How much longer before he come back,
Anyone know, let me know please...

There has been many things happening nowadays which are very similar to what the book of revelation states will happen prior to Jesus's coming. You might want to read some info about it.

You can read this... and see what you think about it.:
EXPECT JESUS TO COME AGAIN: An all creatures Bible message, messages, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, compassion, prayer, creation, God, Jesus, Christ, Lord, Holy Spirit, war, pro-life, capital punishment, churches, Christian, Methodi (http://www.all-creatures.org/sermons97/s27nov94.html)

Free,

I can't prove anything to you concerning the Word of God! It takes faith. You asked when Jesus would return.. even Jesus said that no man would know the day or hour. But when you read the scriptures He gives us signs that His coming is near. In fact, everything is set for the rapture of the church. Man wants proof... God wants faith.

The Bible puts it like this:

Hebrews 11:6 Without faith it is impossible to please God, for he who come to God must believe that He is and HE is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him.

So I can't prove anything to you. I can point to things in the Bible that lets us know that His coming is near. He could come back anytime!

There has been many things happening nowadays which are very similar to what the book of revelation states will happen prior to Jesus's coming. You might want to read some info about it.


We live in a universe, in which many books were written, many of the stories in these different books came to past... But if we keep it real, and recognize that, the particular book that you are suggesting for me to read, probably 9 times out of 10 what is written will come to past. My reason is, if I remember correctly there are christians who read this book and are doing things in life to make it come to past. Revelation= destruction

Free,

i can't prove anything to you concerning the Word of God!! It takes faith. You asked when Jesus would return..even Jesus said that no man would know the day or hour. But when you read the scriptures He gives us signs that His coming is near. In fact, everything is set for the rapture of the church. Man wants proof...God wants faith.

the Bible puts it like this:

Hebrews 11:6 Without faith it is impossible to please God, for he who come to God must believe that He is and HE is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him.

so I can't prove anything to you. I can point to things in the Bible that lets us know that His coming is near. He could come back anytime!


Tessy I don't want to have faith and believe. Freethinka want to know. It is that much better knowing than believeng.

The arrival of Jesus was prophesied about centuries before it happened and all the prophetic details concerning his ministry and its purpose were fulfilled. Since all these prophecies concerning his first coming were minutely fulfilled, there is absolutely no basis to doubt that the prophecies concerning his second coming. In short, the fulfillment of the first guarantees the fulfillment of the second.

Can You Believe Bible Prophecy? > The Good News : July/August 2003 (http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn47/bibleprophecy.htm)

Excerpt

A scientist picked out 48 such prophecies and determined that the probability of one man randomly fulfilling them all is 1 in 10 to the exponent of 157. That is one followed by 157 zeros! Your chances of winning a typical lottery jackpot is about 1 in 108. (100,000,000) Yet, Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies!


I am God, and there is none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand.. . '" (Isaiah 46:9-10).

Starman; Freethinka isn't looking for exegesis!! I simply, want someone to come forth with truth. In a court of law. If you don't have no proof. You don't have a case...
Or, in religion, the law is the exact opposite, is this where faith and belief come in.

Freethinka is tickled pink for your answers!

It suprises me that you have so much questions concerning God, yet when you get your answer you are still not satisfied, no one can point to something and says that is God, but by faith we believe in God, for without faith it is impossible to serve God. No one knows the exact the moment of the arrival of God but this is thb last age that we are living in called LAODICEA .

It suprises me that you have so much questions concerning God, yet when you get your answer you are still not satisfied, no one can point to some thing and says that is God, but by faith we believe in God, for without faith it is impossible to serve God. No one knows the exact the moment of the arrival of God but this is thb last age that we are living in called LAODICEA .

Maril: With faith, you believe there is a god... Not to have faith and belief, and you know there is a god. Do you agree Maryl

Islam and muslims also believe the return of Jesus (alaihi salaam)!!
It is not only the Christians who believe this... just for your info!

He is not alive in this world but when he returns he will prove all the wrong that has been said about him all this time since he was take up to God.This is what muslims believe and it is faith that makes the difference and if you do not believe that's no problem with me cause that is your choice to make.. :)

Islam and muslims also believe the return of Jesus (alaihi salaam)!!!
It is not only the Christians who believe this...just for your info!

He is not alive in this world but when he returns he will prove all the wrong that has been said about him all this time since he was take up to God.This is what muslims believe and it is faith that makes the difference and if you do not believe thats no problem with me cause that is your choice to make..:)


Firm believer do you think, if you know god, it would take the stress out being in such a precarious position, pray and believe, as if you are danging out of a window, of a sky scraper, on a thread

Does jesus live? Show me proof.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How much longer before he come back,
anyone know, let me know please...

You ask four questions and one demand here: Does Jesus live? [If He does, then] Show me proof. How much loger before he come back? Anyone know? Let me know please[?]

Does Jesus live? Whether He does or not is a matter of faith. I believe that He does exist. But, does He live as humans do? No. One could say that He lives based upon a broad definition of the term "lives." I cannot prove it, except by the precepts of what I believe to be true in my heart because of the faith I have according to what I believe.


We live in a universe, in which many books were written, many of the stories in these different books came to past... But if we keep it real, and recognize that, the particular book that you are suggesting for me to read, probably 9 times out of 10 what is written will come to past. My reason is, if I remember correctly there are christians who read this book and are doing things in life to make it come to past. Revelation= destruction

And so, it is foretold by the Book of Revelation as you agree in your statement above. You also would seem to agree with it by what you write. An example is below.


probably 9 times out of 10 what is written will come to past.


Tessy I don't want to have faith and believe. Freethinka want to know. It is that much better knowing than believeng.

If you want to know that something will come to pass and you think that "it is much better knowing than believeng" then one must presume that you also believe that it will come to pass because you believe it to be a fact that it will be so, without merely believing it to be so, but by knowing it to be a fact.


Marily: With faith, you believe there is a god... Not to have faith and belief, and you know there is a god. Do you agree Marily

Not to have faith and believe, but know that there is a God, would also presume that you believe there to be a God because you know it.

I rarely get involved in the heated religious frays on this site because the people involved seem to go around in circles about "proving" their points, when it simply boils down to a matter of faith. It can't be proved. God doesn't ask us to understand everything, but just to have faith. You just have to have faith concerning things of the Bible, if you choose to do that. This is also true in many other religions. It is not an act of scientific reasoning concerning facts that moves a person to have faith in what will happen concerning the Christian beliefs, but faith in what the Holy Spirit does in working through every one of us. No one here can convert another person. That would be an act of God through the Holy Spirit based upon an act of faith of the person presenting the witness of the Gospel to the other person.


Starman; Freethinka isn't looking for exegesis!! I simply, want someone to come forth with truth. In a court of law. If you don't have no proof. You don't have a case... Or, in religion, the law is the exact opposite, is this where faith and belief come in.

Yes, this is where faith and belief come in.

Truly, you present a dichotomy within yourself, because you indicate and imply that you know there is a God because you want to know when Jesus will return. You did not ask "I don't believe in God or Jesus. So, why would Christians believe that Jesus will return someday?" You presume that He will because you have not stated a disbelief in what Christians believe. Only that "How much longer before he come back, anyone know, let me know please..."


Freethinka is tickled pink for your answers!

