My sister is now in her thirties. She has suffered from depression, anxiety, and other issues since she was in high school. She is extremely intelligent, artistic and book smart but has difficulty dealing with day to day issues. She has never been diagnosed and doesn't stick with traditional therapy or medication. She is so well read on antidepressants, that she refuses to take them based on their possible side effects. She tried to committ suicide a few years ago and for awhile after she was OK. She cannot keep or make friends, make decisions, hold a job, decide where to live or what to do and is basically immobilized. She overanalyzes situations to the point of becoming overly sensitive to anxious, to downright depressed. She is married but not happily. She has a two year old and he is the one thing that keeps her going. Ironically, she is an incredible mother.
She checked herself into a mental hospital over the weekend while I was out of town. She doesn't have insurance so she wasn't able to get treatment right away. She checked out on Monday and my mother picked her up feeling very frustrated and saddened that they couldn't help her. My mom is wondering if we should put her into a private facility that would be able to evaluate her, diagnose her and medicate her properly. She realizes that it will cost thousands a day, and that she will have to put it on her credit card. We are having a difficult time finding the right place for her to go. I told my mom I will leave work and take care of my nephew until she is better. Her husband doesn't make enough to take off and there are other issues with him as well.

How do we go about finding the right place? How do we handle this? I have said in the past that I think she has Asperger's Syndrome ( a form of autism) although she has never had a doctor tell her that. I have spoke with specialists and her childhood and behavior resemble my sister almost perfectly. My father thinks she has early symptoms of schizophrenia. I don't think that is what she has but no one knows.

:( WHAT DO WE DO? She is very indecisive and becomes combative and argumentative easily. We don't want to scare her, we want to help her. I think she is asking for help if she went and checked herself in somewhere. However, she tends to withdraw from us and then it is difficult to get her to do what we want or think she needs. HELP!! I am so scared and sad and worried and feel so helpless, my mother is a wreck. She has been seeing a therapist on how to handle my sister and how to respond to her. She has stopped taking care of her financially because he thinks we have rendered her helpless and created a sense of dependency but with this, if we don't help her, then she may continue to spiral into a place that we cannot pull her out of! HELP!! :confused:

Wow shattered, I'm really feeling it, for your sister as well as for you. Because something that affects someone, also affects the people around that person... like in this case. Your sister did good on going somewhere for help, at least she realizes she needs it and wants to do something about it. Which that is hugely important.
I really wish I could help out, but right now I got to say I'm in her same situation. I know there is someone who will enlighten you about this situation better. And I hope she'll get the help she needs soon, because once you realize how much help you need, it gets worse when you try reaching out and you can't do anything about it.
I came into depression when in high school also... and I've always had other issues since childhood. No one has ever diagnosed me with anything either cause I haven't seen any specialists. So I know a little how your sister must feel. Possibly very frustrated. And just to mention it, I told my mom, sister, and aunt what happened to me as a kid. She is feeling badly about it, and so am I. It has affected me tremendously in many ways.
But anyway I'm not here to talk about my issues, I wanted to try to help, but found out I couldn't because I'm also needing some help myself at this point.
So good luck in helping your sister out. She really needs it, although it would've been good if she would've sought for help earlier.

Please talk about your life, it will help me understand through her eyes.. this isn't just about me, this is about understanding mental illness. I need to understand and maybe your experience will help me to respond differently... please I need to hear whatever anyone has to say. I am not trying to sound desperate, I really need some guidance.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

I hope someone comes here with expert advice for you shattered.
My heart goes out to you.

Hugggs to you.Hang in there girl!

Thanks Firmy, I too am waiting...
I know you would help if you could.
Hugs to you, always

Hi,

I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND this post too!

My empathy for your sibling is tremendous(and sympathy for you and yours too)

Once a person is convinced that 'What works for others,won't work for me because... 'There is a very hard battle ahead,until they(the sufferer) reach out for the help,they know deep down,they need.

I have been on and off medications for mental illnesses for 12 years or so,sometimes its just the side effects that spoil the serenity,other times it's a mental urging that stops me from thinking rational thoughts(Afterthoughts are "Why did I EVER get off them,I could have avoided all this mess by just doing what the professionals suggested")

As far as insurance or some other kind of coverage,

Call the hospital,clinic,psychologist,psychiatrists,mental health board in your county,social security,anyone that's affiliated with the mental health field.There is a lot more help out there than the average person thinks,it just takes effort to find.In my case I could do for myself,in a friends case his family had to do all the legwork,it took time and patience,but they love him and want him to advance in life,not stay in the same rut he's been in for so many years.

Sometimes we have to do for others what they cannot do for themselves.

Please,don't feel responsible for her illness,only feel responsible for her recovery from it.

I am posting a few sites that deal with bi-polar support(although it might not apply to her situation,it is a starting point for you to look for a site smiler to it.)

How to Recognize, Cope and Deal with Your Loved One's Bipolar Disorder (http://www.bipolarsupporter.com/report11)

Bipolar Parenting (http://www.bipolarparenting.com/)

Discover the Comprehensive, Proven System That’s Helped My Mom and Thousands of Other People with Bipolar Disorder Rebuild a “Normal” Life (http://www.survivebipolar.net/)

And this one to look a symptoms of bipolar.

Allsup - Free Bipolar Evaluation (http://www.allsup.com/apply/bipolar-disorder.aspx?SessionCode=1038&gad=COm0irEDEgigh1_9DdCmwxi55u7-AyCxitoi&OVRAW=bipolar%20disorder&OVKEY=bipolar%20disease&OVMTC=advanced&OVADID=569186012&OVKWID=26221020512)

I really hope this helps,

Ken

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and share your own experience. I am learning a little at a time and I will read all of the links you have posted in an effort to gain more clarity and insight. The problem is, we don't know what exactly she is suffering from, we only see the symptoms. To some, it just seems she is lazy, difficult and inable to be productive. Since we can't see what she has, like downs syndrome or other physical impairments, it makes it more difficult to understand. Especially because she is so intelligent and opininated and capable of caring for her child. Yes, you have a very good point that we need to do whatever to help her, if she cannot help herself. I only hope that we can do it in time.. and that it works. Ken, I really appreciate you reaching out to me, I feel very lonely and afraid for her, and understanding what others deal with and go through, helps me to see she is not alone and neither am I.
That is a great comfort in this moment and I look forward to every person sharing their perspective with me, so that I can learn what it is like for her...
It is always different when it happens to your family, it is so much easier to advise others than to advise myself. Thank you again.

I am so scared and sad and worried and feel so helpless, my mother is a wreck. She has been seeing a therapist on how to handle my sister and how to respond to her. She has stopped taking care of her financially because he thinks we have rendered her helpless and created a sense of dependency but with this, if we don't help her, then she may continue to spiral into a place that we cannot pull her out of!! HELP!!!!!
If only it were clear what "help" is, exactly. This is so hard. One wouldn't let a toddler loose on a freeway in the name of honoring his freedom of choice and responsibility for his own actions. Yet, to continually shield an adult from the consequences of their own choices breeds dependency and prevents real maturity. It's hard enough even without mental illness, but that just takes it to a whole other level.

All I can think of to offer on the question of how to truly help your sister is to always ask yourself in every situation what she is actually capable of at this time, and do for her only what she can't (not won't) do for herself. If she is capable of making constructive choices, but is unwilling to do so, then she may need to attend the school of experience for awhile longer. How to distinguish between inability and unwillingness is the really hard part. I wish I had more to offer. I will bear you in my heart and mind as I go about my day. Bless you.

GOsh Cowboy, you just described the whole deal in a few sentences. This is the struggle we have been dealing with... letting her make choices, but not sure which ones she can't or just won't make. It is the hardest thing to watch someone so beautiful, intelligent and talented feel so horrible and distraught, leaving her completely immobilized. We have done way too much in the past and now we are afraid to not do enough. Just answering me and being here, really makes a difference.. I hope that others who read this who feel the same way, or have someone in their life who does, reach out to me, because it is the only thing that keeps me from falling apart. Staying strong alone, and for everyone else is just about the hardest thing I can do really.. You are always there with a kind word and that is what is so special about you, NEVER AN ORDINARY GUY!

Dear Shatteredsoul.

Without a definitive diagnosis, there is not much that can be done. I know how hard it is to be aware of an ailment and not being able to 'identify' it.

I took the first step late in life because I needed to know myself what is so 'different' about me. I too do not condone antidepressants as a 'cure all' and hate the side effects, so I began treating myself. Which, is something no clinician, lawyer, or therapist should do.

I do believe sharing one's inner feelings and reaching out is important, but know that those who are close and unable to fathom the depth of our painful existence essentially cannot help.

The support is sometimes taken constructively and sometimes make us feel we are a burden and that makes things worse. So I think the first step for your sister to take is to get an evaluation to define the exact type of mental disorder she has. Then, it will still be up to her is she wants to accept medicinal therapy or is willing to seek counseling for stabilization.

We all go through denial too, and need support in finally accepting that there is no shame or blame involved.

Bless you for loving and caring so much that you want to help others take that first step. And yes, I know how hard it is when loved ones are inflicted...

Just don't give up on her.

Lots of love and hugs... Chery

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_16.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNfox000) Fear of the unknown within ourselves is worse than any other fear in the world.

Chery,
The support we give her is almost exactly as you describe. She tends to feel like a burden and gets angry with us and withdraws. She is trying to follow up with the state to see what they can offer her, but without insurance, it is limited. That is why we thought maybe a private facility could help. The problem is, if she wants to finally recognize what it is, rather than just telling everyone how sad, lonely, depressed and unsure she is about everything. I mentioned to her one time about considering the possibility of her having Asperger's Syndrome, she FLIPPEd out on me. I have learned that I have to respond to her in a way that doesn't make her defensive, although my parents and I almost always get that response, regardless. Yes, I will never, ever give up on my sister. I love her with all of my heart and I just want her to have peace of mind, to be happy and healthy. She has stayed with me before but that didn't work out, she doesn't feel comfortable in her own skin, let alone someone else's space. She has stayed with my dad and they usually end up fighting and she comes home within a couple weeks. My mom does everything to help her but won't let her live with her, because it will foster a greater sense of dependency on her and that also is unhealthy.. My family members have offered her to come stay with them. The ironic thing is Chery, that I have a family of educators, in the field of social work, behaviorism and special needs, and NONE of us can help her because we are too closely involved.
I recognize the importance of what you are saying and we cannot fathom her experience of what she is going through. BUT people like you, who have been there, CAN.. this is why I began this thread.. So I can say the things here that I can't say to her and continue to broaden my awareness of such unexplainable pain and suffering.
I have always been able to manage my life and up until the past few months, I never had any real negative thoughts or sadness . I realize through losing people that I too can succumb to pain and sadness, but I have an inner strength that somehow pulls me through. I know I am a good person and worthy of love... my sister doesn't even believe that. That is the saddest part of all.. I admire your strength and your ability to fight for your own peace and happiness. I am in awe of your desire to help others in the process.. Thank you my friend. As always, you are straight from the heart.

Hello Shattered,

My step fathers side of the family are full of actual follow through suicides. Depression and mental illness is common. My step fathers mother committed suicide when he was young. My step fathers cousin and uncle. As well their was a uncle by marriage who tried to drive his van off the cliff. They took him into the hospital and then released him. Thought everything is okay and then a month later my step father found him dead. I am not trying to scare you or anything but I am going to get to what I am trying to say. There is a lot of turmoil in somebodies mind if they want to end it. This is of course my own personal thoughts and oppinions. Can I understand the depth of this probably not. Although I have to admit in my teenager years I often thought about ending my life. Things have always been a struggle. Of course, Never attempted but thought of it. Too be honest with you about medications, I do believe and have read that there is even a greater risk of somebody committing suicide that is on medication. The reason is one of the side effects are depression and suicidal thoughts and that medications to treat depression can actually make it worse. There are other ways and other steps to take in somebodies life to figure out how to mend and heal. All I know is that YOU can not stop somebody from committing any act. Each person has a choice. I would actually be thankful that your sister actually checked herself in. She should be given praise for doing it. Instead of you and your mother being in turmoil over this. Be thankful that your sister admits that she has a problem and does seek out some sort of help, I am in her way of thinking that medications will only make the problem worse plus it will just make her more dependent on something else. Also Medications are a band aid solution. There needs to be a long term solution. I also feel that just because she has these tendencies you explained in your post does not mean she necessarily has a certain medical problem and nothing was officially diagnosed. I would also suggest a complete medicall including hormone imbalances and other medical posibilites, like thyroid or anything else that might contribute. I also agree with the doctor that it sounds as if she is way to dependent on people around and that the only way to help her grow is by not helping out in certain ways. As far as treatments or care, there should be programs, that are cost free that will help intervene in certain situations it is just a matter of looking into different programs that might be available in the community. Small steps. As far as turmoil for you and your mom. It should not be up to you or your mother to be financially responsible for her care. You need to realise that you can want to help her as much as you want but it is up to her to seek it out. She did by checking in. If she does not want to seek any kind of medical attention you nor your mother can have any control over that. You need to remember that you and your mother can not control or make decisions for somebody else. Sometimes you have to just let go and hope they learn from whatever mistakes they make and also let them live with the consequences of their choices. Just show compassion and love and make sure she knows that you will always give emotional support. As long as she knows you care. The only thing is when there is such a strong reaction from your mother and you. With sadness and frustration it only will make her feel worse. I believe you need a different approach like letting her know how proud you are that she checked herself in.

