Unless u were raped

I agree, there is one part of canada that it is still illegal by law.

Edit:::::

I believe it is murder to kill an unborn baby. Strong statement but I have always made that statement. It is a true, and all life is precious.

I would also like to add, that a rape victim becoming pregnant. Should the baby die because of the fathers sin, the answer. No.

I believe that adoption should be considered first, but some women cannot give up a baby they've carried for 9 months, so then they go on to try and take care of a baby when they financially, physically, or mentally cannot.

If you do not feel that you could give up a baby for adoption, I think it would be best to have an abortion. I am totally pro-life, but I also would rather a baby be aborted early on than have it not being taken care of the way it should. :)

Wow, you really have some issues. First you are curious about whether you have a STD, then you say you are a lesbian who wants to marry a man, you want to marry your girl who wants to marry her man, you want to have a baby with your lesbian girlfriend with a man and want to know how using a turkey baster, then you come in with cutting yourself and you low self esteem.

Understand that in reality you need some help. PROFESSIONAL help. We can't help you here in the depth that you need it.

Or are you just playing us?

See here

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/marriage/marrying-2-people-same-time-113491.html

And

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/mental-emotional-health/want-these-too-scars-how-114452.html

And here

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/adult-sexuality/if-have-std-114145.html

So, can you please explain what is up so that we can help you? Or, please stop messing around.

It's always a personal decision, pro choice. It's so hard to pick a side

Best method of abortion-prevention

Abortion is an issue which needs serious consideration.

Abortion should be allowed in cases where carrying the baby to term will be considered dangerous/life threatening to the health of the mother...

In cases like rape, it must be hard to keep a baby of the rapist,but isn't it also the mothers own flesh and blood?

Just my opinion...
-----------------------------
http://www.motherhelp.info/rape_pregnancy.htm
"Pregnancy Resulting from Rape - consequences, what to think about.
If you have been raped, yet you plan to give birth then you may be interested to know that many mothers have loved a child conceived in rape. And many natural mothers whose child was conceived in rape, then adopted-out grieve the loss of their son or daughter for a life-time."

http://www.secasa.com.au/index.php/survivors/4/151

Hope these links provide something more than opinion... HOPE! :)

Yes abortion is murder, and a growing industry with millions of dollars of backing. I do believe over time we will see further restrictions in its use.

I will agree with J9, as to your issues of posting

No not unless you were raped! Was it the little child's fault that some horrible man did that to you? NO just as much as it was not your fault. Have the baby and give them up for adoption. THE LOGIC OF THIS NATION SICKENS ME.
Ok... lets ask, why then do you think it should be illegal? Because its murder possibly? But no, if a rapists sperm fertilized your egg then its not human. So no murder right?
Are you mentally handicapped?

Actually never mind. I do believe in abortion in the case of rape.
But abort that rapist not the innocent little child growing in your womb.

I had my first ultrasound at 8 weeks and the doctor labeled it baby. Because yes, it is a baby even though it is less than an inch big and weighs about the size of a paper clip. It is a baby. I am against abortion. I think there are so many other options out there besides having an abortion.

Yup, and before Roe vs Wade my brother-in-laws birth mother tried an at-home abortion, because it was illegal. He was born, adopted by my in-laws and at the age of 6 found out that he was mentally challenged. Why you ask? Because abortion was against the law, she tried an at-home coat hanger abortion and now he and his adoptive family suffer the consequences.

I am pro-birth control. If you don't think you can handle a child, use some sort of birth control.

Illegal.

Only exception would be mother's life as unanimously determined by 3 obstetricians with no vested interest in the case.




Grace and Peace

Call me nuts, but I think if a soul wants to enter this world it will find a way. I would rather a woman have an abortion legally than in some back alley, have the baby and toss it, or abuse it all of its life.

Call me nuts, but I think if a soul wants to enter this world it will find a way. I would rather a woman have an abortion legally than in some back alley, have the baby and toss it, or abuse it all of its life.


Exactly. That is what I was trying to get at in my earlier post. A woman dumped a baby in a dumpster here in Jacksonville just last week. Stuff like that makes me sick. We have "surrender sites" here where you can just take your baby and drop it off, no questions asked. Luckily, that baby in last week's incident lived. There are a large number that aren't that lucky.

We had some teenagersin Ohio put one in the garbage, it died. The garbage man found it in a black garbage bag.(foot sticking out) I would have rather seen it aborted than for it to have been tortured to death at full term. Any way you go about it is sad but... I think some people will always be irresponsible.

Stuff like that actually makes me cry. I didn't used to be so sensitive to subjects like this, but now that I have children of my own it opened my eyes up a whole lot. I even wish they would leave an unwanted baby on someone's doorstep, like you see in the movies. I mean at least SOMEONE would be able to help that poor child.

Exactly. Luckily, that baby in last week's incident lived. There are a large number that arent that lucky.

I too hate it when people try to take lives of innocent children just because of their/others mistakes... but I do sometimes wonder if the baby is lucky to be alive rather than dead as death will be peaceful for the innocent souls when they return to the Almighty and being alive amongst such cruelity...

I too hate it when people try to take lives of innocent children just because of their/others mistakes...but I do sometimes wonder if the baby is lucky to be alive rather than dead as death will be peaceful for the innocent souls when they return to the Almighty and being alive amongst such cruelity.....

I totally agree with you. But its just the WAY the parents go about doing things is what makes me so upset. There are so many other alternatives to throwing them in the dumpster.

When I was in high school I remember an incident from another town where a girl had her baby in a public bathroom that was in a park, and left it in the toilet to die. How could anyone be so cruel and heartless?

I totally agree with you. But its just the WAY the parents go about doing things is what makes me so upset. There are so many other alternatives to throwing them in the dumpster.

When I was in high school I remember an incident from another town where a girl had her baby in a public bathroom that was in a park, and left it in the toilet to die. How could anyone be so cruel and heartless?

Not to sound like I am a religious fanatic, but for us muslims the rules/regulations regarding fornication/adultery is very strict and incidents like the one you mentioned makes my belief stronger in that the Almighty sent down strict laws as He alone knows how cruel humans could be to unwanted babies.
For us illegitimate sex (sex outiside of marriage is a Sin (though many disobey this rule too)), and I guess this rule is a prevention of such incidents happening and saving mothers(fathers too sometimes are involved and some family member/friend) from taking such rash decisions to kill a life and/or abondan helpless babies into a life of rejection/retardation.

Abortion is infant murder. There are millions of families that would like to have a kid but can't for various reasons, they would love to have a kid to abopt.

Sorry if I offended anyone dealing with the holy trinity and catholics.

