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Freethinka
Jul 23, 2007, 03:57 AM
It is known that he was (heretic) who was burned to the stake along with his translations of the bible.:o

Curlyben
Jul 23, 2007, 03:59 AM
John Wycliffe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wycliffe)

shygrneyzs
Jul 23, 2007, 05:38 AM
I would not call John Wycliffe a heretic, he disagreed with the Catholic Church but that did not mean he was off base in his thinking.

The first hand-written English language Bible manuscripts were produced in 1380's AD by John Wycliffe, an Oxford professor, scholar, and theologian. Wycliffe, (also spelled “Wycliff” & “Wyclif”), was well-known throughout Europe for his opposition to the teaching of the organized Church, which he believed to be contrary to the Bible. With the help of his followers, called the Lollards, and his assistant Purvey, and many other faithful scribes, Wycliffe produced dozens of English language manuscript copies of the scriptures. They were translated out of the Latin Vulgate, which was the only source text available to Wycliffe. The Pope was so infuriated by his teachings and his translation of the Bible into English, that 44 years after Wycliffe had died, he ordered the bones to be dug-up, crushed, and scattered in the river.

One of his teachings was that he felt the Church should be more in line with the Apostles, as far as possesions and material wealth. You can understand how that caused a great furor among the wealthy. There is much more. The man had a brilliant mind and a faith to challenge and believe he was right. Which was more than the Catholic Church would tolerate at that time.

http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/john-wycliffe.html

RickJ
Jul 23, 2007, 06:03 AM
It is known that he was (heretic) who was burned to the stake along with his translations of the bible.:o

Did you mean to say "Is it known?" If not, do you have a question?

Freethinka
Jul 23, 2007, 11:26 AM
I would not call John Wycliffe a heretic, he disagreed with the Catholic Church but that did not mean he was off base in his thinking.

The first hand-written English language Bible manuscripts were produced in 1380's AD by John Wycliffe, an Oxford professor, scholar, and theologian. Wycliffe, (also spelled “Wycliff” & “Wyclif”), was well-known throughout Europe for his opposition to the teaching of the organized Church, which he believed to be contrary to the Bible. With the help of his followers, called the Lollards, and his assistant Purvey, and many other faithful scribes, Wycliffe produced dozens of English language manuscript copies of the scriptures. They were translated out of the Latin Vulgate, which was the only source text available to Wycliffe. The Pope was so infuriated by his teachings and his translation of the Bible into English, that 44 years after Wycliffe had died, he ordered the bones to be dug-up, crushed, and scattered in the river.

One of his teachings was that he felt the Church should be more in line with the Apostles, as far as possesions and material wealth. You can understand how that caused a great furor among the wealthy. There is much more. The man had a brilliant mind and a faith to challenge and believe he was right. Which was more than the Catholic Church would tolerate at that time.

http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/john-wycliffe.html

John Wycliffe was heretic that is why 12 years later the pope ordered his corpse exumed and burned to the stake along with heritic Jan Hus, with all of John Wycliffe writings. :o

shygrneyzs
Jul 23, 2007, 12:56 PM
Not everyone thought John Wycliffe was a heretic. Also, to correct your misinformation - he did not die by being burned at the stake. He died of a second stroke, which he had in 1384 but died in 1387. It was only in 1415 that he was declared a heretic and his books burned. It was not until 1427 or 1428 that his body was exhumed and his remains were then burned at the stake, along with his books. If you are going to cite history, make it correct.

Note about John Hus - he did die at the stake in 1415 but not with the remains of John Wycliffe.

Freethinka
Jul 23, 2007, 01:49 PM
I would not call John Wycliffe a heretic, he disagreed with the Catholic Church but that did not mean he was off base in his thinking.

The first hand-written English language Bible manuscripts were produced in 1380's AD by John Wycliffe, an Oxford professor, scholar, and theologian. Wycliffe, (also spelled “Wycliff” & “Wyclif”), was well-known throughout Europe for his opposition to the teaching of the organized Church, which he believed to be contrary to the Bible. With the help of his followers, called the Lollards, and his assistant Purvey, and many other faithful scribes, Wycliffe produced dozens of English language manuscript copies of the scriptures. They were translated out of the Latin Vulgate, which was the only source text available to Wycliffe. The Pope was so infuriated by his teachings and his translation of the Bible into English, that 44 years after Wycliffe had died, he ordered the bones to be dug-up, crushed, and scattered in the river.