I want to write more but have to go.
Please let me know what you think about what I wrote.

Joe

Yup, you have a point Joe. I think sometimes we just want to make it better and we don't really know how. It is all from the best of intentions. I know what you are saying about medication and that is true. She knows that and that is why she always knows exactly what they are prescribing. I don't want a band aid or an immediate fix. I have watched her for the past 16 years be unhappy, unsettled, depressed, socially withdrawn, ridden with anxiety and incapable of finishing school or staying in one place. It is so frustrating. I think that no one can make someone help themselves. We have pulled back tremendously, to let her navigate her own way and seek the help that she needs to get. The problem is, when you care so much for someone and you see them trying to finally take action, the impulse is to help. We haven't made any decisions for her and my parents have applauded her efforts to to take small steps to finding help. I have tried to call her, but she hasn't returned my calls. I only leave messages saying I just want you to know I love you and I am here if you want to talk.. She called me collect from that place she checked into. She didn't know I was in North Carolina. She was trying to reach out to me and I wasn't there.. it seems I always fail her without even meaning to.. IT makes me feel like I can never do what is right. DO you know what I mean? It would almost be easier if she was a drug addict. AT least in the sense of helping her.
She is very aware of how to take care of her body, she knows all about pesticides and steroids and growth hormones. She eats organic food and takes vitamins. She doesn't have a thyroid problem that I know of, but I guess it can't hurt to check. She has been to a naturopathic doctor in the past, and she wanted to go again but they are expensive and again, no insurance.
The bottom line is, we don't want her to be medicated to cover up the problem.. we just want to know what the problem is to be able to find the best way to help her. I don't think she is crazy, I do think her brain is wired differently, I really believe she can manage it, if she understands what it is.. I really think it is Asperger's and if she could get diagnosed with that, there are many different resources, and ways of managing that. However, if she is reluctant to labeled than again, we are back at square one. The reason we thought maybe a private center may be helpful, is because maybe they would have the resources to properly diagnose her. The treatment in this country, unfortunately, is based on the money you have. The funding for mentally ill has been drastically cut, and millions of people suffer because of that. I believe in my sister's abilities, but because of her indecisiveness and her lack of insurance or m0ney, I don't know how well she can move forward with any progress. Loving and letting go is the single most hardest thing I have ever done and when I do try to be suppportive, it is never the right way, or how she needs it. I don't want to lose her and I don't want to be a martyr. I just want her to be OK.
What if I let her go and she dies.. how do I live with that Joe?
You are being open and honest and I do need that. As difficult as it is, I know you are right. You have always been so good to me. You are a loving and gentle soul and I thank you for opening my eyes. Sometimes the truth is so hard to see.. thank you my friend.

The thing I was trying to say to you Shattered is that you can not stop anybody from taking negative actions. The thing is shattered, If somebody makes that decision to end their life. There is nothing you can do to stop it. The more you try to intervene the more somebody retreats into their own world, right. You have done your part. You have told her that you love her and that you will be an emotional support when she needs it. Now it is up to her to come to you. Right?

My fathers uncle by marriage. There was no stopping him from doing what he was going to do. Although his family felt so guilty they were passing the buck and putting the blame on the person that found him and his family. In tragedy like that many people want to eighter blame themselves or other people but the truth and only truth is that it had nothing to do with the family or people around except for the individual that felt that was the only solution. I know it may be hard but the only way is to let go. Another thing I wanted to add, is that I think it is best that she has her child, the two year old. If you want to take care of him to help her out, she might feel that she is going to lose that too. In a way, it is beneficial for her to stay close to her child especially considering that is what is keeping her going. Right? If she suggests for you to help take care of him then that is okay especially if what she is doing is seeking help. Oh this is so hard and my heart is aching for what your family is going through.. Just know there is always going to be support for everybody involved. Question is, is she seeing somebody to talk to, like a counselor? Your mother is, but I think it might be important that everybody is able to see one. The whole family or individually?

I am crying right now... because I know.. you are right.. I just feel f@cking helpless. I can help a million people on this site and get a thousand greenies but I can't help my own f@cking sister! It just sucks... it sucks big time.
Being with her child is probably the only thing that helps. So, I will let go...

Your helping her out right now. Love is the greatest gift. Compassion. Loving her and showing her your understanding is helping her. Give yourself credit. Please understand that you should not be feeling helpless at all but full of love and understanding that knowing, that the best way to show somebody you care is by being emotionally supportive. That's it.

Why is it easier to give love and support to a complete stranger, than to someone I have known my whole life? Why??

There are no strangers, my belief is every body that we meet and everybody that we know. Whether on the internet, phone, messenger, or in person. It is because we have always known each other. Complete strangers, not so. Maybe you feel that way but I do not see it that way.

I don't mean you JOe. I mean me giving advice to people I have never seen, talked to or met before. IT is easier for me to know how to help them, what to say and be supportive than I can for my own family. Maybe because we are all connected but I mean, I am connected to my sister and she couldn't be anymore alienated from me than she is right now..

I am going to try and say the way I feel, which may or may not be how your sister feels... in an attempt to help you understand at least some of her emotions and needs.
Well you guys all know the symptoms of depression right... the helplessness, the thoughts of suicide and worthlessness. All the crying one has to do, and loss of interest and withdrawal from normal things. And then of course there's physical symptoms which include but not limited to, lack of energy, stress, fatigue perhaps... and so on. That and more is exactly what I've been struggling with for years now. The difference lies in what caused her depression and what caused mine. I know for a fact that mine was caused by emotional and psychological issues as well as nutrition and imbalances in my body. I've never gone to a specialist but one knows when something is wrong with them, of course after they acknowledge it.
I know I have some POSSIBLE(cannot diagnose myself) mental issues maybe behavioral. Which MIGHT include OCD, social phobia and/or social anxiety, perhaps. Very low self esteem. Something called selective mutism, if it may be associated with social phobia or I don't know. Maybe birth trauma.
Well I just listed those things because I found that I have at least one or more symptoms of each. Not saying I have all of those though.
Ok so I know some factors which may have influenced me coming up with any psychological problems. As a start, as a baby I was badly mistreated by my dad, and some by my sister. I was born into a sort of hostile environment... my dad hit my mom even when she was pregnant with me, then I was born through surgery. At an early age I used to see my mom and dad fighting a lot, and him hitting her. My sister wasn't a very loving sister towards me either. Then I was 5 or 6 when they broke up and separated, and we left to a very different environment, difficult for me to adjust... especially when little just months after that, my mom left with another man. Then came back for us, and we had to live with him... basically in a van, just parked it somewhere and that was our home. Constantly we would move from one place to another rent here, then move and rent there. Changed schools a few times. At school I never said a word, ever, that's why I suspect I suffered with Selective Mutism. Then that man sexually molested me for a period of 3-4 years. At the same time one of my close relatives was doing the same to me.
All those experiences I think really messed the way I would and still do look at the world around me. I feel angry sometimes, desperate, worthless, a burden on everyone, didn't let me develop neither mentally nor physically how I was supposed to. I cannot trust anyone or have a very hard time trusting people even close family. I retract from society and from family because I know they don't understand me... or feel they judge me and have fear all the time about how other people will see me and treat me. Tons of insecurity of myself and everything else. Not really too able to make decisions or wasn't able to (until barely this year I began to feel more free)because of the deep insecurity. I feel like I always do everything wrong and make everyone suffer, or do wrong also. Did pretty bad in my high school years due to depression, could not concentrate or think straight. And still have a little trouble but it's been better.
Now... what I wish my family would do is not to overly nurture me or just feel sorry for me. Yes I do need them to actually acknowledge that I have suffered and they didn't know it. That instead they made it worse by not even trying to find out more about what was going on with me. What I don't need them to do is to keep making me more dependent on them, but I do wish they could at least support. In fact, for a long time even as a kid I felt the need to just have a chance to be completely independent of anyone. I would like to start a new life being independent yet to do that I need someone to help me become independent because I didn't really learn that well. I do not want them to judge me, nor to feel disgust or sorrow nor to look at me as inferior. I need them to make me feel that I am worth it, that it wasn't my fault, that I can still become what I want to become. So the reason I withdraw from them is because they don't understand how everything messed up my mind, and maybe they just want me to get over it already, and of course because I've always felt better being alone or away from people. You know I still don't even understand myself yet as good as I wish but I have been coming to understand little by little. I just remembered something... maybe some mental illnesses are hereditary or something... I know my dad had some mental illness. I don't know which one/s or anything. And my mom seems sometimes that she's very insecure and perhaps has social phobia too... maybe just a little social anxiety.
The thing is... I'm not saying that anything that happened to me happened to your sister... maybe nothing that I mentioned above happened to her... but I just wanted to show how someone with psychological problems has suffered. And the emotions that arise in times of confusion and difficulty. I don't know if any of this can help you understand your sister, but it will probably be helpful for someone else that has gone through something similar to me.

You may not need a diagnosis for treatment, it depends. I have been severely mentally ill all my life, in and out of mental hospitals for years. Ive seen all kinds of specialists, have been on disability for mental illness since I was a teenager and there is still no definitive diagnosis. Sometimes you just can't roll someone's group of symptoms into a neat ball that fits neatly into any diagnosis, but she may still find one. .
The question about were to go to find help, sadly comes down to money. You say she doesn't have insurance, so this reduces the options available. I would be curious to know if she would be elidible for medicade, I know its based on income and her husbands income would greatly effect this, but still worth looking into. I myself have medicade because my income on disability is so low. Im also wondering if she would be qualify for state or federal disability and again with her husbands income this would effect the amount she would receive. If she can afford it, or if she could somehow manage to get on a state insurance, I would say the best place to start exploring is at a university teaching hospital, where she could get psychiatric testing, psychological testing, neurological testing and extensive blood work done. All these things can be done on an out patient basis but if she is resistant it may not go over too well. Hmm, someone could become her power of medical attorney and have a bit more envolvment into her treatment if she were at the average psychiatric hospital, or taking it a step farther, someone could become her legal guardian so you may have more control over treatments. You want to rule out organic illnesses, brain diseases,perhaps get an MRI or CAT scan if you haven't already and cheak with your federal building and local family independence agency to see if she might qualify for financial assistance for treatment, and(if you have one) also check if she qualifies for treatment at your local community mental health clinic where you don't have to have insurance. Its very difficult to get a doctor to agree to the testing you want done, they are obligated to reduce the expenditure of medical dollars, so if something isn't blatantly obviously needed (but may well still be) they will deny you, but keep that these people, eventually they will break.
Sorry if I rambled, Im obviously very bitter at the mental health system but am forced to work within and around it.
Try not to be discouraged by her hospitalization attempt, nothing is ever helped in only a couple days in a hospital. If you fear for her, you can always get her involitarily admitted to a psychiatric hospital just to keep her safe, if it comed to this. You can get a petition for a 72 hour hold at the court house.
Cheak out earthhouse.org, it's a private conventional and alternative psychiatric "hospital"
In NJ.
I wish the best of all things to you and your sister...

Agrees: Yes, thank you Cheri, but Ken could you elaborate on what you meant here?

More... scrutiny?

It was the only word I could think of at the time.

I was a contractor for almost 20 years,learning the trades through the school of hard knocks.

Almost all my training was in the field,not too much schooling,just hands on.
While working on a new bathroom replacement I got to the wiring on the light and ceiling vent and got totally stumped,only 2 switches and I couldn't figure out how to tie the hot wires so the light would work separately from the vent,I tried and tried,breaking wire ends till I was sooo frustrated I finally swallowed my pride and asked a friend "What did I do wrong?""I just can't figure it out"

He came that night,after his 10 hour shift,and had it done correctly in 2 minutes flat.
Smiling at me he says"Sometimes we're just too close to the forest to see the trees"

Closer scrutiny might not have been the right wording,but now the clarification is hopefully here,you are so able to assist others being further from the forest,but your own trees are so close you can't see them.

I can feel your frustration,I see you reaching out.

One question,when was your last personal time out?Time away from the forest viewing?Maybe a look at the ocean instead of trees?Vacation is a broad term meant to mean VACATING ALL THOSE THINGS AND FINDING NEW PERSPECTIVE.

Hope this helps a little,

Ken

Dear shatteredsoul.

I know how you feel. I am of help to others because I can relate so much that they think I'm a psychic.
The reason I can help others, but not myself, is because my family will never understand the inner side of me.

Before my brothes were born, my mother had one objective - to vent the hate for my absent father on me. After they were born I was nothing but a live-in babysitter who got beaten when the little ones complained about something I did. My strife to please her never turned to fruition. My hatred of her was never understood by my siblings (half-brothers). She later turned them against me and it took me a while to convince my youngest brother that I was a human and that I raised him to be half-way tolerant of me. The older brother still hates me today and blames me alone for all the mishaps that have happened in my life, such as abuse, rape, even my heart disease and degenerative spine. These I was born with because my mother attempted to abort me and did not eat properly while pregnant. But to them, it's my fault and they will never listen to my side of the 'story'. To them, she was the loving and caring mother and they don't remember her sitting on the couch, smoking, drinking coffee all day and watching soaps while I took care of their daily needs and cooked. Ironic, but I love them both.

