Why are christians so judgemental about gay people, I am not gay but have friends and family that are. If god made everybody who made gay people if it is such a problem

I don't have a problem with them either, and have many friends who are. I think the general consensus with Christians is that they believe it is a lifestyle choice and not a characteristic you are born with... so You actually have a say in whether you are or are not homosexual... and choosing so is a sin. Does that make sense?

Why are christians so judgemental about gay people, I am not gay but have friends and family that are. If god made everybody who made gay people if it is such a problem


Because there is a passage(s) in the bible about men laying with other males. It does not explicitly say that having a homosexual relationship is wrong, but christians are known to interpret passages as they see fit.

B/c in the bible (their holly word) pish posh to me. It says god doesn't like gays. Well to me I think then that this "god" is a lier, fraud and time waster. It's different to be gay. So people get scared and go nuts. Just like they did to people with special gifts they called them witches. Bunch of crap to me.

Why are christians so judgemental about gay people, ...

This may be true of SOME christians, not all. There are plenty of christians who not judgmental about gay people.

I dont have a problem with them either, and have many friends who are. I think the general consensus with Christians is that they believe it is a lifestyle choice and not a characteristic you are born with...so You actually have a say in whether you are or are not homosexual...and choosing so is a sin. does that make sense?


It does make sense, But I don't believe people chose to be I think they are born that way, In a world that is so judgemental why would someone chose to be.

It does make sense, But I don't beleive people chose to be I think they are born that way, In a world that is so judgemental why would someone chose to be.

I agree with you... but to answer your question the bible says it is wrong, and therefore they believe a God would not make someone that way... therefore the believe it is a choice. But it just doesn't make sense to me that way... Its One of the main reasons I left the christian faith. Too many things that made no sense to me in the bible.

The bible was written by man and so his prejudices and his attitudes are ever present. The God that I understand judges the sin and the sinner, I am supposed only to love all my brothers and sisters.

If your question had the word "some" before Christians, it would be a very valid one :)

Some people are judgmental about __________. Fill in the blank as you please. Regardless of how it is filled in, the "people" being spoken of are themselves guilty of bigotry or at least unfairness - but often just ignorance... except if the item is an illegal one or one that means harm to someone.

I'm sure that's not quite worded as I'd word it if I sat for a time to compose something more profound, but that's it in a nutshell :)

Agree with Rick

Not all Christians are "judgemental about gay people," and
Likewise, and by implication, are all non-Christians [this wonderful ideal of] tolerant.

God is not tolerant of sin, otherwise He would not have sent Jesus to take the place for the consequences of mankind's sins.

All sins : pride, hate, homosexuality, lust etc...




Grace and Peace

Well said, Most religions go against people being gay, in that man was not created to be with another man. As mentioned above, nowhere in religious text does it say anything other than it is not considered proper, just like murder, just like fraud. In response to God hating gay people, that's not a fair statement, again mentioned above, God does not like sin period.

Everything wins my vote except sin.

Why are christians so judgemental about gay people, I am not gay but have friends and family that are. If god made everybody who made gay people if it is such a problem

My answer: I don't know. There are many judgemental people christian or not. The downfall of living in a fallen (sinful) world. We are asked to love sinner hate the sin. My brother is gay and I am a christian. I don't love him any differently or look at him any differently but I do believe what he is doing is a sin that he needs to personally deal with. Just like my temper is a sin that I need to personally deal with daily.

I don't understand why it's a sin. So gay people can never fall in love with someone an get married? That does not sound right.

The way it was explained to me when I was catholic was this:

Homosexual couples can not be married, and therefore, any homosexual who partakes in any sexual activity is doing so in sin, Seeing as you are to refrain from pre-marital sex. (sex before marriage is a sin)... What no one could ever explain to me is why the unsexual acts of homosexuality were wrong...

As for the rest of the people who are not christian and have problems, I simply think it was how they were taught. I think it is so wrong they treat people that way.

