fear of their parents. Not a fear of physical hurt, but a fear that they will disappoint their parents, and a fear of punishment, whatever the punishment may be.

My stance is based ENTIRELY upon the fact that making spanking illegal is as bad as deciding who can and can not have kids. Really, in the end, all it will do is take kids away from a whole bunch of bewildered parents who are doing the best they can, put them in the foster care system, and further overload our courts with parents trying to get their kids back.

How in the WORLD does that help a kid?

I've never spanked my daughter, she's learning right now and its part of growing up to make mistakes. To add any sort of violence to her life and call it a "lesson" would reflect a great deal of stupidity and just bad parenting. I could and have thought of a 100 ways of disciplining my daughter and have her recognize the wrong she has done. I would never hit an employee of mine for doing something stupid or rude or wrong or that they should have known better, I would get an assault charge brought against me. I personally would like for it to be illegal to spank children.

So, why dont you toddler hitters give us non child hitters an example of when it would be appropriate to strike a toddler "only on the butt and four pages later only on the hand," besides changing the television while you are watching it someone said or breaking free from your hawk eye and running near the street?


When a toddler is "helping" me cook and reaches for the hot stove for the third time after being told "no! That's HOT!", moved to a chair and told to "help" from there and STILL thinks they have to touch it---I think that warrants a slap on the hand, yes.

When a slightly older child is tormenting a pet by pulling on its ears and tail, and hurting it (thank goodness for patient pets!), and the child has been told not to do it because it hurts the animal, and the animal could bite them. Then the child is warned (the second time) that if you have to tell them again, they will get a spanking, because what they are doing HURTS, and unless they want to feel hurt too, then they should not do it.

I've NEVER spanked a child (or slapped their hand) without at least 2 warnings, one warning which contains the words "If you do that again, I am going to spank you/swat your hand". I always try to reason and explain first. I've also only ever spanked a child when they were doing something that could hurt themselves or someone else. I feel that a swat from me is less than the real hurt of touching a stove, or getting bit by an animal, or falling down the stairs, or whatever. If they're just doing something annoying (like tormenting their siblings by copycatting or something) I find something more appropriate, though generally there isn't a "punishment" there--I just redirect their attention to something more constructive--like helping make dinner, or dusting the furniture, or playing with their OWN things in their room.

I don't automatically jump to a spanking! Far from it! It is, however, an effective punishment when used for the right reasons.

My son (at age 10) was grounded for throwing snowballs at the highway. He wanted to go outside to sled ride with the neighbor kids but I told him he was grounded. He then replied can "Id rather have a whippin"... so he could go outside.

Does that sound like a kid who is emotionaly scarred... lol (mind you he's only been swatted a few times when he was younger)

My son (at age 10) was grounded for throwing snowballs at the highway. He wanted to go outside to sled ride with the neighbor kids but i told him he was grounded. He then replied can "Id rather have a whippin" ....so he could go outside.

Does that sound like a kid who is emotionaly scarred...lol (mind you hes only been swatted a few times when he was younger)

Sounds to me like a child who wants the easy way out rather than actually taking responsibility for his misbehavior.

When I was in grade school I cannot tell you how many times the principal swatted me with a very large wooden paddle. Close to 50 times for sure, maybe more. I hated it. I was always look upon as the bad kid in school during those years, contantly being disruptive and having failing grades.

Im not sure that those swatts were effective however I do remember the humility of having to get them sometimes in front of the class. It probably benifited the others students more by having to watch it.

Since then during high school I went on to have a drug free, crime free life. Also I excelled in art and science and even made it to the Nationl Honor Society.

Now if I thought my son was getting swatted in his school I would raise hell. Its not the schools place to keep my kid in line. That's my job.

