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Delita · Sep 28, 2007, 05:56 AM

I am a single mom, living in Indiana. I have an 8 year old daughter. Her biological father has not seen her since she was 1. After her birth, he requested a paternity test & was then ordered to pay child support. He has not paid for almost 6 years, but he also has not seen her, so I don't really care. The courts recently decided to go after him for the overdue child support and are now garnishing his wages. After this happened, he contacted me telling me he either wants to have visitation with her "because he's paying for it anyway", or he wants to sign over his rights.

From what I have read here, signing over his rights will not end the child support - which is what his goal is. I am fine with not receiving child support, it has never really been paid anyway. My question is, is it possible for him to sign over his rights & both of us agree to terminate child support? Or is this only possible if someone else is willing to adopt my daughter?

I don't know if it's relevant, but my daughter is on Medicaid as a secondary insurance. I am also okay with her being taken off Medicaid if need be, her primary insurance is carried through my work.

Thank you in advance for any help.

macksmom · Sep 28, 2007, 05:57 AM

In order for all rights including child support to be stopped, there has to be someone willing to adopt the child in his place... to take over the financial responsibility of the child.

Delita · Sep 28, 2007, 06:00 AM

As a follow up question - can that person be ANYONE in my life that is willing to? Or does it have to be another man, such as a boyfriend or husband?

macksmom · Sep 28, 2007, 06:03 AM

You will have to check the laws in your area... you could call around and see if any attorney offer free consultations.

I know when my daughters dad finally agreed to sign over his rights I went to my attorney and he said we couldn't do it unless I had someone willing to adopt her. I asked could my mom adopt her in his place... I was told no because then I would have to say I wasn't able to care for my child and sign away my rights to my mother as well... which I wasn't going to do.
If I was married at the time, my husand could have adopted her, but we would have to be married a year before they would even consider that either.

Is there a visitation order set?

Delita · Sep 28, 2007, 06:08 AM

No. Not yet. I don't have a problem with him seeing her, but I do have a problem with him taking her away for weekends or anything like that. He lives almost 4 hours away. I think it would make my daughter extremely uncomfortable, but it doesn't sound like I could argue the matter if he has never been physically abusive toward her. He basically said "Either let me sign over my rights or else."

There is a court date set for October 26, so I am trying to figure out my options ahead of time. I don't think he realizes that signing over his rights won't do him any good as far as child support is concerned.

ScottGem · Sep 28, 2007, 06:13 AM

This ain't going to happen. I'm going to assume that at some point you received public assistance. Usually the courts will not just decide to go after a deadbeat dad except to repay public assistance funds. Have you been getting what's been taking from his salary in full?

Second, the courts will not allow him to relinquish rights just to get out of paying support. But support and visitation are NOT tied together. I don't think he will be able to get visitation under the circumstances. All you should have to do is point out that he never showed any interest in the child until his wages were garnished. And that he "threatened" you with the visitation card in order to intimidate you into killing the child support.

But if you have no objection to him seeing her, you can at least force it under your terms. Fight against overnites at least until she gets to know him better. Explain to the judge that you are not unwilling, but you think that visits should start as supervised for a few hours and gradually increase to where you AND your daughter will be comfortable with overnites. I can almost guarantee, that if he gets such visitation he won't exercise it for very long.

As for adoption, it would have to be your spouse.

macksmom · Sep 28, 2007, 06:15 AM

Well you said that he has not seen her in like 7 years. As far as visitation goes, no judge in their right mind is going to say "hey you haven't seen this child in 7 years, but go ahead and start taking her for the weekend". My daughters father hadn't seen her in a long time by the time we went to court. The judge ordered a "graduated" visitation schedule to build the father-daughter relationship first, and to ease my daughter into it.

It went something like this...

Her father and I met at a neutral location...

He was allowed to see her once a week for 2 hours and I had to be there, we did that for about a month.

Then he was allowed to see her twice a week for 2 hours and I had to be there, and we did that for about a month.

Then he was allowed to see her once a week for 2 hours I had to be there, and he was allowed to take her for 2 hours alone, and we did that for about a month.

Then he was allowed to take her 2 days a week for 2 hours alone, and we did that for about a month.

Then he was allowed to take her once a week for 6 hours alone, and we did that for about a month.

Etc etc

It went on from there, and eventually fell into the normal "every other weekend" thing.

Delita · Sep 28, 2007, 06:24 AM

This ain't going to happen. I'm going to assume that at some point you received public assistance.