Why are christians so judgemental about gay people, I am not gay but have friends and family that are. If god made everybody who made gay people if it is such a problem
Well I'm christian and not all christens are like that but really it's not there fault my aunt is and I'm n not judgemental and hope that helps you!! >>>>

All people should be treated with dignity. The problem for me lies where sin is called a good thing. This is a great danger. When we view homosexual activity as just a beautiful expression between to lovers, we are ignoring the fact that there is a sin being committed. People may have an attraction to some one of the same gender. This does not mean they should then always act upon this attraction. Christians must call a sin a sin, but treat everyone with dignity, for after all we have all fallen short. This can be difficult to do with out coming off as sounding judgmental; however Christians should not hide the truth of our faith. Christians should not let modern culture shape doctrine. I believe this is at the heart of many reactions to homosexuality by the Christian faithful. The culture of today is declaring homosexual acts as non sinful. Because of the fall of man, sins abound; however under no circumstances should sins be approved of. We should remember as well, that all people are created in the image and likeness of God and should be treated as such.

I cannot speak for all people who label themselves as "Christian," but I can speak for myself:

The way I read it, I have no business judging or condemning anyone, which is good because I really don't think I'm qualified for the job.

I can, however, judge actions, but only for the purpose of providing loving education to the person in an effort to help them see how their actions are contrary to the Word of God. However, even this carries risks, and must be done with wisdom and love and within the boundaries of an already-established relationship with the person.

It's a funny thing, really. If today's Christians poured nearly as much effort into battling illegal narcotics in the world, we might actually begin to see a decrease in violence, crime, gang activity, and addictions. I don't have any stats, but I suspect that the number of people negatively affected by illegal drugs completely eclipses the number of people negatively affected by homosexuality.

I don't really know if I answered your question or not, but there you have it.

Nobody knows what really God thinks... But everybody should know that God is forgiving... and if He created a person with an opposite heart... it means He loves that person too... He loves all of his creation.

nobody knows what really God thinks....But everybody should know that God is forgiving...and if He created a person with an opposite heart...it means He loves that person too....He loves all of his creation.


Since we Christians have the Bible, which we consider God's message to mankind revealing his requiremernts and his personality so that we can serve him, what you are really saying is that you have chosen not to believe in the Bible, and that from your standpoint God is incomprehensible. Which of course opens up the way for the anything goes way of life. How convenient!

BTW

No Christian on this forum has represented God as unforgiving. What has been clearly pointed out is that he has requirements which he expects us to respectfully pay attention to. The unforgiving idea is your own.

what you are really saying is that you have chosen not to believe in the Bible, and that from your standpoint God is incomprehensible.
I am not christian and don't believe in the bible. I do believe in God, which makes your statement inaccurate.


Which of course opens up the way for the anything goes way of life. How convenient!


Sorry Stardude, My personal relationship with God, prevents me from doing just anything.

[QUOTE=Starman]Since we Christians have the Bible, which we consider God's message to mankind revealing his requiremernts and his personality so that we can serve him, what you are really saying is that you have chosen not to believe in the Bible,

I am a Catholic and I didn't say I don't believe in the Bible. Though word of God is written in it... It is MAN who wrote it... and knowing an old culture especially from middle east... don't you think it has been altered a little bit and it came from a different language... how does one know the translation we are reading is the real message that was written... when it was first translated... it was the time when nobody has a voice but those who were in higher position... Let's say a phrase like "Those who believe in Me will be saved"... what if you're not a Christian?. and you believe in another religion... but all your life you didn't hurt anybody... would that mean that you cannot be saved?. I think being a good person which usually have guilt feelings if he did something wrong and admit his wrong and ask for forgiveness is enough requirement.

I am a Catholic and I didn't say I don't believe in the Bible. Though word of God is written in it...It is MAN who wrote it...and knowing an old culture especially from middle east...don't you think it has been altered a little bit and it came from a different language...how does one know the the translation we are reading is the real message that was written...when it was first translated...it was the time when nobody has a voice but those who were in higher position... Let's say a phrase like "Those who believe in Me will be saved"...what if you're not a Christian?...and you believe in another religion...but all your life you didn't hurt anybody...would that mean that you cannot be saved?...I think being a good person which usually have guilt feelings if he did something wrong and admit his wrong and ask for forgiveness is enough requirement.

You may be interested in reading what the Catechism of the Catholic church says about the necessity of faith in salvation. Paragraphs 161, 162. And about Sacred Scripure. Paragraphs 101-133.

I am not christian and don't beleive in the bible. I do believe in God, which makes your statement inaccurate.

Sorry Stardude, My personal relationship with God, prevents me from doing just anything.


Clarrification:

Not that Bible rejection leads to doing anything without restriction. Simply that the restrictions of a Bible rejector need not harmonize with the Bible principles but can deviate at the person's discretion.