My lack of respect stems from the idiots on this sight that when had initially posted my opinion some jerk had to give me a red mark against my name because he thought spanking is very appropriate. So if everyone is titled to their own opinion on how to raise their children how I voiced mine but yet I now have a negative rating? So since I am now labeled for my opinion you people are going to hear me at all costs.
If my child constantly reaches for the hot stove, I pick him up, explain to him how hot it is, move the pot over and guide his hand close to the heat as to not burn him so he can feel with his senses. He now says hot hot every time he is near. No pain no violence just patience, caring.
You people that hit have no good reasons you should hit for those few yrs of your kids life. You are making stuff up to justify your violent attempts to control a child by using violent means.
What you people fail to realize is just because they are from your sperm and egg does not mean they are a possession. They are now human beings with the same rights and everyone else here in america. They need to be taught. They are in this world for the first time. Everything to them is new. They are curious and want to explore so you hit them?
I am talking about hitting toddlers. School age kids do not need to be hit either. If they are acting up doing seriously wrong behaviors put their butts in a juvenile facility for a short period. There is never a need to hit someone unless you all both agree to put on the boxing gloves and go toe to toe.

Here in Lousyana as we call it,if a parent even raises a hand to the child,the child calls the cops and the parents go to jail for abuse... I think the children need to know who the boss is... not the police and the courts,they have bigger fish to fry

As a birthparent, Jason, the LAST thing I think of a child as, is as a possession.

Great--I'm violent and raging because I slapped a kid's hand instead of holding the hand close to the fire and saying "hot".

Did you help the dog bite him gently, too?

Violence happens in nature, Jason. Sorry, but it does. I don't believe in teaching a kid in ways that they never EVER get hurt, because being an adult means knowing how to deal with hurt--of all sorts.

What it comes down to, AGAIN, is that you raise your kids differently than I do. You still haven't given me a good reason why it should be illegal, either, just as I haven't given YOU a good reason why anyone should ever hit their kids.

You say kids aren't property, and that if you can't hit another adult, you shouldn't be able to hit a child.

I say kids are not property, but they ARE a responsibility, and that other forms of punishment are not allowed to be given to other adults, either--at least, not without a trial, and a judge, and an arrest, and all that jazz.

Want to have to have kids get punished 10 months down the road from when they committed their crime, and we'll just set up a child's court system, with police parents can call to "arrest" their children when they do something wrong, a judge and jury who can hear the facts, lawyers who specialize in child punishment, a jury of their peers, and laws pertaining to who can be punished and how, based on precedent.

Eventually EVERYONE will know that being an hour late for curfew is going to be grounded for 2 weeks, because that's what the LAW says about it.

The good news is you can't get any more reddies because this post has been moved, the bad news is your still talking crap.

Do you think that spanking a child should be illegal?

I might not be saying anything new here as I have read many of the answers here on this topic,but I would like to add my two cents too.

For those who have said that parents are irresponsible and make the kids pay for their mistakes in regard to childproofing the home etc.One must bear in mind that not all of us can afford to have our home childproofed with all the gadgets available.And not all parents who childproof their home are good parents.

And I know for a fact that not all parents are being careless when their kid runs out onto the street or go near a hot stove. Sometimes kids have a knack for getting into the most scariest situations.
I have a nephew who has a habit of getting himself hurt in the most odd places,bumps on the head mostly as he cannot be still in one place even for a minute and he is just a year plus some months old.His mom talks to him,scolds him and even threatens to take away his things,he will say sorry,but the next instant he will bump his head or hand somewhere( after all he is just a year old).

My mom-in-law thinks that he does it because he is not punished with a spanking.She is a mother of 5(the second youngest being a set of twins and the youngest being just a year younger than the twins).I can imagine how hard it must have been raising them all and I can understand her having to spank them on occasion.They are all grown up and married (some with kids).I do not see anything violent in them,in fact I see them more tolerating of their kids(when they get into mischief) than I am who was never punished with a spanking. I would say I am more strict when it comes to wanting to discipline my child (not that I spank but whenever my kid does something wrong I will not laugh or make them see I find it funny,I would rather she know that I am not pleased with what she did with a frown or even taking away some of her previleges like playtime, I have swatted my daughter's hand a few times but never spanked (hopefully I won't have to... ).

