[F]My friend and I had a debate about Heaven. She believed it was a physical place with a ground and a sky and human forms are walking around and doing things. I believe it is a state of being where my spirit is in the presence of God and having an understanding of all that I never understood before. There will never be pain or sorrow and there will be an eternity of love, light and warmth. The Bible speaks of streets of gold, etc. but that doesn't do a thing for me. I don't believe it is a "space". I'm interested in what other people think.[F]

We are told that our bodies will rise and be made anew, if that is not physcial I don't know what could be. And in the end if what the bible tells you about heaven does not do a thing for you, nothing I can say would either.

Are you saying everything is literal? What are our bodies doing? Our favorite hobby? Are we all up there in this big mob with everyone who has ever gone before us. Are we just standing around feeling peace. I've always heard that you are reunited with your loved ones. Is this also literal? What if your spouse were waiting on you, but you weren't that crazy about each other in the end anyway. I can't imagine a "heaven" without my children, but it would be our souls that were reunited because God knows this would be necessary for my eternal peace and happiness. What age is the body that is risen and made anew? The age at the time of death? Infancy? When we were at our best? What if you were cremated or you died in a plane crash or explosion that left you without a body?l What are we wearing? White flow-ey gowns? PLEASE believe me, I am not trying to sound like a smart a--. It's just that I think that if we are going to be literal, we have to do it all the way.

Absolutely Heaven is a literal, physical place. When we die our spirit goes to where ever it goes. When Jesus comes back, it says that the dead will rise. This is talking about their bodies because those who went to Heaven are already there. We are predestined to be conformed to the image of the Son. Our bodies will be made new... perfect. When Jesus died on the cross it said He cried out and gave up the Spirit. Yet they entombed His physical body. But three days later when they opened the tomb His body was gone. Jesus is now in heaven His body and Spirit together in perfection.

As to what we will look like. I believe we will look like we do now. We will have our bodies, but they will be made perfect. As to the age... the Bible doesn't say what age, but we can make a good guess by looking at Adam and Eve. Before Adam and Eve sinned Eden was paradise (heaven). They would not have ever died nor aged if they hadn't sinned. They would have remained as God created them. So I would say we can safely say we will be and look like an adult but our best shape ever... we will be perfect. Or look the age when we are in our best shape as humans. Some would say late twenties to 30.

Heaven is a physical place. You can't assume the descriptions of heaven in the Bible are symbolic in any way because how does 12 foundations made of different jewels have any symbology to a state of being? How does streets of gold and 12 gates to heaven made of pearl have any symbology to a state of being? How does the unmistakable statement that our bodies will rise and be made anew (perfect) have any symbology to a state of being? Heaven is absolutely a physical place and our bodies will also be physical but all will be perfect as it was meant to be... as it was with Adam and Eve before the sin.

Oh and let's not forget that the Bible clearly says this earth we are currently on will be our heaven... just as it was Adam and Eve's. It will go back to the way which God meant for it to be when He created all of it.

Cozyk... in regards to your comment to my post.

Do you think the almighty God would have any difficulty rising and perfecting bodies that have turned to ash or been destroyed?

God doesn't expect you to go heaven for the fancy surroundings. He expects your want for heaven is because you love Him and want to dwell with Him for eternity. That is the reward of heaven.. to be with God always. To see and physically interact with God and Jesus.

It's not that God is all about jewels, but it is more so about the beauty rather than "look what I have". Jewels to us are more about money, but that is not so in heaven. To me it's about the stature of King Jesus and the fact that we are promised to inhereit the Kingdom of God.

The Bible says the we we get rewarded with crowns and jewels for the work we do for God. But we will lay those jewels we receive at Jesus' feet. What good do they do us in perfection? So it's not about "look what I got", but rather, "These belong to you Jesus, even though they don't come close to repaying you. I received these rewards for my work on earth, but I did the work for you and so these rewards belong to you for what you did for me!"

Even though I know that no matter how many crowns I am rewarded, it will never be enough to repay Jesus for what He did for me. I still want to have too many to carry to lay at His feet to show Him how much work I did for Him all because of my gratitude for what He did for me!

The crowns and jewels mean nothing to me as far as wanting them for myself. But I want to do my absolute best to stay in God's will and do as He would have me do so that I get those rewards... not for myself... but to give Jesus. I am rewarded enough by God saving my soul and being able to share the Kingdom of God, with my Maker, my Saviour, my Comforter and my fellow lovers of God!

I could cry tears of joy right now just thinking about it. I can't wait to go!

I agree with you cozyk. Remember, feeling is the way your soul communicates with you while the illusion of this world persists. The soul is part of All, trust it.

Those who believe heaven is a physical place are merely following a different path to the same end.