Example: If a person rejects the USA Constitution and chooses to make his own laws some of those laws might be contrary to what he Constitution says. It doesn't mean that he will do this, simply that his rejection of the Constitution opens up the way for this possibility to become a reality.

Clarrification:

Not that Bible rejection leads to doing anything without restriction. Simply that the restrictions of a Bible rejector need not harmonize with the Bible principles but can deviate at the person's discretion.


Fair enough. My point is that the God that I understand wants me to give Gay people as much respect as I do to christians, jews, and muslims, soccer moms, and any other human.

Fair enough. My point is that the God that I understand wants me to give Gay people as much respect as I do to christians, jews, and muslims, soccer moms, and any other human.




If by respect you mean not persecuting them or harassing them or depriving them of their rights to be self sufficient via violating their citizen rights or human rights-or otherwise being cruel simply because of their chosen lifestyle then I agree. However, if by respect you mean that we as Christians are under obligation not to point out what we believe God considers sinful, but should remain silent in order to show respect then I disagree, I guess that's where we differ.

As for love, the Bible tells us that making known God's requirements is an expression of agape love since it opens up the way to eternal life. In fact, keeping silent when we perceive another human being is in danger spiritually or is headed the wrong way is a sin. So it's not from a hating basis that Christians are making known God's requirements but from a position of concern for the eternal welfare of our fellow man.

So it's not from a hating basis that Christians are making known God's requirements but from a position of concern for the eternal welfare of our fellow man.
So its okay to lead the horse to water but if he doesn't choose to drink, Now what??

However, if by respect you mean that we as Christians are under obligation not to point out what we believe God considers sinful, but should remain silent in order to show respect then I disagree, I guess that's where we differ.


I could swear that somewhere in the bible it says "Judge not, lest ye be judged"

Hmm.

I could swear that somewhere in the bible it says "Judge not, lest ye be judged"

Hmm.


You feel judged? Wonder why?

So its okay to lead the horse to water but if he doesn't choose to drink, Now what????

Now he or she lives his or her life the way he or she wants to. Or is there something additional which I am supposed to do and am unaware of? Pray tell!

Now he or she lives his or her life the way he or she wants to. Or is there something additional which I am supposed to do and am unaware of? Pray tell!
No, just wanted an honest answer as to how far you'd go if the horse refused to drink. That's all. Take no offense, as my beef has always been with policy not people. If a simple and polite NO THANKS works when offered to drink from anothers cup its all good. That's not always the case, and not exclusive to christians either.

You feel judged? Wonder why?
I wasn't saying that I feel judged. In fact, I don't. I'm not really sure where you got that from. I'm just saying, it's not up to people to judge each other. If you're christian, then you can't decide what is sin and what isn't. You can interpret to your best ability what you think the bible says is sin, but since it does not state flat out that homosexuality is a sin, people have no right to infer that it is. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone upon her, judge not lest ye be judged, all that. It's up to God to judge whether something is a sin, and Jesus to forgive someone of that sin, if they are worthy.

And no, I'm not a Christian.

You may be interested in reading what the Catechism of the Catholic church says about the necessity of faith in salvation. Paragraphs 161, 162. And about Sacred Scripure. Paragraphs 101-133.

Thanks... even though I'm a catholic I don't believe in everything my church told me to believe in... that's why God gave us brain... so we can think for ourselves... coz if we don't... there would be only one Christian meta group and that would be Roman-Catholic. But since not everybody agreed with what they did... groups have been created or founded.

Anyway... as I've said... God loves all of his creation/children. And nobody or nothing can say otherwise.

BTW

No Christian on this forum has represented God as unforgiving. What has been clearly pointed out is that he has requirements which he expects us to respectfully pay attention to. The unforgiving idea is your own.
Didn't notice this before... requirements... all I know is God gave us hearts and brains so they could work together... you're not going to do something intentionally when you know it's going to hurt someone... are you?. I think that's the requirement needed... and besides... the requirements you're talking about... what if you failed to follow it... what then?. what if you failed to follow what the bible says... what then?. yeah... God is uncomprehensible... coz nobody really knows what He all of his thoughts are...

didn't notice this before...requirements...all i know is God gave us hearts and brains so they could work together...you're not going to do something intentionally when you know it's going to hurt someone...are you?...I think that's the requirement needed...and besides...the requirements you're talking about...what if you failed to follow it...what then?...what if you failed to follow what the bible says...what then?...yeah...God is uncomprehensible...coz nobody really knows what He all of his thoughts are...