Not all kids are easy to discipline with time-outs and explanations or light punishments.Each child is different and some need more than time-outs to make them see their wrongdoing( no hitting please... ).It might seem harsh to me that someone is spanking their child,but I might not have seen what led to it. Don't judge parents by the one time you see them with their children.

That being said I would also like to tell you about something I remember from my childhood.We had a neighbour who used to beat his daughter a lot.Not with his bare hands,but he used to pick up anything he can get his hands on,one day he even picked up a log of wood that was lying nearby and was about to hit his daughter (who must have been 10-12 not sure as I was very young 7 or 8 then).Fortunately my dad stepped in and took him away for a talk,since then we never saw him hit her,but he used to verbally abuse her just the same.
Sorry to say that there wasn't a system then to help her in my community.She is grown up and married with kids.I don't see her often,but I am sure she has scars that run deep and I am sure she will be all for making spanking illegal.

Making something illegal has a lot of consequences as many have pointed out.

I think a system should be in place to check on families now and then to see if the children are healthy and well disciplined rather than checking to see if the parents are spanking or not. I think more should be done to help out the suffering kids who are ignored or lost amidst the chaos of wrongful arrests or adopted by abusers or taken from one foster home to another because they were taken away from their parents and run through the social system.

I am sure it must be easier to check on kids than having to check on parents,as abused kids will always have signs of abuse either in their behaviour or in their performance in school or in some other way that would assist the system remove them from abusive parents.

As someone else pointed out, in today's age it is hard for two working parents to nurture their children as it once was with one parent working.Should we add to the already failing system by arresting parents for spanking their children, and sending the kids off to some strangers who for all we know might be worse than the parents who just spank?

As I said before it is parental choice how they discipline their kids,but if the legal system and child protection were doing their job right,most kids who were being abused will be safe because the monitoring will be good enough to spot the abused and save them.

Good Luck to all the parents who are trying to help their kids be the best they can! :)

Well news to all of you... My son was outside playing throwing rocks and hit a little girl in the mouth and made her bleed after I repeatedly said no. I spanked him and made him go to his room where he fell asleep crying. I felt really bad for that girl because today was her 4 yr old birthday. No creative punishment came to mind except a spanking. So, within a day, I change my opinion maybe spanking might be necessary.

I think asking the question, "Should spanking your child be illegal?" should be illegal.

Well news to all of you...My son was outside playing throwing rocks and hit a little girl in the mouth and made her bleed after i repeatedly said no. I spanked him and made him go to his room where he fell asleep crying. I felt really bad for that girl because today was her 4 yr old birthday. No creative punishment came to mind except a spanking. So, within a day, i change my opinion maybe spanking might be necessary.

I commend you, as I think it takes a heckuva guy to post what you did.

My lack of respect stems from the idiots on this sight that when had initially posted my opinion some jerk had to give me a red mark against my name because he thought spanking is very appropiate. So if everyone is titled to their own opinion on how to raise their children how i voiced mine but yet i now have a negative rating? So since i am now labeled for my opinion you people are going to hear me at all costs.
If my child constantly reaches for the hot stove, i pick him up, explain to him how hot it is, move the pot over and and guide his hand close to the heat as to not burn him so he can feel with his senses. He now says hot hot every time he is near. No pain no violence just patience, caring.
You people that hit have no good reasons why you should hit for those few yrs of your kids life. Yall are making stuff up to justify your violent attempts to control a child by using violent means.
What you people fail to realize is just because they are from your sperm and egg does not mean they are a possession. They are now human beings with the same rights and everyone else here in america. They need to be taught. They are in this world for the first time. Everything to them is new. They are curious and want to explore so you hit them?
I am talking about hitting toddlers. School age kids do not need to be hit either. If they are acting up doing seriously wrong behaviors put their butts in a juvenile facility for a short period of time. There is never a need to hit someone unless you all both agree to put on the boxing gloves and go toe to toe.