Answers have been given to you. And, they have been good ones.

Now, what exactly is your question? And, what is the point you are trying to make if you are asking questions and then asking more questions in return?

Freethinka, what you are doing here and in the majority of your other posts amounts to trolling in my book. I'm going to get an admin to have a long look at your posts and decide if you have a future on this site. If you want to stay then I suggest you stop challenging people's beliefs so vehemently and with so little respect, you do not have all the answers.

Freethinka, what you are doing here and in the majority of your other posts amounts to trolling in my book. I'm going to get an admin to have a long look at your posts and decide if you have a future on this site. If you want to stay then I suggest you stop challenging people's beliefs so vehemently and with so little respect, you do not have all the answers.

Sorrry Capuchin, Freethinka want to know? What book you are talking about? And which site Freethinka has been trolling? Honestly Capuchin could you tell me what book you are talking about?

All the questions I asked are relevant questions that I cannot seem to get answers for no matter where Freethinka turn, I was on line and this wonderful site popped up to my delight and now Freethinka is being accused of trolling. First I think freedom of thought shoud be understood. To have freedom of thought the views are endless.
It deeply saddens me to (know) when one is on a search for real truth, to be accused of plagiarism, Freethinka is left speechless, but still bursting with thought, one must understand if you are real ,and true, real and true thoughts will come to you... I hope you see where my disapproval lie...

In other words we live in a universe, and so our thoughts are universal.

I would also like the administrator to get involved, so that your (belief) of me trolling your site. Will be finally proven fruitless.

Like I said in my opening remarks sorry, Freethinka would also like to have an apology, for your threats of disbarment of this wonderful site.

Enjoy this wonderful day Cupchin. I honestly mean it.

In my book is an idiom for "in my opinion"

You do not listen to the answers that people give you. You just keep asking more questions. That is what makes me think you are a troll.

in my book is an idiom for "in my opinion"

you do not listen to the answers that people give you. You just keep asking more questions. That is what makes me think you are a troll.

If christians have a right to believe in what isn't proven, and a right to continue to spread its doctrine, unproven 24-7... Who are you; to say I got My answers, and when I should be satisfied. You are you, and I am me, so how do you (know) my fulfillment, also I get a sense that that there is a big secret... That is guarded by asking questions is an offense.

Asking questions is not an offence. Asking questions with the sole purpose to get people riled up is an offence. That is what I think you are doing.

I don't think that's what he's doing. He wants answers, no one can give him any straightforward, they just use the fact that they're believers and they have faith to answer his questions. In my opinion, he's trying to open up eyes, to see reality. There's a difference between the truth and just having faith.
I use to be the same way, I could still be the same way, but I choose to hold my tongue and keep most of my questions to myself.
Religion is a very serious topic. You either believe or you don't, there should be no happy medium.

I don't think that's what he's doing. He wants answers, no one can give him any straightforward, they just use the fact that they're believers and they have faith to answer his questions. In my opinion, he's trying to open up eyes, to see reality. There's a difference between the truth and just having faith.
I use to be the same way, I could still be the same way, but I choose to hold my tongue and keep most of my questions to myself.
Religion is a very serious topic. You either believe or you don't, there should be no happy medium.

Self_inflicted_hell , you are on the right track. The questions should be continued to be asked to unveil the beast...


This is getting scarey.

Everyone has questions! I don't care how religious or how non religious you are. Just some are raised to believe so strongly or others are so warped to even think of asking questions that might interfere with their beliefs.

Hello everybody,

Well I just want to ask a question. Do you have proof that air is in the air? We are breathing but can we see the air? It is there, and we just know it is there. EDIT::::: THIS IS JUST TO EXPLAIN THAT THERE ARE MANY THINGS THAT ARE UNSEEN BUT DOES NOT MEAN THEY DO NOT EXIST.

There are so many things even scientists do not have proof of. Many scientists and many schools teach scientific theories. Which another word or definition of theory is a belief. It is not fact.

All I can say is look at all around you, all around us. Life in itself, can it be explained? For me God is in everything, all around everything and is the start of all the processes and continue to be in the presence of all life. It is a belief. The fact is I am here, and you are. We all are entitled to share our beliefs and thoughts. For me it is fact. If I were not here or anybody else then there would be no fact. We could not have created ourselves.

Joe

Joe, a scientific theory is fact, it fits all available evidence. We have plenty of proof that air is made of molecules and that "air" is in it.

Your argument has a load of holes.

Actually no it does not have any holes, it is not even an argument. Big bang is a scientific theory, it is not fact.

Evolution is a scientific theory, it is not fact. There are so many theories and all of them are just that theories, not fact.

The air thing was my idea, but as far as scientific theories, it is just that a theory, not FACT.

define:scientific theory - Google Search (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=BPu&defl=en&q=define:scientific+theory&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title)

Thank you for proving my point "A theory is a former hypothesis that has been tested with repeated experiments and observations and found always to work."

It is fact.

How much longer before he come back,
anyone know, let me know please...


Hi Free -

As Tessy said so well, we are unable to "prove" anything. But yes, Faith, is your answer.
Although, you can actually see God and Jesus in others. In the beauty of the things He created. In the miracle of life.

Just as I can not see the love my Mother has for me. I can't see it, I can't touch it, but I believe and have faith that she does. It's the same for the love of God.

I see God's work on a daily basis. I see it on the face of someone so severely handicap, and yet, when they look up at you, the smile... I know that may sound odd and perhaps it is, but I actually do see the love of God during that time.

I think I am doing more rambling the answering your question :o Sorry.

To believe is to see.

God gave us brains so that we could discover, why then do you disagree with what we have discovered using our god-given abilities?

There have been great discoveries, scientific and others. God has given us all abilities. There are some things that just remain theories, and are not fact. For me the fact is nothing would be possible without God.

god gave us brains so that we could discover, why then do you disagree with what we have discovered using our god-given abilities?


Isn't nothing is wrong with the absolute truth.


Hi Free -

As Tessy said so well, we are unable to "prove" anything. But yes, Faith, is your answer.
Although, you can actually see God and Jesus in others. In the beauty of the things He created. In the miracle of life.

Just as I can not see the love my Mother has for me. I can't see it, I can't touch it, but I beleive and have faith that she does. It's the same for the love of God.

I see God's work on a daily basis. I see it on the face of someone so severly handicap, and yet, when they look up at you, the smile...I know that may sound odd and perhaps it is, but I actually do see the love of God during that time.

I think I am doing more rambling the answering your question: to Sorry.

To believe is to see.


No... To believe is to not be sure of what you are looking at or dealing with..

Well Freethinka,

This is how I see it. YOU say you have to SEE to believe... and GOD says you don't. When Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead there were many people there... they saw it with their own eyes!! And yet, the Bible records that some left.. unbelieving!! So there you go. Jesus raised a man from the dead!! He proved over and over who He was and yet... some still said NO! You don't need proof dude.. what you need is faith. I can't give that to you... what you need to do is ask God for it.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Well Freethinka,

This is how i see it. YOU say you have to SEE to believe... and GOD says ya don't. When Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead there were many people there...they saw it with their own eyes!!! And yet, the Bible records that some left..unbelieving!!! So there you go. Jesus raised a man from the dead!!! He proved over and over who He was and yet...some still said NO! You don't need proof dude..what you need is faith. I can't give that to you...what you need to do is ask God for it.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.