My continued struggle to maintain my mental health has alienated me in many ways, too many to count, but I now realise it will do no good with those who have not been there. It's hard to explain the inner turmoil to someone who has no understanding of helplessness and confusion.

If we don't help ourselves, who will help? It would be nice if there were more people interested in helping because we are no longer a 'minority'. /And, it's about time for politicians, medical/psychological groups start thinking about more than just saving money. When they realize that these disorders can inflict their own family members, it might work.

Until then, most think I'm lazy because I divert from 'life' by being on this forum, watching TV, listening to music and reading a lot. I also studied psychology because I had to find a reason for what I was going through, and through this I was also able to help others in the process. I don't practice, but I reach out and try to help anyone who comes to me for a little reassurance. I refer them to practicing professionals who help them further along their way.

As Meterre said, the need to be accepted, appreciated, loved, and most of all understood is our greatest wish. Until that happens, we are pretty much on our own.

The bottom line is that we have just as much right to be here as anyone else and that we deserve to be understood.

The care and love for your sister warms my heart and I hope you don't give up on her. Do the best you can and encourage her to seek help from support groups.

Lots of Love and Hugs,

Chery

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_22_19.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNfox000)

Wow, I am speechless after reading all of these heartfelt responses. I don't even know what to say, that is a rare thing.. if you know me!
METERRE, YOu have literally been through he! And back. I do not know why you are as level headed as you are. I cannot fathom all of the emotions and reprecussions you have experienced based on your upbringing filled with sadness, abuse, and isolation. I cannot relate to your pain or your suffering in the way some of these other people can. You are such a tenacious soul. You are frustrated with how you are managing your life, but how could you be doing any better than you are? LIfe is such a mysterious thing, it seems the ones with the most beautiful spirits, suffer the most. I don't know why. Maybe in preparation for the next life. However it is this life we have to learn to survive in. I am so blessed to know you and to have you open up those wounds for me to understand another perspective. Thank you for doing that and I know it must be difficult to go there, because you don't harbor any hatred to your family. You are a completely loving person and you have an immense capacity to move on and forgive those that have hurt you. I don't think I am that strong, maybe I am just too stubborn or immature. Either way, I understand how difficult it is for my sister to relate to me, take my support and to feel understood. More than anything you have shown me the isolation and alienation that you endure.. and that she is enduring. What is so difficult is not being able to change it. I have to surrender to something that I don't understand. IT is hard. Thanks for being my friend, as always your advice is genuine and loving and very open and honest. IT means the world to me... Thanks.
Delori, what you said made perfect sense.. you cannot always wrap people up into some neat little package diagnosis. That is more for everyone else's comfort and understanding.
I am going to check out that earthouse.og in NJ and I appreciate all your advice that you gave in dealing with the state. AS you stated, it always comes down to money. IT is sad but true. You have been struggling for so long, I wonder how do you come to realize that you needed help, and how did you finally get it? OR did you? Did you need someone to take over, or did you do it on your own. My sister has also been struggling since she was a teenager but we really didn't see how bad it was.. Now it is so much worse.
Becoming power of attorney, or admitting her involuntarily, might jeopardize her rights to her child. I don't want to take away the one thing she has, that she does well. IT is such a fine line of knowing what is right, and what will do more harm. I feel like I am walking on a tightrope and one wrong move might be disastrous. I am very thankful to hear from you and your advice is very helpful. I need all the support I can get, so you reaching out to me is really uplifting.
Ken,
You are a source of inspiration for many people. Please remember that. I am always looking forward to hearing your thoughts and how you feel about this subject. I think people who suffer from any mental disorder or illness, are the best teachers we can have. WE need to hear you, and learn from you.. because through you, we gain so much insight. Maybe your experience will not only help you grow, but help so many others as well.. NOt only for my sister, but for all of us with family and friends like this, or someone who is suffering right now. Thanks Ken
Cheri, YOu have always reached out to anyone you see in pain or suffering. YOu have spent your life being tortured and abused and yet your heart is bigger than most. I guess no matter what, they can't kill that wonderful spirit of yours. IT broke my heart to hear about your mom and your childhood. YOur mother must have suffered from her own sickness to treat you that way. I can see that you too are forgiving and loving, as METERRe. You still find room in your heart for your family. I can only compare that to the love Jesus had for those that crucified him. I am not a religious person, but spiritual, yet I had to say that. You are a source of comfort, light and awareness for so many. I am blessed to know you and to realize the goodness in the world, even when there is so much sadness and evil. You are living proof of turning the other cheek. Yes, you have struggled and suffered and endured so much, but look at how amazing you are now.. You are an amazing, wonderful person who shows me that I cannot give up.. I must be loving and forgiving for that which I don't understand.. I will. Thanks for teaching me that.

I don't blame her for being worried about taking traditional medicine with all the side effects.
There are a lot of good natural alternative doctors that can work miracles because they find the root of the problem rather than mask the problem with drugs.
If I know what area you live I would even try to find an alternative doctor in your area.

These are just two excellent alternative doctors I know of
http://www.painreleaseclinic.com/
And
Welcome to Pompa Health Solutions (http://www.pompahealthsolutions.com/dw.php?p=/overview/overview)

Take comfort in knowing you're not alone, just like a lot of us, the unknown makes us feel powerless, but we should never give up hope. Life can be such a struggle sometimes that makes you just want to scream - do so, in the forest somewhere - I do, and it helps a little.

You know I will be here for you for as long as I can. Will be in hospital again next Monday, but won't let them keep me more than three days, that should give them enough time to do the test they want so that I get documentation I need to be a 'cancer statistic' which will help me a little financially. After that, I don't plan on seeing the inside of a hospital ever again.

A lot has been taken away from me in life (riches to rags - and no fun at all - it's downright degrading, but I will not let anyone take my DIGNITY.

If you've got the strength, show your sister that she is worth a lot more than she thinks and keep up the encouragement.

Love,
Chery
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_3_16.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNfox000) Here is some love and encouragement from me to you.

I should be the one comforting you.. giving you love and encouragement. YOu are fighting for your life, defending your dignity and trying to find decent care... and you have time for me. I don't feel very worthy, but your smily faces with kisses, truly lift me up. Chery,
Deserve to be protected and taken care of, not worrying about all these medical issues alone. Is there some way that I can support you or help you, like you have helped me?
I think that if anyone has a right to scream it should be you. I will not complain or feel sorry for myself, especially knowing your struggle and positive outlook and energy for everyone around you.
I wish I could hold your hand and be with you and fight those doctors for you. I am with you in spirit and very thankful to have such special people in my life

LIKE YOU!!

I don't know what to tell you about your sister, but I hope she gets better soon. I will keep you and your sister in my prayers. God bless!

Here is one but it looks like they are into spiritualism stuff as well.

South Florida Herbalists-Plant Spirit Medicine Meetup Group (Miami, FL) - Meetup.com (http://herbalists.meetup.com/176/?gj=sj10)

This one looks like a good possibility


Sherry Kagan, L.Ac.
Health Dynamics
11221 S.W. 114 Lane Circle
Kendall, Florida 33176
305/252-1774
Fax: 305/663-1578
Specializing in women's disorders, herbal medicine, nutrition, homepathy and acupuncture

Absolutely Florida Alternative Medicine (http://funandsun.com/1tocf/inf/homeo.html)

Shattered, thanks for all your kind words on behalf of everyone. Because even when I see someone giving love to someone else I can also feel that love and it warms my heart. On the most part because that shows me that the world is not only how I have experienced it but it shows me there is good out there. It might not always be obvious or accessible, but it is out there. So that calms me.
And also when I see you and others being appreciative of what sufferers can offer, it reminds me even more how it's not always black and white.
It's really sad how money is the key to being helped sometimes like in your sister's case. That is one of the reasons I haven't been help, at least not by professional care or anything.
But you know not only does your sister need support but you need it too. I can also understand how you feel helpless to her. So you need us and your family and friends to keep you positive... of course you need yourself too. You are a strong individual that no matter if you haven't gone through some the things we've gone through, you have learned a lot from life and others. So there's no reason for you to feel unworthy of anything, you know that different people react differently and cope differently. You too are worthy of so much especially for your heart that is also big, trying to help your family... and trying to help us, and being appreciative. And much more there is no limit.
Thank you all.

Well, I haven't been on for awhile so I don't want anyone to think that I don't appreciate and need your thoughts, advice or ideas on how to deal with the issue of mental illness within family.. I think that so many people have opened my eyes to the internal struggle that they face in having to explain, justify and have others understand what they are going through. WE think its tough to know or love someone with mental illness, it is 10,000 times tougher for them. My dad explained it to me like this. When you look at someone who has a physical impairment or disability, we understand that they are limited in certain ways. We do not have the same patience, funding, research or understanding, when it comes to someone who is struggling within themselves, even though it causes impairment, disability, or an inability to connect with others or deal with life. This is where we need to wake up as a society and start bridging the gaps in our awareness. NOt everyone has the same symptoms, many medications are very new and we do not know what reprecussions they have, sometimes until too late, and most of the time it just covers up the symptoms and doesn't deal with the source of where it stems from.
We live in a society that wants fast and easy answers. WE want instant gratification. (at least in the U.S.) We cannot take something so delicate and misunderstood and put big generalizations on everyone. I have also learned that many people who struggle have helped themselves, more than anyone else has helped them. People also learn to deal with and manage their illnesses alone, because of the lack of support.
That is just plain sad. THat is not acceptable. I don't have any answers but that is perfectly clear to me.
MY question to all of you that have responded, or have read this and thought they have some insight to this, WHAT DO WE DO TO BRING AWARENESS and UNDERSTANDING TO THIS? HOW do we help? I know that being understanding and supportive does help.
I know that insisting on medication is not the best answer. I have looked into some of the websites mentioned.
I want to know how we can make alternative medicine and more natural approaches to this, more available to the public.
We are dealing with the largest giant of a money making machine, it is going to be like fighting Goliath... THE Pharmacutical companies are largely responsible for our doctors, hospitals and mental health care workers pushing drugs on everyone. THe kickbacks they get are hard to deny, and just look at t.v. during the day. Almost every commercial is a drug pushing ad about your symptoms and how to take a pill to make it go away... IT is pathetic.
I am going to do my part and try to bring awareness to that , but I need your help.

FINALLY, my reason for going off on this tyrade is... my mom's best friend of 40 years has a son of 21 who has been suffering from depression and anxiety since he was like 12. His parents have money, the best resources and treatment available and have fought around the clock to help him. He also had a serious drug problem with heroine. They got him sober and out of treatment. He went off his meds and then back on... WEll He committed suicide on Sunday.
He took an entire bottle of ZOLOFT and drank alcohol. His parents found him in his room with a note. He said he just couldn't take it anymore. I feel so sad, it brings up all these emotions and concerns about my sister. My parents are worried and so distraught. I know that there isn't anyone specific to blame, but it is another life gone because of MENTAL ILLNESS..
I love my sister, I support her, and I will never EVER give up on her.

I wanted all of you to know what is going on, because you have all been so honest and open on here. IT means the world to me, to have your deepest issues and emotions put out, to help and support my sister and I.
My friends, reach out and continue this... Let's do what we can to be aware, to understand, and to learn.

SS,
So very sorry for your loss, I am sure your mom's best friend's family must have been close to you through the years.

Yes, in fact my mom was friends with her before she had me. My mom was a nun in the convent and met her in her 3rd year as a postulate, when they were allowed to go to college.
She is an amazing woman and she tried for 10 Years to have a baby. THen she had three in a row. I was like 10 when her first was born. They are all incredibly bright and beautiful kids... Sebastian is the one who took his life. Beautiful Sebastian. His mother and father feel so defeated. My mother's heart is broken for her best friend.. I think it also makes her think of my sister.
Firm, thanks for responding... XO

It is so sad... I don't know what to say. But I guess now more than ever you'll probably be standing by your sister's side, knowing that she could sometime have a fragile moment and do something.
I stand with you in you trying to reach out to people so that society can be more aware of all this. It is something that just has to be done, it cannot keep going on in the dark. I know from my own experience that it really is hard to deal with these types of illnesses. One minute it seems like there might be hope, the next you just feel tired of life like this. Had I listened to those thoughts of 'i can't take it anymore' I wouldn't be here, I would've been long gone.
And yeah I support what you're saying, how America thinks that just by taking a pill it'll all be fine, but it just isn't. And until we get everything clear in our head, it'll keep going on. So whatever you want to do about this just say it and I'm here to support. Your sister needs you, we need you. Great idea.
So sorry about what happened to that young man.

I am so so sorry to hear that this as happened Shattered.

My thoughts, even people who apparently have the best treatment are still suffering and do not necessarily get the help they need.

Joe

I wanted to share with all of you what Sebastian's brother said about him at his memorial. I know that this thread is about my sister and her situation, but this has directly affected all of us. Our entire family is in awe of the love and support that have been put forth from everyone who knew him. My mother sent me this message from Sebastian's mom and I thought it would appropriate to share with all of you. I appreciate you reading these words and commenting on however you feel about it.

