Do you think that the government should either build a fence across the us-mexico border or do something else to stop the flow of illegal immigrants?

Something that I thought of (and I do have witnesses) before Bill O'Reily said it:

National Guard troops. What better way to train them in a border-defense type situation should they be in a war?

XenoSapien

What about a North American Union like the European Union?

Bush approved of a new large highway for trade from Mexico to Canada... looking ahead, the corporate Republicans are and dragging along the religious Republicans with promises and propaganda.

Hello space:

Sure. He should just make 'em legal. What?? All they want to do is wash your dishes. Don't you like clean dishes??

excon

If only the U.S. would change and improve its immigration policies, no fence or sharpshooters would be necessary.

The US should complete the fence that has been approved for and budgeted for by Congress and signed into law by President Bush . That would be a starter. I do not care one bit that it would not be 100% effective. It would slow down the rate of the flow of illegals into the country .

I would also get tougher on employers that hire them . The Del Monte plant was raided and some illegals were arrested. They wanted to replace them so they put out the word they were hiring . There was a long line of applicants. So much for "doing the work Americans wont do" .

Only after these are in place should the country address the need to expand visas. There is a definite need to stream-line the process. But the nation should only tolerate legal immigrants .We should know when they are here and when they leave at all times.

The situation has gotten out of hand and something needs to be done soon. For whatever reason the federal govt is dragging it's feet (which I suspect has to do with the large number of "anchor babies" who will have voting rights in the future), which is making local govts take action. My county and a neighboring county is currently working on ways to deny county services to illegal immigrants. It sends a clear message - if you are illegal you are going to have a tough time living here, so go live somewhere else. The federal govt needs to do SOMETHING; fences, moats, sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads...

How about the fact that they are taking your money but not giving back? They can do whatever they want and what happens? They just get deported... that's it. No jail.. no prison, just get sent back home. If they want to come to the US... do so legally

Wondergirl agrees: They pick our crops too, don't forget. What white person wants to slave (bent over for hours) out in a hot, dirty field and get all itchy?

I have picked, and packed crops before. You can't say no white person would do that. I am from the agricultural capital pretty much of the United States. Yes, the hispanics do a good job around there, but there are plenty of white people that do it too.

I believe the borders should be closed. They are draining this country and have no business here if they don't belong here. I don't mind the ones that come here to work, the ones that actually TRY to gain citizenship, but the ones that are perfectly happy remaining illegal and feeding off taxpayers, are the ones that pi$$ me off.

Not to mention they are trashing this country. You people from California, which is where I am originally from, know what I'm talking about. My hometown used to be so beautiful when I was younger, now its completely trashed, dirty and dingy. I absolutely love it here in Florida, and although I am moving back to California soon, I really don't want to. Something needs to be done because its getting ridiculous. I say we give California to Mexico (since that is what it pretty much is already), close the border, and try to rebuild.

Hello again,

What jillian says is true. However, there are also communities who are doing the opposite and welcoming the immigrants. That's a clear message too - if you're illegal we won't let you be exploited because of it in our community. We like clean dishes.

The federal government failed again. Local laws like these can't prevail on either side. The feds DO need to do something. Criminalizing leaf blowers, however, ain't it.

excon

What about just taking mexico over, who is going to fight it, their army ? They would all give up just to become US citizens.

We talk over all of Mexicos natural resourses, create oil jobs, beach resorts. As for as religious, mexico is actually a higher percentage Christian, so they should not have a religious issue

how about the fact that they are taking your money but not giving back? they can do whatever they want and what happens? they just get deported... thats it. no jail.. no prison, just get sent back home. if they want to come to the US...do so legallyHello Snave:

You are really misinformed. Too much O'Reilly, huh?

I don't understand what you mean when you say they are taking my money and not giving it back. Just the opposite is true. They work. They get paychecks. They get taxes withheld. They can't file a tax return, so the government gets to keep THEIR MONEY. They're the ones getting ripped off!

I also don't understand what you mean when you say they can do whatever they want... No they can't. If they get caught, they DO go to jail. I've been there with 'em. After they're released they DO get deported.

I can't for the life of me understand how you can be so misinformed... Maybe if you just don't like darker skinned people, these things are easier to believe.

excon

Hello Snave:

You are really misinformed. Too much O'Reilly, huh? I don't understand what you mean when you say they are taking my money and not giving it back. Just the opposite is true. They work. They get paychecks. They get taxes withheld. They can't file a tax return, so the government gets to keep THEIR MONEY. They're the ones getting ripped off!!

excon

The illegals that work for under the table money don't pay taxes! They have no SSN, how can they pay taxes?

The illegals that work for under the table money dont pay taxes! They have no SSN, how can they pay taxes?Hello nautical:

True, but MOST of 'em work for a paycheck with a fake SSN.

excon

Hello nautical:

True, but MOST of 'em work for a paycheck with a fake SSN.

excon

How in the world do they get a hold of a fake SSN? Do they just make up a random number? Or does someone issue it to them?

Or does someone issue it to them?Hello again, naut:

I wouldn't use the word issue. It's more like a forgery. Employers are only required to see two documents in order to hire someone. An SS card is one, and a picture ID is another. Those are forgery's too.

excon

They steal a ssn and use it as their own or someone else steals it and sells it to them.