God gave Adam a brain and a heart yet God required Adam to use that brain and heart in the way that he was instructed to.

Genesis 2:16-18 (New King James Version)

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
18 And the LORD God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.”

Not purposefdully harming others is a good rule. However, the word "harm" can mean many different things to many different people. That's why the Bible gives us details so that we can all be of the same mind in matters of such importance. Otherwise every man becomes a law unto himself and that leads to moral chaos which is incompatible with a God of order.

1 Corinthians 14:33 "God is not the author of confusion.

Philippians 3:16
Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.


The requirements and their consequences if not adhered to are no mystery to those who take the time to read the Bible. They are expressed clearly and are easily understood. Most probably what you really mean is that you don't agree with the requirements and the consequences as described in the Bible, prefer to cast the book aside as of little worth in reference to your moral decisions, and prefer to think God is incomprehensible. All of which is OK since you have a right to your opinion as I have a right to disagree with it.

Actually, this is nothing new:

Psalm 78:10
They did not keep the covenant of God;They refused to walk in His law,

Psalm 81:12
So I gave them over to their own stubborn heart,To walk in their own counsels.



BTW
If you don't wish to run into what you consider annoying biblical requirements why participate in a Biblical discussion forum?

BTW
If you don't wish to run into what you consider annoying biblical requirements why participate in a Biblical discussion forum?

The person who asked about the gay people didn't ask about the bible... but since Christians based everything on the bible... you're using quotes from the old testament... but shouldn't you be using the new testament? Since Christianity is really based on it?. and since you're using the old testament... I didn't read about not to be gay in the 10 commandments... isn't it the ultimate requirement?. and from what I know there's only one rule in the old testament... the golden rule... "Treat others only in ways that you're willing to be treated in the same exact situation"...

the person who asked about the gay people didn't ask about the bible...but since Christians based everything on the bible...you're using quotes from the old testament...but shouldn't you be using the new testament? since Christianity is really based on it?...and since you're using the old testament....i didn't read about not to be gay in the 10 commandments...isn't it the ultimate requirement?...and from what i know there's only one rule in the old testament...the golden rule ..."Treat others only in ways that you're willing to be treated in the same exact situation"...

There are three words in the questioner's question that require a biblical response-God, Christians, and judgemental.

Again, since this is a Christian discussion forum. To come here and expect everyone to ignore scripture which Christians consider sacred is irrational. It is also untrue that Christians only accept the NT. Christians accept the whole Bible as inspired of God and minister routinely quote liberally from both. It is considered ONE inspired book with one author-God and one message--salvation. Christianity is the culmination of all the things mentioned in the OT. A Bible study would be helpful in helping you to apreciate that very important fact.

No, there is no specific mention of homosexuality in the brief synopsis of the Ten Commandments. But there is mention in the detailed instructions based on the Ten commandments in the book of Deuteronomy and even in the New Testament itself. Or haven't you read either?

But as I said previously and on many other occasions, whether people want to pay attention to it or not is their personal choice. However, it's quite another thing to proclaim things which the Bible clearly tells us not to do as OK and demand that those who know better agree with you as you are doing. Might as well write your own "holy" book where all behavior YOU consider OK is approved. Ever consider that?


I can show you the scriptures referring to what you claim isn't found in the NT if you want me to. But considering your attitude, that would just further infuriate you or cause you to go into that accusatory mode of being judged by me.-which is absurd since I don't qualify for that particular judge of all humanity position.

BTW

That treat others as you want others to treat you is open to diverse cultural interpretations. That's why the Bible goes into specifics. And that's where you get annoyed.

I wasn't saying that I feel judged. In fact, I don't. I'm not really sure where you got that from. I'm just saying, it's not up to people to judge each other. If you're christian, then you can't decide what is sin and what isn't. You can interpret to your best ability what you think the bible says is sin, but since it does not state flat out that homosexuality is a sin, people have no right to infer that it is. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone upon her, judge not lest ye be judged, all that. It's up to God to judge wether somthing is a sin, and Jesus to forgive someone of that sin, if they are worthy.

And no, I'm not a Christian.