I say that abortion should remain legal.

PROVING rape or incest takes longer than the 9 months a woman is pregnant, as a general rule. Making abortion legal in those cases only would create a HUGE level of falsely accused rapists.

Mother's life in danger? So... only if her PHSYICAL life is in danger, not her emotional well-being, or her mental capacity to deal with a child? We allow women to go to shelters if someone is committing any kind of abuse on the, and emotional and mental abuse are as valid as physical abuse. Why is taking her physical capability into effect the only way that counts?

As for those of you pushing adoption instead of abortion---I hope someone in your family chooses adoption instead of abortion, and deprives you from seeing a child you care about for the rest of that child's life, and see how it affects you. Your daughter, your sister, your best friend. Blithely offering adoption as a way to fix things because "some poor couple out there could love and take care of your child" is stupid. There are plenty of valid reasons out there for choosing adoption. One should not be pressured because someone they don't even know wants a BABY instead of an older child.

As far as raising a child one doesn't want at all, but can't bring to place for adoption---would YOU want to be the child that has a mother that resents it for the rest of her life for taking away her youth, her time to have fun, chances at so many things? Yes, I know that the mother makes that choice when she chooses to have the child--but I know a few people that wish they would have not been born because of the kind of parents they had.

My solution to the abortion problem? Automatic birth control required by the state at age 13 for both boys and girls, removed only when a basic test of parenting skills and common sense is passed. Take away the RIGHT to have a baby, and make it a PRIVILEGE.

Addressing your statement that its good for the baby to be killed in the womb rather than having to live with an unloving mother... then you must also believe that if someone wants to kill themselves, let them?

I agree, there is one part of canada that it is still illegal by law.

Edit:::::

I believe it is murder to kill an unborn baby. Strong statement but I have always made that statement. It is a true, and all life is precious.

I would also like to add, that a rape victim becoming pregnant. Should the baby die because of the fathers sin, the answer. No.




I agree with you and God is the one who decides when it's our time to go and how dare we take babies into our own hands and kill them!! God prepares these babies in our womb for a reason and we know it is NOT to kill them!!

IF YOU ARE PREGNANT... IT'S A BABY!!

I say that abortion should remain legal.

PROVING rape or incest takes longer than the 9 months a woman is pregnant, as a general rule. Making abortion legal in those cases only would create a HUGE level of falsely accused rapists.

Mother's life in danger? So....only if her PHSYICAL life is in danger, not her emotional well-being, or her mental capacity to deal with a child? We allow women to go to shelters if someone is committing any kind of abuse on the, and emotional and mental abuse are as valid as physical abuse. Why is taking her physical capability into effect the only way that counts?

As for those of you pushing adoption instead of abortion---I hope someone in your family chooses adoption instead of abortion, and deprives you from seeing a child you care about for the rest of that child's life, and see how it affects you. Your daughter, your sister, your best friend. Blithely offering adoption as a way to fix things because "some poor couple out there could love and take care of your child" is stupid. There are plenty of valid reasons out there for choosing adoption. One should not be pressured because someone they dont' even know wants a BABY instead of an older child.

As far as raising a child one doesn't want at all, but can't bring to place for adoption---would YOU want to be the child that has a mother that resents it for the rest of her life for taking away her youth, her time to have fun, chances at so many things? Yes, I know that the mother makes that choice when she chooses to have the child--but I know a few people that wish they would have not been born because of the kind of parents they had.

My solution to the abortion problem? Automatic birth control required by the state at age 13 for both boys and girls, removed only when a basic test of parenting skills and common sense is passed. Take away the RIGHT to have a baby, and make it a PRIVILEGE.



First paragraph
Agree

Second paragraph
Abortion is an invasive procedure and carries a finite physical risk
There are emotional and psychological consequences to having an abortion

Last paragraph
Who would implement this? The government? They would not only be in our bedroom
But in our reproductive organs?








Grace and Peace

Last paragraph
Who would implement this? The government? They would not only be in our bedroom
but in our reproductive organs?Agreed, which is why it is perverse to make a law surrounding abortion.

I agree very much. Heck, I'm pregnant right now, and everyone is telling me I should get one. They're lucky I'm pregnant or I would actually kick their a$$'s despite their friendships. It's honestly a little person no matter how you put it.
Yes, rape is another thing but I (hate mentioning it but will for the sake of arguement) have been raped and I thought i was pregnant and I still would have kept it had I been pregnant.

--of course I think that if you should be aloud one if you were raped of something like that... but as my point above shows, I strongly disagree with abortion.

I personally would never make the choice to abort a child. I think it is wrong for me, but I am Pro-Choice

I don't think that the government should have any say in whether that woman whould keep a child or not. It is her body. I agree with Synnen whole-heartedly, adoption is not any easier than abortion. Both options will haunt the mother for the rest of her life. You all say there are millions of parents out there who want a child... then why are there millions of children out there who want loving parents?? What you mean to say is don't waste a baby people want that, but they don't want the already living children who are wonderful creatures... that is wrong. Our orphanages are over populated as it is. Sure adoption is a lot more moral than abortion, but no one has the right to tell anyone else whether it is right for them.

Now IM not talking partial birth abortion or anything, I agree that is so wrong, you should have made a decision by that point. That child, if born, could thrive outside the womb. But to say that a girl who made a difficult decision to abort a baby at 8 weeks along is killing something, I draw the line... the baby could never thrive on its own.

People who feel so strongly about this, have probably never been in the situation of having to choose. If you were ever in that situation, you may think differently about your opinions. I don't believe in saying abortion is wrong EXCEPT in "insert situation here". Abortion has many faces, and there are many reasons people choose it, many we will never understand without being in that place, but we have no right to tell somewhat that what they do to their body is wrong, simply because it is not what we would do personally. The government definitely has no right telling us that.

I don't mean to sound harsh here, This is just my opinion, I have thought long and hard about this subject, and this is the only way for me to view it..

Well said angel. That is exactly how I feel about abortion as well. Took the words from my mouth.

Now IM not talking partial birth abortion or anything, I agree that is so wrong, you should have made a decision by that point. That child, if born, could thrive outside the womb. But to say that a girl who made a difficult decision to abort a baby at 8 weeks along is killing something, I draw the line... the baby could never thrive on its own.

Read this:

Real Life: Why I Chose Abortion - Page1 -  MSN Lifestyle - Mind, Body & Soul (http://lifestyle.msn.com/mindbodyandsoul/womenintheworld/articlemc.aspx?cp-documentid=4595719&page=1)

And you might change your mind on partial-birth abortions, which is a disgusting name thought up by the people who got them banned. For those of you against abortion this article will make no difference, but maybe, just maybe, it will give you some perspective.