Most illegal immigrants are trying to better themselves but they still have committed a crime. If I speed to get to work early so I can look better to my boss, I still committed a crime, it's the same thing. I know a few people are calling for total deportation but I think most people just want to have better legal immigration, so we know who we are letting into our country. For most people it doesn't have anything to do with not liking brown people it has to do with what is legal and what is illegal.

For most people it doesn't have anything to do with not liking brown people it has to do with what is legal and what is illegal.

I agree. Its not that I don't like them because of their race. I am not racist. I don't like the ones that feel they are above the law and can come and go (we don't see too much going) as they please.

Hello again,

It's time to present excons truth about illegal's. The fact is, they're just like you.

Let's be clear. I'm not talking about the few who are criminals. I'm not talking about the few who work for cash. I'm not talking about the few who go on welfare and use up our other services.

I'm talking about the overwhelming majority of them who just want a job to better their lives – just like you.

Here's how they're EVEN MORE like you are. Use your imagination here. Let's for a minute say that you live in Colorado. Let's say that Colorado has no jobs, or the ones there pay $.25 an hour. Let's say that there's a boom going on in the oil business in Wyoming. But, Wyoming only wants Wyomingans to have those jobs, so they make it illegal for anybody to cross their borders.

So, there you are, sitting in Colorado, looking across that imaginary line called a border at a help wanted sign. Your children are hungry. Tell me that you're not going to walk over there and go to work.

I know, there are some high handed amongst you who'll say nooooo, I wouldn't cross the border. That would be illegal. I'd go sign up and wait for years.

I have only one thing to say to those people. Bull!

excon

I understand they are trying to better their lives. I've been to Mexico quite a few times, and Lord knows I would not want to live that way either. Like I've said before, I really don't mind the ones that do it the right way. But the ones that come here illegally, and remain illegal, knowing FULL WELL they are illegal, those are the ones that bother me.

excon agrees: I'm sure they're bothered too, by they're hungry children. You didn't answer my question. Even though it would bother you, would you cross the border to get a job?

I honestly don't know. On one hand, of course I would want to feed my children and try to make their lives better, BUT, on the other hand, I'm not too big on breaking the law. Breaking the law usually equals going to jail, and I'm not real big on being locked in somewhere I can't leave.

I guess it would just have to come down to me being in that situation. And you really can't say that anyone would say "no I wouldnt cross" because there are still PLENTY of people in Mexico who stay there and haven't crossed.

I also forgot to add, for the slim few that actually do go to jail for getting caught jumping the border, how are they doing their children any good from jail? At least of they had stayed in Mexico, the children would have their parents with them.

Hello again, naut:

Nobody is in jail for just crossing the border. When they catch 'em, they just ship 'em back.

The solution, of course, isn't just to keep the borders open. We DO need to keep out the people we want to keep out. But, at the same time, we need to open up the border to the workers we need. That's a comprehensive fix that your federal government WON'T do. Shame on them.

In my view, congress is to blame. Congress let this situation happen by doing nothing over the last 50 years. We didn't mind illegal's then. Everybody had one working for them.

Then 9/11 happened, and we saw that our southern border was porous. It needs to be fixed. That's just so.

The part about this whole thing that I don't understand, is how these illegal workers, who have been here for generations, are all of a sudden, criminals.

excon

However, there are also communities who are doing the opposite and welcoming the immigrants. That's a clear message too - if you're illegal we won't let you be exploited because of it in our community. We like clean dishes.

You're right. Another county which neighbors mine is refusing to do anything about their immigrant problem. To them, it's not a problem. Virginia Beach (which is a few hours from here) is often referred to as a haven for illegals.


Criminalizing leaf blowers, however, ain't it.

I agree with you there. The immigrants who are here and obeying our laws (well, aside from that whole immigration thing... ) and are integrating into our society shouldn't be criminalized. I have a friend who was brought here by his mom when he was 5. They had fake papers and they lived here, worked, went to school, never broke the law. I don't think people like THAT need to be deported. BUT, the ones who commit crimes are a different story. I remember reading a story about a guy who managed to stay in this country after being arrested because he argued returning him to Mexico would be "cruel and unusual punishment". Right.

It's sad the socioeconomic situation in Mexico and other countries south of the US is so bad people are willing to risk their lives to come here for better opportunities. Coming across the border isn't easy; a lot of people die, become injured, and women are frequently raped by the very people helping them cross. It's sad. But the open border also allows drugs and undesirable people to come here too, and that's bad for us. I'll admit, I don't know the process, cost and time table for legally coming to the US, but let's just say it's expensive and lengthy. If our govt would devise a plan to make LEGAL immigration more steamlined and at the same time PROTECT our borders, I think we would be making a step in the right direction.

I have seen a couple of programs on Fox News showing them getting arrested for trying to jump the border illegally. But I can't really say much for television, not all of it is true.

I don't think the ones that come here for work are criminals. I think the ones that come here, feed off us, sit around, and do nothing are criminals. If they want to come here to work and better themselves and their families, that is fine. They are working for what they are getting and that is great.

Where I was born and raised now is full of Hispanics. There are some there that are there to work, but there are a TON there that don't do anything. We are starting to become overrun by the ones that are here just to be here, nothing else. I mean there has to be a limit to who can come here, and what their purpose is in being here.

Hello again:

Jillian: We agree. Naut: We agree.