Tessy777: what a trick proposition, you seem to have mastered your skills in persuasion, Freethinka reject the bait. It all mean, what you are saying is that, I would be a child of zorasta. Freethinka devoid of faith, and I would continue to be devoid of belief!

Joe, as far as I see it, creationism is an approximation of the truth, it fits all of the evidence of speciation that was found 2000 years ago. Evolution is a new theory which is a closer approximation to the truth, we have new evidence that creationism fails to describe, evolution is a theory that explains all of the evidence that we have at the present time. Both are theories, but one fits more of the facts than another. This makes creationism an obsolete theory, it has been superceded by a more powerful theory. Much like how Newtonian gravity was superceded by the more powerful general relativity.

It's certain in the scientific community that creationism isn't the truth, there's too much that it cannot explain in the same way that it's certain that Newtonian gravity is not the truth. General relativity and Evolution describe all of the available evidence, they are better approximations of the truth. As we discover more evidence, we will need better approximations. This is how science works. Theories are not "just theories" they are the truth as far as we can possibly know it. Please be careful not to misrepresent science through ignorance, as I'm certain that that is not your intention.

Joe, as far as I see it, creationism is an approximation of the truth, it fits all of the evidence of speciation that was found 2000 years ago. Evolution is a new theory which is a closer approximation to the truth, we have new evidence that creationism fails to describe, evolution is a theory that explains all of the evidence that we have at the present time. Both are theories, but one fits more of the facts than another. This makes creationism an obsolete theory, it has been superceded by a more powerful theory. Much like how Newtonian gravity was superceded by the more powerful general relativity.

It's certain in the scientific community that creationism isn't the truth, there's too much that it cannot explain in the same way that it's certain that Newtonian gravity is not the truth. General relativity and Evolution describe all of the avaliable evidence, they are better approximations of the truth. As we discover more evidence, we will need better approximations. This is how science works. Theories are not "just theories" they are the truth as far as we can possibly know it. Please be careful not to misrepresent science through ignorance, as I'm certain that that is not your intention.


Capuchin I couldn't say it any better Freethinka agree.

Starman; Freethinka isn't looking for exegesis!!! I simply, want someone to come forth with truth. In a court of law. If you don't have no proof. You don't have a case...
Or, in religion, the law is the exact opposite, is this where faith and belief come in.

Freethinka is tickled pink for your answers!


Proof
The proof provided has to be relevant to the accusation? Your accusation seems to be that we have no logical basis to believe in Jesus' return. I provided the logical reason why we are justified in believing in Jesus' return. If indeed you see no logic in such a logical response then you need to take a course in logic 101 in order benefit from any logical answer given. Otherwise you will continue not to see the woods for the trees and decide to evade the whole perplexing conundrum by simply describing yourself as feeling tickled "pink."

Exegesis

First, in reference to you, I am primarily using logic, or cogent reasoning in order to explain the Christian reason for our belief, not biblical exegesis. Why? Because to use biblical exegesis with a person who disbelieves the Bible is illogical. Since your question is one that seems to challenge the logic of Christian belief in the second coming of Jesus. So I provide you with logical reasons we believe.


Biblical Exegesis
From the Catholic Encyclopedia

Exegesis is the branch of theology which investigates and expresses the true sense of Sacred Scripture.

Biblical Exegesis (http://www.catholicity.com/encyclopedia/e/exegesis,biblical.html)

The scriptures I provided needed no exegesis because the meaning of what they are saying is clear. What God foretells comes to pass. So which particular scripture you accuse me of trying to shed light upon via an explanation is beyond me. Again, pray tell!

Truth


Mark 13:32
"But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

The truth is that no Christian claims to know the exact time of Jesus' return. So if no Christian is claiming to know--why are you asking Christians to tell you? Furthermore, if Christians keep telling you they don't know, why do you keep asking them to tell you?
Is it logical to insist that Christians know when they clearly keep telling you that they don't?

Court of Law

If in a court of law I am asked the basis for my trust in promises found in a certain book
And I tell the judge that I trust those promises because the book's promises have never failed, he would view the basis for my trust in those promises as justified. In fact, distrust of such an unfailing book would be viewed in a court of law as illogical and totally unjustified.

Here is an informative site providing you with a logical reason why we trust the Bible as the word of God and its promises as trustworthy.

Prophecies Concerning Israel
Israel To Be Conquered By Assyria
Israel To Return To Their Land
Judah To Go Into Babylonian Exile
The People Would Return From Exile
Rebirth Of Israel As A Nation

Prophecies Concerning Israel's Neighbors
Prophecy Against Tyre
Prophecy Against Sidon
Prophecy Against Edom

Prophecies Concerning World History
Rise And Fall Of Babylon
Rise And Fall Of Persia
Rise And Fall Of Greece

Prophecies Concerning Jesus
Time Of Death
Manner Of Death
Conclusion

Proving the Bible is Divine Through Prophecy (http://www.givingananswer.org/articles/prophecy.html)


BTW
This is a bit off topic but I think you should know that not all scientists believe in a Godless universe. Also, please don't make an appeal to bandwagon or the majority is always right fallacy.

Excerpt

Today there are thousands of scientists who are creationists and who repudiate any form of molecules-to-man evolution in their analysis and use of scientific data. Creation scientists can now be found in literally every discipline of science, and their numbers are increasing rapidly. Evolutionists are finding it increasingly difficult to maintain the fiction that evolution is "science" and creation science is "religion". When news media personnel and others make such statements today, they merely reveal their own liberal social philosophies — not their awareness of scientific facts.
Lists of scientists are divided into sections. Choose a list below.

» Scientists in the Physical Sciences
» Scientists in the Biological Sciences
» Scientist List FAQ

Creation Scientists - Institute for Creation Research (http://www.icr.org/research/index/research_creationsci/)

Do real scientists believe in Creation? - ChristianAnswers.Net (http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-scientists.html)

Why Some Scientists Believe in God - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site (http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/2004/6/22/article_02.htm)

Hello again. Well all this that Freethinka has been saying sounds to me like he's stating that there's either science, or there's God. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
But In the Bible it also says that God created science. And He gave us a brain with which we could use it. If He hadn't created science, or given us the abilities our brain has, then we'd know nothing about how this world works. Scientists have been discovering principles used throughout the Bible and by Jesus which barely now they are proving to be right.
That molecule thing to me is very senseless. If we had been created by some cell or something of that nature, then what created the cell? And what created the thing that created the cell? And so on and so forth. What do you think was the very first molecule, cell or whatever that ever existed? How did that very first thing come to exist in the first place?? I am left with no answer, aren't you?
And just repeating what others have already told you, the Book of Rev. says Jesus will come when we least expect it, so how in the world are we supposed to know. Yet again some of those prophecies have to be fulfilled prior to his coming. Those will be the signs.
Actually we're not supposed to know the exact time he'll come, because Jesus wants us to be prepared, as in follow him, no matter if he won't come in our lifetime. To live each day as if it were our last. To not have to worry about knowing when he'll come because you will know that you'll be saved whenever he comes.
So conclusion... science is not only of man. God created science. But one cell did not create man... there's no proof.

