Mom10:

I'm glad you found other mom's that are going through this, it really does help with the pain.

As hard as it is, at this point there in little you can do. I had my first appointment with a therapist this week trying to deal with this kind of pain. Honestly I believe the pain would be less if my son had died. I know that would be painful but it would have an "end" so to speak where this is an ongoing slow painful death to your heart and soul.

I don't know if your son has married a narcissistic person or not, who really does. I know what I've seen from my son as he's progressed into his 30's as well is that this behavior can develop or be learned from an outside influence.

In my case I guess my son has hated me since the day he took his first breath, and only came out with it when he found a partner he could team up with. He made sure his first wife hated me, he did the same with his second wife.

I swear I think he's wedding vows are "love, honor, and hate my mom with me...

Like you, my son has stopped having anything to do with his only sister, he says we are a "package deal" and I'm (his mom) no longer an "option" to him. An option!! Lord, I wish I had known all this time our relationship was optional!

As for the upcoming grandchild... I am so sorry you have this pain to deal with.

My mom helped me with the grandchild issue, she told me from experience that I shouldn't put too much into the grandchildren, cause when the grow up they seem to forget your phone number and address... lol.

Hope you find some comfort, and know that you are not alone in this, not even close! Go back and read my post on family bullies, I bet your son, and or his wife fit many of those.

Try and get some rest, cry when you need to and talk about it! Don't hold it in, it will eat you alive!

I went back and read your post on family bullies. It fits my situation to a "T". I do believe that bullies are narcissists, it's all about them. What I don't understand and maybe never will is did my son have these hateful feelings for his family all along or did teaming up with his now wife manifest it? When my son rages, he has no empathy for anyone and has a blank look in his eyes. I use to think we had a close relationship with each other but obviously I was wrong. I feel emotionally raped.
Both my son and daughter in law are highly educated yet seem so immature and insecure, otherwise, why do they act this way? My daughter in law sings the praises of her own family, talking about them constantly, however, they never seem interested in our lives. My son has become a Deacon in their church and goes to church every Sunday. He tells us we need to go to church more. I told him he needs to learn to walk the talk because the way he behaves towards his own family is not Christian like. Of course, whenever I challenge him or his wife, he goes off on a rage. He's called me unkind, cruel, scary, bypolar and unsupportive yet when I try to get examples from him about those accusations, he can't come up with anything. Through therapy I can no longer allow this verbal abuse to go on for my own sake. Through therapy I have gone from grieving as if my son died to now being mad. My husband, daughter and I do not deserve this pain. Both he and his wife are now spreading their venom to acquaintances of ours. It seems like my son and his wife are a lethal combination. I really appreciate being able to get my thoughts out. It's cheaper than a therapy session!

No you don't deserve it! Your case sounds exactly like mine and so many others mom's I talked to since this has happened to me. From what I've found out is the more you try, the more you bring things up feeds and waters the monster!

I don't know where it all comes from nor why I just know it happens. My son's wife sent me the evil email that recounted stuff from my son's childhood, age 5 or so, and what she spewed was not "exactly" how is was but rather my son's version of how he wanted his wife to see it.

In my case, I feel that my son thinks he can get someone to love him, if they pity him enough. He tells some sob story to get attention then his wife for instance feels sorry for him and takes him in under her wing to nurture and protect from the big bad mommy. At this point they become a team and their relationship becomes based on hating mom. Don't mean to make you feel worse but chances are very good this marriage won't last, but never fear if he's like my son he will find another person to "love" pity him and round and round it goes.

I don't understand why any person would want their mate to HATE their mom, dad or any other family member. That's what I don't get. Wouldn't you want your spouse to like your family?

Again in my case it's been a very hard road to stop the brooding, crying and searching the internet for help. What you have to do is take care of yourself. Do what you have to in order for your heart to heal, and Do Not Feed The Bears!