My mom had a terrible time telling my sister what happened. I think we were all fearing her reaction. However, I think she handled it as best as she could.
Here you go...
These were Eric's words at Sebastian's memorial service. He really knew him well and appreciated his uniqueness:

I think it is a testament to the richness of Sebastian's soul that despite his monumental suffering and heartaches, he could allow himself to celebrate the absurdities of day to day life. At the moment, the brunt of my sadness is that I know I will never meet anyone who could make me laugh as long and as hard as he could. But even though right now my heart is broken, Sebastian left me a wealth of smiles and laughs, enough to last me an eternity. This doesn't soften the blow, but allows me a pleasant, peaceful place to drift when the tempestuous waves of my family's griefs seem unconquorable.

I laugh when I think about us getting lost in GErmany together, where Sebastian suggested that we should just give up and start our lives anew as "German people." I smile when I become self-conscious aroung strangers or unfriendly acquaintances, because I know that if he were there, he would try to catch my attention, so he could make wickedly inappropriate yet wickedly funny face to ease my tension.The memories he gave me are more precious and unique than anything I could ever hope to own. I know that some of you never met him and for that I'm sorry. His astounding intellect and cutting wit were ony matched by his gentle nature and infinite generosity, all traits he owned modestly, and shared with complete strangers as well as loved ones. I am proud to have been his big brother, and also consider myself so fortunate to have had him as my best friend.

I would like to share something with you all, something that Sebastian had written. It is written in an unconventional poetic way and seems to be an untitled personal manifesto. I think it's the most beautiful thing I have ever read and to hear these words of his is to know the wonderful depth of Sebastian:

I am for now, no longer looking at the complications of existence (that I unintentionally choke myself with through voracious observation) as insurmountable, but as a challenge that I am ready to accept or that I will gladly accept when I have more independence.

I want to:
-read about the physical sciences and mathematics so I can undestand the properties of my restrictions and dream up ways to overcome them.

-stick with linguistics and learn as much as possible about our primary source of communication, apply rhetorics, expand my vocabulary to maximize self-expression through language.

-As for the intangible (yet somehow undetectable) blanks in this plane of consciousness, they will be filled, in as they traditonally are, through art and music.

My sister and I had a long conversation the other night about the difficulties of speaking of our brother in the past tense. How funny he was, how smart he was, how talented he was. But Hillary and I agreed that we will never refer to our love for Sebstian in the past tense. We love him now as we always did and always will

What his brother said about him really touched my heart. I wanted to share it with the people that also have a way of doing the same thing...
I wanted to add that although it is difficult for those of us who love or live with someone who suffers like Eric did, ultimately we see past those things and see those we care about as human beings with so many gifts to offer. Thank you to my friends who read this and share their thoughts. I care about everyone single one of you.

Hello ss. Firstly let me say how lucky your sister is to have someone like you, she is truly blessed. I to have had problems with my mental health since my early twenties, I'm now 34. I've read your thoughts and the thoughts of other in this post and there is some very good advice. While I know some people are very against the use of medication to treat mental disorders, speaking from experience I feel they have a very important place in help people to address their problems and learn to overcome then. Believe me I really thought that my life was over once and seriously considered taking my own life. Only with the intervention of medication was I able to get a grasp on reality and reclaim my life back. I now have a pretty normal life and a wonderful wife and children, all of which was incomprehensible back then.

I hope you can see that medication does have its place and saves lives.

I really wish you and you family well with everything

Disciple72, I want to thank you for thoughts and interest in this thread. It has been very difficult trying to find the right way to be supportive and helpful, without being overbearing and creating more dependency. I agree that medication can be very helpful. I know it is not easy to diagnose, or decide which medication is appropriate. I am glad that you were able to come so far, and have such a productive and fulfilling life. The difference in your situation is that you were open to using medication, and my sister isn't. She is so well read on antidepressants and has an overwhelming fear regarding the side effects. I also know that some medications, when stopped, cause suicidal thoughts in some people. Sebastian was a severely depressed and anxious young man. He was very bright, articulate and loving, but was also addicted to heroine. He was on medication and in and out of therapy and rehabs for years. He had just come home from his last about with rehab and seemed to be doing well. However, a couple days before he died, he starting drinking and his parents found him on the couch passed out. His mother told him that if he didn't stay sober or continue to fight for his life, he could not continue to stay in their house. He asked her, "ARe you sure about that?" She said yes. I am sure that conversation has resonated with her and made her wonder what she could have done different.

That is what is so hard, everyone around those struggling with some sort of mental issue, don't know the right thing to do or to say. I fought with my sister when she lived with me when I was pregnant with my son, and told her if she didn't like it, to leave. Two days later I got a call from Florida Medical Center that she was in ICU for a drug overdose. There is so much frustration, helplessness and guilt that seems to circulate amongst ourselves. I don't know how to take that and turn it into something positive and helpful. It was this thread that made me think that maybe by reaching out to others who suffer, that I may gain clarity and insight. I also want to respond in a way that is effective and helpful. I think in the past that my family and I have done too much, and that has caused resentment in my sister and sense of inferiority and feeling incapable. She doesn't feel like a grown up and doesn't have a sense of self. She relies on us too much and then hates herself and us to an extent because of it. I know she loves us, it is more a hatred for herself. IT feels we are spinning our wheels and I want to get out of this rut and move forward. I cannot change her or anyone else, but maybe by my growing, changing and understanding others like her and you.. maybe I can help make a difference and encourage her in a different way. Please continue to share, it means the world to me. I don't feel so alone in the fight, when others like you reach out and care.

Oh my Shattered. I am so so sorry for all that you have been going through. Sabastian's brother did an outstanding job remembering his brother. I think it is so important for you and your family to have an open line of communication with your sister over this. Which it sounds like you are doing. The most important thing is that she knows you are there. No matter how angry she gets, she knows that you will be there.

You are a strong strong lady. Please know you can count on us for support.

Thanks Tusc, just you coming over here and supporting me gives me strength. It has been a tough year for me all the way around.. but there are so many people who suffer so much more. I have to keep it in perspective. I try to stay focused and determined but sometimes I feel so weak. You guys give me hope when I start to feel down and defeated. So I reach out to you to find strength within... thanks my friend

Shattered, You are so wonderful, you have gone through so much, and yet still seem to get the kids in gear, take care of your daily responsibilities, your husband, your whole family, and yourself...
Sweet, Sebastians brother said some wonderful things, I was excited at how he made all his good shine through even though there is so much hurt. He will be remembered! Sebastian himself, (reading what he wrote) seems like an intelligent life, that got very lost. I am so sorry for your family and you, I wish there were an easy way to get past these things. I really do. Time really helps, as you already know that...
Love you...

I should be the one comforting you.. giving you love and encouragement. YOu are fighting for your life, defending your dignity and trying to find decent care... and you have time for me. I don't feel very worthy, but your smily faces with kisses, truly lift me up. Chery,
deserve to be protected and taken care of, not worrying about all these medical issues alone. Is there some way that I can support you or help you, like you have helped me?
I think that if anyone has a right to scream it should be you. I will not complain or feel sorry for myself, especially knowing your struggle and positive outlook and energy for everyone around you.
I wish I could hold your hand and be with you and fight those doctors for you. I am with you in spirit and very thankful to have such special people in my life

LIKE YOU!!!!

I don't know why I did not get a email notice for this subscription, but better late than never.
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and feelings. It's people like you that keep me from going nuts because I realize that all of us go through our personal 'hades' and learn to cope a lot better with friends like you.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_16.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNfox000)

Shatteredsoul..
I've just read post 36, and it gives me goosebumps.

Lately I have been wondering what Sebastian thought before he made the journey of his choice, because I too plan on controlling the way I make my final journey.

I feel, even though I have discourage suicide to the young, that if this is the only dignified way to take control and not let suffering be prolonged, that it is the right to choose for someone who has tried everything else, sought help, and lost the battle.

Not too many people like to get involved in the subjects of mental health, incurable cancer, continued life of helplessness and hopelessness. But it is something that we all think about what we would do when 'the time comes' to make a choice.

They way I look at it is: I respect and appreciate the help of people who care and want to help with all that is available.
Therefore, I want them to respect and appreciate the choice of how my life will end in dignity.

I'm sure that along this line, Sebastian was thinking the same thing, and that's why his family will always love and remember the best part of him.

I hope I am making sense here, I'm just so overwrought by what a lot of families and friends you know have gone through, and what you yourself deal with and manage.. that I hope my daughter will also be able to keep her memories of me in a special place and still love me.

Got to quit now, tears are blocking my vision, but I'm going to let them run..

As for help for millions worldwide... I've tried my best to convince doctors that antidepressants are not always the answer, but I feel that they don't want to get to the bottom of the real issues, it would take too much time and financially it is not beneficial to anyone but the pharmaceuticals. It is unfortunate.

It would be nice if the world would wake up here, but look where else it's sleeping - those issues are also Too Many To Count...

Bless You!

Chery,
You do everything with integrity and dignity and NO one will ever take that from you. YOu educate yourself and try to find the best possible way to manage your illness. I couldn't be more proud to know you, or to be your friend. All of your kind thoughts and heartfelt words totally hit me. I feel very blessed to be so fortunate to know so many amazing people as the ones I have met on here.
I will say that I am a little disappointed in the people who chose not to respond at all, when I thought they would be eager to share their views and perceptions on mental illness. This isn't a popularity contest and I wasn't looking for the most responses out of everyone, but some people are very well educated on this subject and still choose not to partake in such an important and critical discussion.
We as a society are faced with serious obstacles ahead. The funding to help those that are mentally ill has been drastically cut over the years, as have the salaries of those in the field to help people with mental illness.
My sister has some good days and some bad ones. More bad than good. She still can't make up her mind about most things and lives in a costant state of anxiety and depression. I try to stay positive and let her know that I love and support her, without trying to give her answers or solve her problems for her.
THAT IS WHAT ALL YOU WONDERFUL PEOPLE HAVE SHOWN ME... I cannot fix her or do it for her, but I can stand by her side and love her and try to be accepting of what I don't understand or agree with. It isn't always easy, but nothing in life worth doing is.
SO for everyone who has reached out to me, I say thank you and I appreciate each and everyone of your opinions, experiences and perspectives... I hope to keep this going, even if it isn't the most fun subject, I feel it is valuable because I am learning and growing from it..
LOVE YOU ALL! PEACE OUT

Hey stranger, you've been away for a while,Glad to see you back.

All who shared did so because they could,I don't know who else might have but I DID,, sniff sniff,I am somebody... :(... LOL JK

I understand your sisters up and downs, mine are back too, I feel for her, and to try to make up your mind when IT won't cooperate, that just sucks eggs.

It sounds like you have a great perspective towards the needs of your sis and your boundries, like to see that, that's growth:)

I'll help it along ( with your help... ;p)

Chat soon,OK?

Ken

I have missed you my friend... I am sorry it seems I have neglected my friends... your opinions and views matter so much to me.. I want you to know that.
EVEN in your darkest moments, you have the strength to reach out to others.. that is a gift my friend. It really is.
I am here and I would love to chat with you. ANYTIME

Chery,
You do everything with integrity and dignity and NO one will ever take that from you. YOu educate yourself and try to find the best possible way to manage your illness. I couldn't be more proud to know you, or to be your friend. All of your kind thoughts and heartfelt words totally hit me. I feel very blessed to be so fortunate to know so many amazing people as the ones I have met on here.
I will say that I am a little disappointed in the people who chose not to respond at all, when I thought they would be eager to share their views and perceptions on mental illness. This isn't a popularity contest and I wasn't looking for the most responses out of everyone, but some people are very well educated on this subject and still choose not to partake in such an important and critical discussion.
We as a society are faced with serious obstacles ahead. The funding to help those that are mentally ill has been drastically cut over the years, as have the salaries of those in the field to help people with mental illness.
My sister has some good days and some bad ones. More bad than good. She still can't make up her mind about most things and lives in a costant state of anxiety and depression. I try to stay positive and let her know that I love and support her, without trying to give her answers or solve her problems for her.
THAT IS WHAT ALL YOU WONDERFUL PEOPLE HAVE SHOWN ME... I cannot fix her or do it for her, but I can stand by her side and love her and try to be accepting of what I don't understand or agree with. It isn't always easy, but nothing in life worth doing is.
SO for everyone who has reached out to me, I say thank you and I appreciate each and everyone of your opinions, experiences and perspectives.... I hope to keep this going, even if it isn't the most fun subject, I feel it is valuable because I am learning and growing from it..
LOVE YOU ALL! PEACE OUT

Shattered... you know I will be here for you and those that come to see this thread do have something to say, but maybe they don't know yet how to say it... It is a touchy subject, and a lot of families live with this each day and still don't know how to cope.
Society does not support it as much because it's hard to 'pinpoint' the origin, and without that, a 'cure' is next to impossible, so they leave it up to the gods of pharmaceuticals.

Has anyone given a thought why there are so many 'messies' in this world now? This is another annex of mental illness that has not been brought out, just looked at, tolerated, and written off. My theory of this symptom is that those who are hopelessly looking for their place in life, collect all they can and don't want to give it up, even if it's trash, - it's theirs - and they are not willing to give up any part of it.. That is part of their helplessness and can be corrected once they get their identity back and support in confirmation that they have just as much right to exist as anyone else - in other words, just plain acceptance as an individual.
Through this theory of mine, I have been able to help at least two individuals return to a 'normal' existence and self-respect. After long talks with them, I have learned that when they feel totally alone, lonely, helpless and hopeless, they need something around them in such abundance to prove that they are here... to include all the things they collect. After encouraging a group of young neighbors to visit them, talk to them, and help them arrange their 'possessions' - the trash was thrown out, and replaced by the need of neatness to receive these new friends once a week. It made my heart just jump for joy to see this happen.
Fear, loneliness, hopelessness and lack of respect for yourself can do serious damage and cause depression beyond a doctor's treatment if the 'patient' does not even know why they changed.
So, now I feel that when I talk to a stranger who has these symptoms, get them to open up and come out, I at least let them know that I am one person in this world who cares enough to just approach them instead of ignore them for fear that it's 'catching'.