If you are not a Christian then why worry about what Christians say about your lifestyle? If I weren't a Christian I wouldn't give a frogs fat about what the Bible says or doesn't say. Neither would I be reading it or even mentioning it even less discussing it or debating it if I thought it was as disorganized and as open to all and any interpretation as you do. I would just live my life as I saw fit and let others waste their time with a book I considered veritably worthless. Make sense?

if you are not a Christian then why worry about what Christians say about your lifestyle? If I weren't a Christian I wouldn't give a frogs fat about what the Bible says or doesn't say. Neither would I be reading it or even mentioning it even less discussing it or debating it if I thought it was as disorganized and as open to all and any interpretation as you do. I would just live my life as I saw fit and let others waste their time with a book I considered veritably worthless. Make sense?

If I don't know anything about it, how am I supposed to know if I believe in it? And contrary to what christians might say about "my lifestyle," I'm not gay. Just because I believe that homosexuals should not be discriminated against, either in society OR in the christian religion, that doesn't mean I'm gay. In fact, I'm not even bisexual. I'm *gasp* straight! Just because I don't consider myself a Christian doesn't mean I shouldn't care about the bible. If you're not a Buddhist, should you not give a rats arse about inner peace? And I never said it was disorganized. Though you mention that I think it's open to all and any interpretation. I guess I was wrong about that. There is only one form of Christianity. All those different denominations of christian churches don't actually exist, I must have imagined them. I may not believe that everything stated in the bible is true, but it does teach several good lessons. Kudos go to christians who take those lessons into consideration (And I'm not talking about the psudo-christians like at the church I used to attend. You know the type... they're Christian on Sunday morning. The rest of the week, apparently God can't see what they're doing)

My point is, just because I don't consider myself a Christian doesn't mean I can't learn about Christianity. Knowing facts about what you don't believe is what makes arguments valid. If you can't see thing from another persons point of view, then what chance do you have of showing where you disagree and why? It would be like yelling at a brick wall.

As for the mention of my interpretation of what the bible says about humans judging each other, feel free to disagree. But like I said, see it from my point of view. Explain to me why you think that interpreation is invalid. Don't just say I shouldn't be interpreting it because I don't consider myself a Christian. It's almost as if you think saying "Oh, you don't believe? Well **** you then" will help someone spiritually. That's how I perceive this post, at least. Feel free to disagree with me, but only if you plan to give an explanation of your reasoning so that I might try to understand where your opinion comes from.

Sorry if I sound like an arse, but you CAN'T just tell me to F off (in a matter of speaking) without giving me a reason. The internet is about open exchange of information, and AMHD is about helping others, not telling them they shouldn't be in a specific forum.

I look forward to reading your well thought out reply.

Fear.

Fear what?

If I don't know anything about it, how am I supposed to know if I believe in it? And contrary to what Christians might say about "my lifestyle," I'm not gay. Just because I believe that homosexuals should not be discriminated against, either in society OR in the Christian religion,

I agree that homosexuals shouldn't be discriminated against. However, what you consider discrimination is lack of approval of lifestyle. If a Moslem doesn't live in accordance with the Koran and is told he is wrong and not really a Moslem--is he being discriminated against? Or if a president behaves in the Oval Office in a way that he is not supposed to according to the rules of presidential comportment, and is told--is he being discriminated against? If a monk breaks his vow of silence and is told that he should adhere to the rules-is he being discriminated against? So you see, its not really discrimination as you are perceiving it but merely a reminder that certain rules have to be respected. Nothing more. Nothing less. You wish biblical support for the rules, OK. Here are some scriptures that you can look up and read for yourself.

Leviticus 18:22

BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: Leviticus 18:21-23; (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2018:21-23;&version=15;)

Romans 1: 27

BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: Romans 1:26, 27; (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%201:%2027;&version=15;)


Jude 1: 7

BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: Jude 1: 7; (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jude%201:%207;&version=9;)

Levitucus 20: 13

BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: Leviticus (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/parser.php?search1=Leviticus+20%3A+13+&version1=9&showmoresearches=closed&showmoreversions=closed&pslookup_showfootnotes=yes&pslookup_showxrefs=)




that doesn't mean I'm gay. In fact, I'm not even bisexual. I'm *gasp* straight! Just because I don't consider myself a Christian doesn't mean I shouldn't care about the bible. If you're not a Buddhist, should you not give a rats arse about inner peace? And I never said it was disorganized.

