Islam and Judaism [Archive] - Ask Me Help Desk

G4-450

Jul 10, 2005, 03:45 PM

Judaism is based on the unique historical event of a divine revelation experienced by the entire nation. Whereas Islam is based on the prophetic claims of a single individual who subsequently convinced others to follow his ways.

Hi

i am confused by your post, can you point to some links to provide more information as to how Judaism is based on the unique historical event of a divine revelation experienced by the entire nation" ?

From what i understand: Israel was the name God gave to Jacob in Genesis 32:28. He had twelve sons: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Issachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Joseph and Benjamin.

Eventually the families of these sons became the twelve tribes of Israel, each tribe being named after the respective son of Jacob (Israel).

So Israel and Jacob are the same person.
Judah is one of the tribes = Judaism. this is all after Abraham and Moses.
And Jesus also was from the line of Abraham's Progeny, no?

Matt.1 [1] The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
Matt.1 [17] So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
This is why it sounds confusing to anyone who has never really fallowed any religion, or comes from one of them alone.

I have found the Koran to state that
[3.67] Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists.
[2.134] This is a people that have passed away; they shall have what they earned and you shall have what you earn, and you shall not be called upon to answer for what they did.
[2.135] And they say: Be Jews or Christians, you will be on the right course. Say: Nay! (we follow) the religion of Ibrahim, the Hanif, and he was not one of the polytheists.
[2.62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

Most of the Koran agrees with the Bible from what i understand, it does not need the support of any man and seems to point to been Muslim as a verb no matter what religion you are, in fact even Jesus prayed like Abraham, which is how muslims pray.
Genesis 17:3 "And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him.
Exodus 34:8 "And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped."
Numbers 20:6 And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto them.
Ezekiel 9:8 "And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! Wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?"
Matthew 17:6 "And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid."
Matthew 26:39 "And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."

Just mentioning all this since everyone is killing each other out there and i can not understand for what. like on one hand i can understand some people want oil and the others want justice, but how far is this going to go is another question in history, who's story.

but really, can you point to some links about that one, thanks

jduke44

Jul 11, 2005, 07:17 PM

Ummm, let me see if I can shed some light on this without going in to a long post. I am going to hit the highlights and go from there (Forgive me for not having the exact scriptural ref), OK? Abraham was tld by God he was going to be the faher of many nations. This is where Isaac comes from and it did happen. Through his Isaacs seed(line) Jesus is born. You asked what Isaac and Jacob have to do with these roots since they are both Abraham's children. I don't understand your question since Jacob is Isaac's sonnot Abraham's son(maybe you meant Ishmael?

Ishmael is Abraham's other son through Sarah's handmade. That is another nation. Even though God didn't want it to happen that way he wanted it through Sarah, God still blessed his son. (Abraham got impatient and thought he would hurry things up and here is Ishmael.) God wasn't happy but he promised Abraham that Ishmael's seed will be blessed also. Therefore, a nation was born out of Ishmael.

I know people are going to disagree with me but the war we are fighting turned into a spiritual war. Muslim nation hates the Christian and Judaism nation. Nations have been fighting for generations.

This does sound confusing but with god it does become very simple. Please post more questions and I'll try to answer them more fully and point you to some links if I can find them

G4-450

Jul 11, 2005, 08:31 PM

Abraham was tld by God he was going to be the faher of many nations. This is where Isaac comes from nd it did happen. Through his Isaacs seed(line) Jesus is born. You asked what Isaac and Jacob have to do with these roots since they are both Abraham's children. I don't understand your question since Jacob is Isaac's son not Abraham's son(maybe you meant Ishmael?.

Ishmael is Abraham's other son through Sarah's handmade. That is another nation. Even though God didn't want it to happen that way he wanted it through Sarah, God still blessed his son. (Abraham got impatient and thought he would hurry things up and here is Ishmael.) God wasn't happy but he promised Abraham that Ishmael's seed will be blessed also. Therefore, a nation was born out of Ishmael.

I know people are going to disagree with me but the war we are fighting turned into a spiritual war. Muslim nation hates the Christian and Judaism nation. Nations have been fighting for generations.

Very confusing indeed,

I can not say that muslims hate other religions, but they certainly state that they hate polytheists, at-least that was what I read the Kabaah Abraham built was about.

But what is more confusing is that people tend to believe in these religions with racial discrimination.

For example,
Judaism is a religion, Islam is a religion, Christianity is a religion and even hinduism is a religion, but Hinduism is a polytheists religion. While Abraham is the line of One Allmighty God and the kabaa was to establish a non polytheist religion, is that correct?

But, we had Adolph Hitler who called the jews a race, and the U.S. Government shocked many jews by claiming them as a ethnic minority.
All sound like polythiests opinions too.

And now there are even more people confused about one God, and many seem to want to have there own personal God around to justify what they really worship, which could be power, money, greed..

I still do not get where the muslims come in as the enemy here if they are not polytheists. at least the most part of who pratices correctly.
Yet, maybe they are the enemies of thee global consumer market and at the least the undesirables to it all.

Would it be safe to say that polytheists are people who always put material things between themselves and others, god's enemies?
Not the jews, christians or Muslims. just who ever is a polythiest..

G4-450

Jul 12, 2005, 03:04 AM

satin says let the child of abraham bring forth islam again for what reason to confuse to destroy your soul to weed out those who are not born with in the truth of god himself,

Interesting; Where did you find satan saying this?
And your post seems confusing, no offense.

I have come to the conclusion that people have the nature to love, all of us, every single one. but some forget that it also means worship.

Worship;
1-The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.
2-The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.
3-Ardent devotion; adoration

I so far understand that when a person loves anything BUT God first,he or she broke the first and most important rule..

Mark 12:29
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord...

Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 15:19
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Seems that when people start making there own rules, to justify unGodly ones, then its clear they lost there souls. I see people everyday judging others based on income, wealth and other falsee things that they disregard there lives as worthy.
Polytheists allways put between them and other humans there ignorance of what ideas they have that god is (what they actually worship),
Many of these people forgot God created everyone.And you ask ¿WHAT GOD IS IT THAT THEY WORSHIP THAT COULD NOT CREATE YOU AND ME?

I do not agree with the people that say, God loves jews and non jews are vermin.. Or the people that say the jews killed Jesus. or that Mohammed killed all Jews or Christians.

I do agree with people that say, the God of Abraham is the one true God. and the message is the same for every generation till today. Gods promise of bliss on earth is only to those who rightious, not the rich.

If understood so far, you stated that no one knows why we are here on earth, but yet Jesus was born with out a mortal father and like adam, the first man who was also created with either a mortal mother or father and Adam fell into temptation, which is what seems to be the thing everyione is dealing in this world with, sins

God loved Abraham because he was not a polytheists right?
And Abraham believed in the God that created all humanity, and he was rightious to seek the truth.

So far, I see all religions teaching this here, even Islam teaches that Abraham was the father of the one God religion, and that life is full of trials and polytheism is a addiction.

Conclusion so far;
All Abrahamic faiths are build on the promise that God will grant his blessing only on the righteous.

I still will not support killing for oil. I really am starting to believe that the 3 religions are fine if no one intervenes by fallowing there own unGodly rules.

G4-450

Jul 12, 2005, 11:25 AM

so why did god create satin he did it to destroy evil who else is evil who is the god of evil satin himself he had no choice god said you will be the evil one and jesus will be the good one oh no satin says i will not be the evil one i want to be god.so i will try to defeat jesus on earth as i could not do in heaven after satin is destroyed then god will be set free from the understanding and the knowing of evil from with in himself ,through satin ergo jerusalim and islam so wake up and smell the gutenburg presses

Well, the way you typed this looks confusing. but i read it..

I never knew Jesus had anything directly to do with Satan since Satan himself, Adam, Noa, abraham, moses where all before jesus., can you share where you got this information again,
Beware that Satan lies and tricks people into believing illusionary things, yo do not want to sound like this do you?

I have no intention to offend you so you know, i am only trying to ask why these people are all killing each other for when they are the same children of Abraham... So far, i do not think its all based on Abrahams idea but Satans to do this?

Wars existed before Abraham, Cane kills able, his own brother, and you still have ignorant people killing each other under the impression of race ideologies even when there own brothers can be as evil as Cane.

When the Crusades attacked Jerusalem, they killed ethnic jews and christians, not Muslims alone, so that shows how ignorant they judged people.. judge people by appearance will not help you keep evil out of your home even if you lock your doors and your own children are possesed in tere minds to kill you for your money is it?

Jesus said the Truth will let you free,
[31] Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If yea continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
[32] And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. To worship God is believing in God, believing in God's is doing his will, and the will is to do his commandments. common sense teaches us today that these people who break them get steeper into crimes not only against others but also against there own souls. been a bad conscience is what they end up with, and burn in hell from it, even now, here.

BTW doing God's will means 'Muslim' in arabic. been jewish is also making a verb which all

Matt.12
[50] For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
John 4:23-24
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.
Matt.7
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matt.19
[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Who did Jesus have a problem with
-the children of Ishmail= 12 tribes=Keder..
(who Jesus referred to as from the book of Isiah:42)
-the children of Isaac's child; Jacob AKA Israel-> the children if Israel?
-or those who became jews from the tribe of Judah?

Evil people will never HEAR the truth, i think when people are obsessed by something they can not comntrol themselves about, they will not hear you.
You may find yourself in a life threatening situation with materialists like this.

John.8
[37] I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
[38] I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
[39] They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
[40] But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
[41] Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
[42] Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
[43] Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word.
[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
[45] And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
[46] Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
[47] He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
[48] Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
[49] Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
[50] And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
[51] Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
[52] Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
[53] Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? And the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
[54] Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
[55] Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
[56] Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
[57] Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
[58] Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
[59] Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Can you post LINKS you get your information from?

god created satin to destroy evil and all of his fellow angels who have fallen to earth and here they are embraced by the children of islam.so why did god create satin he did it to destroy evil who else is evil who is the god of evil satin himself I was under the impression that Satan was here before humans, and is here to Destroy anyone who is and does not believe in god.
Where did you find that Satan is here to destroy evil?

satin says i will not be the evil one i want to be god.so i will try to defeat jesus on earth as i could not do in heaven after satin is destroyed then god will be set free from the understanding and the knowing of evil from with in himself ,through satin ergo jerusalim and islam so wake up and smell the gutenburg presses And where did you get that Jesus and Satan had a direct compatition? from my quote above this must mean the Jews are satans tribe then no?
Judaism is a greek pagan name by the way. but i would love to see a link.
Thanks.

jduke44

Jul 12, 2005, 02:53 PM

G4-450

Jul 12, 2005, 05:07 PM

G4-450, I heard on the news or in the paper, I can't remember, where Osama or another Muslim leader was saying that anyone who was not Muslim is an infidel which makes me believe they hate other religions. If I misunderstood then I apologize. Unfortunately, I am writing this from work so I don't have the time to look up links to find that article.
Yeah, I can not find anything that says Islam or Muslims hate other religions, I can agree with the fact that they share what the Koran says when I ask them though. and that is simple.

[5.69] Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.

[3.83] Is it then other than Allah's (eng=GOD'S) religion that they seek (to follow), and to Him submits whoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and to Him shall they be returned.

[3.84] Say: We believe in Allah (eng=GOD) and what has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and what was given to Musa (MOSES) and Isa(JESUS) and to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.
[3.85] And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.
[3.86] How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their believing and (after) they had borne witness that the Apostle was true and clear arguments had come to them; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.
1- Does not matter what religions you want to fallow after Abraham's, as long as you do good and remember meeting God on the last day.
2- But once you know the story and you prefer another religion, your reasons will be your loss to other people and there society for choosing them over Gods religion, which means submit to his will.
Because the story is that people made these religions after Abraham.

This is what they say, and it sounds completely opposite from the medias.

For example: Judaism is based on the Tora, the old testament in the bible.
Yet: The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book, they consider it more holy then the Tora AKA old testament in the bible. Christ and even Mohammed condemned the traditions of the Mishnah (early Talmud) and those who taught it (Scribes and Pharisees), because the Talmud nullifies the teachings of the Holy Bible.. (Mark 7:1-13)The Pharisees teach for doctrine the commandments of rabbis, not God.

You can read in the Talmud:
Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.
Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.
Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows

Sanhedrin 106a . Jesus' mother : "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

"The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of 'Jesus the Nazarene':
1) He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).
2) He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).
3) He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh, which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).

Shabbath 116a. Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament.
I can go on... but orthodox jews practice all 660+ commandments and not just the 10 we all heard of, these above are some of them.

So these certain leaders of the scribes did the same thing to Mohammed that they did to Jesus when they met him, not that they are the same people, but people who consider there books the holiest thing on the planet.

This makes Islam look clean if you ask me, the only draw back is racism has its roots in the Talmud. if you read it online places you will see.
Judaic history, remember, are only one of the 12 tribes and where 14 Generations after Abraham, according to the Gospel MARK 1.

So, Islam is the only religion in history of allowed other religions to live under there administration. this is why I am posting all this, I can not believe the whole U.S. war thing has anything to do with Islam other then sharing the wealth with arab sheiks who rose the prices after getting Sadam out of the way because he started to deal with Russia after all those years Osama worked for the CIA in Afghanistan to get them out of the picture.

But the one thing that strikes me as clear propaganda is when you say anything about anyone been Jewish, its anti Semitic, yet arabs are very Semitic and Judaism is only a religion, the claims to both rites are false and invented.

I still think people should have a second look at who is creating all the real problems and why on this planet. these people do not belong to any group, and they can be anyone, even your kids.

Morganite

Sep 15, 2005, 05:16 PM

Peace and love to everyone

I want to understand the difference between Islam and Judaism, there roots between the children of Abraham, who is the founder of all 3 faiths (Judaism, Chriostianity and Islam) to one God Almighty, and the Ka'Baa..

Can someone explain what Isaac and Jacob have to do with these roots since they both are the children of the same Father, Abraham and about the Ka'Baah,
and yes, Peace again to all.

Only Yitzak is the son of Abraham. Yacub is the son of Yitzak. Do not forget Ishmael.

Judaism preceded Christianity. Judaism and Christianity preceded Islam.

The fundamental premise of Christianity is that Jesus is the promised Messiah.

The fundamental premise of Islam is that both Judaism and Christianity have wandered from the truth and the revelations to Mohammed in Al Qur'an have restored knowledge of the True God.

Judaism and Islam are strictly monotheistic. Christianity is sometimes viewd as tritheistic.

The Ka’aba is honoured only in Islam, where it is considered to be the House Of Allah

In the province of Hejaz in the western part of Arabia, not far from the Red Sea, there lies the town of Makka. In the centre of this town there is a small square building made of stones, about 60 feet long, 60 feet wide and 60 feet high. Since time immemorial this town and this stone built house has been known to world travellers. This is Bait-ullah, the House of Allah. Its sanctity and antiquity is said to be older than history itself, although this is doubtful.

Islamic tradition says that the Kaaba was ordained by Allah to be built in the shape of the House in Heaven called Bait-ul Ma’amoor. Allah in his infinite Mercy ordained a similar place on earth and Prophet Adam was the first to build this place.

Muslims insist that the Bible, in the Chapter of Genesis describes its building when God ordained Abraham to erect a Shrine for worship when Abraham was ordered to go to the Southern desert with his wife Hagar and her son Ishmael.

Muslims say that the Old Testament describes this building as the Shrine of God at several places, but the one built at Ma’amoor is very much similar to the one at Makka. According to Islam, there is no doubt that it was referring to the stone built house at Makka.

Al Qura’an, they say, brought this story into the full light of history.

In Sura 3 Verse 90 Qora’an says “Allah has spoken the Truth, therefore follow the creed of Ibrahim [Abraham], a man of pure faith and no idolater”. The first house established for the people was at Makka, for a Holy place and a guidance to all beings. Al Qura’an, say Muslims, firmly establishes the fact that Ibrahim was the real founder of the Holy Shrine.

