Some grout was coming loose in my shower stall, especially around the drain. One tile, when I pressed down, I could see bubbles when there was a bit of water pooling around the tile. I assumed a loose tile or cement was dissolving underneath

I removed the grout and tried to pry the tile off, it wasn't easy, so I gave up in case I broke the tile (didnt have a replacement).

I regrouted the entire showerstall floor, all of the other grout dried (chalky appearance), but the area that was the initial problem, still looks wet (ie. Not like all the other spots). What should I do? Take everything out and try again and this time try to take out the tile to see for moisture contamination (its only one tile - the one right by the drain pipe)

How long ago was the floor laid? How long after the floor was laid, did you wait before using the shower? Is the floor of the shower a mud floor with tile on top? Describe what the area looks like a little more.

The floor was install almost a year ago. We didn't use th shower at all until probably two months afterwards because we have another one in the master bed room (however, that one is having its own problems as well - see post re: shower tile floor coming off).

We liv ein a condo, so I don't think it's mud. I remember seeing cement board or something to that nature and a large black plastic liner at the floor prior to the tiles being stalled.

I added a picture to show the damage but its hard to see it in a 2-d pic.

The grout around the drain is dissolving. When I press on the tile just left to the drain I can see bubbles come up (this is there is a bit of water around the tile - the tile is tilted downwards towards the drain).



The next picture is after I grout. I think the grout dried in the other areas because I just grouted on top of old grout (ie. These were OK areas and I just spread the grout all over the place) and the area where I removed the grout and place new grout, its still grey and soft to the touch. How long should I wait before I place sealer on the grout?

This pic is 6 hours after I wiped the grout clean with a dry cloth.

So the grout was giving out and you regrouted. There is obviously still moisture under the grout. Does this shower get used often at all? The source may be where the lip of the grate covers the drain. There should be a rubber gasket between the PVC and the metal grate. The two are most likely joined by screws. I would recommend a good silicone bead there. In the meantime, the moisture beneath must be released. It will never, ever dry on it's own. You really can't pop the tile? You may have just enough water to give you grout headaches, and not so much adhesive headaches. There may be water under the tile, and trapped between the voids made by the notches left by the trowel when laying the tiles. The water wicks out and shows up in the grout. Maybe? Whatcha think?

I am having a similar issue. We had a shower redone last November, but some of the grout on the floor began flaking/chipping away. We called the tile guy back and he reapplied the grout. It never dried and/or did not dry the same color (it was darker). We are still dealing with problems now. We have had water come out of one of the seams, but not other problem areas. We recently pulled up 4 tiles, but the tiler said he saw no more moisture than he'd normally expect. He redid those tiles yesterday morning, and as of right now, some of the grout is still dark and glistening (and not hard). I think we must have water in the thinset, the water pan, or the mud, and it's all going to have to be redone. Our tiles and grout look very similar to yours, xell. I wish I had answers, but I was glad to see your post here.

When the tiler pulled your tiles and said the amount of water there was what he expected, I would be suspicious. The answer to how much moisture was there, should be: NONE.
All inside corners of your shower should be caulked, with color matching caulk. Silicone. Any good tile store will sell a myriad of color caulk for such applications. Grout alone in the inside corners will never last. Grout has no elastic properties. It will not flex and give. It will instead crack. Especially during settlement. The intersection where the walls meet the floors should be caulked likewise. A grout sealer should be considered for the floor. The drain should be siliconed as well. Clear. Polyseamseal works well, but there are several others on the market. If the grout is the same color grout, and it is darker than it should, than there is moisture underneath. Not rocket science here. It needs to be pulled. It needs to dry thoroughly. If the man pulls the tiles, replaces it and grouts it the same day, and it's not dry still. Well, it wasn't dry to begin with and he had no business proceeding. Pull the tiles and begin again. Patience and persistence, and do what I said above and you will be fine. Pain in the butt, but you will be fine.

Thanks for the input, gary. When the guy pulled the tiles, there wasn't standing water, but the mud base all the way down to the pan wasn't rock hard. Some parts were a bit... gritty. Here is a pic, but I'm not sure you'll be able to see the coloration of the mud. (Apologies in advance if it doesn't work.)
[IMG]http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6aQQ%7C%3Dup6RKKt%3AxxrKUp7BHD7Kofrj%3DQofrj 7t%3DzrRfDUX%3AeQaQxg%3Dr%3F87KR6xqpxQQQnxlJoxoGQx v8uOc5xQQQ0JaPJPanl0qpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXPeQ %7CRup6lQQ%7C/of=50,590,442[/IMG]

No caulking was done originally; he did not until we continuously had the cracking problems. My husband did dig out the grout a number of times, and he went so far as to dry it for weeks, with work lamps on it for heat. The most recent time he did that, it dried pretty close to normal color, but it still wasn't rock hard (the grout). Then, we were finally able to get the tile guy back, and now the bottom right corner in that pic where the tile was redone is very dark and wet feeling. We also sealed it, but I feel it was never dry enough to "work." When the tiles were pulled, the man did leave it for a day to see if moisture was getting in somehow, but it never got wetter.

Do you think we have to pull the tile and dry the mud base, or do we need to start from the ground up (remove mud, etc)? I don't think that digging out the grout alone will work as we let it dry for almost 2 months (one week no water in the house was used as we were out of town) and it was still wet.

