Sept. 4, 2007

I was an authorized user on my father's credit card - NOT a co-signer. He passed away last year. I used my Dad's credit card after he died to pay for medications that we could not return and for several small items to clean up his home. I think I used the card 5 times. In the meantime I sent the card company a death certificate, which they received. All of my Dad's money went toward his care at his retirement home. It was extremely expensive ($3500.00 per month, sometimes more because they charge for anything extra) and he died with no assets. He left me his home which we tried to sell but it is in such bad shape that we received no offers. (His house is in my husband's and my name). The paper work, the responsibilities, and the loss of someone I loved so much has been very overwhelming. Now the credit card company is coming after me telling me I must send them a payment of $250.00 per month to pay on my Dad's credit card! I explained to them SEVERAL times that my father left a 100,000.00 mortgage, that we are paying on that IN ADDITION to our own bills. That there is NO WAY we are in any position to pay a monthly bill like that. But that aside, why should we be held responsible for that? They informed me that "unless I paid them a payment of $206.00 they would turn Dad's account over to the fraud unit!" I have been working 40+ hours, and was at a loss as to what to do. I have never committed a "crime" in my entire life! Like an idiot I mailed them their $206.00. I have since visited the "Fair Debt Collection Practices Act" and from what I can tell, they are no supposed to threaten consumers like that. And that is exactly what it felt like. I am not liable for my father's credit card. I am under so much stress now with 3 mortgages that I rarely sleep at night, and my hair is falling out. Can anyone advise me? Calling the fact that I used my Dad's card after his death a few times (on his behalf) - fraud - is committed! As far as I am concerned this is just a loop-home by these companies to bully the consumer and using scare tactics. If it came down to "my arrest", I would simply tell the judge the truth. Funny that nothing is ever told to consumers about this. Can someone out there advise me. I am preparing a letter explaining to them that I am not liable for my Dad's credit card, (and even if I was, I am in no position to pay). We are now faced with a 100,000 mortgage. I am not going to be held liable for a credit card that wasn't mine. I was an authorized user to make purchases for Dad because he was in a retirement home and there were things he would ask me to get for him. Can someone please advise me - someone who might know the law. I will ultimately follow that law is someone would just tell me what it is. I can't afford an attorney. Thank you!
Ziegler50

It is fraud to use a deceased person's credit card and if you were a secondary holder and signed for goods,you are responsible for what you charged. I can't believe it was the actual credit card company who contacted you, they usually pass that over to a collection agency.

I used to work for a credit card issuer and is it against the cardholder agreement for an authorized user to continue using the credit card after the cardholder's death. That being said, while I worked there I spoke to at least one widow(er) per week who was continuing to use the credit card after the death of the cardholder - sometimes for decades afterward.
Our policy was to shut down the card immediately and turn it over to the department that handles deceased cardholder's accounts.

If you are dealing with a particularly nasty company they may insist that you pay for the charges that incurred after his death. I have a couple of questions. Did you notify the credit card company of his death or did you just stop paying the bill? Have you sent a copy of the death certificate to the credit card company? Are you dealing with the company or has the account been sold off to a collection agency?

Your father's estate is responsible for the account. If they are really aggressive, they may try to put a lien on the house to prevent you selling it before they collect. Depending on the amount owed, they may simply write it off if you stand firm and refuse to pay.

I agree it was fraud to continue to use the account after his death. However, it MIGHT be argued that you were using the account in your capacity as executor of his will.

I would consult an attorney about this. But you might be able to get away with paying for the charges you made after his death.

You say the house is in you and your husband's name? When did that happen?

The thing is that, legally all debts of the estate must be paid before any assets are distributed to beneficiaries. So, if you trasnferred the property AFTER his death without using it to pay the debts, then that is another fraud.

What you need to do now Is total up the debts that existed on your father's death. Then total up the assets he had at the time of death. Send a letter to his creditors, with this accounting and show there is no cash to settle his debts. That, if and when you sell his house, you will use any proceeds to take of his debts as best you can. Until that time, they need to stop bothering you as you are not personally responsible for any debts he had.

Thank you for your honesty in response to my question. I want to respond to your questions:
1. I was not a secondary card holder on my Dad's credit card. I was an authorized user. It may very well be a collection agency I am speaking with. Their name and address is not the same as the credit card company. What do you mean when you say the account was "sold" to a collection agency? Is that legal?

2. I have already paid for all of the charges in full that I incurred after Dad's death: A cleaning fee for cleaning some of Dad's clothes that he wanted given to someone. A storage pmt for some of Dad's furniture. Some work done on Dad's bathroom. All paid for.

3. I had to wait several weeks before I received the death certificates. When I did they were submitted to all parties including the credit card company. It was about that time that I stopped receiving statements probably because it was exchanging hands. The next I knew I was receiving these phone calls. Can a lien be put against the house? I thought that wasn't legal?

I have gone onto the site: "Fair Debt Collection Practices Act," and it sounds to me like this company did some things they shouldn't have, mainly threatening that I would be turned over to a fraud unit unless I paid them $206.00 immediately.