I hope that I am making sense here. It is not catching, but everybody is vulnerable in today's society. All it takes is lack of motivation to keep on existing in this world. Once that motivation is gone, everyone can become 'infected'..

Anyway, I now understand where unmotivated people go... and we all know it is not a fun place to be and takes a lot of help and time to re-enter the world of the 'living'.

Now we just need influential leaders to recognize the symptoms and make plans, because this is a worldwide infliction, just as HIV, Post Traumatic Depression and more...

Wishing there were someone out there finally WAKING UP! How about Dr. Phil - he seems to have a big audience on TV, saw a few of his shows here - and wish he would handle more serious issues, but who am I to suggest that...

Love,

Cheryhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_11_2.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYMXDE)

There are people active in saving animals, ecology, feeding the hungry, etc... where are the people saving a poor stressed, confused and lonely neighbor??

Every time I think I have considered all the angles, you bring more insight than I could imagine. I guess there are all kinds of problems in the world that everyone wants to help solve, but the issues involving the human mind are the most difficult to resolve. YES we do need influential people and leaders to step up, other than advocating more medicine. Medicine can help and is helpful but it doesn't help us figure out the origin of depression or mental illness. Why do so many people find themselves lonely, depressed and alienated from the rest of the world? What happens in our minds that takes us to such a desperate and helpless place. How do we reach out to others who surround themselves with things, or put barriers up so that they are unreachable? IN MY ENTIRE LIFE, I have never, ever considered myself depressed. I have never had any real earthquakes in my life to shake me out of my comfort zone and stability, UNTIL APRIL 21 2007.. the day my friends died in that plane crash.. I know that isn't what this thread is about and I am not going to change the dialogue for me.. I am simply saying that I succumbed to my sadness and disbelief and my little bubble I was living in, popped. I felt like I was falling into a deep hole of despair and I am still slowly digging my way out. I am not like I was before, I am forever changed, scarred and shattered... hence the shattered soul. BUT, I do have the ability to keep moving on, even though sometimes I really don't feel like it. I know the blessings and gifts in my life, far outweigh the sadness and the sorrow.

My point in saying this, is to say that for me, I think the origin of my sadness and depression is learning to anticipate, and handle the losses that I endure and the changes that occur and that are impending. I have never been great with change, but yet its inevitable.. and I do become attached to people quickly and losing them, no matter what the reason, always seems to take an emotional toll on me. I cannot speak for anyone else but I know that this is what I feel. I don't know how to embrace change and loss but I am slowly learning to accept what I cannot change. Having the tenacity and the courage to face what comes next, is a daily challenge, to say the least.
I don't always feel courageous, or tenacious and in fact today I feel rather sad for some reason. I don't really know why.. but I do.. I am strong for a while and then I somehow break down.. not as bad as my sister or countless others who are dealing with much more severe issues and illnesses, but none the less my heart hurts today.. and I am sharing with all of you that I am so completely imperfect and lost at times that I don't even know which way to take the next step, let alone the right path to take. Rationally I know that my purpose is to find a balance between helping others who need it and helping myself in order to grow and evolve spiritually and live out my purpose.. sometimes its just easier helping everyone else. I hope that someone out there understands my rambling because I don't even know if what I am writing makes sense...
I do wish there was someone out there to lead and help this nation in a way out of this mentally tortuous existence.. I think that if we only had to worry about surviving and not all this other petty sh!t, maybe we wouldn't have the time or the energy to be depressed.. but that is not how we live. WE are overindulged, oversaturated and we overanalyze everything that happens.. Maybe that is where we have gone wrong.. This is where the ones on the streets who are homeless maybe have it better than we do. They aren't living for material things, they aren't trying to keep up with the joneses and they aren't concerened about appearances or frivolous matters as looking young and perfect. Maybe we are the ones that need to learn from them.. Live simple.. stop looking for perfection and status and achievement but accepting who we are for what we are.. Completely and utterly flawed human beings.. maybe within that notion we can begin to be at peace??

If she put herself into the care of professionals once. Help her to do it again. Not helping because she can do it for herself is correct for children, or certain situations, but not this one. Your sister wants to be helped. Help her.

Shattered..
Every time I think that I am alone in some of my views on life, boom! You again confirm that I am not and that we have more in common than just this forum.

In retrospect, my recovered mental state (from childhood trauma and a bad marriage, etc.) changed drastically again when I lost a lot of friends and co-workers on September 11th. There were at least 14 on the lists from the Pentagon and Towers, I received from other friends. I cried, mourned, and even flew over on a scheduled visit to my brother in Las Vegas and passed my exams 8 days later. But when I returned to Germany, my existence and routine workload just was not the same anymore. It took a long time to get back to 'normal' because of the impact of the loss and helplessness. Also, knowing that the entire world would never be the same brought out newer fears in me. I thought that through therapy and strength things would eventually give me my past life back. But that never happened, and never will, because as an individual I cannot do anything to prevent it from getting worse or even try to mend some of the damage that is irreversible.


So, now take you and me... and then think of all the other countless individuals who have gone through similar 'Post Traumatic Stress'.. we can glean a bit of what is happening to all of us in some way. There is no way we can just go along life, and 'shrug' off all that has happened, but we do have to somehow keep going. Knowing and seeing what the 'psychy' can do and experiencing it in person makes me understand others a lot more, but as you said, we can only do so much to help - without being totally drained ourselves.


That is also why I cannot understand why the leaders of this world don't openly admit they see this too and want to do something about it...


Before going further, I think I'll leave it at this point and thank you for starting this thread, as I am sure that it has an impact on the future somehow. I myself might not live to experience a change in 'humanity' vs. human resources in abundance, but I do pray that things will change for the better soon.


P.S. I do understand your 'rambling' and know you can understand mine..
Lots of love and hugs to you and yours!

I am not like I was before, I am forever changed, scarred and shattered... hence the shattered soul. BUT, I do have the ability to keep moving on, even though sometimes I really don't feel like it. I know the blessings and gifts in my life, far outweigh the sadness and the sorrow.

My point in saying this, is to say that for me, I think the origin of my sadness and depression is learning to anticipate, and handle the losses that I endure and the changes that occur and that are impending. I have never been great with change, but yet its inevitable.. and I do become attached to people quickly and losing them, no matter what the reason, always seems to take an emotional toll on me.


I thought that through therapy and strength things would eventually give me my past life back. But that never happened, and never will, because as an individual I cannot do anything to prevent it from getting worse or even try to mend some of the damage that is irreversible.
I'm still working on this, myself. Realizing that nothing can "give me my past life back". Glimmers of understanding that through the experience of profound loss, I have "outgrown" my past life, and it wouldn't fit me now, even if I did get it back. Slowly releasing my attachment to it, turning to face forward. Sometimes, it feels like a "long, hard slog".

That really is true isn't is? Nothing can be as it was, but with patience and courage we move forward... not really understanding how we got where we are but knowing we have to face what is up ahead.
Life throws so many punches, you wonder when are you going to just get knocked the f@ck out?? I think facing the tough stuff doesn't get easier, we just learn to manage a little better with each new challenge or disaster..
My best friend of 28 years called me yesterday to tell me her step dad committed suicide and her mother found him hanging in the garage. HE had just went off his meds for depression, about a week ago.
SOMETHING IS VERY VERY WRONG HERE>... YEs we are going to be depressed and screwed up, that is normal... but taking drugs for every single ailment, that we don't even know the true long term effects.. IT JUST PLAIN DANGEROUS>. I know some people have no choice but damn... another person dead, killing themselves AFTER they go off their medication because the friggin doctor says they will be fine. HOW does this happen over and over and over and over?? CAN someone please tell me... Why

Oh Shattered I wish I could tell you why. It might ease the pain and save some lives. I believe that we as a society over medicate, but yet some that need it the most don't have the money to buy their medications. It is just so sad.

I honestly believe that the doctors don't know what they are doing most of the time. They all work on trial and error, and ruling out different symptoms, then studying similar cases - but to no avail.

The mind is a place that can be identified to outerspace and sends so many divert signals that it is hard to interpret.

Look at the 'father' of psychiatry.. Siggi Freud used a lot of mind-altering drugs himself.. maybe that's why he could go deeper into that space and understand it a little better. I'm not saying that one has to be on drugs to understand it all, but some drugs help stabilize some symptoms - but there is no known cure..

Leaving you with that in mind and wishing you and yours all the best.

Love,
Chery

Hi SS,

I have been reading this thread, on and off for weeks, sometimes it's nice to be a sideliner.

Chery is right about the pharmaceutical companies need for money, need for more money... etc,and how they justify it for' Further research' 'For the betterment of mankind'

Where are we in this soup?
Improperly cared for and diagnosed incorrectly,over medicated, or not medicated due to our own wants/needs.

You had a comment earlier in this post about some of us who need the drugs but the long term effects are unknown, I could write a novel about that one:(

Another comment was an eye opener about therapists needing to be on the level with their patients( mine is bi-polar) we relate well enough(although she being Female,doesn't make it as close as I would like)

Could Freud had been on the right track with the necessity for the pharmaceutical companies need to treat the chemically imbalanced mind, not the mentally stable one?

Oh well, I am simply checking in on this thread in hopes you and yours are doing well:)

Chat soon!

Ken

Hi Ken,
Its been a f@cked up week for me. Its hard to come on here when I don't feel happy and chipper and able to give advice. My sister is staying with me after getting into a physical dispute with her husband. My mom went up and got her and after two days, she couldn't handle having her. My mom's blood pressure is through the roof and I think her nerves about everything are causing anxiety. My sister's relationship with her is tense, to say the least. Too dependent upon her, not wanting to be a burden, and frustrated for all the ways she couldn't be there for her growing up, and because it really bothers her that my mom is gay. Well, we were on our way to the park last night with her baby who fell asleep. She didn't feel I was being very sympathetic to her complaining about how mom ruined her life and on and on about how her life is so terrible. Usually I am and I try not to get into any arguments. I walk on egg shells a lot with her. Well, I just couldn't do it. I was very honest and I told her she needs to stop blaming everyone else, start making decisions for herself and depending on us, if we aren't helping her become independent. Along with some other things I said, I really pissed her off I guess. She got out of the car and was screaming at the top of her lungs, crying and cursing, running around the parking the lot. I told her she needed to calm the F down and get herself together. I said you have a baby and you are a grown up. NO one should have the power to get you that upset. I told her that she chose to get married to that prick and give up on herself and that she needs to help herself because we all can't continue to do it for her. She doesn't work, she doesn't have a car now because she didn't get it fixed and now has no place to go. I want to help and I want to be supportive but I think some tough love is in order here. I wish I could explain it all but I have to get the kids ready for school and get to work. She ran off screaming like someone shot her and then came back and told me to take her back to her husbands house. I said I am not taking you there and maybe you should do it yourself. I didn't leave her there. I waited awhile and then she found me. She calmed down and apologized and actually was thankful and understanding of some of the things I said. I also said I was sorry for coming off like I did. Maybe my tone was harsh but I just have so little energy right now to deal with this. I wish my mother was more equipped to handle her. I know now I have to step up... oh boy.. what will happen next? I surely don't have a friggin clue...
HEllo all and thanks for checking in on this.. I think it may get worse before it ever gets any better. Love to you guys.

Shattered,
It sounds to me like you did the right thing. Sometimes we need someone to tell us the way it is before we will actually open our eyes. She obviously trusts you or else she would not have come back looking for you after her rant. You are a wonderfully caring sister remember that as times get tough. I wish your sister some peace as she sorts out her life, and you the patience and understanding to help her.

Hi Hon--

Sounds like you've got a bull by the horns there. Actually, hard as it may have been to live through, from my safe distance it sounds like something necessary and valuable happened. How tough to make the love, is the hard part, I know. You just have to find your own best self, and act from there. General principles are easy. Specific choices in particular situations are hard. I'll bear you in mind as I feed my cows in the freezing rain this morning.