I agree with this statment:

"Yall are making stuff up to justify your violent attempts to control a child by using violent means."

I am guilty of this, and its purely because of lack of patients. I may not practice hitting my kids but I do yell with such a violent mouth it almost scares me sometimes. However wrong it may or may not be its not illegal and I don't think it ever should be. If it was I wouldn't have any kids at the risk they may cost me fines or jailtime over something they could have potentially provoked.

Not so sure about this statement though:

"What you people fail to realize is just because they are from your sperm and egg does not mean they are a possession."

Kids may not be a possession but they are a responsibility, a piece of clay to be moulded. The are the product of their parents DNA. The are the product of their parents psychology as well. (I will show my kids anything I know that may help them in there journey) They will never be a product of another parents philosophy.

Well news to all of you...My son was outside playing throwing rocks and hit a little girl in the mouth and made her bleed after i repeatedly said no. I spanked him and made him go to his room where he fell asleep crying. I felt really bad for that girl because today was her 4 yr old birthday. No creative punishment came to mind except a spanking. So, within a day, i change my opinion maybe spanking might be necessary.

Jason, you learned today, that as a parent, you never know what is going to happen next. Thank you for coming back and posting this.

No I do not think that spanking your child should be against the law. I think that kids are lacking discipline these days. I think that there is a line between spanking and beating.. A child needs to know who the boss is.. There are to many parents leting there children rule the roost at home.. And I see this everyday at work.

My lack of respect stems from the idiots on this sight
Jasondebil-you are a very kind person with good manners and style.I would like to say you THANK YOU for your respect to your opponents!:eek:

Children are small adults, they just haven't learned all the wrongs from rights, when they are small. My opinion, hitting is down right wrong. I have a 12 year old boy and a 10 year old girl, never hit them, I did tap their hands when they were much smaller.

Why do I believe this... adults get so angry and don't realize the force they use. Hitting is abuse, no matter how one tries to justify it.

Do we hit adults as a form of punishment when they do something wrong or break the rules? Adultery, stealing, battery, etc. Shouldn't we discipline are children with words and taking the things away from them that they like/love... Yes. It has worked for me with my children. I think hitting only shows a child you can't control yourself, that hitting is the right thing to do, when things don't go their way. I believe it leads to aggression and much anger and worse.

Children learn by what they are shown, not what we tell them. Period!

adults get so angry and don't realize the force they use.

Do we hit adults as a form of punishment when they do something wrong or break the rules?


Getting angry and hitting can definitely turn into abuse, I will give you that. But a controlled spanking is much different than an abusive hit. That is only my opinion.
The whole thing about kicking a child abusers azz sounds a lot better to me than taking away his "stuff" :eek: Just maybe people would think a little harder on whether they would do it. That is just my opinion.:rolleyes:

"Why do I believe this...adults get so angry and don't realize the force they use."

I believe this statement is 100% correct. It makes me sick when I hear about abuse cases that have lead to death. I agree that hitting as a result of a parent having loss control is abuse.

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AS for this statement:
"Do we hit adults as a form of punishment when they do something wrong or break the rules? Adultery, stealing, battery, etc. "

Answer is "YES" , yes we do get punished for things we do.
- Robbers get shot all the time for stealing.

- Raged husbands have hit there wives for cheating. Even killed.

-One of my wife's friend was being battered periodically by her piece of boyfriend, so me and one of my friends took care of the matter. I doubt he raises his hand towards another woman again.

- Worse is when you end up in prison for something you did wrong. That's when all sorts of things can and do happen to criminals. I will spare you the details.

- Is electric chair considered hitting. It's a quick yet painful punishment as well.


