I don't think she would respond well to this, but I have never directly asked "how about we try XXXX", since her overall attitude suggests she would object.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
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I don't think she would respond well to this, but I have never directly asked "how about we try XXXX", since her overall attitude suggests she would object.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I'm not saying "Suggest to her so-and-so." I'm wondering how she's accepting what you do (thus the counseling with both of you in the room). I've been kissed by a few guys, and kissing technique varies from soup to nuts. I never wanted to kiss some of them ever again Others I would have kissed 24/7.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneDude79
It means that you're an adult with a lot of questions about how to handle your sex life with your wife - looking quickly it looks like 27 times in less than 12 hours. Don't you work?
Very often people post because they get a thrill out of it.
A counseling session is 50 minutes once or twice a week.
Yes, I work. I also have a lot of time on hold on the phone at work when I post.Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
Ok... but I'm not sure how many ways one can vary their technique in one sexual position. I am still not sure what you mean by her "accepting what I do" unless you mean I could be better at missionary or at kissing her, etc. She isn't a particularly great kisser, either, and I *have* tried varying that. She doesn't seem to get into it and backs off after 10-20 seconds most times. Always has. She says I kiss fine and my breath is fine, etc. She never says anything is "good" or "great" just "fine".Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Foreplay? Afterwards?
Possibly. Foreplay is basically me doing things to her... massages, kissing, etc. Lately she doesn't seem interested in much else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
After usually consists lately of getting the crying baby out of his crib. His timing [ed.] has been impeccable, haha.
Perhaps it's the pressure of knowing I expect sex. Although I give her plenty of romance and sensuality without expecting or asking for sex.
The two week thing might work.
Damn autocorrect on my Android changed "timing" to "uninterested" in my last post for some reason.
Foreplay takes place beginning at least 8 hours before sex and involves you playing with her mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneDude79
Do what you do, but don't end up having sex.
I admit I don't know much about all day foreplay, it seems to basically fall into either sexting or things like coming up behind her, giving a hug and quick massage, then moving on and doing something similar later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Sexting? She would either think I am nuts, or be annoyed. Maybe... and air stress MAYBE, mild non explicitly innocent texting may work, and no sex afterward, but I don't know.
We did mild stuff that when we first met in 2007.
I do make sure to do the other stuff, like come up and gently rub her neck at various times of the day, do some housework, etc. but its all routine.
You need to read up on how a woman's mind works. Sexting isn't one of the ways. Library. 612.6.
Well that was what the first few Google searches for "all day foreplay" turned up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I'll try your suggestion.
You do have a library card?
Yes I do. I am already thinking about where to hide the book. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Or books.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneDude79
Why hide them?
How will I explain why I have them if I am trying NOT to bring up sex for two weeks?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Reading a book isn't bringing up sex. In fact, you may want to read parts of it to her or ask her if such and such is really true.
Start with this one --
Title: Why men want sex and women need love : unraveling the simple truth /
Author(s): Pease, Barbara. Pease, Allan.
Publication: New York, NY : Broadway Books,
Year: 2009
Description: xi, 265 p. : ill. ; 21 cm.
Language: English
Contents: Sex on the brain -- Straight talk on sex and love -- What women really want -- What men really want -- Wanted: meaningful overnight relationship - casual sex -- Your place or mine? Affairs and cheating -- How to find the right partner(s) - the mating rating quiz -- Fifteen mysteries about men that women don't understand -- Twelve truths about women most men don't know -- Thirteen tactics that can improve your mating rating -- A happier future together?
Standard No: ISBN: 9780307591593; 030759159X LCCN: 2009-48565
Abstract: Will men and women ever see eye-to-eye about love and sex? How will relationships ever be rewarding if men only want to rush into bed and women want to rush to the altar? In this practical, witty and down-to-earth guide, couples experts Allan and Barbara Pease reveal the truth about how men and women can really get along. By translating science and cutting edge research into a powerful yet highly entertaining read, you'll learn how to find true happiness and compatibility with the opposite sex.
SUBJECT(S)
Descriptor: Sexual attraction. Interpersonal relations.
Note(s): Includes bibliographical references (p. [259]-265).
Class Descriptors: LC: BF692; Dewey: 302
Responsibility: Barbara & Allan Pease.