I understand your frustration when they are spewing their accusations throughout the family. I'm a bit gun shy about that as well. Like now I really don't want my daughter to have anything to do with her brother since I see that it's his goal in life to make as many people hate me as possible. (It's how the "Bears" get their validation) I know that sounds terrible and I hate to admit that.

So far I've found that everything they (your son) is throwing at you is what they are hating about themselves. That doesn't help ease the pain much, but it's true.

I know you would love to let loose on them and give the a very large and very long piece of your mind, but again, abusers such as these will only use that as ammunition. It will become the current loaded gun, when the one they are using is out of ammo. Again, Do Not Feed The Bears!

You might get some comfort in knowing that one day soon he will be walking in your shoes! With any luck they will have a little boy, maybe four and will have coming to them exactly what you are receiving right now, only more of it! Take some comfort in knowing that their Hell is just beginning!

As you can see I'm still bitter and angry but at least at this point I'm sleeping.

Good luck to you and keep posting. The more you talk about it, the more you work through it.

You might get some comfort in knowing that one day soon he will be walking in your shoes! With any luck they will have a little boy, maybe four and will have coming to them exactly what you are receiving right now, only more of it! Take some comfort in knowing that their Hell is just beginning!

As you can see I'm still bitter and angry but at least at this point I'm sleeping.

Good luck to you and keep posting. The more you talk about it, the more you work through it.[/QUOTE]

I could understand everything that you wrote and agreed with most of it. The only thing that bothered me was the statement about getting comfort from your son suffering. You know how painful it is to be rejected by your child. How could you want this for anyone else, especially someone that you love? You admit that you are bitter and angry. So maybe this is clouding you thoughts. I pray that you release all the negative emotions, and find your peace within you. For your son, there is negative emotions in him too. Sounds like he doe not feel good enough about himself, doesn't think a woman can love him unless he has some sort of "hook" to real them in. Also gets a thrill from drama.
He feeds on it and seems to have found someone who thinks just like he does.

If you take comfort in looking forward to your son suffering the same way he has made you suffer you are in luck. You won't have to wait. He is suffering right now or he wouldn't be acting this way. It may not be your fault at all, but he is not a happy person in his core. You can't have a happy soul and be cruel and carry hatred at the same time.
I hope you both find peace and forgiveness.

Momo- it truly breaks my heart for you. I too thought I would never see my beautiful grandchild, although my situation was a little bit different than yours. But it really hurts. I too could not understand why my son was so hateful of me and blamed me for every little thing he thought was wrong with his childhood and his life. After our entire incident, I met him across the street at Walgreens, and his last words to me were- "call me when you get rid of that piece of ****" meaning his stepfather. Time has a way of working things out, and I truly believe that everything in life does happen for a reason. Sometimes it is very hard to understand. In my case, my son was 24 and living under my roof with a girlfriend and no job. The reason part in our case was that he needed to get out of my house and be on his own and be responsible for his life. In your case- is there any way at all that you can talk to your son- heart to heart- just the two of you? No matter what happens, he is still your son. And you are still his mother- the person who I am sure has been with him through thick and thin- always been there for him- am I right? It will take a lot of time I am sure- in my case it took a year- but if you keep trying to get through, I'm sure you eventually will. I NEVER gave up- and I know how hard it is. We love our kids and want to be there and help- but sometimes they make it very difficult. Sometimes they don't see how much we hurt and worry. I truly believe that in time he will come around. As hard as my son can sometimes act, I know there is compassion there- because a lot of it is just that- an act. -and after a while, when left on their own, they do think about it. But you need to try to talk to him on his own without her in the picture. In the meantime, do what I did- e-mail him, let him know how much you love him- and pray. Don't ever give up.