Pro-choice - my body, my decision.

EDIT: This thread is going to get ugly.

One of my friends is a rape baby and she is the best person ever now think if her mom would have had an abortion because she was raped!! IT IS NOT THE BABIES FAULT OR THE MOTHERS!!

Good link Jillian. I agree those women should also have the choice. While I hate to think it would be legal to kill a healthy baby, I can't really have one and not the other, You have successfully moved me fully to the other side on the Partial birth topic.

unless u were raped

What's stopping a woman from claiming to be raped? Not all rapes are violent, so a physical exam wouldn't prove if she lied or not.

Why on earth would a woman claim to be raped when she hasn't?

Some might just be that desperate to end a pregnancy. Did we ever find out with the Duke Lacrosse team rape case... I know those guys were found innocent, but was she actually raped or not? Can't remember.

Not saying I could ever do it myself. But a woman who wants to end her pregnancy will. Legal or not.

My cousin is a product of rape. Thank God his mother didn't do it... I can't imagine life without him. To each their own, I guess.

PROVING rape or incest takes longer than the 9 months a woman is pregnant, as a general rule. Making abortion legal in those cases only would create a HUGE level of falsely accused rapists.

That's what I was meaning ;)

good link Jillian. I agree those women should also have the choice. While I hate to think it would be legal to kill a healthy baby, I can't really have one and not the other, You have successfully moved me fully to the other side on the Partial birth topic.

It changed my mind too. I never considered there would be a legitimate reason to terminate after the first trimester until I read that story. I saw it a few months ago and bookmarked it because I knew I would want to reference it one day. I felt so bad for the woman while reading it, it nearly drove me to tears. My sister-in-law was pregnant with her second child, and two of my best friends had recently found out they were pregnant. All I could think was, "What if this happens to one of them? What choice will they have?" Apparently, none.

I agree with you and God is the one who decides when it's our time to go and how dare we take babies into our own hands and kill them!!!! God prepares these babies in our womb for a reason and we know it is NOT to kill them!!!!!

IF YOU ARE PREGNANT......................IT'S A BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If, as you say, God makes the decision, then how can you say that God hasn't made the decision in the case of an abortion? Maybe God has chosen that it's that child's time to go via the route of abortion!

For those who say except in the case of rape or the health of the mother, you are on a slippery slope. If abortion is wrong then it should be wrong no matter what the justification. As soon as you make ANY exceptions, you put it back in the hands of the woman's choice.

And that is where, In my opinion, it belongs. I, personally, do not agree with abortion. I would not counsel anyone to have one. But I don't believe that I can impose my personal beliefs on anyone else. If they make the decision then they should have the option. As others have mentioned, women will seek abortions whether its legal or not. I would prefer not to go back to the coat hanger days.

And back to the OP. I agree with J_9, you have some serious issues that you need to work out.

Read this:

Real Life: Why I Chose Abortion - Page1 -  MSN Lifestyle - Mind, Body & Soul (http://lifestyle.msn.com/mindbodyandsoul/womenintheworld/articlemc.aspx?cp-documentid=4595719&page=1)

And you might change your mind on partial-birth abortions, which is a disgusting name thought up by the people who got them banned. For those of you against abortion this article will make no difference, but maybe, just maybe, it will give you some perspective.

Pro-choice - my body, my decision.

EDIT: This thread is going to get ugly.

Oh my gosh, that just made me cry :(

I wonder how many of you have been in the position to have to choose between having an abortion or giving a child up for adoption.

Just how many of you, out of curiosity, have truly been stuck between that rock and that hard place? I bet I could count the number of you on one hand that have been in this position.

This is a very hard decision to make. It is also a very personal decision to make. The government should not be able to make this decision for us. If it does, then we resort to back alley abortions again, like the one that disabled my brother-in-law, and killed many women due to less than safe practices.

I'm neutrαl with the situαtion- yes I think αbortion is not α very good option, αnd to those who think αbortion is like αnother method of birth control αnd treαt it like some gαrbαge dispenser I definαtely think it's wrong!!

rαpe victims, unplαnned pregnαncy... etc. bottom line it's your decision αnd α big one- your killing α bαby 1 week- 30weeks whαtever it's still tαking the life out of someone αnd your going to hαve to deαl with it for the rest of your life.

Like I sαid I'm not PRO life or with αbortions I'm neutrαl.. Get your tubes tied or your wαnkies snipped if you don't wαnt αny goddαmn children!!

embryos, fetuses, bαbies whαtever you mαy cαll it αre still humαns they're living.. just becαuse α tαdpole doesn't look like α frog does it meαn it is not α frog?? -- think αbout it-- your mαking α big choice here..

in my opinion: αbortion should be legαl [if your doing it illegαlly chαnces αre you cαn't sue if you fαll under α mαl-prαctice, being legαl meαns α more sαfer "surgery"] but before getting one they should hαve councilors/therαpists consulting you before the αbortion.. αnd like the one stαte did you should αlso get αn ultrαsound!-- big decisions people..big!

I wonder how many of you have been in the position to have to choose between having an abortion or giving a child up for adoption.

Just how many of you, out of curiosity, have truly been stuck between that rock and that hard place? I bet I could count the number of you on one hand that have been in this position.

This is a very hard decision to make. It is also a very personal decision to make. The government should not be able to make this decision for us. If it does, then we resort to back alley abortions again, like the one that disabled my brother-in-law, and killed many women due to less than safe practices.

Exactly why I don't judge. I can't.

i'm neutrαl with the situαtion- yes i think αbortion is not α very good option, αnd to those who think αbortion is like αnother method of birth control αnd treαt it like some gαrbαge dispenser i definαtely think it's wrong!!!

rαpe victims, unplαnned pregnαncy...etc. bottom line it's your decision αnd α big one- your killing α bαby 1 week- 30weeks whαtever it's still tαking the life out of someone αnd your going to hαve to deαl with it for the rest of your life.

like i sαid i'm not PRO life or with αbortions i'm neutrαl.. get your tubes tied or your wαnkies snipped if you don't wαnt αny goddαmn children!!!

embryos, fetuses, bαbies whαtever you mαy cαll it αre still humαns they're living.. just becαuse α tαdpole doesn't look like α frog does it meαn it is not α frog?? -- think αbout it-- your mαking α big choice here..

in my opinion: αbortion should be legαl [if your doing it illegαlly chαnces αre you cαn't sue if you fαll under α mαl-prαctice, being legαl meαns α more sαfer "surgery"] but before getting one they should hαve councilors/therαpists consulting you before the αbortion.. αnd like the one stαte did you should αlso get αn ultrαsound!-- big decisions people..big!