I agree with you Cozyk. The thing that seems to drive humans is wanting to know everything. I think heaven is an entrance to understanding everything and in that moment--when we can see the perfect pattern of everything that God has created--knowing and understanding everything no longer means anything--there is just being a part of everything in that amazing pattern.

I also believe that there is no way we can comprehend what heaven will be like. We can only describe it in terms we understand now. I think that is what the Bible does (again just my opinion), describe heaven in terms the writers and the readers could understand. How could any human really put into words the place of God?

As for bodies--no I don't think we will have physical bodies. The physical is what keeps us from God now. It is our souls that will be free to be close to him, no longer held in by physical needs or wants.

Hmm--maybe our souls will be physical? Sorry, I talked myself way out of my depth here. I do have a limit on how much crazy speculation I will take up people's brain space with.

I agree with you that we cannot fully comphrehend what heaven will be like, but God's Word does give us some insight as to what it looks like and will be like.

Read Revelation Chapters 21 and 22. God sent an angel to show John some things about what our heaven will be like. John doesn't just describe the foundations, streets, walls and gates, but he even gives the measurements of the city (New Jerusalem). There is no reason for us to think Heaven will not but a physical place, but rather there is much description of a physical place.

I do have to disagree with you on the body thing. Our physical bodies do not keep us from God. It is sin that keeps us from God.

You must not forget that Adam and Eve's body was good in every way before they sinned. Eden was their paradise. Yet they had the physical bodies that we do. They were not in anyway separated from God or kept from Him. It was when they sinned that Spiritual death took place. Sin is the separation from God.

Besides that the Bible tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:35-44, 50-54 that our bodies will be made anew. Philippians 3:20 & 21 says that the Saviour, Jesus Christ will change our vile bodies and fashion them unto the likeness of His glorious body.

We can take from Luke 23:43 that our soul goes to heaven or hell when we die, because Jesus told the man who believed in Him, who was being crucified right beside Jesus, that today he would be with Jesus in paradise. I completely believe we go to where we are going when we die. Then we learn in Revelation that when Jesus steps out on the cloud (the rapture) the Bible clearly says, the dead in Christ shall rise first (this would be there bodies since their soul already dwells with Him), then those who are alive will meet them in the air. This is when Jesus will conform our bodies into the likeness of His body.

And if you need further proof that our actual bodies will be met with our souls then look at Jesus for an example. He was the last person who would have use for His body, yet His body rose from the grave on the third day. He didn't have a physical body like ours until He was born to Mary. He gave up the Ghost when He physically died, if His body wasn't meant to be resurrected with His Spirit then it would have remained in the tomb. The rising of Jesus body on the third day is not to be ignored!

Our bodies will be remade in the likeness of His glorious body? Wouldn't we all look exactly alike then?

I don't think we will all look alike. Like I stated in an above post we can't fully comprehend what we or heaven will be like. But God does tells us some about it, and through those things we can say for sure that heaven is a physical place, and our bodies will be resurrected with our souls.

To Moonlitwaves, I commend you on your knowledge of the Bible. My problem is that there is always a catch. Laying the jewels at the feet of Jesus. Isn't that just symbolic for saying."Thank you God SO MUCH for what you have done to allow my soul to be in YOUR presence and be at peace through eternity"

Who we really are is not our big feet, our hair length, skin color, crooked or straight teeth. The real essence of us is our emotions that seem to emit from our hearts. When you are happy, sad, jealous, or greedy, where do you feel it? For me, it is in my heart. There is so much symbolism in the Bible that I have to boil it down to the bottom line, my soul. If my soul is at peace, what else is needed?

Are you saying that there are a gazillion dead bodies just waiting around in limbo, for Jesus to return or appear, and at that point the cremated take human form again, the dead physically come up out of the ground, the drowned at sea and eaten by sharks put themselves back together,the living come to an abrupt stop from balancing their checkbook or what ever they were doing and we all float, or zoom or fly to a location? Since millions or souls are already there, were they incomplete? Did they not reap the rewards of heaven? Or were they doing just fine without a body but they need it now?

It may sound like I am being sarcastic but that is not my intent at all. And I would NEVER want to disrespect God. I love Him,it is my belief that He loves me, and that HE is my creator and the creator of the entire universe. I am just trying to get REAL. I am asking the hard questions and I welcome the knowledge of others.

It bothers me when I see pictures of Jesus. The fact is, there were no cameras, no paintings or drawings of him, and some artist has just made up an image and we take it as fact. The word gullible comes to mind. I am an individual thinker and I don't easily jump on the bandwagon of the masses without question.

Then there is the caveman. A scientifically proven entity. The first man. Did Adam and Eve look like that? Where did the names Adam and Eve come from? Who did Cain and Able have children with? Of all the races on this earth, which one is in the image of God?
Before Jesus died for our sins, what became of the souls of people that died? I really want to know.