These claims can not be verified in secular history, but that is not unusual with some of the odder claims of religionists, such as the claim that the House of Mary the mother of Jesus was transported miraculously to a place called Walsingham in England, where, it is said, it still stands.

It is incorrect to claim Abraham as the founder of either Judaism, Christianity, or Islam. The best that can be done is to honour the patriarch as the father of Ishmael and Isaac, and the grandfather of Jacob, and the great-great grandfather of the bnei-yisrael.

Out of Judaism came Christianity, so that Abraham is the spiritual grandfather of Christians who are not of Abrahamic descent, and the same applies to Islam, although Abraham is the progenitor of the bnei-ishmael who, according to legend, became the princess of Arabia, said the number twelve, like the children of Jacob/.

Jesus warned against relying on descent from Abraham as a means of ensuring salvation or special preference.

MORGANITE

Morganite

Sep 15, 2005, 05:49 PM

Peace and love to everyone

I want to understand the [...] Ka'Baa..

In Islam, the Mosque follows the pattern of the synagogue, as Christian churches do, while the Kaaba, a wholly different institution, represents the temple;
(Gustav E. von Grunebaum, Mohammadan Festivals (New York: Schuman, 1951), 20-21; Elie Lambert, "La Synagogue de Doura-Europos et les origines de la mosquée," Semitica 3 (1950): 67-72.)

When Omar conquered and entered Jerusalem in 638 he asked first of all to be shown "the glorious Temple that Solomon had built," only to discover that the Christians had converted the place into a garbage dump.

The treasure that the churchmen had so foolishly thrown away the Moslems were quick to exploit, promptly rebuilding the temple and restoring it to its prestige as a center of world pilgrimage.

They had already harnessed its unique powers by "transferring to Mecca cosmological ideas in vogue among Jews and Christians concerning the sanctuary of Jerusalem," and though the legends of the Kaaba, of its founding and refounding by Adam and Abraham as an earthly replica of the eternal preexistent heavenly prototype, etc. were borrowed freely from Jerusalem, there is no long history of bitter rivalry between the two.

The Kaaba is a small bulding in the courtyatd of the central mosque in Meccsa, that houses the black polished stone which is th eobject of pilgrimage and veneration.

For Islam, Jerusalem remained par excellence the City of the Holy House, and as late as the eleventh century anyone who could not make the Hajj to Mecca was instructed to go to the great feast at Jerusalem instead.

Moslem intellectuals, exactly as the Jewish and Christian doctors before them, protested against the glorification of a mere building, and campaigned vigorously against the pilgrimages, but the temple had a powerful advocate in Christian jealousy. Like children fighting for a toy, each faction came to prize the temple more highly when it saw how much the other wanted it.

This jealous rivalry became apparent on the very day Omar entered Jerusalem and visited the temple ruins "in all humility and simplicity."

The Christians, who saw in his unassuming manner "only a Satanic hypocrisy," were piously horrified at the sight, and the Patriarch Sophronius cried out:

"This, surely, is the Abomination of Desolation in the Temple, of which David [sic] prophesied."

For the Christians it was their temple now, though they had turned it into a dungheap.

Such horror the Jews of old had expressed at the sight of profane feet in the temple, and presently the Moslems took up the refrain, banishing Christians and Jews on pain of death from the sacred precincts "where the Saracens believe, according to their law, that their prayers are more readily answered than anywhere else."

The only genuine religious clashes between Christians and Moslems, Müller informs us of the Crusades, were the two fights for the temple, when the Christians took it in 1099 and the Moslems got it back in 1187--"und damit war die Geschichte des Glaubenskrieges als solches ziemlich aus."[thus was the history of religious war worked out] - loose trs.

Solomon's Temple was in each case, as it had been in Jewish times, the last redoubt; there alone neither side gave or asked for quarter; it was the ultimate all-out objective, and each conqueror in turn entered the holy place with songs of apocalyptic joy.

Actually the possession of the temple complex was more than a mere matter of prestige. In the endless rivalries of the Christian sects there was just one claim to supreme authority that could neither be duplicated nor matched:

"Those who cannot be reached by scriptural and doctrinal arguments," says a writing attributed to Athanasius, "are bound to credit the claims of that church which holds the holy places, including "Zion, where the salvation of the world was worked out. . . . And if the opposition say that we hold those places by the brute force of imperial arms, let them know that . . . Christ has never allowed His Places to fall into the hands of heretics."

It was a strong argument until Islam took over.

The Moslems teach that the Kaaba was put into orbit around the earth during the flood, descending again after the danger was over, certainly suggesting the nature of the thing as a meteoric stone (Tha'labi).
(Qisas al-Anbiya' [Cairo: Mustafa Bab al-Halabi, A. H. 1340], p. 214f.)

It was thought that Mohammed's death would put a final stop to the progress of his religion; some persons gave him poison to see whether he was a prophet or not, and it was his belief that poison was the cause of his death. He died at the age of sixty-three, in 632, and was succeeded by his father-in-law, Abu Bukker, who was very faithful in sustaining the prophet during his life, and who was acknowledged as the first Khalif after the prophet's death.

This man continued the war which Mohammed had commenced, for when the prophet had found that the people would not leave their pagan idols by being preached to, he concluded the sword was the best argument; he therefore decided he would take up the line of march to his native city, sustained by a powerful army.

He destroyed the idols in the Kaaba, the temple of Mecca, and dedicated it to be the great temple of Mohammedt, and the centre of Islamic worship, which position it has held up to the present time.

G4-450

Sep 15, 2005, 10:46 PM

Well

I think allot of what you posted is bizare indeed

The kabbah is a idea, testimony Abraham founded.
Abraham took his son Ishmael (Gen not Isaac his 2nd son) as a sacrifice, offering it for ransom and God finally refused, this was to state that on the last day even your sons will not be accepted and some evil people will offer there sons as well as everything they have to avoid the hellfire.

The kabbah was and is a place of pilgrimage not worship, its not worshipped, and any one who believed in God at the time Mohammed was facing his own uncles tribe persecuting him helped mohammed fight them and remove the idols from the kabbah, simple as that.

Who ever did not help mohammed and new the scriptures where the hypocrites and liars for it was written clearly that Abraham is the founder of the one true God religion and a friend of God's. diverting into any other religions aka sects is again the worked of Satan and his progeny according to the scriptures.

I came to accept this story after many distorted anti islamic ones I read first, I realized after wards that it corresponded to Jesus as well and all the prophets before and after him, and whether or not he was the son of God, God himself the message was very simple and clear and it was to guide people back to the children of Abraham.

Bobbye

Sep 16, 2005, 08:37 AM

You have received great responses so I'll just add one item of correction:i.e.
Joseph was not the head of one of the tribes. His sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, were heads of the two half-tribes. Joseph never left Egypt until his bones were carried out with the Exodus some 400 years later.

Yes, Joseph was one of the sons of Jacob (Israel) but his position in Egypt -- comparable to "Prime Minister" -- (after being sold into slavery at 17 years of age by his brothers) declared him a "national hero," thus his burial in The Holy Land was prohibited at the time of his death. Some 400 years later the Hyksos kings (those not Egyptian who declared themselves rulers) had been replaced by Egyptians, and Joseph's fame was buried in the annals of Egyptian history -- which paved the way for his bones to be returned to his homeland.

Be blessed,
Bobbye

Morganite

Sep 16, 2005, 11:28 AM

You have received great responses so I'll just add one item of correction:i.e.,

Joseph was not the head of one of the tribes. His sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, were heads of the two half-tribes. Joseph never left Egypt until his bones were carried out with the Exodus some 400 years later.

You are quite correct, Bobby.

Did Joseph start as a tribal chieftan and then the two lads head up their own half-tribes? (What does a 'half'-tribe' look like?).

The story of the tribes of Israel, their origin, inheritances, divisions, rebellions, and final loss of their inheritances, is clearly recorded in the books of the Old Testament.

Jacob (a supplanter, in whose favor the law of primogenture was waived), whom the Lord named Israel (He who prevaiuls with God), had twelve sons, namely: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin, Gad, Asher, Dan, and Naphtali.

Each became the ancestor of a tribe in Israel and received patriarchal blessings as such when Jacob went down into Egypt (Gen.49).

Jacob also blessed the two sons of Joseph, Manasseh and Ephraim, and adopted them as his own sons, and they were blessed as founders of tribes in Israel.

The idea that these two sons of Joseph replaced Reuben and Simeon springs from the words of Jacob when he chose them for adoption, as recorded in Genesis Chapter 48, verse 5, as follows: "And now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee into Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine."

A careful reading will show the true meaning to be that they should be sons of Jacob just the same as Reuben and Simeon were, not that they were to replace them.

Then again some confusion has come because it is recorded in I Chronicles 5:1, that while Reuben was the firstborn, because of his transgression the birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph.

The matter of birthright, however, did not have anything to do with a place among the tribes of Israel, and Ephraim was not substituted as a tribe for Reuben.

The inclusion of the two half-tribes made the number of the tribes of Israel into twelve, because the Levites did not operate as a tribe, but were scattered among the remaioning tribes for sacerdotal purposes.

MORGANITE

:)

Morganite

Sep 16, 2005, 12:02 PM

well

i think allot of what you posted is bizare indeed

The kabbah is a idea, testimony Abraham founded.

Abraham took his son Ishmael (Gen not Isaac his 2nd son) as a sacrifice, offering it for ransom and God finally refused, this was to state that on the last day even your sons will not be accepted and some evil people will offer there sons as well as everything they have to avoid the hellfire.

The kabbah was and is a place of pilgrimage not worship, its not worshipped, and any one who believed in God at the time Mohammed was facing his own uncles tribe persecuting him helped mohammed fight them and remove the idols from the kabbah, simple as that.

Who ever did not help mohammed and new the scriptures where the hypocrites and liars for it was written clearly that Abraham is the founder of the one true God religion and a friend of God's., diverting into any other religions aka sects is again the worked of Satan and his progeny according to the scriptures.

i came to accept this story after many distorted anti islamic ones i read first, i realized after wards that it corresponded to Jesus as well and all the prophets before and after him, and wether or not he was the son of God, God himself the message was very simple and clear and it was to guide people back to the children of Abraham.

"And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar…and sent her away:…"

Then comes the supreme test, the sacrifice of Isaac (Genesis 22:2).

"Take now they son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest…and offer him there for a burnt offering."

Thus the Bible clearly identifies whioch of Abraham's son is the intended victim.

"There is a prevalent notion that the Arabs, both of the south and north, are descended from Ishmael; and the passage in Gen. xvi.12, "he (Ishmael) shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren."

This passage is often cited as if it were a prediction of that national independence which, upon the whole, the Arabs have maintained more than any other people.

But this supposition is founded on a misconception of the original Hebrew, which runs literally, "he shall before the faces of all his brethren," i.e. (according to the idiom above explained, in which "before the face" denotes the east), the habitation of his posterity shall be "to the east" of the settlements of Abraham’s’ other descendants.

These prophecies found their accomplishment in the fact of the sons of Ishmael being located, generally speaking to the east of the other descendants of Abraham, whether of Sara or of Ketuah. But the idea of the southern Arabs being of the posterity of Ishmael is entirely without foundation, and seems to have originated in the tradition invented by Arab vanity that they, as well as the Jews, are of the seed of Abraham--a vanity which, besides disfiguring and falsifying the whole history of the patriarch and his son Ishmael, has transferred the scene of it from Palestine to Mecca."
(McClintock and Strong, Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, (Vol. I:339)

Now, here is what we have, Two separate tradition that contradict each other in some details. On the basis of historical procession alone it seems most likely that the later version was made to claim superiority over the earlier version for purely theological advantage.

MORGANITE

:)

G4-450

Sep 16, 2005, 12:32 PM

Hi

You posted something interesting

I read in your other posts how you refer to the hebrews as the jews, if I may explain why I repeat that Abraham was not a jew and arabs do not believe or argue about anything between these contradictions but hold up what Jesus said which was there is one God and him you worship alone, and Abraham is the father of this faith.

Jesus also said that who ever submits to the will of God is his brother and his sisterMark.3 [35] For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother. this is to say that Abraham and his name should speak for itself is the Father of Faith in one true God, Faith been God's light which is the will and evidence to the keys of man's Good conscience or bad one which leaves him enslaved to his wrongdoing.

Aside from Jesus and back to Abraham, I find it interesting how if one does not speak semitic could be confused, Jesus Spoke Aramaic but the books where in greek, Aramaic is a semitic language, Hebrew also existed only in text and pre mature as a non spoken language, Abraham again did not speak either, he existed before there where jews and the only religion based on his foundation to the kabah is iSlam today, and yes, the nation of Judah fell and like Jesus said another nation will inherit Gods will,

I would say Islam been the other brother did based on faith and practice, but many racist theories clutter the truth about Abraham's covenant which has to do with faith like Jesus said, and not blood like Satan racist say,
And we already understand all mankind was created by the God of Abraham and we all have to keep our oaths to this covenant if we take it upon ourselves to inherit Gods blessings. so why all these race theories and blood claims to Jacob by some? they are all false.

If anyone tells you that the God of Judah did not create the other semitic speaking brothers known as arabs, ask them , what God created you that could not create others if you claim to the one true God who colors and fashions all living beings?
You see how the truth sheds it light there?

Bobbye

Sep 16, 2005, 03:41 PM

Morganite:

No, Joseph was never the head of a tribel. He was only 17 years old when sold into slavery (Egyptian slavery); was the right hand of the Pharaoh from 30 years of age until his death (never again lived in The Holy Land: never returned to The Promised Land until his bones were carried by the 3 million plus who left Egypt in the Exodus).

WHAT DOES A HALF TRIBE LOOK LIKE?

As any other tribe. However, it was counted only as "half" (one half to Manasseh and one half to Ephraim) when dividing the land into tribal territories -- after the Hebrews entered the Promised Land through Gilgal; then conquered Jericho under Joshua's command; then were defeated at little AI (until Achan and the "sin in the camp" was addressed); returned to Ai where they were victorious; then conquered Gibeon in the South (making an alliance with the Gibeonites, which God did not grant); then on to northern territories where they were victorious; AND, THEREAFTER, THE LAND WAS DIVIDED INTO TRIBAL TERRITORIES.

Be blessed in your insatiable desire for The Word!
Bobbye

Morganite

Sep 16, 2005, 04:30 PM

Hi

You posted something interesting

I read in your other posts how you refer to the hebrews as the jews, if i may explain why i repeat that Abraham was not a jew and arabs do not believe or argue about anything between these contradictions but hold up what Jesus said which was there is one God and him you worship alone, and Abraham is the father of this faith.,

Jesus also said that who ever submits to the will of God is his brother and his sisterMark.3 [35] For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother., this is to say that Abraham and his name should speak for itself is the Father of Faith in one true God, Faith been God's light which is the will and evidence to the keys of man's Good conscience or bad one which leaves him enslaved to his wrongdoing.

Aside from Jesus and back to Abraham, i find it interesting how if one does not speak semitic could be confused, Jesus Spoke Aramaic but the books where in greek, Aramaic is a semitic language, Hebrew also existed only in text and pre mature as a non spoken language, Abraham again did not speak either, he existed before there where jews and the only religion based on his foundation to the kabah is iSlam today, and yes, the nation of Judah fell and like Jesus said another nation will inherit Gods will,

i would say Islam been the other brother did based on faith and practice, but many racist theories clutter the truth about Abraham's covenant which has to do with faith like Jesus said, and not blood like Satan racist say,
And we already understand all mankind was created by the God of Abraham and we all have to keep our oaths to this covenant if we take it upon ourselves to inherit Gods blessings., so why all these race theories and blood claims to Jacob by some?, they are all false.

