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    mothergoose's Avatar
    mothergoose Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Nov 14, 2007, 04:23 AM
    Child's passport renewal
    My friend's husband is American and their 2 children hold US passports. They have been going through separation/divorce proceedings in Europe for some time now. My friend discovered that on a recent trip to the States with the children, her husband managed to have one of the children's passports renewed without her consent. How can he have done this? How can she find out how he did it and what would be the penalty if he was found to have supplied false information?
    tickle's Avatar
    tickle Posts: 23,796, Reputation: 2674
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    #2

    Nov 14, 2007, 05:44 AM
    What would the false information have been ? It was only a passort renewal. Could be he had to have it done to get the child back to Europe and didn't want to attempt it on an expired passport. I don't see the point if she allowed him to have the children in the US with him, why is she complaining about the passport renewal?
    mothergoose's Avatar
    mothergoose Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Nov 14, 2007, 06:44 AM
    It is my understanding that legally either both parents must physically attend with the child to apply for the passport or, if that is not possible, the parent who cannot attend must provide a notarised letter of consent. The mother obviously did not attend and did not give consent, so how were the rules circumvented? It is an offence to flout these rules as they are there for very sound reasons for the protection of children.

    She is concerned that he managed to do this as she has fears that at some point he may abscond with the children and had intended not renewing their passports for the moment for this reason.
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    cjonline Posts: 217, Reputation: 19
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    #4

    Nov 14, 2007, 08:09 AM
    They weren't filing for the passport they were renewing it, I'm not sure the rules are the same or they aren't the same as far as adults go.

    What is disturbing me the most about your post is that the mother didn't want to renew the passports because she wasn't planning on sending the children to their father. Maybe I misread and the father only visits the US but lives there. Ok, but the mother doesn't get to say 'now that we are divorced the kids can't see your family in the US during your time with them when it was fine before.' If she has reason to believe he will take the children and she will never see them again she needs to speak up and take actions through the courts to stop that. Otherwise it looks like she is sneaking around. Did she ever tell the father that she wasn't going to renew the passports?
    mothergoose's Avatar
    mothergoose Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #5

    Nov 15, 2007, 06:31 AM
    The rules are the same for renewal of a child's passport. The father and mother both live in the same country but he took them to the States to visit his family. The mother was happy with this at the time. The situation has since changed hugely and at the moment she would not be happy to allow him to take them ouside the country. They are in the middle of separation proceedings during which this matter will be dealt with.
    It seems you are all missing the point here. There are rules regarding the issue of children's passports. They exist for the protection of children. Unless I am missing something here, these rules have somehow been circumvented.
    This man also filed for divorce in the US using his father's which is the same as his own, to "prove" he was resident there for the required 6 months prior to filing. His wife did not have the finances to contest the case from abroad but has an official affadavit from a US attorney stating that the husband committed fraud in his application. On foot of the divorce, he has remarried and is trying to wriggle out of his obglitations to her and the children.
    This passport thing is just another example of how devious and untrustworthy he can be and is a cause for concern to the mother.
    tickle's Avatar
    tickle Posts: 23,796, Reputation: 2674
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    #6

    Nov 15, 2007, 05:03 PM
    No, you are the one who is circumventing everything. Why can't this lady speak for herself and just get a good lawyer to get her children back and be at peace with the situation. I don't understand your involvement.

    Does she now have her children with her and new passports? Its like I said in another post, there are women's shelters everywhere if you are willing to look for them if you are in a disastrous situation. Is she too proud to do this to remove herself from this conflict ?
    mothergoose's Avatar
    mothergoose Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Nov 16, 2007, 03:19 AM
    Just a minute there. I came on here to ask a perfectly legitimate and simple question regarding the renewal of a child's passport. If you don't know the answer then don't reply. It is none of your business and is totally irrelevant why I am asking and what the circumstances are. It is a simple question with a simple answer.

    You have no understanding of the system in my jurisdiction regarding legal support or women's shelters. My friend is getting the best help she can afford and is doing her best to protect her children from the nasty mess she finds herself in. I am trying to help by gathering information on her behalf. Because there are several issues involving the US, the lawyers here don't always seem to be sure what to do so we are trying to do research ourselves.
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    mothergoose Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    Nov 16, 2007, 03:20 AM
    Comment on tickle's post
    Found this answer extremely aggressive, rude and showing a complete lack of understanding or compassion.
    tickle's Avatar
    tickle Posts: 23,796, Reputation: 2674
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    #9

    Nov 16, 2007, 04:46 AM
    Whether its none of by business or not and it doesn't matter as I don't know you from a hole in the ground anyway, the following information was achieved on line regarding your question and apparently if one parent is renewing a passport alone, then he/she must have a letter from the other parent who is not attending (note it doesn't say nortarized). How this chap acquired the renewal is in doubt as you state in your original post, you assume fraudulent activity. Then he must have forged his wife's signature or he could not have received the renewal.