They do, of course, arrest them. They even take them to a detention facility for a few days, and then they ship them back. Nobody, however, is doing time for crossing the border.

Let's all sing cumbaya.

excon

Embrace them all, make sure they get an education, a job, pay taxes, and do not go on welfare. One could wonder who is left in Mexico? The wealthy?

Embrace them all, make sure they get an education, a job, pay taxes, and do not go on welfare. One could wonder who is left in Mexico? The wealthy?


No. There are plenty of the poor still in Mexico that choose to stay there.

I don't know about other states, but in California we have given them the benefit of the doubt and tried to educate them. Hell, everything there (billboards, newspapers, classes in school, etc.) are in Spanish. We did this to help them. They don't care.

My high school even taught in Spanish to help them get an education. Barely any of them showed up to class. They don't want an education.

Hello again:

Jillian: We agree.

HOLY CRAP! :eek:

:D

What about a North American Union like the European Union??

Bush approved of a new large highway for trade from Mexico to Canada...looking ahead, the corporate Republicans are and dragging along the religious Republicans with promises and propaganda.
North American Union? Political bulsh.ts. The European Union hasn't worked since the new economical undeveloped countries was accepted.

Here are the actions that should be taken to stop the flow if illegal immigrants across the border.

1) Complete the fence.

2) Have the National Guard train in that area. Since it is almost all desert anyway, it becomes an excellent training ground for the military engagements we can expect in the Middle East for the next couple of decades or so. And while they are there training, they can also do border patrols... good training for controlling the border of a hostile environment while at war.

3) Enforce the current laws regarding illegal immigrants and the hiring thereof. People who hire illegal immigrants should face sanctions and even jail time, as per current law. People who cross the border illegally should be deported.

4) Eliminate the "anchor-baby" rules. The fact that an illegal immigrant had a baby here should not keep them from being deported.

5) Increase spending and manpower to enforce the laws instead of encouraging Immigration and Naturalization to ignore the laws.

It is that simple. By taking these steps, we can virtually eliminate the flow of illegals into the country. We can eliminate the incentive for them to come here, the incentive for people to hire them, and the ease with which they get here. Not only that, but we can severely lower the number of illegals who are already here.

Excon has mentioned that all these illegals want is to clean our dishes and mow our lawns. Aside from the fact that this is not true --- many of them traffic drugs and become violent criminals (aside from the fact that they are illegal immigrants, I mean) --- I ask "SO WHAT?"

Should the fact that "all they want is to clean our dishes" be a reason to let them in and give them legal status? I don't think so. Keep in mind that the majority do not pay taxes, and are a net COST to this country, not a producer. We have enough poverty in this country without importing it from elsewhere.

Furthermore, they are taking jobs from Americans; construction jobs, agricultural jobs, pool-cleaning jobs, lawn-mowing jobs, and dish-washing jobs. If they want these jos, then can get them in their countries of origin. If they can't find those jobs in their country of origin, IT ISN'T OUR PROBLEM. Let them overthrow their government and install one that creates a decent economy with a decent living wage. Let them bring their country's economy and wage level up instead of bringing ours down. The argument that all they want to do is wash our dishes doesn't wash with me.

And the fact that "Americans want cheap labor" doesn't hold any water either. The fact that they want cheap labor doesn't mean that they should get it. The free market should control the wages, not the import of illegal labor. If all the dishwashers in this country demand $10/hour to wash dishes, then restaurants should pay $10/hour to dishwashers, not $5/hour to illegal immigrants. If the restaurants can't survive paying $10/hour, then let them go out of business. If the only way that a business can survive is through illegal ativity, then let it not survive.

By importing illegal labor, we are not only killing jobs for unemployed Americans, we are keeping wages of Americans down artificially, and condemning illegal aliens to slave laor at the same time. In response, the government raises the minimum wage, which does nothing to help the illegal immigrants who are working for slave wages, and always lags behind the market so that it doesn't really help Americans.

By cutting off the illegal immigrant labor pool, the wages are restored to market norms which helps poor Americans, and decreases poverty levels in the USA.

There is absolutely no convincing reason to permit illegal immigration.

Elliot

We're complaining about oil consumption in the US. Deport ALL illegals to their respective countries, thereby reducing the load. Anybody who wants to immigrate starts with military service (screened, of course) or public service of some sort. They will be deployed to help the allied efforts around the US and around the world. We bring our troops home to guard the borders.

If only the U.S. would change and improve its immigration policies, no fence or sharpshooters would be necessary.


Wondergirl agrees: They pick our crops too, don't forget. What white person wants to slave (bent over for hours) out in a hot, dirty field and get all itchy?


You really believe that these people like to get hot dirty and itchy because they are generally darker than Anglos? I suppose the Afros were even happier still getting hot dirty and itchy while working in the hot sun in the cotton fields since they are even darker? Right? Maybe you interpret blacks singing while they worked as a sign of happiness? After all, what white person could possibly think of singing under those horrendous conditions? No?

BTW

You, Madam are a racist par excellence!

Find me a white teenager who willingly goes out into the fields to pick crops. If you find one, he is probably the farmer's child and he/she probably isn't real happy about it. Teens don't even want to work at fast-food restaurants any more -- not high enough pay for one thing.

I'm saying more power to those not white who are willing to get hot, dirty, and itchy to harvest white people's crops for nothing pay. Why aren't whites out there in the field too?

