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boazmoses
Aug 9, 2007, 02:56 PM
I've read through a bunch of threads and still have not found an answer yet.
I have an HS29 Outdoor A/C unit. I turn it to "cool" and the outside unit clicks and then hums.
The inside furnace blower blows, but there is no cold air because the outdoor unit isn't working.
I have ordered a new dual capacitor, but that didn't solve the problem.
The fan blades move freely when I spin them.
Would the condenser still come on without the fan working, and vice versa?
What are my other options? The unit is only 4 years old, and I don't really want to pay someone millions to fix this.
Could it have something to do with fuses on inside of furnace even even the outside clicks? I tried flipping the breakers also and it didn't work.
My wife is 7 months pregnant and is starting shoot flames out of her mouth!

acetc
Aug 9, 2007, 03:11 PM
Check the breakers and fuses, the hum that you hear might be the contactor humming, it gets its power from the indoor unit that is on a sepatate breaker.
Try pushing in the contactor with a stick or something that won't shock you.
Some times you have to push the breaker in the off position to reset them.
The fuses are in a box mounted next to a/c on wall.

XenoSapien
Aug 9, 2007, 03:17 PM
Acetc is right--hum sounds definitely like the contactor.

You're getting power to the unit (if you have a volt-meter, you should have 24 volts going into the contactor, and 220 going out of the contactor), which is good.

If you have 220 (or required amount of voltage), disconnect your power to the outside unit, take the condenser motor out, and look at the wires that directly connect into the compressor (their should be something like a cap that covers them). Perhaps one of them is burnt or not making contact.

XenoSapien

boazmoses
Aug 9, 2007, 03:22 PM
I have tried turning the unit on and watching the relay switch actually "switch" next to the capacitor, so it seems like that is still working. Does the compressor have to be running in order for the compressor fan to run?

acetc
Aug 9, 2007, 03:24 PM
Look at the capacitor is it ballooned out on top? If the cap. Is bad sometimes neither will work, they normally will work independently of one another ,If one is bad the other will run.

boazmoses
Aug 9, 2007, 03:24 PM
Also the breaker box on the outside is one that has one of those big "plugs" in it, I don't really see where there is a problem with that, it doesn't look like anything can "trip" in that box anyway.
The capacitor is brand new

acetc
Aug 9, 2007, 03:28 PM
That plug will pull out and there should be fuses in this box.
You may have to remove a metal cover to see the fuses

boazmoses
Aug 9, 2007, 04:05 PM
But if I'm getting a click, it probably isn't that, right?

boazmoses
Aug 9, 2007, 04:11 PM
Also... is there any easier way to test a capacitor other than an ohm reader... I don't have one and don't really want to buy one if it isn't the capacitor problem?

XenoSapien
Aug 9, 2007, 04:41 PM
The capacitor is not the problem.

XenoSapien

boazmoses
Aug 9, 2007, 04:46 PM
Now I'm lost

XenoSapien
Aug 9, 2007, 04:51 PM
I'll repost:

You're getting power to the unit (if you have a volt-meter, you should have 24 volts going into the contactor, and 220 going out of the contactor), which is good.

If you have 220 (or required amount of voltage), disconnect your power to the outside unit, take the condenser motor out, and look at the wires that directly connect into the compressor (their should be something like a cap that covers them). Perhaps one of them is burnt or not making contact.

XenoSapien

boazmoses
Aug 9, 2007, 04:54 PM
I checked that - and it is a very new model so all of the wires are encased in a rubber plug that plugs into the compressor - all of the contacts looked good

acetc
Aug 9, 2007, 05:26 PM
Look in the disconnect box for burnt wires and in the breaker panel for the same , it appears you have no line voltage to the outdoor unit.

XenoSapien
Aug 9, 2007, 05:32 PM
But if the contactor is pulling, then he has power to the outside unit. If he's getting 220v after the contactor, he's got power to the compressor.

XenoSapien

boazmoses
Aug 9, 2007, 05:43 PM
I've checked the relay for burnt connections, the compressor, the electrical box on my outside wall next to the unit, and pretty much all of the connections within the unit. Unless there's something I'm missing within the relay that I cannot see, but it seems to function fine when it switches on.

acetc
Aug 9, 2007, 05:44 PM
The contactor receives 24 volt control power from the furnace transformer and makes the contactor function, the line voltage does not have to be there for this to happen, thus the reason I suggest checking for no line voltage to the out side unit, he hears the contactor pull in but no compressor and no fan, either bad capacitor , burnt wire , bad fuses, bad breaker.
Hard to diagnose with out a voltmeter.