It says in Revelations that God will appear in the beginning of the end of the world to collect all his disciples and followers and take them to the gates of Heaven. The rest shall be left to suffer a fate far worse than death.

I have a question for you, is the sun going to rise in the morning? Show Me Proof, or are you like me and just have faith that it is going to.

So have a good day tomorrow.

I have a question for you, is the sun going to rise in the morning? Show Me Proof, or are you like me and just have faith that it is going to.?

So have a good day tomorrow.

To answer your question, with the rotation of the Earth on its axis, which I am almost positive hasn't stopped, yes the sun will rise in the morning.

No one is trying to force any belief on you. We all our entitled to our own opinions and you clearly want nothing more then to bring down the options of others. If no one is asking you to place faith in heavenly father and Jesus Christ then why are you asking people to doubt their beliefs? This forum is not designed for picking fights.

No one is trying to force any belief on you. We all our entitled to our own opinions and you clearly want nothing more then to bring down the options of others. If no one is asking you to place faith in heavenly father and Jesus Christ then why are you asking people to doubt their beliefs? This forum is not designed for picking fights.

Your post is confusing. Are you talking to the OP or me? Use the quote user button:)

I have a question for you, is the sun going to rise in the morning? Show Me Proof, or are you like me and just have faith that it is going to.?

So have a good day tomorrow.

This is fairly easy to show proof for. I don't see your argument here.

Starman, do you have any non-creationist sources that state that scientists are tending more towards creationism? Surely the sources that you have used are rather biased.
Yes many scientists believe in God, I have no argument with that. A belief in God can live happily alongside the scientific truth of evolution, and this is the view of most religious scientists.

It says in Revelations that God will appear in the beginning of the end of the world to collect all his disciples and followers and take them to the gates of Heaven. The rest shall be left to suffer a fate far worse than death.


This only applies to those who believe... For the rest of us, we don't worry.

This only applies to those who believe...For the rest of us, we don't worry.

I was answering according to what the Bible says. I myself am a non-believer, so I don't have any reason to worry either. :)

I was answering according to what the Bible says. I myself am a non-believer, so I dont have any reason to worry either. :)

I thought I saw in another post of yours that you are Atheist... But now I can't find it. And are you the one who said there should be an Atheist board? If so, either way, I agree.
I think maybe it was on a different post :confused:

I thought I saw in another post of yours that you are Atheist...But now I can't find it. And are you the one who said there should be an Atheist board?? If so, either way, I agree.
I think maybe it was on a different post :confused:

Sorry if I confused you. When I said non-believer I was impying that I was Atheist.

Yes I did mention there should be an Atheist forum. I guess it files under "Other Religion". But maybe they will make one, because there are more Atheists out in the world than some people think.

Sorry if I confused you. When I said non-believer I was impying that I was Atheist.

Yes I did mention there should be an Atheist forum. I guess it files under "Other Religion". But maybe they will make one, because there are more Atheists out in the world than some people think.

I think you actually said you are Atheist.. but it's no big deal.

True, true... And a lot of them were actually former christians & such. :p

This is fairly easy to show proof for. I don't see your argument here.

Starman, do you have any non-creationist sources that state that scientists are tending more towards creationism? Surely the sources that you have used are rather biased.
Yes many scientists believe in God, I have no argument with that. A belief in God can live happily alongside the scientific truth of evolution, and this is the view of most religious scientists.

Do you have any non-evolutionist sources which support evolution? All the pro evolutionist sources are rather biased. Actually, as soon as a pro or con statement is made it can easily be tagged as biased simply because the one making it or the source
From which it is derived is pro or con. That would make all pro democracy statements by the USA government biased. It would make all anti rape statements by anti rape sources biased. All pro space exploration statements of NASA biased. Isn't that rather strange?

True, a non-commited source is preferable. But then again that source, such as perhaps Time Magazine will feature articles by a certain writer, like Hawkings, who is an atheist
And pro evolutionist. Does that make the article unbiased because it appears in a supposedly unbiased Magazine? In fact, the argument can be made that if Time Magazine features predominantly pro Evolutionist articles it is biased despite its claims otherwise.


The public education system which systematically indoctrinates or inculcates pro evolutionary and anti creation ideas and all the pro atheist literature it uses is biased.
Yet the very same people who are very keen on Creationist sources are the very ones defending the biased way in which our children are taught simply because it fits in
With their preconceptions and biases.

THE EVOLUTION DECEIT (http://www.ummah.net/harunyahya/evol/evol.html)

Do you have any non-evolutionist sources which support evolution? All the pro evolutionist sources are rather biased. Actually, as soon as a pro or con statement is made it can easily be tagged as biased simply because the one making it or the source
from which it is derived is pro or con. That would make all pro democracy statements by the USA government biased. It would make all anti rape statements by anti rape sources biased. All pro space exploration statements of NASA biased. Isn't that rather strange?

True, a non-commited source is preferable. But then again that source, such as perhaps Time Magazine will feature articles by a certain writer, like Hawkings, who is an atheist
and pro evolutionist. Does that make the article unbiased because it appears in a supposedly unbiased Magazine? In fact, the argument can be made that if Time Magazine features predominantly pro Evolutionist articles it is biased despite its claims otherwise.


The public education system which systematically indoctrinates or inculcates pro evolutionary and anti creation ideas and all the pro atheist literature it uses is biased.
Yet the very same people who are very keen on Creationist sources are the very ones defending the biased way in which our children are taught simply because it fits in
with their preconceptions and biases.


The Evolution Deceit (http://www.ummah.net/harunyahya/evol/ebk1-4.html)

I'll take that as a no then.

I'll take that as a no then.

No, simply a request that you produce what you are requesting of me-- a source which cannot be tagged immediately as biased simply for being pro or con.

BTW

I know that belief in a creator can live along the belief in the evolutionary process quite happily and it does in many cases. But from a purely Christian viewpoint, what the evolutionary explanation CANNOT live happily alongside of is the Bible as the inspired word of God which clearly tells us that man was made fully man and that animals and man are two unrelated creations.

Wikipedia tries to be unbiased at all times:
Level of support for evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution)

This is quite a good article which actually is quite favourable towards creationism.

Everyone has questions!! I don't care how religious or how non religious you are. Just some are raised to believe so strongly or others are so warped to even think of asking questions that might interfere with their beliefs.


Self_inflicted_hell you've done it again. :D

Wikipedia tries to be unbiased at all times:
Level of support for evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution)

This is quite a good article which actually is quite favourable towards creationism.

True, yet I could simply dismiss it by saying that the author is biased--no? Actually, the real question is what constitutes bias? Which of course is a totally different subject which will throw the whoile trhread off theme. Perhaps the subject can be discussed further in another forum such as philosophy? In any case, thanks for your decent informative responses. : )

Do you have any non-evolutionist sources which support evolution? All the pro evolutionist sources are rather biased. Actually, as soon as a pro or con statement is made it can easily be tagged as biased simply because the one making it or the source
from which it is derived is pro or con. That would make all pro democracy statements by the USA government biased. It would make all anti rape statements by anti rape sources biased. All pro space exploration statements of NASA biased. Isn't that rather strange?