If anyone tells you that the God of Judah did not create the other semitic speaking brothers known as arabs, ask them , what God created you that could not create others if you claim to the one true God who colors and fashions all living beings?
You see how the truth sheds it light there?

You do not address a person. Is this post sent to me? If so:

I do not call Hebrews Jews, I call Jews Hebrews.

Abraham could not have been a Jew, because he could not have been one of the progeny of his own great grandson (Judah). I believe we agree on that.

What language did Abraham speak? It was either Hebrew or an early variation of it. On the antiquity of Hebrew, it was in Ras Shamra (ancient Ugarit), where C. Schaeffer beginning in 1929 brought forth thousands of tablets from a temple archive of the Canaanites going back to the 14th century b.c.

They are in a language closely related to Hebrew and contain many expressions and concepts that are close to those of the Old Testament, making it possible to solve many Bible mysteries and brightly illuminate certain phases of the early history of Israel. Thirty more boxes of tablets were excavated in 1960.

In Aegypt, at Serdabit al-Khadim, there were mines of the Pharaohs where people from Palestine were employed around 1500 b.c. and where they left some thirty rock inscriptions behind. These were discovered by Petrie in 1905, with important additions in 1948.

They are written with Egyptian symbols but in Canaanitish dialect which has been identified as proto-Hebrew.

They show the early Egyptianizing of the Semites and indicate much closer ties between the cultures of Egypt and Israel than have heretofore been conceded.

It was the Ras Shamra texts more than anything else which showed that the Old Testament must be studied in an ever larger context to be properly understood. "The Bible strikes root into every ancient Near-Eastern culture, and it cannot be historically understood until we can see its relationship to its sources in true perspective," according to Professor Albright.

"One hundred years ago," writes A. Parrot, "in Mesopotamia it was discovered that history lies behind the Old Testament. Today . . . the Old Testament itself is being discovered," to wit, in the Ras Shamra documents, in the Mari Tablets (a huge collection of tablets discovered on the upper Euphrates by Parrot himself), and in the Nuzi Tablets, vast private archives which "make frequent mention of the Habiri," {Hebrews] and the Dawidum, and even tell of the use of fire-signals by the Benjaminites as described in the Old Testament.

The beginnings of Israel are rooted in a highly cultural Canaan, where we now know Mesopotamians, Egyptians, and branches of the Indo-Europeans had converged and blended. Hence the notion that early Israelite religion and society were primitive is completely false.

About the Patriarch Joseph. "Most scholars," writes Tha'labi, "say that Joseph is a Hebrew name . . . and Abu-l-Hasan . . . said that asaf is `sorrow' in that language, and that asif is `servant,' and that the two are combined in the name of Joseph."

The identification of Joseph with Asaf is an authentic Hebrew tradition. Adam in a vision (this is Tha'labi again) "saw Joseph sitting in all his glory, and cried out, `Who is that noble one sitting in such an exalted degree of glory?' And Gabriel answered, `O Adam, that is thy son, the envied one. . . . '

Then Adam clasped him to his bosom and his heart and said, O my son, do not sorrow (asaf), for thou art Joseph.Thus he first gave him his name."

The writer is puzzled by the preexistent situation and explains that "Joseph knew it all in the beginning in the preeminence of his intelligence, and he was instructed in the matter (of his future trials on earth) even as it would be, and he saw that he would be so and so before he was. But that is a thing that only God understands--how, for example, Adam knew all (his children's) names beforehand."

The mystery of Joseph appears in Benjamin's admonition to his children in The Twelve Patriarchs: "Follow the example of the holy and good man Joseph. For until death he was not willing to tell regarding himself; but Jacob, having learned it from the Lord, told it to him [Benjamin]."

In the Dead Sea Scrolls the famous Teacher of Righteousness is also called Asaph, that being, as we have seen, another name for Joseph, which, as H.J. Schonfield observes, "thus fits in with the Joseph traditions."

Jacob blessed Joseph according to Benjamin's Testament, saying, "In thee shall be fulfilled the prophecies of heaven, which say that the blameless one shall be defiled for lawless men, and the sinless one shall die for godless men."

According to the Testament of Zebulon, Joseph's three days in the cistern were the type of the descent of the Lord made to the spirits in prison. One can readily see how the Joseph type would be applied to any suffering servant, though the Messiah remains the archetype.

Indeed, the Christian fathers were fond of working out elaborate parallels between Joseph and Jesus.

The Teacher of Righteousness was also called the Chosen One, Asaph, the Son of Berechiah, Joseph the Just, and Joseph ben Joezer, so that his given name probably was Joseph and he "appears to us as a composite figure," just as his wicked opponent does.

The Joseph tradition has been traced backwards as well as forwards, and Bo Reicke has found significant parallels in the Ras Shamra fragments of the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries b.c.

Interesting?

MORGANITE

:)

G4-450

Sep 16, 2005, 10:05 PM

You keep calling it the old testament, it's the TORAH.
When we call it the old testament we are testifyinh that we see it from a new testoment view, which again is not abrahamic.

I know that I also referred to the torah ( first five books that moses recieved) as the old testament, and I did it because many DO NOT KNOW the Troah is in the bible, but the closest language to it is ARABIC.

Arabic spoken has all the dialects within the semitic tones as for example Aramaic (greek Arabic) and other spoken semitic languages wich most of thee people in the Mid East knew then are now muslim, and lets not forget the magnolians who conquiered Islam and learned arabic who also converted as muslims again because they realized that these so called Bible mysteries you speak off where not any more.

Hebrew may I repeate again was never spoken until 1945, when Israel became the silent U.S. state.

The BIG LIE is when a person who calls himself Jewish does not correct another person when he or she is confused about the authenticy of Judaism existing BEFORE Moses who received the books about Adam, Noa and Abraham who did not speak Hebrew and where not also Jewish, in-fact the children of Israel did not exist until Moses divided them into tribes again with guidance from God. I call this a Big Lie, because Lying is all Judaism today is about if they do not practice there faith based on Abraham.

On a recent BBC article, they showed a traditional Jewish wedding, the groom was wearing a scull cap, white and exactly like muslims.

Muslims dress the way Jesus and the children of Abraham dressed, remember God as much as they can as Jesus told people to do, pray with all there might like Jesus told people to do, and keep all the commandments in the Torah (TENAK) like jesus told people to do as well as fight in God's way as Jesus told people to do and as well as love others the way they wanted to be loved as Jesus also told people to do,

Now the Media says terrorists attacked the WTC, a religious thing and all, I say it had to do with Israel's occupation and murdering of innocent people in a silent background, so yes religious and political, innocent blood on one side continued because the american people did not know about it since the media is pro jewish. by the way of what happened opened the story and we all are realizing now that the U.S. government controls the information we know.

My point is that its backwards and distorted to see Jewish history pre dating King David and his son Solomon, after Solomon the tribe of Judah took over all the tribes of Israel, oppressed and forced people to convert to there religion, not Abraham's, while today we THINK judaism is abrahamic it actually is in no way relevant to the Torah since Ultra Orthodox jews claim that the talmud is HOLIER THEN THE BIBLE all together.

Morganite

Sep 17, 2005, 10:26 AM

You keep calling it the old testament, its the TORAH. when we call it the old testament we are testifying that we see it from a new testament view, which again is not Abrahamic.

You do not address any person in particular so you might not mean me,

BUT! The Torah is NOT the OLD TESTAMENT, The Torah is NOT the HEBREW SCRIPTURES.

The Torah is a PART of the collectuion of books known as the Old Testament, or the Hebrew Scripturesr.

The Torah is Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, also known as the Pentateuch, or "Five books." (because there are five separate books in it).

Testamaent means "Covenant," and refers to the covenant God made with Israel under the hand of Moses, and not to the individual covenants he made with Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, each separately, With Israel, God put the whole federation of tribes under Covenant (Testament) under Moses as Leader-prophet-administrator.

i know that i also refered to the torah ( first five books that moses recieved) as the old testament, and i did it becuase many DO NOT KNOW the Troah is in the bible, but the closest language to it is ARABIC.

Well, my friend, if you can refer to it that way, then you must not prevent me from having the same freedom. Is that just? Anyway, you know what I mean - I hope!

Arabic spoken has all the dialects withing the semitic tones as for example Aramaic (greek Arabic) and other spoken semitic languages wich most of thee people in the Mid East knew then are now muslim, and lets not forget the magnolians who conquiered Islam and learned arabic who also converted as muslims again becuase they realized that these so called Bible mysteries you speak off where not any more.

I have not spoken of "Bible mysteries."

Hebrew may i repeate again was never spoken until 1945, when Israel became the silent U.S. state.

"Hebrew was NEVER spoken"? You might not know it and you might not believe it, but it was.

The BIG LIE is when a person who calls himself Jewish does not correct another person when he or she is confused about the authenticy of Judaism existing BEFORE Moses who received the books about Adam, Noa and Abraham who did not speak Hebrew and where not also Jewish, in-fact the children of Israel did not exist until Moses divided them into tribes again with guidance from God., i call this a Big Lie, because Lying is all Judaism today is about if they do not practice there faith based on Abraham.

Judaism, was not the religion of the Patriarchs. Judaism is the attenutated form of Israelitish Cult Religion, centred on the Temple as an amphyicony.

It became Proto-Judaism during the Babylonian Captivity, when temple worship was not available to the Judahites. The dinner tabler became the replacement for the temple, and the forms of worship described in Moses' Leviticus were replaced by symbols instead of the full ritual.

Before Moses, Patriarchal religion worshipped 'yod-hey-vav-hey' and kings paid tithing and tribute to Abraham as if to God.

After the exodus from Egypt, the building of the temples (there were more than one) that replaced the portable tent-temple, life and worship was focused on the temple.

The captives, unable to continue that life and servive, adapted their religion and its rituals to what they could do, and thus we see the change from Israelitish amphyiotcony ot the stirrings of what, later, Would be called Judaism,

Nothing could be called Judaism in the time of Adam, Abrham, Isaac, or Jacob, because Judah, after whom it is named, was not then born.

On a recent BBC article, they showed a traditional Jewish wedding, the groom was wearing a scull cap, white and exactly like muslims

Jews had been covering their heads with yamlukes for more than a thousand years before the founding of Islam in 600 AD (CE) Turks called such hats 'rain' wear,' and their origin is lost in antiquity. The yamulke is a skullcap worn especially by Orthodox and Conservative Jewish males in the synagogue and the home. Itr is said to remind Jews that no one is above a Jew except God.

Muslims dress the way Jesus and the children of Abraham dressed, remember God as much as they can as Jesus told people to do, pray with all there might like Jesus told people to do, and keep all the commandments in the Torah (TENAK) like jesus told people to do as well as fight in God's way as Jesus told people to do and as well as love others the way they wanted to be loved as Jesus also told people to do,

Non-Muslim Arabs dress the same way, because it is sensible in hot countries. I dwell in the desert and it would be sensible here, but I wear loose clothing rather than the burnoose, whi8ch is an Arabn garment, rather than a Muslim garb. It is a little disingenous to claim that everything in the old world is Islamic.

Now the Media says terrorists attacked the WTC, a religious thing and all, i say it had to do with Israel's occupation and murdering of innocent people in a silent background, so yes religious and political, innocent blood on one side continued because the american people did not know about it since the media is pro jewish., by the way of what happened opened the story and we all are realizing now that the the U.S. government controls the information we know.

We can all pick holes in what the media says about this and that. It hardly ever agrees with itself over the same point. However, I have never seen the Terrorist attack on WTC attributed to any religious cause. Osama Bin Laden is not a religious lkeader, he does not represent Islam. He is a terrorist, a murderer, and is under God's fatwah for murdering inncent people. He might come from a Muslim fmaily, but he does not act in accordance with Islamic teaching, or Jewish, or Christian teaching when he turns his hand to cold blooded slaughter of the innocent.

If he sees himself as a soldier with a cause worth fighting for, then let him meet his enemy on the battlefield. No warrior creeps around in the dark like a thief, rapist, burglar, or murderer. Warriors stand tall and face their enenies head on, face-to-face.

Bin Laden is noit a warrior. He is a disgrace, and an enemy to God.

My point is that its backwards and distorted to see Jewish history pre dating King David and his son Solomon, after Solomon the tribe of Judah took over all the tribes of Israel, oppressed and forced people to convert to there religion, not Abraham's, while today we THINK judaism is abrahamic it actually is in no way relevant to the Torah since Ultra Orthodox jews claim that the talmud is HOLIER THEN THE BIBLE all together

Of course Jewish history cannot pre-date Judah. That is chronologically impossible, but it seems contrary to the argument you make earlier in your post.

As for Solomon and the House of Judah 'taking over' the rest ofd the tribes and forcing them to convert to Judaism, that sounds very much like the tactics that Mohammed would later use to effect the spread of Islam. However, that does not square with actual history.

The Kingdom of Israel (Northern Kingdom) was never subjugated by Judah. It was subjugated by Tiglath-Pileser III of Assyria around 720 BC.

Fictionalised history makes your position untenable. If someone cannot tell the truth about history, evensomeone else's, can we relied on anything else they say?

You obviously have sources for the things you write, but I have to suggest that they might not be as reliable as you think. History that is re-written to suit someone's particular point of view is called ":Revisionist History," and is considered blatantly dishonest.

Again, I admire your persistence, and also appreciate the problems you have with the sources on which you rely.

MORGANITE

:)

Morganite

Sep 17, 2005, 10:34 AM

G4-450

Sep 17, 2005, 03:03 PM

You wrote:

"Now the Media says terrorists attacked the WTC, a religious thing and all, i say it had to do with Israel's occupation and murdering of innocent people in a silent background, so yes religious and political, innocent blood on one side continued because the american people did not know about it since the media is pro jewish., by the way of what happened opened the story and we all are realizing now that the the U.S. government controls the information we know".

It is understood that the USA's preference for Israel in the face of the deprivation that Palestinians have to face, is a cause of concern.

But if, as you say, that was the reason for OBL bombing the WTC, etc., isn't there something basically wrong with OBL's thinking?

If Osama bin Laden (OBL) is angry with Israel for subjugating the Palestinians, etc., why didn't OBL attack Israel? Why not attack the root cause rather than a supporter?

Can you explain that?

MORGANITE

:)

Well, I think we can agree that the CIA's Job has always been to murder for political reasons, know the facts the Bush runs the CIA while his son is president and that OBL is also a agent says something stinks does it not?

As far as Osama Ben Laden and how he thinks goes; I have yet to of witnessed anything that he has said to be a lie, and let me tell you why I can say this, I worked for Dan Rather at wcbs NYC and he had spoken to him personally; Osama's own thinking is scary to allot of us people because everything he said is dead on and true:

1- His (OBL) CIA devision was formerly known s the freedom fighters now called the base.

2- Israel had prior knowledge of 911 as well as France and Germany, there intelligence people claim Bush was behind it, WCBS got heat about saying anything in regards to this because a war was on the table prior to Iraq already. and a war means they controlled the press too.

3-What Osama said about 9/11 was that he himself did not carry out 9/11, and the people that did where brave, they where all CIA agents too, this is public and nothing new.

4- What he said about the U.S. and Israel was also dead on, much of the CIA does not like it that Israel controls the federal united states both in law and reserve, and this brings up the fact that they are Jewish Pro (NOT ISRAELI PRO) and that in Israel you have to be Jewish to be a citizen. not much of a democracy.

5- also Israel has committed many crimes against humanity, the killing of arabs and sing the Talmud to justify it over land like claiming that a Jew's finger nail is worth the lives of 1000 gentiles is very racist.

6-OBL, a sheek from Saudi Arabia with a income of 5 billion a year divided by 20 brothers is somewhere in the U.S. for all we know.