Agreed, concern about inner peace can lead one to study the principles of Buddhism. I was referring however to people who wish to live their own way, don't view the Bible as authoritative, are determined to be a law unto themselves, but who simultaneously enjoy
Casting doubt on whatever the Bible says. However, I was wrong in assuming anything at all about your lifestyle. My apologies for my hasty unwarranted conclusion.



Though you mention that I think it's open to all and any interpretation. I guess I was wrong about that. There is only one form of Christianity. All those different denominations of Christian churches don't actually exist, I must have imagined them. I may not believe that everything stated in the bible is true, but it does teach several good lessons.

That different interpretations exist, they do. That all these interpretations are justified or equally valid--they aren't. That their existence proves that the Bible has no central theme which coherently unifies it and makes multiple interpretations Ok--it doesn't.



My point is, just because I don't consider myself a Christian doesn't mean I can't learn about Christianity. Knowing facts about what you don't believe is what makes arguments valid. If you can't see thing from another persons point of view, then what chance do you have of showing where you disagree and why? It would be like yelling at a brick wall.

Sorry, I was under the impression that you did fully understand where we disagreed and that you would continue to disagree. But let's give it another try and see if we can clarify things a little.

I agree, discussion is good and can lead to a broader understanding. I am not at all averse to discussing the reasons for Christian beliefs. I am however against a futile exercise in futility whereby 20 disagreements with 20 explanations provided are followed with twenty disagreements more with the explanations provided ad infinitum.


As for the mention of my interpretation of what the bible says about humans judging each other, feel free to disagree. But like I said, see it from my point of view. Explain to me why you think that interoperation is invalid. Don't just say I shouldn't be interpreting it because I don't consider myself a Christian. It's almost as if you think saying "Oh, you don't believe? Well **** you then" will help someone spiritually. That's how I perceive this post, at least. Feel free to disagree with me, but only if you plan to give an explanation of your reasoning so that I might try to understand where your opinion comes from.

No. I was simply trying to avoid the perpetual merry-go-round scenario and in that way preventing bus both from getting into an is! Is not! Contest. You see, my friend, when I said that my explanation was founded on scripture, you said that I was misinterpreting scripture. That in itself makes all further dialogue unproductive since any text proof I might present is under the threat of being immediately tagged as merely my particular interpretation. Of course you have a right to disagree with scripture. But please do so on some other ground than meaning when meaning is clear and really not an issue.



Sorry if I sound like an arse, but you CAN'T just tell me to F off (in a matter of speaking) without giving me a reason. The Internet is about open exchange of information, and AMHD is about helping others, not telling them they shouldn't be in a specific forum.

I look forward to reading your well thought out reply.

No, you don't sound that way at all. As a matter of fact, you sound like a reasonable person in search of answers. Also, please accept my apologies of I sounded the way that you say. It was not my intention to come across that way.

BTW

I didn't say they shouldn't be here. I said they shouldn't be surprised if scriptures are quoted in this forum.

Awesome. Thank you for clarifying, as you are one of the few people I have disagreed with that actually present a decent explanation of their position.

I agree that homosexuals shouldn't be discriminated against. However, what you consider discrimination is lack of approval of lifestyle. If a Moslem doesn't live in accordance with the Koran and is told he is wrong and not really a Moslem--is he being discriminated against? Or if a president behaves in the Oval Office in a way that he is not supposed to according to the rules of presidential comportment, and is told--is he being discriminated against? If a monk breaks his vow of silence and is told that he should adhere to the rules-is he being discriminated against? So you see, its not really discrimination as you are perceiving it but merely a reminder that certain rules have to be respected. Nothing more. Nothing less. You wish biblical support for the rules, OK. Here are some scriptures that you can look up and read for yourself.

I definitely see where you're coming from here. I think the difference in our opinion comes from the fact that I think homosexuality includes being in love with someone of the same sex, not just having intercourse with them. My interpretation basically is that man shall not lie with another man based on the fact that trying to procreate with man in the same way he would with woman is a sin. Though I don't agree with that, I do believe that other sexual acts besides intercourse are not referenced, nor is the ability to have feelings of love for someone of the same sex.


Agreed, concern about inner peace can lead one to study the principles of Budhism. I was referring however to people who wish to live their own way, don't view the Bible as authoritative, are determined to be a law unto themselves, but who simultaneously enjoy
casting doubt on whatever the Bible says. However, I was wrong in assuming anything at all about your lifestyle. My apologies for m,y hasty unwaranted conclusion.