--Cowboy

AHHH Tusc, patience and understanding seems to come so much easier with friends than it does with family, although I am not entirely sure why that is... I thank you for the encouragement and the advice. IT is nice to hear from you. I am sorry I can't jump in member discussions right now... its just a difficult time. So, thanks for checking in on me. You are always thoughtful like that.
Cowboy... I am glad you are here. I am having a really tough time and it is nice to know you are thinking of me. Even if you have to stand in the freezing rain... I do love the cows and they are so peaceful. Sometimes I think I should trade this crazy suburbia lifestyle for one like yours. I just don't know if I could handle as well as you do. Yes, the specific choices seem to be the most difficult. I find myself wanting to to help her find solutions, but she has to CHOOSE it.. instead of aimlessy wandering from one place to another and thinking something will change. I actually told her I think she should try to go on her own and stay at a women's shelter or something. Get herself some assistance, counseling and a fresh start, entirely made by her. WE pave the way, pay the way, guide her but we are never really helping her. Her learned helplessness is partly our family's fault, along with being lazy and not motivated and depressed. YET she says she wants to do all sorts of things, but never really does anything. She tells me I don't know how hard its been on her, and living in squalor and having nothing. BUT she does nothing to change the situation or better herself. Now my father bought her a plane ticket to come stay with him in Wyoming in some remote little town of 5,000 people. I don't really know what that will do for her. I told both of them that. My dad also gave her money for Christmas and she wants to spend $60.00 to get her hair cut, but doesn't have a pot to piss in. She makes no plan or has any idea of what to do with her money but will be frivolous with it. I told her that my friend can and would cut her hair for free, (Since she chopped it all off to a bob after her husband and her got into a fight.) IT was to the middle of her back. I said just let her fix it for you. She thinks that paying someone who she knows will do a good job is a better idea and wasting money that she doesn't have to waste, is somehow a good idea. So my mom is going to drive her thirty minutes from my house to do that on Wednesday. Do you see what I am dealing with here?? I don't mean to complain but GOSH~~!! I am just so confused because part of me wanted to leave her standing there acting like a complete crazy person but then I thought, what about the baby? I just don't know anymore what the right thing to say or do is and I am not sure I will ever know. I keep thinking if I do this, or do that, it will finally sink in, the lightbulb will go on and everything will get better, but it doesn't. I don't want her to be this way forever...
Cowboy, I am thinking of you too.. Tusc XOXOXOXOXOX Thanks to both of you... I feel very overwhelmed, sad, helpless, frustrated, confused and F@CKING EXHAUSTED!!

Shattered,
It sounds to me like you did the right thing. Sometimes we need someone to tell us the way it is before we will actually open our eyes. She obviously trusts you or else she would not have come back looking for you after her rant. You are a wonderfully caring sister remember that as times get tough. I wish your sister some peace as she sorts out her life, and you the patience and understanding to help her.

I'm adding to this post and including my emotional support all the way dear.
You are doing the best you can under the circumstances and you certainly have all my love and best wishes.

Your sister has a lot of past crap to work on, she should not blame your mom's choice of lifestyle for her turmoil, that's absolute BS if you ask me. There must have been something worse that she is suppressing.
Hang in there dear.. and you know we are here for you when you need to express yourself in any form.

Hugs,

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_16.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYMXDE)

I feel very overwhelmed, sad, helpless, frustrated, confused and F@CKING EXHAUSTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is a physical and emotional drain on you because you want to do the right thing... But it's not your job.. it is her's! If she continues to do the 'poor me' bit, and is not willing to seek professional help, you need to put your foot down.

It's like with alcoholics.. they either want to quit, or don't. If they don't the best thing to do for them is to buy them a bottle and tell them to drink it all down to speed the suicide process up.

Suggesting a shelter was a good idea, and she should think about it or she will alianate herself from the entire family. Tell your mom not to take the blame for it all, she tried her best, and your sister is now a grown woman who can think on her own and make her own choices.

Maybe you might have to plan together and both (you and mom) be strong enough to tell her that she either seeks help or she's totally on her own.. she might need that shock to get her moving.. and it will be hard for you to do, but might be necessary. Just a thought..

The rest of your family deserves peace and support too and it's time she understands that she is not the 'center point' of everything just because she is having problems. Everyone has problems..

Again, all the best hon!

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_12_133.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYMXDE)

Chery, wonderfully said. I wonder if Mom and Dad can do it? I hope they can, shattered, I think Chery has the right idea here. I love you sweet, hoping the best for you! AND your family!

You make a very valid point Chery.. I really think we should all let her hit the bottom in a way and climb herself out of it. HOWEVER, the two year old child is part of this and it is hard for us to let him be in this situation.. I think this is why everyone continues to enable her in some way. ALSO, now my father has bought her a plane ticket, he thinks that if she goes there (AGAIN) that she will have time to get herself together and make a life for herself there. I don't think it will happen any easier there, than it will here because she will be staying with my dad. THAT is not the best scenario because after a couple days, they will be fighting also and Kirsta won't want to do or hear what he says.. or something will erupt. I just know it.. She may realize and sense the urgency in making choices but never actually chooses anything. The last time she lived with me, she attempted suicide after we got into a fight. (This was before her child was born) When she came back to stay with me after, I told her she must stay on medication, go to therapy and work, if she wanted to live at my house. It didn't last. The therapists don't last, the psychiatrist doesn't last and she goes back to live with her husband that she is verbally and physically abusive with.. as he is back to her. She may be bipolar, I don't know. BUT now that she will be leaving Saturday I don't know if that will just set her back even more. She could just as well start over here and begin by finding a job at a daycare so that her son would also be taken care of. WHY DOES EVERYONE ELSE SEEM TO KNOW WHAT TO DO AND HOW SHE CAN MAKE IT BETTER BUT SHE CAN'T?? Why is it always the SAME Thing over and over?? Right now she is probably at my house overanalyzing her situation and sitting there immobilized and frustrated but not actually doing anything... sometimes I think I am losing my mind over this so thanks to all you people who keep me somewhat level headed and sane..
CHeRI you are a true friend and with all of your health issues, insurance problems, chronic pain, and overcoming severe addiction and tragedy, I SAY... you are amazing and I wish my sister could muster up the strength, just one ounce that you have to become resourceful and resilient and start helping herself...
YES she doesn't see past her own problems and pain and does think she is the center point of everything but will say she doesn't want to be that way. IT would almost be easier to have her be an alcoholic because then I could put her in a rehab.. well you know what I mean... I do appreciate what you say and you are very right about it all...
TUSC... people like you and Chery make the world a better place. YOU REALLY DO

Shattered, I forgot about the two year old, it really does change the outlook and outcome of this. I know your heart is hurting here. It isn't her... it is her off the meds, it is her out of the therapy, it isn't her that won't take what you are saying in consideration sweet... Maybe it is just time to say no to her... even with the baby, maybe it will help her to get her Chit together and take better care of herself so she can take good care of him! Shattered, I just know this is killing you, I am sorry to hear it. I love you!

Honey, it's BECAUSE of that little two-year old that she needs a Kick.. She needs to wake up and recognize her responsibility or have it taken away from her. You can apply for custody if the therapists she has broken with support you. And the physicians who treated her concur that she broke off her meds on her own.. Also if it is known that she has been a victim of spouse abuse. All of these a valid reasons for any social worker to start a case and transfer temporary custody over to another family member.

You might just have to threaten her with this scenario to get her to do something, or might actually have to initiate the action.. depending on how strongly you think you might have to act.

Right now, though you probably will have to wait until her and dad get it together - which from the sound of it will not last long. Then take action after talking with all others concerned. I think that young baby needs every chance in life - even if his mom has to be forced to recognize and accept her responsibilities.

It all sounds drastic, but compared to what you are going through due to her, it might be something to seriously think about.

Again, all my love and support.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_16.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYMXDE)

I have seriously considered doing that... I guess I am and all of us are too personally involved and if we take away her son. We are afraid of what will happen.. but it isn't wise to base our choices or decisions on fear. WE are deathly afraid of making the wrong move and maybe she should lose her son... but I guess what comes after that is frightening.. I think we are too closely involved and have created a dependency that is unhealthy and difficult to stop... all of these scenarios together would be enough to take her child but it has happened over a period of a few years and not in the past couple years has she taken any medication.. but the abuse at home is definitely an ongoing thing.


Anyone remember Lilo and Stitch? No one gets left behind... its all I keep thinking... never give up on family... no one gets left behind...

I have seriously considered doing that... I guess I am and all of us are too personally involved and if we take away her son. We are afraid of what will happen.. but it isn't wise to base our choices or decisions on fear. WE are deathly afraid of making the wrong move and maybe she should lose her son.... but I guess what comes after that is frightening.. I think we are too closely involved and have created a dependency that is unhealthy and difficult to stop... all of these scenarios together would be enough to take her child but it has happened over a period of a few years and not in the past couple years has she taken any medication.. but the abuse at home is definitely an ongoing thing.


anyone remember Lilo and Stitch?? No one gets left behind... its all I keep thinking....never give up on family.... no one gets left behind...

Yes, I watch Lilo & Stitch too. But bebies would not learn how to walk if you constantly held them in fear they might fall. They fall and hurt here and there, bump their heads, and get scabs on their knees - it's all a part of learning how to balance.

Your sister needs to re-learn how to balance her life or she will endanger not only herself but her child.

If she wants to go back to her abusive husband, are you going to stand between them when he wants to hit her? The only thing you can do is to let her go, let it happen and maybe be there to pick up the pieces - but she has to learn to stop going back to wanting punishment - from any direction - she's seeking a way of self-destruction and is resentfull of help and interference. Have you asked her what kind of mother she wants to be - what she sees in her baby's future? Can she clearly answer this question?
Did she tell you why she feels unworthy of a happy life? Gosh, hon, I wish I could be there and have a heart to heart with her to help you. My heart aches to see you go through this.

Chery, I wish I could answer your questions with complete faith in my understanding, but to be quite honest, I really don't know why she is the way is, or why she continues to choose the same path. To be quite frank, she is abusive herself and I think her husband has become abusive in response to her. She doesn't have any awareness of any other perception but her own. She thinks that the way she sees it, is the way it is. Even if she is way off. She has no way of managing her anger or any other feelings. She gets overwhelming with anxiety and worries about the stupidest crap but can't make a decision about day to day things that make sense to everyone else.
JUST AN UPDATE! She left Saturday to go stay with my father in Wyoming. I don't see how things are going to be any different there. My husband and I told her to get a job, find daycare for her son and we would help her get an efficiency to get her on her OWN! Although she had already gotten plane tickets from my dad to go there. IT is the middle of winter, in a small town of 5,000 and she will be stuck in the house with my dad and her two year old. THAT Is a disaster waiting to happen. I am sure my dad will start bugging her and asking her questions about what she will do next and then she will get defensive and angry and BAM she will be ready to leave again.
I thought the best idea would be to let her figure it out, on her own, by herself and decide how to dig her way out. I know it is tough to let her do that with a baby but we cannot continue to cripple her. SHe will not get better living with any of us and we are too close to her to really be helpful. WE had our own fight about this and although she got very violent and angry, she did eventually think I was right about some of it. She felt glad that I actually believed she was capable of taking care of herself. I do believe in her but until she does something different, she will just go back to what she always does, NOTHING!! Then, go back to the unhappy, unfulfilled, abusive marriage, caused by BOTH of them... THAT Is not what I want to see happen. Yet I had to surrender any control because I can't change her life for her. I wish THere was something I could do to make her see.. she says I Can't change my life... I say YES YOU CAN.. but she has to believe it, want it and choose differently. HOW I WISH she could have a happy life.. I told her no one made you get married, or give up on yourself, or stop you from working, or make you have a child. YOU CHOSE IT and you are responsible for that and stop complaining about what mom did or didn't do for you, to you or whatever... EVERYONE has issues with their parents, BUT AT SOME point, we have to decide to live differently and stop blaming other people for our problems or what we haven't accomplished. DOES that mean I don't ever feel slighted from my parents, NO but I am too busy to worry about it constantly!! She doesn't keep herself busy enough so therefore she has too much time on her hands to worry and stay immobilized. She needs to work, be productive and start focusing on planning and preparing for her future instead of thinking her life is over. OH how I want that for her!!
Well, that is the latest and greatest... any thoughts, comments or anything you want to share from your own perspective?? I am all ears... or eyes... or whatever... you know what I mean! LOL xoxo and happy holidays to all!!

Sweetheart, I am going to be a little blunt here... YOU need to take some off time from her - you deserve to enjoy the holidays with your loved ones without any stress from the inevitable. It is not your fault that she turned out the way she is, not your fault that she is unhappy or angry at the world. I wish I were there to hold you and help you gain some strength to say NO to any other 'outside' influence and the torture you are going through on the inside. Please promise me that you will at least try to focus on your family in your home and in your heart. There is always time for stress again - but only if you give yourself a chance to re-group.
I wish this peace for you with all my heart dear, and hope that you can really 'shut off', clear that full plate, and fill it with cookies to experience some of the delicious parts of life.
Bless you and happy holidays hon. My thoughts are with you.
I know people need a certain amount of sorrow to feel empathy for others, but enough is enough for you right now... so please get cuddled and be happy for as long as it lasts.
Love,
Chery.
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_16.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYMXDE)Am sending you Virtual Hugs and a valium... hope they help a little.

JUST AN UPDATE!! She left Saturday to go stay with my father in Wyoming. I don't see how things are going to be any different there.
Things may not be different in Wyoming, but they can be different where you are. Chery's right, hon.

YOU need to take some off time from her - you deserve to enjoy the holidays with your loved ones
You've been carrying too much weight lately, so cheers to your Dad for taking his turn.

Please get back to living your life for you now... and get a break from everyone else's problems... How I wish the same thing for you that you do for your sister. I wish you could live your life and keep being productive, without having to be too much into your sisters or anyone else's life. To be happy and joyful... of course I know that it's hard, and I know you know too... but for now why don't you just try to let it all go... and like Chery said enjoy your holidays with your own family. Don't miss out on special moments just for worrying about other problems which aren't your own. I know that as a sister you might feel a certain commitment, plus you love her and everything but it really isn't your obligation. You have an obligation which is the family you've created, now that's your obligation.
I'm sorry don't want to sound mean or anything. It worries me the way you have been feeling so frustrated even more than what your sister could worry me. She has to start thinking as if all she had was her son and her. Giving her too much attention is only feeding the problem and thus never getting her any independency... you know that already.
Well Happy Holidays to all. And from my heart to you Shatteredsoul... love you.