Find me a white teenager who willingly goes out into the fields to pick crops. If you find one, he is probably the farmer's child and he/she probably isn't real happy about it. Teens don't even want to work at fast-food restaurants any more -- not high enough pay for one thing.

I'm saying more power to those not white who are willing to get hot, dirty, and itchy to harvest white people's crops for nothing pay. Why aren't whites out there in the field too?

They are! Have you seen the central valley of California? Yes, there are migrant workers working there, obviously. But there are white people doing it too. There are plenty of them that aren't farmers kids that do it because they want a job and the extra money.

The white teens nowadays aren't as bad as you claim them to be, at least not where I'm from.

**EDIT** I would also like to add that its not always nothing pay. There are some migrant workers that make more than some people that work behind a desk. And, I did the job, because I wanted to. I am not a farmer's child.

Wondergirl agrees: Wow! The Midwest is entirely different.

Where I am from, farming is like our culture. Everyone gets in on it. I will agree though, that the majority of the workers are migrant workers, but there are tons of white people that do it too.

But just because where you are from it is mostly, or all, migrant workers that do your farming, that does not make you racist. I don't see where that came from anyway.

Where I am from, farming is like our culture. Everyone gets in on it. I will agree though, that the majority of the workers are migrant workers, but there are tons of white people that do it too.

But just because where you are from it is mostly, or all, migrant workers that do your farming, that does not make you racist. I dont see where that came from anyways.

That's because you are creating your own argument, tagging it as mine and then saying that it doesn't make sense. In any case, denial is expected since most people in the USA do their thing almost as if it were second nature and if the anyone points it out they say it wasn't really meant that way. Actually, the whole casually-inflict-and vehement-denial scenario is an almost instinctive American cultural thing. Whether Europeans or other Anglos elsewhere are in the same habit I don't know. But here in the good ole USA it's a pervasive accepted practice.

That's because you are creating your own argument, tagging it as mine and then saying that it doesn't make sense.

If there are white people where she lives that won't do the job, and the migrant workers will, the fact that she's saying so does not make her racist. You went off on this whole "African Amercans picking cotton" thing, when it has no relevance. They were FORCED to pick cotton (besides the fact that that was a long time ago, and hasn't been applied for a while), the Mexicans CHOOSE to work in the fields. Nobody forces them to do anything.

She said she wasn't racist, so she's not.

My comment, "They pick our crops too, don't forget. What white person wants to slave (bent over for hours) out in a hot, dirty field and get all itchy?" was not derogatory toward people of color but toward white people who won't dirty their hands and do what used to be called common labor. Btw, I'm the descendant of Idaho and Illinois farmers, and a thousand years ago spent my teen summers picking fruit in the orchards of western NY State.

I saw today on the news that Mexico plans to sue the US in international court to stop the fences. That's ironic. They don't care to keep their own citizens home.

For all we have to say about national sanctity and sovereignty, they apparently lack that same pride, to make the same efforts at home. What are they running from? Is Mexico such a bad place that they just can't stand it? Why can't they remain and turn things around there?

I saw today on the news that Mexico plans to sue the US in international court to stop the fences. That's ironic. They don't care to keep their own citizens home.

For all we have to say about national sanctity and sovereignty, they apparently lack that same pride, to make the same efforts at home. What are they running from? Is Mexico such a bad place that they just can't stand it? Why can't they remain and turn things around there?

They are running from poverty. I have been to Mexico, and yes it is a bad place. I don't even live there, and I couldn't stand it. Its nasty and disgusting, but the funny thing is, THEY made it that way. While I was there, I saw a grown adult pull down his pants and take a crap in the gutter, that is just plain gross. I think that they feel it is too far gone, and turning things around would take too much effort, so they just migrate over here. Besides the fact that while they're here, they have it easy. They can work (plenty of people will hire illegal immigrants), not have to pay taxes, and live somewhere clean (at least more clean than Mexico). Not to mention all they have to do is have a baby, and they qualify for welfare.

I am not racist, by any means, but I feel that it is a bunch of crap that the working people's tax dollars are supporting them. And I also do not want the United States to start looking like Mexico (some parts already do). I feel that if they don't like it in Mexico, they should have thought about that before they trashed it.

They've brought their bad habits with them? That's great news!

Who wants them for neighbors? Maybe we should start a sign-up sheet for the open border advocates..?

If there are white people where she lives that wont do the job, and the migrant workers will, the fact that she's saying so does not make her racist. You went off on this whole "African Amercans picking cotton" thing, when it has no relevance. They were FORCED to pick cotton (besides the fact that that was a long time ago, and hasnt been applied for a while), the Mexicans CHOOSE to work in the fields. Nobody forces them to do anything.

She said she wasnt racist, so she's not.


.The Afro American work under the sun is relevant only if skin color is brought into the equation as the lady just did by saying that no WHITE person would EVER do that type of work no matter what. Nobody WANTS to be under the sun itching and sweating for meager wages. Forced? These people ARE forced because their life circumstance forces them to do it. Or maybe you have your own definition for what forced means. I have done jobs for meager wages in order to survive which otherwise I would never have done. Have you? If not, then that's the reason you feel that these people are sweating and itching under the sun voluntarily.