I agree with what you are saying fully however some folks just don't have the parenting skills necessary. You might have more skills than your neighbor but you cannot fault the rest of the world because you can't get them all to think like you.

If we started locking up parents on charges of abuse due to a spanking. Where will all the children go... hopefully your house. And if we started fining the parents for spanking their kids then its only going to hurt the kids. Heck they may get it worse for compromising the rent money.


How do you fell about guys who fight professionally and teach that to there kids?

And in the end, spanking is not wrong, not harmful and not illegal.
It is a good parenting method to help correct incorrect behavior when other methods have not worked or the situation is so dangeroius it needs to be done.

The younger child is not just a small person, they are a child without the mental ability to rationalise and justify actions, and often the punishment is what makes them change.

I have a 12 year old boy and a 10 year old girl, never hit them, I did tap their hands when they were much smaller.

The problem with this whole discussion is lumping a tap on the hands, in with smacking a kid around out of anger at his actions. Big difference.

Hello again:

I agree with tal. We DO lump "tapping" in with "whacking", or "smacking". That's because we don't know what those words mean. In fact, those words, like all politically correct speak, are used to cover up a problem - not expose it.

If you notice, everybody here who lifts their hands to their children calls it something else. I, on the other hand, have consistently used the term "hit".

In order for us to be able to discuss the problem rationally, we need to use the same terminology, or we'll never get on the same page. In my view, the word "hit" is appropriate. It encompasses everything from a tap all the way to causing serious injury. Everybody knows what hitting is. Not everybody knows what a "tap" is.

In my opinion, you want to parse the word "hit", so you can hit and pretend you're not hitting.

The REAL problem is once you parse the word hit, everybody is going to parse it different. Your "tap" is somebody else's "whack", or somebody else's "beat".

If we can't decide which words to use, we'll just keep on talking AT each other, and we'll continue to suffer from the effects of child abuse for a long time to come.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking with it.

excon

I suppose we all use words that sound "softer".

Whoa... child "abuse" will continue because we don't equate a "smack" and a "tap" with the word "hit"?

I thought, personally, that child abuse would continue because we allow anyone with the right organs to become a parent.

Some people think this is a black and white subject, but really it isn't.

Whoa...child "abuse" will continue because we don't equate a "smack" and a "tap" with the word "hit"?

I thought, personally, that child abuse would continue because we allow anyone with the right organs to become a parent.
Synn, are you saying that we shouldn't let some people have children??

Synn, are you saying that we shouldn't let some people have children???I'll let her answer that but I can agree that some people should not have had children.

I'm saying that telling people how to discipline their children is a half step from telling people they can not have children to begin with.

And really--would that be so bad? That you couldn't have children until you passed certain tests--like stress tests, and common sense tests, and how not to hurt your children tests?

Wouldn't it be better to not allow people with violent tendencies to have children, than to expose their children to the violence and THEN take them away?

It's not as much the violence that bothers me as much as the neglectful/absent parenting.

Well, me too, NK.

But since this thread was about the "violence" of spanking your child--that's the part I addressed.

I agree, some people shouldn't be able to have kids. There ia a long list why they shouldn't. Even if we set aside the beatings and the sexual abuse, there are many more reasons. But I know for good reason that if we let the government pick who and when, then we are all screw and a step closer to losing everything we live for. So, for us "cool" people, we watch out and do what we can to protect and nourish others children.
I have always played a huge part in other kids' lives, and I like to think I have mad a big enough impact on the ones that I meet or the ones that just come to stay with us over night and come to find out they don't want to leave for specific reasons. It breaks my heart. Just being somewhere with a gosh darn clean bathroom makes them feel better sometimes. Awww, dang, I suppose this is part of life, but it is sad at times.

That's kind of my point, Start.

