Hello,
I have a question about child pornography laws. Recently my sister discovered
That her 20 year old son has been visiting many pornographic sites. After
Entering the sites to see what he was looking at, she discovered that most of
The sites that he visits feature underage 'models' posing in lingerie and thong
Underwear. Often, the teenage girls (who appeared to be between the ages of
13-17) were nude from the waist up. The occasional picture that she came across
Showed full body nudity, but never in a graphic or up-close manner.

She is concerned that these sites constitute child pornography. We live in
Vancouver, Canada, and have recently heard that the bill C-15A is a very
Stringent anti-child pornography law, making it illegal to even view such
Material.

Are these 'modeling' sites featuring underage girls posing nude and partially
Nude (but never overly explicitly) considered to be child pornography? Will her
Son be tracked by law enforcement officials, and indeed, can they even track
Someone for just viewing such material? My sister has since confronted "Victor"
About his behavior, and he says that he has never submitted a credit card number
Or personal information, and therefore believes that he can't be caught. We both
Aren't so sure about that, as many high profile arrests have occurred recently in
Canada. The police have ever-increasing surveillance techniques, and we have
Told Victor that he may have already compromised his future, and that he could
Be under surveillance for his online activity. However, we don't know this for
Sure.

Please help me clarify these laws for my nephew and sister. I certainly want
Victor to stop this terrible habit, but I don't want to tell him that he won't
Be able to get a good career and that he is being watched if he actually isn't.
If he limits his future activity (not that this should be encouraged of course!)
To looking at sites of this nature rather than more "hardcore" sites, will he
Still run the risk of being apprehended? Can he be tracked from his computer IP
Address? Is this how the system even works, or does it indeed take credit card
Information to discover where a person is perpetrating such a crime (if what he
Is doing is, after all, a crime)?

Thank you so much for providing this service, and thank you also for your help
And your time in replying to my question.

Sincerely,
Diane

First, pornography laws vary widely, but generally, illegal porn especially kiddie porn involves the depiction or simulation of a sex act involving minors. Simple nudity, partial or otherwise, is probably not illegal. Section 163.1 of the Canadian code defines child pornagraphy. The amendment you mentioned does strenghthen the penalities for exploiting children sexually.

Second, Victor is being foolish if he believes that not using a credit card or entering personal information means he isn't being tracked. There are other ways where the fact of his accessing such sites can be tracked. Even though the specific sites he has been accessing may not be illegal in themselves, they could be monitored under the assumption that an interest in them may lead to accessing illegal sites.

But the real issue here is his interest in such pictures. They indicate an unhealthy interest in underage girls that could lead to major problems. He needs to undergo counseling IMMEDIATELY!! And yes, if discovered, this could very well ruin his life.

Thank you for replying to my message ScottGem. That really helps our family out. So in conclusion you don't feel that such sites constitute anything illegal, and that we should not be concerned about the police becoming involved? Thanks for your insights - we appreciate it.
Diane

A lot of sites have disclaimers saying that while the models appear young they are all over 18, it would be hard to prove if the girls are in fact under 18 and if the site is well known and is based in Canada or the US chances are these are not underage models, but the fact is that if they look like they are underage and the sites make it seem like they are the question comes up is he actively searching for child porn?

I would have to agree that counseling might be a good idea. I read the bill c-15A and basically if the site does contain child porn and he actively views it (as in not just once, which could be an accident on someone's part) he could get up to 5 years.

Umm that's not what I said. Without seeing the sites, I can't say whether accessing them would be considered illegal or not. Its possible that, while the majority of images aren't illegal, there may be some that are. Even if Victor has stayed away from those images, just accessing the site might be a problem. In addition, accessing a site like that might be a flag that would cause law enforcement to watch the viewer more closely, even if they don't pursue action immediately.

But my main point is it doesn't matter whether the police will get involved or not. The fact that these images interest him and that he has actively tried to find them is a very large red flag. The fact that he has searched for such sites could also, even inadvertently, hook him into sites that are illegal.