Isn't sin often giving in to physical wants and needs--giving in to our weaker animal instincts instead of being as pure as our souls are capable of?

Why do you think this will look anything like the bodies we have now? Or bodies at all? Again God's word still has to be translated into a language we mere humans (not sarcastic) can understand) so how can we take it literally when there is so much we are absolutely incapable of understanding?


All of this can be explained again as Jesus and God needing to present the situation in terms we would could comprehend. He said he would rise again so he did. What other form could he present to his disciples that they would understand or believe. Doesn't mean he kept that body just because it disappeared--all of our bodies disappear eventually when we return to dust. Jesus didn't keep that body it resembled our "vile" bodies. "Glorious" could mean so many things. So can body for that matter. We have to stop thinking like humans.

I think that he allowed himself to be crucified is proof that he did not need the physical body--that we are more than physical bodies that need to eat and be clothed and have shelter, etc.

To CMM Good points. I also think we need to stop thinking like humans. Our bodies are the vessels that carry carry us through THIS planet. When we speak of rising from the grave and sitting at the right hand of God, we are thinking as humans. God is a spirit (my opinion)
And most Christians speak in terms of literal objects.

Christianity is the only religion that does not spell out what the afterlife reward is. That leaves people to do a lot of fantasizing about what Heaven is.

Jesus says that the Kingdom of Heaven is on earth. If people follow his teachings about how to deal with others and ourselves, we will be a long way toward peace and happiness TODAY. :) Heaven is now. :):):)

Some examples:

1. Don't return anger for anger.
2. Love your neighbor.
3. Don't worry.
4. Forgive, forgive, forgive.

What about Accept, Accept, Accept.

If we all did that, the other ideas would be not needed.
Religion and even atheism would be moot points.

You need to study the bible deeply to get the full understanding of it.. often things mentioned such as gold and silver or fire etc are symbolic. Rev 14:1 tells us an exact number going to heaven and Psa 37:29 tells us who will remain on earth. Also in John 8:23 Jesus stated that he came from a realm that is separate from man and that we are not from his "world". So heaven is a literal place surrounding earth where our creator and spirit creatures dwell. Guess I just confused you more Lol! ;)

[QUOTE=CMM_Kaleido]Isn't sin often giving in to physical wants and needs--giving in to our weaker animal instincts instead of being as pure as our souls are capable of?

As human beings, we have 2 parts, the human part and the being part. You always hear, "the flesh is weak." " Don't give into the flesh." That is when the HUMAN side of us gives into temptation, and the BEING part of us knows better. Our conscience, if you will. Or, the part of us that operates on a higher more honest and authentic level than our sinful selfish, shallow, egoic self. I believe that after you die, the "being" lives on. And BTW, lives in bliss!:o

I believe it to be a bit of both and beyond human comprehension.
The Bible says that we will have glorified bodies so we will not be simply spirit.
The Bible also says that the earth will never pass away and Jesus will come to Mt Zion (?)
So I believe that it will be a union between heaven and earth and we will be able to go back and forth. The Jehovah witnesses believe heaven is on earth so I believe it is a bit of a combination between what Christianity teaches with the JW earth. But I do not believe WE have to restore the earth to paradise like they teach.
And as Choux said I believe heaven is an extension of how we treated others in life.

This is how I see heaven basically
YouTube - Sandi Patty Another Time Another Place<----I don't know how much more awesome it can get than that!

[QUOTE=N0help4u]I believe it to be a bit of both and beyond human comprehension.
The Bible says that we will have glorified bodies so we will not be simply spirit.
The Bible also says that the earth will never pass away and Jesus will come to Mt Zion (?)
So I believe that it will be a union between heaven and earth and we will be able to go back and forth. The Jehovah witnesses believe heaven is on earth so I believe it is a bit of a combination between what Christianity teaches with the JW earth. But I do not believe WE have to restore the earth to paradise like they teach.
And as Choux said I believe heaven is an extension of how we treated others in life.

This is how I see heaven basically
YouTube - Sandi Patty Another Time Another Place<----I don't know how much more awesome it can get than that

Heb 12:22-24 "You have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jeruselum, and myriads of angels, in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all, and the spiritual lives of righteous who have been made perfect, and Jesus the mediator of a new covenant."

This heavenly city is also known as New Jeruselum as brought out in Rev 21:2 which tells us that it came DOWN out of heaven. So it is obviously not an earthly place but in a sense it is directing attention to the earth. This is when Jesus (the husband mentioned in this same scipture) as King and his associates (the bride) will begin operating his righteous government over mankind who will be helping to restore the earth back to the way God had originally intended it to be.

Isaiah 45:18 - He the Maker of the earth, the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited.:)