boazmoses
Aug 9, 2007, 05:44 PM
Also... My old capacitor (that I thought was the problem) doesn't have a bulge or anything in it, just a little rust. But I put the new one on, and the same thing is happening.

boazmoses
Aug 9, 2007, 05:45 PM
I have flipped the 220 breaker for the unit off, and left the furnace breaker on, and I still get the click on the a/c unit.

acetc
Aug 9, 2007, 05:55 PM
Which is what I said that the contactor gets its power from the furnace, you need a volt meter now to isolate the problem, if you had a voltmeter you could start at the breaker and varify voltage then at the disconnect and then at the unit, you know some one with a meter or purchased one (you could buy a cheap one for about 12. Dollars at a hardware store.) they are very easy to use.

boazmoses
Aug 9, 2007, 06:00 PM
Ok, cool, that is what I will do, then I will let you guys know.
The two of you have been very... very helpful!!

Thank you

acetc
Aug 9, 2007, 06:05 PM
I know what you have been through and I hope this works ,let us know, please , Mike

hvacservicetech_07
Aug 9, 2007, 10:05 PM
Sounds like you have no voltage. Are you sure you have the capacitor hooked up correctly? You will need a voltage meter, without one there isn't anything we can do.

boazmoses
Aug 10, 2007, 08:51 AM
So I bought a voltage tester... Seems to me that everything going to and from the relay has 120v except for one black wire that is 24v and one black wire that has 0v. So I'm going to test my breaker in the basement. I tested both of my capacitors ohms, and they both gradually increase-which is good, right?

acetc
Aug 10, 2007, 09:43 AM
It sounds like you have one leg of power that is dead,( blown fuse or loose connection, bad breaker) you should be reading 220 volts across the two wires going to the a/c from the breaker.

boazmoses
Aug 10, 2007, 09:55 AM
I'm getting that--so 120v to each side of the relay ---120v coming off form each terminal of the capacitor--120v going to both the condenser and the fan, all of that is constant even when switched off. Then when I switch it to cool the relay makes a noise and then I have 24v coming off from one of the black wires. But there is a black wire on the other side of the relay that always reads 0v even off and switched on.

acetc
Aug 10, 2007, 10:15 AM
Start at the incoming two wires , with the two leads from the meter put one on one wire and one on the other wire ,you should be reading 220 volts here, if not the you need to go to the breaker , with breaker turned on , place the two leads of the meter on the two wires leaving the breaker, you should read 220 volts, if not then you have a bad breaker.
The capacitor in the a/c will only have one side of the incoming power and that is the 120v. That you are reading when measured to ground.
You should have 220 volts to the contactor and from the contactor(both sides).

boazmoses
Aug 10, 2007, 02:08 PM
I've got all that... so it must be that either my compressor is gone or the fan.
On a dual capacitor, would the fan work without the compressor, and vice versa?
They both aren't working, that's why I'm thinking it's something in the relay.

acetc
Aug 10, 2007, 02:51 PM
The only part that would keep the fan and compressor from running is a duel capacitor because it serves both, that is to say the contactor is closed and you have 220 volts entering the contactor and leaving the contactor when measuring the volts across the two wires entering and leaving the contactor. Is there anything in the contacts, like a bug or spider that would prevent a good contact of the center bar in the contactor?

boazmoses
Aug 10, 2007, 03:09 PM
I thought I looked all over for junk in there, but I'll look again.
I read another forum that said it might be a high-limit switch, but I can't find it on my unit.
This is really starting to bug me, I hate it when I can't fix things.

acetc
Aug 10, 2007, 03:22 PM
There is no high limit , that's in the furnace. In your checking for voltage did you varify 220 volts any where in your outdoor unit? You mention 120 volts but there has to be 220v.

boazmoses
Aug 10, 2007, 04:06 PM
Yes, I was getting 120v on each the black and white to equal the 220.
So, I know that I'm getting the right power from my main panel. I just can't figure out if it is in th relay or something else.

boazmoses
Aug 10, 2007, 04:39 PM
WOO-HOO!! I figured it out!! After I turned the air on @ the thermostat I went out to the unit and started tapping on the relay switch and got some sparks and then it turned on. Now when it cycles, it doesn't turn on--I have to manually set the relay switch.
So I should just be able to order a new relay switch.
Thanks for all of your help guys, it was great!!

acetc
Aug 10, 2007, 05:13 PM
Some times the slide mechanism gets rusty and will stick, if the control voltage is low ,21 volts or less it won't pull in.
If bugs get in it it will not work as well. You just may have to replace it to solve the problem.

boazmoses
Aug 10, 2007, 05:28 PM
Thank you very much!!