True, a non-commited source is preferable. But then again that source, such as perhaps Time Magazine will feature articles by a certain writer, like Hawkings, who is an atheist
and pro evolutionist. Does that make the article unbiased because it appears in a supposedly unbiased Magazine? In fact, the argument can be made that if Time Magazine features predominantly pro Evolutionist articles it is biased despite its claims otherwise.


The public education system which systematically indoctrinates or inculcates pro evolutionary and anti creation ideas and all the pro atheist literature it uses is biased.
Yet the very same people who are very keen on Creationist sources are the very ones defending the biased way in which our children are taught simply because it fits in
with their preconceptions and biases.

THE EVOLUTION DECEIT (http://www.ummah.net/harunyahya/evol/evol.html)

Starman: an oxymoron is a christian scientist, a conflictiog situation, what do you think. :confused:

Starman: an oxymoron is a christian scientist, a conflictiog situation, what do you think.

Not exactly... as I said in my other reply, It says in the Bible that God also created science.
I really do not think it says anywhere in the Bible that God doesn't want us to believe in science altogether. Because he created it. Don't you think that if he hadn't then many people would die of all those mortal diseases, I don't think God wants that.
Yet, taking it all the way back to Adam and Eve, remember, they disobeyed God. The world was perfect before that happened. Remember it says that the serpent offered them "knowledge?" To know "Good from bad?" Remember it says that the serpent/satan is always misleading? That it's actions seem like it's the right thing but it's just dressed up.
Anyway when Adam and Eve decided to take the serpent's offer, God punished them. Yeah they acquired "knowledge" but just take a look at how we're using it now. Now we use the science that God created for something evil. Such as weapons and all sorts of things that damage this world and God's people. Which it is the price to pay for that initial disobedience. Since then, satan has been controlling our actions. And what Jesus was and still is trying to do, is save us from what we ourselves put us into.

Not exactly....as i said in my other reply, It says in the Bible that God also created science.

Out of curiosity, where in the Bible does it say that? I would like to read it. I have read the Old and New Testaments of the Bible, and part of the King James, and nowhere did I read that God created science. So please, enlighten me. :)

God created everything. God is the creator of everything. So that means he created the minds for science and discovery as well.

God created everything. God is the creator of everything. So that means he created the minds for science and discovery as well.

Can you point me in the direction of where it says that he created science in the Bible? Thanks :)

I never made that statement but since God is the creator of everything. That would mean that God created man the mind to actually understand science.

I never made that statement but since God is the creator of everything. That would mean that God created man the mind to actually understand science.

I know you didn't make that statement, I was just wondering if you could point me in the right direction.

If God created everything, show me black and white, hard evidence, or proof. I can explain how everything came to be through the science, astronomy and the theory of evolution.

In the bible it states that God created the world. So to me that says he created everything.

As far as saying specifically science, the answer is no. Since God created all things then that would lead me to believe that God is in charge of all things. Right? Even Science?

In the bible it states that God created the world. So to me that says he created everything.

As far as saying specifically science, the answer is no. Since God created all things then that would lead me to believe that God is in charge of all things. Right? Even Science?

Now let me ask you, what if you're wrong? I respect your beliefs and religion, but what if? Because I am not convinced unless I can see it for myself, or it can be proven.

I also didn't mean to sound as if it physically in words and directly states "God created science" or anything like that. I did mean that it does say he made the world perfect. Perfect as in everything works with each other. Everything is in harmony, such as the cycle of life. It works. Cycle after cycle, if not, everything would be a mess. And I agree with Jesushelper76, he gave us minds so we could understand his creations. States that he created us in his own image. He understands how he created the world, therefore he most probably thinks we should too. Just that we are very far from knowing this world as well as he does... because he's the Supreme Being and no one but him understands everything.
I hope that my attempt to "enlighten" you didn't confuse you more about my point.

I also didn't mean to sound as if it physically in words and directly states "God created science" or anything like that. I did mean that it does say he made the world perfect. Perfect as in everything works with each other. Everything is in harmony, such as the cycle of life. It works. Cycle after cycle, if not, everything would be a mess. And i agree with Jesushelper76, he gave us minds so we could understand his creations. States that he created us in his own image. He understands how he created the world, therefore he most probably thinks we should too. Just that we are very far from knowing this world as well as he does....because he's the Supreme Being and no one but him understands everything.
I hope that my attempt to "enlighten" you didn't confuse you more about my point.

In your theory God gave us a mind, but after a time, we learned and evolved to survive in a changing environment. Hence, the theory of evolution.

What if you're wrong? I also do respect your beliefs. I have nothing to lose eighter way? Do I ? The thing with me is that I have always had a strong personal belief since I was young. Since I can remember. The belief has always been within me. I focus on the unseen. There is a lot of things in this world and others that are unseen but does not mean it does not exist. Like the example I gave before. Air, we can not see it but it is there. For me it has been proven time and time again. I am alive. I am living. Look at all the things that are around us. Oceans, Sun, Moon, stars, so many different life forms. I have always had my prayers answered. I have always had a connection to the unseen. I know I may be going on. I just want to show you and let you see where I am coming from. I have a family, we just created a son together. He is 10 months old now. These are all things that would not be possible without us having a creator.

Another thing I would like to point out that we are all creators. Where did we get this from? We are all creators. That would mean that we had to have a creator ourselves. Just like we are creators for others. We were created in Gods image. Like M said, we were given the mind to explore and create as well.

What if you're wrong? I also do respect your beliefs. I have nothing to lose eighter way? Do I ? The thing with me is that I have always had a strong personal belief since I was young. Since I can remember. The belief has always been within me. I focus on the unseen. There is a lot of things in this world and others that are unseen but does not mean it does not exist. Like the example I gave before. Air, we can not see it but it is there. For me it has been proven time and time again. I am alive. I am living. Look at all the things that are around us. Oceans, Sun, Moon, stars, so many different life forms. I have always had my prayers answered. I have always had a connection to the unseen. I know I may be going on. I just want to show you and let you see where I am coming from. I have a family, we just created a son together. He is 10 months old now. These are all things that would not be possible without us having a creator.

Another thing I would like to point out that we are all creators. Where did we get this from? We are all creators. That would mean that we had to have a creator ourselves. Just like we are creators for others.

I will answer your question first. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. And I will me damned to Hell for all eternity for blasphemy. If I'm right, then nothing happens.

Growing up I was instilled with a strong sense of religion and church. But when I got to the age when I was old enough to understand what was going on, I began to question. No one could prove to me what I had been told most of my life was true. I have done the research, I have studied religion for countless years, but still can't find any hard physical proof. Like you, I do have a family, two boys, one 2 1/2, one three months. Like I have said before, everything that "God" has created I can explain with science.

Science is not the creator? Science is explanations of creation seen through some people.

Science is not the creator? Science is explanations of creation seen through some people.

I never once said that science was the creator. I stated that I can explain the creation of the universe, and the creation of man, THROUGH science. The "creator" is no more than a series of events that happened at the right place, at the right time.

God also gave us free will therefore also doubt. But also I should say satan uses his influence to inflict the doubt. I mean even Jesus doubted.

God also gave us free will therefore also doubt. But also i should say satan uses his influence to inflict the doubt. I mean even Jesus doubted.

I'm Atheist, this does not apply to me.