I see that his thinking is biblical; Jihad in the bible is not different fro, the koran, I have yet to find anything new about the God of the bible to the God of the Koran, and it states that the laws stay the same for muslims who are jewish and christian as is should have in the bible, just that they should pray 5 times a day and fast once a year during daylight hours.

But aside from the broadcast center at wcbs and the fact that 9/11, iraq and other disaster, I myself is against all violence, especially the under-minding deaths of innocent civilians in countries like Afghanistan where 10,000 kids where murdered by the U.S. where many do not have weapons of mass destruction like the U.S. who has used them there for 20 years prior to 9/11 and after the iraq invasion claiming iraqis have been doing it like the U.S. did during vietnam.

But if you have to get up and fight; fight against all those who want war, remove there weapons from them and take there guns, anyone who has them whether they are FBI or talibans will commit a crime one way or another; that is what they are for.

So again

Israel has Nuclear weapons and is a threat to world peace from what Ultra Jews claim, its like I can say this website is mine because God gave it to me. they are saying that land is there's for this and lost it a long time ago for that.

Read this and tell me what you think...
http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/3289/

Morganite

Sep 17, 2005, 03:36 PM

Well, i think we can agree that the CIA's Job has always been to murder for political reasons, know the facts the Bush runs the CIA while his son is president and that OBL is also a agent says something stinks does it not?

As far as Osama Ben Laden and how he thinks goes; i have yet to of witnessed anything that he has said to be a lie, and let me tell you why i can say this, i worked for Dan Rather at wcbs NYC and he had spoken to him personally; Osama's own thinking is scary to allot of us people because everything he said is dead on and true:

1- His (OBL) CIA devision was formerly known s the freedom fighters now called the base.

2- Israel had prior knowledge of 911 as well as France and Germany, there intelligence people claim Bush was behind it, WCBS got heat about saying anything in regards to this because a war was on the table prior to Iraq already., and a war means they controlled the press too.

3-What Osama said about 9/11 was that he himself did not carry out 9/11, and the people that did where brave, they where all CIA agents too, this is public and nothing new.

4- What he said about the U.S. and Israel was also dead on, much of the CIA does not like it that Israel controls the federal united states both in law and reserve, and this brings up the fact that they are Jewish Pro (NOT ISRAELI PRO) and that in Israel you have to be Jewish to be a citizen., not much of a democracy.

5- also Israel has committed many crimes against humanity, the killing of arabs and sing the Talmud to justify it over land like claiming that a Jew's finger nail is worth the lives of 1000 gentiles is very racist.

6-OBL, a sheek from Saudi Arabia with a income of 5 billion a year divided by 20 brothers is somewhere in the U.S. for all we know.

I see that his thinking is biblical; Jihad in the bible is not different fro, the koran, i have yet to find anything new about the God of the bible to the God of the Koran, and it states that the laws stay the same for muslims who are jewish and christian as is should of in the bible, just that they should pray 5 times a day and fast once a year during daylight hours.

But aside from the broadcast center at wcbs and the fact that 9/11, iraq and other disaster, i myself is against all violence, especially the under-minding deaths of innocent civilians in countries like Afghanistan where 10,000 kids where murdered by the U.S. where many do not have weapons of mass destruction like the U.S. who has used them there for 20 years prior to 9/11 and after the iraq invasion claiming iraqis have been doing it like the U.S. did during vietnam.

But if you have to get up and fight; fight against all those who want war, remove there weapons from them and take there guns, anyone who has them wether they are FBI or talibans will commit a crime one way or another; that is what they are for.

So again

Israel has Nuclear weapons and is a threat to world peace from what Ultra Jews claim, its like i can say this website is mine becuase God gave it to me., they are saying that land is theres for this and lost it a long time ago for that.

read this and tell me what you think...
http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/3289/

Life would be a lot simpler if we didn't keep moving the grounds of the argument and hold back introducing new subjects.

Can we agree to complete one subject before shifting to another?

Out of kindness, I will presume that what you have posted about the CIA flying the planes into the WTC and Pentagon was meant to be posted on the Humour section?

(OBL's) thinking is biblical; Jihad in the bible is not different fro, the koran, i have yet to find anything new about the God of the bible to the God of the Koran,

Jihad is not sanctioned in the Bible. In the Book of the Law of God, it is written:

Leviticus 19:18

Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

MORGANITE

:confused:

G4-450

Sep 17, 2005, 04:45 PM

The bible has thousands of books missing which belonged in it, who chose them and why is a agenda you have to divide truth from idoltery and abuse for man made lusts.

Osama was a CIA agent, have you been swallowing Jewish Pro media, he is not wanted for 9/11 and this post has everything to do with the subject?

9/11 was not a ATTACK but a retaliation of what the U.S. Government did NOT TELL US they where doing to innocent people in other countries for oil.
And all the U.S. had to show for 9/11 was to get to iraq and then Iran.

Only a bad liar ultra orthodox Jew would deny these facts above, many true to Abraham jews and non jew israelis have suffered from U.S. interests in the middle east and Zionism.

Osama ben Laden is NOT WANTED FOR 9/11, if he is wanted then you should also put a warrant out on Satan for the crimes against humanity for Israel and other Zionists racist or fascist countries. it would be a joke for you to deny this one.

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

When you speak about terrorism you should look at the number one threats to world peace,

USA
Israel
Then the list goes on,

Arabs and or muslims are NOT terrosists, and the very few who qualify have succeeded to only kill 1/5th of the number of people the U.S. has since drop of the nuclear bomb in Japan. beside the fact that the U.S. is pre occupied with so much racism that Hitler would not of existed with his biggest supporters in the Mid West during his rulling.

If your telling me that you actually believe the new stories rather then looking at the past in history I am only convinced that this will not end if otehrs think like you, you're a threat to peace yourself to forget the evil behind U.S. corporate wars.

While many people say they are against the war in iraq they lied, they are in a war with iraq, there passports and citizenships state that they bare arms to fight for the country that invaded iraq just like the nazis invaded poland, so tey are in the same place these Germans where once who you can ask today what they did while people where getting murdered in POLAND when it was invaded.

So this subject reflect Islam and Judaism
Judaism has roots today in satanism more then the Torah, read the talmud, the book claimed to be holier then the Bible, which also is missing thousands of books.

By the way, Jesus ADVOCATE TERRORISM! and he did it against those who advocated mischief against innocent people.

"I say to you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.* As for my enemies who do not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence" (Luke 19:26-27).

"Do not think that I have come to send peace on Earth.* I did not come to send peace, but a sword.* I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" (Matthew 10:34-35).
These sort of lines match the same ones other prophets had spoken of, as well as his miracles, like raising of the dead in Ezekle.
Jesus did not ever want to claim to fame or said he was the son of God, otehrs did and there where no witnesses there, and above this fact in greek he was son like all sons of God who where the Children of Israel as in David, the son of God, Solomon, the son of God and so one before and after

You did not tell me what you thought about the crimes Israel has committed against Humanity, they are on the top of the list around the world today while the U.S. may be exposed for the support of bombing Iraqi people today themselves while claiming its others.

Morganite

Sep 17, 2005, 07:20 PM

The bible has thousands of books missing which belonged in it, who chose them and why is a agenda you have to devide truth from idoltery and abuse for man made lusts.

Osama was a CIA agent, have you been swallowing Jewish Pro media, he is not wanted for 9/11 and this post has everything to do with the subject?

9/11 was not a ATTACK but a retaliation of what the U.S. Government did NOT TELL US they where doing to innocent people in other countries for oil.
And all the U.S. had to show for 9/11 was to get to iraq and then Iran.

Only a bad liar ultra orthodox Jew would deny these facts above, many true to Abraham jews and non jew israelis have suffered from U.S. interests in the middle east and Zionism.

Osama ben Laden is NOT WANTED FOR 9/11, if he is wanted then you should also put a warrant out on Satan for the crimes against humanity for Israel and other Zionists racist or fascist countries., it would be a joke for you to deny this one.

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

When you speak about terrorism you should look at the number one threats to world peace,

USA
Israel
Then the list goes on,

Arabs and or muslims are NOT terrosists, and the very few who qualify have succeeded to only kill 1/5th of the number of people the U.S. has since drop of the nuclear bomb in Japan., beside the fact that the U.S. is pre occupied with so much racism that Hitler would not of existed with his biggest supporters in the Mid West during his rulling.

If your telling me that you actualy believe the new stories rather then looking at the past in history i am only convinced that this will not end if otehrs think like you, your a threat to peace yourself to forget the evil behind U.S. corporate wars.

while many people say they are against the war in iraq they lied, they are in a war with iraq, there passports and citizenships state that they bare arms to fight for the country that invaded iraq just like the nazis invaded poland, so tey are in the same place these Germans where once who you can ask today what they did while people where getting murdered in POLAND when it was invaded.

So this subject reflect Islam and Judaism
Judaism has roots today in satanism more then the Torah, read the talmud, the book claimed to be holier then the Bible, which also is missing thousands of books.

By the way, Jesus ADVOCATE TERRORISM!, and he did it against those who advocated mischief against innocent people.

"I say to you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.* As for my enemies who do not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence" (Luke 19:26-27).

"Do not think that I have come to send peace on Earth.* I did not come to send peace, but a sword.* I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" (Matthew 10:34-35).
These sort of lines match the same ones otehr prophets had spoken of, as well as his miracles, like raising of the dead in Ezekle.
Jesus did not ever want to claim to fame or said he was the son of God, otehrs did and there where no witnesses there, and above this fact in greek he was son like all sons of God who where the Children of Israel as in David, the son of God, Solomon, the son of God and so one before and after

You did not tell me what you thought about the crimes Israel has committed against Humanity, they are on the top of the list around the world today while the U.S. may be exposed for the support of bombing Iraqi people today themselves while claiming its others.

Sir,

You have an extremely irritating penchant for believing that you can read my mind and that you know what I think and what I believe and who I believe and why. You are invariablty wrong.

Please, either respond in a proper manner or else I will loose my dogs on you.

You have gone off subject again, and that prompts me to conclude that you arte incapable of staying on one subject because you have only a superficial knowledge and need to keep flitting from one item to the next to raise sturm und drang.

You have impeached my character and falsely accused me of holding positions that I do not hold. I have heretofore been very patient with you, allowing for your confusion, but you have refused to be a gentleman and insist on continuing your personal attacks on me.

You must never do so again. If you do I shall issue a universal fatwah on your head.

Inta maknun!

MORGANITE

:mad:

G4-450

Sep 17, 2005, 09:34 PM

I am sorry if I exposed the dirty truth about Ultra Orthodox Judaism here. did I hurt your feelings? :p

Why don't you calm down and read to learn what is really going on here and now instead of lies about Judaism existing before Judah did and using the Jesus Jew theories on others with cheap Philosophical standards.

The truth does not need a man to prove he can present it anyway or form if it is in fact the truth and not his own words.

AND STOP PRETENDING THIS IS NOT THE SUBJECT, get over it Morganstien, you BS about Jews does not match the talmud or the fact tat there are good people who are Jewish and against Oppression evidently in these Books. And why would you not want the truth about Islam and Judaism here?

Judaism is about oppressing the nations and there Kings, making them serve you under your feet, all gentiles are vermin according the Talmud and should be spat on, Osama Ben Laden is NOT wanted for 9/11 and you're the one who used 9/11 like the media has been in favor of Bush and his crony war to divert the truth by claiming Osama's so called "thinking" as you put it is wrong when in actuality it matches every investigation ever conducted by the associated press which Jewish media will not tell you, you who they consider STUPID from the start for been a gentile and not worthy of living.

So get over your silly Ego, you do not need to be a genius to know that Judaism did not exist before the tribe of Judah which came after Moses, and you also do not need to be a Genius to know that Christianity existed before Jesus and some used these with Indo European concepts to break away from Judaic rulers aka Scribes who where NOT SEMITIC and Oppressed other Israelis.

And another thing which destroys all yourself righteous agenda here Mr.-Philosopher from hell, you do not need to study anything to know tat Greek is not a Semitic language and Saul a jew changed his name to Paul after persecuting Christians before putting the Gospels together and saying he did not know who some of the authors where, especially playing dumb about Barnabis and his no crucifixion story.

So this subject been Judaism and Islam proves that Abraham paved the foundation of faith not so called blood lines some genetic freaks in Germany liked to believe while other fans of there who run the U.S. practice with the so called new world order to ethnically cleanse the world.

So the only problem I see with my posts is that your philosophy is built on falsehood and can not be backed by all the garbage of Ultra Orthodox Judaic mal practice.

Morganite

Sep 18, 2005, 05:44 PM

When I first read your initial post in this thread I was encouraged. I htought that here was a reasonable person who wanted decent discussion at a sensible level.

Peace and love to everyone

I want to understand the difference between Islam and Judaism, there roots between the children of Abraham, who is the founder of all 3 faiths (Judaism, Chriostianity and Islam) to one God Almighty, and the Ka'Baa..

Can someone explain what Isaac and Jacob have to do with these roots since they both are the children of the same Father, Abraham and about the Ka'Baah,
and yes, Peace again to all.

But my hope was dashed by your subsequent replies to answers that I and others have made. You show yourself to be highly intolerant of any idea that you do not embrace, and extremely rude in expressing your intolerance.

You smiled like a baby, but you bit like a crocodile. I no longer trust you, and do notfeel any benefit will come from arguing with you because your mind is not open, and all your postings come from unacknowledged sources that are hostile to Judaism and to Chrisitianity, and to nonmuslim humanity in general.

Mahomet and good Musselmen blush with shame at your terrorism.

MORGANITE

:eek:

Morganite

Sep 18, 2005, 06:04 PM

G4-450

Your ignorance is staggering. It is exceeded only by your inability to read what is written.

In your hatred you invent things that you thinkl I have said and then rail against them. When you get to a better school you will learn how to think better.

For your information, I am not Jewish, neither am I a Jew. My only interest is is in truth.

Truth is not what you and other insane terrorists spew out: truth is what actually is.

Truth is not what you think - iIt is what really is.

Truth is not what you have been made to believe by your etremist militant apostate mullahs - it is what is real.

Your presence here under the banner of "Love and Peace" is a falsehood, because you have no Love in you and your mouth does not speak Peace.

You have been unmasked for the ignorant terrorist that you are, and your lies are revealed. Liars are servants of the Satan, and the Satan is your father because you hate Allah and his truth is not found between your lips.

You are an apostate who has turned you back on Allah, Mahomet, and Al Qur'an.

Because of your hat, you will never m,arry. If you do, you will have only th eugliest of wives and she and your unfortunate children will despise you because you have no integrity and no honesty.

You will never get a decent job, and your friends will leave you, unless they are insane.

This is the future you choose for yourself, because you do not know God.

The Koran is saying to humans, this is the final guidance from your Creator, for the specific purpose of worshipping him and creating a civil society where you can live in peace with one another.

Muslims around the world rely on the Koran for guidance. Devout followers heed the call to prayer five times each day and recite passages from the holy book. Muslims believe that the Koran is God's unfiltered message—teaching them how to lead a good life and become a better, more moral person.

The Koran is very specific with regard to the nature of human struggle, because in order for a human to be at peace with himself, they must control their baser instincts.

The quest to control base instincts such as greed, lust, and cruelty and to seek spiritual purity is known by Muslims as the "great jihad." Featured widely in the Koran, the "great jihad" is a person's most important "internal" struggle.

Chapter 3, verse 172, of the Koran: "Of those who answered the call of Allah and the messenger, even after being wounded, those who do right and refrain from wrong have a great reward."

But also in the holy scripture is a reference to "lower jihad," a more earthly and physical—and controversial—struggle. "To those against whom war is made, permission is given [to fight] because they are wronged; and verily, God is most powerful for their ai. "

This verse speaks of combat or war to be waged against one's oppressors—a struggle sanctioned by God.

But the Koran also states in Chapter 2, Verse 190: "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors."