Guess you didn't read the link did you Sarai? Let's say that you are pregnant and you find out that your child has multiple chromosomal abnormalities, probably, most likely will not live past the age of 1 hour, what would you do?

What would you do if you found out that due to a rare anomaly that the fetus inside you is slowly eating away at you and you may live through the 9 months of pregnancy? What would you do?

Like I sαid I'm not αgαinst it J_9 or for it--

I would still keep the bαby though.. I wouldn't be αble to mαke thαt sort of decision

My cousin is actually pressuring me to get one. She made this whole fancy speech about how I would go through life and how I wouldn't get any me time. Even after so many people pressuring me and everything, I find that I can do this. I'm not financially set and I don't really have a job but I just have faith that I can do it. And I see where all of you are coming from, but put yourself in the fetus' position. Imagine if none of you were ever born. Imagine what the lives of the people you care about and have affected for the betters lives would be like.... that's the way I see it anyways.

Ok I'm new to this and I know there is probable a way of how your meant to answer these questions however looking through most answer I see most people are against abortions. Fair enough that for you to decide but have you ever thought of it this way. The baby in the womb not knowing of the outside world of the hurt the pain and the dangers. He may think there is nothing outside his world that he will be created and die in that same world. How do we know that we're not in a "womb" of some sort waiting to be born. People come and go all the time. Do we know we're they go no. Hw do you knoqw that your not going to be aborted tomorrow. Abortion is the choice ogf the mother. The baby doesn't know of the outside world and in all honesty I think never should. It's a horrible place out here I envy them in there all nice and cosy just waiting either for birth or for death it doesn't know and in all honesty it probably doesn't care. I'm not ebign harsh I'm telling the truth the most that's going through that baby's mind is "whats that thing down there strange long tube like thing."

But shouldn't it have a chance at a future? What if martin luther King had been aborted? Or Ghandi? We never think of it that way, but the fetus in a mothers womb could be the person to cure cancer or find a cure for AIDS or something.

Sarai, I know you said that you are neither for nor against it, I was just making a statement, that UNTIL we are in that position we really cannot say what we would do.

But shouldn't it have a chance at a future? What if martin luther King had been aborted? Or Ghandi? We never think of it that way, but the fetus in a mothers womb could be the person to cure cancer or find a cure for AIDS or something.
There are many what-ifs in this world, too many to let that make a difference. What-if the woman who dies from a RH-pregnancy could have cured cancer... there are too many ways to do what-if to even bother with it... we'd end up going in circles...

This is a very hard decision for the women who are actually in this spot where they have to chose, it's a life long decision that will affect the women either way she goes she will have to live with herself and the decision she made, there for with that said I think it's the women's decision. I myself was in this same spot a few months ago, I have two young kids and found out that I was going to have another despite that I was on birth control and tyring to prevent this from happening.
I was going through a lot and the decision came down to was I mentally and physically able to do this again.
It was the hardest decision I ever had to make but after a lot of thinking and praying I did what I thought was best for me and what I knew I could live with.
This needs to be the women's decision unless it comes down to a women living or dying.
I would much rather see a baby be aborted at a few weeks rather then turning on the news and seeing it in the trashcan (dead or alive).
If the baby is known to have a birth defect and a women has the chose to abort the baby because of medical reasons or carry it to term only to take a chance at the baby living or dying then that should be the decision of the parents.
They should decide what they believe to be best if they don't want to take any chances of either having a child with problems or one dying within hours of being born then they should abort but then again not everything is 100%
They could decide to carry the baby to term and end up having a baby that has normal life.

Be that is it may.... it's still something I'm hopeful of.

But shouldn't it have a chance at a future? What if martin luther King had been aborted? Or Ghandi? We never think of it that way, but the fetus in a mothers womb could be the person to cure cancer or find a cure for AIDS or something.


What if HITLER had been aborted, or Lenin? What if Ted Bundy had been aborted, instead of placed for adoption?

You can play the "what if" game all you want. Don't you think that every woman who has made that choice, REGARDLESS what her choice WAS, doesn't play that game with herself, every single day?

I think that men should not have a say if it is illegal or not.
Because it does not affect them in any way.
And I think it should be illegal except for special cases.
Like rape.

i think that men should not have a say if it is illegal or not.
because it does not affect them in any way.
and i think it should be illegal except for special cases.
like rape.

It wouldn't affect a man if a woman went and aborted a baby that was his and that he wanted?

i think that men should not have a say if it is illegal or not.
because it does not affect them in any way.
and i think it should be illegal except for special cases.
like rape.
HOW does it not affect the father? My best friend, his ex gf got an abortion without his concent. Wanna know something, IT DOES affect the men when they want that child and already are in love with that child! Maybe you would think differently if your shirt was soaked in your your best friends tears but NEVER say that it does not affect them and that they should have no say in it!

i think that men should not have a say if it is illegal or not.
because it does not affect them in any way.

So, paying child support for 18 years does not affect men? Hmmmm, I'll have to ask some men about that.

Yes, the decision to have a child or not does affect the men. Just ask any man who is paying child support to a woman whom he is not married to. Whole other issue though.


and i think it should be illegal except for special cases.
like rape.

So you are in favor of back alley abortions like we had in the 60s?

2. Planned Parenthood Funding
Started when: 1970

By whom: President Nixon and a Democratic Congress.

Why: To subsidize domestic birth control and pregnancy testing, but supposedly not abortion.

What it does: Health and Human Services funds nearly 5,000 family planning clinics around the country, some of which are operated by Planned Parenthood. It also funds Planned Parenthood through Medicaid grants and Social Services block grants. The Washington Times reported in 1997 that of the approximately five million women who visit HHS clinics each year, more than 1.2 million are adolescent girls. Because money is fungible, HHS in effect not only subsidizes the distribution of birth control to teenage girls but also abortions. In addition to running HHS family planning clinics, Planned Parenthood is the nation's leading abortion provider. ----------------------
----------------------------------------------

Cost: In 2001, according to the General Accounting Office, Planned Parenthood Federation of America and its affiliates received $162 million in federal funding.


From

Ten Worst Government Programs Human Events - Find Articles (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_200403/ai_n9383651)



Why should anti abortion taxpayors fund this?

Those who don't want the government to tell them that killing the unborn is illegal - aka those that are "pro-choice" should pay for their own abortions.





Grace and Peace

2. Planned Parenthood Funding
Started when: 1970

By whom: President Nixon and a Democratic Congress.

Why: To subsidize domestic birth control and pregnancy testing, but supposedly not abortion.