God gave freewill to all people. That is included you otto. Anyway, I am enjoying this discussion but will have to continue it another time. I am getting sleepy. Lol

Take care of yourself.

Joe

God gave freewill to all people. That is included you otto. Anyway, I am enjoying this discussion but will have to continue it another time. I am getting sleepy. lol

Take care of yourself.

Joe


Have a good night :)

By the way where in the world is the person who originally started this post?

The fact is that you have your beliefs and we have ours, and it sounds like you won't be letting go of yours soon, and we probably won't be letting go of ours. So it seems like this topic is a showdown but with no winner or looser.

By the way where in the world is the person who originally started this post?

The fact is that you have your beliefs and we have ours, and it sounds like you won't be letting go of yours soon, and we probably won't be letting go of ours. So it seems like this topic is a showdown but with no winner or looser.

Its an enlightening conversation. I enjoy it because I learn new things.

I agree with you otto, you certainly are able to learn more with these topics. And by the way, you asked earlier... "What if you're wrong?" Here's one advantage we have. If in case, I don't mean to doubt, we could be wrong, then we don't have to worry about it because nothing will happen to us. On the other hand, if YOU'RE wrong, then I don't really want to imagine what might happen. I'm am so not trying to judge you though, in my belief, God will deal with you like he sees it best.

I would give you a good rating but it says to spread the reputation.

Great answer. With your response, lets just hope I'm right, because Hell would probably not be good to me. LOL :) Have a good night.

Otto

This is fairly easy to show proof for. I don't see your argument here.

Starman, do you have any non-creationist sources that state that scientists are tending more towards creationism? Surely the sources that you have used are rather biased.
Yes many scientists believe in God, I have no argument with that. A belief in God can live happily alongside the scientific truth of evolution, and this is the view of most religious scientists.

I was not making an argument, only showing that a person needs faith. I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow but I am not positive, and just because it has done it for thousands of years does not mean it will tomorrow.

I was not making an argument, only showing that a person needs faith. I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow but I am not positive, and just because it has done it for thousands of years does not mean it will tomorrow.

You do not need faith to know the sun is going to rise tomorrow. It is a scientific fact that the sun is going to rise tomorrow, unless something catastrophic happens in the next few hours, which I doubt will happen.

But then in my belief God can terminate, make or destroy what and when he wants. So I have to say I'm split in this. Yes scientifically the sun WILL rise tomorrow, UNLESS something does happen which will not let it do so. So I know it will, but still have faith that it will. Does that make any sense?? :o

But then in my belief God can terminate, make or destroy what and when he wants. So i have to say i'm split in this. Yes scientifically the sun WILL rise tommorrow, UNLESS something does happen which will not let it do so. So I know it will, but still have faith that it will. Does that make any sense????:o

It makes sense to me. I understand you are torn between religion and what you can prove, all I can really say is step back and look at the big picture. I am sure you will make the right choice for you. Have a good night. Its been fun talking to you. :)

No, I am not doubting my belief in God and all I've said. If that's what you understood. Ok I guess not even I understood myself though. Anyway good night to you too.

Starman: an oxymoron is a christian scientist, a conflictiog situation, what do you think. :confused:

I think an evolutionist scientist fits that description since they ignore basic scientific principles when it suits them, discard evidence when it doesn't fit their precious ideas, all of which is blatantly anti-scientific.

Not exactly....as i said in my other reply, It says in the Bible that God also created science.
I really do not think it says anywhere in the Bible that God doesn't want us to believe in science altogether. Because he created it. Don't you think that if he hadn't then many people would die of all those mortal diseases, I don't think God wants that.
Yet, taking it all the way back to Adam and Eve, remember, they disobeyed God. The world was perfect before that happened. Remember it says that the serpent offered them "knowledge?" To know "Good from bad?" Remember it says that the serpent/satan is always misleading? That it's actions seem like it's the right thing but it's just dressed up.
Anyway when Adam and Eve decided to take the serpent's offer, God punished them. Yeah they acquired "knowledge" but just take a look at how we're using it now. Now we use the science that God created for something evil. Such as weapons and all sorts of things that damage this world and God's people. Which it is the price to pay for that initial disobedience. Since then, satan has been controlling our actions. And what Jesus was and still is trying to do, is save us from what we ourselves put us into.

:p "Onward christian soldiers marching on to war, with the cross of JC movin on the fore":p

I think an evolutionist scientist fits that description since they ignore basic scientific principles when it suits them, discard evidence when it doesn't fit their precious ideas, all of which is blatantly anti-scientific.
Please elaborate on this evidence and these principles which are ignored.

:p "Onward christian soldiers marching on to war, with the cross of JC movin on the fore":p


What you are describing is well-meaning but misguided apostasy from the clear Christian behavioral requirements found in the NT. I know it's popular to do so these days but the Bible doesn't support the idea of calling people who might be behaving satanically Christians.

Matthew 7:20 "Wherefore, by their fruits ye shall know them"...

You do not need faith to know the sun is going to rise tomorrow. It is a scientific fact that the sun is going to rise tomorrow, unless something catastrophic happens in the next few hours, which I doubt will happen.

Hubble images of dying stars force cosmic reconsideration

December 17, 1997
Web posted at: 5:51 p.m. EST (2251 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- New data gathered by NASA's Hubble Space Telescope reveal that sun-like stars are dying in a much more spectacular way than previously assumed, forcing scientists to rethink their theories on the process.

The images also cast new light on the final moments of our own sun, which is expected to die about 5 billion years from now.

Astronomers on Wednesday revealed pictures showing surprisingly intricate glowing patterns spun into space by dying stars. The shapes are reminiscent of pinwheels, lawn sprinkler-style jets, elegant goblet shapes, and rocket engine exhausts.

The new pictures show the dying stars emitting nebulous gasses in what scientists have dubbed a "final blaze of glory" as a star expands before burning out and becoming what is known as a white dwarf.

Scientists say that the new Hubble pictures completely overturn the current assumption that sun-like stars gracefully cast off a shell of glowing gas and then settle into a long retirement as a burned-out white dwarf.

"The first time we looked at the Hubble's breathtaking pictures, we knew that our older and simpler ideas of how these objects are formed had to be overhauled," said Howard Bond of the Space Telescope Science Institute.

Scientists point out that while the data are predominantly about stars dying, they are also about cosmic rebirth, since the heavier elements (like carbon) cooked in the stars are ejected into interstellar space as raw material for successive generations of stars, planets and, potentially, life.

Among the surprising new details revealed by the Hubble pictures:
Unexplained disks and "donuts" of dust girdling a star, which pinch outflowing gas.
Remarkably sharp, inner bubbles of glowing gas blown out by the violently outflowing gasses. This is called a "fast wind" (1,000 miles/sec) ejected during the final stages of a star's death.
Jets of high-speed particles that shoot out in opposite directions from a star and plow through surrounding gas, like a garden hose stream hitting a sand pile.
Pinwheel patterns formed by symmetrical ejection of material so that intricate structures are mirrored on the opposite side of a star.

This photo compares a ground-based image (L) taken under optimum conditions with a new image from Hubble

Bond said that these nebulae depicted in the new Hubble pictures also give a preview of our own sun's fate: "Some 5 billion years from now, after the sun has become a red giant and burned the Earth to cinder, it will eject its own beautiful nebula and then fade away as a white dwarf star."