    Child Passport Information

    Need a child's passport? Get ready to have your patience tested.

    Acquiring or renewing a child's passport is no walk in the park. Over the past few years, new requirements have been added in an effort to combat child abduction and trafficking. The new requirements mean more work for parents to acquire passports for their children. While guaranteeing the safety of children may be a worthy objective, it still means more work. To make it through the process without a hitch, start early and pay attention to details.

    The first thing you need to know is that any child under age 18 and both parents or legal guardians need to appear in person to apply. What do you do when a parent or legal guardian cannot appear? You must provide either written permission from the absent parent or guardian or some other documented explanation, such as proof of sole custody of the child, an adoption decree or the death certificate of a deceased parent. You can either provide you own letter or fill in the sample form letter available on the State Department Web site. Be sure to get the letter notarized.

    Is your child under age 14? If so, you need to provide both proof of citizenship and proof of relationship.

    Proof of citizenship can be established with a certified birth certificate. You can acquire this at the registrar's office of the state where your child was born. Be sure to get the "long form".

    Other documents that serve to prove citizenship are a previous fully valid U.S. passport, a Report of Birth Abroad, a Certification of Birth Abroad or a Certificate of Citizenship or Naturalization.

    While you can provide a previous U.S. passport as proof of citizenship, it is not accepted as proof of relationship. To prove the child's relationship to the applying partent(s) or guardian(s), you must submit one of the following.

    * Certified U.S. birth certificate (with parents' names); or
    * Certified Foreign Birth Certificate (with parents' names and translation, if necessary); or
    * Report of Birth Abroad (Form FS-240) (with parents' names); or
    * Certification of Birth Abroad ( Form DS-1350) (with parents' names); or
    * Adoption Decree ( with adopting parents' names); or
    * Court Order Establishing Custody; or
    * Court Order Establishing Guardianship.

    You also need to take with you photo ID such as your own passport or drivers license, Passport Application Form DS-11 filled out but not signed, two passport photos of each child and payment.
    mothergoose's Avatar
    mothergoose Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #10

    Nov 17, 2007, 10:45 AM
    Thanks, tickle. I'd just like to point out that it does say "be sure to get the letter notarized" at the end of paragraph 5. I had thought of the forgery option too, but I can't see how he could get a forged signature notarised without some help.
    He also seems to have had "help" from an attorney in applying for his divorce which was obtained by fraud. If we could prove a connection here we would have more leverage or a better chance of getting the divorce declared invalid so that proceedings could be done here, where they both reside. As it stands, it is virtually impossible to challenge it from abroad and the option of travelling to the States and hiring an attorney is simply not on for financial and logistical reasons. Hence all the internet investigation.
    tickle's Avatar
    tickle Posts: 23,796, Reputation: 2674
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    #11

    Nov 17, 2007, 11:06 AM
    He could not have gotten a forged signature notarized. The person who has written the letter has to sign it in front of a notary public and he notorizes that person's signature with his stamp.

    This cloak and dagger situation must be annoying. I can almost picture him as the master of disguise for heavens sake.
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    hlbro Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
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    #12

    Jan 27, 2008, 08:03 AM
    I actually came across this website looking for answers to the same thing as Mothergoose. She IS ASKING FOR AN ANSWER TO A QUESTION. NOT to get crappy remarks about what her friend should or should not have done. Have you ever been in this position? Do you know what it feels like to have your children taken and then have to deal with an expensive court case in another country? The frustration of dealing with the arroganc of a man who was the children because of dirty tactics? No you don't. So please there is enough negativity and when you are in a position like this you have to stay positive at all times and stay strong. So unless no one has anything helpful to say please refrain from posting anything. Mothergoose if you would like to contact me directly I am at [email protected]
    tickle's Avatar
    tickle Posts: 23,796, Reputation: 2674
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    #13

    Jan 27, 2008, 12:08 PM
    hlbro, mothergoose hasn't been on here since early November, so I think she got her answers and that was it.

    Sometimes misunderstandings occur, it is unfortunate, because the poster has not given all the information to receive a good answer. I think eventually all was sorted out, so the negativity you were referring to was settled between the posters and mothergoose and there were, eventually, no bad feelings. Maybe you didn't read all the answers and replies to find this out.
    mothergoose's Avatar
    mothergoose Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #14

    Jan 28, 2008, 08:41 AM
    I haven't been here for ages as my friend's situation has not moved on significantly. We were fact gathering back then. Now we are waiting for the legal system to grind into gear. Which seems to be taking forever.
    In order to find out how the passport was renewed, the child has to attend the American embassy in person with his mother and with his birth cert. The father has the birth cert and won't hand it over, so the mother has to apply for a new one in order to start the process. So that has still not been clarified as, in the greater scheme of things, it's the least of her worries.
    Goes to show how careful you should be when choosing whom you marry in the first place! Divorce can be such a nasty and destructive thing.

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