The essence of the verse, is to fight back "if you are attacked by your persecutors, but don't fight back indiscriminately. Follow the rules of engagement."

According to mainstream Muslim clerics, those "rules of engagement"' are explicit: women, children, and innocent civilians are off limits.

Muslims believe the prophet Mohammed received these revelations directly from God some 1400 years ago, at a time when he and other Muslims were being driven from their homes, persecuted, and killed.

But although the Koran advocates self-defense, its most prevalent message is one of peace and brotherly love.

If people are intent on using religion to motivate terror or violence, they'll find an excuse there no matter what the actual text says, just as you have done.

Whenever you kneel towards Al Mukkah to pray to Allah, my words will ring in your head, and you will be unable to pray because your mind will stand still and your lips will be sealed until you have cleaned the filth and hate from your heart.

MORGANITE

:eek:

G4-450

Sep 18, 2005, 09:55 PM

You know

I did not read all your poetry this time, why all the rhetoric to avoid the questions about Judaism's role as satanists these days?
Judaism that is built on a RACIST TALMUD and claims that it is holier then the torah certainly is not speaking about the same one true God who created all mankind is it? it advocates a threat to world peace and makes Hitler look like a illiterate orthodox Jew.

Both Bible and koran have the same God Of abraham, but the problem that keeps repeating is that ego maniacs like you seek to abuse information for self gratificication or self proclaimed wisdom which again you should give thanks to God for the faculty of seen, hearing and thinking, but I guess your not doing this are you?

So lets get something straight here, Judaism as a nation fell with DISGRACE... htey usede lies, people and took religion for themselves when God chose them to be examples of people who are guided by his faith, his light, and now its over, period..

Jesus called them devils and the lost tribe of Israel was Judah, his disciples also named after every tribe of the children of Israel to restore them demonstrated Judas of Judah as a hypocrite and liar and traitor because that is exactly what Jesus said they did to the God of Abraham and all mankind by claiming racial inventions and that Gods door is only open to Jews by blood lines.

You keep trying to claim others are been wolfs under a sheep skin, well look at Israel and ultra orthodox jews and there religious fanatiscm and ask yourself why its always a denial game when they are asked why that have to have a secret from the non jew gentiles, or that they prefer Sigman Fried's books for manipulation tactics rather then God's word?. and they refuse invoke the god which Abraham, Moses and Jesus all advocated people to do when they know God told all who have faith to call on him for he is the disposer of all our affairs, all accept the evil doers. or did this become clear ot you by now why they do not call on God openly?

Who is God's new chosen nations today?
I watched the other day how Mosques where so packed with people, that they prayed on the sidewalk on there faces while a synagog these days gets visits only once a year by polytheists who claim they are believers in God, and I met people who say it is not easy converting to Judaism and also after all the trials by men it's a pretty expensive blood ritual as well but for which God is al this?

So maybe you should be more humble if you want to UNDERSTAND others, and drop your ego and lower your tone instead of been protective of the very things your trheatened by, and by the way TERRORISM is only felt by evil people who fear there fate is in the hands of others, and we know who really has those weapons and believes this in the white house.

But your never going to find salvation if you believe in a God who you think created certain people rather then all living creatures, especially if your claiming to be above God with a Talmud.

The Secret Book of Joshua
by Rabbi Jacob Y. Berman
(English Translation by Rabbi Jacob Y. Berman, 1901)

Chapter 1
1. These are the words spoken by Joshua to all of Israel while in the land of Shechem five years before his death.

2. Before Joshua's final days he gathered all into the public square and gave these final laws for all of Israel to follow and obey.

3. While on the highest most place Joshua spoke thus, "O, Israel, our LORD G-d has delivered us from the wilderness and gave us victory over our enemies and gave us the Promised Land! In addition to the Torah (Law) G-d has given us futher commandments which to follow."

4. "When entering the lands of the Gentiles do not follow their ways, for G-d has given you your own laws and customs to follow and the ways and customs of the Gentiles are wicked and perverse."

5. "While in the lands of the Gentiles take powerful and influental postitions in their kingdoms so you can destroy them from the inside and destroy their culture.

6. After their culture has become corrupt seize all their mighty weapons and slaughter all in the land.

7. Raze their buildings and homes and allow none of their beasts to live because they commit (sexual) perversion with them (the beasts.)"

Chapter 2
1. "When in the land of the Gentiles it is permissable to terminate the life of one if no one will catch you.

2. Just as Moses killed the wicked Egyptian that attacked an Israelite so shall you kill the wicked Gentiles in their own land."

3. "Pretent to be friends with the Gentile so you can get to know his secrets, for they (the secrets) will be powerful weapons against the Gentile."

4. "Mixing with Gentiles is prohibited, for a mixed offspring will be half demon and

5. the offspring of the Gentiles are wicked demons that want to destroy the Israelites and take away our Promised Land."

6. "Gentile girls are all wicked harlots that will seduce man and beast, stay way from them because they shall corrupt those who follow the LORD."

7. "Gentile boys are always aroused like a (male) dog seeking a female dog. The Gentile boy shall take pleasure in touching Israelite women and girls.

8. Stay away from them (Gentile boys) because they shall rape and grope our girls and women if they catch them unguarded."

9. "Gentile adults are like beasts in a continuous heat, they copulate out in the open and defile themselves and their homes."

10. "Do not enter a house of a Gentile for it is a house of whoredom and uncleaniness."

Chapter 3
1. These were the commandments given to Joshua by our LORD G-d, may we follow them and not faulter. G-d shall deliver all the Gentiles' lands into our hands and we shall destroy them and their beasts and children.

2. The wicked shall perish and the world shall be ours. We our a powerful people because we are G-d's people.

AMEN!

I know your dirty jewish secret Morganstine :), you're a racist Islamphobe who can not accept the true Semitic God both for the children of Israel and Islam and which advocated self defense against tyrants like Bush and his oil cronies who cuase nothing but death and have been getting away with it for a long time to get what they are after $$$$$. But you doing this is just simply zionist jewish again,
I have encountered jews lying online as much as fasciest nazis who claim they are not what they are about, I see very little differences in there tactics and nothing like this with Muslims who usually hide nothing, so I would like you to prove that they do such things like this at all.

From reading your posts you're the hater around here so far, you have the ulterior motive to do te very same things I mentioned above, SO WHY DON'T YOU READ AND LEARN THE TRUTH NOT LIES, THE GOD OF ABRAHAM KNOWS ALL YOUR DIRTY SECRETS AND HELL IS A PLACE YOU WILL FIND IN ALL SCRIPTURES FOR THOSE WHO DO EVIL THINGS KNOWING THIS.

One more thing I just thought of since you mentioned that retaliation by other people against a country that has been silencing information of there illegal activities like the U.S. has been doing since WW2 and you ignorantly rave about Osama Ben Laden attacking 9/11 like all the other jokers who deep throat Jewish Propaganda when OBL was on the other side of the planet when it took place.

My last question ( and I am sure you will not answer it like the others) is;
If Osama Ben Laden was telling us something that the U.S. was not, and he did indeed attack WTC in retaliation, and you yourself claimed this retaliation was against his religion and the Bibles as god's word, then what about when the UK and U.S. who dropped bombs on Germany and Japan killing millions more?

Denial of the holocaust is illegal, but lets not forget about others besides jews been victims of a holocaust today, like try starting with the past 20 years in Afghanistan, but of-course if you're a racist ultra zionist jew its not important how you use the gentiles.

STONY

Sep 19, 2005, 06:10 AM

Morganite

Sep 19, 2005, 09:57 AM

One more thing i just thought of since you mentioned that retaliation by other people against a country that has been silencing information of there illegal activities like the U.S. has been doing since WW2 and you ignorantly rave about Osama Ben Laden attacking 9/11 like all the otehr jokers who deep throat Jewish Propaganda when OBL was on the other side of the planet when it took place.

My last question ( and i am sure you will not answer it like the others) is;
If Osama Ben Laden was telling us something that the U.S. was not, and he did indeed attack WTC in retaliation, and you yourself claimed this retaliation was against his religion and the Bibles as god's word, then what about when the UK and U.S. who dropped bombs on Germany and Japan killing millions more?

Keep taking the mad pills. I have not made the suggestions you accuse me of.

I have not spoken of retaliation. I have not raved about the evil OBL who acts in contradiction to the Holy Koran.

I have not mentioned retaliation against religion and.or bibles.

My professional opinion is that you are insane and need committing to an asylum for the criminally insane.

I have reported you for consistently posting bad, racistm, hate-filled, pro-terrorist posts.

MORGANITE

G4-450

Sep 19, 2005, 01:51 PM

Abraham, The Father Of Many Nations, Issac And Ishmael His Two Sons, Issac The Leader Of The Hebrew Nation & Ishmael The Founder Of The Arab Nations. Jacob Was In Fact Issac's Son. There Is Nothing I Have Found To Indicate Abraham Was In Fact Jewish, However He Was God's Friend. And To Go One Step Farther When Abraham Lifted The Kife To Sacrifice Issac, God Saw His Faithfulness And At That Point In Time Obligated To Sacrifice His Own Son To Save The World. That Last Statement Takes An Entire Sermon To Get Into....but I Think You Have The Gist Of It Now.

Agreed, but I will share with you how something needs to be more specific since it's the key to the arguments these 2 faiths.

Just to be specific; Ishmael did not speak arabic and was not "The Founder Of The Arab Nations" as your stated., Both Ishmael and Isaac where brothers so if one was arab the other was arab, but they spoke Chaldean and where Semitic speaking peoples indeed.

Further more, Ishmael was the father of another 12 tribes whom God promised will replace the children of Israel if so they fall from grace, as jesus also put it when he reminded them that in order to obtain paradise; Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord...
And that they should have kept every one of Gods' Commandments;
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.*
The tribe of Judah has indeed taken over all 11 + tribes and the Children of Israel lost there nation with them.

Also, it is Xtreamly important to remember that "Judaism and Islam" are faiths not a race.
This Abrahamic Faiths are built on a foundation of doing the will (submission in arabic) of the one true God of all humanity, it would contradict the God of Abraham if a worshiper claimed Jews where a race, both people and the cradle of humanity where all originally semitic peoples and no other evidence can be found other then this.

The first time people heard anyone call Jews or anyone else a race was when Adolph Hitler started comparing racial theories.

So been that the nations referred to by Abraham are based on a covenant referred to as "faith", the question is which of these people actually practice there religion?
Something to know about Ishmael and Isaac;
When God promised the land to prophet Abraham, his name was Abram.

God had asked Abram to change his name to Abraham when he was ninety-nine years old. (see Genesis 17:1-5). Ishmael the eldest son was at that time thirteen years old. Isaac was born one year after the name change.

In other words, Isaac was not even born when the land was promised by God.
The name Isaac appears for the first time in the Bible in Gen. 17:19.

The land was promised by God was to the seeds of Abram, (see K.J.V.),
and it was for ever. There is no record of God going back on His Promise.
Genesis chapter 28 deals with God's promise to Jacob.

How did the Children of Israel pray, And how do Jews Pray may be a bit the same of not, you be the judge, as I understand it, if one does not practice judaism he is not a jew any more then a muslim who does not pray since its one of the pillars of the islamic faith.

A) The children of Israel Prayed exactly the same way Abraham there father of the faith prayed which is the same way muslims pray, Jews , for the most part do NOT all pray like this, yet even Jesus fell on his face like this. ( I did a search on the net for a pict)
http://www.submission.org/jews-2.jpg and read below how many others in the bible prayed like this.
Genesis 17:3 "And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,"
Genesis 17:17 "Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?"
Exodus 34:8 "And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped."
Numbers 20:6 And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto them.
Numbers 16:20-22 "And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment. And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?"
Nehemiah 8:6 And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with [their] faces to the ground.
Joshua 5:14 "And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?"
Ezekiel 9:8 "And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?"
2 Chronicles 20:18 "And Jehoshaphat bowed his head with his face to the ground: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem fell before the LORD, worshipping the LORD."
Ezekiel 11:13 "And it came to pass, when I prophesied, that Pelatiah the son of Benaiah died. Then fell I down upon my face, and cried with a loud voice, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou make a full end of the remnant of Israel?"
Matthew 17:6 "And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid."
Matthew 26:39 "And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."

Morganite

Sep 19, 2005, 05:13 PM

G4-450 - You said that Hitler was a Muslim because he hated Jews. Where did you find that?

MORGANITE

G4-450

Sep 19, 2005, 11:52 PM

G4-450 - You said that Hitler was a Muslim because he hated Jews. Where did you find that?

MORGANITE

Ha hah :) nice try hot head, did you cool off yet?

Show me where I said that, your simply been a liar and another dirty phony Jew who thinks faith comes from his mother or someone else been Jewish in his family.

There are people who say that they are Jewish, Christian or Muslim, but the ones that do not believe and practice are not at all any of them. but in-fact racist to claim FAITH as a inheritance by calling themselves these names.

So you know, I have at my disposal many bookmarks and books to save me time and trouble on these false statements you make when I post here.

As for your friend Hitler,
Hitler was a Racist Jew, had no faith at all.
Further more, only a racist would claim that Hitler was NOT a Jew because the only relative he had Jewish was his grand mother, and any Racist can call themselves Jews or muslims but not practice these faiths, this is why they are racist in the first place by clearly going against faith in the ONE TRUE God of Abraham for all humanity

Evidence in the Gospals;
Jesus called the Jewish scribes devils for saying that they did not "recognize him or his word" yet while claiming that they where seed of Abraham, seed as in blood not the faith for all man kind.

So then Jesus told them that if they where the seed of Abraham they would hear his word and recognize it, but they insead judged Jesus for been another poor man from Nazareth by his appearance.

Further more, Jesus told the Jewish scribes that if they indeed where the seed of Abraham, then they would do the works of Abraham, but they did not so, and Jesus called them Liars and said there fathers where liars also for using racial ideology to claim there faith,

Jesus then explained that Abraham's seed was the faith in doing the will (Commandments ) of the one true God of all humanity and that this was the promise to all man kind and not just Jews or the tribe of Judah.

Jesus went further to remind them that they are simply offspring of ONE GOD and HIM YOU SHALL WORSHIP ALONE and HIS HANDS ARE OPEN, NOT CLOSED TO ALL LIKE THE JEWS SAID.

Further more; if they (Judah), the single tribe of the "Children of Israel" DID NOT do the works of Abraham, then God will choose another nation that will keep there word (FAITH) and be a good example to guide mankind, and do the works of Abraham.., and of-course who was that nation but the tribes of Ishmael from the begining when God promised Abraham not to sacrifice his first son Ishmael, so read and learn as you say tough guy.

This is also Something Ultra Orthodox Jews hide from Christians while they curse them behind there backs with there Talmud's saying they are Vermin, just like Hitler and his racist theories.

Real Jews pray the same way that muslims do today and wear the same white skull caps, as I posted above.

Again, these are 2 faiths, faith is not something you just inherit from your mother or father, it is what you yourself earn.

Just so you know, I do not agree with all Islamic rulings, but I also would not go as far in depth as you have for Judaism with the corruption in the bible and political practices of many false jews and there God "Segman Fried" who they use as a therapeutical manipulative scam on others. very Un Faithful indeed.

You have not once given the thought to all the crimes against humanity for land, power and money by Israel and the U.S., as well as the lives we lost when you mention all this, and i am not talking just the 9/11 themes but iraq as well.

So lets read what the ultra Orthodox Jewish Talmudic Teachings say

---> This one Sounds like your MORGANSTINE !!
Rabbi Yaacov Perrin said, "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6).

In the Public's Eyes been they are gentiles, you hear;
"Whoever destroys the life of a single human being...it is as if he had destroyed an entire world; and whoever preserves the life of a single human being ...it is as if he had preserved an entire world."