Please follow this link for the pictures-
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9712/17/nasa.hubble/

Self_inflicted_hell , you are on the right track. The questions should be continued to be asked to unveil the beast...


This is getting scarey.

Ain't nothing wrong with asking questions, but it strikes me that you aren't really that interested in the answers to those questions. I can no more prove to you that Jesus lives than you can prove that "In the very beginning there was nothing except for a plasma soup (http://www.umich.edu/~gs265/bigbang.htm)." I can only testify of my experience, that once I was blind, but now I see. That's how I know Jesus lives, and it's the only way you'll know He lives - by believing, accepting and experiencing the transformation that comes with faith in Christ. Nothing scary about that, it's just how it is.

Steve

The images also cast new light on the final moments of our own sun, which is expected to die about 5 billion years from now.


You just proved MY point. In the article you copied and pasted our sun is expected to last another 5 billion years. So again I say, it is a scientific fact that the sun will rise again.

You just proved MY point. In the article you copied and pasted our sun is expected to last another 5 billion years. So again I say, it is a scientific fact that the sun will rise again.

LOL! Wasn't my intention, but glad to have been of help.
Just something I found on the net and thought it was relevant to your point.
But I must say this, scientists also did not think that global warming will affect as it is affecting today, they were thinking of a few 50 to 100 years down the line... so who knows what these scientific facts will continue to prove.

It does say that the sun may last 5 billion years, but the scientists do predict its death, so our children's great grand children might be the one's waking up to a sunless world... maybe not you or I.

Just a thought!!

LOL! wasnt my intention, but glad to have been of help.
just something I found on the net and thought it was relevant to your point.
But I must say this, scientists also did not think that global warming will affect as it is affecting today, they were thinking of a few 50 to 100 years down the line...so who knows what these scientific facts will continue to prove.

It does say that the sun may last 5 billion years, but the scientists do predict its death, so our childrens great grand children might be the one's waking up to a sunless world.....maybe not you or I.

Just a thought!!!

Thank you for that info! :)

Here's just a thought. There are Christian soldiers in the war in Iraq. As you must know all those middle east countries do not believe in the Christian Bible or Jesus. Perhaps some of those soldiers might be trying to spread God's word?? Any comments or corrections on this?

Here's just a thought. There are Christian soldiers in the war in Iraq. As you must know all those middle east countries do not believe in the Christian Bible or Jesus. Perhaps some of those soldiers might be trying to spread God's word??? Any comments or corrections on this??

I have been overseas. I fought in Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom. I also participated in the Battle of Fallujah in 2004. My experience, they are just as hard headed there as we are here. They have no problem having a conversaion about differences, or if you're just curious and want to learn. But just like with Christianity, there is no other God before their own, Allah.

I have been overseas. I fought in Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom. I also participated in the Battle of Fallujah in 2004. My experience, they are just as hard headed there as we are here. They have no problem having a conversaion about differences, or if you're just curious and want to learn. But just like with Christianity, there is no other God before their own, Allah.


I think for muslims the difference to other religions is that we already believe that Moses,Noah,Jesus etc are special/beloved in the sight of Allah, and believe they are among our messengers, hence they are not too keen on accepting them as Gods/demi gods.

Another thing is specially when people are defending their very own lives,their families it must be hard enough keeping faith or it could be Only faith that keeps them going.

Did you really fight in the war, must have seen things that are harsh and cruel.




:) :)

I have been overseas. I fought in Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom. I also participated in the Battle of Fallujah in 2004. My experience, they are just as hard headed there as we are here. They have no problem having a conversaion about differences, or if you're just curious and want to learn. But just like with Christianity, there is no other God before their own, Allah.


I think for muslims the difference to other religions is that we already believe that Moses,Noah,Jesus etc are special/beloved in the sight of Allah, and believe they are among our messengers, hence they are not too keen on accepting them as Gods/demi gods.

Another thing is specially when people are defending their very own lives,their families it must be hard enough keeping faith or it could be Only faith that keeps them going.

Did you really fight in the war, must have seen things that are harsh and cruel.




:) :) :( :(

Sorry about the repetition,something went wrong here..

Why do we need proof of jesus? Other than our own personal proofs.
Faith!
I have seen people I trust and admire, who are rational people, who would never lie to me, tell me face to face, that jesus exists, that they have felt gods touch, and that is enough to me.
I walk into a room, our church, and see so many people that I have grown to trust and admire in one place.
Are there like 50 people, in one place, who you would trust with your life? Who all believe the same thing?

I've gone to catholic churches all throughout my life because my parents took me, the sad thing is that I can tell just by looking at a glance around the room, that at least 60% of the people there don't quite have anything to be doing there. Not trying to offend them in any way but I think it's the truth. I mean, women fixing their hair, scolding their restless children, guys looking at girls. Minds wandering off, chatter, in shorter words, their mind and soul aren't focused on the point of being there. So I guess what I'm saying is, I haven't seen 50 people at once in which I would ever trust with my life.

Here's just a thought. There are Christian soldiers in the war in Iraq. As you must know all those middle east countries do not believe in the Christian Bible or Jesus. Perhaps some of those soldiers might be trying to spread God's word??? Any comments or corrections on this??


Well you must be really dumb because Jesus was middleastern. 30 percent of palestinians are christian. 50 percent of lebanon is christian you idiot. Their prince is christian. Look this up... why would you take this away from them? The bells go off on sundays in Iran for Churches. You need to meet more middle eastern people. I can't believe this post thinks everyone in the middle east does not believe in Jesus? Muslims even believe in JEsus! Their holy book talks about MAry for an entire chapter. Go to your local book store and read on this...

Well you must be really dumb because Jesus was middleastern. 30 percent of palestinians are christian. 50 percent of lebanon is christian you idiot. Their prince is christian. Look this up...why would you take this away from them? The bells go off on sundays in Iran for Churches. You need to meet more middle eastern people. I can't believe this post thinks everyone in the middle east does not believe in Jesus? Muslims even believe in JEsus! Their holy book talks about MAry for an entire chapter. Go to your local book store and read on this...

If you are going to post something, please research before you post. Lebanon is only 39% Christian, and 60% Muslim. The U.A.E. (which is where I was deployed to) is 96% Muslim.

You were right on one part, they do believe in Jesus, but only as a messenger to mankind. The God of Gods in the Muslim religion is Allah.

You were way off point. METERRE was referring to Americans spreading the word of God. He/she (sorry I'm not sure) never said anything about taking anything away from them. You owe this person an apology, and do everyone a favor and read posts more carefully before responding.

Once again I must clarify myself. I do know that there are Christians in those countries, but what I had in mind was that they don't believe in Jesus like we do. As in the Son of God, just like someone else stated. I never said I thought everyone in those countries don't believe in God or Jesus. And of course I know that no matter in what language you say God, he's still considered the same being. Excuse me for my confusing posts.
And who doesn't know that Jesus was from one of those countries? It's so not my intention to take anything away from them. Sorry if in any way I offended anyone.
Let me tell you something mario3, calling someone an idiot right off the bat says a lot more about you, than it really does about the other person. Before you judge someone just take a look at yourself first.
And just to pinpoint something my post was just a simple suggestion which I asked for correction, I mean, no one has all the answers. But really thanks anyway for your info.