Aside from Medicaid, we do not currently receive public assistance. We did get Food Stamps up until the time my daughter turned 4.

Have you been getting what's been taking from his salary in full?

I don't know. I sporatically get checks in the mail. (usually his tax refund) I think they say a $25 processing fee is deducted, but there are no other details attached to the check.

I feel a little relieved with your responses in regard to visitation. That is honestly my biggest concern.

macksmom · Sep 28, 2007, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

I can almost guarantee, that if he gets such visitation he won't exercise it for very long.

That is very true! Especially since the only reason he mentioned visitation was because he was being forced to pay child support!

Fr_Chuck · Sep 28, 2007, 06:26 AM

I will disagree with the adoption having to be a spouse, this is a state by state issue, and in many states, it only has to be a domestic partner, they may require that you have lived together a number of years as a partner.

You can go back to get visits modified.

ScottGem · Sep 28, 2007, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by Delita

Aside from Medicaid, we do not currently receive public assistance. We did get Food Stamps up until the time my daughter turned 4.

I don't know. I sporatically get checks in the mail. (usually his tax refund) I think they say a $25 processing fee is deducted, but there are no other details attached to the check.

I feel a little relieved with your responses in regard to visitation. That is honestly my biggest concern.

The point is you did at some point get public assistance so Family Services is trying to recoup what the taxpayers paid. Therefore, even if he were to get future support terminated the back support would still be collected. You can try and find out what is taken from him to compare to what you get.

You might consider taking your daughter to a counseolor or therapist to gauge what the affect of visitation would be on her and take that into court.

macksmom · Sep 28, 2007, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by Delita

I feel a little relieved with your responses in regard to visitation. That is honestly my biggest concern.

Well the judge, in my case, ordered a graduated visitation schedule, and my daughter was 15 months old. Her bio father had not seen her in about a year, and in comparison with your case... a year doesn't seem like much, but most judges realize that a year is a LONG time in the eyes of a child.

Her father followed the graduated visitation schedule until the week before she was to spend her first overnight with him. He told me he was refusing to get her anything to sleep in and she would just sleep with him (I think he knew I would refuse to let her go if she didn't have anything to sleep in)... and he was right, I refused to let her spend the night and he stopped coming altogether.

It has been about 4 years since he has seen her (she will be 6 this December) and he just got in contact with me about 4 months ago wanting to see her. At this point we are kind of doing it on our own, but I am still present at all visits.
And actually it is a lot easier to handle now that she is older ( I mention this because of the age of your daughter). It's nice to know that they can voice what they need, what they like and don't like, and they can tell you if something is wrong... which of course is not the case with an infant.

But I don't think you have much to worry about, as Scott said, he will most likely not follow through with the visitation, as he was trying to threaten you.

jverner · Oct 4, 2007, 04:44 PM

Ordinarily, "signing over rights" will terminate child support. That's why men (and sometimes women) want to do it. I don't know the specifics of the law in Ohio, but normally, termination of parental rights requires a judge's approval. A judge usually will not terminate rights even if the father does not see the child. Why would a judge want to take away a potential source of financial assistance for the child?

You can agree not to seek child support, but such agreements typically are void as against public policy. Moreover, the courts usually say that a parent has no right to give up child support because it belongs to the child, not the parent.

You can find out more on this subject and about Ohio law (is the father in Ohio too?) at The Child Support Web Child Support Enforcement Information & Resources

s_cianci · Oct 4, 2007, 07:08 PM

It's only possible if someone else is willing to adopt her.

jverner · Oct 4, 2007, 10:08 PM

I beg to differ. If the custodial parent has ample resources, a court very well might permit termination of the parental rights of the noncustodial parent who acquiesces to termination.

ScottGem · Oct 5, 2007, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by jverner

Ordinarily, "signing over rights" will terminate child support. That's why men (and sometimes women) want to do it. I don't know the specifics of the law in Ohio, but normally, termination of parental rights requires a judge's approval. A judge usually will not terminate rights even if the father does not see the child. Why would a judge want to take away a potential source of financial assistance for the child?

The only quibble I have with that is the first sentence. While some areas do terminate responsibilities when they terminate rights, most don't. But the areas that do terminate both, make it extremely hard to terminate either. As you point out, why let the a source of financial assistance off the hook?

Generally, termination of rights is granted only in cases where someone is waiting to adopt or where the parent poses a danger to the child.