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    chiquita_bandita's Avatar
    chiquita_bandita Posts: 44, Reputation: 8
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    #1

    Nov 13, 2007, 02:12 PM
    Morphine immunity?
    I was wondering about morphine. Is it possible for a person to be "immune" to it's effects? I ask because I was in a car accident a long time ago and was given morphine in the ambulance and it had no effect pain-wise, nor did it get me "high" like I had understood it should (I know people use it to get high and the nurse said it would make me feel funny). Once again, I was in the hospital recently for a serious medical condition and was given morphine, and still no effect whatsoever. I felt it go through my veins when first administered through IV, but other than that, nothing at all.

    I have a surgery coming up and really need to know, as I'm scared to death they'll use morphine or something just like it and I'll be in horrible pain!!
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #2

    Nov 13, 2007, 02:31 PM
    Opiates are funny. There is no one toxic level and there is no one dose that relieves x amount of pain. Opiates typically cause respiratory depression in high dosages.

    If you have been on pain medication for a long time, you may loose sensitivity to pain medications.

    You should bring this sensitivity up to your doctor.

    I've talked to a number of people and they don't like the drug.
    J_9's Avatar
    J_9 Posts: 40,298, Reputation: 5646
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    #3

    Nov 13, 2007, 07:19 PM
    I wouldn't call it an immunity, but it may not be effective on you. I cannot take morphine for the same reasons, I have to use dilaudid for pain relief after surgery.

    When you have your surgery you need to let the surgeon, anesthesiologist, as well as the nurse know that it is not effective for you.
    chiquita_bandita's Avatar
    chiquita_bandita Posts: 44, Reputation: 8
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    #4

    Nov 13, 2007, 10:11 PM
    Interesting.

    I thought I had heard about an enzyme that had to be present in the liver in order to process morphine... but I think it was referring to how the body converts things like codiene into morphine. This was a long time ago and I wasn't really paying attention, so I could be way wrong. I can't seem to find that specific information anywhere on the 'net (but I'm not the best searcher! ).


    Anyway, codiene seems to make me ill and hydrocodone works for me for milder pain relief. The only real heavy painkiller I've had that truly works was Fentanyl. I had Nubane and it was the same outcome as morphine.

    But if the body converts codiene (or similar) into morphine (right?) and that seems to work for me, how come straight morphine doesn't work? It just mystifies me!

    Also, I'm a little nervous about being perceived as bossy or telling the surgeon and his team what to do! I don't want to be thought of as a know it all or a pain in the , you know what I mean? Is it really OK to request certain painkillers? I don't want to piss off the Dr and nurses! I try to be polite and quiet, as I know they probably have a lot of stress and don't need an irritating patient. Basically I try to be considerate! So, is it really OK to make requests, and how exactly should I go about it so as not to seem pushy or a pain in the butt?
    jducati11's Avatar
    jducati11 Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
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    #5

    Mar 14, 2008, 10:29 AM
    There is a natural morphine immunity in about 3-7% of the population. It is common in but not limited to Native Americans. I have this same issue. I have gotten morphine on a couple occasions in the hospital. The third time I was in the hospital for a surgery I told them I was allergic to morphine. They gave me Demerol and I worked like a charm. TELL THEM YOU ARE ALLERGIC TO MORPHINE. It you tell them you won't feel the effects they will think you are a junkie and just have a tolerance. Medical staff personal are very conservative and close-minded when it comes to their work.

    Please you must do me a favor and answer these following question. …Do you yawn a lot compared to other people? When you yawn do tears come to your eyes? Also, do you just feel fatigued a lot of the time? I have these symptoms all the time…Ever since I can remember. I think it is because endorphins almost exactly like morphine structurally. So, not only dose morphine not work in our receptors but also our own endorphins. This is my theory at least, and I was hoping you could shine some light on it. PLEASE JUST ANSWER THESE THREE QUESTIONS. I feel like I am all alone with this condition.
    asking's Avatar
    asking Posts: 2,673, Reputation: 660
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    #6

    May 29, 2008, 03:46 PM
    Hi JDucati,

    Your three symptoms--yawning, tearing, fatigue--do sound like what I get when I am in withdrawal from fentanyl, which I have been on for three years. I am just now getting off it, thank goodness. Your question is fascinating to me. Is is possible for a person to experience mild withdrawal all the time due to having opioid receptors not work somehow? You should write to a molecular biologist who studies such things. I am a biologist, but not an expert in pharmacology or physiology, but I think it's at least possible.
    Good luck,
    Asking
    cybermike's Avatar
    cybermike Posts: 2, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Dec 3, 2008, 04:23 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jducati11 View Post
    There is a natural morphine immunity in about 3-7% of the population. It is common in but not limited to Native Americans.
    Can you provide references for that information? I've searched all over the Internet and never found any information on morphine immunity.

