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    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #41

    Feb 3, 2019, 05:15 PM
    the facts are by a significant majority in THIS country,
    Facts are not determined by a majority vote.

    No it's the desperate loonies who hate themselves and everybody else.
    Nonsense. It is, at least in part, a response against the imposition of gay marriage, abortion through nine months of pregnancy, a de facto open borders policy, and the purchasing of votes by an endless welfare program.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #42

    Feb 4, 2019, 05:07 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    Tal you live in a democracy, although Tom wouldn't agree. This is the nature of democracy, control is handed to the few by means of elections to avoid anarchy. Your nation had a choice before them, and like it or not, they chose Trump. Now some of us cannot understand why they would chose such a person, but obviously to continue the same path wasn't the preferred option. When faced with the choice of the devil you know and the devil you don't know some people won't choose the devil you know, but devil you did choose. For two years you have ranted and now the electorate has neutered him

    Our system has flaws and loopholes, easily exploited by politicians of all parties, and elections every two years offers opportunity for course corrects. Yeah, I'm glad we have an opposition to the dufus sycophants, but I'm still holding out for more opposition, or getting this arsehole kicked out completely.


    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #43

    Feb 4, 2019, 05:20 AM
    The great flaw in your system is that all your leaders are not elected at the same time, our Senate also suffers from the same flaw so that government cannot always enact their programs. We however achieve bipartisanship some of the time and we do not suffer the outright obstructionism of the fillabuster. Our senators are strictly time limited in their speeches and this allows the business of government to proceed one way or another. Our cabinet are also elected so they know they must face the electorate and be held to account.

    Opposition for opposition sake does not serve the country well
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #44

    Feb 4, 2019, 05:33 AM
    the facts are by a significant majority in THIS country,


    Facts are not determined by a majority vote.
    Nice try, but my full statement was "
    I think overall I am in the mainstream of what the facts are by a significant majority in THIS country, depending on the subject of course.".


    No it's the desperate loonies who hate themselves and everybody else.


    Nonsense. It is, at least in part, a response against the imposition of gay marriage, abortion through nine months of pregnancy, a de facto open borders policy, and the purchasing of votes by an endless welfare program.

    Buying votes through fear, hate, and LIES is okay though?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #45

    Feb 4, 2019, 04:49 PM
    Buying votes through fear, hate, and LIES is okay though?
    Ask your buddy, Mr. Obama, about that. He did a great job with it. You can also ask the woman you voted for.

    I can tell you (again) what really bothers me about your positions. You say Trump is a dufus and his supporters are sycophants while seeming to believe that all of you who supported Obama and HC are noble, holy, upstanding citizens. It's that double standard that nauseates me. If you ever decide to get honest about that, then your words would have more of a ring of ethical accuracy. Now we have the democrat governor of Virginia advocating for infanticide and practically every democrat in America completely on board with it. On his worst day, Trump has never come close to sinking that low, but I suspect you will never bring it up. I try not think that your silence is due to political opportunism, but it's hard not to. Maybe you will take this chance to prove me wrong.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #46

    Feb 4, 2019, 05:01 PM
    "The greatest tragedy to me isn’t [Trump]. It isn’t that the person supposedly leading our country lacks a single benevolent impulse, that he is impervious to compassion, incapable of nobility, and mortally allergic to simple kindness.

    I know that he is just a mirror, and the greatest tragedy is how many Americans he now represents. ~John Pavlovitz
    Yet another "holier than thouism" by a democrat who no doubt had no problem supporting that noble and benevolent candidate from heaven, Hillary Clinton.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #47

    Feb 4, 2019, 05:55 PM
    JL, I'm a registered Republican (and have told you that in past threads).

    Jeanine Pirro is the one mislabeling it "infanticide." How many interviews has she done with OBs? How many delivery rooms has she been in?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #48

    Feb 4, 2019, 06:29 PM
    JL, I'm a registered Republican (and have told you that in past threads).
    I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the Pavolitz individual.

    Jeanine Pirro is the one mislabeling it "infanticide." How many interviews has she done with OBs? How many delivery rooms has she been in?
    I have no idea what Pirro said. I read the quote myself and drew my own blindingly obvious conclusion. What on earth do you think he meant?

    “If a mother is in labor …the infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and mother.”

