Found this interesting blog today. It addresses the same subject we discussed earlier.
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David Burchett
Author and Speaker

Is "Christian Intellect" an Oxymoron?

Warning: The following post may (or, sadly, may not) contain humor. This blog was produced in a program where irony and satire are processed. May contain sarcasm fragments. If you are allergic to humor or attempts at humor please avoid this product.

Richard Dawkins is an atheist who loves to denigrate Christian intellect. In fact, for Dawkins the very phrase “Christian intellect” would be oxymoronic. When asked what the main difference between believers and atheists was, Dawkins had a quick answer: "Well, we're bright."
I took that as I hope Dawkins intended it. I laughed. Because he surely does not believe that every single Christian in the world is dim-witted. Then again, perhaps he does. If Richard Dawkins genuinely believes that Christians are that intellectually challenged perhaps he should start a business geared toward people of faith. When we struggle with the difficult tasks of life like getting dressed or balancing a checkbook we could simply go to www.we-are-bright.com (not an actual site for any believers reading this) and get a real atheist to help us figure it out. Sample weblog…
Believer: “Help me bright people. I am locked out of my convertible, it is starting to rain, and the top is down!”
Bright Person: “No problem, still learning to walk upright religious person. Just reach inside and unlock the door.”
Believer: “Oh thank you, smarter than me person!”

Dawkins is not alone in believing that the average Christian is a nugget or two short of a Happy Meal. Here are some titles from blogs and websites (my comments in italics). Many I could not use because this is a family blog.

Stupid Christians index – Didn’t make the list…note to self…try harder
GOP operatives exploiting stupid Christians…That is so not true. Isn’t that right, Mr.Rove?
All Christians are idiots – Maybe today Diogenes the Cynic would be carrying his lantern looking for one smart Christian instead of an honest man.
Amazingly Stupid Christians – Premiering next week on Fox!
I am sick and tired of stupid Christians – Me too.
Stupid Christians are ruining the world – Don’t look now but they are getting lots of help.
101 Reasons to Hate Those Stupid Christians – My favorite. This guy is calling Christians stupid and he has 12 reasons listed on a website entitled 101 reasons. Hmmm. Perhaps he could also get some help from the folks at we-are-bright.com.

I do have one observation from visiting these websites. Get spell check! I began to think the cows from the Chick-fil-a billboards were typing these blogs and posts. Not a lot of communication is going on at most of these sites. Here is a typical exchange:
“You are a stupid (bleeping) Christian!”
“Well, I may be stupid but at least I am not going to hell.”

That is some helpful interchange going on there! That passes for debate at most of these sites.

CNSNews.com reported that some of the leading spokespeople for atheism recently gathered at a convention in Northern Virginia. The consensus was that science must ultimately destroy organized religion.

I hope they mean intellectually.

In his speech, Richard Dawkins portrayed a black-and-white intellectual battle between atheism and religion. He denounced the "preposterous nonsense of religious customs" and compared religion to racism. He also gave no quarter to moderate or liberal believers, asserting that "so-called moderate Christianity is simply an evasion."
"If you've been taught to believe it by moderates, what's to stop you from taking the next step and blowing yourself up?" he said.

Perhaps one overpowering reason is that no where in the teachings of Jesus does it ever say that I should blow myself up. Exactly when or where was the most recent Christian who blew themselves up for their faith? Oddly enough, author Sam Harris was a voice of moderation.

While Harris said he believed science must ultimately destroy religion, he also discussed spirituality and mysticism and called for a greater understanding of allegedly spiritual phenomena. He also cautioned the audience against lumping all religions together.
"The refrain that all religions have their extremists is bull-t," Harris said. "All religions do not have their extremists. Some religions have never had their extremists."

While the audience gave Dawkins a standing ovation, Harris received only polite applause. One questioner later declared herself "very disappointed" in Harris's talk.

Here is a heartbreaking but predictable sidebar to the story reported at Crosswalk.com.
Many of the attendees seemed to have developed an aversion to religion from conservative, Protestant Christians. Several of the atheists Cybercast News Service spoke to complained of living under fundamentalist parents who frowned upon any questioning of the Bible or any activity condemned in Scripture.
"It wasn't easy [telling my parents I was an atheist]," one said. "I still haven't entirely told them. I just say I'm a humanist, which they don't seem to mind."

That makes me sad but I am not surprised. Much of my book “When Bad Christians Happen to Good People” deals with legalism and the failure of many in the church to communicate grace and love. That type of legalistic religion has done immeasurable damage. Jesus was the harshest critic of “religious” hypocrites.

Not much has really changed in the past couple of hundred years. The great preacher Charles M. Spurgeon wrote in the 19th century that “if you follow Christ, all the hounds of the world will yelp at your heels. Count on this, if you live for Jesus Christ, the world will not speak well of you.”

I wish that was not true. I wish I could discuss my faith with civility and grace with everyone. I wish that everyone would view my attempts and desire to communicate my faith as genuine and caring. I am saddened that a group that prides itself on reason is so prone to use ugly stereotypes and ridiculous generalizations. But throwing me under the moron bus won’t change my hope of communicating the message of Christ to you. Sadly, hateful responses have been going on for some time.