    I will say that both my father and I appear to have a natural opiate immunity in that opiates (morphine, oxycodone, etc) do not alter any level of pain that we experience, regardless of whether it's provided orally or intravenously. He's had back surgery (vertebral fusion), and I've had a couple of surgeries. I'm not sure if it helps, but we've also noted the following:

    - We have a similar lack of reaction to Novocaine; give us as many shots as you want for a filling; we can still feel the drill - badly.

    - Both of us can drink a large amount of alcohol with no significant effect and never a hangover. I very rarely drink (too many empty calories). However, one night out with friends from work, I drank about 17 ounces of vodka (mandarin and pear) in about an hour; other than having a slight "airy head" for the next hour, I was completely without consequence. I actually worked out two hours later.

    - "Laughing gas" has a *significant* analgesic effect. Poke me, punch me, rip off an arm and I won't feel a thing.
    asking's Avatar
    asking Posts: 2,673, Reputation: 660
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    #8

    Dec 3, 2008, 04:34 PM

    Interesting. I think people process drugs in very different ways. Acetominophen/Tylenol has no effect on me or my children. Doesn't relieve pain, won't lower a fever. Advil and aspirin do work for us.

    Not having any reaction to alcohol is a new one to me, especially since you don't drink.
    cybermike's Avatar
    cybermike Posts: 2, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #9

    Dec 4, 2008, 10:49 AM
    A doctor once told my father that what I described has to do with our liver. According to the doctor, opiates are metabolized by the liver like alcohol into smaller substances that actually provide the analgesic properties; and, supposedly, our liver metabolizes them into different compounds that have reduced/no analgesic properties. That might also explain why something like nitrous oxide that's inhaled would not be affected; it's not metabolized by the liver.
    discordianB's Avatar
    discordianB Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
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    #10

    Dec 16, 2008, 03:05 PM
    Thanks to all those above me who've answered here. I'll try not to make this too protracted (ed. Sorry) but as a discordian (among other things) I agree with RAW that the most important variable in all of life's equations is the subject themselves. The viewer, the person, the mindset, the biology and what ever beliefs, or lack there of, must be quantified to see that reality for oneself.

    I'm bipolar, mildly aspergic and OCD. I've had a wild and reckless youth and partied hard on multiple substances for a period of years. I've always found cocaine (off topic, but why stop now eh?) a completely boring, waste of my time and money (bought only 3 times, I turn it down more often than I accept it when offered). Admittedly I've never smoked it (crack or freebase) or injected it. One time I had some pharmaceutical grade stuff that was mind numbingly strong (excuse the pun) and was quite a rush, but still nothing in the league of other mind altering substances that my body (and mind) found more agreeable (listed hierarchically by preference/frequency of use at various stages of my life from about 1996-2003): Cannabis, LSD & psyolocibine (Shrooms), MDMA (ecstasy), amphetamine (speed/base), Ketamin, 2CI, cocaine.

    I have never used opiates consciously (who knows what's in some 'illegal' pills) and have only recently come into contact with them (last 3-4 years).

    From 2003 to the present day I am still a habitual user of strong cannabis.

    Once in a blue moon I will party hard for a weekend or a special occasion but this happens so rarely it is hardly worth mentioning (0-3 times a year if I'm lucky... 2008?. Twice).

    When I was a consistent user (Fri/Sat/Sun... occasional Wed... worse period... for about 2 years) I must truthfully say I never experienced any withdrawal symptoms (based on recent events). Come downs are like hangovers, only sometimes they last a few days, sometimes (if the party/buzz/experience was positive enough) there would be none at all. At my recent Christmas work do I had a three day hangover (I hadn't drunk for nearly two months... should point out now I have never been into alcohol EVER for getting smashed like the majority of my friends do... I like fine wines, good quality spirits/liqour and port... all for taste... mild inebriation... it certainly affects me but sometimes I can be an animal and get away with it). During this period (99-03) I did multiple contracts abroad earning good money without any contact with drugs... except for one very excellent night in Koln :D

    Ok, so now I have a girlfriend of 3 years who I'm effectively marrying in my usual bespoke kind of way (no church or state in my affairs... my own legal document). We have the most amazing 6 year old twin boys whom my whole world revolves around (as well as the love of my life) and we are making plans for more (my bi-polar extremes and natural dislike of children/old people has been overcome/assimilated back into the one and I no longer consider it a sin against "nature/my unborn" to spread it in seed form).

    Hanging in there folks? Well, recently I was in a car/motorbike accident (not my fault and yes I was the dolt on the bike). Nothing broken but I'm currently waiting for an MRI scan for a damaged/torn cruciate ligament to determine my options (just been noticed 6 weeks after). Lots of ancillary pain. Existing back condition. Everything has started flaring up and tomorrow morning I'm going to be straight on the blower to my GP as I am presently in a hell of a lot of pain.

    At the scene of the accident, huffing on the gas helped a bit, but I mean I really had to go for it before it would take any effect.