What it does: Health and Human Services funds nearly 5,000 family planning clinics around the country, some of which are operated by Planned Parenthood. It also funds Planned Parenthood through Medicaid grants and Social Services block grants. The Washington Times reported in 1997 that of the approximately five million women who visit HHS clinics each year, more than 1.2 million are adolescent girls. Because money is fungible, HHS in effect not only subsidizes the distribution of birth control to teenage girls but also abortions. In addition to running HHS family planning clinics, Planned Parenthood is the nation's leading abortion provider. ----------------------
----------------------------------------------

Cost: In 2001, according to the General Accounting Office, Planned Parenthood Federation of America and its affiliates received $162 million in federal funding.


from

Ten Worst Government Programs Human Events - Find Articles (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_200403/ai_n9383651)



Why should anti abortion taxpayors fund this?

Those who don't want the government to tell them that killing the unborn is illegal - aka those that are "pro-choice" should pay for their own abortions.





Grace and Peace

But on the other hand if we didn't have planned parenthood the number of unwanted kids would rise excessively.

Why should anti abortion taxpayors fund this?


Why should criminals pay police, district attorneys, etc with their taxes?

Why should anti-war taxpayers fund wars?

Why should atheist taxpayers fund faith based initiatives?


You don't get a direct say in where your tax money goes (with the exception of that little box on your return that authorizes your money to go into the election fund to be used as federal matching dollars) on ANY issue. Why would your pet issue be any different from anybody else's?

inthebox:

Because we (taxpayers) pay for things we don't like/approve of/support/condone/agree with all the time. What makes this different?

Why are people with no kids funding education?

Why are people who aren't old and may never grow old funding Medicare?

Why are people who have no kids, have jobs, and have contributed to society funding Welfare?

Why do non-drug addicts pay for clinics that help rehabilitate drug users?

Why do we pay for homes for women who have been battered, when it was THEIR choice to have a relationship with an abusive person?

Because it's for the greater good of society.

Seriously... you're barking up the wrong tree with the whole Planned Parenthood thing. Planned Parenthood has also done more to PREVENT abortions (by providing counseling and contraceptives, as well as gynecological exams) than any other agency.

I am absolutely pro choice. It's between a woman and her conscience to make that decision.

Sorry got to spread the love Synn.

Why should criminals pay police, district attorneys, etc with their taxes?

Why should anti-war taxpayers fund wars?

Why should atheist taxpayers fund faith based initiatives?


You don't get a direct say in where your tax money goes (with the exception of that little box on your return that authorizes your money to go into the election fund to be used as federal matching dollars) on ANY issue. Why would your pet issue be any different from anybody else's?



1] Compared to law abiding citizens , what % of "Criminals' actually pay taxes?

2] War? - The military ensures your freedom.



Those who are pro choice/death don't want the government to make it illegal because "its my body" then want that same government to pay for or fund abortions?


The there are others who say that if a child is not going to be '"healthy" then its understandable or justifiable to kill them. Are you implying that children with Down's syndrome or cystic fibrosis or a family history of huntingtons don't deserve a chance to live ?




Grace and Peace

1] Compared to law abiding citizens , what % of "Criminals' actually pay taxes?

2] War? - The military ensures your freedom.



Those who are pro choice/death don't want the government to make it illegal because "its my body" then want that same government to pay for or fund abortions?


The there are others who say that if a child is not going to be '"healthy" then its understandable or justifiable to kill them. Are you implying that children with Down's syndrome or cystic fibrosis or a family history of huntingtons don't deserve a chance to live ?




Grace and Peace

Could you go through 9 months of pregnancy, labor, and delivery (that is, if you are a female) knowing that your child has something wrong with him and may not even live an hour outside the womb? Could you get so attatched to that child only for him to possibly die having little time to spend with him?

Like J_9 said, if you were in the shoes of someone who has gone through this, you would change your tune.

Biologically no, I'm male.

To paraphrase excon, public forum, public opinion.

My wife had 2 children at 18 and was divorced and poor when she found out she was pregnant.
She stuck it out, and he is now 8 and 1/2 yo boy that brings such joy into our lives.



I will back off on this topic - it is a very tough issue.

I mean no disrespect to those who have a different opinion. My apologies.





Grace and Peace

Biologically no, I'm male.

To paraphrase excon, public forum, public opinion.

My wife had 2 children at 18 and was divorced and poor when she found out she was pregnant.
She stuck it out, and he is now 8 and 1/2 yo boy that brings such joy into our lives.



I will back off on this topic - it is a very tough issue.

I mean no disrespect to those who have a different opinion. My apologies.





Grace and Peace

Opinions are always welcome here. That is a lot of what is on this site.

But, not being able to take care of a child financially, and having a child that is unhealthy and could die, are two different things.

You don't get to pick and say that the things *YOU* don't like shouldn't get funded, and then turn around and say that the things *I* don't like should. If you get to choose where your taxes go, then I get to choose where mine go. That's a double standard, and is at the heart of every argument you've put forth here. You get offended that we don't follow your beliefs and outlaw abortion, but simply by putting forth that argument, you're telling me that my beliefs are wrong. And frankly, I find that offensive. You are offending me by saying that I have to follow your beliefs. Every single time you make the argument, you offend me. And yet you'll whine and cry saying that it's unfair that others aren't following yours.

Nosnosna:

I'm not offended. You don't have to follow my beliefs.
I' m just posing some questions.
Sorry if I offended you.



Grace and Peace

I'm not offended. You don't have to follow my beliefs.

But some of us may be offended by your beliefs. Have you ever read up on anencephaly? Do you know what it is? Do you care?

Well if not, here you go...

Infants born with anencephaly are usually blind, deaf, unconscious, and unable to feel pain. Although some individuals with anencephaly may be born with a rudimentary brainstem, which controls autonomic and regulatory function, the lack of a functioning cerebrum permanently rules out the possibility of ever gaining consciousness. Reflex actions such as breathing and responses to sound or touch may occur. The disorder is one of the most common disorders of the fetal central nervous system.

There is no cure or standard treatment for anencephaly and the prognosis for affected individuals is poor. Most anencephalic babies do not survive birth, accounting for 55% of non-aborted cases. If the infant is not stillborn, then he or she will usually die within a few hours or days after birth from cardiorespiratory arrest.

In almost all cases anencephalic infants are not aggressively resuscitated since there is no chance of the infant ever achieving a conscious existence. Instead, the usual clinical practice is to offer hydration, nutrition and comfort measures and to "let nature take its course". Artificial ventilation, surgery (to fix any co-existing congenital defects), and drug therapy (such as antibiotics) are usually regarded as futile efforts. Some clinicians and medical ethicists even view the provision of nutrition and hydration as medically futile, arguing that euthanasia is morally and clinically appropriate in such cases.