So don't be surprised, friends, when the world hates you. This has been going on a long time. The way we know we've been transferred from death to life is that we love our brothers and sisters. (I John 3, The Message)

To those who disagree with my beliefs I can only say that I hope you don’t hate me. I do not hate you. I hope you don’t think I am stupid. I certainly don’t think you are stupid (at least until I get to know you and you demonstrate that fact beyond a shadow of a doubt). I do think some of you have a little anger issue but that is another topic. Perhaps if I can implement the words of James I can enter into civil dialogue with some of you.

Real wisdom, God's wisdom, begins with a holy life and is characterized by getting along with others. It is gentle and reasonable, overflowing with mercy and blessings, not hot one day and cold the next, not two-faced. You can develop a healthy, robust community that lives right with God and enjoy its results only if you do the hard work of getting along with each other, treating each other with dignity and honor. (James 3 – The Message)

That seems like a good place to start for me and my not so bright friends.

Dave Burchett is an Emmy Award winning television sports director, author, and Christian speaker. He is the author of When Bad Christians Happen to Good People and Bring'em Back Alive: A Healing Plan for those Wounded by the Church.

Dawkins is in a minute minority of non-Christians and I'm sure he knows it.

Dawkins is indeed a minority. Looks like you want to start some kind of holy war though. Is this to be the christian equivalent of a jihad?

Unfortunantely there are people out there who group all Christians together. We are all shuned, and criticized because of what some do. This is like saying all people with red cars wreck because most of the car wrecks I have seen involved red cars. And Christian's are stupid? They fail to realize that their one-sided knowledge and thoughts makes them ignorant. I guess all of the stupidity of those who aren't Christians is overlooked.

I always thought science was too firmly rooted to be threatened by religion. Do these people really have so little confidence in science, that they see religion as a threat? Personally, I think the biggest threat to science is those that distort in in pursuit of other agendas, often political or tort cases.

Dawkins is indeed a minority. Looks like you want to start some kind of holy war though. Is this to be the christian equivalent of a jihad?


>... exasperated sigh... <

I merely thought it was an interesting follow up to the previous discussion.

Nothing more sinister than that, I assure you.

However, I do sincerely appreciate your concern. After all, how long until we start blowing ourselves up, right? :rolleyes:

Geez, why can't we just live and let others live without trying to frigging convert everyone - that includes Dawkins and anyone that shows up at my doorstep wanting to talk about my religion.

There is NO such thing as an Atheist!

Maybe you don't understand, kinji, that belief in religion is based on revelation, and that living in reality is based on knowledge(science).

By definition, Christians/Believers/religionists accept belief in the supernatural and the unproved stories that go with that.

By definition, Realitybased/Scientists/athiests require proof about how the world works.

It is just a fact that most scientists and atheists consider religionists of lesser intellect. I ran across a very interesting statistic last week. In the prestigious group of scientists called the Academy of Scientist etc(CRS Syndrome)a poll of members showed that over NINETY ONE PERCENT OF THE MEMBERS did not believe in the supernatural.

There is virtually no common ground.


Christians should just enjoy their faith - belief for the consolation and inspiration it gives them. There is nothing wrong with that!!

Choux,

With all due respect, ma'am, I and other believers of all stripes understand a whole lot more that what we're given credit for.

"It is just a fact that most scientists and atheists consider religionists of lesser intellect."

THAT statement smacks of elitism--something I've heard you rail against in the past.

"There is virtually no common ground."

It really doesn't have to be that way, you know.

In his paper titled "The Culture of Academia: Cutting the Baby in Half," author Dr. Everett Piper notes the following:

"There was a time not long ago when it was assumed that an educated person was one who understood the interconnectedness of all aspects of our existence. One discipline informed the other. Religion and science were interrelated. The humanities were built upon philosophy and visa versa. Economics informed ethics and ethics did likewise for economics. There was harmony between music and math. Faith and learning were intertwined. The university stood for “unity”. Professors, preachers, and politicians all knew that a healthy culture was one built upon an integrated body of knowledge — not a segregated collection of disaffected opinions. Truth stood the test of time and withstood the corruption of power. It was self evident that you can't separate faith from facts or belief from behaviors, for both presuppose the other.

Today, however, our post-modern universities seem to be adrift in self-refuting and disconnected claims that fly in the face of the above logic. Tolerance is championed by faculty who won't tolerate those they judge to be intolerant. Diversity is claimed as the highest good by students who openly detest those with whom they disagree. Academic freedom is demanded by the same people who employ politically correctness to restrict public prayer. The same academicians that railed against government intrusion during the Scopes Monkey Trial now lobby for a government imposed curriculum that prohibits an open exchange of ideas concerning Darwinism and Intelligent Design."

I can't help but think he's on to something, myself.

there is NO such thing as an Athiest!

CRAP! I don't exist! :eek:

Hello? Anyone else out there? CRAP! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Sticks and stones...