    In the ambulance the first shot of morphine did nothing, still in plenty of pain. Begged for more, got an extra 5ml, then accused the guy of flushing saline through the cannula (he was impressed I knew his trade and I must stress the only time needles have been in me is at hospital or its equivalent). He assured me he hadn't and when a few minutes later I caught the sick bowel that he'd assigned me as we went round a sharp bend (like some kind of freaking Jedi I must add) he finally twigged that I wasn't bull541ting when I said I was still in a lot of pain and couldn't feel a difference from the morphine. He gave me the rest of what I was safely allowed for that time when we got inside the hospital. It made no difference and I b1tc43ded and moaned for something else that would knock me out. They wouldn't, never mention illicit drugs to ambulance men... as posted above they will immediate distrust 'insider' knowledge. Thankfully my GP is a different story in that respect.

    As a quick reminder, I have never used/abused opiates. The first pain relief that worked was the paracetamol and the ibuprofen (2 hours later.. just before discharge). After 5 days the pain started getting even more intense so I finally went to see my GP (people make this sweeping statement all the time BUT I have got a high pain threshold). They gave me Tramadol (acts like an SSRI). No pain relief, slight buzz/mania but no stronger than a good cup of coffee. Then codeine phosphate. This is actually the only opiate/opioid I've ever used prior to this accident but very rarely as I have only been prescribed it twice in the past for wisdom teeth/migraine pains and those packets lasted over two years because I was being a tight arse. Previously these tablets have been very good during migraines but have not always worked. Same thing goes for my wisdom teeth. The doses/frequency during this time probably could not have caused the high tolerance that would later appear to be there simply because I've taken more ecstasy tablets in one weekend than codeine up to that moment in time.

    After the accident, combined with the paracetamol and ibuprofen, it did help, but not massively. I should point out I was taking the maximum allowed of all three every 4 hours: 1000mg Para, 400mg Ibru, 60mg Phos.

    The two day flu I thought I had, when I stopped suddenly two weeks later because I felt I could cope again, was my first ever withdrawal experience and I must say it was most unpleasant. I weaned myself off it gradually over the next week and it was at this point that I began to question how much good it was doing in the first place. They also gave me Nitrazapam/Mogadon because I was getting no decent sleep and I had no more sick days left to take and had to return to work. Those barbiturates certainly work, I've been uber careful not to get addicted and I still have half the packet prescribed remaining (the diazapam given to me for the first two weeks couldn't get me to sleep, by the time I got the strong stuff things were starting to get better). I stopped taking it a week ago with no problems and have only taken it again the last few days because the pain is really bad and I can't sleep.

    Yesterday, very frustrated and in pain, I saw my GP and was given oral morphine solution to keep me going until I get my MRI and find out if surgery is needed. I failed to mention, but I'm in a catch 22 situation whereby my chiropractor could alleviate a lot of my symptoms but I'm not physically up to the movements required. I had hoped to visit him with the bottle in hand to do some sedated adjustments but as I suspected, I have an immunity/uber high tolerance to morphine.

    I was told take 2.5ml to begin with and expect to feel drowsy/numb within 5-10 minutes. Me being me, last night I took 5ml and went to bed. I should point out at his point, I'm fooking knackered and gagging for sleep anyway. I didn't feel anything, zip, nadda... absolutely fook all. Still had aches and pains trying to get to sleep. I've used it twice today at work, 2.5ml to be safe... no difference. After the 2nd one I had to get on the floor to do some stretches and I was still in quite a lot of pain.

    I'm sorry to have rambled so much and condensed in, what to some, may seem completely irrelevant. TBH, I've been leeching off the net for years as every incarnation of the 'best' search engine of the time has always served me well and I must ashamedly admit, I don't bother to sign up and post a thank you, well hardly ever.

    So why did I post here? Trust me it wasn't for sympathy, must be my polar world but I am not comfortable around well wishers or compliments. I have to fake it and smile otherwise it makes me look like an arrogant and ungrateful cock piece. No, the reason I post is this:

    When I was a child, I didn't get other children (or adults with their goo-goo ga-ga, one dimensional approach to children). I couldn't fit in. Felt alone, isolated, in my own world. Used to cry/scream/create living hell not to go to school... lasted till I was about 6... then I managed to adapt... to fit in. Now, before philosophy, religion, psychology, drugs... any of those material realities we are drawn to/distracted by... before all of that... I have always gotten very watery eyes when I yawn. The kids at school all use to continue to tease me for saying I'd been crying again... all the time... when the truth was it was just me yawning(I didn't give a 541t cos I knew the truth... aspergic reaction). It still happens now and I have to consciously force the muscles around my tear ducts to constrict so that it doesn't happen as badly when I yawn.

    Protracted? Yes, very. Off topic? Quite often. Relevant? I'm used to seeing things in a cyclic kind of way, that's why I felt inclined to share this moment as this last point is something new and just another part of the equation for me. We are after all, the sum of our parts.

    Thanks for giving me yet another road less traveled to explore.

    Peace x

    Oh and when I speak to my GP about this I shall certainly be mentioning Ketamin, that definitely works for me and I'm going to ask them to check my records from an operation I had a few years ago because I'm pretty certain that's what they injected me with intramusculary afterward, at the time I thought it was morphine... I'm 100000% certain it wasn't that

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