If they start telling people (via laws) how to discipline their children (and sorry--but a spanking has no worse impact on most kids than a time-out does, or "stealing" their possessions and calling it a punishment), then why can't we have laws about who can have children to begin with?

I mean, it's in the better interest of children to prevent people with anger management issues, or sexual promiscuity, or no common sense from having children to start with!

Had the original question been "should other forms of punishment be promoted over spanking", I would have been on the side of so many of the "NEVER EVER EVER EVER HIT SOMEONE" people.

However--the word "illegal" smacks to me of a too controlling government putting its nose into yet ANOTHER place it has no reason to be in. I don't need my government to be my nanny. I'm a grown-up, thanks, and I can make my own decisions about right and wrong, especially since in this case it's common sense that you don't hit a child the way you'd hit an adult, and you don't hit a child in anger EVER.

Tell you what: I'll raise my kids MY way, you raise your kids YOUR way, and we'll leave the government and laws out of it, since we're all sane and reasonable people. Why don't we save the cries of "abuse!!" for when a child is really being abused, instead of when a child is being raised differently than you would raise them?

Very good. I think that sounds wonderful!

I've said my piece on this, but I know kids who have parents that spank them when they do pretty bad things. One thing is for sure, they never do it in public or in front of me.
Its just something people seem to keep behind closed doors. If its such a positive form of discipline, then why do so many people hide it?

I've said my piece on this, but I know kids who have parents that spank them when they do pretty bad things. One thing is for sure, they never do it in public or in front of me.
Its just something people seem to keep behind closed doors. If its such a positive form of discipline, then why do so many people hide it?
I agree Greg, very much so. If I needed to, like I felt I did when my son ran across the road... there were people around and yup, I gave him a spanking right then and there. Also at the grocery store, let me tell you there have been plenty of lets sit and wait for this time out to be over times too. I am not scared, I have nothing to hide.

I also wonder what goes on behind closed doors. It is scary to think think about it. I know a lot of parents who talk big, but when they are at home, they follow nothing they say they stand for. Behind closed doors is what really matters. As for me, I think I am the same mom here and there, and I think my kids realize that too. I may say please and thank you in public more often than I do at home, but I am working on that and have been for a while now! LOL:p

I think, really, that the reason I (and my parents) go/went behind closed doors is that a spanking is punishment enough. There's no reason to add public humilation to that punishment (unless, of course, public humiliation would add to the justice of the punishment).

You don't put kids in time-out in public, either. You also don't take their possessions away from them in public.

Tell me one punishment, other than taking your kids home, that you DO do in public.

I had trouble with my boys when they were teens, being there for me to pick them up when and where they were suppose to be. I went to pick them up with a pig in the back of the truck once , they never were late again.

I think, really, that the reason I (and my parents) go/went behind closed doors is that a spanking is punishment enough. There's no reason to add public humilation to that punishment (unless, of course, public humiliation would add to the justice of the punishment).

You don't put kids in time-out in public, either. You also don't take their possessions away from them in public.

Tell me one punishment, other than taking your kids home, that you DO do in public.
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I've done some pretty stern talkings to in public. Eventually I get a I'm sorry, and a full explanation on how it would have been prevented, how we are wasting fun time dealing with something that never should have happened. Etc...

When kids cut up in stores or restaurants, you have to let them know they better stop. They think I'm mean (grandkids), but by the time we are ready to check out, not only are they behaving, but get special treats. ( yeah, its okay to spoil grandkids, and fun) As for my own, they responded to the first warning, so it was never an issue. It starts when they are very young, and at home, where you can see everything they do, but I honestly don't know what I would do in public, if they didn't heed that first warning.

I have hardley ever put my hand on my children's buns. Not sure if I will ever feel like it is needed again, but if it is, I will do it.
There are certain things that can be handled a little later and then there are some things that need to be handled RIGHT AWAY, and I will be damned if I am going to go through a store with 4 crazy kids, so if I need to stop and take care of business and give a time out till they are able to walk through with me... then so be it. HUgs... that is what I give most of the time! :)

I think, really, that the reason I (and my parents) go/went behind closed doors is that a spanking is punishment enough. There's no reason to add public humilation to that punishment (unless, of course, public humiliation would add to the justice of the punishment).