Does not matter what Dawkins thinks,

God is sovreign, and He is my Strength and Salvation. David undestood this even when hiding in caves in exile.







Grace and Peace

I have long wondered why uneducated and irrational people NOW insist that they have to be intelligent, and often, brilliant!

Religion serves to console and inspire individuals, religion is a feelgood-not fact. It is to be enjoyed by believers!

People who value intellect, knowledge and fact, and what is true study all the sciences.


There is no common ground between religion and science. Neither camp should pretend that there is!!

Religion based on revelation. It is fixed.

Science is based on previous scientific learning, facts, testing, trial and error, revision, more testing, and so on. Science is subject to revision and obtaining NEW information!

Enjoy your religion!!

Atheists simply don't believe in your GodAlmighty!! That's all. I have Buddhist leanings, Buddhism is a path without a God, but I would still describe myself as an atheist. My spiritual life exists without anything *Supernatural* which doesn't exist.

I enjoy the relationship I have with my God and Saviour. All of the "religion" you can keep. I'll take the revelation.

That all false religion will be destroyed at God's due time, which seems to be fast approaching. The worldwide conglomerate of false religion (the major part being Christendom) is prophesies to meet its end. The Bible book of Revelation foretells that at God's time, he will put the thought into the hearts of world political rulers and governments to turn on and destroy false religion.

An already noticeable growing hostility towards religion in the world today is evidence of the nearness of that time.

Silent,
You are truly a fanatic that most people shy from. Good luck!

NeedKarma... right back at you!

CRAP! I don't exist! :eek:

Hello? Anyone else out there? CRAP! :eek: :eek: :eek:

ALL "ATHIEST" MUST READ

Atheist by definition is someone who believes God does not exist.

Okey I WILL PROVE TO YOU THAT THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN Atheist :
For you to make such an absolute statement such as "God does not exist" you have to be all knowing so basically you would have to know everything that is in the universe everything that is on earth and in the sea and on the stars, sun planets etc..

So its like if I were to make a statement like 'gold does not exist in China" then to prove my statement, I would have to search every square inch of that country in order to confidently say there was no gold. I would also have to search every person to make sure that there were no gold fillings and search every aeroplane in Chinese airspace. Such a mammoth task would be near impossible but would be necessary in order to prove my statement.

Now lets look at the amount knowledge that a human being can possess. It is obvious that even the smartest person who has ever lived couldn't possess even 1% of all the knowledge in existence. But lets imagine that there existed an Atheist who possessed 1% of all the knowledge in existence. This is of course a HUGE exaggeration, but for the sake of this argument lets say that someone did possess this amount of knowledge. If this person was honest, they would have to admit that the other 99% of knowledge that they didn't possess could have the evidence that proves God's existence. So as you can see from this very simple example, it is impossible to absolutely state that there is no God.

Now back to the example. If I found gold in the tooth of one Chinese citizen, then I could truthfully say that there is gold in China even if that amount of Gold was very small.

To conclude: If you claim to be an Atheist, then with respect I say to you that you are actually an Agnostic in the true sense. Meaning you Don't know if there is a God. Although I can respect that you may have chosen not believe in God without proof and in that sense you have chosen to be an Atheist, but your claim to be an atheist is not a scientific one, rather a belief or religion.

To say that there is no God requires absolute knowledge. Knowledge of not only our 4 known and understood dimensions but all the higher dimensions as well and that would be impossible for a 3 dimensional creature such as yourself. However, If you had absolute knowledge then yes God would exist, because you would be God. On the other hand, to say that there is a God only requires personal experience or an understanding that the design in creation warrants a designer. But ultimately there really can only be 2 types of people, believers and agnostics.

For you to make such an absolute statement such as "God does not exist" you have to be all knowing Your argument fails right at your first sentence.

Your argument fails right at your first sentence.


Lol... its really funny but sad how you "Athiest" people are so closed minded and religious. But hay, if Atheism is your religious beliefe then more power to you... lol :D

Why does someone have to be all-knowing to believe that something does not exist? Do you believe that the tooth fairy exist? No? Are you all-knowing? No one has to prove a negative.

Why does someone have to be all-knowing to believe that something does not exist? Do you believe that the tooth fairy exist? No? Are you all-knowing? No one has to prove a negative.


I think you are correct.

If I understand the generally accepted definitions correctly (and please let me know if I don't), then an atheist staunchly believes that there is no God, and an agnostic is one who feels that humanity cannot say with any certainty whether God exists or not. They don't preclude the possibility, just the ability to know.

Am I right?

Why does someone have to be all-knowing to believe that something does not exist? Do you believe that the tooth fairy exist? No? Are you all-knowing? No one has to prove a negative.


I can safely say that because I don't all the knowledge there is to know in the universe that I Don't KNOW if the tooth fairy exists. I have never seen or experience her but She could be on planet pluto for all I know... Niether you or I can prove she Does not exist..
You better of believing in the tooth fairy than believing in your "Athiest" RELIGION because it a zero proof or basis.. lol

I think you are correct.