WELL, I guess I seem a little stressed huh? LOL Ok I think you are all right.. I do need a break, even if I know there is something I could do more, or better, or different. It's THE FREAKIN HOLIDAYS!! I don't mean to be such a BAH HUMBUG!! I am so glad you guys are still listening to my ranting and raving. I know I can be a handful myself.
THANK YOU all soooo much.. CHery, Cowboy, and METERRE, I love you all and you have been great friends to me since the beginning. Believe it or not, you do help me and I do feel all the virtual hugs and the compassion, even if we are on the computer... I am very blessed to know each and everyone on here and I am going to take the heartfelt advice...
I am very much looking forward to Friday.. my husband and I got tickets to Mickey's Very MERRY Christmas party at Magic Kingdom and we are surprising the kids!! I am very excited and I am going to put all my troubles by the wayside for now... I need to enjoy the moments with my family YOU are right about that!! I am going to bake cookies this weekend and I have all next week off to hang out with them.. I promise I will follow the doctor's orders of REST and RELAXATION with the family!! LOL
I hope all of you will be spending holidays with those you love and enjoying yourselves as well. I am thinking of you guys and gals!! MY love and thoughts to you toooo!!

May we all be at peace this holiday season, just a little glimmer of joy in our hearts will go a long way this year... I am joyful and excited for SANTA!! LOL LOL I know him!!

Couldn't agree more and be more happier for you. You and your family deserve stress free Holidays. Let's give it up for Shatteredsoul! And hope all her worries and troubles and that holding out her hand for the needy pays off this season. And Merry Christmas... to all.

********UPDATE************
My sister stays in one spot like BRITNEY SPEARS... the rolling stone of a sister wants to come back AGAIN and hasn't done sh!T but worry and stay immobilized!!
She has her mood swings, her erradic drives to NOWHERE and continues to push her family away.. SOUND FAMILIAR... yeah except my sister isn't famous, rich or dependent upon pills. SHE IS JUST off her rocker.. I know that sounds mean but its almost so tragic that I have to make jokes. SHE hasn't EVEN been gone three weeks and is ready to turn around and go back to the husband that she abuses and who abuses her. SOUNDS INTELLIGENT RIGHt? WRONG.. well he has been making her feel guilty for leaving and she thinks going back is the right thing... O<M<G it's the farthest thing from the truth... SHe stays with a family member then leaves constantly to drive around and do NOTHING and now I am wondering WHAT SHOULD I DO.. the answer is NOTHING I know it BOY, I DO KNOW it.. OH while she has been gone, the baby fell and got stitches in his forehead, it wasn't anyone's fault but GEEZ!!
SHE HASN'T found a job, and now we are back to square one...

I WISH SHE WOULD GET PROFESSIONAL HELP, WHY CAN'T Dr. PHIL show up on my sister's doorstep.. maybe he could make her see the light, maybe not..

ON ANOTHER note... I had a great week with my family, thank you all for you wonderful and kind thoughts, I have been thinking of all of you!! XOXOXOXOXO I love you METERRE and CHERY!!

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!! I have missed you guys. WHEW I am glad the holidays are over.. they were good but a little overwhelming to say the least...

Oh Shattered, you have come so far with this. You really have a good head on your shoulders! Your sister is going to do what she is going to do and until she decides to make the "right" choices, it will never change. You get to choose whether you supply her with help or not. Maybe it is time you all get together without her and promise each other no-contact till she gets it in her head. I am happy to see you are enjoying your family! That makes me smile! Hugs and lots a love headed your way. :)

Shattered we missed you... or I did anyway... I'm really glad to hear you had good times on these Holidays, you and your family deserved it. Now about your sister... ok so have you ever tried writing to Dr. Phil?? Perhaps how things are going with her it could be worth it... maybe you could even express your concern with mental illness and medications. I don't know but I would be getting ready to either try anything including the last resort... or just forget about it and not bother. And just leave her on her own so she can come into consciousness and think about her and her kids. And like Startover said... some unity could be helpful.
Hey I hope you are able to come on a bit more frequently but even if not, I am always thinking of you and hoping you and your family are all right. This year will bring better things for you don't worry.

Shattered,
I have been waiting for an update on how the holidays went and how things were with you. It sounds like your sister is continuing down her path of destruction and unfortunately there is not a lot you can do. I think that Start's suggestion of unity is a great one. Think of it like parenting, parents need to be consistent - mom says no cookies, dad says no cookies that is it. Maybe that is the way that your family needs to be with your sister.

I am so glad that you made it through the holidays and things went well. Hang in there. You are a strong wonderful person. Always remember that!

Does anyone know anything about Shatteredsoul? I'm really wondering how she's doing.

Does anyone know anything about Shatteredsoul? I'm really wondering how she's doing.


Me too, I am calling her right now. :D

EDIT::::::::
She is busy and good, Super Woman will be here soon to update! LOL
Woo Hoo

Me too, I am calling her right now. :D

EDIT::::::::
She is busy and good, Super Woman will be here soon to update! LOL
Woo Hoo
Thank you startover22, I am also concerned and would like to hear how she is doing, as well as her sis too!

Thank you startover22, I am also concerned and would like to hear how she is doing, as well as her sis too!

KBC, it is nice to see you sweet! Hope you are great too!;)

I had a rough day yesterday, My first seizure in 35 years,been weak and queasy since,just taking it easy for a while and looking for a few posts I can respond to... :)

Hope SS is online soon!

KBC

I hope you are OK KBC.

I hope you are OK KBC.
Yes I am so far, thank you Greg

The docs increased my meds 1/5 again till we can get a handle on what happened to trigger something that hasn't happened to me for 35 years.

I'll be around for a while yet...

KBC

GOSH, I feel so loved!! I have missed all of you so darn much. I couldn't get on my computer all day and now I want to chat and not everyone is here... well I will be on in the morning FOR SURE for whoever I don't get to talk to now. I have a few minutes and then I will have to pick up Amber from dance.
WHEW KEN, you make a me a little nervous hearing about your situation. I hope it is under control and no more seizures for you, that has got to be scary I am sure. What to do.. I guess hope the meds work and be patient. NOT easy I am sure. My thoughts are with you!

METERRE and STARTOVER I love you guys! GALS you know what I mean. I have been so busy lately but always thinking of all of my friends on here... whether they know it or not!

As for my sis, well more of the same to tell you the truth. She is still in Wyoming, now she wants to come home. Still not working, not on meds, not doing much of anything and Can't MAKE UP HER MIND on what to do, except to move back to where she was with her husband who she doesn't want to be with or get along with. ITS really rather frustrating, always dealing with the same issues and never getting a different result.

HOWEVER< I should be thankful for the fact that my dad is trying his best to help her, even though it doesn't do any good. My mom is trying to distance herself more and not do things for her or try to make decisions for her. ITs hard to step back and watch someone do nothing and know nothing you do can make it any different or better.

I wish I could change it, I really do... however... Hope everyone is doing well and that you know how much I love and miss all of you!! I will update more for whoever is interested. Thanks for checking on me... xoxo

Ahh, the lost family member is finally found, alive and kicking :)

Great to hear from you SS, it has been too long, hope your holidays were great and remember,, Saturday is GROUNDHOG DAY!!

Ken

Well that was quite a while you took from writing to us. I felt forgotten and lonely... kidding. I'm so glad to hear from you and that you are OK. As KBC said I also hope your holidays went great and that you forgot about your problems for a bit and enjoyed them.
So I guess same ol' with your sister huh, well don't worry maybe one of these days hopefully she'll have a flash of reality or responsibility or something that can help her finally make a decision and work towards it mostly on her own. No one really just becomes independent from one day to the next. I think we all know that. A person with any mental health problems is always in need of some sort of support. I know that by experience, I still keep having my ups and downs with my depression... but I'm trying to work through it.
Anyway glad to have you back and we'll expect your input and update to this situation and yours too.

I guess it is different for all of us.. the way we deal with our emotions, or how we relate to others in relationships. Our coping skills, our life experiences and our views on how inadequate we are, tend to be all factors in how see ourselves and how we feel about who we are. I know I am not perfect and I have days where I feel so sad and lonely and I don't even know why.. I have days where I feel like life couldn't be better and I am so blessed and happy to be here.. I'm guessing that is normal. I don't know what its like to have a constant feeling of failure, impending doom or depression all around me for months and years... that just isn't something I could handle. I push all my negative thoughts, issues and awareness of sadness away and I focus on what is in front of me. If I sat and relished in all the mistakes I make, the poor paths I have chosen, or all the things that could go wrong, or are wrong, at any moment, I would be depressed. On some level I am more capable than my sister, and that is why I can relate to her feeling of frustration. She doesn't want to feel the way she does and yet she can't change it..
METERRE, you say you have your ups and downs, the downs are much harder to get through than the ups.. I don't know how you work through it and you don't even get the support of your family. Sometimes self reliance is a good thing. My sister doesn't have that.. My dad and mom love her so much but they never really help her the way she needs to be helped, me either to tell you the truth. The best thing for us to do would be o let her be homeless and find her way to being productive and happy and healthy.. but who can do that to her when she has a small child that needs stability and a safe home environment.
The sad thing is... she just won't get diagnosed. I understand the frustration that puts on my parents. We are very limited as to how we can help her. She has to hit rock bottom I think.. although it seems she has been at rock bottom for some time now..
There really isn't any hope for us to change anything. We aren't wealthy, we don't have the power or the means to put her in a facility and she is an adult who is capable of saying she doesn't want or need help.
In the mean time... I think she will be coming back to Florida very soon. I don't know what will happen then because my mom won't let her live with her and I don't know if I should let her move back in.

******* The sad thing is no matter how much money or status or how many people love you.. if you don't love and accept yourself for all that you are, all that you've done and believe in the goodness of you... nothing can save you but your love of self from within... its so simple, yet so difficult to achieve. I wish my love would fill the emptiness and lonliness and despair.. I wish I could make so she loved herself. She doesn't. That is just sad...
So if I can say anything to anyone out there, or to my beloved friends... learn to love and accept yourself, NO MATTER WHAT.. that is the toughest battle of all. The battle within

You are so right. Loving yourself is the toughest thing. See there is where I wish I could be like you in some way. To accept myself, and to be able to push all those negative thoughts away. That's where I really admire you, your strength. Or ability to do that. Perhaps if we all worked at it we would fight depression just like you do.
So again you mention there isn't any hope for you guys to do anything but the one who has the responsibility to do something is your sister. It's all in her. I hope you can all work things out to the best of your ability.

NOO you shouldn't admire me at all. You should admire yourself and value who you are. You don't give yourself any credit METERRE! You have traveled down some dark paths and been alone for most of them. YOU ARE STILL HERE! You have survived all of it, and yes you can't always forget your sadness. You can't always push aside all the feelings you have within. You learn to manage your life and put it in balance. I am no better than you or my sister, or anyone else. I may have good coping skills and my social awareness usually helps me, rather than hinder me. I am just a human being like you. Looking for acceptance and approval but I has to come from me. All of the materialistic things in the world cannot make someone feel worthy and loved. YES, I hope we all can learn to look within and find goodness and truth and acceptance. because in that we truly learn to love others with the same depth of love. My sister loathes herself, she sees herself as washed up, used and ruined. She doesn't see goodness within, she sees mistakes and failures. This is where the problem lies. The medication only masks those feelings and she knows that. To change that perspective of self, sometimes takes a lifetime, or many to achieve that goal.
The society we live in shows us all that glitters is gold, but what is really golden is beneath the surface. Like a diamond in the rough, we all are. We just don't always know how to shine through.
YOU can't say you don't have the ability to do that because you do. I know that because of all that I know you have endured up until this point. Loving and accepting yourself cannot be any more painful than the people that have hurt you. Believing it, may be the toughest part, but I have to believe in me, even when I do feel weak and flawed, I know there is goodness within and I am worthy of lovng myself. I screw up DAILY, I treat people with such impatience sometimes. I am lazy, I get angry easy and I am sensitive. I don't organize my time well and I am not always judicious about who let in my life. I allow my energy to be used up for others and then get taken advantage of. BUT THAT IS ME.. and with all the bad, every day I wake up and say today is a new day. A new chance to make different choices and to view myself in the most positive perspective I can.. I may stumble, fall and even stay down for a while but I have to pick my a$$ up off the floor and keep going.. that is not a choice. Its life.
we all suffer, we all feel, we all want to be loved... I wish my sister could listen as well as you do and I wish she could change her thoughts, choices and perspective of self.. until then we wait, we pray... we never give up hope. I love you and our friendship METERRE. For anyone else out there reading or responding
Thank you for caring.. and for listening.

However you do seem to have it more together than me and that your sister and that most people out there. You recognize you are a worthy person and fight everyday to keep it that way. Or so you say... which I do wish I could do that better. Ok so maybe I have also achieved keeping it together in some ways, but it still doesn't take away that it's hard. Just like anything else.
See you do have lots of wisdom and therefore I appreciate you sharing it with me and everyone. You also have gone through things... you're the one who doesn't want to give yourself enough credit I think.
Anyway very true we all suffer and want to be loved, I sure know I'm not the only one. I really hope you keep getting up off the floor whenever you feel down. You do deserve it. And don't mention it, I do care for you as well as many others who read this and reply.
Happy Valentines Day. Enjoy it.