    What kind of discussion do you think they would be having? Who was going to win the Super Bowl???
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #49

    Feb 4, 2019, 06:38 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the Pavolitz individual.
    You mean Pavlovitz?

    I have no idea what Pirro said. I read the quote myself and drew my own blindingly obvious conclusion. What on earth do you think he meant?
    Pirro is a she, not a he. On Fox.

    “If a mother is in labor …the infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and mother.”
    Do you have children? If so, were you in the delivery room, or more likely in the case of a non-viable baby, in the operating room?

    What kind of discussion do you think they would be having? Who was going to win the Super Bowl???
    Oh, that disaster yesterday....
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #50

    Feb 4, 2019, 08:17 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    The great flaw in your system is that all your leaders are not elected at the same time, our Senate also suffers from the same flaw so that government cannot always enact their programs. We however achieve bipartisanship some of the time and we do not suffer the outright obstructionism of the fillabuster. Our senators are strictly time limited in their speeches and this allows the business of government to proceed one way or another. Our cabinet are also elected so they know they must face the electorate and be held to account.

    Opposition for opposition sake does not serve the country well
    I like the system that recognizes that both parties need each other to get things done even though there are a few loopholes on party or another can exploit to their advantage. Half the country is nuts anyway so you don't want too many at a time trying to govern.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #51

    Feb 4, 2019, 08:17 PM
    Pirro is a she, not a he. On Fox.
    Read more carefully. The "he" I used was referring to the governor, not Pirro. I know who she is.

    Do you have children? If so, were you in the delivery room, or more likely in the case of a non-viable baby, in the operating room?
    Yes, I have children and I was in the delivery room for both of them. I cannot imagine for one second having the non-chalant attitude about allowing an infant to die that you seem to have. Hopefully I'm wrong about that, and you will set me straight. But we certainly do not just stand by and let those "non-viable" children die. If the child is "non-viable" (a comment made up in your head and not from the governor's comments), then what would there be to discuss? And if the child is indeed "non-viable", then it would have become that way because of an abortion attempt. Read the comments in context.

    It is really sad to see what sure appears to be your unyielding commitment to walk in lockstep with anything said by an extreme left wing democrat. At some point your republican registration needs to become something more than mere words. It is even sadder to see the complete and total refusal of today's women who refuse to so much as lift a finger in defense of unborn children.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #52

    Feb 4, 2019, 08:23 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Ask your buddy, Mr. Obama, about that. He did a great job with it. You can also ask the woman you voted for.

    I can tell you (again) what really bothers me about your positions. You say Trump is a dufus and his supporters are sycophants while seeming to believe that all of you who supported Obama and HC are noble, holy, upstanding citizens. It's that double standard that nauseates me. If you ever decide to get honest about that, then your words would have more of a ring of ethical accuracy. Now we have the democrat governor of Virginia advocating for infanticide and practically every democrat in America completely on board with it. On his worst day, Trump has never come close to sinking that low, but I suspect you will never bring it up. I try not think that your silence is due to political opportunism, but it's hard not to. Maybe you will take this chance to prove me wrong.
    Boy you sure pile on a lot of assumptions but that's no surprise when you have little facts and data but really hard feelings. Maybe stop holding your nose so much would help with that nausea some, but I get that your nose will never be free again as long as the dufus denigrates the white house.

    They are making the dufus account for his inauguration money and about time since his charity and schools were such rip offs.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #53

    Feb 4, 2019, 08:35 PM
    So we just let those "non-viable" children die all the time? If the child is "non-viable" (a comment made up in your head and not from the governor's comments), then what would there be to discuss?
    Be pregnant for six or seven months, throw up, have back pains, discover you can't even climb into the bathtub to take a shower (if you sit in the tub, you can't stand up by yourself), can no longer eat favorite foods -- okay, I'll spare you more of a pregnant woman's travails -- then you and I can talk because I'll know you and I are on the same page.