4. My Dad has no debts but this one. He did have another credit card bill with Chase, but they collected through a "Settlement Program," and said the bill was taken care of. In the letter sent to me from this other company it said," We can forgive a portion of the balance through our Settlement Program. Once the account is settled, monthly pmts will no longer need to be paid?" What does all of this mean? I don't understand. Then they told me I must make a payment of $215.00 by September 24th. I do not have $215.00! And if I did I don't feel it is my responsibilility to pay this. My family just cannot take on anymore debt. We are barely making it now. The letter also stated that the annual percentage rate on the account is 1%.

I am frightened by all of this. I have never been involved in a situation like this before. What should I do?? I have paid all of the charges (actually overpaid by $200.00). There is zero money left. I wish there were money left. As I said earlier, every bit of money went to the caring of my Dad.

I will be grateful for your replys and thank you again to all of you for taking the time to respond. I actually feel a little better just being able to talk about it.
Ziegler50

Thank you for your honesty in response to my question. I want to respond to your questions:
1. I was not a secondary card holder on my Dad's credit card. I was an authorized user. It may very well be a collection agency I am speaking with. Their name and address is not the same as the credit card company. What do you mean when you say the account was "sold" to a collection agency? Is that legal?

2. I have already paid for all of the charges in full that I incurred after Dad's death: A cleaning fee for cleaning some of Dad's clothes that he wanted given to someone. A storage pmt for some of Dad's furniture. Some work done on Dad's bathroom. All paid for.

3. I had to wait several weeks before I received the death certificates. When I did they were submitted to all parties including the credit card company. It was about that time that I stopped receiving statements probably because it was exchanging hands. The next I knew I was receiving these phone calls. Can a lien be put against the house? I thought that wasn't legal?

I have gone onto the site: "Fair Debt Collection Practices Act," and it sounds to me like this company did some things they shouldn't have, mainly threatening that I would be turned over to a fraud unit unless I paid them $206.00 immediately.

4. My Dad has no debts but this one. He did have another credit card bill with Chase, but they collected through a "Settlement Program," and said the bill was taken care of. In the letter sent to me from this other company it said," We can forgive a portion of the balance through our Settlement Program. Once the account is settled, monthly pmts will no longer need to be paid?" What does all of this mean? I don't understand. Then they told me I must make a payment of $215.00 by September 24th. I do not have $215.00! And if I did I don't feel it is my responsibilility to pay this. My family just cannot take on anymore debt. We are barely making it now. The letter also stated that the annual percentage rate on the account is 1%.

I am frightened by all of this. I have never been involved in a situation like this before. What should I do?? I have paid all of the charges (actually overpaid by $200.00). There is zero money left. I wish there were money left. As I said earlier, every bit of money went to the caring of my Dad.

I will be grateful for your replys and thank you again to all of you for taking the time to respond. I actually feel a little better just being able to talk about it.
Ziegler50

1. Debts are sold all the time. Its perfectly legal. And yes we understood you were an authorized user. That's what makes it fraud. If you were a co holder it wouldn't have been.

2. The problem is those payments are not discernable, unless there was no previous balance. As long as there was a previous balance, the purchases are commingled.

3. As soon as the credit card company received the death certificate, they probably initially closed the account. Then someone noticed that charges were made after the date of death.

Its unlikely, though, that a lien can be put on the house for unsecured debt.

Actually that wasn't an empty threat.

4. I'm not clear on what account you are referring to, the Chase card or which?

Do what I said, total the debts, total the assets and send a letter to each creditor indicating there is nothing left from the estate to pay debts.

And there is another issue, since you have not "sold" the home, you have not cleared the estate, if you transferred the house you can't sell to your name, them you can be held responsible for all the debts of the estate.

You have to have an estate sell and auction the house if nothing else, use that money if any from the sell of the property to pay what can be paid.
If you keep that house, you will have to pay all of his bills.

There is a legal way to clear an estate, and you have not followed it.

Scott,
I paid all of the charges made after my Dad's death. Anything prior was my Dad's. I was an authorized user strictly to make purchases for my Dad because he could no longer drive. This included medications, toiletries, clothes, etc. Gerri Detweiler who is a debt expert (Gerri Detweiler's Consumer Alerts (http://www.UltimateCredit.com)) says that continued attempts to collect the debt would be a violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. It also states that: "The false representation or implication that the consumer committed any crime or other conduct in order to disgrace the consumer." (Meaning that I frauded my Dad's credit card).

My dad left behind 2 credit card debts. Chase was the other credit card which they have already settled. This other credt card that has been calling me and writing letters is the only debt left with the exception of the home mortgage.

Thanks, Scott.
Ziegler50

I think what I will do is seek the advice of a credit attorney. Pay whatever he would charge to meet with him for 1 consultation. Our friend is the former city attorney of our city, so I will call him and get a referral with someone who specializes in these kinds of situations. Then I won't have to continue questioning the situation. I just want to put this behind me. I don't, however think that I will have to auction the house. Papers were drawn up by a credible attorney before Dad passed away, putting it in my name in order to avoid legal ramifications. This was my Dad's choice, especially since I am the only child. My Dad didn't want the government getting anything. Thanks so much everyone.. .

OK, so the house was transferred prior to his death, so its not part of the estate, that's good. I'll assume you paid all necessary taxes as a result of the gift.

Since there were no additional assets to pay off the debts those debts died with him. What Gerri Detweiler said is correct. What you are forgetting is that using the card after his death could be considered fraud. Therefore, there wasn't a false implication that a crime was committed. However, since you paid the charges incurred after his death, that should clear you.