I guess maybe I don't like to give myself credit because then I feel I look self righteous and like I am condascending. I don't want to be that way. I just want to be a good person. I like to be validated by others and maybe sometimes too much, yet I think I realize the real validation has to come from me. That is hard for me but I do think I have the ability to survive through the rough times. I think there is already many people on here that don't respond or say anything to me because they don't like what I HAVE TO SAY or they don't like me. That's fine I just think its stupid. This place has cliques like everywhere else. Just when you think you can talk and share with anyone, you realize that isn't the case. People can be flat out rude but I still come here pouring my heart and soul. I have so many things to say about it, but really, what's the point? People I think enjoy being cruel and exclusive and it doesn't matter how good of a person you are. It doesn't matter how much wisdom I may have or how much pain I may be going through. There are a few good people who reach out and the rest act like they are in their own world. My sister endured this her whole life with people excluding her and making her feel like an outcast. People can be so cruel and they were, she was affected so much by that. It's sad to see that grown ups can be just the same. I hope you had a Happy Valentine's Day!! I am thankful for all who read and reply, I really am.
My sister is an amazing person with a lot of talent, intelligence and gifts, she just doesn't know it yet. I am aware of my gifts, I just try to be humble...
Meterre, are you aware of your gifts? I think you have many and your strengths are many... we are more alike than different... I believe.. xoxoXOXXO my friend.

Gosh Shattered, your last post here, well, it makes me thing that we are all different...
Remember the golden rule love, "Value Our Differences":)
I know you do, but some others find it very hard to think outside of their own. So I suppose that is what your sister has to learn to make it here. I have never looked at Shattered in the mean way, I don't see you as a uppity person, I always thought your words were kind and very very thought out! So if there is one person who cares, I think you are it! Your sister... Shattered, she is lucky to have you all standing by her side... but I am not sure luck is what she needs. It is obvious that you all care for her and do it deeply. Maybe that sense of security isn't so good for someone who refuses to see the light. This is a matter of life or death in some cases, you have seen it and I am sure she has too...
She has got to get this! Maybe a little family meeting is in order. Have you guys ever gotten together all of you? And been very stern with her and told her the truth about what has been happening? I am sorry if I missed that somewhere in here! Or just the three of you get together and make a pact between yourselves not to help her anymore. Sheesh, it is so much easier to say this than to do it, I am thinking to myself right now if I could do it... not sure if I could! Let us know how it's going. And I wish your sister the best !

OHHH Ms. START!! I miss your wonderful advice and suggestions.. they are always thoughtful and compassionate. Yes, you make a good point. I feel I value others, their differences and their outlooks, whether they are the polar opposite of me or if they are exactly like mine.. I don't always feel it's a two way street. Not always is that reciprocated. Yes, an intervention has been attempted before, if that's what you meant. It didn't turn out so good. Her emotions go into high gear, she gets overly sensitive and then VERY ANGRY.. She actually has been OK at my dads. Its kind of like she needs both parents to take over and reteach her the life skills needed to survive. HOWEVER that won't ever happen. My dad would always and will always try to be there for her, let her live with him or me, if it was needed. My mom feels that is unhealthy for her to let my sister stay with her.Their relationship is very codependent and she often acts like a teenager with my mom.
my sisters life sadly resembles so many other lost and troubled souls who just can't seem to change or get out of the rutt they are in . I believe some of her immobility is self induced by laziness and negative thinking, some of it is due to being depressed and anxious over EVERYTHING!! The part that is so frustrating is that she is wasting her precious life on hating herself, and not making any decisions.
I think if she comes back and moves back with her husband, we should cease all support. He wants to take her back to his country.. which means we wouldn't probably ever see her or my nephew again. He is from Tunesia and he wants her to meet his family. I think he wants her there so he can have his son and in that country, he will have more rights to keep him. She doesn't even understand that!! Why would she want to be with someone who is lazy, abusive and downright rude to our family. He expects us to support them and when my mom stopped giving them money, he called her some foul names. I also think my sister married him out of a rebellious reaction to our family, who is by nature quite conservative and Catholic. She married a guy who doesn't want her son to know about Jesus. IT isn't our place to say what they should believe or practice, but our half of the family and our beliefs are just as important as his. Its so complicated but START, the bottom line is, if she wants to be with him, we cannot do another THING to help her.
I wish she would get her priorities straight and just start a job, somewhere, and put some money away. OR go back to school, or SOMETHING!! I thought that is why she went to stay with my dad, to get her sh!t together. Why she hasn't done anything, I don't know. My dad has never been one to baby us. WE were never treated like "Daddy's little girls" or princesses, it just didn't happen. We were taught to be strong, respectful and well mannered at all times. We also had to learn how to shovel snow, chop wood and pitch tents by the time I was 11. I think I got more of his toughness than she did, maybe because I was the oldest. They always saw her as "DIFFERENT" and she was.. but she always was a happy kid.. it was after my parents divorced a few years, when she was a teenager that she started retreating to her room for hours, slept constantly and seemed very aloof. My mom didn't know how to respond so she gave her space, my dad blames her for that because by this time we lived with her. HE thought my mom created a bigger sense of dependency in my sister and that she didn't force her to be responsible enough. Lord knows I had to be responsible, regardless. OH well, I was trying to give you a little more perspective.
BOTTOM LINE, she has to see that she needs help, she has to want it and she has to follow through with it.. until then we are watching a sinking ship.. Us telling her, wanting it for her, trying to help her, it is a futile effort. Maybe if she does decide to go back to the husband, we can all cut our ties with her to make a united effort to show we aren't supporting that decision.
The things I mentioned about being exclusive and cruel.. well that's another story.. and I probably shouldn't have gone off on that tangent right here right now...
I love you start, let's have a good talk!! It has been awhile.

Wow, Shattered, this all just blows my mind, how you have found reasons for your sisters behavior, how you have determined what is right and wrong for her. I mean you, there are the common sense right and wrongs, but let me ask you something...
Lets turn the tables a second, (only cause they got turned on me the other night and made me think.. LOL) So let's say you went and left your kids for three days straight, came back all hung over but acted like nothing happened... OK TO EVERYONE, this is a senario... Shatered has never and would never do this...
But lets say you did, and people were talking about you, picked you apart, started seeing everything that was wrong with you in their eyes, although some may be true, but now, you feel as if there is no return because all of this has been said in the open, the only real way to improve is to start on the good, but now you are so focused on the bad that it stops you from doing anything at all. Not sure if that made much sense, I need to re-read it.. heehee, but really what I am trying to say, I know you Shattered and you put more time into thinking on issues than I do EVER, so the longer we think about things, the more we find out, and so now it comes down to picking our battles and if she does things differently then so be it. It is her life, and as I see it you and your dad have made it your responsibility to try and change it. I feel it is high time, just like I said way back when to stop, and let her make her mistakes. I am sorry if this sounds harsh, it is only my opinion, although with all of your heart and good intentions, she is going to be who she is until SHE decides otherwise. I love you and wish you well with this whole thing, I can only imagine how hard it is to watch her make these decisions and not be able to do anything about it because you know she will may dearly for them later.

I agree start... letting go is so hard when you love someone but sometimes it is the most necessary and helpful thing to do... telling the brain is easy, telling my heart, well that is another.
I do know eexactly what you are saying, we need to stop being the hero and let her fall, even if it's the worst possible scenarios when she does. Right?

Yes, but it sounds so awful. I agree that the tough love should come in to play here. I also agree on the part where you just need to help in a crisis situation. Oh my goodness I am hungry, you want to go get some lunch and talk? LOL...
I have to say that telling you to do something, and me doing it are totally different, I wouldn't be able to cut the ties with my sister, I am pretty sure I wouldn't be able to, I would want to, to see if she can get it right, but I suppose I would want to help her. See how confusing it can be
I am telling you what I would want you to do but also telling you what I would never be able to do too! Sorry for the confusion. So we all know that it would be good to let her make her own mistakes, unless, UNLESS there is that tiny possibility we can save her, and that sweet friend is what we all hang on to... the possibility!

So Shattered, knowing that you may not be able to cut the ties with your sister, which ties should we untie? How about the place to live, and the money. Just start there, and see how it unfolds! If we are honest and tell ourselves what we are really willing to do in a situation and what we can let go of, then maybe there there is a chance that you can be healthy in the way you deal with her!?

Shattered has extended her PM quantity and she needs to remove old PM's. LOL

You both have very good perspectives... amazing to me as I can merely give my point of view. Right now I have so many things on my mind I cannot even think of any perspective. Other than she really needs to wake up and look at what she's doing. Good to see you around SHATTERED and START. Oh by the way yes I think you Shattered need to clean up a few of your PM's. Been trying to at least drop you a line but never can.

Happy Friday everyone!! OK my sister is coming back next Wednesday and going back to her husband. She didn't do anything different in Wyoming than she did here. I would not have bought the plane ticket to come back.. I wish my dad would have made her get the money herself. Maybe then she might have found a job or something!! I can't believe she is going back to him. It really is a shame..
START, I love you and I am taking your advice, financially or otherwise I will not enable her AT ALL.. She cannot live with me UNLESS she makes major changes FIRST.
METERRE, YOU can send me a message!! I am sorry I never delete my old ones from you, I still read them from time to time. I miss you and I am glad you are still around and haven't given up on me!! I love you too.
I can't give in to her anymore and I HATE that she is going to live with him. Her choice not mine but it does scare me to death.

Hello,
This may be a difficult question, one that you may or may not know the answer to, one that your sister may or may not know the answer to. But did anything happen to her back in high school? It sounds like things suddenly changed for her in high school; perhaps nothing happened, but... maybe something happened that has triggered these years of unhappiness?
Hope this helps...

Happy Friday everyone!!!!! OK my sister is coming back next Wednesday and going back to her husband. She didn't do anything different in Wyoming than she did here. I would not have bought the plane ticket to come back.. I wish my dad would have made her get the money herself. Maybe then she might have found a job or something!!!!!!!! I can't believe she is going back to him. It really is a shame..
START, I love you and I am taking your advice, financially or otherwise I will not enable her AT ALL.. She cannot live with me UNLESS she makes major changes FIRST.
METERRE, YOU can send me a message!!!!!! I am sorry I never delete my old ones from you, I still read them from time to time. I miss you and I am glad you are still around and haven't given up on me!!! I love you too.
I can't give in to her anymore and I HATE that she is going to live with him. Her choice not mine but it does scare me to death.

Honey, I know how hard it is for you. Setting ultimatums for loved ones is not easy but someimes very necessary to get them to finally get up and do something for themselves. Otherwise you will feel guilty as an enabler. You know that my wishes and virtual hugs are with you in this, and that any time you need that extra push, just let us know.

Love,
Chery

Ok that's good to hear... I'll drop you a line and send it. Now it is sad your sister keeps doing the same thing... but you must let it go. I know, we all know it frustrates you... your love is kind. You wish you could fix her life so she wouldn't be in that hole she is now... but only God is the one that can do it. So you just leave that up to him, and he'll do what he has to do.
I wish you the best Shatteredsoul.

I, also, wish you all the best in the coming months in dealing with this situation.

Your efforts in dealing with your sister is a long road, hopefully leading to an amicable ending for all involved.

BOUNDARIES,boundaries,boundaries... set them, practice them, live by them.

My friends and family all have them in dealing with many different facets of my changing moods(etc etc etc... lol) and for the most part they work.OLD HABITS being the hardest to break,old behaviors the last to be replaced with healthy ones.

Remember, you are in control, I believe you can do this,do you?

TTYL,

Ken

Join her in Yoga and Meditation

Do I think I can do this..? HMMM Ken, some days I feel absolutely certain about everything and other days completely confused and disillusioned.. I just have to take each day as it comes. If I think too much I get overwhelmed, sad and confused. I think there are lots of old habits to break and not just mine.. also not responding the same way every time. I may not ever be able to help her and that is the plain truth. I won't ever give up I will just change how I try.
Joining her in Yoga and meditation is a really REALLY Good idea.. the problem.. getting her there. She ran the car my mom gave her into the ground.. that is her excuse for not working either. She lives about 40 minutes from here so it makes it difficult picking her up. I happen to think it would be helpful for both of us, just not sure how to make it happen.. THANK YOU BOTH.. and all of you for responding..

METERRE, START AND CHERY Thanks for all your kind words.. this battle is beyond my ability to fight. Staying in to be supportive but I realize I have to change the playing rules..
She comes home tomorrow. I am afraid it will be more of the same with her. I want to stop being afraid and stop feeling bad, about anything..
I love every darn one of you.
Ken, Look how far you have come.. I hope one day that my sister will be more self sufficient and stable so she can help others as you have.

shatteredsoul
I read your very first post which is posted in Oct. 2007 and few replies to it. But unfortunately I don't have time to read all the posts from Oct. 2007 to the end of Feb. 2008. I therefore request you to brief me about the things happened and changes took place during last 4 months. I think I can give you a direction to solve the problem.
I am truly concerned with this issue and would like to advise.
Regards