Thanks again for your input. I'm very frustrated!

Pull all the tiles from the mud floor, and pull the first course of wall tiles too. See if the mud floor is wet and how wet. Stick it with a screw driver and see how solid it is. If it is solid, you are okay. Check around your drain to see where the water is coming from. As I explained. The key to resolving your problem is process of elimination. If the mud floor is wet, lose it. Start again. Now just so you know, I am not a tile contractor. I am a professional home builder with over fifteen years of homebuilding experience. Now, to a tile contractor that means I know enough to be a pain in his behind, to my clients, I know enough of what to look for, as my name will be on the home they will live in. I am always on the side of my client, and am suspicious of most contractors until I develop a repor.
Investigate the floor, seal the drain, use your caulk, seal your grout. Be patient and continue the process of elimination. This is not rocket science. Think like water is what I tell my service people. You will be fine. Let me know how you are doing.

Gary, thanks again. This Thursday, we're having the entire floor taken up. He's redoing the mud base, and getting new grout to apply (at his cost). I felt enough educated from your posts to tell him I felt it just wasn't right. I wonder if it was never given appropriate time to dry the first time. I am definitely going to speak to him also about caulking the drain, etc, as I know that was not done the first time.

I hope this goes well!

You should be fine. Good luck. Ask me again if I can be of assistance.

Update (and a question!):
The tile was pulled today, and the mud base replaced. The tiler did the base with just concrete instead of concrete and sand mix as he did the first time. He said he did find a bit of moisture where the shower head would drip, although that is not where the grout was not drying. As the mud base is drying now, it's getting small cracks in it. Is that okay? Also, he says that water should not be able to penetrate the concrete as it would've the sand/concrete mix.

Thanks again for your help. It's nice to have an unbiased opinion from someone who knows!

Okay... the tiler replaced the mud floor with concrete, because the concrete would be less permeable. Now, the reason for a mud floor is the ability to tool it. In other words, a sand and portland cement mix, and mixed stiff, has the ability to allow you to slope the floor toward the drain without the possibility of it self leveling. Concrete, which is a combination of portland, sand, aggregate and water will tend to self level if the slump (amount of water content) is too great. A mud floor is much more user friendly. Secondly, if water doesn't make it's way to the sub-base from the surface, it really doesn't matter whether concrete is used or not. It is more likely that the mud floor was poorly mixed or not mixed, or the wrong ratio of material, or the culprit of the water penetration has not been discovered and it's back to square one. The cracking you are seeing are shrink cracks. Concrete cracks and ice cream melts. That's pretty much the way it is. Still not sure at all why he is using concrete, but hey... if it works. If the cracks have displaced enough to fit a nickel into them, have him seal it with concrete caulk. The mastic or thinset he will use will take care of the rest and will take care of any hairline cracks. Check your slope to the drain, make sure the concrete he used wasn't too soupy and it started to level itself. You see, when the concrete dries, it will be a real pain to remove it if you ever have to service that drain. A mud floor is sort of made to be "dug up", if you will. A sound and sturdy substrate that you can work with in the future if need be. I would not be thrilled with the concrete solution. I would prefer the problem be identified and dealt with, or a new mud floor be properly placed instead of dealing with concrete. That's kind of crazy. I have never, ever, ever, replaced a well placed mud floor with concrete of all things. Nor would I. Good luck, I really want to hear what happens.

You know, I guess I misspoke (mistyped a bit). The tiler said he used only the Portland cement, not concrete. Perhaps he said it was more like concrete and that is what stuck in my head. Sorry about that. Anyway, previously it was the Portland cement and sand mixture, now it's just the cement. Does that change anything? (rather, does that make anything more plausible?)

There is a slope to the drain. I am not sure if it's a "correct" amount of slope, but there is some. If I put something in the very corner, it does not roll to the drain, but as you go toward the center, it does begin to slope.

I am not sure what this guy us putting down on your floor. Concrete consists of sand,portland, aggregate and water. We know he is not using concrete. A mud floor consists of sand, portland and water. Actually, water may not even be added if the moisture content in the sand is high enough. Anyway. If he said he was just using portland. Well... mix sand and water and you get.. wet sand. Mix portland and water and you get... paste. I don't know. You may have misunderstood him and you need to trust what he is doing. He may be telling you whatever he feels you need to hear in order to convince you that he is on top of the situation. If this is the case, I would sooo watch every move. The only flat areas of the shower will be parallel with the existing walls at the wall / floor intersection. There should be an obvious line slope from each corner running to the drain. Lay a pencil parallel to the wall on the floor. It should roll to the drain. On each wall. Lay it perpendicular at the same intersection and obviously is doesn't roll. Everything slopes to the drain. Usually, when talking about plumbing slope, I like to see 1/4" per foot. As far as a small shower is concerned, I would like to see the same. I don't except the answer of "I think it'll drain". My plumber knows me better than that. I would prefer the customer to say there is too much slope... which will never happen. Slope is a good thing.
Have you worked with your tiler before? Do you know him? Are you comfortable with him? If so, have him explain every step of the process. Question anything you don't understand. Often times these men enjoy talking about what they do for a living. Believe it or not. Makes them feel as though they know something you don't and they wish to share their knowledge. If he gets squirrely around you, stay on him. Something is amiss. Everything he does should make sense to you. Not a very technical exercise here. Let me know how it goes.