However, Hesronot Ha-shas points out that these are not the authentic words of the original Talmud.

In other words, the preceding universalist rendering is not the authentic text of the Talmud and thus, for example, this universalist version which Steven Spielberg in his famous movie, Schindler's List attributed to the Talmud (and which became the motto of the movie on posters and in advertisements), is a hoax and constitutes propaganda intended to give a humanistic gloss to a Talmud which is, in its essence, racist and chauvinist hate literature.

In the authentic, original Talmud text it states that "whoever preserves a single soul of Israel, it is as if he had preserved an entire world" (emphasis supplied). The authentic Talmud text sanctions only the saving of Jewish lives.

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.

Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is in hell, being boiled in "hot excrement."

Sanhedrin 90a. Those who read the New Testament ("uncanonical books") will have no portion in the world to come.

Shabbath 116a. Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament.

Minor Tractates. Soferim 15, Rule 10. This is the saying of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: Tob shebe goyyim harog ("Even the best of the gentiles should all be killed").

This passage is from the original Hebrew of the Babylonian Talmud as quoted by the 1907 Jewish Encyclopedia, published by Funk and Wagnalls and compiled by Isidore Singer, under the entry, "Gentile," (p. 617).

This original Talmud passage has been concealed in translation. The Jewish Encyclopedia states that, "...in the various versions the reading has been altered, 'The best among the Egyptians' being generally substituted." In the Soncino version: "the best of the heathens" (Minor Tractates, Soferim 41a-b].

Israelis annually take part in a national pilgrimage to the grave of Simon ben Yohai, to honor this rabbi who advocated the extermination of non-Jews. (Jewish Press, June 9, 1989, p. 56B).

On Purim, Feb. 25, 1994, Israeli army officer Baruch Goldstein, an orthodox Jew from Brooklyn, massacred 40 Palestinian civilians, including children, while they knelt in prayer in a mosque. Goldstein was a disciple of the late Brooklyn Rabbi Meir Kahane, who told CBS News that his teaching that Arabs are "dogs" is derived "from the Talmud." (CBS 60 Minutes, "Kahane").

University of Jerusalem Prof. Ehud Sprinzak described Kahane and Goldstein's philosophy: "They believe it's God's will that they commit violence against goyim, a Hebrew term for non-Jews." (NY Daily News, Feb. 26, 1994, p. 5).

Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, "We have to recognize that Jewish blood and the blood of a goy are not the same thing." (NY Times, June 6, 1989, p.5).
The Old Testament Mosaic law states that touching a human corpse or the grave of a human imparts uncleanness to those who touch it. But the Talmud teaches that if a Jew touches the grave of a Gentile, the Jew is not rendered unclean, since Gentiles are not human (not of Adam).

From Baba Mezia 114b: ""A Jewish priest was standing in a graveyard. When asked why he was standing there in apparent violation of the Mosaic law, he replied that it was permissible, since the law only prohibits Jews from coming into contact with the graves of humans (Adamites), and he was standing in a gentile graveyard. For it has been taught by Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: 'The graves of gentiles [goyim] do not defile. For it is written, 'And ye my flock, the flock of my pastures, are men (Adam)' (Ezekiel 34:31); only ye are designated men (Adam)."

I can go on, and this is about a fraction of the evil Ultra Orthodox Jews practice with there man written books, the Talmuds.

G4-450

Sep 20, 2005, 02:52 AM

Keep taking the mad pills. I have not made the suggestions you accuse me of. Is that from the iChin?
Do I really need to quote you again?

I have not spoken of retaliation. I have not raved about the evil OBL who acts in contradiction to the Holy Koran.
1-You said OBL attacked WTC, I said he was not wanted for it or did it, you had no proof so I posted the FBI link for you so you can see for yourself that he is NOT wanted for this by the FBI, read and learn as you stated before, or are you clearly a hypocrite now as well.

2-You also said OBL went against the Koran and Bible (and where in them) for something again you could not prove, while I also again reminded you that OBL was under contract and paid with our TAX DOLLARS as a CIA agent with a trained team to fight Russians out of Afghanistan and those pilots where also part of that CIA devision.

3- Fact is, the argument you presented was that OBL carried out 9/11, even if so, it was all politically motivated and a religious duty according to OBL himself, as much as it should have been all peoples duty to stopping the Nazis when they also committed crimes against humanity, and it still should be our duty when countries commit crimes against humanity like Israel has done with the U.S. starting with Palestine, Iraq, South america, Africa, China and other people around the globe .

So, are you sure that you are not making indirect CONFESSIONS again?

Jihad in the bible is the same external Jihad in the Koran, Fighting in God's way is removing Tyranny, Tyranny is usually motivated by a lust for something, greed, power, money, sex whatever it is its evil, and of-course the U.S. has many man dirty secrets and caused many deaths.

My professional opinion is that you are insane and need committing to an asylum for the criminally insane.
I had the proof, where is yours, time to get your stray jacket again..
As I see it so far, your professional opinion is based on a professional LIAR and Con Artists, so go can to sleep MORGANIGHT

I have reported you for consistently posting bad, racism, hate-filled, pro-terrorist posts.

MORGANITE

I would love to see how I am pro terrorists on this forum, I spoke out against the U.S. and anyone using force to gain the advantage against civilians and murdering many as the U.S. has for the last 25+ years, and as I investigated this matter I realized that The U.S. is now the number one terrorists nation besides Israel on the planet and a threat to world peace, So how does this make me Pro terrorist? --> especially when I ask about the links I post about Talmudic teachings of hatred against non Jews. did you have anything to say about them yet?

And what do you mean about Bad racism, is yours good as in Talmudic?

AGAIN, I asked about these 2 faiths because I only seem to see one of them practicing and the other politically greedy in israel.

So if Muslims challenge anyone to there faith and are confidant its true,
Why do some Jews today tell me I am not allowed to know what is behind there motives for the kabala and there talmuds, You have not once backed anything up you said , and only shared your opinion based on Pro Jewish media..

STONY

Sep 20, 2005, 06:29 AM

You Guys Should Really Go To Answerway, They Specialize In Arguing And Insulting Each Other. I Will Have To Rethink Wheather Or Not Coming To This Site Was Such A "good" Idea.

G4-450

Sep 20, 2005, 06:43 AM

You Guys Should Really Go To Answerway, They Specialize In Arguing And Insulting Each Other. I Will Have To Rethink Wheather Or Not Coming To This Site Was Such A "good" Idea.

Well

I did say that these are the key arguments between the 2 faiths,
IF you ask muslims they will show you their books and historical facts, but if you ask a orthodox Jew, he will walk away from you if you not one yourself or tell you something with out showing you a thing.

i asked "Morganite" here to show me his or atleast present a answer to these writtings in the Jewish Talmud books which are allot like Nime kumpf as i see, but he instead got all hot headed and AVOIDED THE QUESTIONS.

So there is no more argument, he lost it there.

But I still would like to know what he thinks about these Talmudic writings still, for they are like the arabic Hadeeths (sayings) but very evil compared to hadeeths with are divided between authentic and non authorized or witnessed sayings.

And again, I am saying this because we all make mistakes and there is allways room for peace if there is room for the truth, so if Morganite likes peace why not step forward rather then expressing hatred towards the arabs in islam mentioned here?

It is for sure that if he has this bitter outlook about certain people its clear he backs all these Talmudic racist books.

And on top of that, i accept his been ignorant with arabic, i am not a arabic speaker myself and i make the same mistakes, we all make these mistakes miss interpreting Islam this way too.

Example:Morganite mentions "Fatwa", that means "Warrant" in english,
The U.S. has a "Fatwa" AKA "Dead or Alive" Warrant on Osama Ben Laden but not for 9/11 which Morganite claims, but for with holding information he knew about the bombings at a Embassey "Majuba" Africa.

so we are talking about OBL as a witness and not a suspect, both on that bombing in africa and 9/11, yet many people knew about 9/11 including the FBI, Musad in Israel, even French and German intelegence agency questioned the FBI to why the U.S. desclosed information of a operation to stop it, it was clear that bush was gonna be Presidant and war was the U.S. Goverment's agenda and again to prevent a revolution.

why?,
becuase Israel controls america according to Ariel Sharon.

So Morgenite, please present a explination to the deep racial hatred for others in these talmuds which are the guides hidden behind the agenda of the Ultra Orthodox Jews who have power in Israel and and Nuclear arms WOMD and by fact a threat to WORLD PEACE..

Morganite

Sep 21, 2005, 09:53 AM

ha hah :) nice try hot head, did you cool off yet?

Show me where i said that, your simply been a liar and another dirty phony Jew who thinks faith comes from his mother or someone else been Jewish in his family.

There are people who say that they are Jewish, Christian or Muslim, but the ones that do not believe and practice are not at all any of them., but in-fact racist to claim FAITH as a inheritance by calling themselves these names.

So you know, I have at my disposal many bookmarks and books to save me time and trouble on these false statements you make when i post here.

As for your friend Hitler,
Hitler was a Racist Jew, had no faith at all.
Further more, only a racist would claim that Hitler was NOT a Jew because the only relative he had Jewish was his grand mother, and any Racist can call themselves Jews or muslims but not practice these faiths, this is why they are racist in the first place by clearly going against faith in the ONE TRUE God of Abraham for all humanity

Evidence in the Gospals;
Jesus called the Jewish scribes devils for saying that they did not "recognize him or his word" yet while claiming that they where seed of Abraham, seed as in blood not the faith for all man kind.

So then Jesus told them that if they where the seed of Abraham they would hear his word and recognize it, but they insead judged Jesus for been another poor man from Nazareth by his appearance.

Further more, Jesus told the Jewish scribes that if they indeed where the seed of Abraham, then they would do the works of Abraham, but they did not so, and Jesus called them Liars and said there fathers where liars also for using racial ideology to claim there faith,

Jesus then explained that Abraham's seed was the faith in doing the will (Commandments ) of the one true God of all humanity and that this was the promise to all man kind and not just Jews or the tribe of Judah.

Jesus went further to remind them that they are simply offspring of ONE GOD and HIM YOU SHALL WORSHIP ALONE and HIS HANDS ARE OPEN, NOT CLOSED TO ALL LIKE THE JEWS SAID.

Further more; if they (Judah), the single tribe of the "Children of Israel" DID NOT do the works of Abraham, then God will choose another nation that will keep there word (FAITH) and be a good example to guide mankind, and do the works of Abraham.., and of-course who was that nation but the tribes of Ishmael from the begining when God promised Abraham not to sacrifice his first son Ishmael, so read and learn as you say tough guy.

This is also Something Ultra Orthodox Jews hide from Christians while they curse them behind there backs with there Talmud's saying they are Vermin, just like Hitler and his racist theories.

Real Jews pray the same way that muslims do today and wear the same white skull caps, as i posted above.

Again, these are 2 faiths, faith is not something you just inherit from your mother or father, it is what you yourself earn.

Just so you know, i do not agree with all Islamic rulings, but i also would not go as far in depth as you have for Judaism with the corruption in the bible and political practices of many false jews and there God "Segman Fried" who they use as a therapeutical manipulative scam on others., very Un Faithful indeed.

You have not once given the thought to all the crimes against humanity for land, power and money by Israel and the U.S., as well as the lives we lost when you mention all this, and i am not talking just the 9/11 themes but iraq as well.

So lets read what the ultra Orthodox Jewish Talmudic Teachings say

---> This one Sounds like your MORGANSTINE !!
Rabbi Yaacov Perrin said, "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6).

In the Public's Eyes been they are gentiles, you hear;
"Whoever destroys the life of a single human being...it is as if he had destroyed an entire world; and whoever preserves the life of a single human being ...it is as if he had preserved an entire world."

However, Hesronot Ha-shas points out that these are not the authentic words of the original Talmud.

In other words, the preceding universalist rendering is not the authentic text of the Talmud and thus, for example, this universalist version which Steven Spielberg in his famous movie, Schindler's List attributed to the Talmud (and which became the motto of the movie on posters and in advertisements), is a hoax and constitutes propaganda intended to give a humanistic gloss to a Talmud which is, in its essence, racist and chauvinist hate literature.

In the authentic, original Talmud text it states that "whoever preserves a single soul of Israel, it is as if he had preserved an entire world" (emphasis supplied). The authentic Talmud text sanctions only the saving of Jewish lives.

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.

Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is in hell, being boiled in "hot excrement."

Sanhedrin 90a. Those who read the New Testament ("uncanonical books") will have no portion in the world to come.

Shabbath 116a. Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament.

Minor Tractates. Soferim 15, Rule 10. This is the saying of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: Tob shebe goyyim harog ("Even the best of the gentiles should all be killed").

This passage is from the original Hebrew of the Babylonian Talmud as quoted by the 1907 Jewish Encyclopedia, published by Funk and Wagnalls and compiled by Isidore Singer, under the entry, "Gentile," (p. 617).

This original Talmud passage has been concealed in translation. The Jewish Encyclopedia states that, "...in the various versions the reading has been altered, 'The best among the Egyptians' being generally substituted." In the Soncino version: "the best of the heathens" (Minor Tractates, Soferim 41a-b].

Israelis annually take part in a national pilgrimage to the grave of Simon ben Yohai, to honor this rabbi who advocated the extermination of non-Jews. (Jewish Press, June 9, 1989, p. 56B).

On Purim, Feb. 25, 1994, Israeli army officer Baruch Goldstein, an orthodox Jew from Brooklyn, massacred 40 Palestinian civilians, including children, while they knelt in prayer in a mosque. Goldstein was a disciple of the late Brooklyn Rabbi Meir Kahane, who told CBS News that his teaching that Arabs are "dogs" is derived "from the Talmud." (CBS 60 Minutes, "Kahane").

University of Jerusalem Prof. Ehud Sprinzak described Kahane and Goldstein's philosophy: "They believe it's God's will that they commit violence against goyim, a Hebrew term for non-Jews." (NY Daily News, Feb. 26, 1994, p. 5).

Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, "We have to recognize that Jewish blood and the blood of a goy are not the same thing." (NY Times, June 6, 1989, p.5).
The Old Testament Mosaic law states that touching a human corpse or the grave of a human imparts uncleanness to those who touch it. But the Talmud teaches that if a Jew touches the grave of a Gentile, the Jew is not rendered unclean, since Gentiles are not human (not of Adam).

From Baba Mezia 114b: ""A Jewish priest was standing in a graveyard. When asked why he was standing there in apparent violation of the Mosaic law, he replied that it was permissible, since the law only prohibits Jews from coming into contact with the graves of humans (Adamites), and he was standing in a gentile graveyard. For it has been taught by Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: 'The graves of gentiles [goyim] do not defile. For it is written, 'And ye my flock, the flock of my pastures, are men (Adam)' (Ezekiel 34:31); only ye are designated men (Adam)."

I can go on, and this is about a fraction of the evil Ultra Orthodox Jews practice with there man written books, the Talmuds.

I have told you before, I am not a Jew, Orthodox, LIberal, Conservative, Hassidic, or Ultra Orthopdox.

Therefore, your arguments about them are of no importance to me. This thread was started with the subject 'THE NAME OF GOD.'

What your anti-semitic tirades have to do with that subject you seem unable to explain. I have tried to understand you, but you refuse to be reasonable and continue to attack as if I had personally done you and your family some great harm.

I can only say, that your targeting of your supposed enemies is as accurate as Bion Laden's targeting of the thousands of Israelis he thought were kept locked up inside the WTC.

My culture teaches me to respond to what an enemy has done, not to punish an innocent party because of what someone else has done.

You don't like Jews? Fine. You don't like Christians? FIne. You don't like Muslims? Fine. You don't like Arabs or Egyptians or Indians or Turks or Frenchmen? Fine.

You do not have to like them. No one is going to make you like them. But what has this to do with the nam,e of God?