One of his teachings was that he felt the Church should be more in line with the Apostles, as far as possesions and material wealth. You can understand how that caused a great furor among the wealthy. There is much more. The man had a brilliant mind and a faith to challenge and believe he was right. Which was more than the Catholic Church would tolerate at that time.

http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/john-wycliffe.html

Shygrneyzs John Wycleff was a heretic that is why the pope ordered his corpse exumed 12 years later to be burned crushed and cast into the river.:o

shygrneyzs
Jul 23, 2007, 01:59 PM
The Methodist and some Baptist churches would disagree with you. You are basing what you are saying on one Church's point of view here. Wycliffe, although he had been a priest, came to disagree with some fundamental beliefs that the Catholic Church held dear to them. He called them on their own hypocrisy, their own wealth while the common people lived in dire poverty, he even called the Pope a heretic because of what he saw in the Church straying from the Apostles way of living. Wycliffe believed the Holy Bible should be in a language people could understand and that pretty much took care of his career in the Church. The Church did not want the common man to understand Scritptures. John Wycliffe was condemned by one Church, not all. Many call John Wycliffe the Father of the Reformation.

So if you are using the Catholic Church as the only source of the "heretic" claim, you need to explore this a bit more. A side note about his translations - some did survive, not many, less than twenty.

speechlesstx
Jul 23, 2007, 02:13 PM
Who was John Wycliffe? It's a matter of perspective. To the Catholic church he may have been a heretic, but to others he was a hero, the first to translate the bible into English, a man who put scripture, preaching the grace of our Lord above the offices of the church - the "Morning star of the Reformation." He most likely died of a 2nd stroke (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15722a.htm), not burned at the stake. Why do you ask - or rather as the body of your post does - tell?

Fr_Chuck
Jul 23, 2007, 02:35 PM
Also many people who at the time may have been considered a heretic, or a tratior or other, are latter forgiven in the light of new ideas and teachings, or new church leaders.

This happened during a very bad period for the catholic church and it has long ago noted many errors in the actions of its leaders during these time.

There are many people excomunicated who were latter even after their death forgiven. He is no more a heretic than Martain Luther who was given a death sentence by the church, ( who at the time was intermixed in political government also) Had it not been for the protection given by German Princes he would have been killed.

But one has to look at people in church history not always as what he was but what he turned out to be.

And of course we could look at the view of Joseph Smith the leader of the Latter Day Saints, is it a heretic or a true beleiver, it is all a matter of what religious view point you take.

Freethinka
Jul 23, 2007, 02:55 PM
Fr Chuck I would like to know if any writings of the Bible other than what is the original Roman Catholic version is protestant?

shygrneyzs
Jul 23, 2007, 03:01 PM
Freethinka, why do you believe that john Wycliffe was a heretic? Just because a Pope and Council declared him so? Do you adhere to the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church? Do you believe the Pope is the absolute authority that you heed?

Fr_Chuck
Jul 23, 2007, 03:16 PM
Fr Chuck I would like to know if any writings of the Bible other than what is the original Roman Catholic version is protestant?

Actually the original bible was not Roman Catholic, it was merely Christian,
The early church included both the churches of the East and West.
That is what is called Catholic ( Roman) and the Eastern Orthodox.
It was not till latter on that they divided.

But there were basically no other christian groups, all christians were part of the "church"

But the bible used by Protestants have a few minor differences but nothing that makes any doctrine difference. There are some books that include the time between the new and old testement but there is little doctrine included in them.

shygrneyzs
Jul 23, 2007, 03:18 PM
There is the 1560 Geneva Bible - It was produced by John Calvin, John Knox, Myles Coverdale, John Foxe, & other English refugees in ever-neutral Geneva, Switzerland… fleeing the persecution of Roman Catholic Queen “Bloody” Mary in England. The 1560 Geneva Bible is also called, "The Bible of the Protestant Reformation." The King James version was not even considered a Protestant Bible, since King James was aligned with the Anglican Church. William Tyndale printed his Bible in 1523. Tyndale was later declared a heretic and burned at the stake.

Tyndale's English translation of the entire Bible was the basis for the many other English translations that followed. The subsequent English versions are Coverdale's Bible, 1535; Thomas Mathew's Bible, 1537; the Great Bible, 1539; the Geneva Bible, 1560 (mentioned above), and the Bishop's Bible, 1568. Also the Rheims-Duae's in 1582 was translated from the Latin Vulgate. Within approximately 50 years from the time of Tyndale's first printed translations the above six translations were made. It must be noted, however, that none of these English translations was accepted as an authorized English version, because of general dissatisfaction with them and the many mistakes found in them. Therefore, after 30 years another attempt to translate the Bible anew into English was made by a conference in England, where a new version of the Bible was suggested to King James. King James was convinced of the need of a new English translation of the Bible. He appointed 54 scholars to undertake the task. These scholars used the Bishop's Bible of 1568 as a basis, but earlier English versions were also, taken into consideration, especially Tyndale's.

Wangdoodle
Jul 23, 2007, 07:39 PM
I would not defend the actions taken against John Wycliffe, but just to point out these actions taken weren't just because he translated the Bible in to a common language. He also was apposed to the sacraments, namely the doctrine of transubstantiation.
In those days, It was one thing to challenge the clergy on Their corrupt actions. It was a far different thing to challenge church doctrine. Saint Benedict also saw much corruption in Rome during his time, yet he did not challenge the doctrine, rather the corruption. He was later named a saint.