If I understand the generally accepted definitions correctly (and please let me know if I don't), then an atheist staunchly believes that there is no God, and an agnostic is one who feels that humanity cannot say with any certainty whether God exists or not. They don't preclude the possibility, just the ability to know.

Am I right?


Thant is correct! There a people who believe there is a God and those that don't know if there is a god (agnostic) and the ones that say god does NOT exist are Believers of a Religion called "Athiesm"

and the ones that say god does NOT exist are Believers of a Religion called "Athiesm"No, not at all. Atheists couldn't care less about religion and don't bother to ever give it a thought.

tatertot, do you believe in Zeus? As in, Zeus, the god?

No, not at all. Atheists couldn't care less about religion and don't bother to ever give it a thought.

I can respect that you may have chosen not believe in God without proof and in that sense you have chosen to be an Atheist, but your claim to be an atheist is not a scientific one, rather a belief or religion. So You my friend, are RELIGIOUS because it is impossible for you to prove that does not god exists, but you choose to BELIEVE that. So that makes it a RELIGIOUS belief.

i can respect that you may have chosen not believe in God without proof and in that sense you have chosen to be an Atheist, but your claim to be an atheist is not a scientific one, rather a belief or religion. So You my friend, are RELIGIOUS because it is impossible for you to prove that does not god exists, but you choose to BELIEVE that. So that makes it a RELIGIOUS belief.

Lack of evidence is evidence of lack.

(https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/../members/tatertot.html)tatertot (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/../members/tatertot.html) disagrees: Don't try and convince people of your "athiest" religious beliefs either because they are very irrational.. lolJust a quick question - if you are not an atheist how can you speak with conviction as to what one believes?

No, not at all. Atheists couldn't care less about religion and don't bother to ever give it a thought.


Lol... aaaahhhh yah! You people just crack me up! "athiest couldnt care less about religion and dont give it a though"?. lol YOU obviously you must not be an atheist then because you sure do spend A lot of time on it. Not only do you give religion "a thought" you actually go to the lengths of actually signing up for a web site, spend all day on your computer discussing it and you are on eeeevery ffffrigging discusion there is about religion I have seen on this site. Lol are you for real? So your condescending remarks a just damn funny because that just make you sound so confused.
It takes more Faith to believe that there is no God than to believe there is one so by that token I would say; You are the most religious, close minded person I have encounter in my whole life and YOU are the one who has been trying to shove your baseless Athiestic Religious beliefs on everyone. So do me a favor and believe what you believe and I will believe what I want to believe. Coz really, I couldn't give a rat's as* what you believe in and I don't think any other Christain does either because I have not seen anyone on this site "forcing" you to believe in GOD. So take your OWN advice and don't stop forcing your religion on other people...

I think we're splitting too many hairs here.

Why don't we stick to the original issue and quit attacking each other?

My my, tatertot... you are one angry Christian.

You also never answered my question, which I can only assume is because of one of two reasons; (1) You do NOT believe in Zeus, which means you've proven your first argument is worthless; or (2) By sticking to your original argument you would be forced to say you believe their COULD be a god named Zeus; which is against your Christian faith. So which is it? Or is there a third option I missed? Or are you going to continue being an angry Christian who is intent on insulting others and getting off topic?

Just wondering...

"tatertot disagrees: you obviously dont know the meaning of this expression because that does not even apply.."

Personal attacks seem to be your preferred method.

I guess I'm about done with you.

lol ... aaaahhhh yah! you people just crack me up! "athiest couldnt care less about religion and dont give it a though" ??????...lol YOU obviously you must not be an athiest then coz you sure do spend ALOT of time on it. Not only do you give religion "a thought" you actually go to the lengths of actually signing up for a web site, spend all day on your computer discussing it and you are on eeeevery ffffrigging discusion there is about religion i have seen on this site. lol r you for real?? So your condescending remarks a just damn funny cos that just make you sound so confused.
It takes more Faith to believe that there is no God than to believe there is one so by that token i would say; You are the most religious, close minded person i have encounter in my whole life and YOU are the one who has been trying to shove your baseless Athiestic Religious beliefs on everyone. So do me a favor and believe what you believe and i will believe what i want to believe. Coz really, i couldnt give a rat's as* what you believe in and i dont think any other Christain does either because i have not seen anyone on this site "forcing" you to believe in GOD. So take your OWN advice and dont stop forcing your religion on other people...

I hope you read the end of the op's link. Because love is what should characterize a Christian.

I don't believe anyone comes to Christ from an intellectual / reasoned perspective, so you can't argue another into believing - I've tried also. I leave it to God's will.

I say this because it takes faith and that is more a 'heart' and being thing rather than a cerebral thing. It does not mean that a Chritian is 'dumb' or a 'moron' etc...

For me it means taking all the evidence that we humans and science have and coming to your own conclusion.





Grace and Peace

**Cough cough** TROLL! **Cough cough**

It might be time to use than handy "block" feature...

My my, tatertot... you are one angry Christian.

You also never answered my question, which I can only assume is because of one of two reasons; (1) You do NOT believe in Zeus, which means you've proven your first argument is worthless; or (2) By sticking to your original argument you would be forced to say you believe their COULD be a god named Zeus; which is against your Christian faith. So which is it? Or is there a third option I missed? Or are you going to continue being an angry Christian who is intent on insulting others and getting off topic?