G4-450

Sep 21, 2005, 11:21 AM

I have told you before, I am not a Jew, Orthodox, LIberal, Conservative, Hassidic, or Ultra Orthopdox.
Where did I say you are Jewish or even Muslim?
Maybe racist Zionist so far if anything for not speaking out against Talmudic Hatred.

Therefore, your arguments about them are of no importance to me. This thread was started with the subject 'THE NAME OF GOD.' This thread is called Islam and Judaism
I am still asking about Ultra Orthodox Jewish Talmud's and there racist anti semitic threats and threats to all to all (non jewish) humanity.

What your anti-semitic tirades have to do with that subject you seem unable to explain. I have tried to understand you, but you refuse to be reasonable and continue to attack as if I had personally done you and your family some great harm. Your avoiding the fact that the talmud is anti Semitic and a threat to world peace itself,

Semitic means Asiatic speaking peoples ( aramaic, arabic, persian and finally hebrew in 1945) basically Semitic means Arabic speaking people, Hebrew was only spoken since 1945 and was only used in scriptures before this with out vowels, this is where there Tenak you mentioned came AFTER THE TORAH not BEFORE IT, it's a letter build up of the Torah. so your theory there is false, and whether your jewish or not it is a historical Zionist lie.

Either you are really obsessed with Zionism or simply brainwashed by some sneeky Zionist Want to be Semitic Jew from somewhere other then Israel.

I can only say, that your targetting of your supposed enemies is as accurate as Bion Laden's targetting of the thousands of Israelis he thought were kept locked up inside the WTC.
I like to know what makes you think I have enemies or where you got that crazy idea?
Again , I am 100% sure you will not answer the questions because you can not, you make everything up like your Osama stories which so many people have doubts about with theories as well.

My culture teaches me to respond to what an enemy has done, not to punish an innocent party because of what someone else has done. what culture that, POP?
In your statement, you should die for the germans if your saying we should have never bombed them to end that terrible war with so many people baked in ovens, but then again, us dropping a Bomb on Japan kind of tells the whole truth behind Hitler and the "NEW WORLD ORDER" his banker Prescott Bush was backing up. that name Bush sounds familiar does it not?

You don't like Jews? Fine. You don;t like Christians? FIne. You don't like Muslims? Fine. You don't like Arabs or Egyptians or Indians or Turks or Frenchmen? Fine.I never said I did not like jews, Judaism's holiest book is the Torah, so I like those who read it with the right reading and not the liars who read that book you ignore called the Talmud when you kiss there A*ss by making up stories like they predated the tribe of Judah itself.

You do not have to like them. No one is oging to make you like them. But what has this to do with the nam,e of God?

Ok you your trying to do what these Zionist say when Jews ask them why the hell they are obsessed with the idea of Israel oppression the gentiles (non Jews), this means you're the average American's enemy, even more then Osama ben Laden for dragging innocent people into a war with out them knowing how mush you hate them for not been Jewish, and think of them as we read in the Talmud, and as we heard the Zionist Jew Hitler also say about the real Jews he wanted to get rid of.

For someone who claims they are not jewish it could be you're a simple racist Jew Zionists who believes the Talmud is Holier then the torah and non jews should die, is that correct?

In a court of law, your time is about up here, silence is no longer a going to protect that fact that you did not ever say anything contrary to the TALMUD, which states "NON JEWS SHOULD DIE AND ARE VERMIN" , Hitler even said the same things about real Jews who followed the Torah, so how does this Book and you defer here?

The topic is? (((((((Islam and Judaism))))))))
Lets talk about the talmud, a book many Jews DO NOT CONSIDER HOLY!

So read and learn as you say hypocrite!!

So now that its clear I am on the topic, can you give your 2 cents about these Talmud's? I have no problem to take back anything I said insulting if you are against the Talmud's hatred for humanity and plans for world destruction, especially if you admit to think about Israel having WMODs and these religious fanatics there with these books sounds like a dangerous plot compared to Iraq.

So lay of OBL and the WTC, or at-least ask how 1500 jewish employees new enough to move out of the WTC just days before this happened and did not tell others.

Sharon's Infamous Comment -
"We Control America"
From George Paxinos
[email protected]
12-1-3

During an argument between the Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Foreign Minister Shimon Peres, Peres said that Isralis' policies of continued violence might "turn the US against us".

To this Sharon retorted:

"EVERY TIME WE DO SOMETHING, YOU TELL ME AMERICANS WILL DO THIS AND WILL DO THAT. I WANT TO TELL YOU SOMETHING VERY CLEAR: DON'T WORRY ABOUT AMERICAN PRESSURE ON ISRAEL;

WE, THE JEWISH PEOPLE, CONTROL AMERICA. AND THE AMERICANS KNOW IT."

-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon
October 3, 2001
(IAP News)

It therefore follows that America is fighting wars in Afghanistan and Iraq under Zionist control. Mahathir is right. Jews rule America (and most of the world) by proxy. They trick us into fighting and dying for THEM.

Politicians of the 'free world' are too cowardly oppose Zionism.

Morganite

Sep 21, 2005, 11:48 AM

I followed your posted quote: THE JEWISH PEOPLE, CONTROL AMERICA. AND THE AMERICANS KNOW IT, to its source.

Its source is DAVID IRVING.

He is discredited, and everything you post or repeat that he has posted or said is discredited. No decent Muslim will listen to his lies.

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Historian David Irving, who has been vilified for questioning whether 6m Jews were killed by the Nazis, sued an American academic for claiming that he is a 'Hitler partisan' who twists history to cast the German dictator in a better light. He lost his case - find out why here.

Latest
Failed libel action costs Irving his home
May 22: The disgraced author David Irving yesterday lost a last ditch attempt to stave off the seizure of his home after the disastrous libel case which left his reputation in shreds.

The judgment in full
The aftermath
Holocaust denier made bankrupt

March 5: The pro-Nazi author David Irving was yesterday declared bankrupt after failing to pay £150,000 in costs after his disastrous libel action against charges that he was a Holocaust denier.

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July 21: David Irving may face bankruptcy after the court of appeal yesterday rejected his application to appeal.

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May 31: The rightwing historian David Irving, who owes more than £1m in legal costs from his failed Holocaust libel case in London earlier this year, has arrived in California to start a three-month fundraising tour of the United States.

Irving ordered to pay £150,000 interim costs
May 6: The financial ruin of the pro-Nazi author David Irving came closer yesterday when a judge ordered him to pay an interim sum of £150,000 towards the costs incurred by Penguin Books for his disastrous libel action against charges that he was a Holocaust denier.

Why history matters
April 15: David Irving's libel defeat is a cause for celebration. Now, argues writer DD Guttenplan, who sat through the trial, we can engage in clear-headed discussion about the Holocaust

April 13: Beaten Irving vows to fight attempts to seize home

Leader: The cost of free speech

Analysis
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Irving is a Nazi, and those who promulgate and propagate his vicuious godless hatred are also Nazis.

You kiss his feet if you want to, and worship his as your god if you want to, but it becomes time to tell the truth.

That time is now.

You believe David Irving! It would be funny if it was not tragic.

Ibn Saud

G4-450

Sep 21, 2005, 11:53 AM

You are been anti semitic morganstine, you and this David guy. I say this from your protectiveness of the TALMUD and its treat to all non jews around the world in it.

You need me to find more statements by Ariel Sharon and people like him in Israel and the U.S. who claim they are Jewish as in the faith and who brag about how they get away with fooling the U.S. into proxy wars?

You do not seem to have anything bad to say about the Talmudic anti semitic-ism in itself , Do you or do you not back up these racist ideologies against non jews in the Talmud's? at-least prove that it is not correct if so.

I do not consider the Talmud's Jewish or especially holier then the TORAH, your saying I do not like jews is a sham and a typical denial game Ultra Orthodox Jews do to practice there commandments in the talmud which state they can LIE to non jews and even other jews about the Talmudic writtings which state to destroy the non Jewish gentiles who are referred in the talmud as VERMIN, especially destroy the Christians.

What God tells someone to kill other people and that they have the right above the laws of the Commandments to lie? Sounds satanic to me.
Especially if this God could not create the rest of life on the planet.

So stop playing games and look at the posts from the talmuds I made. they make Osama Ben Laden look like a angel, even Hitler was not as devious and clever with all the hate he had for humanity,. - > these books are the bible of racism and hatred from what I read, And for sure, it is safe to call them the SATANIC BIBLE.

Morganite

Sep 21, 2005, 01:38 PM

G4-450 G4-450 is offline
Junior Expert

Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 66
G4-450 is on a distinguished road

Islam and Judaism
Peace and love to everyone

I want to understand the difference between Islam and Judaism, there roots between the children of Abraham, who is the founder of all 3 faiths (Judaism, Chriostianity and Islam) to one God Almighty, and the Ka'Baa..

Peace again to all.

Did you mean any of this when you wrote it?

:confused:

G4-450

Sep 21, 2005, 01:59 PM

HA HA

Now you can not tell the diference between a saluation and a promise, come on kid, learn your english.MORGANTINE why not stop your games and answr the question on the Talmud,
Peace is the last thing these books have anything to do with so explain your position with them because I have a few universities interested in all your posts, you seem to know allot more then your telling everyone about Judaism and it is a shame you are using your talents deviously to avoid the question over and over again and instead paint others for what these books stand for when all else failed for you in your cuase.

So far many conservative right winged Ultra Orthodox pro white Jewish talmudic falloweers have also played the same Blame games you have demon-strated here, why not be honest for once and share how you really feel about why certain Jews SHOULD BE above the law and others should die?

As I read the Babylonian Talmud, it is filled with hatred and anti semitism and is in no way anything to do with Abraham or PEACE, it promotes ethnic cleansing of the very people Abraham was himself, a Chaldean speaking person, which is a ARAB, and it proves that the tribe if Judah did indeed carried out ethnic cleansing against the other tribes of "Children of Israel" after the death of Solomon. David's Son.

And explain your last posts again, are you trying to say that because I questioned the Talmud I do not come forward with peaceful intentions?

If you are not jewish as you say then why are you avoiding the question?, i can understand if you thought i was trying to say the talmud stood for all jews, but i certainly did not say all jews fallow the racist Talmud anyway, i said Ultra Orthodox Zionists do, and they are as racist disguised as jews, just like there also racist people in disguise who call themselves muslims or christians and have evil ambitions.

So share your thoughts with us on the Talmudic Statements instead claiming others are trying to read your mind while you yourself has ran out of guesses about your imagionary enemies minds like Osama Ben Laden for starts,

i am not Osama ok, you feel better now.

Tower4Love

Sep 21, 2005, 03:22 PM

Morganite

Sep 21, 2005, 07:44 PM

Shalom,

I was reading the following post, and thought that I should comment.

Morganite, you have gone far enough so shame on you !

The Corruption of Judaism with the Talmud is true !!!

I am of a movement of Judaism known as Qaraim. We reject the Mishnah and Gemarah of our Rabbinical counterparts.
The T"NK (Torah, Navim, and Ketuvim) to our knowledge is the sole word of our Creator, blessed be He, YHWH the Only True God. We base all of our beliefs, and customs upon what is found in written in the T"NK. Like unto you we prostrate ourselves in prayer before our God, blessed be He, YHWH the Only True God.

In many ways we look Muslim, however we are not Muslim, nor could we ever be Muslim. The reason being is that the T"NK being the true word of God to us shows many things that do not agree with the words of the Qu'ran. I could list these, but it would be a long list, and you would probably become bored with the list after a while.

In short, I have to agree with you that Rabbinical Judaism has corrupted the culture of our fathers, and the teachings of our God, blessed be He, YHWH the Only True God, through their creation of the Talmud, but the written word of our God, known as the T"NK has still preserved this culture. And if it does not agree with the T"NK to me, then it is wrong. Nothing against Muslims, and all, but this is just the way that Qaraim think.

May YHWH bless and keep you!

You must be out of the same barrell as G4-450 because you accuse me of things I have not said and of holding opinions that I do not hold.

For example, I have NEVER suggested that Rabbinical Judaism has corrupted the culture of [y]our fathers, and the teachings of [y]our God,

Why do you say I have done so? LSD?

There is a name for a false accuser in Hebrew. I presume you know what it is.

Like unto you we prostrate ourselves in prayer before our God, blessed be He, YHWH the Only True God.

What makes you think I prostrate myself like unto YOU? You make assumptions that no educated persons COULD make.

I have not taken a stand for or against Judaism or Islam or Christianity or Jainism or Buddhism or Hinduism or Sikhism or Confucianism, Or anything, as you will find if you take the trouble to read through my postings without getting bored.

My interest has been purely historical.

Unlike you and your sad little terrorist friend, who is probably your alter ego, I have no religious axe to grind, and you can take that to the bank.

MORGANITE

:eek:

Tower4Love

Sep 21, 2005, 11:53 PM

MORGANITE

He is no friend of mine, but I can not say that everyone who rejects the Talmud's teachings are my enemies,

I believe the question is "do you reject them" or support there intolerant human trend and terrorism.

As far as I read back in this post, you have rejected arabs alone (not muslims) , this is talmudic racism.

G4-450

Sep 22, 2005, 01:04 AM

You must be out of the same barrell as G4-450 because you accuse me of things I have not said and of holding opinions that I do not hold. No one accused you of anything you did NOT say, and if anything I am asking you to say something in your defense if you can back up these Talmud's as good books and not beyond terrorist ideologies which you ignorantly have been playing off the media instead.

Obviously you support Talmudic teachings here, where have you said that your against there hate filled gore?

For example, I suggested that Rabbinical Judaism has corrupted the culture of your fathers, and the teachings of our God, and hell is promised to those and i know i will go there not for suggesting this but for supporting it really, for a moment I thought you where using typo technicalities with God's will (law) like dirty lawyers do in court to leave loopholes to escape been blamed for there actions.

You're a real Con Artists Morgenite, this is not smart but devious and clever, what kind of a person thinks this is educated but a very evil man who dies with hell on there conscience as you will if you do not change your ways because you seek to gain a argument like a hypocrite by using by cheating words that describe you.

There is only One God, and if the God you mention did not create me or Arabs then what God is that when the true God created everything?

Why do you say I have done so? i would like to avoid the question until i can drag this out as long as possible, why would i let you know i am a liar when a good liar goes to the grave with the truth
Your funny and seriously insane as you described it, so far you support Talmudic Racism and the threat to WORLD peace and beyond what you recall as terrorism.

There is a name for a false accuser in Hebrew. I presume you know what it is. Yes, I am from greece and I know it well, it describes you perfectly, you avoid the fact that I asked you the same question 12 times now and I also warned you that you're a prime example of why the U.S. should totally Stop supporting Israel and freeze there terrorist assets as well as there jobs in congress which is something on I headr lately and why Israel finally pulled out of Gaza.

Its very hard for me to Live in Tel Aviv and deal with everyone complaining about Sharon and his lies, especially his skin head racist son and there crimes to stay in power, the guy braggs about how he used the U.S. contacts to decieve votes.

Like unto you we prostrate ourselves in prayer before our God, blessed be He, YHWH the Only True God.

What makes you think I prostrate myself like unto YOU? You make assumptions that no educated persons COULD make. I am more educated then you are, i am a SS Jew Why would you say that to him Morgantide? Bowing is the teachings of Abraham and Jesus as well, and where did you get your education from is clearly the false accuser again, yourself, and you know it very well where God will send you in this life and the portion in the hear after according to all the scriptures.

I have not taken a stand for or against Judaism or Islam or Christianity or Jainism or Buddhism or Hinduism or Sikhism or Confucianism,. or anything, as you will find if you take the trouble to read through my postings without getting bored.[

My interest has been purely historical.

I read your postings as well as 42 other students.
We had concluded that your avoiding the questions about the Talmud because your
1- either jewish and have been hiding this and are afraid the books give all jews a bad name or
2- you simply have racist hating opinions about certain people which are in these books and again, jewish in some way or pretending you are.