So, Inthebox, this ever happened to you?

I ask again. What would you do?

But some of us may be offended by your beliefs. Have you ever read up on anencephaly? Do you know what it is? Do you care?

Well if not, here ya go...

Infants born with anencephaly are usually blind, deaf, unconscious, and unable to feel pain. Although some individuals with anencephaly may be born with a rudimentary brainstem, which controls autonomic and regulatory function, the lack of a functioning cerebrum permanently rules out the possibility of ever gaining consciousness. Reflex actions such as breathing and responses to sound or touch may occur. The disorder is one of the most common disorders of the fetal central nervous system.

There is no cure or standard treatment for anencephaly and the prognosis for affected individuals is poor. Most anencephalic babies do not survive birth, accounting for 55% of non-aborted cases. If the infant is not stillborn, then he or she will usually die within a few hours or days after birth from cardiorespiratory arrest.

In almost all cases anencephalic infants are not aggressively resuscitated since there is no chance of the infant ever achieving a conscious existence. Instead, the usual clinical practice is to offer hydration, nutrition and comfort measures and to "let nature take its course". Artificial ventilation, surgery (to fix any co-existing congenital defects), and drug therapy (such as antibiotics) are usually regarded as futile efforts. Some clinicians and medical ethicists even view the provision of nutrition and hydration as medically futile, arguing that euthanasia is morally and clinically appropriate in such cases.

So, Inthebox, this ever happened to you?

I ask again. What would you do?

Wow. You just gave me chills. That is so scary, and so terrible.

inthebox agrees: using the argument that back alley abortions will cause death ? What is abortion but death?

Death to the mother, due to infection. Did you read my post about my brother-in-law who was supposed to be a back alley abortion? I didn't think so.

You have never been in this position, you have no right to judge what decisions those of us who may have been there.

Back alley abortions killed more than regulated medically induced abortions.

Wow. You just gave me chills. That is so scary, and so terrible.

And so real. It does happen.

And so real. It does happen.

I might have skipped over it in your description, but is there a cause? Something the mother does that could cause this?

The cause of anencephaly is unknown. Neural tube defects do not follow direct patterns of heredity. Studies show that a woman who has had one child with a neural tube defect such as anencephaly, has about a 3% risk to have another child with a neural tube defect. This risk can be reduced to about 1% if the woman takes high dose (4mg/day) of folic acid before and during pregnancy.

It is known that women taking certain medication for epilepsy and women with insulin dependent diabetes have a higher chance of having a child with a neural tube defect. Genetic counseling is usually offered to women at a higher risk of having a child with a neural tube defect to discuss available testing.

Recent studies have shown that the addition of folic acid to the diet of women of child-bearing age may significantly reduce, although not eliminate, the incidence of neural tube defects. Therefore, it is recommended that all women of child-bearing age consume 0.4 mg of folic acid daily, especially those attempting to conceive or who may possibly conceive. It is not advisable to wait until pregnancy has begun, since by the time a woman knows she is pregnant, the critical time for the formation of a neural tube defect has usually already passed. A physician may prescribe even higher dosages of folic acid (4 mg/day) for women who have had a previous pregnancy with a neural tube defect.

I have a 4 year old daughter whose father raped me.. she looks just like him too. And once someone asked me if I think of him when I look at her. And the answer was no. I see her as MY daughter, my angel... and I see her as herself no matter who she looks like. To me rape isn't an excuse for abortion. But I don't judge people who have had abortions.

Yes abortion is murder, and a growing industry with millions of dollars of backing. I do beleive over time we will see futher restrictions in its use.

I will agree with J9, as to your issues of posting


Fr_Chuck. I always thought abortion was murder. But then lately I've been thinking differently. You say that abortion is murder and a growing industry with millions of dollars of backing.

Well then I guess going to War is murder, with millions of dollars backing it? Actually wait, much more than millions!

What I'm trying to get at here is that... is it fair to say that abortion is murder? If it is, then I guess it's fair to say that our soldiers who are fighting the War on Terror are muderers? NOWAY! NO NO! They aren't murderers. So... your choice of "wording" is very politically interesting here.

Our soldiers do not have the intention to cold-bloodingly murder people... this is playing with words! An interesting choice in words! So to say "murder" is very unfair. I don't think these moms who are getting abortions are thinking of cold-blooded murder. You never know... similar to that soldier who is ending another's life to protect Americans (and many times soldiers kill innocent people), a mother could be preventing the life of her child (yes innocent child) because of various reasons JUST like the soldier (like for example... the mom could be a twelve year old rape victim who really can't go through having a child... and it's unfair to ask her to do this... and it's unfair to tell her she is a murderer in this case).

I totally agree with you. Abortion should be illegal and if someone conceived a child, they should at least let someone adopt it instead of killing it. People should at least think whose life their destroying. Their life or the child's? Anyway, if people can't look after a child... THEN HAVE SAFE SEX! OR EVEN BETTER, DON'T HAVE SEX AT ALL!

i totally agree with you. Abortion should be illegal and if someone conceived a child, they should at least let someone adopt it instead of killing it. People should at least think whose life their destroying. Their life or the child's? Anyway, if people can't look after a child...... THEN HAVE SAFE SEX! OR EVEN BETTER, DON'T HAVE SEX AT ALL!

Did you miss those couple of posts about unhealthy children? The ones that are projected to live maybe an hour after being born? What should women do in those situations? Have the baby, get attatched to it for maybe an hour, and watch it die?

Some women who have abortions planned to have a child... some were forced to, read into it more.

Also, What about the millions of children already looking to be adopted. Is it right to let a newborn baby have the right to good parents that they have been waiting their whole lives for? Adoption isn't always the best answer. Adoption is just as horrible to the mother and to the relatives as abortion, and anyone who has ever given up a child will tell you the same.

Either way, it is not something that should be up to a government to decide... each person has their own story and their own reasons. We are moving ever so slowly away from any rights at all...

I am against a baby being aborted simply because the mother didn't want it. That is a lame excuse. You had sex, you suffer the consequences. I would never abort a baby just because it was unplanned or I didn't want it.

But as for the baby having extreme health issues, I feel it is best for the baby, and the emotions of the mother, to abort the baby. Could you imagine holding your newborn child, and then not too much later have the doctor tell you the time he was pronounced dead? If I was that person, I would never ever get over it.

As for the rape issue, I can't pick a side on that. Someone previously posted they had a child that resulted from a rape, and loves that child more than anything. But on the other hand, some women don't want that reminder of that horrible time in their life. Like I said, when it comes to rape, I can't pick a side.