BTW

You wish to accept the glib explanation that the comment is A Okay and is racially neutral. That is your opinion. Mine is a different one

They've brought their bad habits with them? That's great news!!

Who wants them for neighbors? Maybe we should start a sign-up sheet for the open border advocates...?!

Have you considered that they might not want YOU for a neighbor?

BTW
When you cut down on the horendous American rape and murder, child abuse, and assault and battery statistics then maybe you won't look so ridiculous talking about other people's "bad" habits.

BABRAM agrees: It's the dollar to peso rate and the bi-weekly trip to the Western Union.
So they're using the exchange rate to pump dollars across the border?

.

.The Afro American work under the sun is relevant only if skin color is brought into the equation as the lady just did by saying that no WHITE person would EVER do that type of work no matter what. Nobody WANTS to be under the sun itching and sweating for meager wages. Forced? These people ARE forced because their life circumstance forces them to do it. Or maybe you have your own definition for what forced means. I have done jobs for meager wages in order to survive which otherwise I would never have done. Have you? If not, then that's the reason you feel that these people are sweating and itching under the sun voluntarily.

BTW

You wish to accept the glib explanation that the comment is A Okay and is racially neutral. That is your opinion. Mine is a different one

Their life circumstance does not FORCE them to do anything. There are jobs available in Mexico, trust me. And yes, I have done crap jobs to get by, I didn't have to go to another country and do it though. Its called McDonalds.. and yes, there are McDonalds in Mexico.

So they're using the exchange rate to pump dollars across the border?

.


Last time I checked, which was a few weeks back, one US dollar got you twelve Mexican pesos. I would rather keep the dollar a dollar and wouldn't mind turning the table on Mexico to use their resources.


Bobby

Their life circumstance does not FORCE them to do anything. There are jobs available in Mexico, trust me. And yes, I have done crap jobs to get by, I didnt have to go to another country and do it though. Its called McDonalds..and yes, there are McDonalds in Mexico.


There is a huge difference between being stuck for life in one dead-end job and taking a job temporarily, Also, what other country could you have gone to? There is no other. Additionally, why do you assume that McDonnell's pays the same rate as it pays here over there. The reason companies move to other countries is to exploit more than they do here. Otherwise they wouldn't go. There are also factories just inside the border exploiting Mexican workers to the hilt. It all boils down to GREED. The ability to pay a decent salary is there but the GREED is so strong that it prevents it.

BTW

My father, a USA citizen, worked a full eight hour day all his life and was paid BARELY enough to eat and pay a low income housing rent. It wasn't that they couldn't pay more, it was simply that they didn't want to pay more. That's the basis of our Capitalistic system--exploitation of the worker and who better to exploit than those who have no protection under the USA law in terms of wages than these non-citizen immigrants.

There is a huge difference between being stuck for life in one dead-end job and taking a job temporarily, Also, what other country could you have gon to? There is no other. Additionally, why do you assume that McDonalds pays the same rate as it pays here over there. The reason companies move to other countries is to exploit more than they do here. Otherwise they wouldn't go. There arec also factories just inside the border exploiting Mexican workers to the hilt. It all boils down to GREED. The ability to pay a decent salary is there but the GREED is so strong that it prevents it.

Okay, obviously, just like on the other thread, everyone is going to bash heads. I respect your opinion, and hope you would respect mine. But like I said on the other thread, I feel to strongly about this to argue to no end. So, I won't be answering anymore, because all I'm doing is getting mad.

Have a good day, and no hard feelings (I hope) :)

Have you considered that they might not want YOU for a neighbor?

I didn't invite them. If more want to move to my neighborhood, so be it! We are a very diverse group: on my left is a wonderful Haitian family, very hard working and very polite; across is an imigrated German couple, heavy accent but they haven't offended me! Further up the street is an old man who takes care of his autistic grandson... Across from him is a Swiss widower who makes wooden lawn ornaments and cabinets just for fun. Kind of Norman Rockwell-meets-melting pot. Oh! And my physical therapist is half Mexican and half Chinese. I have NO problem.

BTW

When you cut down on the horendous American rape and murder, child abuse, and assault and battery statistics then maybe you won't look so ridiculous talking about other people's "bad" habits.
I have no personal knowledge of their "bad" habits. I was responding to a prior post.

But, hey, maybe you should send these stats to them, explaining we already have enough to deal with? I'm not accusing all them of every crime on the street, but at the same time, are you condonning them flooding in? Does shear mass of numbers make it appropriate?

Did you know that Mexico has a law that bans foreign nationals from owning property with in 50 km of their beaches and 100 km fron their borders?

Things that make you go, "HUH?!"

I didn't invite them. If more want to move to my neighborhood, so be it! We are a very diverse group: on my left is a wonderful Haitian family, very hard working and very polite; across is an imigrated German couple, heavy accent but they haven't offended me! Further up the street is an old man who takes care of his autistic grandson... Across from him is a Swiss widower who makes wooden lawn ornaments and cabinets just for fun. Kinda Norman Rockwell-meets-melting pot. Oh! And my physical therapist is half Mexican and half Chinese. I have NO problem.

BTW

I have no personal knowledge of their "bad" habits. I was responding to a prior post.

But, hey, maybe you should send these stats to them, explaining we already have enough to deal with? I'm not accusing all them of every crime on the street, but at the same time, are you condonning them flooding in? Does shear mass of numbers make it appropriate?