Just wondering....

Oh my bad I totally missed your question, jilly I did not see it. But yes I will answer your question: no I do not believe in Zeus reason being I don't know if he exists. Can I say he does not exist? No certainly not because like I said in my argument unless I have all absolute knowledge of everything that is in the universe, then I can not make an absolute statement that Zeus does not exist. So maybe he deos exists like I told your home boy.. lol needkarma Zeus maybe chilling with tooth fairy on saturn for all I know.. does that answer your question.

I also vote for troll Jillean.

Your argument still violates basic logic. Look at your first sentence:


For you to make such an absolute statement such as "God does not exist" you have to be all knowing

You contend one cannot make an absolute statement (of any kind) unless they are all-knowing. Yet you say god exists, right? How can you make such an absolute statement unless you are all knowing? So I propose your initial statement, "one cannot make an absolute statement unless they are all knowing" is a false statement. If, by chance, you do not personally believe beyond all doubt (the Christian) god exists, then you are not a Christian, and this entire argument is moot. But I'm assuming you consider yourself a Christian.

Do a Google search for "The square of oppositions"; your statement is a "E" statement, and it is FALSE; therefore, my statement, "one can make an absolute statement without being all knowing" is the "A" statement - it must be true.

According to your logic, no one can ever assert an absolute, because none of us are all-knowing. You cannot deny the existence of Zeus, or the invisible, odorless, tasteless, silent pink unicorn which follows your every move. In the same token, you cannot CONFIRM the existence of anything - because you are not all-knowing.

There's also a violation in logic of god being both omnipotent and omniscient, but I pointed that out in another thread.

Beyond all of that, by saying you do not believe in Zeus because you don't know for sure if he exists indicates you acknowledge the POSSIBILITY he can exist. So you admit there is the possibility another god exists. That violates your theology. Bad Christian, BAD!

So, are you a bad Christian who acknowledges there could be other gods, or have you made a flawed logical argument?

Dawkins is in a minute minority of non-Christians and I"m sure he knows it.Actually christians are in the minority. There are more people of no religion or other religions than there are christians.

[QUOTE=inthebox]I hope you read the end of the op's link. Because love is what should characterize a Christian.

I don't believe anyone comes to Christ from an intellectual / reasoned perspective, so you can't argue another into believing - I've tried also. I leave it to God's will.

I say this because it takes faith and that is more a 'heart' and being thing rather than a cerebral thing. It does not mean that a Chritian is 'dumb' or a 'moron' etc...

For me it means taking all the evidence that we humans and science have and coming to your own conclusion.

Inthebox. I agree with you 100%. It is through FAITH that we believe in Christ. I am a born again christain and Christ has saved me from literary death and I have had personal encounter with him that has made him real to me and that is why I worship him. I Was just wanting to point out to these so called "athiests" that what they believe in is also a religios belief because it is not scientific fact. Since the ahtiests on this sight have an air of superiority because they equate atheism to interlect which is bolony. I just wanted to prove that even a so called "christian dummy" can also interlectually argue against their religious beliefs. I know it is a waist of time to argue with people about God because until they soften their hearts to let Him is reaveal Himself to them through the holy sprit it is just dead ended. But I am just trying to make a point because their condescending remarks about "religious people" are quite ironic.. lol because they are just as religious as any other religion. ;)

I believe in a God, after all I'm a deist. But I don't have a problem with any of the atheists here. They have all shown themselves to be quite intelligent. Deists have more in common with atheists than with christians.

tatertot disagrees:?? What is the relevance and/or application for this statement?

The point is that the fact that we don't observe some phenomenon is, in itself, reason to believe that the phenomenon does not exist.

Like NeedKarma and others are pointing out. There is as much evidence for God as there is for a teapot orbiting around the Earth or a tiny talking elephant on the desk in front of you. Yet 2 of these things are ridiculous to you, and one you take as absolute truth. Does that not seem a little illogical?

Don't get me wrong, God is an incredibly powerful idea and a wonder of human ingenuity to come up with such a being to explain the world around us. But God's domain is being pushed further back by science and evidence.

We may never know what caused the big bang, maybe the idea of God will be forever safe there. Part of me hopes so, God is one of mankind's greatest inventions, on par with the theory of evolution and general relativity, just in a different environment and time.

Your argument still violates basic logic. Look at your first sentence:



You contend one cannot make an absolute statement (of any kind) unless they are all-knowing. Yet you say god exists, right? How can you make such an absolute statement unless you are all knowing? So I propose your initial statement, "one cannot make an absolute statement unless they are all knowing" is a false statement. If, by chance, you do not personally believe beyond all doubt (the Christian) god exists, then you are not a Christian, and this entire argument is moot. But I'm assuming you consider yourself a Christian.

Do a google search for "The square of oppositions"; your statement is a "E" statement, and it is FALSE; therefore, my statement, "one can make an absolute statement without being all knowing" is the "A" statement - it must be true.