And if your interests where honestly historical then why did you avoid the evidence in the talmud which promotes ethnic cleansing and testifies against Judaic History and clearly spells them as the lost tribe, I guess God was not enough, they want the world too now?

Unlike you and your sad little terrorist friend, who is probably your alter ego, I have no religious axe to grind, and you can take that to the bank.
MORGANITE

Judaism and Islam Morganite, for the 13th time, the talmud, do you believe some jews have the right to go above the law like Adolph Hitler did and kill certain people they consider Vermin in these Books?

Morganite

Sep 22, 2005, 06:53 AM

No one accused you of anything you did NOT say, and if anything i am asking you to say something in your defense if you can back up these Talmud's as good books and not beyond terrorist ideologies which you ignorantly have been playing off the media instead.

Obviously you support Talmudic teachings here, where have you said that your against there hate filled gore?

really, for a moment i thought you where using typo technicalities with God's will (law) like dirty lawyers do in court to leave loopholes to escape been blamed for there actions.

Your a real Con Artists Morgenite, this is not smart but devious and clever, what kind of a person thinks this is educated but a very evil man who dies with hell on there conscience as you will if you do not change your ways because you seek to gain a argument like a hypocrite by using by cheating words that describe you.

There is only One God, and if the God you mention did not create me or Arabs then what God is that when the true God created everything?

Your funny and seriously insane as you described it, so far you support Talmudic Racism and the threat to WORLD peace and beyond what you recall as terrorism.

Yes, i am from greece and i know it well, it describes you perfectly, you avoid the fact that i asked you the same question 12 times now and i also warned you that your a prime example of why the U.S. should totally Stop supporting Israel and freeze there terrorist assets as well as there jobs in congress which is something on i headr lately and why Israel finaly pulled out of Gaza.

Its very hard for me to Live in Tel Aviv and deal with everyone complaining about Sharon and his lies, especialy his skin head racist son and there crimes to stay in power, the guy braggs about how he used the U.S. contacts to decieve votes.

Why would you say that to him Morgantide? Bowing is the teachings of Abraham and Jesus as well, and where did you get your education from is clearly the false accuser again, yourself, and you know it very well where God will send you in this life and the portion in the hear after according to all the scriptures.

i read your postings as well as 42 other students.
We had concluded that your avoiding the questions about the Talmud because your
1- either jewish and have been hiding this and are afraid the books give all jews a bad name or
2- you simply have racist hating opinions about certain people which are in these books and again, jewish in some way or pretending you are.

And if your interests where honestly historical then why did you avoid the evidence in the talmud which promotes ethnic cleansing and testifies against Judaic History and clearly spells them as the lost tribe, I guess God was not enough, they want the world too now?

Judaism and Islam Morganite, for the 13th time, the talmud, do you believe some jews have the right to go above the law like Adolph Hitler did and kill certain people they consider Vermin in these Books?

I do hope that your 42 st8udent can comprehend your tortuous thinkng better than I can, Kokoveos!

M

:eek:

Morganite

Sep 22, 2005, 07:07 AM

Of course I have been accused of saying things I did not say.

I have never defended any kind of racism and do not now, but your saying - insisting - that I do - is a hellborn lie after the Mster of Lies whom you seem to serve.

I have fought racism all my long life and I still do from whatever source and towards whatever target.

So clean up your act. Lean to read English, Learn to comprehend what you read. Get the venom out of your eyes, and start speaking with the peace and love you promised.

Δεν μπορείτε να μιλήσετε όπως έναν ανόητο και να θεωρηθείτε σοφό άτομο.

Τρώω τα ανόητα αγόρια για το πρόγευμά μου!

MORGANITE

:p

G4-450

Sep 22, 2005, 08:22 AM

Of course I have been accused of saying things I did not say.
Like ?

As for Solomon and the House of Judah 'taking over' the rest ofd the tribes and forcing them to convert to Judaism, that sounds very much like the tactics that Mohammed would later use to effect the spread of Islam. However, that does not square with actual history.

No , these are the lies Racist Talmudic Jews made up about Muhammad and you can read them in the Talmud and reflect historical facts that reviel Mohammed was a prophet.

So from your post we all know why you have avoided the Talmud, it exposes lies about historical facts that many jews (also arab looking and who where witness to oppression ) converted to Islam and helped Mohammed clean up the Kabah of idol worshipers.

Mohammed had not killed anyone who opposed him unless they attacked him to kill, armed, it's a historical fact that Islam laid down the first peace (salam) treaty in the world which was broken by some Talmudic Jews over and over again.--> his was news to me as well growing up in the U.S. with so many islam- phoebes like you who lie. not to forget that the U.S. constitution adapted lots of laws from islam, Equal rights, freedom of speech.

Although religions all take a turn and abuse there rules of conduct tehse where Islams.

And as For europe, coming out of the dark ages with death cults worshiping graves of saints with deep superstitions took people 500 years to accept that the world was ROUND or learning how to count using arabic numbers and the use of number "0", this are historical facts.

I have never defended any kind of racism
Yes, the TALMUD.

have fought racism all my long life and I still do from whatever source and towards whatever target.
So, what about the talmud, again?

So clean up your act. Lean to read English,
GREEK and GREEK
Not from a Hypocrite and racist like you... you spell out how racist you more then you can spell english. especially by jumping on a opportunity to attack another from there nationality to claim your better at it yourself. what else do hypocrites do to win a argument they DESIRE blindly.

Get the venom out of your eyes, and start speaking with the peace and love you promised.
Can you see my eyes?
Did I promise you peace, and if Abraham has seen any one like you in his presence I am sure he would have slid your throat for been such a liar with all the dirty things you have said and made up debating historical evidence in the Talmud's.

Again; What gives a Talmudic Racist Jew the right to kill innocent people for been arabs or non jews?

I still did not hear what you have to say about the talmud again... geese, should I post more satanic passages from the talmud and its hateful venom towards humanity or are you just going to blame others for the very things the Talmud's teach you morgastine?

You can read right, let me know when your ready

chrisl

Sep 22, 2005, 08:38 AM

1 Timothy 6:4
1 Timothy 6:20-21

Leave it to Paul to give inspired advice about these situations!

Chris

Tower4Love

Sep 22, 2005, 08:54 AM

Shalom

These links give a wide opinion and proof of the hypocrisy practiced with a Talmud and are just a fraction of the information about them, most of the links in the Talmud's Defense are basically tricky and not straight forward in admitting the texts.

Christians against the Talmud
http://www.christusrex.org/www2/talmud-exposed/talmud-exposed.htm

Muslims and the Talmud
http://www.radioislam.org/talmud/

Fasciest and Nazis also have found a medium to attack all semitic speaking peoples ( not just jews)
http://groups.msn.com/Mishpocha/thetalmudpart1.msnw

This one defends the Talmud but you can read for yourself how the writer David Madison also admits to many things as he goes on.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/8815/
Example
CLAIM --> Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."

RESPONSE
It actually states that a Jew who has converted to a pagan worship and is causing trouble to his fellow Jews may be left to die and one may abstain from giving him aid at the time of his need.

It should be noted that Rabbi Simeon ben Yohai did actually say, elsewhere in the Talmud, "Even the best of the goyim (gentiles) should all be killed", which seems to be re-hashed in this alleged quote. It should be noted that his statement is the opinion of just one person, the Talmud does not endorse it and he said this under the most extreme circumstances - after his friends and teachers had been persecuted, tortured and eventually murdered by the Romans in the Bar Kochbar revolt (135 CE). E.S./ David S. Maddison ([email protected])

Another Jewish site on the Talmud
http://www.mideastweb.org/jewreligion.htm

Example
S the Talmud kept secret from Gentiles?

The Talmud and other Jewish books are not kept secret from anyone. The Talmud was written in Aramaic and recorded in a sort of telegraphic style that requires extensive exegesis and study for good understanding. Regardless of religion, people who do not have this background will find it very difficult to understand, even if they understand Hebrew, which is somewhat similar to Aramaic. However, there are English translations, and large parts of the Talmud in translation have been placed on the Web
Are Jews descended from the Khazars?

The late Arthur Koestler speculated that European (Ashkenazy) Jews are all descended from a central Asian tribe, the Khazars, that converted to Judaism en-masse. Antisemites and anti-Zionists have used this theory to claim that Ashkenazy Jews have no right to the State of Israel. Subsequent research has shown that the claim that Ashkenazy Jews descended from Khazars is very doubtful. At different times, many tribes did convert to Judaism, including Arabian tribes the kingdom of Yemen and the Khazars, and some may have intermarried with "original" Jews. Similarly, many Jews converted voluntarily or by coercion to Christianity or Islam. The best evidence indicates that Jews dispersed throughout Europe from Rome. There were Jewish communities in France in the dark ages evidently. Other Ashkenazy Jews are descended from Spanish (Sephardic) Jews who were force to leave Spain in 1492. Genetic evidence indicates that European Jews are probably closer to Palestinian and Syrian Arabs than to central Asians who are partly descended from the Khazars; see articles here and here for example. In any case, the claims of a people to nationhood are almost never based on genetics or "race." Nobody claims that all the French are descended from ancient Gauls, or that all the British are descended from the Celts and Picts. When Americans talk about "'our' forefathers," the 'our' doesn't usually exclude the generations of immigrants who came after the Mayflower settlers. Today's Arab Palestinians are not all descended from ancient Canaanites and Philistines. Some are converted Jews. Some are descended from Arab families who arrived with various conquerors. Whatever the merits the genetic arguments, claims that anyone has no right to a country because they are not racially "pure" are racist claims, and identify the people making those claims as racists.

Morganite

Sep 22, 2005, 09:09 PM

When you drink from poisoned wells, you cannot speak in purity. That is a simple law that God has spoken.

MORGANITE

:)

Morganite

Sep 22, 2005, 09:15 PM

Yeah, i can not find anything that says Islam or Muslims hate other religions, i can agree with the fact that they share what the Koran says when i ask them though., and that is simple.

1- Does not matter what religions you want to fallow after Abraham's, as long as you do good and remember meeting God on the last day.
2- But once you know the story and you prefer another religion, your reasons will be your loss to other people and there society for choosing them over Gods religion, which means submit to his will.
Because the story is that people made these religions after Abraham.

This is what they say, and it sounds completely opposite from the medias.

For example: Judaism is based on the Tora, the old testament in the bible.
Yet: The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book, they consider it more holy then the Tora AKA old testament in the bible. Christ and even Mohammed condemned the traditions of the Mishnah (early Talmud) and those who taught it (Scribes and Pharisees), because the Talmud nullifies the teachings of the Holy Bible.. (Mark 7:1-13)The Pharisees teach for doctrine the commandments of rabbis, not God.
I can go on...but orthodox jews practice all 660+ commandments and not just the 10 we all heard of, these above are some of them.

So these certain leaders of the scribes did the same thing to Mohammed that they did to Jesus when they met him, not that they are the same people, but people who consider there books the holiest thing on the planet.

This makes Islam look clean if you ask me, the only draw back is racism has its roots in the Talmud., if you read it online places you will see.
Judaic history, remember, are only one of the 12 tribes and where 14 Generations after Abraham, according to the Gospel MARK 1.

So, Islam is the only religion in history of of allowed other religions to live under there administration., this is why i am posting all this, i can not believe the whole U.S. war thing has anything to do with Islam other then sharing the wealth with arab sheiks who rose the prices after getting Sadam out of the way because he started to deal with Russia after all those years Osama worked for the CIA in Afghanistan to get them out of the picture.

But the one thing that strikes me as clear propaganda is when you say anything about anyone been Jewish, its anti Semitic, yet arabs are very Semitic and Judaism is only a religion, the claims to both rites are false and invented.

I still think people should have a second look at who is creating all the real problems and why on this planet., these people do not belong to any group, and they can be anyone, even your kids.

Why try to pass of the academic work of another as your own?

Check this: www.mideastweb.org/jewreligion.htm

Is it plagiarism or coincidence? Whatever it is, it explains why you cannot respond to questions it raises in your respondees posts. You do not know your subject and that puts you at a grave disadvantage, also explaiing why you have to change to another ground of attack with each post.

Unmasked!

MORGANITE

. :)

G4-450

Sep 23, 2005, 04:08 AM

1 Timothy 6:4
1 Timothy 6:20-21

Leave it to Paul to give inspired advice about these situations!

Chris
Well

We do not need to leave anything to to Saul or AKA Paul who also taught another Gospel besides Jesus. but that is not the tpoic here in order to see the clear proof of how some people abuse the scriptures to justify crimes against humanity. this tpoic is Islam and Judaism.

All these racists who commit there crimes are usually disguised as members of organizations, governments or simply as practitioners of the Muslim Christian or Jewish faiths.

It has not been a surprise how the pioneers of racism who made there records in the Talmud's became the question for Morganstine here to demonstrate if he is not a racist, apparently he is for he knows how to avoid the very question everyone asks about the TALMUD, which is if he agrees to TALMUDIC texts stating Jews have the rights above the law over non jews.

So far, he did indeed refer to arabs (arab jews as well) as prime suspects who carry out terrorism, but he also added that christianity came from judaism and his ideology about arabs or muslims have no history in these flocks as he himself called muslims arabs instead of seen the faiths rather then there ethnicity or culture, in simply words, he does not recognize ethnic Jews as Jews, which they originally all where (muslims and jews) that simple, he is racist and claims he is not while yet doing it.

So there are no word battles here, it simple, he is been racist about non Jews, and doing everything racist do about it by avoiding the question.

Which again is: Does he believe jews have the rights above the law over non Jews? It is certainly this way in Israel today.

G4-450

Sep 23, 2005, 04:22 AM

Why try to pass of the acadmic work of another as your own?

Check this: www.mideastweb.org/jewreligion.htm

Is it plagiarism or coincidence? Whatever it is, it explains why you cannot respond to questions.

I am Unmasked!

MORGANITE

. :)

Morganite, you still did not respond to a simple question which of course reflects every single thing you accuses others of, and you only indicated anti semiticism by clearly expressing human trend beliefs as if there are no arab Jews in the world and should not be when they all where once just semitic peoples (arabs).

You continue to reverse everything your doing on others which clearly shows the trickery of a pathological liar and the biblical Satan.

Take some advise from me, when I told you I expected more hurricanes you made accusations then, but is it happening?

RITA is here now.

God knows well who is speaking from biblical education with the lessons and evidence of his signs and God also knows well who is a idol worshiper, self righteous slave and a liar as well seeking to misguide others with false hopes and trickery.

So I also predict terrible things to people who lie about God and say he is only the God of Israel and the Jews. and what God created Jews that could not create the rest of humanity Morganstien?

You decide who you want on your side in this life or the hear after, you know well what I am saying, and even if you get passed people in this life I know your going to have to deal with the truth in the hear after like Noa, Moses and Jesus spoke about.

One thing for sure is that you refuse to comment on the talmud and the human trend of racism at its extremist. that your to proud to lie about .

And by the way the links you posted have been debated and presented, especially the anti christ anti jesus Talmudic sayings which jews claim they where talking about another Jesus and mother Mary who had a son with out a father who they called a Harlot aka whore.

Again also with the claims that its anti semitic to ask when Hebrew again was not at all a spoken compleate language until 1945, please prove it if I am wrong rather then using false historical lies christians do not understand because allot do not look at the old testament, aka TORAH.

And I will tell you what is anti Semitic, its when white Jews claim ethic Jews are converts or impostors while yet claiming they are from the middle east to christians using the jesus figure as a European image. did yo know that there are arab jews and Israeli muslims as well?

Nice try though for a liar in disguised as a non jew like you with the softy touch. you have to be RACIST to support the anti semitics of the Talmud and allthe reverse blame games about it after has been clearly presented to you. BAD un semitic Jew you are.