Otto, I meant to disagree with you. Allah just means God in another language. Also, Jesus is the Messiah (the Muslim text says this). He is a dear prophet of God, but he is not considered a birth child of God.

This is the information I was looking at : Islam Guide: What Do Muslims Believe about Jesus? (http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-10.htm)

If its wrong, I apologize. But it says here that Jesus was a messenger, it never says prophet. If messenger and prophet are the same thing, well it looks like I learned something new.

This is the information I was looking at : Islam Guide: What Do Muslims Believe about Jesus? (http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-10.htm)

If its wrong, I apologize. But it says here that Jesus was a messenger, it never says prophet. If messenger and prophet are the same thing, well it looks like i learned something new.


003.081
" Behold! Allah took the covenant of the prophets, saying: "I give you a Book and Wisdom; then comes to you a messenger, confirming what is with you; do ye believe in him and render him help." Allah said: "Do ye agree, and take this my Covenant as binding on you?" They said: "We agree." He said: "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."

Excerpts from the following link-

http://www.quran-islam.org/113.html

"Verse 3:81, among many other verses, provides the definitions of "Nabi" (Prophet) and "Rasoul" (Messenger). Thus, "Nabi" is a messenger of God who delivers a new scripture, while "Rasoul" is a messenger commissioned by God to confirm existing scripture; he does not bring a new scripture. According to the Quran, every "Nabi" is a "Rasoul," but not every "Rasoul" is a "Nabi." It is not logical that God will give a scripture to a prophet, then ask him to keep it exclusively for himself, as stated by some Muslim "scholars" (2:42, 146, 159).

The Quranic definition of Prophet, and how all the prophets were given Scripture to deliver, is also confirmed in the following verse:

"The people used to be one community when God sent THE PROPHETS as bearers of good news, as well as warners. HE SENT DOWN WITH THEM THE SCRIPTURE, bearing the truth, to judge among the people in their disputes" 2:213

"In other terms ALL THE PROPHETS are MESSENGERS, but NOT ALL the MESSENGERS are PROPHETS."

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Hope the above is helpful... :) :)

I've gone to catholic churches all throughout my life because my parents took me, the sad thing is that i can tell just by looking at a glance around the room, that atleast 60% of the people there don't quite have anything to be doing there. Not trying to offend them in any way but i think it's the truth. I mean, women fixing their hair, scolding their restless children, guys looking at girls. Minds wandering off, chatter, in shorter words, their mind and soul aren't focused on the point of being there. So i guess what i'm saying is, i haven't seen 50 people at once in which i would ever trust with my life.

I sit in my church, and I can actually count about 50 people who are intent on what the pastor is saying and who either pray or sing and who all believe.

How much longer before he come back,
anyone know, let me know please...


Does Jesus live? Yes, He is alive, raised from the dead on the third day after his crucificaxtion by the Romans. That is FACT and History, proven. His is the only tomb that is empty!

How much longer before he come back? No one knows. So live each day as the ulitmate special guest (Jesus Christ) would and could be arriving.

It is clear that you are very torn between two sides of yourself; shown by your questions and responses but also by referencing yourself in the third person.

Before Jesus was crucified Pilate asked Him a question:

36 Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world.”

37 Pilate said, “So you are a king?”

Jesus responded, “You say I am a king. Actually, I was born and came into the world to testify to the truth. All who love the truth recognize that what I say is true.”

Jesus responded that people who love the truth hear what He is saying is true. I think you seek the TRUTH not just answers. I would recommend that you would pray that the TRUTH would be revealed to you personally.

We can all give our opinions and debate but what it comes down to is what you hear and hopefully that ends up being the TRUTH

That is FACT and History, proven. His is the only tomb that is empty!!Well I wouldn't go as far as saying it is fact and is proven. It is written up in a book that man wrote. People don't even know where the grave was.

Well I wouldn;t go as far as saying it is fact and is proven. It is written up in a book that man wrote. People don't even know where the grave was.



So ALL historic events have been proven beyond being written in a book by man? ALso can you disprove that this event took place? Because this event was witnessed by many people when it occurred... and written down like many other events in history

I agree with you mountain man :) and those people that wrote the bible were inspired by God, in so much that I could actually say that God used their hands to write the bible, to the unbeliever this might sounds foolish, but what is foolish to sinners is greatness to God

So ALL historic events have been proven beyond being written in a book by man? ALso can you disprove that this event took place? Becuase this event was witnessed by many people when it occurred...and written down like many other events in history
You're correct, of course, all of our knowledge of the past comes from human writing and as such is very liable to bias and fabrication. Historians accept this and it is their job to determine what happened and what didn't. Your point doesn't back up the Bible as truth as I think you think it does, but you point out that the rest of history could be innaccurate in places, which is widely accepted. Of course we have archaeological and relical evidence for much of history, too, not just human writings, this helps to make sure that the words are accurate.

There is archaeological and relical evidence to the bible, as the places described in it are all real and many of them have been found.

Im muslim and I can tell some true facts from our holly Quran... the story is as GOD delivered it to prophet Muhamed " Jesus ,the son of virgin Mary was not killed nor was he hung or anything but instead another man who looked exactly like him and GOD has made Jesus and his spirit rise to him so people thought he was killed ,Jesus is also now alive but up in heaven and when the signs of the end of the world come ,Jesus will come down and will kill a very evil creature not sure if he's human who will have like magic powers and will try to make people believe that his god and then Jesus would die on earth land after he kills that creature and then life would end and every person would go to either heaven or hell )

Hope its helpful and its true :)

Im muslim and I can tell some true facts from our holly Quran...the story is as GOD delivered it to prophet Muhamed " Jesus ,the son of virgin Mary was not killed nor was he hung or anything but instead another man who looked exactly like him and GOD has made Jesus and his spirit rise to him so people thought he was killed ,Jesus is also now alive but up in heaven and when the signs of the end of the world come ,Jesus will come down and will kill a very evil creature not sure if he's human who will have like magic powers and will try to make people believe that his god and then Jesus would die on earth land after he kills that creature and then life would end and every person would go to either heaven or hell )

Hope its helpful and its true :)

budgiebreeder,
What you are talking about is the AntiChrist or the Dajjal as muslims call it.

And what you say is true that Jesus (Peace be upon him) will return to earth near the end of times as muslims believe and all those who has been lying about him will see the truth.
And after the AntiChrist is killed there will be peace on earth for a long time as muslims believe and after that (no ones know when) will come the day of Resurrection.

:)

there is archaeological and relical evidence to the bible, as the places described in it are all real and many of them have been found.I don't think many dispute the fact that many of the places names are real.

Just putting this out there Revalations was written by a man who was trapped on a desserted island without any food or water. How do we know it's true- perhaps he was hallucinating, or maybe because he was dying he thought he saw G-d and the end of the world coming. How can you be sure that the end of the world is coming at all? How do you know that the Messiah has already come...

Just putting this out there Revalations was written by a man who was trapped on a desserted island without any food or water. How do we know it's true- perhaps he was hallucinating, or maybe because he was dying he thought he saw G-d and the end of the world comming. How can you be sure that the end of the world is comming at all? How do you know that the Messiah has already come...

Are you asking specifically for a christian viewpoint? Or...