According to your logic, no one can ever assert an absolute, because none of us are all-knowing. You cannot deny the existence of Zeus, or the invisible, odorless, tasteless, silent pink unicorn which follows your every move. In the same token, you cannot CONFIRM the existence of anything - because you are not all-knowing.

There's also a violation in logic of god being both omnipotent and omniscient, but I pointed that out in another thread.

Beyond all of that, by saying you do not believe in Zeus because you don't know for sure if he exists indicates you acknowledge the POSSIBILITY he can exist. So you admit there is the possibility another god exists. That violates your theology. Bad Christian, BAD!

So, are you a bad Christian who acknowledges there could be other gods, or have you made a flawed logical argument?

Lol... Nice TRY :) you are so predictable.. lol . YOu should think before you write though. Of course we can make absolute statements of things we have all knowledge of. I can make an absolute statement right now that I am NOT wearing red shoes. That is an absolute statement and I don't need to have all knowledge of the universe and beyond to make that statement. All I have to do is look at my feet. It's a fact I am not wearing red shoes. I can also say there is no cheese in my sandwich. That is an absolute statement, I don't have to look no further than my sandwich to prove it. The example are endless. We all make absolute statements everyday.. of things we have all knowledge of. I have all knowledge of my sandwich I can tell you that.. and I can also tell you that the 99.999999% of knowledge you don't possess could have evidence that God exisist.

And for you weak Zeus argument. I am not a bad christian... lol that was funny.. The Holy Bible talkes about people having other gods (note the little g) even the people of Moses day had a golden calf as their god. Did the golden calf god exist? YES Do I beilieve in or worship the calf? No Does me admitting that the golden calf god worshiped by those people existed make me a bad Christian? Most certainly not.. So I don't know if Zeus exists and therefore I don't believe in him or worship him. But I do know my God exists because he has revealed himself to me and no one including you can argue against that because then you would have to know everything about me, my thoughts, and you would have to have been present with me from the day I was born to prove that He has not revieled himself to me. So if you read my analogy about gold in CHina, you would see that for me to say with CERNTAINTY "there is no gold in China" I have to be all knowing of China. I would need to know everything that is in china, in the ground, in people's homes, mouths, under every rock cave etc. But for me to say "there IS gold in China i just need to find one fellow with a gold tooth or one little girl with a gold chain, then i can say with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that "there is Gold in China".

So you come with it at what ever angle you want to but you can not argue or prove to me that there is no GOd. So that means you are religious because you choose to believe that God does not exist despite the absence of evidence.

Exodus 20:3
“You shall have no other gods before Me.
Exodus 20:2-4 (in Context) Exodus 20 (Whole Chapter)
Exodus 23:13
“And in all that I have said to you, be circumspect and make no mention of the name of other gods, nor let it be heard from your mouth.
Exodus 23:12-14 (in Context) Exodus 23 (Whole Chapter)
Deuteronomy 5:7
‘You shall have no other gods before Me.
Deuteronomy 5:6-8 (in Context) Deuteronomy 5 (Whole Chapter)
Deuteronomy 6:14
You shall not go after other gods, the gods of the peoples who are all around you
Deuteronomy 6:13-15 (in Context) Deuteronomy 6 (Whole Chapter)
Deuteronomy 7:4
For they will turn your sons away from following Me, to serve other gods; so the anger of the LORD will be aroused against you and destroy you suddenly.
Deuteronomy 7:3-5 (in Context) Deuteronomy 7 (Whole Chapter)
Deuteronomy 8:19
Then it shall be, if you by any means forget the LORD your God, and follow other gods, and serve them and worship them, I testify against you this day that you shall surely perish.
Deuteronomy 8:18-20 (in Context) Deuteronomy 8 (Whole Chapter)
Deuteronomy 11:16
Take heed to yourselves, lest your heart be deceived, and you turn aside and serve other gods and worship them,
Deuteronomy 11:15-17 (in Context) Deuteronomy 11 (Whole Chapter)

The Bible does not deny the existence of other gods. The LORD God says they are lesser gods that we are not to worship. These include created gods and also the things we place as idols in our heart--idols can be money, intelligence, our arguments and beliefs we are unwilling to submit to the LORD God, etc. Christianity does not deny their existence, just the worship of them.
lol... Nice TRY :) you are so predictable..lol . YOu should think before you write though. Ofcourse we can make absolute statements of things we have all knowlege of. i can make an absolute statement right now that i am NOT wearing red shoes. that is an absolute statement and i dont need to have all knowlege of the universe and beyond to make that statement. All i have to do is look at my feet. its a fact i am not wearing red shoes. i can also say there is no cheese in my sandwich. That is an absolute statement, i dont have to look no further than my sandwich to prove it. The example are endless. We all make absolute statements everyday.. of things we have all knowlege of. I have all knowlege of my sandwich i can tell you that.. and i can also tell you that the 99.999999% of knowlege you dont posess could have evidence that God exisist.