Hi Momo- I'm sorry I just answered you under my daughter's name- Angel Star without realizing. (she just walked in here and called me computer stupid, and I guess she's right) Anyway, I am under the name ksatagaj if you would like to e-mail me or just reply. I really hope you can resolve your issues with your son. It's a lot of hard work and sleepless nights, but if you can just find a way to talk to each other, I'm sure it will all work out in the end. You might not get to see him until after the baby is born, but believe me- having a baby does have a way of changing and maturing people. I did not get to meet my grandson till he was 3 months old- but I DID get to meet him is the part that has me awestruck every time I look at that beautiful face- or get to hug and kiss my son. And he still has some growing up to do of his own- but he has come such a long way that I am truly amazed by the changes ! He is on his way home now from Arizona for his son's first birthday and even though I know he is having a lot of problems, he has never once asked for a dime from me- far cry from the old days when I almost went broke trying to help him out. The bottom line is, I truly believe the same thing can happen for the two of you. If you try to reach out, and he still wants nothing to do with you, and least you will know in your heart that you tried- all you can do is give him time. He will come back. I will pray for you.:D

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts and prayers. I have been wondering if adult "Mom Haters" come from a 2 parent household or one? If there are two parents, does the son lash out at your husband and any siblings or just the Mom? My son has been raging at me exclusively since before he got married but really came to a head last Christmas. My husband and I celebrated our 40th anniversary in Maui Hawaii and took our daughter, son and daughter in law along. Nice family vacation right? It was a nightmare. My son started raging on his sister the moment we got there because she drove too fast (not true). He raged on the Tiki Terrace at our resort, again on the beach, in a parking lot coming back from dinner and again in our hotel room. During the whole trip they kept to themselves and didn't join in as a family until we all ate dinner together. Both acted like two spoiled brats and cannot tell you how embarrassed I was in public with my son raging. All I know is I wished we never invited them. No thanks for the trip, nothing. While raging, I asked them why they came when they obviously didn't want to be there. Their answer was they were still hurting from their previous miscarriage (not owning up to their bad behavior).
His Dad and I have tried several times to reach out to him via phone, email. Emails go unansered and after asking him what we can do to get our relationship back on track, he starts in raging again until we tell him we have to hang up. It's all so abusive!
My husband and daughter are fed up as well they should be. As far as I'm concerned, he is going to have to make the next move because we've had it up to here. I'm in my angry mode now after grieving for him. My therapist said I should be angry and also reinterated not to give him anymore information as he will use it against us. I just wish I can stop thinking of him 24-7.

The first thing that comes to mind is spoiled brat, married to another spoiled brat. AND I wouldn't doubt if they were having marital problems, Sounds like two very unhappy people or they wouldn't be in such a foul mood. Lay it out for him. We love you, we've been gracious and generous to you, we've extended our heart to you only to be treated with contempt. There is nothing you could do that would make us not love you. On the other hand , until you can treat us with the same dignity and respect we show you, we don't have anything to discuss.

When he rages to you on the phone, exactly what is his beef? What is he saying? Has he always had anger problems?

There is nothing YOU can do to get your relationship back on track. That is because YOU didn't get it off tract. Unless you can think of, or he tells you about some grievance that you aren't aware of.

Take comfort that you have done what you can. Pray that he finds his way to peace and to you and your husband. Ask for comfort and a peaceful acceptance of the situation as it stands. Think of him 24/7 . But think of him while praying for him. A person that is happy and content with their existence doesn't act this way.

This is why it is so baffling to us. Our son was always, fun, loving, respectful and appreciative. I would never have called him spoiled. All of this rage started soon after meeting his wife. His rages usually include: you don't love my wife, you're mean to her, you owe her an apology, "I don't remember you fixing breakfast for me when I was growing up" (I don't know where that one came from, I always did), he raged about the place we had the rehearsal dinner (Golf Club--very nice) because we didn't get his fiance's permission first (she was out of town at the time), his newest rage is he never wanted the engagement party we gave him when he was engaged by inviting her immediate family and his best friends who were standing up with him at the wedding, I'm a quilter and made my new daughter in law a quilt (his request) but now he says I only do that to show off. We did whatever was asked of us for the wedding and then some. We have treated our daughter in law with respect and kindness so I have never been able to figure out where all this is coming from. That's why I think my therapist may have hit on her being the manipulative one. I think she's very insecure and immature and can almost hear her saying to my son "your parents don't love me".. I think she feeds him her insecurities and I think he thinks he's being a supportive husband by ripping into us. I agree with you, I don't think he's happy but he would never admit it... it's easier to shift the blame on us. It's hard to say this but I wish they weren't bringing a child into the world right now.