Alka--have to spread the love.

Great post.

I had an unplanned pregnancy. I chose ADOPTION. That decision has cost me more than you would ever believe.

I got pregnant using 3 forms of birth control, with a guy I'd been with for 2 years, conceiving the second time I'd had sex.

I thought of abortion, I nearly got an abortion, but decided that I couldn't live with myself.

In so many ways, that would have been easier than adoption--you really have no idea until you've faced the choice.

There are as many valid reasons for abortions as there are women getting them. Don't judge them until you've stood in their shoes.

I am against a baby being aborted simply because the mother didnt want it. That is a lame excuse. You had sex, you suffer the consequences. I would never abort a baby just because it was unplanned or i didnt want it.

But as for the baby having extreme health issues, I feel it is best for the baby, and the emotions of the mother, to abort the baby. Could you imagine holding your newborn child, and then not too much later have the doctor tell you the time he was pronounced dead? If I was that person, I would never ever get over it.

As for the rape issue, i can't pick a side on that. Someone previously posted they had a child that resulted from a rape, and loves that child more than anything. But on the other hand, some women dont want that reminder of that horrible time in their life. Like I said, when it comes to rape, i can't pick a side.


I understand the how torn you feel here. There are many reasons I think abortion is bad, but because of my beliefs in free choice, and an option for hopeless cases, I still remain Pro-choice. It's a tricky subject. If only the people who are anti abortion would aknowledge the fact that you don't have to have an abortion or even think it is right to say you are pro-choice, there wouldn't be an issue. Like I said previously, I don't think I could ever have one personally, but I understand when people would be forced to choose it, and that is what makes me pro-choice. And whether they choose to admit it or not, those who say that abortion is fine in the cases of rape, or whatever, are pro-choice too. You can't have exceptions, it is legal or it is not.

I had an unplanned pregnancy. I chose ADOPTION. That decision has cost me more than you would ever believe.

I got pregnant using 3 forms of birth control, with a guy I'd been with for 2 years, conceiving the second time I'd had sex.

I thought of abortion, I nearly got an abortion, but decided that I couldn't live with myself.

In so many ways, that would have been easier than adoption--you really have no idea until you've faced the choice.

There are as many valid reasons for abortions as there are women getting them. Don't judge them until you've stood in their shoes.

I meant it is a lame excuse if you have knowingly been having unprotected sex. People that get pregnant that way, and don't want the baby, had to know it was going to happen sooner or later.

I understand the how torn you feel here. There are many reasons I think abortion is bad, but because of my beliefs in free choice, and an option for hopeless cases, I still remain Pro-choice. Its a tricky subject. If only the people who are anti abortion would aknowledge the fact that you dont have to have an abortion or even think it is right to say you are pro-choice, there wouldnt be an issue. Like I said previously, I dont think I could ever have one personally, but I understand when people would be forced to choose it, and that is what makes me pro-choice. And whether they choose to admit it or not, those who say that abortion is fine in the cases of rape, or whatever, are pro-choice too. You can't have exceptions, it is legal or it is not.

In that case, I believe it should remain legal.

If only people were better educated. Our sex-ed system really is bad. I wish they would stop being so PC and tell our kids the cold honest truth...

If only people were better educated. Our sex-ed system really is bad. I wish they would stop being so PC and tell our kids the cold honest truth...

No kidding. That is a huge issue.

I meant it is a lame excuse if you have knowingly been having unprotected sex. People that get pregnant that way, and dont want the baby, had to know it was going to happen sooner or later.

Nothing against you by the way... I was just trying to say you aren't alone in being so unsure about it all.;)

Nothing against you by the way...I was just trying to say you aren't alone in being so unsure about it all.;)

No no I didn't take offense whatsoever. I understood what you were saying :)

If only people were better educated. Our sex-ed system really is bad. I wish they would stop being so PC and tell our kids the cold honest truth...

This bears repeating. Don't even get me started on the "abstinence only" crap. :mad:

Oh that irks me as well. I will make sure my children are well educated.

My kids, if I ever have them, will be fully educated on sex and it's consequences.

And any boy that so much as looks at my daughters will have their knees broken :)

My husband jokes about pulling the shot gun out and shiunning it on the first date... lol...
But I agree. I will make sure they know everything I can tell them..

My kids, if I ever have them, will be fully educated on sex and it's consequences.

And any boy that so much as looks at my daughters will have their knees broken :)

I have boys, aka "the future lookers".. lol

I am happy to have my daughter in a great school system that teaches abstinence, STDs and the like. After her 3 week course this last spring, she is in no rush to have a boyfriend.

I had to sign a release after reading through the curriculum, it was amazing what they taught. I learned some if it in COLLEGE.

I am happy to have my daughter in a great school system that teaches abstinence, STDs and the like. After her 3 week course this last spring, she is in no rush to have a boyfriend.

I had to sign a release after reading through the curriculum, it was amazing what they taught. I learned some if it in COLLEGE.

I wish some of the school systems around here were like that.

Here in the bible belt I was amazed at what they taught. I couldn't believe the half of it. If we chose not to let our children participate we had to teach it at home and they still had to pass the test to go on to the next grade.

The basic run through of sex ed for us was:

Here's the basic premise.
You probably shouldn't actually do this stuff.
If you're going to, at least be safe. We've got condoms here in the guidance office, and the health department has them free. Or you can go out and buy your own.
Condoms are good, but they can break or fail in other ways.
Here's a picture of a really advanced case of chlamydia. He used a condom and still managed to get this.

my husband jokes about pulling the shot gun out and shiunning it on the first date...lol...
But I agree. I will make sure they know everything I can tell them..

Tell him it doesn't work. :) I had two friends in high school (they were sisters) who's dad did this. The younger one was 14 and dating a 24 year old... she lost her virginity to him... she liked him because he was in a "gang"; the TPC (Trailer Park Crew). I wish I was joking.

Not to say your kids would behave the same way, by the way!

See, where I grew up, if the parents didn't want them to do it, they didn't have to do it, period. There were so many kids who's parents didn't want them to go through the class, and a couple of them ended up walking in our graduation ceremony wearing an extra large gown because they were pregnant.

Luckily, my mom was like "you're taking the class, end of discussion".

The basic run through of sex ed for us was:

Here's the basic premise.
You probably shouldn't actually do this stuff.
If you're going to, at least be safe. We've got condoms here in the guidance office, and the health department has them free. Or you can go out and buy your own.
Condoms are good, but they can break or fail in other ways.
Here's a picture of a really advanced case of chlamydia. He used a condom and still managed to get this.