Vendor Info: YBP Library Services Brodart (YANK BROD) $14.99
Document Type: Book
Entry: 20091120
Update: 20120301
Accession No: OCLC: 419797074
Database: WorldCat
If your library doesn't own it, print out that WorldCat citation and be sure to mention the OCLC number at the bottom. Ask for an interlibrary loan.
OK, thanks Wondergirl. I truly do appreciate it!
I'm not sure how she'll react though... it seems that when I do anything that shows I am less than confident about myself or our relationship, it has a negative effect albeit a mild one--we never fight at all, sometimes have mild disagreements but never fight.
Read the book, don't hide it, tell her your online librarian recommended it, and go from there.
As a side note, and this might be somewhat relevant.
A couple posters mentioned this might be MY problem. Let me give you a quick history.
I couldn't get a date in high school to SAVE MY LIFE. At first, it was being too quiet, introverted, and lacking confidence.
Eventually I opened up some, but was still not "cool" - I knew it, I was odd looking, not part of the cool crowd, etc. I tried pretending to be confident but it didn't work, I think it just looked ridiculous, so girls either shot me down outright or "friend zoned" me. Aside from a girl I did some decent kissing with at 16, there wasn't much experience in the sexual or romantic arena.
In college I did a little better - finally at age 20 I had some sexual experience, fooled around, did some oral sex and manual stimulation with this one girl.
First long-term girlfriend was at age 22, she was 19 and more experienced. She said that she wished I could last longer with penetration but since I was good at oral and foreplay it worked out OK.
Second long term girlfriend ('01 - 03) belittled me all the time, even claimed her orgasms were never real (despite her turning red in the face and shaking her legs when she climaxed, something very hard to fake) and said I sucked in bed and was a "minute man". Despite the fact I could last a lot longer with her on top, she insisted that it was my problem and not her problem if I couldn't "use my d**k properly*.
Between here and girlfriend #3 I had a one night stand with a 41 year old woman that was something of a 19 second disaster if you get my drift.
Third long-term, ('03 - '05) we did everything but vaginal or anal sex. Otherwise seemed to do very well sexually, but had serious differences in lifestyle and values so it was doomed from the start.
My wife was my fourth long-term relationship. We started dating in '06.
All this history notwithstanding, I will take your suggestions and try them.
I like you :) (anybody who writes and spells as well as you do must be okay) and look forward to hearing more from you. I hope your library has this book on shelf.
I will keep you posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
And for what its worth, in my 30s I finally feel pretty confident and happy in most aspects of life... just working on this part a little bit.
You're asking good questions and have come to a good site for input from some really great people. You'll be a winner in the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneDude79
First off, let me say that I AM taking your advice and Wondergirl's as well. I will not ask my wife for the time being about her satisfaction.Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
What I didn't point out yesterday, is that the issue with me, and probably the men you were with, was usage of the word "fine". Not "good" or "great" but "fine". I'm not saying I will continue to pester her with the question. I'm just explaining why I, and probably the men who you experienced this with, were not satisfied with the answer of "fine".
Fine can have a very positive meaning, such as "fine art" or "fine dining", or "that guy/girl is fine" (as in hot, attractive, etc).
Fine also can mean "adequate" or "Just OK" or maybe a little better than "mediocre".
In this context we would assume "fine" means "not bad enough to complain but not that great either".
If your friend went to a five-star restaurant 60 miles away, and you asked her how it was, and she said "great" - you might be likely to make the drive out there one night for dinner. If she said it was "fine" - you probably would be more hesitant. If she said "fine" that would imply that yeah, it tasted decent, and was edible, and certainly not "bad" but wasn't good enough to be called "good" or "great".
If you ask me how my day was and I say "fine" that means it was normal, average, neither bad nor great. Perhaps a little more on the side of good than bad, but not good enough to say "good".
So, if a woman tells a man the sex is "fine"... well, that leaves room for improvement, doesn't it? No man wants to be told he is "adequate" or "OK" or "average" in bed. We want to be great, excellent, etc. We, well, I (I can't really speak for other men) don't want to be lied to, either, hence my next point.
I understand not every woman is going to have her "head to spin around like I was possessed" every time as you say, but if it were GOOD sex, wouldn't you/she say
"it was GOOD" rather than "it was FINE"?
Fine just sounds so mediocre.
Now... if it's a situation where for her (and you in your case) it will never or rarely be better than "fine" no matter what her partner does, and no previous partner has been able to do better than "fine" either, well, shouldn't her partner be allowed to have this information, so as to understand that maybe there isn't much else he or anyone else can do?