Thank you for replying to my message ScottGem. That really helps our family out. So in conclusion you don't feel that such sites constitute anything illegal, and that we should not be concerned about the police becoming involved? Thanks for your insights - we appreciate it.
Diane

ScottGem made an excellent point.. I think based on your intitial question and your response here that you are trying to justify "Victor" viewing this material! I hope that is not the case. If these girls are underage or not and it is a crime or not; HE IS VIEWING ILLICIT MATERIAL THAT HE BELIEVES TO BE NUDE OR HALF-NUDE CHILDREN. Does that sound morally right.

I am not at all familiar with Canadian law but US law is very clear on this point and in the US viewing of explicit material (nude, semi-nude, sex acts, etc) of underage children (minors that cannot give consent) on the internet is considering child pornography and is a crime! No question about it.

Thank you everyone for you answers and input. I will take into consideration what each has said. Basically, I think that what you say with regards to "red flags" is very accurate; Victor should be sent to counselling of some kind and this is what I plan on recommending to my sister and brother-in-law. I will also share this information with them. Once again, thank you all so very much. It is truly of help, and also greatly appreciated.
Diane

I have been on some of these sites.

I'm 12 and I think porn is grossss. But some of my slightly older friends want to do modellin and we were looking at some teen modellin sites.

I did notice pictures of girls in thongs and stuff that looked even younger than myself.

I don't really see anything wrong with this unless like 40 year old guys are looking at it for the wrong reeasons

At the University of Alberta I was in a group course that actually created a pedo site and saw how many hits we got and there are a lot of sick untreated men out there, so Yeah those sites you are talking about are pedophile sites. The children are in legal poses and outfits but are in such narrow{pin pointed} frames that made me wonder where their parents are?! They stress the law and call it art. I can assure you that those sites above many have tracking history abilities that are as advanced as they come. The computer used in these searches has been Identified(as Diane said IP address). The police cannot keep up with the visitors on those sites and it is not illegal to view most of them. You cannot download anything from those sites because I believe that is illegal. That is where people get in trouble, they accept a free video or what ever and click it. It is virtually impossible to remove it from your computer and what illegal data sent would then be known by the sender. To download children in any sexual form or in full nudity is illegal in Canada, but the odds of the police knocking on the door are slim.

A lot of those sites are actually set up by the government in order to arrest predators. They have them all linked together in order to lure pedophiles in. A lot of men will stay in the safe zones but usually explore deeper. But I would never trust anyone who says they have not downloaded off these sites if they are visiting them. And we all agree obviously this young man needs help because if he is taking a risk like the one he has taken on someone else's computer, what other risks is he willing to make in order to satisfy this need he has?

And yes Katekatekate 40 year old guys are looking at it for the wrong reasons.

I don't understand then.

Do parents let the girls go get these underwear pics taken or do they do it behind theyr backs.

Is it leggal for them to do that even?

A lot of it is nudists and naturists that don't or do know what is going on. Also I think people are tricked in newspaper ads and want their kids photos taken. They really don't know that the pictures that are being used are the shots of reveal". Details are not fun in this one. But a man can take 500 shots of a little girl and she could pose in many ways like doing the splits and whatnots... Then he only uses the more revealing photos on the pedo site. Parents are trusting and vulnerable and have no idea where the photos are going as they are paid a small flat rate and they don't realize that his zoom was on a certain area of the body. But that is a guess, I would like the answer to that one as well. Anyone else have any idea as to how these photos are obtained with what is seemingly thousands of normal living children?

I'm going to have a look around at them.

Cani get in trouble? I don't want to see the police at the door ha

Ummm... I really wouldn't do that because your dad or someone close to you, {even you} may get blamed for going to those sites. It's a little taboo even for a 12 year old girl. Take my advice. :-)

Is it me or are people avoiding this subject? lol

Actually the question was asked and answered on 8/15. Kate revived it today (unnecessarily).

Laugh's... OK. I swear I just realized that before I saw your post here. I can't believe I was duped by a 12 yr old. LOL, I really need to pay more attention to dates. All this wasted typing. Thanks Scott, I saw your clown pics by the way VERY NICE!

Yeah we need to be careful about dates. I've seen thread more than 2 years old revived by people who don't look.

Sorrry :(

I'm new on here, I just didn't know

LOL... I know. I still make the mistake because they come up all the time in related areas. If I'm talking to someone about cancer, @ the bottom of the screen will be related issues from the past... Accept they may be really old. You can see the date on the top left corner usually when you are looking at topics.