I think you hit the nail on the head! Your daughter in law is very insecure and immature. All you can do unfortunately is to give this one time. My husband told me that before we met he had a girlfriend who wanted to be with him all the time- so much in fact that my mother-in law said she didn't even want him to be away from her to go to work ! And she used to get very jealous when he spent time with his friends- even if she was there- she would pout. That is what this sounds like- she is jealous of his family. Maybe he will see this in time. How long have they been married? And as far as bringing a child into the world, maybe it will change things- I know my son seemed to grow up quite a lot when he became a father. He still has quite a bit of growing up to do, but at least now he seems to be taking a bit more responsibility- and watching him with his son-----such love on his face! Things do seem to have a way of working out. Maybe you could talk to him by himself and get him to open up. If not, then maybe you just need to leave him alone- he will come to realize. Being a parent is one of the toughest jobs in the world, and he will find out for himself. He will come to you when he needs you. When my son and I were having problems, everyone told me the same thing, but I did not believe it. I know how stubborn he is. But in the end, he did make the first move. And I as always- was there. Let him know you are there for him, but until he can speak to you in a mature and civil way, he is on his own!

I knew it. The marriage is "teetering" and his unhappiness plus wife's criticism/insecurities/immaturity/selfishness is fueling the fire. You have heard that people sometimes take their frustrations out on the safest target.
That is people who will love them no matter what. I bet that is what your son is doing to you. Whatever you do, don't set up any sort of tuggle war with daughter-in-law. Kill her with kindness. She will either mature eventually or burn herself out. You on the other hand will have maintained your dignity, fairness, and gracious manner. Son WILL find his way back. I really believe that and will say a prayer for all of you.

I am so sorry this sounds horrible. It does not sound like you should go to him because, he has some rage for some reason and sounds like he is taking it out on you. I think you need to give him space to deal with whatever he is going through. I think that you should send him an email telling him how much you love him and his family and that you wish you could be more of a part of there life. Tell him you will always love him and be there if he ever decides to change his mind. Tell him you will miss them all but, you can't make him change his mind. Then just say you will miss them if he ever wants to try to work through what he is upset about then you will be there but, other than that you will give him the space he requests. After that just send them cards on the Holidays. He will probably come around on his own.

Good luck,
Michelle

They will be married 3 yrs this July. My therapist thinks that she is one of those that wants him all to herself. He thinks we were doomed from the beginning. First his dogs came to live with us, then didn't invite my daughter in their wedding. Therapist thinks that was a very concise move on her part to start eliminating his family. Now, we are out of their lives and the therapist thinks his long time friends will probably be next. From what we've heard from some of his friends is that he has changed. These friends have been together since middle school, through college and marriages.
My daughter in law has a very strong pull towards her own family. They are all she talks about to us. Sometimes I wonder if her grandiose thoughts of her family is more of a fantasy of how they really are or if it's how she wishes it to be. Her family seems very nice but who really knows what goes on behind closed doors? Like I said in my earlier post, we only met with her about 3 times before they married so I can't say we really knew her. We were happy for our son to have found someone he loved. We thought she was perfect for our son and she put on a good front but I'm really questionning her now. Since my therapist brought up the possibility of her being the manipulative one, it seems to fit what has been going on with our son.

I know this is a late response but sweetie listen. You are still his Mother and he needs to respect this (Exdous 20:12 Honor your father and mother so that you may live long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you) There is a time when you have to let things go and put them in God's hand, and this is a time to do it. You can't change the way he feels, but God can. Each day he is disrespecting you, he is shorten his days. Call to see the kids from time to time or even go over, (they are your grandkids) but as soon as he starts to curse and fuss, ask can the kids go with you or cut the visit short and let him know you are taking it anymore. I am in deep prayer for you and I hope this work out for the best. Just let go and let GOD!!