and for you weak Zeus argument. I am not a bad christian...lol that was funny.. The Holy Bible talkes about people having other gods (note the little g) even the people of Moses day had a golden calf as thier god. Did the golden calf god exist? YES Do i beilieve in or worship the calf? No Does me admitting that the golden calf god worshiped by those people existed make me a bad Christian? most certainly not.. So i dont know if Zeus exists and therefore i dont believe in him or worship him. But i do know my God exists because he has revealed himself to me and no one including you can argue against that because then you would have to know everthing about me, my thoughts, and you would have to have been present with me from the day i was born to prove that He has not revieled himself to me. So if you read my analogy about gold in CHina, you would see that for me to say with CERNTAINTY "there is no gold in China" i have to be all knowing of China. I would need to know everything that is in china, in the ground, in people's homes, mouths, under every rock cave etc. But for me to say "there IS gold in China i just need to find one fellow with a gold tooth or one little girl with a gold chain, then i can say with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that "there is Gold in China".

So you come with it at what ever angle you want to but you can not argue or prove to me that there is no GOd. So that means you are religious because you choose to believe that God does not exist despite the absense of evidence.

lol... Nice TRY :) you are so predictable..lol . YOu should think before you write though. Ofcourse we can make absolute statements of things we have all knowlege of. i can make an absolute statement right now that i am NOT wearing red shoes. that is an absolute statement and i dont need to have all knowlege of the universe and beyond to make that statement. All i have to do is look at my feet. its a fact i am not wearing red shoes. i can also say there is no cheese in my sandwich. That is an absolute statement, i dont have to look no further than my sandwich to prove it. The example are endless. We all make absolute statements everyday.. of things we have all knowlege of. I have all knowlege of my sandwich i can tell you that.. and i can also tell you that the 99.999999% of knowlege you dont posess could have evidence that God exisist.

and for you weak Zeus argument. I am not a bad christian...lol that was funny.. The Holy Bible talkes about people having other gods (note the little g) even the people of Moses day had a golden calf as thier god. Did the golden calf god exist? YES Do i beilieve in or worship the calf? No Does me admitting that the golden calf god worshiped by those people existed make me a bad Christian? most certainly not.. So i dont know if Zeus exists and therefore i dont believe in him or worship him. But i do know my God exists because he has revealed himself to me and no one including you can argue against that because then you would have to know everthing about me, my thoughts, and you would have to have been present with me from the day i was born to prove that He has not revieled himself to me. So if you read my analogy about gold in CHina, you would see that for me to say with CERNTAINTY "there is no gold in China" i have to be all knowing of China. I would need to know everything that is in china, in the ground, in people's homes, mouths, under every rock cave etc. But for me to say "there IS gold in China i just need to find one fellow with a gold tooth or one little girl with a gold chain, then i can say with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that "there is Gold in China".

So you come with it at what ever angle you want to but you can not argue or prove to me that there is no GOd. So that means you are religious because you choose to believe that God does not exist despite the absense of evidence.No matter what you say you do not "know" that God exists. You believe based on your personal experience that there is a God. I believe in a God, but I don't "know" there is one. You can "see" that you're not wearing red shoes, or you can "see" that is there is no cheese on your sandwich, but you cannot see God.

I believe in a God, after all I'm a deist. But I don't have a problem with any of the atheists here. They have all shown themselves to be quite intelligent. Deists have more in common with atheists than with christians.

Diest that is the dumbest thing I have heard you say... lol Seriosly sorry to says so but that is the most retarded thing I have heard in a long time. You think Deists have more in common with atheists than with christians... I think you need to find a dictionary and revise the meanings of deist and athiests. They are comple opposites. A diest believes there is a God and Atheist believe there is NO God. So what do you have incommon?? A diest and a Christian both believe there is a god there for they have something in common. Come on people if you are going to argue your points you guys need to make rational intelligent points. Seriously I came one here to discuss religious beliefs and now I am have to teach people first grade English. What does a diest have in common with an atheist? Really I am curious... lol oh I will tell you what you have incommon.. . You both have hatred toward Christians just like the rest of the "world". You can tollerate all religions large and small as long as they are not christians. I am not moved nor surprised because Christ warned us many years ago that just as he was hated so will we be. So your hatred towards christians further cements my belief in Christ because he was soooo right. People can say Buddha Krishna Dali lama and no one cares but the moment you say Jesus controversy hatred venom starts to fly. That's fine, I isn't mad at you diest. I am still praying for you :)

I think we need a troll avatar pronto.

The point is that the fact that we don't observe some phenomenon is, in itself, reason to believe that the phenomenon does not exist.

Like NeedKarma and others are pointing out. There is as much evidence for God as there is for a teapot orbiting around the Earth or a tiny talking elephant on the desk in front of you. Yet 2 of these things are ridiculous to you, and one you take as absolute truth. Does that not seem a little illogical?

Don't get me wrong, God is an incredibly powerful idea and a wonder of human ingenuity to come up with such a being to explain the world around us. But God's domain is being pushed further back by science and evidence.

We may never know what caused the big bang, maybe the idea of God will be forever safe there. Part of me hopes so, God is one of mankind's greatest inventions, on par with the theory of evolution and general relativity, just in a different environment and time.