No problem. It happens a lot, when I get into these type of situations.


That different interpretations exist, they do. That all these interpretations are justified or equally valid--they aren't. That their existence proves that the Bible has no central theme which coherently unifies it and makes multiple interpretations Ok--it doesn't.

Now, this is where I think we would get into the is/is not issue. I believe that each interpretation could be correct, as long as you follow the commantments. I think that basically, the rest of the bible is a guideline, and not specific rules. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to convice you otherwise, and likewise.


Sorry, I was under the impression that you did fully understand where we disagreed and that you would continue to disagree. But let's give it another try and see if we can clarify things a little.

I agree, discussion is good and can lead to a broader understanding. I am not at all averse to discussing the reasons for Christian beliefs. I am however against a futile exercise in futility whereby 20 disagreements with 20 explanations provided are followed with twenty disagreements more with the explanations provided ad infinitum.

Again, I agree. This would be pretty pointless.


No. I was simply trying to avoid the perpetual merry-go-round scenario and in that way preventing bus both from getting into an is! Is not! contest. You see, my friend, when I said that my explanation was founded on scripture, you said that I was misinterpreting scripture. That in itself makes all further dialogue unproductive since any text proof I might present is under the threat of being immediately tagged as merely my particular interpretation. Of course you have a right to disagree with scripture. But please do so on some other ground than meaning when meaning is clear and really not an issue.

I don't believe I ever said you were misinterpreting. If I did, I'm sorry. This goes along with my belief that different interpretations are valid, although I can see where most people think otherwise, as this would definitely account for several of the separate denominations that exist today.


No, you don't sound that way at all. As a matter of fact, you sound like a reasonable person in search of answers. Also, please accept my apologies of I sounded the way that you say. It was not my intention to come across that way.
BTW
I didn't say they shouldn't be here. I said they shouldn't be surprised if scriptures are quoted in this forum.
I wasn't sure if you meant it that way or not, but it sortof sounded like it to me. I now realise that you didn't mean to sound that way, and I appreciate your response. I'm sure you've seen your fair share of people just posting an opinion without any real reason, and not having any inclination to listen to what others might say about their opinion. It's always nice to be able to make your claims, and actually have an explanation of why other people disagree. There are far too many people who just like to get into shouting matches.

If I found out my son was gay I would love him just the same. His proclavity doesn't change who he is and what he is mentally and spiritually. He is a good person and that would never change.

B/c in the bible (their holly word) pish posh to me. It says god doesnt like gays. Well to me i think then that this "god" is a lier, fraud and time waster. It's different to be gay. So ppl get scared and go nuts. Just like they did to ppl with special gifts they called them witches. Bunch of crap to me.

Hello Raynefreak,

God never said he does not like gays, in fact God loves all people and that means exactly what the Bible says all people, Bi people, gay people, straight people and even those who have sexual habits that are perverted.
Notice that God set his son, Jesus to die for all, not just straight people. Read what it says:

John 3:16 (New King James Version)
"
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

2 Peter 3:9-11 (New King James Version)

9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us,[a] not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.


Just because someone is gay that does not mean God does not like gays. If a person is a thief, it does not mean God does not like them. God love them as brought out in the scripture above which states ""For God so "Loved the world" He gave His only begotten Son." That shows the amount that God love every person, not just those who are straight, but also gays and thieves, and murders, and those who committ immorality.

Notice what God does say he hates.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (New King James Version)
"9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."

God does hate the bad behavior of those who disobey his laws. God though does not hate the person. God does not destroy or judge the individual our of hate but because he loves each one of us individually, he warns us and if anyone looses their eternal life, it is the persons fault, not God's. God warns us and he does not want for anyone to die. Notice.

2 Peter 3:9 (New King James Version)
" 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us,[a] not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."

If someone has actions that God does not approve of, if that person loses their eternal life, That is not God's fault but the consquences of their actions or bad behavior. They brought the punishment and negative judgement on themselves. That is not God's Fault.

People who commit sin and go against God's laws, blame God, but it is not God's fault nor because God does not like them. God loves them so much he gave his only son to die for them. Do you have that much love for others? If people do not want to obey their Creator, then the judgement that is negative is their own fault. They do not like themselves. If they did, they would not abuse their bodies in any way that it was not created to be used.

The ones who disobey God's direct laws, should place the hate and fault on the right person, themselves!

Take care,
Hope12