    Then, at an eighth month exam, your OB tells you your baby is dead or dying or a CT scan reveals the baby is majorly deformed, then what should that pregnant woman do, especially if her own life is in danger? And, psssst, very few women who've made it to the sixth or seventh or eighth month have no intention of getting an abortion "just because." The "because" would have to be life threatening.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #54

    Feb 4, 2019, 08:36 PM
    On his worst day, Trump has never come close to sinking that low, but I suspect you will never bring it up. I try not think that your silence is due to political opportunism, but it's hard not to. Maybe you will take this chance to prove me wrong.
    I read your reply. Turned out, sadly, that I was wrong in hoping you would prove me wrong. Just more verbage about supposed facts and data, but unwilling to be even an ounce critical of this democrat governor. You should try applying the same standard of judgement to all pols that you apply to Trump. Politics, politics, politics.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #55

    Feb 4, 2019, 08:42 PM
    Be pregnant for six or seven months, throw up, have back pains, discover you can't even climb into the bathtub to take a shower (if you sit in the tub, you can't stand up by yourself), can no longer eat favorite foods -- okay, I'll spare you more of a pregnant woman's travails. At an eighth month exam, your OB tells you your baby is dead or dying or a CT scan reveals the baby is majorly deformed, then what should that pregnant woman do, especially if her own life is in danger? And, psssst, very few women who've made it to the sixth or seventh month have no intention of getting an abortion "just because." The "because" would have to be life threatening.
    Wow. Your commitment to the liberal democrat philosophy of abortion at all costs is so stringent that you cannot even address the governor's comments. You have to revert to a long litany of the difficulties of pregnancy. Let me ask you two questions and see if you will answer them.

    If it is OK to abort (kill) a completely viable fetus at eight months because you have discovered it is deformed, then would it be OK to kill the baby a week after delivery for the same reason? If not, then why not?

    Is it OK for a doctor to perform an abortion for any and all reasons in the final trimester when the baby is viable and able to feel pain? If not, then will you stand against the new law in New York and oppose the governor's support of the proposed law in Virginia?

    And please don't go running off a rabbit trail. Just simply give direct answers.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #56

    Feb 4, 2019, 08:52 PM
    If it is OK to abort (kill) a completely viable fetus at eight months because you have discovered it is deformed, then would it be OK to kill the baby a week after delivery for the same reason? If not, then why not?
    Lemme see. You skipped over my question and didn't answer. You first.

    Is it OK for a doctor to perform an abortion for any and all reasons in the final trimester when the baby is viable and able to feel pain?
    Another jump over my question that you refuse to answer. What would YOU do about this baby?

    If not, then will you stand against the new law in New York and oppose the governor's support of the proposed law in Virginia.
    Have you read the NY law?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #57

    Feb 4, 2019, 09:05 PM
    Then, at an eighth month exam, your OB tells you your baby is dead or dying or a CT scan reveals the baby is majorly deformed, then what should that pregnant woman do, especially if her own life is in danger?
    I am happy to answer your question, even though I suspect you will not answer either of mine. At eight months, if the baby is dead, then you have no choice. However, with a live child, and with the only alternative being to kill the baby, you give birth. No one ever said life would be easy, but once pregnant, you have a commitment to life. An abortion at this point does not preserve the mother's life since she still would have to give birth to a dead baby. Unless, of course, you are suggesting the doctor cut the baby into pieces, an idea so grisly that surely a registered republican would recoil in horror at the mere thought.

    OK. Your turn.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #58

    Feb 4, 2019, 09:13 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I read your reply. Turned out, sadly, that I was wrong in hoping you would prove me wrong. Just more verbage about supposed facts and data, but unwilling to be even an ounce critical of this democrat governor. You should try applying the same standard of judgement to all pols that you apply to Trump. Politics, politics, politics.
    From what I read such decisions are between the doctor and the family, was the racially insensitive governor's position and really weird you ONLY comment on the abortion stuff given his calls for resignation over an actions 35 years ago that had nothing to do with abortions. I am against abortions personally and that's my business, but females of means and education have them all the time without anyone's knowledge and that their business. It's the poor females who get the ire of you bible thumpers, yet when the kid arrives you're like a dead beat dad and leave them on their own and berate anybody who thinks they should be helped. HYPOCRISY from the religious crowd.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #59

    Feb 4, 2019, 09:26 PM
    However, with a live child, and with the only alternative being to kill the baby, you give birth. No one ever said life would be easy, but once pregnant, you have a commitment to life.
    So we watch the horribly deformed baby die.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #60

    Feb 4, 2019, 09:58 PM
    An abortion at this point does not preserve the mother's life since she still would have to give birth to a dead baby. Unless, of course, you are suggesting the doctor cut the baby into pieces
    I'm guessing a c-section would be done. Why would the doctor cut up a dead baby? Or even a living baby? That's not how it's done. (Are you reading Stephen King again???)

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