I don't condone breaking international law or local law or any other kind of JUST law.
What I do condemn is misrepresentation of motives and a non American attitude toward those who are less privilaged than we are. Things can be resolved decently. If not, it only serves to create eventual social alienation among those who do become citizens but who bear the deep psychological scars inflicted by those who believed it their right and duty to persecute in order to express their displeasure.

Hi Rich-

A close Hispanic friend at my work place was telling me that only a Mexican citizen can own the property. That friend of mine is a legal US resident and from what I understood the reason Mexico came up with the law was because so many US citizens retired and then moved to Mexico. Strange enough you can always build a home in Mexico, but you better do it on a Mexican citizen's friends property that you feel secure about.



Bobby

Did you know that Mexico has a law that bans foreign nationals from owning property with in 50 km of their beaches and 100 km fron their borders?

Things that make you go, "HUH?!"

Dang! I do agree with you on that!

Apparently the process is so bogged down (again shear mass of numbers) nothing can be done. I guess we should either fix the problem and expand the program or relent?

And I'm sure some honest, law abiding citizens have been the brunt of scourge for anything other of their nationality have done, and that isn't fair.

Maybe the us should help to make mexico a better place with funding and aid and organisations and stuff, hence eliminating the need for them to leave mexico.

Why we support half their citizens here in the usa by welfare and food stamps

maybe the us should help to make mexico a better place with funding and aid and organisations and stuff, hence eliminating the need for them to leave mexico.
Here's something to read:

Foreign Aid - US Embassy Mexico City (http://mexico.usembassy.gov/mexico/aid.html)

Note that the header says, "Foreign Aid from USAID (in millions of dollars)"

I say quit giving them aid, deport the illegals and close the border

Otto186 I am not saying that you are considering that Mexicans are on welfare and food stamps because they are simply, Mexican. But, I'm going to make a clarification, because your statement could create this "aura".

Supporting "half their citizens here in the usa by welfare and food stamps" as you have claimed Otto, is (and again I am not accusing you of what I'm going 2 write next) not because of the fact that they are "Mexicans" but is is only because of their situation.
Mexicans are human beings before they're Mexican. Those human beings have a situation. America should first take care of America (it has this right), but while doing this, America should try to make choices that are pro the rest of humanity.

America should secure the borders, but what are all the options? What are all the approaches and ways this can be done in? There are many many many ways to do this. What are they? There is not only one "Right" way to do it. There isn't only one "Left" way to get things done. I think?

Otto186 I am not saying that you are considering that Mexicans are on welfare and food stamps because they are simply, Mexican. But, i'm going to make a clarification, because your statement could create this "aura".

Supporting "half their citizens here in the usa by welfare and food stamps" as you have claimed Otto, is (and again I am not accusing you of what I'm going 2 write next) not because of the fact that they are "Mexicans" but is is only because of their situation.
Mexicans are human beings before they're Mexican. Those human beings have a situation. America should first take care of America (it has this right), but while doing this, America should try to make choices that are pro the rest of humanity.

America should secure the borders, but what are all the options? What are all the approaches and ways this can be done in? There are many many many ways to do this. What are they? There is not only one "Right" way to do it. There isn't only one "Left" way to get things done. I think?

Well they can take there situation back to mexico. There are thousands of americans homeless and dying on the streets but the us government seems more interested in helping some people from another country. I say we take care of our own then try to be humanitarians.

Next of all I have been were mexicans are in large numbers. I have seen for myself they willl forge 6 different identies and draw checks that mine and you taxes pay for. I am not against the entire mexican race just the one that are here illegaly

well they can take there situation back to mexico. there are thousands of americans homeless and dying on the streets but the us goverment seems more interested in helping some people from another country. I say we take care of our own then try to be humanitarians.

next of all I have been were mexicans are in large numbers. I have seen for my self they willl forge 6 diffrent identies and draw checks that mine and you taxes pay for. I am not against the entire mexican race just the one that are here illegaly


One thing you'll find is that most people on this board accept that your entitled to a freedom of speech and opinion. I happen to agree with you on the reduction of welfare across the board in the U.S. (everybody). In fact that was one thing your wife and I discussed and agreed fully upon yesterday. Now was your admittance to Excon of being a racist just a tongue-in-cheek comment in a moment of anger? BTW we already deport illegals and are working on fencing the border. The aid to Mexico will always be and if for no other reason than humanitarian, it's diplomatic.



Bobby:)

Yes Otto, America should try and take care of America first. Is that true about what you just wrote: that the government seems more interested in helping some people from another country? That's pretty bad if it is true, and it makes me trust the American government less. What is the point of that (if what you are claiming is true Otto).
You would think that the government was working for us, since we are paying the government.

I also know that their situation is partially caused by America, and I never thought to look at this fact, but was reminded of this when I read someone else's post. It's true, we did take some of their land, and you know what is done to a group in the process of conquering another's land. These people didn't wake up and decide to be poor or to do illegal things. There's something that produces that sort of behavior in a human.
We're on the same page though, about securing the border.

There are many programs available to those homeless on U.S streets, but they won't take advantage of them. Like one homeless guy told me, "I am not a case and I don't want to be managed." To get into a program, they have to give up independence in some way. Too many are alcoholics whose families have given up on them and they don't want someone telling them how to live. The illegal immigrants, on the other hand, are eager to get into those programs and get free medical care. Many are families with children.