Or maybe fine does mean "fine" in the other definition, but I doubt it, since in that context in other situations such as the examples I gave, it doesn't generally mean that.
Why do you have to be rated on your performance? You mentioned something earlier about women who are unsatisfied tend to stray. Is that a concern?Quote:
Originally Posted by OneDude79
For her, probably not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I just don't like the thought that I'm mediocre and she's never going to attempt to allow me to get better. I'm not saying that I am. But the word "fine" doesn't conjure up images if a highly satisfied wife. "Good" might. "Great" might. "Fine" no.
Either she doesn't care because sex doesn't matter much, or she doesn't get much pleasure out of it with anyone at any time, or she is actually having an amazing time but just doesn't show her enthusiasm.
In most areas of life she is low key. She's not passionate or emotional much one way. I mean she is pleasant, has moods like anyone, and is a happy person, she's just not the "OH MY GOD I AM SO EXCITED" type for most things except sometimes vacations or fun trips, things for the kids, etc. She also is not the "OH MY GOD I AM SO PISSED" type if she is mad. She rarely yells in anger or shreiks in excitement.
In other words, she is mild-mannered. So, it might be this that is part of how she reacts during sex, she's enjoying herself just fine and that's just how she expresses it.
However, most women I know/know of who aren't all that into the sex itself, at least enjoy kissing, making out, the foreplay stuff. She just kind of lays there. She doesn't even seem to like kissing.
So either it's me, or, this is just how she is, but she's perfectly happy with it and me, and I need to just accept it. Accepting it is fine as long as I can be assured that it's not something she is secretly hoping I can improve.
As far as at least getting her more in the mood and receptive to sex and intimacy, I am going to the library today and trying your other ideas. :)
Do you know her ethnic heritage? What is yours?
We're both White Americans of Italian/Irish and some German ancestry. Our ethnic backgrounds are smiliar but I have more Italian than she does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Why, by the way?Quote:
Originally Posted by OneDude79
What do you know about her issues with Depression? Do you know what caused them and what she did to get help? Did she get help? Is she on any medications?Quote:
Originally Posted by OneDude79
My concern is that she may still be dealing with Depression. If everything is 'fine' to her and she doesn't show a much emotion, she may be putting a wall between herself and life. Many people suffering from Depression lead what others may see as 'normal' lives, but are they are going through the motions.
The problem may not be as simple as 'getting her in the mood'. She may need someone she can talk to who is professionally trained to listen and guide her through getting help.
She was on medication and therapy about 10 years ago and came out of it. I have told her that I'm concerned she might slip back in and she appreciates the concern, and says she worries too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat1864
However, to a point she's been this way as long as I've known her. Even when sex was more frequent, she still was rather, let's say, "unenthusiastic" in bed. Part of that might well just be her personality.
If she does need meds again, at least I'll know why she has no libido... since those things kill whatever is left.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat1864
Again - I can deal with that. I want to make sure she is happy, healthy, and satisfied. :)
During my grad studies in psychology, I took a class that emphasized ethnic sensibilities and emotions. Groups that are from a Mediterranean ethnic heritage (Italian, Spanish, French, Greek, Northern African) tend to be more emotional, whereas people with a Northern European ethnic heritage tend to be more stolid and pragmatic. I'm 100% German and remember my recent ancestors and parents were quite emotionless and detached, as I tend to be, probably as learned characteristics as well as somewhere in my genes.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneDude79
I don't remember ever raving about a kissing session with someone or being asked by him to rate it. If he had asked me to rate it, I would probably have taken that as a joke. The very fact that I continued to date him and allow him to kiss me seemed to me (and should have indicated to him) like he was pretty high up on my rating scale. Had he pressed me for a rating, I probably would have moved on, thinking he was needy. If he didn't rate well on my kissing scale, I didn't go out with him again.
OK, I see what you're saying. When you kiss do you just kind of sit there and not really move your lips much, and back off after less than 20 seconds?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I wish there was an "edit" feature here. Anyway, that's what she does. There is no passion.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneDude79
She does have more northern European and Central European in her blood than I do.
OK, well let me ask more specifically. Did you at least think TO YOURSELF that the guy was good or bad at kissing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
She's with me after all this time, obviously I'm "good enough" to meet her standards in that area.
That's another good reason to find a counselor -- counseling for your concerns about her satisfaction with you but also (a different counselor) for her as to how she is dealing with life.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneDude79
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