You don't put kids in time-out in public, either. You also don't take their possessions away from them in public.

Tell me one punishment, other than taking your kids home, that you DO do in public.

I have done time-outs in public. If we are doing something where I can do a time out. I have spanked my child in public as well.
I also will tell my child that if she doesn't shape up then when we do get home a privilege, such as computer or TV time is taken away. She is old enough now to get grounded or sent to her room for "crimes" committed in public.

I think the showing up with the pig was GREAT.

Most of my punishments, as I reached my double-digit years, were constructive. I'll probably do the same thing.

My parents had a 200 year old house that had been converted into 2 apartments. They rented one half of the house as I was growing up, and we lived in the other half. They used the rent to pay extra on the mortgage every month, so that all that was left when I was 13 or so was the principle.

Every punishment we had from that point on had to do with renovating the house. I was late for curfew? I was grounded until the kitchen was painted. Mouthing off to my mom? I got to sand cupboards. Fighting with my siblings? We had to work TOGETHER on a project. What this taught was that we all had to do jobs we didn't want to, and breaking the rules would result in having more work for myself in the end. I also learned that the length of my punishment was dependent on ME. I had to work to my parents' standards, so if I went too fast and was sloppy, I had to start over. From scratch. With painting, that meant stripping and sanding and priming and THEN repainting. So... it was better to go slow and steady and do it right the first time. It also taught me to think twice before I did anything, because I really really didn't want that punishment.

I think that's a FAR more appropriate punishment than grounding, or taking away possessions, or spanking or anything like that. Of course, it doesn't work until the child is old enough to use those tools, and to understand that it's a punishment.

The only punishment I remember getting in public was, in fact, a spanking. But--I had been warned, and warned, and warned not to go to the store display, and I did anyway... and broke a display of china in the grocery store (remember those days where you could save points for a whole set?). My mom had to pay for it, and she was crying--there went half our food budget for the next month. I got a spanking for that--but frankly, I really probably deserved it.

Really--ALL punishments should be a matter of circumstance and personal belief. For me, as a kid, being forced to tell the pastor what I did wrong and have HIM set my punishment was the worst thing that could happen to me. I thought, as a 5 year old, that he WAS Jesus, and that Jesus was mad at me and wouldn't let me into heaven. He set me straight that he wasn't Jesus, but then asked me why I would want to make Jesus cry with the bad things I've done. Would that work for all kids? Absolutely not. But then--that was my point to begin with: not every punishment will work for every kid.

Choosing a punishment appropriate to the "crime", the child, and the circumstances is the parents' job--NOT the government's.

You know, Synnen, I love what your parents did. (working on the house) I am going to have to remember this when my daughter is old enough. What a great idea!

Most of America populace think it improper to spank children.
The other day I was talking to one of my younger buddies about methods used to discipline children.



We talked about "time outs", grounding, holding back "rewards" until the child displayed desired behavior etc. One of the things we discussed was the act of spanking and my friend explained that no, he does not spank any of his children.


He explained that what he does is to take the misbehaving child out for a ride in the car and talk. He said that usually this works and that the child calms down fairly quickly and really doesn't take too much time.


By removing the child, in this case his son, from the immediate situation and providing a change of scenery, the child is allowed to focus on something different. Once the child has the opportunity to change perspective, things get better quickly and the child has better understanding of his place within the family and begins to understand the families concept of acceptable behavior.


He kindly shared a picture of the process which I share with you now.

I just thought of all of us sitting and talking about the spanking issue, and thought this was cute! Poor little feller!

Ha ha ha ha! Very funny Startover. Love it!

Start that is freakin awesome!