Many of the illegals do not forge checks and take advantage of us. They just want jobs and a decent life and money to send back home.

One thing you'll find is that most people on this board accept that your entitled to a freedom of speech and opinion. I happen to agree with you on reduction of welfare acrosss the board in the U.S. (everybody), in fact that was one thing your wife and I discussed and agreed fully upon yesterday. Now was your admittance to Excon of being a racist just a tongue-in-cheek comment in a moment of anger? BTW we already deport illegals and are working on fencing the border. The aid to Mexico will always be and if for no other reason than humanitarian, it's diplomatic.



Bobby:)


When I said I was racist I was not speaking out of anger.

Yes they want to close the border but all I hear is talk. Actions speak louder then words. As for as I am concerned I don't think the government is going to do crap!!

When I said I was racist I was not speaking out of anger.

yes they want to close the border but all I hear is talk. Actions speak louder then words. As for as I am concerned I dont think the goverment is going to do crap!!!


OK. That's fair and honest. Between the two, an illegal and racist, I'd rather spend my energy deporting the greater of the two evils, that being the racist.



Bobby;)

Well if you want to let the illegals come over here that's fine. If you want to support their illegal lazy A$$ then good for you. I don't feel like I should, when I work 14 hr days just to support my family and myself

OK. That's fair and honest. Between the two, an illegal and racist, I'd rather spend my energy deporting the greater of the two evils, that being the racist.



Bobby;)

I am what you call a equal opportunity racist.

I hate everybody equally

Have you thought of a different solution which may be cheaper and more quick, build a ditch so that vehicles cannot cross and people who try too are trapped in the ditch, it would make a good deterrent

A gun would make a good deterrent too but I would call it target practice

Well if you want to let the illegals come over here thats fine. If you want to support their illegal lazy A$$ then good for you. I dont feel like I should, when I work 14 hr days just to support my family and myself


The fact is I don't. I went through the legal process as a sponsor. Like "Big10" in essence we agree with you, outside of your racist comment.



Bobby

Yes by all means expand the North American empire, after all it's more efficient not to have borders, of course, it is helpful if everyone speaks the same language, oops, a bit of a bug there, but easily solved in a few generations

Yes by all means expand the North American empire, afterall it's more efficient not to have borders, of course, it is helpfull if everyone speaks the same language, oops, a bit of a bug there, but easily solved in a few generations



Brain, be careful not to encourage him. He's a self-admitted racist and ready to shoot.



Bobby

I am also part of the armed forces so I am always ready to invade

I do believe in the right to keep and bear arms! I also pray nightly for my brother that's currently serving in Iraq for the fourth time.


Bobby

They are just crossing back into what was once Mexico. Consider it payback for land stolen.

1846: The U.S. provokes war with Mexico and acquires half of its territory, including Texas and California. U.S. Interventions (http://www.aldridgeshs.qld.edu.au/sose/modrespg/imperial/usa/U_S_%20Interventions.htm)

I do have one question, and I'm being completely serious. Is there anywhere in the US I can move to where I don't have to deal with illegal aliens? Montana possibly?

I do have one question, and i'm being completely serious. Is there anywhere in the US I can move to where I dont have to deal with illegal aliens? Montana possibly?

Avoid places that have original Spanish names such as El Paso = The Way, Nevada=Snow Fall, Arizona=Arid Zone Colorado=Red Boca Raton=Mouses Mouth Florida=Land of Flowers, Tejas=Texas New Mexico Rio Grande=Big River since they were once Mexico proper and some Mexicans maybe think that it still is in a peculiar sort of nostalgic way.

But seriously, your best bet is either Alaska or Hawaii. But then again there is a Puerto Rican presence there, small, but for the sensitive like you it might prove distracting.
As for the Alaskan Inuit, why, they are almost invisible and can't really be considered immigrants since they were there first. Buit then again there is a certain disconcerting resemblance.

Montana= Mountain might be fine for you since immigrants seem not to go in that direction. The article below clarifies why these American as apple pie places have these strange sounding totally un-American FOREIGN-sounding names.

Excerpt

Spanish Place Names
Hispanic heritage from coast to coast

by Holly Hartman

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Alcatraz Island, now part of the Golden Gate National Recreation Area, draws over a million visitors each year

The Spanish were among the first Europeans to explore what is now the United States, and the first to found a permanent settlement here (St. Augustine, Florida, in 1565). From Alaska's Madre de Dios Island to Mexico, Maine, the United States is dotted with Spanish place names. Here are a few.

Alamo: "poplar." This tall softwood tree gave its name to a number of U.S. places, including the memorable chapel-fort in Texas and the town of Los Alamos in New Mexico, where atomic bombs were produced.

Alcatraz Island (California): from "álcatraces," pelican. A sizable pelican population once lived on this rocky island in the San Francisco Bay.

Boca Raton (Florida): from "boca de ratónes," a Spanish term applied to nearby inlets. It translates as "mouth of the mouse" (not "rat," which is "rata") and may refer to the jagged rocks at these inlets. It has also been suggested that "ratónes" was a term used for the pirates who might hide in such a place.

California: The state was named for a mythical land described in a popular Spanish novel from around 1500, Las sergas de Esplandián (The exploits of Esplandián) by Garcia Ordóñez de Montalvo.