Your friend in christ!!

No, I haven't been having trouble with the site. Just a lot of things going on personally. I did go back to therapy for a tune-up last week. I go back now and then whenever I'm having a hard time adjusting to our son dropping out of our lives. I've gone through so many emotions and now I feel I am working through it but it still hurts. I am thankful that he was in our lives for 33 years before meeting his wife, so I'm grateful for that. They are having a baby Sept. 1st but we don't have any hopes of being in our 1st Granchild's life. I'm trying to look towards the future without him but you know, it's like he died and I need to go on.

I REALLY feel for you! This could have been written by me last year. It IS hard- you feel like you will not get through it. But you know what ? You WILL get through it! It is not easy- there is not much you can do but give it time. In my case, I just e-mailed my son almost every day. I started by writing to him- every single thing I wrote he or his girlfriend managed to take wrong and twist my words. Or I went to his job- also pointless. What I am trying to say is you can do everything you think might help you get back together and talk things through, but ultimately, your son has to be the one to come to you. It took a year in my case- and to this day still don't know what made him pick up the phone, and really don't care- the point is he did. And none of us really talk about it- the past is the past. I pray for you that one day your son will see through what games his wife is playing and you can both move on. I think that maybe one of the things that did get to my son was my asking him 1. How long he was going to punish me? 2. How can you not let me be part of my grandson's life ? Not fair to him either (my grandson). I know it is not what you want to hear- I wish there was a quick, easy solution to end all the problems with our kids, but all you can do is give it time. With time hopefully he will come to see that his wife is part of the problem. Family is the most important thing in the world- and by wedging herself in between you and him, she will end up by driving him away. They will argue, and the whole family thing inevitably will come up- and maybe then he will begin to see things for himself. My heart goes out to you- it was one short year ago that I went through pretty much the same thing, and I know how lonely it is- and if you have done everything for your kids and loved them and been there for them (as all mothers who love their children do)- there is nothing you can do but know he will be back when he is ready. And I know that day will come. Keep me posted. I will pray for you.

I think you just saved me. Seriously, I was wondering if anyone was going threw what I am now. You words gave me some hope and a few clues on how to start dealing with my son.

It's late and I just took a sleeping pill so I will be brief but to the point.

My 20 y/o son has been lying to me and our family for a few years now. Only the lies crossed any decency lines I thought we had. Just in the past two months he and his new wife have borrowed 2700.00 because they were about to be evicted. I had to call the manager and make sure that wasn't a lie. They both have jobs and shouldn't be in trouble but they blow their money I know they do. It's that the lies are huge and small and just one lie after the other. Now his new wife has started lying to me too. We are going out to visit them soon; but your right I need to treat myself like a friend. I need to start saying no and meaning it. My story is complex and so sad that if I tell it I will begin to cry again and I just can't cry anymore. He is accusing his half sister of molesting him and she has not been the most honest person either. In short either of them could be lying. After visiting my son and his wife we have to go to her wedding and this whole molesting issue has not been resolved. Yet I am doing everything in my power to try to make time on our vacation for just me and my husband. Who wants to get cheap hotel rooms and do the cut rate vacation. He is just cheap sometimes; and this is one time he should dish out the cash for a decent night sleep, and a nice time for both of us. So now I have been angry with what seems like the whole family. Honest I have seriously thought about going back to school and starting a whole new life for myself and leaving the lot of them behind. I have been loving and caring and been there for each of them. This mess however pushed me past my limits and I let them all know how angry I was. Now they all are really mad at me; and I don't think I care. Your letter shows me that it is OK to take care of me so thank you for that. I don't know what I will do but I think going back to school is something that I really must do now. I always thought it was going to be for the betterment of the whole family now I see it might be needed just for me. I love them but I don't like them right now. Not sure this will ever be OK. So I pray and hope.
Mainly I just wish I would wake up from this nightmare. Life was pretty decent a few months ago. Now it's just garbage.