Wow. What a way to "zip" right through sex ed. I was lucky enough to get a thorough class. I started sex ed in 5th grade and had it until I graduated.

It is soooooooo different now, at least in our school district.

It wasn't ACTUALLY that quick... it was twice a week for a semester, in place of whatever the normal activity of the day would have been in gym.

Some of the questions on my daughter's test (she was in 7th grade) rivaled what I had in college Microbiology. I won't be a grandmother for a LONG time.

The basic run through of sex ed for us was:

Here's the basic premise.
You probably shouldn't actually do this stuff.
If you're going to, at least be safe. We've got condoms here in the guidance office, and the health department has them free. Or you can go out and buy your own.
Condoms are good, but they can break or fail in other ways.
Here's a picture of a really advanced case of chlamydia. He used a condom and still managed to get this.

We didn't even get that...
We got "Sex is the devil...the devil burns people who have sex...fear the devil"
"there is no such thing as condoms, they are the devil"
"there is no such thing as birth control pills, they are the devil"
"Sex will kill you and mutate your babies, it is the devil"

Seeing as we were intelligent, it wasn't all that effective...
Luckily I had smart parents too..

The baby is just another VICTIM of the RAPIST.....why should it be "ok" to abort it based on the fact of rape??

Yes it may be a horrible reminder of what happened (for 9 months), but the woman does not have to keep it, she can give it up for adoption.

Which would be easier to lay on your conscious- night after night??

Abortion- is a permanent solution to a temporary problem!

The baby is just another VICTIM of the RAPIST.....why should it be "ok" to abort it based on the fact of rape??

Yes it may be a horrible reminder of what happened (for 9 months), but the woman does not have to keep it, she can give it up for adoption.

Which would be easier to lay on your conscious- night after night??

Abortion- is a permanent solution to a temporary problem!

For some people the decision to put their child up for adoption is as hard as deciding whether to abort it or not.

And the reminder of that horrible time in their life doesn't only last 9 months, it lasts the whole child's life. Every time the mother looks at that child she could be reminded of that, that is if she decided to keep it.

Not to mention what the child might endure. Not every child gets to go to a loving home. Some of them are forced to sit in overpopulated orphanges waiting for a home that never comes. Some of them may never find one, and then they come out bitter and hurt.

As has been said many times in this thread already, You can not say that abortion is bad, if you have never been forced with the decision yourself.

For some people the decision to put their child up for adoption is as hard as deciding whether to abort it or not.

And the reminder of that horrible time in their life doesnt only last 9 months, it lasts the whole childs life. Everytime the mother looks at that child she could be reminded of that, that is if she decided to keep it.

That decision can be togh too, I never said that it wouldn't but THAT wasn't the issue (thats a whole other thread- )....I'm saying, that if they are indeed going to go thru life as you suggest: (That the baby is a "constant horrible reminder") then they NEED to put it up for adoption! And with that outlook, I wouldn't think the choice would be a tough one. The choice is clear!

BUT.....
If thru counseling they can overcome those feelings and actually learn to LOVE the baby, and know that the baby IS a victim just like they were.....then keeping it may be a good decision. ....if they are going to treat it as just a "horrible reminder" thru its entire life, then that is NOT a healthy loving environment to even THINK about raising a baby in.

not to mention what the child might endure. Not every child gets to go to a loving home. Some of them are forced to sit in overpopulated orphanges waiting for a home that never comes. Some of them may never find one, and then they come out bitter and hurt.

As has been said many times in this thread already, You can not say that abortion is bad, if you have never been forced with the decision yourself.


INFANTS do NOT sit and wait, there are more couples w/loving homes WAITING for infants than there are infants waiting for loving homes... unfortunately, some will not take anything but... it's the older children years 5> that are the hardest to find homes for... and almost impossible once they reach the pre teen ages. But we're not debating the issue of timelines in infant adoption...

AND... one does NOT have to actually "live" or "experience" something in their life to KNOW whether it is wrong...

Do you have to first experience starvation, drug/ physical /mental abuse, etc etc... to know these are wrong?? NO. And I don't have to MURDER someone to know that -THAT is also WRONG.

Can you speak for all of the young children, teens, who are still in orphanages waiting to be adopted?

Have you been in the position of abortion or adoption?

Until we actually sit in the driver's seat of the pregnant person, we cannot truthfully say what we would or would not do.

That decision can be togh too, I never said that it wouldn't but THAT wasn't the issue (thats a whole other thread- )....I'm saying, that if they are indeed going to go thru life as you suggest: (That the baby is a "constant horrible reminder") then they NEED to put it up for adoption! And with that outlook, I wouldn't think the choice would be a tough one. The choice is clear!

BUT.....
If thru counseling they can overcome those feelings and actually learn to LOVE the baby, and know that the baby IS a victim just like they were.....then keeping it may be a good decision. ....if they are going to treat it as just a "horrible reminder" thru its entire life, then that is NOT a healthy loving environment to even THINK about raising a baby in.



Just because of where the baby came from doesn't mean the mother wouldn't love it, it would just be a reminder. I could never not love my kids under any circumstance. I agree with the fact that we can't say what we would do until we were in that position. I can say I wouldn't abort/adopt all I want, but I may change my tune if I ever get into that particular position. You just never know until you get there.

INFANTS do NOT sit and wait, there are more couples w/loving homes WAITING for infants than there are infants waiting for loving homes.....unfortunately, some will not take anything but....it's the older children years 5> that are the hardest to find homes for....and almost impossible once they reach the pre teen ages. But we're not debating the issue of timelines in infant adoption....




AND...one does NOT have to actually "live" or "experience" something in their life to KNOW whether or not it is wrong.....

Yes, but one would need to experience being in this position to understand how they would "really" feel on the issue. Adoption is not the "easy answer" that so many people make it out to be. Adoption is just as brutal as adoption sometimes.


Do you have to first experience starvation, drug/ physical /mental abuse, etc etc...to know these are wrong??? NO. And I don't have to MURDER someone to know that -THAT is also WRONG.

Again, the debate isn't whether it is WRONG... if you had read previous responses, you would understand my stance... the debate is whether it should be LEGAL. When it comes to health issues like this, it should never be the decision of the government. What about a mother who becomes pregnant (planned) with her 4th child. She soon finds out that the child has a dangerous condition that will ultimately kill the mother in childbirth, and the child will not thrive once born. Should the mother neglect her other children and choose the life of a child that will not live, robbing her already living children of the mother they so need, or should she abort the baby? There are situations out there besides the ones the media and anti-abortionists want you to hear. Not everyone seeking an abortion is using it as a form of birth control..

Question closed
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