I can tell you with Certainty that God exists because he has revealed himself to me and has changed my life and I speak to him every day. And for you to prove that he has NOT revealed himself to me you would have to know everything about me my thoughts will and emotions and you would have to have been with me from the day I was born. You can not prove to me that God does not exist because you don't even know a fraction of a % of all the knowledge there is to know in the universe and beyond.

No matter what you say you do not "know" that God exists. You believe based on your personal experience that there is a God. I believe in a God, but I don't "know" there is one. You can "see" that you're not wearing red shoes, or you can "see" that is there is no cheese on your sandwich, but you cannot see God.

I "know" that God exists. You know, you really should stop trying to convert people to your way of thinking by putting "contradictons" and "false prophecies" on here and concentrate more on your relationship with God. By your statement it seems to me that you are weak in your faith. That's what having faith is deist. It's "knowing" what you believe in is true and real. Everyone can know God exists just as I do if they would only allow themselves to. I don't have to have proof the whole world can see to know God exists. The proof God has given me is enough to know. Also, "seeing" is not the only way to know something exists. You can't "see" a headache, but you "know" when you have one.

Diest that is the dumbest thing i have heard you say...lol Seriosly sorry to says so but that is the most retarded thing i have heard in a long time. You think Deists have more in common with atheists than with christians...lol You didnt to do well on your SAT's did you?
I think you need to find a dictionary and revise the meanings of deist and athiests. they are comple opposites. A diest believes there is a God and Atheist believe there is NO God. so what do you have incommon??? A diest and a Christian both believe there is a god there for they have something in commom. Come on people if you are going to argue your points you guys need to make rational inteligent points. Seriously i came one here to discuss religious beliefs and now i am have to teach people first grade English. what does a diest have in common with an athiest?? really i am curious...lol oh i will tell you what you have incommon. ..You both have hatred toward Christians just like the rest of the "world". You can tollerate all religions large and small as long as they are not christians. I am not moved nor surprised because Christ warned us many years ago that just as he was hated so will we be. So your hatred towards christians further cements my belief in Christ because he was soooo right. people can say buddah Krishna Dali lama and no one cares but the moment you say Jesus controversy hatred venom starts to fly. Thats fine, i aint mad at ya diest. I am still praying for you :)I would rather not have someone who calls me retarded to pray for me. What do atheists & deists have in common ? They both place reason above faith. They both believe science over religion. They both believe in evolution. So what that I believe in God & they don't ? God doesn't mind. If I could ever be persuaded to accept Jesus as my savior, a christian such as you with your hostile attidude certainly couldn't do it. You give the christian god a bad name.

lol... Nice TRY :) you are so predictable..lol . YOu should think before you write though. Ofcourse we can make absolute statements of things we have all knowlege of. i can make an absolute statement right now that i am NOT wearing red shoes. that is an absolute statement and i dont need to have all knowlege of the universe and beyond to make that statement. All i have to do is look at my feet. its a fact i am not wearing red shoes. i can also say there is no cheese in my sandwich. That is an absolute statement, i dont have to look no further than my sandwich to prove it. The example are endless. We all make absolute statements everyday.. of things we have all knowlege of. I have all knowlege of my sandwich i can tell you that.. and i can also tell you that the 99.999999% of knowlege you dont posess could have evidence that God exisist.

and for you weak Zeus argument. I am not a bad christian...lol that was funny.. The Holy Bible talkes about people having other gods (note the little g) even the people of Moses day had a golden calf as thier god. Did the golden calf god exist? YES Do i beilieve in or worship the calf? No Does me admitting that the golden calf god worshiped by those people existed make me a bad Christian? most certainly not.. So i dont know if Zeus exists and therefore i dont believe in him or worship him. But i do know my God exists because he has revealed himself to me and no one including you can argue against that because then you would have to know everthing about me, my thoughts, and you would have to have been present with me from the day i was born to prove that He has not revieled himself to me. So if you read my analogy about gold in CHina, you would see that for me to say with CERNTAINTY "there is no gold in China" i have to be all knowing of China. I would need to know everything that is in china, in the ground, in people's homes, mouths, under every rock cave etc. But for me to say "there IS gold in China i just need to find one fellow with a gold tooth or one little girl with a gold chain, then i can say with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that "there is Gold in China".

So you come with it at what ever angle you want to but you can not argue or prove to me that there is no GOd. So that means you are religious because you choose to believe that God does not exist despite the absense of evidence.

tatertot, you've made another mistake. I am not trying to prove to you god doesn't exist. I'm trying to prove to you that your statement, "one cannot make an absolute statement without having all knowledge in the universe" is wrong. Believe in god all you want, it doesn't bother me any. You're still missing the point and do not understand the flaw in your logic (even though you acknowledged in in your shoe statement). Take a logic class and maybe you'll get it. I'm not explaining it to you anymore.

I'd point out to you how you are fundamentally wrong about atheism being a religion, but I think you are a troll, and I'm done indulging you. Think whatever you want, write whatever you want, I'm not going to bother responding to you any longer.

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