Cape Canaveral (Florida): from "cañaveral," canebrake. The promontory NASA made famous takes its name from the thickets of cane that grow in sandy areas.

Colorado: "reddish." The state is named for the reddish color of mud found in the Colorado River.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 1846, during the Mexican War, Commodore John Sloat captured the Mexican village of Yerba Buena and renamed it San Francisco.
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El Paso (Texas): "passage." The border city of El Paso lies at a small gap between the Rockies and the Juarez Mountains of Mexico. This narrow passage has made the city a hub for both north-south and east-west travel.

Florida: "Flowery." Some say that Spanish explorer Ponce de Leon named the land for the Spanish term for Easter, Pascua de Florida (Flowery Feast), because he first saw the land during the Easter season. Others believe he named it for the area's lush flowers.

Fresno (California): "ash tree." The central Californian city and county are named for their abundant ash trees.

La Brea (California): "tar." The tar pits in this famous part of Los Angeles have yielded amazing fossils for more than 100 years.

Las Cruces (New Mexico): "crosses." The city is named for the burial ground of some 40 travelers who were killed by Apaches in 1830. RELATED LINKS
Where Spanish is Spoken

Origin of State Names


Las Vegas (Nevada): "meadows." Before casinos and neon lights defined Las Vegas, the area was noteworthy as a desert oasis with artesian springs.

Los Angeles (California): "angels." In 1781 Spanish settlers founded El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de Los Angeles de Porciúncula (The Town of Our Lady the Queen of the Angels of Porciúncula). It became known as La Ciudad de los Angeles (City of Angels), and then just as Los Angeles.

Los Gatos (California): "cats." At the time this western California city was founded, many wildcats roamed the area.

Montana: from "montaña," mountain. Representative James M. Ashley of Ohio suggested using the Spanish word in honor of the territory's mountainous western part.

Nevada: "snow-covered." The mountains in this western state are often capped with snow.

San Antonio (Texas): "Saint Anthony" (of Padua). On the feast day of St. Anthony in 1691, Spanish explorers found and named the eponymous river. Later the name was given to the city, which was founded in 1718.


Adobe buildings in Santa Fe, New Mexico
San Francisco (California): "Saint Francis" (of Assisi). The city by the bay was once a Mexican village named Yerba Buena (Good Grass). In 1846, during the Mexican War, Commodore John Sloat captured and renamed the settlement for its San Francisco de Asís mission (better known as Mission Dolores), which was founded in 1776.

Sangre de Cristo Mountains (Colorado and New Mexico): "blood of Christ." This mountain range was named for the red glow cast on it by the setting sun.

Santa Fe (New Mexico): "holy faith." Spanish settlers founded this oldest U.S. capital nearly 400 years ago, as La Villa Real de la Santa Fe de San Francisco de Asís (The Royal City of the Holy Faith of Saint Francis).

Spanish Place Names (http://av.rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9ibyKtsbbFGOVUB_k9rCqMX;_ylu=X3oDMTBvdmM3bGl xBHBndANhdl93ZWJfcmVzdWx0BHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=125ksj2ha/EXP=1186119404/**http%3a//www.factmonster.com/spot/spanishnames.html)


BTW

So steer clear of such places and you're good to go.

Avoid places that have original Spanish names such as El Paso = The Way, Nevada=Snow Fall, Arizona=Arid Zone Colorado=Red Boca Raton=Mouses Mouth Florida=Land of Flowers, Tejas=Texas New Mexico Rio Grande=Big River since they were once Mexico proper and some Mexicans maybe think that it still is in a peculiar sort of nostalgic way.

But seriously, your best bet is either Alaska or Hawai. But then again there is a Puerto Rican poresence there, small, but for the sensitive like you it might prove distracting.
As for the Alaskan Inuit, why, thwey are almost invisible and can't really be considered immigrants since they were there first. Montana= Mountain might be fine for you since immigrants seem not to go in that direction. Prostitution is legalized there which you might also consider a plus. The article below clarifies why these places have these strange FOREIGN names.



Fresno (California): "ash tree." The central Californian city and county are named for their abundant ash trees.



BTW

Steer clear of such places and you're good to go.

Wow, thanks for all of that info, seriously. I knew what some of those names meant, but not all.

Why would I find prostitution a plus? Are you implying that I'm a prostitute, or like to sleep with them? That would be an insulting implication and I do not appreciate it.

Fresno happens to be where I am from :)

Wow, thanks for all of that info, seriously. I knew what some of those names meant, but not all.

Why would I find prostitution a plus? Are you implying that i'm a prostitute, or like to sleep with them? That would be an insulting implication and I do not appreciate it.

Fresno happens to be where I am from :)

My aplogies I thought you were male since I didn't take a look at the photograph.
I will erase that part of my response.

My aplogies I thought you were male since I didn't take a look at the photograph.
I will erase that part of my response.

Its okay, no worries :)

I have a bad habit of not thinking before I speak/type, as you have seen in previous posts of mine. Someone was calling me racist and I'm really not, but I guess I did make myself sound like I am. I apologize for that.

If the US really wants to stop illegal immigration they should stop hiring them and crack down on the employers instead of just giving them a slap in the wrist. But no the US would rather punish the illegal that just wants to work instead of the employer getting rich off him.